MacVoices #23194: Joe Kissell Takes Control of Your Digital Legacy (1)

Summary

In this episode of MacVoices, Chuck Joyner discusses the critical yet often overlooked topic of managing one's digital legacy with author Joe Kissel. Kissel's book, 'Take Control of Your Digital Legacy,' guides listeners on how to prepare for the handling of their digital assets after death. They delve into the complexities of preserving access to cloud-based services, the policies of tech giants like Apple and Google regarding deceased users, and the importance of planning for the transfer of digital property. The conversation highlights the necessity of addressing digital estate planning to prevent potential issues for loved ones and ensure a smooth transition of online legacies.

Takeaways

• 📚 Joe Kissel discusses the importance of managing your digital legacy, including digital assets that are often overlooked in traditional wills.
• 💾 Digital assets like photographs, emails, and documents stored in the cloud require special attention to ensure the right people can access them after death.
• ⚠️ Companies like Google and Apple have specific policies and tools for handling accounts after death, but these policies can be complex and vary widely.
• 📅 Google allows users to set inactive account managers who can access parts of your data if your account is inactive for a specified period.
• 🔑 Apple offers Legacy Contacts who can access most of your iCloud data upon providing a death certificate and other required documentation.
• 📉 Digital media purchases, such as movies and music, are licensed to the individual and access to these can be lost after death if not managed correctly.
• 📜 To preserve online content like blogs, users can consider downloading local copies or donating data to the Internet Archive for long-term preservation.
• 📽️ Internet Archive can be a more reliable long-term storage option for digital media compared to commercial services like YouTube or Vimeo.
• 🔍 Tools like web crawlers or applications like DevonThink Pro can help download and preserve entire websites or blogs for offline access.
• 🛠️ Ensuring access to digital assets can also provide backup access to personal data in case of account lockouts or other issues while still alive.

Q & A

What is the main topic discussed in this episode of Mac Voices?

The main topic discussed is how to take control of your digital legacy, with guest Joe Kissel providing insights and advice.

Why is taking control of your digital legacy considered important?

It's important because it helps ensure that your digital assets, such as photos, documents, and online accounts, are properly managed and accessible to your loved ones after you pass away.

What are some examples of digital assets mentioned in the discussion?

Examples of digital assets include photographs, emails, documents, Google Docs, Bitcoin, and any files stored in cloud services like iCloud or Dropbox.

What does Joe Kissel say about the emotional aspect of dealing with digital legacy?

Joe acknowledges that dealing with digital legacy is a morbid topic but emphasizes its importance in saving pain for both the individual and their loved ones by ensuring proper management of digital assets.

How does Google handle inactive accounts in relation to digital legacy?

Google has policies in place for inactive accounts where users can set a time period for inactivity after which Google will notify designated contacts and provide them access to specific data categories if the user does not respond.

What is Apple's approach to managing digital accounts after a person has passed away?

Apple allows users to set up Legacy Contacts who can gain access to most of the data in the user's iCloud account after providing a death certificate and other verification, although access to media purchases is immediately revoked.

What should you do if you want to preserve a blog or website after your passing?

Options include downloading a copy of all the data, having someone continue to pay for hosting, or donating the content to the Internet Archive to ensure its preservation.

Why might the Internet Archive be a good option for preserving digital content?

The Internet Archive is trusted for long-term preservation of digital content and can make data publicly accessible, ensuring it remains available even if the original hosting service goes away.

What challenges exist in preserving purchased media such as movies and music?

Purchased media is typically licensed to the individual and not owned outright, so access is often revoked after death according to the terms of service, making it challenging to legally pass on these assets.

What advice does Joe Kissel offer for ensuring access to important data stored in the cloud?

Joe advises setting up mechanisms with cloud service providers to ensure that designated individuals can access important data, and considering backup options for both digital and physical assets to avoid data loss.

Outlines

00:00

📚 Introduction to Digital Legacy Management

The video script begins with an introduction to the topic of digital legacy management, emphasizing its importance despite being an uncomfortable subject. Chuck Joyner hosts the show, 'Mac Voices,' and welcomes Joe Kissel, author of a book on the subject. They discuss the necessity of planning for the management of digital assets after death, including the handling of online accounts, documents, and other digital possessions. Joe highlights the relevance of the topic, given the increasing frequency with which people are confronted with managing digital legacies.

05:03

🔐 Digital Assets and Posthumous Access

This paragraph delves into the complexities of digital asset management after death, focusing on the challenges of ensuring that digital assets like photographs, emails, and documents are accessible to the right people in the future. The conversation touches on the potential issues with cloud storage services, where data may be lost if payment stops or if the service provider deactivates the account upon determining the user's death. Joe Kissel provides insight into the importance of planning for such eventualities and the role of technology companies in facilitating access to deceased users' accounts.

10:05

📝 Policies of Tech Giants on Digital Legacy

The script discusses the policies of major technology companies like Apple, Google, and Microsoft regarding the handling of user accounts after death. Joe Kissel explains the different approaches these companies take, such as Google's inactivity policy and Apple's legacy contact feature. He details the process by which designated individuals can gain access to a deceased user's data, subject to certain limitations and conditions, and the importance of being aware of these policies when planning one's digital legacy.

15:05

🕊️ The Implications of DRM on Digital Purchases

This section addresses the issue of digital rights management (DRM) and its impact on the inheritability of digital purchases, such as music, movies, and TV shows. The script highlights that these purchases are not truly owned by the buyer but are licensed for their lifetime. Joe Kissel discusses the legal constraints against passing on such licensed content and the ethical considerations surrounding the use of DRM removal tools to preserve access to these digital assets posthumously.

20:06

🌐 Preserving Online Presence and Content

The conversation shifts to the preservation of an individual's online presence, such as blogs and videos, and the challenges associated with maintaining these platforms after the creator's death. Joe Kissel suggests various strategies for ensuring the longevity of such content, including downloading local copies, using web crawlers to archive entire websites, and leveraging services like the Internet Archive to preserve digital content indefinitely.

25:07

📚 Final Thoughts on Digital Legacy Preservation

In the final paragraph, the focus is on the broader implications of digital legacy management. Joe Kissel emphasizes the importance of considering not just the practical aspects of preserving digital assets but also the emotional value they hold for loved ones. He suggests that while the technicalities of DRM and account access are significant, the primary concern should be on the personal and sentimental value of digital memories and how they can be best passed on to future generations.

Keywords

💡Digital Legacy

Digital Legacy refers to the digital assets, online accounts, and digital footprints that a person leaves behind after their death. In the video, this concept is central as it discusses the importance of managing and planning for what happens to one's digital possessions and accounts post-mortem. The script mentions the need for individuals to take control of their digital legacy to ensure that their wishes are respected and to prevent complications for their loved ones.

💡Estate Planning

Estate planning is the process of organizing and managing one's assets and affairs to be distributed after death. The video touches on estate planning in the context of digital assets, emphasizing that while traditional estate planning may cover physical and financial assets, it often overlooks digital assets, which are increasingly significant in modern life.

💡Cloud Storage

Cloud storage is a service that allows users to store data on remote servers accessed via the internet. The script discusses the implications of storing data in the cloud, such as the potential loss of access to this data if the account is inactive or if the service provider deactivates the account due to non-payment or inactivity.

💡Legacy Contact

A legacy contact is a person designated to manage a deceased person's digital accounts and assets. Apple's approach to handling digital legacy is mentioned in the script, where a legacy contact can access and manage the data of the deceased under certain conditions and after providing proof of death.

💡Inactivity Policy

Inactivity policy refers to the rules set by service providers regarding what happens to user accounts that have been inactive for a certain period. Google's policy is highlighted in the script, where accounts become inactive after a set period of inactivity and can be closed if the user does not respond to notifications, unless otherwise specified by the user.

💡Digital Executor

A digital executor is an individual entrusted with the responsibility of managing a person's digital assets after their death. The script suggests that having a digital executor can be crucial for ensuring that digital assets are handled according to the deceased's wishes, including the uploading of content to platforms like the Internet Archive.

💡Internet Archive

The Internet Archive is a non-profit digital library that offers free access to digital content, including websites, music, and videos. The video script mentions the Internet Archive as a potential solution for preserving digital content, such as videos or written works, indefinitely, beyond the lifespan of the original creator.

💡Digital Rights Management (DRM)

Digital Rights Management, often known as copy protection, is a technology used by companies to restrict the use of digital content to authorized users. The script discusses DRM in the context of media purchases, such as music, TV shows, and movies, which are licensed for use during one's lifetime and cannot be legally passed on after death.

💡Preservation of Data

Preservation of data refers to the act of ensuring that digital information is saved and remains accessible over time. The video emphasizes the importance of data preservation, especially for content that is only available online or in the cloud, and the need for individuals to plan for the long-term accessibility of their digital assets.

💡Automated Account Management

Automated account management involves the use of tools or services to handle digital accounts without direct human intervention. The script touches on the potential risks of automated systems incorrectly determining a person's death, which could lead to the premature closure of accounts and loss of access to digital assets.

💡Personal Data

Personal data encompasses any information that can be used to identify an individual, such as photographs, emails, and documents. The video discusses the importance of planning for the access and management of personal data after death, to ensure that the right people have access to this information when needed.

Highlights

The importance of managing one's digital legacy, including handling digital assets after death.

Introduction of Joe Kissel's book 'Take Control of Your Digital Legacy' as a guide to dealing with this topic.

The challenge of traditional estate planning not covering digital assets like online accounts and data.

The concept of digital assets extending beyond monetary value to personal data like photos and documents.

Concerns about cloud-based data and services that may be lost if subscription payments cease.

The role of technology companies like Apple and Google in handling user data post-mortem.

Google's policy on inactive accounts and the option to set a period of inactivity before account review.

Apple's approach to legacy contacts and the process for accessing a deceased user's iCloud data.

The immediate cessation of access to media purchases from Apple upon confirmation of a user's death.

The potential for technology companies to inadvertently determine a user's death through data analysis.

The legal and practical considerations of passing on licensed digital media and the role of DRM.

The suggestion to focus on preserving personal data over licensed media in digital legacy planning.

Strategies for preserving online content such as blogs and videos, including using the Internet Archive.

The use of web crawlers and download tools to create local copies of websites and blogs.

The ethical and legal implications of removing DRM to pass on digital media after death.

The importance of having a digital executor to manage online accounts and data after the user's passing.

The value of local copies of digital content as a backup to online storage and services.

Encouragement for listeners to secure their digital legacy by following the guidance in Joe Kissel's book.

Transcripts

one of our most important shows ever

Joe Kissel takes control of your digital

Legacy

this is Mac voices

this edition of macvoices is brought to

you by the macvoices slack available to

all patrons of macvoices

sign up today at patreon.com backvoices

welcome to macvoices

this is the talk of the Apple community

and I'm Chuck Joyner

folks today's topic is one that probably

we would all rather not deal with but

it's so so important and so if you hear

a start and you think I don't want to

hear about this please don't uh just

give it some time we're going to try to

have as much fun as we can with it

because of the very nature of it but it

is really really important for you and

for those that you love

Joe Kissel is back this time we are

talking about take control of your

digital Legacy

Joe thanks so much for being here thanks

so much for writing this book because

this is such an important topic and

unfortunately it's one that every single

one of us is going to have to deal with

yes uh hi if it seems like it was here

just last week

um

our our visits might be growing uh more

frequent in the near future uh yeah so

as you were just giving that

introduction I'm like you know come to

think about it a lot of my books are on

topics that people really don't want to

think about people really don't want to

think about backups and passwords and

online privacy and things

and so

a lot of what I think of my role is uh

is

taking those difficult painful things

and saying look

it's okay I've studied this I've

researched it I figured it out I'm Gonna

Hold Your Hand we're gonna we're gonna

just walk through it step by step it's

going to be okay so I think this is

another one of those topics although it

is

a little more explicitly connected with

death so that gives it you know that

extra that extra element but as I always

say as I said the last time we talked

about this six years ago and as I say

almost every time I give a presentation

on this topic this is going to be the

most fun presentation on death you've

heard all year uh so I I do like

yes it's a little morbid but I also try

to put as much of a a positive spin on

and say I'm I'm doing this to save you

pain right I'm doing this to save you

pain and to save your loved ones pain

and I want to make the process as

enjoyable as it can be

Joe it strikes me that it's a lot of us

and I'm I'm going to include myself in

that this is something that we shy away

from we put off we think oh you know

that's in the future and sometimes it's

not and so if you are one of those if

you have a will then good for you

um you've you've you've gone through

that process if you've done if you've

done any estate planning even better for

you but as we as we move to so many

things being online and really so many

things that are not just maybe Financial

or physical assets but our digital

assets that we want to preserve that's

where all the all the the traditional

Avenues kind of fall short and that's

what you're in here filling in for us

exactly I mean a will is great for

describing your wishes for your house

your car your money your tangible assets

most Wills don't say anything or at

least not much about your digital assets

and those can be just as important and

I'm not even just talking about like a

you let's say you own some Bitcoin or

something

well that's kind of a digital asset it's

also kind of a monetary asset it's that

little bit of a gray area in between

there are things like that but even

things like your your photographs your

email your documents

um ensuring that the right people have

access to these in the distant future

can be really really important

but then there's this other whole layer

it's not just like well there's a file

on my computer and I want to make sure

somebody has it yes that's important but

also

a lot of our stuff is stored in the

cloud now a lot of our stuff is stored

only in the cloud like you might

whatever you use Google Docs to compose

a novel I know of people who do this and

so that novel doesn't exist as a file on

your computer it is only in the cloud so

let's imagine you've written this great

work or whatever it is and you die

and your heirs want to publish this

posthumously

but in the meantime Google has figured

out that you're dead and they've like

erased your account or something I mean

that kind of thing Could Happen

um or you know there's some valuable

data that you store in a cloud service

but it's only going to be stored there

as long as you keep paying for it

monthly and you know once your credit

card stops working uh that data goes

away so there are a bunch of

considerations like that that we don't

even think about while we're alive well

of course I'm always going to have

access to iCloud drive I'm going to have

access to Google Docs I'm going to have

access to Dropbox or whatever the thing

is

yeah probably while you are you know of

of sound mind and body but what about

afterwards

so that is just one of the things that

one of the broad categories that this

book helps you get your head around like

okay what what would my spouse kids

whatever do

about my important data where whether

it's stored locally or in the cloud or

wherever how would they get at the stuff

they need and how would I make sure that

I pass on the right things the right

people

you said something there though that I

don't think a lot of us have thought

about if if Google finds out that you're

you've passed

um if Apple finds out that you've passed

is it is it strictly a matter of who's

paying for what account or do they have

policies in place do you know that they

say okay

Joe's gone so we're going to give his

account six months and then it's it's

done

well it's messy in fact so so I wrote I

wrote I wrote this book originally back

in 2017.

has not had a single update in six and a

half years I mean 2017 that was when I

turned 50 and I dyed my hair purple and

that whole thing was happening I can't

believe was that six and a half years

ago holy like I'm I'm old okay I know

I'm not that old but like I think I feel

it's not that I'm old it's more like wow

time is passing quickly but uh it's very

unusual for such a long period of time

to go between updates and uh this was a

topic that I kind of felt like I wrote

it and like I'm I'm probably good like

what's going to change with death over

time this this book can last forever

but then over those six years

I started noticing things one of one of

the things is I've given many many many

presentations on this topic to user

groups they ask me questions and I go oh

huh I hadn't thought about that let me

put that in the next Edition but another

thing that has happened is that big

technology companies most especially

Apple and Google have sort of said you

know our customers are sometimes dying

we should Institute some actual policies

on the one hand and maybe some tools

that can help them on the other hand

so

um I have a whole new chapter on what do

you do about your Apple account your

Google account your Microsoft account

because any of us regardless of what

operating systems we may use might have

any or all of those accounts and they're

they're kind of big they affect a lot of

kinds of data

so everybody has a different story

Google has one approach and

they don't you know Google is not going

to actively try to figure out when

you've died

yes if you stop paying for certain

Services those Services would become

available unavailable but they will

they will keep

accounts open for quite some time but

now they they've they've sort of they've

created policy about inactive accounts

so basically

if your account isn't if you don't even

log in at all for a certain period of

time then app then Google can decide

well either they're dead or they're just

not using it so we're going to send them

some notices and if they don't respond

to the notices we're going to shut them

down but they added on to that

a mechanism whereby you can say okay

this is the amount of time I want you to

wait until you consider my account

inactive and a month before that time

elapses whatever you set maybe it's

three months maybe it's two years

uh please send me a notice to remind me

in case I'm still alive and still

checking my email or phone or whatever

so that I can take some action and if we

get all the way to the end of that time

period and

and I haven't responded to any of those

pings uh please notify the following

people and you give them a list and you

say this is the portion of my Google

data that I want this person to have

access to and this is the portion I want

to have

uh this person have access to so and

there's dozens of categories there's

your email there's your documents

there's your photos there's all kinds of

stuff so that's Google's way of doing it

Apple

it's something a bit different uh they

they spelled out look your your iCloud

account and all of the data associated

with it is valid only while you're alive

again Apple isn't going to go out of

their way to

proactively figure out whether you've

died they will get some clue if you stop

paying for your uh for your additional

storage or whatever

but Apple's thing is all right

you can set up these Legacy contacts who

once you've died the the person on this

list that you've supplied can send us a

copy of your death certificate send us a

copy of their IDE and uh send this code

that we've given them in advance there's

this whole whole process to you know for

for security

and then those designated people will

get access to most of the things in your

Apple ID account they won't get access

to your passwords and there are a couple

of other things they won't get credit

card information things like that but

they will get access for a limited time

to almost all of the data in your iCloud

account

the the tricky part is uh and this is

this is especially true with Apple

when your legacy contacts the designated

people with one of one of those people

says okay you know this person has died

here's their death certificate once

Apple gets the death certificate that

starts a clock ticking all right so at

that moment they they completely erase

that accounts access to any media you've

purchased so if you've purchased music

TV shows movies whatever any kind of

media that you purchase from Apple

that's licensed to you as a living

individual and once Apple knows that

you're dead immediately accessed all

that stuff is cut off

and then there is a period of time

during which your assigned people can

get access to other data

so if you didn't

if if if you if nobody informed Apple

that you had died officially if nobody

sent them a death certificate

then as far as Apple knows you're still

alive

and your heirs could

I mean it would be technically against

the terms of service but there wouldn't

be anything technologically preventing

them from signing in with your

credentials and continuing to watch the

movies and TV shows that you purchase

and that kind of thing

but as soon as Apple knows that you're

dead because someone told them then they

they lock down all that stuff so

depending on your circumstances that

that Legacy contact thing may be a

benefit or it may be a detriment again

as far as I know none of the big

technology companies right now are

actively trying to find out whether

someone has died

but apart from someone explicitly

informing them that you have died

they are kind of Silent as to whether

any other

passive things may happen so if they if

they happen to notice that oh well so

and so signed up for an account they

gave their birth date back in you know

1990 and they said that they're 80 years

old and just you know kind of looking at

the calendar

well I I kind of really doubt that

they're still alive like so there there

could be things like that going on I

don't know I uh I I don't know if they

take action only when they are

officially informed or if they ever kind

of just suss it out but

um in any case the big new chapter of

the book that sort of walks through all

that all that stuff

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it's not hard to imagine as we're

watching

um the the large language models I I

resist saying AI

yeah but uh if somebody does a query

it's not going to be terribly hard to

for a lot of people maybe not everyone

but for a lot of people to be determined

to be

the past because all these databases are

going to be Crossing up and

you know we you and I both know that our

information is not as secure as we would

like it to be our private information

and that would include I guess your

death certificate

well what's even scarier about the large

language models and I have seen many

many examples where some someone some

personality unmastodon for example will

say well I just I just asked you know

chat GPT to give me a biography of

myself all right and and it'll say well

you know so and so was a this that and

the other thing and they died in you

know 2012 and they're like I I really

didn't

so so so so sometimes these these

so-called aisle just this makeup stuff

and who knows what facts they

incorrectly piece together to come up

with that result but they make up stuff

and they claim that people have died

when they have not

and that is the more troubling thing

what if

some technology company

um incorrectly you know somebody

somebody does one of these things or

it's it's it's done in an automated way

and somebody incorrectly comes to the

conclusion that you've died and so your

access to all this kind of stuff is

blocked well I mean you know spoiler it

turns out that if you do the stuff in my

book it's not just for your errors after

you've died I mean it is but also it can

give you backup access to your own stuff

if you're somehow cut off so there's

that

yeah

well that's obviously a good thing

um yeah

Joe one other thing I don't want to take

us too far down a rabbit hole here but

but I think it's important to mention

um what you said about the the purchases

you've made through let's just say the

Apple Store that those are really not

purchases exactly they're licensed to

you and if you go away access to those

goes away and that's within the terms

that you agree to whether you knew it or

not when you made the purchases

so is there a way to and I want to be

real careful here because I don't want

to encourage encourage anything that is

not

legal or proper but is there any way to

protect ourselves for that if if I've

spent if I spend two thousand dollars on

movies I'd kind of like to be able to

have the option maybe to pass those on

have I just completely given up that

right already or is there a way for me

to download those and protect myself

well you know

uh the way I sometimes put this when I'm

talking to user groups is

big technology companies

enforce their licenses by way of DRM

digital Rights Management popularly

known or unpopularly known as copy

protection now I will parenthetically

say that take control books does not use

copy protection so you can pass on our

books forever but uh but and an apple uh

Apple used to use DRM for

tracks purchased from the iTunes Store

now this is totally different from I

from Apple music but they stopped

applying DRM to music tracks purchased

from the iTunes Store that's largely

irrelevant today anyway because because

of Apple music but

still is the case for most of the books

you buy from Apple Books also books you

buy from Amazon through your Kindle and

so forth and of course always always

true of TV shows and movies that you

purchase from Apple again not not ones

that you've just rented or streamed over

Apple TV Plus or something like that but

uh ones you've actually bought you

haven't really bought them you've

licensed them so what I what I say is

that the the letter of the law

and I do generally like to be a law

buying law-abiding citizen the letter of

the law is that it's it's licensed to

you you agreed to that it's for the

duration of your life and no longer and

it is not an asset that you actually own

you do not have the legal right to pass

it on now I have heard

that there exists out in the world

methods by which a person could remove

DRM

and I certainly wouldn't know anything

about that from personal experience but

I imagine if someone were interested in

learning about such

legally dubious technologies that a web

search might produce information for

them and that's all I'm going to say

okay that's fair because yeah I asked

the question how do we legally

reasonably do it and so if you if you're

willing to step outside that then

you you run a lot of risks

it also might benefit and have some

rewards so but that's that's got now to

you individually

again I would not would not encourage

illegal activity

but

I will just state that if you were to

undergo some illegal process

in order to

you know give something to someone else

and later that were discovered well if

you were the perpetrator you're already

dead so it would be it'd be rather

tricky to prosecute you

so I mean you you can factor that into

your thinking if you like on the other

hand I gotta say and this is

you know I I've gotten a lot of feedback

on this book from a lot of people

including people who like are

professional archivists and historians

and things like that

and one of the comments I got was like

look Joe like I get what you're saying

about the media but

think about this differently when when

you have died your loved ones are going

to care about

their memories of you

they're going to care about pictures of

you with them they're going to carry

care about personal stuff

they're not going to care what you spent

money on while you're alive and and and

can they still watch that movie that you

bought 10 years ago

I mean somebody might okay but but

that's

that might might seem like a big thing

on your list because you've invested

this money in this media for yourself

but in all probability your family your

errors whatever aren't really going to

Care much about that

they don't care what what the Lost

investment might be What Might Have Been

because they lost you

so the the advice that I got from people

was like okay yeah you can mention that

but really

downplay it because that is that is the

least of your concern when you are

thinking about how to pass on your data

it's a very fair point that's a very

fair point

okay

wow there's I mean there's so many ways

so many things I want to ask about here

um so let's rock on we got time well

okay so let's take that particular topic

and Riff on it from the other direction

I'll use myself for example I have a lot

of a lot of episodes of Mac voices that

have been recorded now why anyone want

to go back and look at those I don't

know but I'm going to assume that maybe

someone for the sake of this discussion

anyway that someone cares enough about

me that they want to would want to go

back and see something that you know we

published

a long time ago

yeah how do I now there there's the

steps that I've taken

um and we can talk about some of those

later but and there are ways that they

could probably access them still like on

YouTube or Vimeo or whatever well no not

Vimeo because if if I stop paying for

the Vimeo account it goes away YouTube

theoretically is forever theoretically

how do I protect though let's take the

video out let's say I've published a

Blog

um and

I need to keep up the hosting fees or

that blog goes away

is there a way to protect ourselves

there is do you think that should be a

concern of ours

possibly so

I'm actually I'm actually gonna go back

to the video for a second because that's

in a way that's an easier question to

answer

did you know that you can you if you've

heard of the internet archive right

archive.org where uh you can like oh I

went to a web page but the link was

broken because the the company went out

of business or something but can I see

what that web page looked like a year

ago or five years ago yes I got

archive.org and I pop in the URL and

says well here's what that page looked

like when we crawled that at a certain

point so I use this all the time

you can donate data including video to

the internet archive and I I have a link

in my book to a story of uh

someone who had

Who had who done all this writing and

his instructions to his his son or

whatever were on my death

all this all these files that I've

created on on my computer you donate

those to the internet archive they're

going to become public domain and

because they are there they're you know

massive backup system is going to

preserve them for all eternity maybe not

all eternity but

I would trust the internet archive with

my video for longer than I would trust

YouTube

because YouTube is profit driven and if

videos become unprofitable for them at a

certain point they may say yeah let's

just delete that uh there's there's

really not a guarantee that those will

stay alive forever but uh you have a

much you have much better odds

let's say okay you're gonna download

you're gonna have a local copy of all

these videos and you leave instructions

okay after I'm gone

you my digital executor upload all this

stuff to the internet archive and make

sure that it's available to uh to the

public now so that's that's one answer

to that you could of course also

say well I I want to make sure that that

Joe Kissel has a copy of all the what

it's like well over a hundred up I have

no idea like many many I want to make

sure Joe Kissel has a copy of all of the

uh Mac voices that that he and I did

together so somebody bundled those up

and and send them to him or something

like that so you could do that now in

terms of I do mention blogs too and this

is one of those things that like oh I I

don't say enough about this I should I

should really say more so something like

a Blog

you're correct that once those monthly

hosting fees are no longer paid that's

just going to evaporate so there are a

few ways of handling that one is

somebody can download all of the content

whether they save it as PDFs or as local

HTML files or whatever it may be uh they

can they can just say okay well here's

here's a uh a big a PDF of of all the

collected blog posts of this person and

they can just make that available

somebody else could continue to pay for

the hosting

but it's hard

I mean

it's hard to keep a a website of any

kind alive indefinitely because even if

you're using a free service that

theoretically will host it forever

sooner or later that company could go

out of business

so and I and

there was a

there's a site that I used to rely on a

lot because I've written a lot about

backups there is this site that that a a

private citizen not an employee of Apple

had put together about time machine just

going into detailed excruciating

information about every aspect of time

machine and all these great

troubleshooting tips and all this like

you know Arcane information and I would

refer to the site fairly often uh then

this guy died

and

within a short period of time the

website just disappeared now as soon as

I found out that he died I downloaded a

copy of that entire website locally so

that I can still get that app of course

it's very outdated now this was a number

of years ago

but

but that's the kind of thing that people

are going to encounter if you have a

blog or a website or any kind of online

presence that requires ongoing payments

and you would like that information to

remain available to the public

afterwards it's going to be really hard

so either you pass on the responsibility

for the cost and maintenance to somebody

else which could be an option

or you just say well too bad it's no

longer there I've got a local copy that

I can pass on individually to other

people and they can do with it what they

want

you I mean a Blog might be hard to get

into the internet archive it's possible

not as easy as some other kinds of

content

but uh what I would say is at the very

least make sure that your executor has

downloaded a copy of all that data so

that if and when the live version online

goes away

it exists locally such that someone

could do something else with it

okay

is it fair for me to ask

one very specific question since you

gave a very specific example what tool

did you use to download that particular

website what is out there that that I

could point to a particular website and

say I need a copy of that

period

there are a few and this was several

years ago so I don't remember off the

top of the head off the top of my head

which one I used but if I had to guess I

would say was probably Devin thinkpro

because that's an app that I have open

all the time and it does have that

capability of of calling websites and

downloading local copies it was most

likely that okay that yeah that I can

see somebody emailing us and saying you

know hey specifically which one so

um yeah you can you can do a search in

your favorite app store for something

like uh you know a web crawler or a I

don't know what web scraper there are

different terms used for tools that uh

that grab copies of stuff off of website

you know it's one thing to say well I'm

looking at a web page and so I'm just

going to save that as as the HTML Source

I'm going to save that as a PDF or

whatever

that's great for one page but if you

want to follow all the links on that

page

and then download all the pages that

those links are attached to

um you really need a web crawler of some

kind and uh

and it and that that's that's a bit of a

tricky undertaking because

sometimes sites can just be gigantic

they might have thousands hundreds of

thousands of pages I mean like nobody in

the right mind would try to crawl

Apple's website and download a copy of

every single page that would that's that

would be Madness but uh

there there are tools that do that

Joe is back in the next edition of Mac

voices to finish up our conversation

about the latest revision to his book

take control of your digital Legacy and

this is really really important I

strongly encourage you to go to take

controlbooks.com pick up a copy of this

and follow Joe's guidance to help secure

the things that are important to you for

when you're not around

until the next time and as always I'm

Chuck Joyner thanks for watching

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