How BEING HUNGRY Helps You Prevent Disease, LOSE WEIGHT & End Inflammation! | Mike Mutzel
Summary
TLDRIn this health-focused conversation, Mike, a clinical nutrition expert, shares insights on the potential benefits of fasting for mental clarity and cancer prevention. He discusses the impact of fasting on glucose and insulin levels, mTOR pathway regulation, and mitochondrial function. Mike also emphasizes the importance of a positive mindset and the adaptability of the body and mind. The discussion explores the role of diet, exercise, and sleep in overall health and longevity, highlighting the significance of personalized dietary approaches and the influence of circadian rhythms on health.
Takeaways
- 🧠 Mindset Shift: A subtle change in mindset can have a profound impact on health and well-being, regardless of specific health issues.
- 🎓 Expertise in Nutrition: Mike Mutzel, the guest, holds a master's degree in clinical nutrition and specializes in preventing chronic diseases through diet and lifestyle.
- 📚 Education and Resources: Mike has created numerous courses and hosts a respected podcast, 'High Intensity Health', focusing on health-related topics.
- 🔍 Personal Health Journey: Mike's personal health journey includes an elevated tumor biomarker, alpha-fetoprotein, which led him to explore fasting and its potential anti-cancer properties.
- ⏱️ Fasting for Health: Fasting can lower glucose and insulin levels, which may inhibit cancer cell growth, and it also enhances mitochondrial function and autophagy.
- 🧬 Biomarker Monitoring: Regular lab work and monitoring of biomarkers like alpha-fetoprotein can be crucial for early detection and management of health issues.
- 💪 The Power of Exercise: Resistance training and quantifiable exercises can improve mental health by boosting self-confidence and discipline.
- 🌱 Seasonal and Ancestral Eating: Consuming food that is in season and native to one's local or ancestral environment can support a diverse and healthy microbiome.
- 🚫 Avoid Processed Foods: A key recommendation for better health is to eliminate processed foods and focus on whole, natural foods.
- ⏲️ Consistent Eating Schedule: Establishing a regular eating schedule that aligns with circadian rhythms can have positive effects on metabolism and health.
- 💤 Prioritize Sleep: Ensuring adequate sleep is essential for recovery, stress reduction, and overall health, particularly for children who are more susceptible to sleep imbalances.
Q & A
What is the main focus of Mike's work in the field of nutrition?
-Mike focuses on the prevention of chronic diseases through leading-edge science in clinical nutrition. He has created numerous courses and hosts a podcast called 'High Intensity Health'.
What is the significance of the book 'Belly Fat Effect' by Mike?
-The 'Belly Fat Effect' reveals the real secret about how diet, intestinal health, and gut bacteria help in burning fat, which is a crucial aspect of managing weight and overall health.
Why does Mike practice fasting?
-Mike practices fasting not only for its potential health benefits such as mental clarity and enhanced mitochondrial function but also because he has an elevated tumor biomarker called alpha-fetoprotein, which he believes fasting may help manage.
What is the connection between insulin and cancer growth as discussed by Mike?
-Insulin can act as a growth factor for cancer cells, promoting a glycolytic metabolism that allows these cells to thrive on glucose. Additionally, insulin is involved in the activation of mTOR, which fuels pro-growth pathways and could potentially contribute to cancer growth.
How does Mike's personal health journey relate to his professional focus?
-Mike's personal experiences with health issues, including an elevated alpha-fetoprotein level, have led him to deeply understand the importance of a positive mindset, diet, and lifestyle changes in managing health.
What role did fitness play in Mike's life transformation?
-Fitness played a pivotal role in Mike's life by boosting his self-confidence, which in turn helped him excel academically and pursue a career in clinical nutrition.
What are the potential benefits of ketones mentioned by Mike?
-Ketones may offer mental clarity, enhance gene signaling, protect DNA, and affect stress response pathways, which could be beneficial in various health contexts including fasting and travel.
How does Mike view the concept of calorie counting in relation to health?
-Mike is not a fan of calorie counting, as he believes that the quality of calories and their impact on cellular processes, gene expression, and microbiome composition are more important than just the quantity of calories.
What is Mike's perspective on the carnivore diet?
-While initially skeptical, Mike has observed that some people report improvements in their health with a carnivore diet. He suggests that it might be worth trying for those with digestive issues but emphasizes the importance of listening to one's body.
What advice does Mike give for someone looking to improve their health?
-Mike advises prioritizing sleep, eliminating processed foods, eating seasonally and locally sourced foods, and maintaining a consistent eating schedule to support circadian rhythms.
What is Mike's approach to dietary recommendations for longevity?
-Mike suggests avoiding processed foods, consuming locally sourced and seasonal foods, and being consistent with meal timing for better health and longevity.
How does Mike incorporate exercise into his health philosophy?
-Mike believes that exercise is crucial for health as it enhances autophagy, a process that helps break down and rebuild damaged proteins in the body, contributing to recovery and improved physical performance.
What are Mike's thoughts on the role of the microbiome in health?
-Mike considers the microbiome to be a critical factor in health. He suggests that the food we eat not only nourishes us but also our gut bacteria, which in turn affects our overall health and well-being.
What is the significance of mTOR in health and longevity according to Mike?
-mTOR is a critical energy sensor that, when chronically overexpressed, can be linked to premature aging and diseases. Mike is excited about the potential to manipulate mTOR through drugs, exercise, and fasting for health benefits.
How does Mike approach the topic of dietary fiber and the microbiome?
-Mike acknowledges the importance of dietary fiber for the microbiome but also points out that people on meat-only diets are thriving, suggesting that there may be more to learn about the role of fiber and the complexity of the microbiome.
What does Mike suggest as a practical approach to fasting?
-Mike suggests a practical approach to fasting that includes regular short-term fasts, such as a weekly 24-hour fast, and longer fasts a few times a year to potentially enhance longevity.
What is Mike's opinion on the use of pharmaceuticals for health optimization?
-Mike is open to the use of pharmaceuticals like metformin and berberine for health optimization, particularly for their effects on metabolic pathways like mTOR. However, he emphasizes the importance of understanding and managing potential side effects.
Outlines
🧘 Positive Mindset and Health Transformation
The speaker discusses the importance of adopting a positive mindset towards health, emphasizing that the body and mind are malleable. The conversation begins with the guest, Mike, who holds a master's degree in clinical nutrition and shares his expertise in chronic disease prevention. Mike's work in creating health-related courses and hosting a respected podcast called 'High Intensity Health' is highlighted. The discussion shifts to fasting, a topic Mike is passionate about, and its potential anti-cancer properties. The conversation delves into how fasting can lower glucose and insulin levels, which may inhibit cancer cell growth, and the role of insulin in cellular growth through the mTOR pathway. Mike also shares his personal experience with fasting, which he undertakes for reasons beyond weight loss, such as managing a tumor biomarker called alpha-fetoprotein.
🔍 The Journey of Self-Discovery and Health
The speaker recounts a personal health journey that began with an elevated alpha-fetoprotein biomarker, leading to concerns about liver cancer. This health scare prompted a lifestyle change, including a focus on circadian rhythms and a deeper appreciation for life's moments. The narrative explores the concept of functional medicine, which addresses underlying causes of symptoms rather than just treating the symptoms themselves. The speaker also discusses the impact of a disrupted circadian rhythm due to extensive travel and sales work, and how it led to a reevaluation of lifestyle choices. The importance of mindset and self-talk is highlighted, with the speaker sharing a history of negative self-perception and substance use that influenced their journey towards health and fitness.
💪 The Power of Exercise and Mindset Shift
The conversation centers on the transformative power of exercise, not just for physical change but also for boosting self-confidence and mental health. The speaker shares how weightlifting helped overcome insecurities and led to academic success, challenging the stereotype of bodybuilders being 'meatheads.' The discussion emphasizes the importance of resistance training and quantifiable exercise to track improvement and build self-respect. The speaker also touches on the broader application of discipline and effort from the gym to other areas of life, and the benefits of starting the day with a 'small win' to improve overall mindset and productivity.
🧠 Mental Clarity and Fasting: A Personal Experience
The speaker discusses the concept of mental clarity and its association with fasting. They share personal experiences of conducting interviews in a fasted state, attributing enhanced focus and mental sharpness to their fasting regimen. The dialogue explores the biochemical individuality of how people respond to fasting, with the speaker expressing a preference for ketosis due to its potential benefits on gene signaling and DNA protection. The conversation also delves into the idea of ketones as a source of mental clarity, with the speaker hypothesizing that the presence of ketones, rather than the absence of food, contributes to this mental state.
🍽 The Debate Over Ketosis and Caloric Intake
The conversation takes a critical look at the ketogenic diet and the broader debate surrounding caloric intake and health. The speaker challenges the notion that ketosis is 'stupid' and highlights the importance of considering the quality of calories consumed, not just the quantity. They discuss the impact of different macronutrients on cellular health and the potential long-term effects of diets high in trans fats. The dialogue also touches on the importance of considering individual goals and the role of macromolecules and micronutrients in gene expression and microbiome composition.
🌱 The Role of Diet in Microbiome Diversity
The speaker discusses the impact of diet on gut microbiome diversity and overall health. They share insights on how different foods can influence the composition of the microbiome and the potential health implications of these changes. The conversation explores the idea of seasonal eating and the benefits of consuming locally available foods, as well as the potential drawbacks of consuming foods out of season. The speaker also discusses their personal dietary changes and how they have experimented with a carnivore diet, highlighting the need for an open-minded approach to understanding the complex relationship between diet and health.
🥩 The Carnivore Diet and Its Implications
The speaker delves into the carnivore diet, discussing its potential benefits and the scientific community's mixed reactions. They share personal experiences with the diet and its effects on various health markers, such as hemoglobin A1c, iron, ferritin, and cholesterol levels. The conversation explores the idea that the carnivore diet may have a place for individuals with digestive issues or those seeking to experiment with dietary changes. The speaker emphasizes the importance of listening to one's body and considering the impact of diet on sleep, heart rate variability, and overall well-being.
🌙 The Impact of Circadian Rhythms on Health
The conversation focuses on the importance of circadian rhythms and their influence on health, particularly in relation to diet and fasting. The speaker discusses the impact of meal timing on the expression of mTOR, a key energy sensor in the body, and how consistency in eating windows can positively affect health. They also touch on the role of sleep in metabolic repair and the importance of creating a sleep-friendly environment. The speaker encourages listeners to prioritize sleep and maintain a consistent eating schedule for optimal health.
🛌 Prioritizing Sleep for Longevity and Health
In the final paragraph, the speaker underscores the critical role of sleep in maintaining health and promoting longevity. They discuss the detrimental effects of sleep deprivation and the importance of establishing a sleep routine that supports the body's natural repair processes. The speaker also highlights the impact of screen time and social media on sleep quality and encourages creating a sleep environment that is conducive to restorative rest. The conversation concludes with a reminder to prioritize sleep as a key component of a healthy lifestyle.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡mindset shift
💡fasting
💡ketosis
💡mTOR
💡autophagy
💡circadian rhythm
💡microbiome
💡inflammation
💡metformin
💡berberine
💡longevity
Highlights
The importance of mindset shift for health, especially when dealing with non-weight or blood sugar issues.
Mike Mutzel's background with a master's degree in clinical nutrition and his work in preventing chronic diseases.
Discussion on the benefits of fasting for mental clarity and its potential anti-cancer properties.
The role of glucose and insulin in cancer cell growth and how fasting can affect these levels.
Mechanistic target of rapamycin (mTOR) and its influence on cellular growth in relation to cancer.
Mike's personal experience with an elevated tumor biomarker, alpha-fetoprotein, and his decision to fast.
The impact of circadian rhythm disruption on health and the importance of honoring sleep-wake cycles.
How a mindset shift can lead to positive changes in lifestyle and health.
The connection between physical exercise, self-confidence, and mental health.
The role of diet and lifestyle in managing and improving health conditions.
Insights on the biochemical individuality and how different people respond to fasting differently.
Discussion on the ketogenic diet, its benefits, and the controversy around it.
The potential of ketones to protect DNA and stress response pathways.
The significance of heart rate variability (HRV) as a biomarker for resilience and health.
The role of the microbiome in health and how different diets can affect it.
Thoughts on the carnivore diet and its potential effects on the microbiome and health.
The importance of understanding the impact of food on both our bodies and our gut bacteria.
Mike's final recommendation for the one change people should make for better health: prioritizing sleep.
Transcripts
so it was just a mindset shift and was
really subtle and I think it's important
for people to hear that because you know
I don't have necessarily weight issues I
don't have blood sugar issues most
people you know searching for
health-related topics are trying to lose
body fat trying to balance her blood
sugar but I have other issues that I'm
dealing with and I we need to have a
positive mindset that her body and her
mind are malleable everyone welcome to
health theory
today's guest is Mike muscle he holds a
master's degree in clinical nutrition
and teaches leading-edge science to
healthcare professionals for the
Prevention of chronic disease he's
created roughly twenty courses on
health-related topics as well as hosting
an awesome and widely respected podcast
called high intensity health he's also
the author of belly fat effect the real
secret about how your diet intestinal
health and gut bacteria help you burn
fat and speaking of burning fat we were
just talking before we started rolling
and I wanted to get back to it let's do
it which is your fasting you said that
you don't you you're fasting right now
you've about 24 hours in yeah you said
that if you have time you're gonna go
grab something to eat but ah maybe
you'll just go straight right at home I
find it really hard not knowing where my
fast ends do you is there any sort of
mental component to fasting for you you
know a lot of us have this ball and
chain when it comes to food right we're
just you know we eat at breakfast wheat
lunch and we worry we take up so much of
our mental bandwidth that can be used
for productivity for relationships for
self development but when I do
interviews when I interview other people
or when I'm being interviewed I like to
do it in a fasted state now it I didn't
start doing that it took me a while to
get to the point where my ketone levels
get to a point where I'm not feeling
hypoglycemic and the symptoms of like
low blood sugar affect me but I don't
really worry about is because once your
fasted for me personally I don't start
to get negative symptoms in terms of
sleep issues and maybe constipation or
whatever until day three so I'm cool
going to 36 hours and not knowing am I
going to have food or not so it's just a
way to clear the cobwebs not have to
worry about meal prep one's sundae but
the reason why I do
is actually have a tumor biomarker
that's elevated called alpha-fetoprotein
interesting that's why you started doing
it well that's why I'm fasting probe
more on a more prolonged basis every to
tell you why why do you think that it
and then tell us the exact protocol yeah
give people a little bit of the
background on the potential anti-cancer
properties what you've read I'm super
interested in this Seaton goes crazy as
you want well you know there's a lot of
research people talk about fasting first
of all lowering glucose and insulin and
so obviously there's many different
cancer subtypes and cancer cells
metastasized and they they mutate and
and so forth but a lot of research shows
that cancer cells can utilize glucose
and insulin to thrive so getting rid of
those groves not insulin I've not heard
that so the cancers though can actually
use insulin as what a growth factor is a
growth factor to kind of pivot their
metabolism to a more glycolytic so
they're burning sugar instead of fats
and then we'll get into a toffee in a
minute but insulin is involved in kind
of amplifying mTOR mechanistic target of
rapamycin I know you had Peter or TIA on
a talked at length about this but this
is really the gas pedal for cellular
growth and so it's and I like to just
pause right here and let people know
it's it I described mTOR like a light
switch in your home right it's not good
or bad it's the context that matters
your light switch is great when you want
to find something in the dark but it can
be bad if you're sleeping and someone
turns it on so that's where you know
every time we eats even if it's a vegan
meal or a animal-based meal we're going
to stimulate mTOR so just wanted to
throw that out there it's not good or
bad it just is and it's context but
getting back to your question about
insulin that could be the purported
mechanism through which insulin may
affect cancer growth is through mTOR
activation which just kind of fuels
pro-growth pathways yeah so getting back
to it glucose inhibition or lowering
glucose down and lowering insulin
enhancing mitochondrial function so a
lot of people I'm sure you've talked
about this you know if we envision our
home being a cell our home has different
appliances right we have the
refrigerator the the stovetop the
furnace inside each one of our cells we
have different appliances they're called
organelles so they're little cells
within cells really and our mitochondria
play a key role in helping us burn fat
for fuel helping us
think clearly helping us move our
muscles and it seems that mitochondrial
dysfunction is you know an upstream
event leading to various diseases from
mild cognitive impairment blood sugar
issues and low energy fatigue things
like that but certainly cancer as well
so we got the mitochondrial function and
then for me enhancing esophageal so as I
said I do lab work I've been doing lab
work like you know comprehensive
metabolic panel is twice a year and I
started to have this GI pain and I could
not figure out where it was coming from
and it was just like persistent so after
three months this was back in 2015 I
started to do some research on the
Internet and I'm like you know maybe I
could have cancer maybe I could have
something and I started to look and
since it was in this region I was
looking for gastrointestinal biomarkers
so I measured those and there was this
one test called alpha-fetoprotein which
is high in people to have hepatitis or
hepatocellular carcinoma which is a
metastasis of deliver so I ran it and
the normal range is 0 to 8 and mine was
80 whoa so anytime you have a weird
biomarker just retest because it could
just be part of the lab that's why I
retested it it was 79 and then I was
freaking out like a little girl home so
I'm nervous right you're nervous because
that's indicative of having this liver
cancer exactly okay so because I had
this biomarker I started to kind of
believe that I might have cancer and
then I started like on one hand it was
great because I was more present with my
daughter enjoying the moment putting
down the phone at night things like that
but on the other side I was like I can't
have this mindset that I have something
I and this is common in Western medicine
you have autoimmune disease you have
Hashimoto's so people start saying I
have MS I have this and I think we need
to realize that certainly our body can
have perturbations but it doesn't mean
you're always going to manifest symptoms
of that if you you can the body in the
mind and the diet and lifestyle are so
powerful so well let me ask you an
interesting question so I know you play
in functional medicine a lot one of the
things that I love about functional
medicine is it stopped worrying about
the symptom and get to the underlying
cause do you think your elevation in
protein is AFP yeah okay I keep
forgetting the computer protein AFP is
that is that a symptom of something else
you don't think so but I was living a
lifestyle where I was commuting I was
traveling a lot I was a sales rep and I
was going to Chicago going to managing
territories in Canada so my circadian
rhythm was totally jacked and so it was
a if anything it was an eye-opener that
I mean I've been eating healthy for a
while I mean I got into bodybuilding and
fitness stuff when I was 14 not for good
reasons for insecurities like many of
your guests has talked about you know
but um I was doing a lot of things right
but that's one of the things that I was
not doing my circadian rhythm was all
over the place it was you know always on
Eastern Standard time zone and flying
back and living in airplanes so it was
an aha moment that I mean maybe the
universe God was telling me you need to
change how you live your life and be
present more move more and really honor
your sleep-wake cycles because that
influences our hormones our biology I
mean everything that's interesting so
walk us through how do you then use that
eye opening moment you're taking it at a
much deeper level you're seeing it as an
opportunity you take it obviously very
seriously from a dietary protocol you
now kicking in the fasting what are some
other things you've done too and I like
the way you say honor your sleep-wake
cycles I'm taking this like spirituality
kind of vibe there's a lot of this stuff
so how do you think about that like how
are you honoring other elements of your
life like maybe the easiest way to ask
it is what other changes have you made
it's a beautiful question myself talk
yeah I used to have a lot of negative
self-talk about you know insecurities
I'm not good at this I suck I mean if we
really want to go down the rabbit hole
you know older sibling exposed me to
drugs and alcohol when I was nine well
yeah so that really and you liked it
or well I took to it yeah so I mean it's
crazy for people listening you know I
got arrested twice before at the age of
15 arrested at 12 and 15 shoplifting and
then for drugs at 15 so the reason why I
bring that up is I felt really dumb
right because you know remember dare
don't do drugs all the stuff in the 80s
you know if you do alcohol before this
or if you
drink we're smoke your brains gonna be
stunted you're gonna have learning
disabilities and so I started to like
believe that stuff and I literally I
remember my freshman year of high school
after I got arrested clean my life up my
dad kicked me out
you're not kick me out back you had me
go to rehab outpatient rehab the best
decision ever changed my life got into
fitness and all that but I really
struggle in school and I really believed
that I was done I was like I'm just not
like these other kids and back then my
brain wasn't because of my prior five
six years it so I had a lot of catching
up to do but that mindset that I'm dumb
and I'm not able to learn I'm not able
to talk with people still lingered with
me and it wasn't until college that I
started to like kind of slowly change it
but this aha moment that what if I do
have cancer made me realize that I can't
hang on to that crap because my time
like we always think we're gonna have
time I may not have the time that I
think I do to impact the world that I
want to and leave a legacy and I was
like dude I can't be nervous for
interviews it gave me nervous for video
I got a create content I got a right I
got a research because I realized it
like if I have 10 years 5 years 3 years
whatever
yeah it's finite like and we get wrapped
up in our insecurities and making money
or doing this but I think you know if we
can find our the best expression of
serving other people that can be an
associate that negative me whatever
everyone has different gifts and I think
that's what's so beautiful about the
earth so it was just a mindset shift and
was really subtle and I think it's born
for people to hear that because you know
I don't have necessarily weight issues I
don't have blood sugar issues most
people you know searching for
health-related topics are trying to lose
body fat trying to balance her blood
sugar but I have other issues that I'm
dealing with and I we need to have a
positive mindset that our body and our
mind are malleable that's been the
biggest change yeah that's super
interesting so I want to go back to that
we're 15 outpatient becomes the best
thing why was that the best thing and
how did it lead to fitness because I
didn't think I had a problem I didn't
think that
my parents didn't understand me or
whatever this is what kids do I mean
come on
you know people smoke pot and drink all
the time you guys probably did it too
and I didn't realize how behind in
school I was I didn't realize how
stunted emotionally I was I didn't
realize that I couldn't effectively
communicate with people like literally
verbally and look people in the eyes all
of that because I hid behind the
substances you know and the little
relationships that I had back then were
all under the influence and so it forced
me to get outside of my comfort zone and
learn new skill sets learn how to
approach women learn how to read and to
relearn how to read alphabet
multiplication tables literally and how
did it get into weightlifting is my
stepmother introduced me to a
chiropractor and he said you know what
to get stronger and everything you need
to to do these compound movements squats
deadlifts presses and they're just like
you look you have potential Mike you
need to just course-correct here and
yeah so that's how I got into it and you
know I realized that if I can change my
body I could probably do the same thing
to my mind the weights give me a lot of
self-confidence and then eventually that
gave me the self-confidence that I can
learn in school and then I did a pre-med
route and everything like that and so
without the weights I don't think I
would have had that and the ability to
change my physique probably would not
have had the self-confidence that I
could learn biology and that I could
actually study and do the MCAT the
medical school aptitude tests and things
like that right so I think a lot of
people look at people that lift weights
and think meathead or you're just doing
this for looks but there's so many so
much carryover mentally that occur and
so that's why I love to have all my
clients do some sort of resistance
training or some exercise that's
quantifiable a lot of people go to the
gym and just do the elliptical for 20
minutes but you can't really quantify if
you're gaining you know if you're
improving or not because you're just
doing time you're looking at heart rate
so if you're gonna do cardio I recommend
training with watts or power if you're
doing yoga it's a little bit easier to
quantify because you can see if you're
getting into a position better you can
hold it for longer and weights and even
CrossFit or powerlifting offer that
feedback so we know for improving yeah
it's
I'm so with you on the notion that if
somebody's struggling mentally the first
thing that I would recommend to them is
to go work out and the reason is the
self respect self belief are I think
some of the biggest things that people
struggle from and sitting there and
looking in the mirror and telling
yourself that you love yourself is it's
probably not a bad start but it's never
gonna get you there because if you don't
do something that you actually respect
you're not going to develop the self
respect working out lifting it's hard
it's difficult you have to sustain
effort but you do see that loop of I did
this thing I stayed focused I was
disciplined I pushed beyond my comfort
zone and I got a result and I look
better which triggers that intrinsic
like when you look better you feel
better as you're getting stronger you
feel better you have that more
confidence but it's fascinating to me
how few people are able to apply that to
the rest of their life
like you'll see a lot of people they
crush it in the gym they obviously
understand that you put in that effort
and you get this tremendous reward but
they don't make the leap of if I can do
it to my body I can do it to my brain
what was the insight there that let you
believe that did it just seem
intuitively true to you or did you read
something somebody say something
sometimes we beat ourselves up and we
say to ourselves I'm not fit I never
will be fit I've always been fat I've
always been poor whatever it may be but
like you said these small steps and mark
bell talks about this just putting
points in the scoreboard just getting a
little bit a small win and so I think
some people can really change your
mindset by starting the day off with a
small win I know I can screw my whole
day up if the first thing I do is look
at Instagram or YouTube or something
because then I'm stressed out and I'm
irritated that I didn't do my routine
and and look there's days that I don't
like working out I mean I talk about
working out all the time
there's days that I don't like going to
the gym but you still go and and I
always share there's so many Instagram
those days that I really am dogged hire
and I don't want to go but I go I feel
so much better and so I'd imagine I
don't know this for sure but that Steve
Jobs there was days he didn't want to
show up at work but he did it anyway and
look at the magic jeff bezos many
entrepreneurs many athletes probably the
same and so I think some people are just
their health is in such a state where
they just don't have the energy but they
need to realize that sometimes we you
know how seemingly health people don't
have the energy to but you do it anyway
mmm no that makes sense
I want to go back to where we started
with the fasting so I've never noticed
the mental clarity thing that people
talk a lot about so I think I would have
if I were going from poor diet to
fasting then I think because you're
getting rid of the brain fog that you
can get from especially a high high carb
diet especially if you're getting a lot
of sugar but you said that you like to
do interviews and things in a fasted
State because you're you think you're
clearer sharper faster I do yeah you
know I this is you bring up a great
point it's this biochemical
individuality and I think we hear you
know ketones are great so I need to be
in ketosis to feel great but everyone
operates at a different level
I just find for me personally everything
is easier if you took exile genus
ketones would you get the same mental
clarity is it the lack of something or
the presence of ketones such an awesome
question I think it's the presence of
the ketones personally have you tried
exogenous I have yeah I've noticed that
I mean the jacker ketones right up which
I would love to get back to because a
lot of people are chasing ketones for
fat loss which I don't think is ideal
but for the mental benefits I think the
presence of ketones has a lot of
potential how often do you take them
I only take them when I travel like and
sometimes before bed what did you take
them and you travel for what reason
because I believe that traveling is
stressful on the body in a way that the
ionizing radiation whatever your this
sounds totally woohoo I know but the
Wi-Fi in the airplanes the recycled air
I usually just feel tired more tired
than I normally would considering it's
just like an hour flight or two hour or
whatever so I like to take them before
because part of the reason why ketones
are so exciting to me is how they affect
our gene signaling and protect our DNA
and affect it you know we talk about
ever heard it protects DNA walk yeah
through the through the sirtuin enzymes
and it's a big long fancy word the
histone deacetylase inhibitors HDX
these are common targets for various
chemotherapy drugs the
hot they're upregulated when we fast
wouldn't be exercise and when we're in
ketosis and maybe perhaps when we take
drugs like metformin or rapa myosin so
these are molecular switches that not
only affect our body's preference for
which fuel we utilize glucose ketones
fats etc but they affect their like
affect stress response pathways and
including a toff adji and and others so
yeah if you're traveling if you're
sitting if you're gonna be in a
stressful environment if your occupation
this is a big one for a lot of people
working at a hair salon or if they're
cleaning homes for example cleaning
apartment complexes whatever exposed to
chemicals I think ketones offer a lot of
benefit in that regard
because you're helping the stress
response pathways that's so interesting
I've never heard about this before so
you're saying if I'm in a diet induced
or fast induced ketogenic state am i up
I'm up regulating the things that the
Excite that stress pathway or is it that
being in a ketogenic state is sort of a
rest and digest parasympathetic place
yeah that's a deep that's a Neve
question we could get into it so a lot
of because it's counterintuitive because
right now if you look at my stress
response hormones I'm twenty four twenty
five hours into a fast my adrenaline
mine or drone when my cortisol are
significantly probably higher compared
to if I just worth eating a normal day
right so logic would suggest that
fasting is stressful but what we see
that's the hormonal side of the stress
response and then we have the autonomic
kind of central nervous system side of
the stress response what we see is
parasympathetic tone and heart rate
variability which is HRV a lot of people
you measure it with your ring that you
know these are or ring this is a proxy
of our autonomic nervous system and that
increases in in favoring more of
resilience so my heart rate variability
is going to go up in a fast correct
interesting yeah it's a wonderful I mean
I think that's the best biomarker people
should use and look if you're brand new
to this and you fast it might decrease
transiently but over time it's going to
improve so like if I don't
need anything tonight when I wake up my
heart rate variability over the evening
time and first morning will be
significantly higher compared to if I
had were to have had two meals per day
and so I think that's a good biomarker
and then you know because there's so
many people that say well it's just
about energy balance calories in
calories out and there's really
intelligent people that speak to that
and I could agree that you can get
results doing that bodybuilders do that
define results short-term body
composition changes may be at the
expense of slowing down your resting
metabolic rate because if we think about
what our resting metabolic rate in Mirat
metabolism is adrenaline noradrenaline
thyroid hormone and dieting prolong
calorie restriction tanks that and so I
think if people again I'm not a fan of
calorie counting by the way but I just
throw it out there because you know
there's some reasonably smart people
that think that ketosis is stupid it's
all about energy balance why do they
think ketosis is stupid because some of
the controlled feeding studies in
metabolic wards show that there's really
no difference in terms of fat loss
between energy equated differences in
macronutrients so if you have someone
that's eating three let's just make it
simple a thousand calories a day yeah
they're a small person and all of that
is maybe it's on a high carb diet
thousand calories a day from a high fat
low carb diet ketogenic diet in two
weeks in a metabolic award study maybe
there's not much difference in fat loss
so they say see you guys this it doesn't
matter it's just energy and energy out
and yeah I'm not really totally
concerned about fat loss is the best
proxy of health number one number two
these are short duration studies in a
controlled environment people are not
living their normal life well let's this
this is really interesting to me and I'm
in that wonderfully dangerous place if I
know enough to get myself into trouble
so let's be nice an inflammatory if if
they're just equal Y is ketones stupid
or why is ketogenic stupid because on
get a downside
it's mean either because individuals
will say you're eliminating a major food
group carbohydrates fiber and they'll
say it's restrictive I think it comes
down to trade-off and what are your
goals if I'm trying to optimize
testosterone if I'm trying to put on as
much muscle as possible benchpress
deadlift squat power lift
as much as possible I'm not gonna give a
crap about the ketogenic diet right
because those are short term goals
presumably but wouldn't you still be
really cognizant of what form the
calories come in because I get the the
one thing about the calorie is a calorie
that makes me super tense is your cells
are made of the food that you take in
and so let's just take trans fats as an
example where do the physical structure
of the fat molecule is I'll call it
damaged it's rigid so if you're taking
rigid fat into your cell membranes and
your cells theoretically become more
brittle is that a fair assessment agree
so that's where like that all seems to
break down like I definitively do not
have all the answers in no uncertain
terms I'm ignorant to far more than I'm
not ignorant to I just don't quite
understand the veracity with which
people say you can completely disregard
the constituent parts of the food I'm
not like forget ketogenic so whatever
sure I'm not going to bat for keto or
against it I'm just saying it would seem
to me that there's more than just the
Kalima tree reading of a food item that
we need to take into consider and a
hundred percent agreement with you not
only you know our our cells liver cells
brain cells etc made up of the molecules
that you mentioned the macromolecules
micro molecules etc but different food
and different macromolecules that it for
nutrients in food effect signaling
pathways gene expression microbiome
composition so there's a it's not just
food can't be relegated to you know
carbides carbs fats proteins DNA protein
water we need to look at these other
things so I but they don't talk about
that and so I'm trying to have an open
mind and try to get the perspective of
the calorie counting people because
these are seemingly logic people logic
people logical people PhDs or MDS so I'm
like what is it that I'm missing and
most of the pundits and people promoting
this idea will refer to a doctor Hobbes
I believe is his name at a University of
Kansas Kansas State something in there
where he did a study on himself an end
of one experiment in 2011 I believe the
Twinkie died the Twinkie diet and it
made a lot of yeah
then okay so one dude when I say I love
your approach you you absolutely have to
be open-minded and the last thing I want
to do is be dogmatic because you just
like I'm not interested in being right
I'm interested in having the right
answer this one though this one feels
like a religious argument where it it
would seem that the people that say this
are interested in being right
clearly there's just so much at play it
just seems weird to get like so super
caught up in that you can get lien on a
Twinkie for sure I think you're gonna
have a whole host of other problems it
would seem absolutely and that's why
that study hasn't been replicated and it
speaks to what you were just looting too
I mean yeah you can get lean doing
various things but is being lean the
absence of fat the presence of health
does that equate health we know many
bodybuilders who are very lean six
percent body fat
after a competition they have a
congestive heart failure heart attack or
die so it's not that you know body fat
absolutely can have problems and
challenges and is linked with
inflammation and where your body fat
sits is a big deal but that's where I
think it gives people power because it's
not just about your diet
it's about your sleep your relationships
your stress management you know your
mindset exercise you're kidding rhythms
there's all these things and if you you
know just relegate food to just calories
it you miss all that but it brings back
to what you were saying it's not about
being right you know and I think people
and I've learned this myself I've had to
have an open mind like because I read
negative ketogenic diet studies because
I want to challenge my own beliefs so I
don't I'm not in this echo chamber I
talk about those negative kinetic
studies and when I'm reading it I'm
trying to have remove my bias it's very
hard as human beings our mind is wired
to be very biased we're constantly when
we watch videos like this or read books
we're trying to confirm what we already
believe you know what I mean and so we
need to kind of remove ourselves from
that a little bit and and realize that's
how we're wired and we're set up that
way but it doesn't mean we have to be
that way yeah it's really interesting
so uh-huh there's no question that we
all have that bias and I will definitely
let myself in there but if your
obsession is like for instance if your
obsession is longevity or feeling good
or whatever it's like you can pretty
easily get out of your own way on that
and then just steer by what makes
something feel good or not feel good one
of the things that at least on a
ketogenic diet that I find so
interesting is it changes your
relationship to hunger I can fast for i
intermittent fast every day my averages
call it 20 hours a day so every day I'm
you know I'm fasting roughly 20 hours a
day but when I look at like what the
primary driver for me in terms of
wanting to be open to something is to
have an even better effect so if
somebody said no no if you eat Twinkies
you're gonna feel even better
Oh rad then I will try it one that
sounds a lot more fun and then to you
can see like where you fall in something
but where do you live in terms of diet
are you always keto are you sometimes
keto you've talked about seasonal eating
like how sort of do you structure your
day-to-day living it's an awesome
question I think everyone needs to think
about what their unique goals are so for
me
trying to optimize brain function that's
just my primary goal and then when I
exercise I want to optimize my physical
performance like if I'm gonna do a lot
of volume I will have carbohydrates so I
guess you could call it like a targeted
cyclical ketogenic style diet if I'm
sitting here traveling
yeah I've been sitting all day I'm gonna
go on an airplane in an hour or two
after this you know I don't need carbs
for that I don't need sweet potatoes I
don't need butternut squash so it's
mostly a fasted low-calorie type day so
yeah I mean my approach is just you know
have the carbohydrate commensurate with
the activity so if you're not doing much
activity you probably don't need a lot
of carbs and so when I think about like
managing the microbiome and trying to
get as much diversity I
I will eat things that regard like let's
say that I never worked out I would
still bring in things like berries or
maybe even the occasional piece of fruit
or something just to try to introduce as
much variety as I can I'm talking color
so that we're you know getting
micronutrient variety as well just
making sure that I have a robust
microbiome that has a lot of different
diversity do you think that's [ __ ]
does that make sense
somebody doesn't have an increased need
for carbohydrate is there still a reason
for diversity of microbiome to eat rice
or vegetables or fruits or berries
it's a beautiful question five years ago
I would have said absolutely but that's
and that's why I was hesitant to even
coquito in the first place did a lot of
research into you know how different
foods and overall food diversity affects
diversity here at OU microbiome and so
we know that I thought that was the most
important thing and some research out of
UCLA recently showed that actually
ketones may influence those different
strains Ackerman's emu sena philia fecal
matter and presidency i these are common
strains that are kind of like these
keystone species that influence the
diversity and really when we talk about
when people are chasing and i understand
where you're coming from but so everyone
understands the context why is gut
microbiome diversity healthy it
translates into stability stability in
any ecosystem is resilient right it can
take little small hits how do you over
how do you can circumvent this
practically I think it's unless you have
an autoimmune disease unless you have
severe gastrointestinal dysfunction when
you have a berry or rosemary or ginger I
think it's best to eat what's in season
in your environment do I have a
randomized [ __ ] I live in or in the
environment ancestrally that I came from
I think it's a combination of the two I
think if you can keep in mind your
genetics and context but also your local
environment if we take your microbiome
now and then put you in Africa it's
going to be different absolutely because
the water the bugs are you exposed to
the people you're in contact with so I
but your genes are not going to change
so I think it's it's melding the two I
think you have to the only diet that
humans could eat before the advent of
electricity gas for iteration and so
forth was what was available to them
locally and here we have and I'm not
picking on green juice or whatever but
let's say in January where there's no
vegetables growing in Wisconsin you're
having a celery juice because it's
healthy how healthy really is that
because we know that hibernating animals
for example their microbiome composition
and diversity changes with the season so
is it is it the food is it the seasons
there's
long swear swear there's a lot of
crosstalk between our micro bomb and our
own tissues and so their community
communicating to us and were
communicating to them and so I think
getting back to the practical take away
from this whole conversation is we need
to understand the food that we eat is in
being absorbed by us but it's being
utilized and absorbed by those gut
bacteria as well and we need to as many
of your guests have talked about keep
that in mind because I think that
relationship is fairly important and
studies show that and we know that kids
that get antibiotics and the first year
of life tend to be AB more autoimmune
and allergies and even obesity later and
just not being birth through our
mother's vagina as opposed being
delivered at c-section lack of
breastfeed there's so many different
things but you know is the dearth or the
lack of fiber gonna negate the might
health of the microbiome again five
years ago when I said absolutely now I'm
like all these people are thriving on
meat only diets mmm
you know if we think the microbiome
imbalances are triggering autoimmunity
yet these people are reversing
autoimmunity through a meat only diet
let's talk about that so carnivore diet
pretty interesting are I hear a lot
about people doing beef only which is
interesting and so when my wife first
started having crazy microbiome issues
basically unintentionally she just was
going towards like what makes her feel
okay she gravitated towards a wildly
predominantly beef diet are there people
that have tried it that are saying I
can't do it with beef but I can do it
with chicken or organ meats or like is
there sort of variety in that or is beef
the one that people consider the safest
of the carnivore diets I think that's
where people are leaning at least the
conversations that I had and I'm not an
expert in this space I thought it was
the dumbest thing people could do ever
because I had my head so wrapped around
this whole microbiome story and I
thought how are you gonna get the fiber
how are we get the short chain
fatty-acids all of this but then I I
listened to the comments on my youtube
videos i read direct messages on my
Instagram and I'm just blown away there
these people are lying or they're
telling me the truth and I really
believe them have you tried it
personally yes why I've been doing it
for the past three months and now right
yeah
not only though so that's the thing
where it's a little bit different so so
we do we have backyard chicken so we do
eggs turkey eggs chicken eggs turkey
exactly yeah I think any animal product
is considered karna Buckeye interesting
what blood markers are you watching
sleep sleep scores heart rate
variability body temperature blood
glucose and ketones my hemoglobin a1c
increased by five tenths of a point so
went from freezed which is surprising
honey yeah four point eight to five
point three but everything else mean
iron ferritin increased which I was
probably expecting eating more red meat
things like that and weird it all about
cholesterol no because my triglycerides
are historically low that's the only one
you worry about well I worry about
cholesterol Winn triglycerides and
glucose and liver enzymes are out of
whack so your liver tends to take the
brunt of metabolic burden first it's a
key the meta box is only hub and so if
your liver enzymes start to rise your
glucose is rising or hemoglobin a1c is
rising then and your triglycerides are
increased then I'm I'm more concerned
about what's going on with your LDL
cholesterol and you know and your low
HDL but without that context I'm not
totally worried about it and the thing
that people don't really realize is like
your body can convert protein via
gluconeogenesis to glucose there's
certain cells and tissues red blood
cells the neuron various central nervous
system cells within our brain that need
absolutely unique glucose they can't use
fats or ketones right protein can be
back converted as can liberating stored
body fat the body fat is you know you
have your triglycerides and you know
your triglyceride on top of that is
glycerol and when you liberate that for
free fatty acids to make ketones that
glycerol gets converted to make glucose
so a lot of people think you need to
have carbs to raise glucose for obligate
glucose utilizing cells but that
glycerol backbone gets shunted right
into that cycle yeah it's it's
interesting Tom I don't know what the
solution is for people should they go
carnivore should they not I think if you
have digestive issues it's worth a shot
and it sounds so polarizing
controversial but you know in functional
minutes
we've been talking about this for a
while we you know people like Jeff bland
and Sid Baker Mark Hyman an elimination
diet which was essentially just
basically plain old white rice and lamb
that was it
like that's almost carnivore in the
sense obviously you're if you overdo the
white rice you're gonna negate some of
that but it was really eliminating all
the variables that could affect the
immune system man I'm really interested
in this one that's the kind of thing I
like to eat like if you told me that I
could have hamburger and eggs I'm done
like I don't need anything other than
that and because I don't struggle like I
could eat a very what most people call
boring diet just because the same thing
over and over and over
I'd be very fine with that like you said
five years ago you'd give a very
different answer five years ago I would
have said yes in fact for accidental
period probably of about six months I
was like vegetables are unimportant you
don't need them and I felt like money I
was absolutely fine I would it was it a
true carnivore dad it must been pretty
fun close like it would have been beef
eggs cheese probably some lettuce and
pickles that would sneak in on burgers
occasion but obviously I don't eat the
bun I don't have ketchup or anything
like that so it would have been real
real close yeah I mean so the question
is you know is are you gonna make your
microbiome or brazillian or not people
should try various diets and see what
works for them and I think a lot of
people get stuck in this regimented
thing where and it can backfire on them
- they're carnivore so then when berries
come in season when people might watch
this towards ya know summer blueberries
gonna be in full swing does that mean
you totally avoid blueberries because
there's I believe I'm not with these
people that think plants are bad I think
blueberries the anthocyanidins and the
bears and you know antioxidants have a
lot of benefit to your microbiome and to
your body in general but then when you
start to identify that you're a
carnivore Aikido or you're vegan you
then you close yourself down a little
bit so I think in your case you don't
have any major health issues that I'm
aware of you know that you've talked
about so I would just continue what
you're doing but maybe in the winter
probably the best time to go carnivore
I'm gonna say [ __ ] you and here's I
don't have I have one health issue and
that is I'm dying
so the only real question I care about
and every healthy RepA so die do is how
do I live forever
like if you're sneering about how you
feel which is essentially what I do I
just don't know what its impact is on
longevity if a carnivore diet like if
somebody could tell me no no a thousand
percent if you do a carnivore die you're
gonna live to 150 I'd be all over the
carnivore diet all day every day I
wouldn't even think about it I'd never
touched another [ __ ] blueberry in my
life like I would just eat it
but it's it's that big [ __ ] question
mark about longevity that winds me up
well let me pose this question to how
could a diet be negatively affecting the
longevity if it makes you feel better it
makes you sleep better if it improves
your heart rate variability if it makes
you stronger if it makes you recover
better how could it slow down your
longevity I mean or effect longevity in
a negative way I don't know maybe I'm
not thinking about this through properly
but it doesn't make sense to me hmm
that's interesting this [ __ ] is so
interesting man like yeah look I love
the experimentation I love the open mind
really be looking for new things in fact
to that point what is something that
you're excited about now totally
improving I get it you're not the expert
you're not like putting your your chip
on the roulette wheel but like what's
something that's cutting-edge right now
that's got you really excited you know I
think the ability to manipulate mTOR has
been very excited so we kind of talked
about mTOR scan to gas pedal aren't our
cells to grow and you know one of the
reasons that you fast one of the main
benefits of fasting prolong Lee is
affecting glucose insulin mitochondrial
function that we introduced the show on
but it it drops them toward to the floor
and we know that chronic mTOR
overexpression is linked with premature
aging diseases so I think the ability
through drugs through exercise and
through fasting protocols to manipulate
this critical energy sensor called mTOR
is super fasting so I think you know
right now in 2019 a lot of people are
micro dosing psilocybin and LSD
I personally experiment with that fairly
often I think in two years people are
going to be micro dosing rapamycin
people are gonna be micro dosing verse
mTOR inhibitors to
- like they're like called calorie
restriction mimetics so we're kind of
manipulating the physiologic effect well
I already [ __ ] with rapamycin it's a
very firm you mentioned the other one
I'm blanking on it right now
like metformin at forming yet it's a
nightmare for me I don't I take
berberine interesting so the one thing
like when the camera stopped rolling
yeah the one thing a lot of people are
like yeah I [ __ ] with it is is that
thousand percent I'm talking with
doctors yeah well I'm like alright then
like it's one of those it is only my
fear of the unknown where it's like if
something seems too good to be true it
probably is and I don't know what cuz
they've been giving it to diabetics and
cancer patients for a long time long
time so I don't know what kind of
studies have come out based on that but
if metformin is probably one of the
safest drugs you can take it's actually
very poorly absorbed here's what's
really good so I'm you know study the
microbiome forever I'm very curious
about how these drugs work yeah like
it's only 33 percent or something like
that is absorbed how is it working it's
affecting your microbiome it's affecting
the gut hormones and your bugs so very
safe the only thing you might need to
add more of would be b12 and folate
because it purportedly does affect
methylation and or absorption but that's
very safe drug i I'm not I wouldn't be
ashamed to take say that I take it I
don't I take berberine so I do that 500
milligrams of berberine hydrochloride
precinct they meant to slow mTOR yeah
well it affects a I don't wanna get
complex into the biochemistry but you
have kind of a yin yang you have em
towards growth ampk is breakdown okay
you know ones either good nor bad they
just are berberine in metformin increase
a and piqué and piqué is a switch just
like in for the switch they're different
knobs so it's breaking down what crap
inside ourselves okay so this is a
little bit like a toffee g NP k and mTOR
are the key sailor switches that
ultimately guide toffee g and govern
whether or not we're going to tear down
break down you know a buret proteins
dysfunctional proteins aggregated
proteins not just functional organelles
we kind of talked about how our cells
are like little homes inside our
appliances those appliances become just
and that's where Otto Fei Jie self
digest comes in and so you have a bad
furnace etaf adji and will help to clear
that a bad furnace in your cell would be
a mitochondria Golgi apparatus and a
plasmic reticulum there's all these
different compartments it's even
speculated that the ability to break
down fat and glycogen stored glucose is
a toughie G mediated even recovering
from exercise this is what's so cool so
when we feel sore after workout how do
you think our body recovers from that
it's via etaf G and breaking down those
damaged proteins so that we can rebuild
them so that they're stronger for our
next workout so I like to throw that in
there because when people hear a toff G
they think fasting but that's just one
knob on the citta Fuji wheel exercise
there's a ton of data showing an
exercise enhances the toff G because
you're causing your body to dig deep and
break down glycogen for that workout
yeah that makes sense
alright I'm gonna put you to the test
for a second so hiding behind this
screen door number one is somebody I'm
not going to tell you anything about
them and I can tell you if they're a man
or woman overweight ripped whatever but
you have to tell them how to eat for
longevity and feeling good how should
they eat I would say Sally or Joe look I
don't know what your health issues are I
don't know what you're experiencing but
we're gonna get you off anything that
comes in a box bag or a cans no
processed food no processed food I want
you to go to a farmer that's within a 50
mile radius of you ask them what you can
buy that's in season and and buy the
animal products that you feel
comfortable consuming I don't really
care so much as what you eat and how
much I want you eating at the same time
every day whatever that is so
influencing the circadian rhythm so
there's a lot of new research studies
where they're controlling how many
calories people are in the same amount
of calories but if they force it into a
confined window it changes this mTOR
expression it's not just a defined
window but the same defined window every
day you hit
exactly so if you you're gonna interment
fast great then eat from say no noon to
6:00 or 2 to 8 with it doesn't matter
but just try to be consistent
just like we should try to go to bed at
the same time and wake up at the same
time you know we hear a lot about toxic
blue light well when we eat and food in
general affects our circadian biology we
have molecular clocks in our gut and our
muscle in our brain and our pancreas
everywhere food in trains that clock -
mm-hmm that's really interesting I
haven't heard that before
is there a number of hours before going
to bed that somebody should be cognizant
of having their last meal so eating
earlier is generally better so you don't
and it's tough to be social too because
here we are talking about food but
relationships are so key and you know
you know when you go out to dinner
sometimes you're out to 10 or 11 eating
late I generally advise people to kind
of cut things off by 7:00 p.m. which can
be tough for whatever you know if the
person didn't have any concerns about a
social life what would be the ideal
window I mean me personally I would say
at 10:00 to 4:00 10 a.m. before and it's
controversial to talk about this because
a lot of people are skipping breakfast
and lunch and just having dinner if
that's working for you keep doing it I
don't ever want someone to change what's
working for them just upon research that
I tell them but there's some research
from University of I believe it's
Arkansas one in Alabama as well that
they're looking at ETF which is early
time restricted feeding so if you look
at this umbrella of intermittent fasting
within that or different protocols
alternate day fasting 5 to 16 8 were you
fasting like you fast for 24 basically
yeah 20 hours a day within that is this
time restricted feeding bubble and they
are having subjects eat earlier in the
day so they started eating at 8 and
cutting off at 2:00
now was it and what they showed is there
was a dramatic increase in etaf adji
just by doing that changes in hormones
changes in glucose insulin but we always
think well if a Tophet is good more is
better but if we think in overweight
people their fat cells have higher
levels of Vltava G occurring it's a
compensatory mechanism because if you
were to it sounds weird but if you were
to biopsy someone who's
or billy obese and you look at their fat
tissue there's a lot of necrosis and
like literally tissues are dying there's
a lot of immune cells so if you didn't
know anything about a toff adji and you
looked at adipocytes and obesity you
would think of Tov which is bad because
it's upregulated and so I just want
people to understand in certain cancers
utilize a Tov G upregulation to avert
the immune system to help it
so it's interesting so it's not this
clear some it's good or bad it's
contextualized and tissue specific and
sometimes more is not better so that a
lot of people are doing hey I did a
24-hour fast one let's just roll it out
to 96 hours 72 hours well what are your
goals why are you doing this sometimes
more is not better and when isn't it
better because so if I knew for instance
that fasting 100% would keep you
cancer-free but you have to do let's say
a 14-day fast I would do it I would do
it every year so when it is when is too
much too much you know I think when is
too much is when it affects your sleep
when it affects your recovery and your
muscle performance when you start seeing
negative side effects when is it ideal
when you feel good you know I'm not sure
what the ideal situation is really drew
so when I think okay so now let's make
it real practical for me I'll just be
selfish for a minute so I hate doing a
five-day fast because my productivity
falls through the [ __ ] roof or floor
after 72 hours 72 hours is very doable I
can stay focused I still have energy all
that but the last two days are gnarly
and I start feeling sick and and I'm
just slowing down and I don't have my
energy and I find myself zoning out so
if it isn't advantageous I want to stop
doing it but I know that my motives
aren't pure so I'm gonna need some
compelling evidence here here's my
thought is a toff adji you know is
influenced by circadian rhythms by
epigenetics or whatever just like
exercise why not make it more consistent
and shorter
so every week do a 24-hour fast does
everyone need to do that no but if
you're looking for longevity like you
are and then every quarter do a little
bit of longer one like three days or two
days or whatever right so there's a
little bit more consistency if you I did
the math if you look at the course of a
year you fast every Monday for 24 hours
if you don't do any other prolonged fast
besides that you're fasting for 16
percent of the entire calendar year that
gets you pretty close to that 20 percent
calorie restriction that's well known
and it's a good proxy for longevity
enhancement and least in animals and
other humans without having to really
restrict yourself anything else above
that and Maya's is just bonus so if you
do a three-day fast or four-day fast
every six months that's just icing on
the cake and that can get you closer to
that 20% mmm all right where can people
find you yeah so my website pretty
active on YouTube and Instagram high
intensity health is website Instagram
metabolic undersquare Mike and I have
used your podcast a thousand times and
prepped for this very show so it's been
a lot of fun to have you on here I've
spent a lot of time listening to you
interview people and go really deep on
some awesome topics and then one last
question for you if you were gonna have
people make one change that would have
the biggest impact on their health what
one change would you have to make yeah
prioritize their sleep you know so much
magic happens in sleep and a lot of us
do to our busy lives social media
connections work we're on our phones in
bed we're not really you know
prioritizing sleep like we do in other
areas and I know that catches up to us
later especially in our children and
children are uniquely susceptible to
sleep and balances and now the kids have
phone so we need to make sure to make
wherever we sleep in our home apartment
condo wherever it is that is like a
haven that is forcing you to get that
repair that you need because just living
just thinking just being awake during
the day it creates a metabolic stress
metal ball garbage that you need to
eliminate that only happens when you
sleep so I think that's a huge one all
right Mike thank you thanks so much
putting a lot on yeah absolutely
guys if you haven't already be sure to
subscribe and until next time my
be legendary take care thank you guys so
much for watching and being a part of
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