Dave Smith on Idea that Israeli Leader Netanyahu Propped Up Hamas

Summary

The transcript discusses the complex political dynamics between Israel and Palestine, focusing on the role of Benjamin Netanyahu and the alleged strategy to bolster Hamas to prevent a Palestinian state. It highlights eyewitness accounts of Netanyahu's statements, the influence of the Israeli lobby in the US, and the challenges faced by US presidents in pursuing a two-state solution. The speaker criticizes Netanyahu's manipulation of peace processes and his attempts to involve the US in regional conflicts for Israel's benefit.

Takeaways

• 😯 Israel's strategy to prop up Hamas is suggested as a way to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, according to a quote attributed to Benjamin Netanyahu.
• 🗣️ The quote by Netanyahu was reported by a Jerusalem Post reporter and confirmed by multiple eyewitnesses, although it was not recorded on videotape.
• 📰 Numerous Israeli newspapers, including Haaretz and The Times of Israel, have reported on Israel's support for Hamas, indicating it is not just based on a single quote.
• 💵 Qatar was reportedly sending millions of dollars to Gaza to support the Hamas government, with Israel's knowledge and encouragement.
• 🕊️ Israel has a history of promising a Palestinian state as part of peace agreements, but these promises have not been fulfilled.
• 🤝 The Oslo Accords were a significant step towards peace, with Israel again promising a Palestinian state, but the process has been stalled.
• 💼 Neoconservatives like Richard Perle and David Wurmser advised Netanyahu to break from the peace process and instead focus on agreements with the broader Arab world.
• 🔄 The 'Clean Break' strategy proposed by Perle and Wurmser included regime change in Iraq, which later became a policy under George W. Bush's administration.
• 🤔 There is a significant influence of the Israeli lobby in American politics, which affects U.S. foreign policy and the ongoing support for Israel.
• 🇺🇸 U.S. presidents have consistently sought a two-state solution but have been unable to achieve it despite America's significant financial support for Israel.
• 🎥 Netanyahu has been recorded discussing how he undermined the peace process by inserting 'poison pills' into agreements, showing manipulation of the negotiation process.

Q & A

What was the context of the discussion about Israel's alleged support for Hamas?

The discussion was about whether Israel intentionally supported Hamas as a strategy to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, as it would allow Israel to claim they have no partner for peace.

What is the significance of the quote attributed to Benjamin Netanyahu regarding Hamas?

The quote suggests a strategy to maintain power for Hamas as a means to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, thereby avoiding Israel's obligation to fulfill promises made during peace negotiations.

How was the quote by Benjamin Netanyahu about Hamas first reported?

The quote was first reported by a Jerusalem Post reporter after an eyewitness from Netanyahu's political party, Likud, confirmed it. It was later corroborated by two other individuals present at the meeting.

Why might the lack of a videotape recording of Netanyahu's quote be significant?

The lack of a videotape recording could cast doubt on the authenticity of the quote, as it relies on the accounts of eyewitnesses rather than direct evidence.

What is the 'Clean Break' strategy and how does it relate to Israel's foreign policy?

The 'Clean Break' strategy was a proposal made by Richard Perle and David Wurmser to Benjamin Netanyahu in 1996, suggesting that Israel should seek agreements with the broader Arab world to avoid making concessions to the Palestinians. It influenced Netanyahu's approach to foreign policy.

How did the 'Clean Break' strategy influence U.S. foreign policy decisions?

The strategy's authors later became influential figures in George W. Bush's administration, and their ideas may have contributed to decisions like the invasion of Iraq, which they had advocated for in the 'Clean Break' document.

What role did the Oslo Accords play in the peace process between Israel and Palestine?

The Oslo Accords in the early 1990s were agreements that set the stage for a peace process with the promise of eventually granting Palestinians their own state, marking a significant step towards resolving the conflict.

What was the significance of Yasser Arafat's recognition of Israel's right to exist in 1988?

Yasser Arafat's recognition of Israel's right to exist was a major shift from his previous involvement in terrorism and marked a willingness to compromise, which was essential for the peace process and the Oslo Accords.

How has the Israeli lobby influenced U.S. support for Israel?

The Israeli lobby, along with the support of Evangelical Christians who believe in the religious significance of Israel, has been a significant factor in maintaining strong U.S. support for Israel, even when policies differ from U.S. interests.

What is the controversy surrounding Benjamin Netanyahu's testimony before Congress in 2002?

Netanyahu testified that overthrowing Saddam Hussein would lead to democracy in the region, which some critics argue was misleading given the subsequent instability. He also advocated for preemptive attacks on Iran.

What does the transcript suggest about the relationship between Israel and the U.S. regarding foreign policy decisions?

The transcript suggests that despite U.S. financial support for Israel, there is a complex dynamic where U.S. presidents have struggled to influence Israeli policy, partly due to the influence of the Israeli lobby and domestic political considerations.

Outlines

00:00

🕵️‍♂️ Controversy Over Israel's Support for Hamas

The paragraph discusses a contentious debate about whether Israel's strategy included supporting Hamas to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state. It mentions a quote attributed to Benjamin Netanyahu, suggesting that bolstering Hamas would maintain power and serve as an excuse to avoid creating a Palestinian state. The quote was reportedly made in a closed-door meeting of his political party, Likud, and was later reported by multiple sources, including a Jerusalem Post reporter and confirmed by three eyewitnesses from the party. The paragraph also highlights the broader narrative of Israeli leaders' quotes and actions that align with this strategy, as reported by various Israeli newspapers and international sources, including The New York Times.

05:02

🏛️ Historical Context of Israel-Palestine Peace Process

This paragraph delves into the historical context of the peace process between Israel and Palestine. It starts with the Camp David Accords in 1979, where Israel promised to eventually grant a state to the Palestinians. The Oslo Accords in the early 90s are mentioned, highlighting the peace process steps and the promise of a Palestinian state. The paragraph then discusses Benjamin Netanyahu's rise to power in 1996 and the 'clean break' strategy proposed by Richard Perle and David Wurmser, advocating for a new approach that involves making deals with the broader Arab world, thus avoiding concessions to the Palestinians. The strategy also suggested regime change in Iraq for Israel's security, which later influenced U.S. foreign policy post-9/11.

10:04

🌍 Influence of Lobbying and Foreign Policy on Israel-U.S. Relations

The final paragraph examines the influence of lobbying and foreign policy on the relationship between Israel and the U.S. It touches on the power of the Israeli lobby in shaping U.S. policy, the role of evangelical Christians in supporting Israel for religious reasons, and the difficulty U.S. presidents have faced in achieving a two-state solution despite their intentions. The paragraph also references a video where Netanyahu allegedly boasts about sabotaging the peace process by inserting conditions that only Israel could define, and his advocacy for preemptive attacks on Iraq and Iran, suggesting that Israel has been instrumental in pushing the U.S. into wars that serve its interests.

Keywords

💡Jogan Experience

The term 'Jogan Experience' is likely a reference to a personal or unique perspective on a topic, in this case, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It is used in the script to introduce the speaker's viewpoint and experiences in debates related to the subject.

💡Benjamin Netanyahu

Benjamin Netanyahu is the longest-serving Prime Minister of Israel, mentioned in the script for his alleged strategies and quotes regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. His name comes up in the context of discussions about Israeli policies and their impact on peace negotiations.

💡Hamas

Hamas is a Palestinian Islamic fundamentalist and militant group with political and military wings. In the script, it is discussed in relation to Israeli strategies, suggesting that some Israeli leaders may have supported Hamas to prevent a unified Palestinian state.

💡Two-State Solution

The 'Two-State Solution' refers to the establishment of two sovereign states for Israelis and Palestinians in the region. The script mentions it as a promised outcome of peace negotiations, which has been a point of contention and unfulfilled promise.

💡Neoconservatives

Neoconservatives are a political group that advocates for a more assertive foreign policy, often including military intervention. In the script, they are linked to influential figures who have advised Netanyahu and have been part of the U.S. administration, influencing foreign policy decisions.

💡Clean Break

'Clean Break' is a strategy document that was presented to Netanyahu, advocating a shift in Israeli foreign policy to disengage from the Palestinian peace process and instead focus on building relationships with the broader Arab world. It is mentioned in the script as a significant influence on Israeli policy.

💡Israel Lobby

The 'Israel Lobby' refers to the influence of pro-Israel interest groups on American foreign policy. The script discusses the lobby's power in shaping U.S. support for Israel, despite differing views from U.S. administrations.

💡Camp David Accords

The Camp David Accords were a pair of political agreements signed by Egypt and Israel in 1979, brokered by U.S. President Jimmy Carter. The script refers to these accords as a historical precedent for peace agreements in the region.

💡Oslo Accords

The Oslo Accords were a set of agreements between the government of Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization, intended to establish a path for Palestinian self-governance. The script mentions these accords as a part of the peace process that has been undermined by subsequent actions.

💡Yasser Arafat

Yasser Arafat was a Palestinian political leader and the founder of the Fatah political party. His recognition of Israel and renouncement of terrorism in the late 1980s, as mentioned in the script, were seen as steps towards peace and were part of the lead-up to the Oslo Accords.

💡Evangelical Christians

Evangelical Christians are a significant religious demographic in the U.S. with political influence. The script discusses their support for Israel due to religious beliefs about the end times, which contributes to the unwavering U.S. support for Israel.

Highlights

Discussion about whether Israel's strategy involved propping up Hamas and the controversy surrounding this claim.

The quote attributed to Benjamin Netanyahu suggesting support for Hamas to prevent a Palestinian state.

Netanyahu's quote was reported by a Jerusalem Post reporter and later confirmed by multiple eyewitnesses.

Criticism of Netanyahu's policy to bolster Hamas to maintain power and avoid a two-state solution.

The New York Times report on Israeli intelligence agents facilitating funds to Hamas.

The historical context of the peace process and Israel's promise to give Palestinians a state.

Yasser Arafat's rejection of terrorism and recognition of Israel's right to exist.

The Oslo Accords and the renewed promise from Israel to eventually grant a Palestinian state.

1996 'Clean Break' strategy proposed to Netanyahu advocating for new Israeli foreign policy.

The influence of neoconservatives like Richard Perle and David Wurmser on Israeli policy.

Netanyahu's testimony before Congress in 2002 advocating for the overthrow of Saddam Hussein.

The claim that Israel has been trying to shape its strategic environment by influencing U.S. foreign policy.

The role of the Israeli lobby in American politics and its impact on U.S. support for Israel.

Difficulties faced by U.S. presidents in achieving a two-state solution despite their intentions.

The influence of Evangelical Christians on U.S. policy towards Israel.

Benjamin Netanyahu's candid comments about manipulating the peace process and U.S. officials.

Netanyahu's advocacy for preemptive attacks on Iran, in addition to Iraq.

Criticism of Netanyahu's actions and the unconditional U.S. support for Israel despite policy disagreements.

Transcripts

the jogan experience you said what about

the the didn't Israel like prop up Hamas

wasn't that part of their strategy for a

while and

he I'll give him the benefit of the

doubt and maybe he just doesn't know

about that detail of this as much

because I if not he was kind of being

dishonest but he but maybe he just

wasn't familiar with all of this stuff

but he kind of went you said that and

then he kind of dismissed it by saying

well um there's a quote that's

attributed to Netanyahu but it wasn't on

videotape so like we don't B essentially

being like we don't really know if

Netanyahu said this or not and then just

kind of moved on to the conversation

away from that but I find this I found

this in all of my debates that I've done

on this and I've done like eight debates

on this since the war broke out

everybody on the pro-israeli side does

not want to Grapple with that point

because it really is like a it's a

narrative shattering Point once you

acknowledge it but so right but well but

if it isn't on videotape he has a point

as well well here well let me okay so

here's the deal right so the quote that

he's referring to was a quote by

Benjamin Netanyahu it was something

along the lines of anybody who wants to

thwart the Palestinians having their own

State needs to support propping up Hamas

bolstering Hamas transferring money to

them to maint right so there was a quote

like this Hamas maintains power right so

Hamas maintains power so that they never

we never have to give them a state

because we can look to the International

Community we can look to Liberal Jews in

is Israel and say look we have no

partner for peace they're a crazy

terrorist group so we we never have to

make a deal we don't have to fulfill our

promise that we would give attributed to

him so basically this quote particularly

okay this was at a closed door meeting

with the lud party so this is Benjamin

netanyahu's political party his

far-right party that's in power right

now in Israel so it's true that this was

a closed door meeting and that it's not

on tape um so what happened is as far as

I could tell the the first person who

reported this I believe was uh a a lady

who's a reporter for the uh Jerusalem

Post and then it's been run in a bunch

of other newspapers since then so what

basically what happened is an eyewitness

who was there at the meeting so another

lud party member in Benjamin netanyahu's

political party came and told her that

he said this and then she went and

checked with somebody else who was there

and he also confirmed that like yes

Benjamin anahu said this and then a

third person who was also at the meeting

came out and wrote about it in his book

or wrote about it in another newspaper

article or something like that so you

had three eyewitnesses from within his

own political party who confirmed that

he said this now take that for what it's

worth I think that's reasonably strong

that three eyewitnesses all in his

political party as long as they weren't

trying to get rid of him because you can

get more than three people to say that

Donald Trump was in collusion with

Russia sure so even even say if you

don't trust

them Coleman acted as if that's what the

entire case is built off of which is

just not true at all it's not just this

one Benjamin Netanyahu quote it's dozens

and dozens of quotes from Israeli

leaders all throughout the political

Spectrum there's been reporting on this

done by almost every major Israeli uh

newspaper haret Times of Israel The

Times of Israel on October 8th had a

piece by tall Schneider which was how

Ben L uh excuse me how netanyahu's

support for Hamas just blew up in his

face it it was the next day and because

every even critics like uh ahud Barack

who was the former Prime Minister he's a

labor party he's a Critic of Benjamin

Netanyahu so he was a Critic of this

plan to prop up Hamas but it's totally

uncontroversial that this was their plan

the New York Times uh just ran a piece

um I think it was late last year it

might have been early this year um where

they talked about how two weeks before

October 7th Benjamin Netanyahu sent the

head of the Mad to Cutter because funds

going into Hamas had slowed down and he

sent them in there to make sure the

funds continued it's the case for this

is overwhelming it's not like relying on

one yeah here you

go yeah for years the qari government

had been s am I saying that right is

that I you say it Qatari I think is Kari

government had been sending millions of

dollars a month to Gaza trip money that

helped prop up the Hamas government

there Benjamin presid prime minister

Benjamin nahu Netanyahu of Israel not

only tolerated those payments he had

encouraged them according to times

Israeli intelligence agency agents

rather travel to Goda with a Qatari

official carrying suitcases filled with

cash suitcases like a mafia movie to

disperse money retired Israeli General

schomo Braum describe the logic of

netanyahu's position one effective way

to present a two-state solution is to

divide prevent prevent prevent prevent a

two-state solution is to divide between

the Gaza Strip and the West Bank if the

exist Hamas ruled Gaza then the

Palestinian Authority a compromis com

comprador comprador government is that

you say

it comprador I don't even know what that

is comprador government with a tenuous

hold on the West Bank would be further

weakened this according to Braum would

allow net Yahoo to say I have no partner

and so that's okay so that's essentially

the point there right he can say that he

can say I have no partner for peace

which is the Israeli line that they like

to use so basically okay in

1979 the EGP I and the Israelis met at

Camp David and that's when they worked

out their peace now their peace also

just involved basically that the US

would pay them both off we'd give them

both three billion doar a year in

perpetuity if they stopped going to war

with each other basically um and part of

that was that Israel promised that they

would

eventually give the Palestinians a state

like it was recognized by DC at the time

this Jimmy Carter that like you got to

give them a state because otherwise this

fighting is going to continue on and on

and on forever so they promised that

eventually they would give it to them

this is the yaser Arafat days this is uh

this is before yaser Arafat was like the

guy um but he he was alive but um but

then in the 80s yaser Arafat uh

basically rejected terrorism he had been

uh involved in terrorism before that he

rejected terrorism and he recognized

Israel I think it was in 1988 he

recognized Israel's right to exist under

1967 borders so basically Israel has the

right to exist but but we have the right

to Gaza and the West Bank the ultimate

of compromises from the Palestinian

perspective because you know a lot of

their more hardcore guys are like no all

of this was ours we shouldn't have lost

any of it and now even the original us

partition plan which was rejected by the

Arabs for you know fairly good reasons

um they rejected it because it gave

55% to the Jews and only or 56% to the

Jews and only 44% to the Palestinians

and they were like but we're like 90% of

the population here like or 90% of the

land owners here or whatever and it's

like this doesn't this isn't fair but

now at this point they're talking about

78% versus 22% so they're accepting 22%

and so that's yaser arfett in the in the

late 80s and then this is what set the

stage for the Oslo uh Accords in the

early 90s and this is like famously when

Bill Clinton has um uh Yak Rabin and

yaser Arafat over and they shake hands

and they sign sign these deals and the

the promise again from Israel was that

we're starting the peace process to

eventually give the Palestinians uh

their state this is the process and

there were steps along this process okay

now in

1996 Benjamin Netanyahu becomes prime

minister now the same year in 1996 there

was uh there's this letter you can find

this on the Internet it's called a clean

break a new strategy for securing the

realm and it was written by Richard

Pearl and David wormser and a couple

other uh uh people of course uh Richard

Pearl and David wormser both went on to

be very influential neoconservatives in

the George W Bush Administration so they

write this letter not to President Bill

Clinton and not to Bob Dole who was

running for president on the Republican

ticket that that year they write this

letter to Benjamin Netanyahu the new

prime minister of Israel and basically

if you read it what they say is that

they're like look look you guys are all

caught up in this peace process thing

where you're talking about giving the

Palestinians land we need a clean break

from that strategy and we're going to

have a whole new strategy and what it's

going to involve is you making

agreements with the broader Arab world

so that you don't have to make this

agreement with the Palestinians you see

the old way of thinking was always that

Israel will never be able to make peace

with the with the broader Muslim world

because they're Furious about what

you're doing to the Palestinians but the

clean break strategy was like no no no

you're going to embark on what

ultimately became the Netanyahu doctrine

that will make it deals with the rest of

the the Arab world so we don't have to

give up this land and you know what they

recommended these two neoconservatives

in 1996 and I bet you'll never guess

this Joe regime change in

Iraq for the security of Israel that was

in

1996 and these people got in George W

Bush's government and after 9/11 those

same people decided that they believed

that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass

destruction and that he was involved in

9911 yeah so there it is uh Israel can

shape its strategic environment in

cooperation with turkey and Jordan by

weakening containing and even rolling

back Syria this effort can focus on

removing Saddam Hussein from power in

Iraq an important Israeli strategic

objective in its own right as a means of

foiling serious Regional Ambitions and

here's where it gets crazy

how much of a how what a great job the

Mad did in compromising people by the

way I mean how much of an effect did

that have in everything you know you can

go full Edie Bravo and think everything

that's happening is because of Epstein

Island and I used to dismiss that a lot

more easy than I do now maybe not

everything umot but certainly someu you

will see this you will see this and and

I'm not saying that that estein is the

sole reason for this type of stuff

there's several different reasons but

you see this all over the the political

sphere and especially amongst like uh

conservative commentators where as soon

as Israel is mentioned whatever their

principles were that they were just

rolling with are like gone yeah like

it's a totally different thing and I get

that I get there's there's a reason for

that too of course like what Jewish

people have been through in the 20th

Cent Cy in the 19th and 18th century

like that that plays a part in that too

um but there's no question that like

it's not just um it's not just uh um

Epstein it's also and I highly recommend

people read uh John mimer has a a great

book called The Israeli Lobby there's

also this Lobby Apec which is a very

very powerful Lobby the truth is that

every US president since with perhaps

the ex exception of trump I'm actually

not sure about that but every US

president since Jimmy Carter I know for

sure excluding Trump every one of them

wanted a two-state solution every single

one of them none of them were able to

get it done even though we bankroll

Israel you'd think it'd be fairly easy

for us to like put pressure on the

country that's relying on us like okay

we'll keep supporting you but you got to

do this nope even when they go over and

say we want to do this they're not able

to do that and part of that is because

of of the lobby part of that is because

there's like tens of millions of

Evangelical Christians in this country

who believe that the Jews have to

control Israel like in some religious

view that Jesus can't come back unless

the Jews control him or something like

that I don't exactly understand it um

they go there on tour they have tours

they go there well and they also and and

the Israeli government's well aware of

that and they're well aware of how much

they benefit from that so they do

everything they can to facilitate that

that belief um white dudes with golf

shirts y That's right they're a big

Force they're a really big block in this

country there's not like a few dozen of

them like there they're willing to throw

some real money at bringing Jesus back

yes they they're very uh that's a very

big deal to them but look like there's

um all of these US presidents they

they've wanted an outcome that they're

unable to get and you can look there's

this one video of Benjamin Netanyahu

where he doesn't know he's being

recorded um and he's speaking openly

about this and it's pretty so he he

openly starts bragging about how he

basically blew up the peace process and

how he like he basically recording on

this yeah oh yeah I mean it's in Hebrew

but there's it's translated and it's

legit it's been translated by like a

whole bunch of different people um and

he's bragging about how he put all of

these poison pills into the peace

agreement like he was like oh yeah sure

we'll we'll Grant I I agreed to grant

them a state but only after uh it was

determined that we could like um Israel

could control like military uh like

important military areas and then he was

like I also snuck it in that only Israel

gets to Define what the military

important areas are and I decided that a

third of the West Bank is that and like

he's bragging about and he's bragging

about how he tricked Bill Clinton and

how easy it is to move the Americans

it's it's wild like there's there's a

lot of power plays at work here and the

only other thing I'll I'll say about

this and it's not just like the

neoconservative the the clean break the

strategy that they wrote for Netanyahu

it's that so in 2002 Benjamin Netanyahu

comes and testifies before uh Congress

as a uh as a regional expert um and he

testifies that like oh yeah no if you

guys overthrow Saddam Hussein democracy

will sweep the region let me tell you I

know something because I know this

region better than anyone else and at

one point Dennis cenage actually grilled

him and got him on record and he goes is

there anybody else that you're

advocating that we preemptively attack

and Netanyahu goes yeah Iran attack them

too so I'm not like I don't hate Israel

like I think Israel is a cool country I

think what they do to the Palestinians

is [ __ ] up and it's inexcusable and

they should stop but I I think Israel is

a cool country there's a lot of great

things about them but like Netanyahu

this guy who's the longest serving prime

minister in Israeli history has been

trying to get America into Wars that are

in his interest that are very clearly

not in ours and the fact that we have to

like unconditionally support Israel even

when our our own democratically elected

president doesn't like the policies that

they're enacting and yet they still get

all of this support