Uphold Institutional x Kaspa - Dr Martin Hiesboeck Interview with Yonatan Sompolinsky

Summary

このトークでは、ブロックチェーンのスーパースターであるJonathan zolinskiが、Casperという新しいコンセンサスプロトコルについて語りました。Casperは、ビットコインの遅い取引確認時間を解決し、インターネットのレイテンシに耐える設計を目指しています。また、Defi（分散型金融）の分野で、トランザクションの順序が重要になるため、Casperはそのニーズに応えるために最適化されています。さらに、Casperはスマートコントラクトを実装し、ゼロ知識証明技術を利用して、オフチェーンでの計算と検証のギャップを埋めることで、より効率的なシステムを提供する予定です。また、安定コインの導入が見込まれており、その安全性と流動性確保についても議論されています。

Takeaways

• 📈 Casperは、ブロックチェーンのシーケンス問題を解決し、高速で安全なトランザクションを実現するというビジョンを持っています。
• 🔗 Casperは、インターネットのレイテンシに応じて、ブロックレートを自動調整する新しいコンセンサスプロトコルを導入しています。
• 💡 Casperは、DeFiと金融取引に最適で、トランザクションの順序が重要であるため、シーケンス機能を強化しています。
• 🚀 Casperは、高速なブロックレートをサポートすることで、マイニングプールへの参加意欲を減らし、分散性を高めることを目指しています。
• 💻 Casperは、スマートコントラクトを実装し、ゼロ知識証明技術を利用して、オフチェーンでの計算と検証のギャップを埋める予定です。
• 🤝 Casperは、ユーザーにとって有益な機能を提供するだけでなく、需要も創造する必要があり、広範なデジタルアセットエコシステムに接続しています。
• 🌐 Casperは、インターネットの不安定性に対処する能力を持つことで、分散型システムのセキュリティを強化します。
• 💰 Casperは、トランザクションフィーの市場を活性化し、ユーザーが最適な価格とリターンを得られるように競争を促進します。
• 🔒 Casperは、安定性とセキュリティを確保しながら、より速い取引の承認を目指しており、ユーザーには即時のフィードバックを提供します。
• 📚 Casperは、研究と開発を通じて、DeFiのシーケンスチャレンジやその他の問題に対処する新しいアルゴリズムを提供しています。
• 🔑 Casperは、ステーブルコインの導入を検討し、Oracle問題や清算の順序付けなど、DeFiの主要問題に対処する準備をしています。

Q & A

アップホールドのデジタルアセット生態系で何を提供していますか？

アップホールドは、デジタルアセット生態系における教育と実行を提供しています。彼らは過去2年間で、ユニークな取引エンジンを持つインSTITUTIONALグレートOTC取引プラットフォームを構築し、300以上のデジタルアセットをまたいで流動性を提供しています。

カスパブロックチェーンの価値は何ですか？なぜそれが必要なのですか？

カスパブロックチェーンは、インターネットのレイテンシーを許容しながら、より高速なブロックレートと取引の確認時間を提供することで、ビットコインの遅い取引確認時間を改善することを目指しています。これは、ネットワークのレイテンシーと非同期性の問題に対処する、より洗練されたコンセンサスプロトコルを提供することで価値があります。

カスパが提供する主要な機能は何ですか？

カスパは、取引の順序付けと迅速な確認を提供し、MEV（最小化された排出量）のリスクを軽減するとともに、市場での取引手数料の健全な競争を促進します。これにより、ユーザーは最適な価格とkickbackを得ることができます。

カスパのセキュリティ予算の持続可能性はどのように確保されますか？

カスパは、ブロックレートの増加を通じてマイニングプールへの参加意欲を減らし、マイナーが1%のハッシュレートを持っても1秒間に1ブロックをマイニングできるようにすることで、マイナー集中の問題を緩和します。また、スマートコントラクトの導入を通じて、ユースケースを広げ、セキュリティ予算を確保する計画です。

カスパが提供する取引エンジンはなぜWall Streetのようなものと比較されるのですか？

カスパの取引エンジンは、10～100のウォールストリートエンジンが取引を順序づけ競争することで、ユーザーが最適なkickbackを得られるように設計されているためです。これは、ウォールストリートの金融取引と同様の競争と価格設定機能をブロックチェーン上で実現するためです。

カスパが注目している金融アプリケーションは何ですか？

カスパは、取引の順序に敏感な金融アプリケーション、特にDeFi（分散型金融）に注目しています。これは、取引の順序が重要であり、高速な取引確認とMEVのリスク軽減が求められる領域です。

カスパが将来的に展開するであろう主要なアプリケーションは何ですか？

カスパは、順序付け機能を完璧にすることで、DeFiエンジンや取引エンジンとして最適化され、インSTITUTIONALクライアントにとって非常に興味深いものになると見込まれています。

カスパ上で安定coinsが展開される可能性はありますか？

はい、カスパ上で安定coinsが展開される可能性があり、カスパの特性を持つと非常に柔軟性の高い安定coinsになると予想されます。安定coinsは、金融取引において重要なツールとなっています。

カスパにおけるOracle問題とは何ですか？

Oracle問題は、カスパのようなブロックチェーン上で、外部の価格情報やデータをシステムに提供する役割を担うエンティティに関する問題です。これは、システムの安全性がこれらのパーミッションされたOracleに依存することになるため、完全な分散型ではないという課題があります。

カスパにおける流動性の提供について教えてください。

カスパは、高ブロックレートを通じて個々のマイナーが流動性を提供できるように設計されています。これにより、マイナーはサービスプロバイダーとしてユーザーの取引をマイニングし、競争を通じて最適な価格とkickbackを提供します。

カスパが直面している最大の課題は何ですか？

カスパが直面している最大の課題は、順序付け機能を完璧にすることです。これには、取引の高速確認、MEVのリスク軽減、および市場での取引手数料の健全な競争が含まれます。これにより、ユーザーは最適な取引条件を得ることができます。

カスパの今後のロードマップには何が含まれますか？

カスパの今後のロードマップには、スマートコントラクトの導入、DeFiとの統合、安定coinsの展開、およびOracle問題や流動性の提供に関する問題の解決が含まれます。これにより、カスパはより幅広いユースケースに対応し、セキュリティ予算を確保するでしょう。

Outlines

00:00

🎉 イベント紹介とカスパブロックチェーンの概要

アップホールドという機関投資家向けのデジタルアセット取引プラットフォームが、教育と実行を提供するトークン・ディスカバリーイベントを開催しています。カスパブロックチェーンの創設者であるジョナサン・ゾリンスキー氏を招待し、彼が過去10年間で発見したBitcoinの問題と、それがカスパブロックチェーンの開発に至った経緯について語ります。

05:00

💡 ネットワークレイテンシとコンセンサスプロトコルの課題

Bitcoinのブロック生成間隔が10分間隔と設定されている理由は、ネットワークレイテンシを考慮したものであり、コンセンサスプロトコルがどのようにレイテンシに対応するかが重要です。カスパは、インターネットのレイテンシに耐える設計を目指しており、より速いブロックレートと取引の確認時間を提供します。

10:02

🚀 カスパの進化とRustでの開発

カスパは、初めは1秒あたり1ブロックの生成速度で動作していましたが、現在は10ブロック、または100ブロックを目指しています。Rust言語でのコードベースのリライトにより、ブロック生成速度を向上させることができました。また、新しい問題に対するシーケンス処理の研究も進んでいます。

15:04

🔄 インターネットの信頼性とカスパの役割

インターネットの信頼性の問題を回避するために、カスパは必要不可欠です。Bitcoinのマイニングの集中を避けるためにも、カスパの高ブロックレートが役立ちます。また、カスパは分散型のサービスプロバイダーによって取引が行われる可能性があり、ユーザーのトランザクションを効率的に処理することができます。

20:06

💼 DeFiと取引手数料の競争市場

カスパは、高いブロックレートを持つことで、DeFiや取引手数料の競争市場を活性化することを目指しています。トランザクションのシーケンス処理において、多数のエンティティが1ラウンドで競争し、ユーザーに対して最適な価格とリターンを提供することが可能です。これにより、ユーザーは取引の間に発生する可能性のあるアルゴ取引攻撃に対して保護されます。

25:07

🛡️ セキュアなカスパの持続可能性

カスパは、マイニングプールへの参加を避けることができる高ブロックレートを誇ります。また、スマートコントラクトの導入を計画しており、ゼロ知識証明技術を活用して、コンピュテーションオフチェーンを実現します。これにより、BitcoinやEthereumよりも効率的な設計が可能となります。

30:09

📈 ステーブルコインとカスパの将来

カスパは、ステーブルコインの導入が予定されており、その特性上、非常に多機能なステーブルコインになると期待されています。また、DeFiの流動性を提供するサービスプロバイダーとして、カスパは重要な役割を果たすでしょう。しかし、ステーブルコインの扱いには、オラクル問題や清算時のシーケンス処理などの課題があります。

35:12

📧 連絡先と次のウェビナーの期待

アップホールドの連絡先として、[email protected]が提供されています。また、次のウェビナーでステーブルコインについて詳しく議論する予定であり、参加者には詳細を楽しみにすると呼びかけています。

40:12

📞 マイクの問題と別れの挨拶

ウェビナーの最後に、マイクのトラブルに対して謝罪の意を表し、参加者に対して安全と幸せを願って別れの挨拶を述べています。また、今後もカスパファンからマイクが送られる可能性があるとユーモアを交えています。

Keywords

💡デジタルアセット

デジタルアセットとは、電子的な形式で存在し、所有権や価値を持つデータです。このビデオでは、デジタルアセットの取引プラットフォームとしてアップホールドが紹介されており、300以上のデジタルアセットを扱うOTC取引プラットフォームを提供していることが触れられています。

💡カスパーブロックチェーン

カスパーブロックチェーンは、ビットコインの課題に対する解決策として開発された分散型台帳技術です。ビデオでは、カスパーがどのようにしてインターネットのレイテンシー問題を解決し、より迅速な取引確認を実現しようとしているかが説明されています。

💡インターネットレイテンシー

インターネットレイテンシーとは、情報伝送にかかる時間のことであり、ブロックチェーン技術では取引の同期性の問題を引き起こします。ビデオでは、カスパーが任意の大きなインターネットレイテンシーを許容し、より迅速な取引確認を実現することができると強調されています。

💡プロトコル

プロトコルとは、コンピュータ間での通信を行うための標準的な方法です。ビデオでは、カスパーのプロトコルがどのようにしてネットワークレイテンシーに対処し、安全で高速な取引を実現するかが説明されています。

💡スマートコントラクト

スマートコントラクトとは、ブロックチェーン上で実行可能な契約条項をコード化したものです。ビデオでは、スマートコントラクトの実装がカスパーが有用で持続可能な未来を持つための鍵であり、それがどのようにデフィや金融アプリケーションに役立つかが議論されています。

💡ゼロ知識証明

ゼロ知識証明とは、情報の具体的な内容を知らせずにその正しさを証明する方法です。ビデオでは、ゼロ知識証明技術がスマートコントラクトやオフチェーンでの計算にどのように役立つかが説明されており、カスパーがこれを利用してより効率的な取引を実現する可能性が示唆されています。

💡オーダーブック

オーダーブックとは、金融市場で取引注文が集約される仕組みです。ビデオでは、カスパーがオーダーブックを通じてどのようにして取引手数料の市場を活性化し、ユーザーが最適な価格を得られるようにするかが議論されています。

💡マイニングプール

マイニングプールとは、複数のマイナーが力を合わせてブロックの報酬を得ようとする組織です。ビデオでは、カスパーの高ブロックレートがマイニングプールへの参加意欲を減らすことで、マイナーの集中を緩和することができると述べています。

💡デフィ(分散型金融)

デフィは、中央権限のない金融サービスを提供するブロックチェーンベースのシステムです。ビデオでは、カスパーがデフィエンジンとして最適であるとされており、取引の順序付けと迅速な取引確認がデフィで重要な役割を果たしていることが強調されています。

💡ステーブルコイン

ステーブルコインとは、法定通貨やその他の価値の安定した資産に結びつけられたデジタル通貨です。ビデオでは、ステーブルコインがデフィで重要な役割を果たし、カスパーがステーブルコインをサポートすることでさらに価値を提供できると述べています。また、ステーブルコインの流動性問題とオーラクル問題が提起されており、それらの課題に対する解決策が探求されています。

💡オーダーシーケンシング

オーダーシーケンシングとは、取引注文を順番に処理するプロセスです。ビデオでは、カスパーがどのようにしてオーダーシーケンシングを改善し、取引の迅速性とMEV（マイナー可視利益）の保護を提供するかが説明されています。これは、ユーザーが最適な価格と手数料を保証されるようにするために重要な役割を果たします。

Highlights

Uphold has built an institutional-grade OTC trading platform with a unique engine connected to over 30 venues for sourcing liquidity across 300 digital assets.

Casper is a blockchain designed to address Bitcoin's latency problem and provide faster transaction confirmations.

Casper has evolved significantly in the past year, with a mature Rust codebase and the ability to handle 10-100 blocks per second.

The Casper consensus protocol aims to provide fast confirmations while maintaining security, even during high network latency.

Casper's high block rate enables a competitive market for transaction fees, preventing manipulation and providing users with kickbacks.

Casper is well-suited for decentralized finance (DeFi) applications that require fast, secure transaction sequencing.

Smart contracts will be implemented in Casper using efficient zero-knowledge proof technology, making it the first project designed with this technology from the start.

Casper's focus on good sequencing is essential for its usefulness and competitiveness in the blockchain space.

Casper's high block rate reduces the need for miners to join pools, mitigating centralization concerns.

The future of Casper lies in its ability to provide fast, secure sequencing for DeFi applications and other order-sensitive domains.

Casper is exploring solutions for the oracle problem and liquidation ordering in DeFi, which are critical for the security and stability of stablecoins.

Casper's competitive advantage comes from its focus on perfecting sequencing to provide fast, secure confirmations and protect users from manipulation.

The development of Casper is well-timed with the emergence of efficient zero-knowledge proof technology, allowing it to implement smart contracts in a scalable, trustless manner.

Casper's high block rate and competitive transaction fee market make it an ideal platform for institutional clients and large liquidity providers.

The success of Casper hinges on its ability to provide good sequencing, which is essential for fast confirmations, MEV protection, and preventing manipulation.

Casper is working on research to utilize its high block rate for running auctions and competitions among miners, ensuring users get the best transaction fees and kickbacks.

The implementation of smart contracts in Casper will be done in a way that integrates with the broader decentralized ecosystem, ensuring both supply and demand for its usage.

Transcripts

welcome everybody to this uphold special

token Discovery

event some housekeeping first at up all

institutional we focus on providing

education and execution in the digital

asset

ecosystem we have built over the last

two years an Institutional great OTC

trading

platform with a unique trading engine

that is actually connected to over 30

different venues so that our clients can

Source liquidity across 300 digital

assets whatever that means I'm not a

Trader it's very complicated but

apparently it's the best there is for

more information on uphold descent

please visit the website and you can

email institutional uphold.com

uh at the end of this webinar we'll send

you a little form which you please fill

in properly with the right answers

saying that everything was awesome so I

can get my paycheck at the end of the

month thank you everyone today we have

for the second time the marvelous the

brainy the Superstar of blockchains

Jonathan zolinski welcome again to uple

yonatan my pleasure and my honor we

spoke last over a year ago at the very

beginning of this journey after first

time we were in contact was one and a

half years ago but when we spoke in

April last year I think you opened my

and you opened the world's eyes to some

basic problems in in Bitcoin and they

have echoed I write about them in my

newsletter my clients talk about them

and certainly crypto Twitter crypto X

the platform for many loan is Twitter is

full of people loving loving Casper

there is there are three apparel makers

who make kaspa gear one of them is

actually my neighborhood and um I went

to Bohemia I went to

ches to get a haircut which comes with a

foot massage there and on the flea

market somebody sold me a Casper sticker

for my phone and that is absolutely in

the middle of nowhere and it's it's

amazing where you can find Kasper and

how how how this has grown in just the

space of a year did you expect that

did it does it come to you as a surprise

too I did not expect that and even when

you tell me about it uh I

am a bit uh distan from the reality of

this there's a saying that one to which

uh uh a real event or happens will never

recognize it so um this is the state of

of recognition I'm at

you realize that it's a big thing so

let's go back to the basics um the the

most important discussion points of the

last webinar were uh I think referred to

the the longest chain problem and what

the actual problem in Bitcoin is that

made you go on with your research over

over a decade and then start the kasba

blockchain can you explain to those who

are completely new to kasba what the

point is why do we need it why does it

have value

so the pro

the it's interesting you're starting

with with Bitcoin because the the

ecosystem has advanced and new problems

with sequencing have arised but if we

going back to the beginning to the

Genesis of of this this whole uh

Venture then in in consensus protocols

the every every cons protocol is

characterized by the level of tolerance

or

flexibility that it has

towards uh how how it Rea to the

internet latency for the network

latency and Bitcoin we for excuse me to

explain this we are forgetting sometimes

that blockchain run on the internet

right um and the internet has a latency

problem that is what what is meant by

Network

latency so the the latency is the is

maybe fact that's the fact that any

distributed system and the behavior of

the system with respect to this latency

dictates a lot I know it sounds but

sound nuanced and uh very very um

technical but in fact if you if you

think this um through then the entire

double spend problem stems from latency

the entire need to run consensus in the

first place stems from asynchrony from

the fact that two two events can happen

at different places in the world where

the two respective servers or many

recipients are not aware of the other GL

so it's a basic fact it's like it's the

bedroom consensus is how do we deal with

a synchrony how do we reconcile to

events to conflicting events that happen

in different factions of the network and

this is characteristic of consensus

protocol and the properties of consensus

protocol are good or bad depend

depending depending on how it it reacts

or corresponds to network lency and the

protoc call was a very uh of course was

very numberal and very

successful at the same time it solved it

in a very rude manner dictating that

transactions or blocks of transactions

be sent only once in 10 minutes or once

in a very long time in Internet terms so

that there are no practically no

conflicts this

is this was understood everyone back

then

and and so everyone accepted bitcoin's

uh small uh long block

interval and you know and and around

maybe 20 2013

2014 um my advisor and myself have

embarked on a journey

to design proof of work pro calls they

do not suffer from this problem more

more um May me articulate it in a more

General manner that design proof of work

protocols that can tolerate arbitrary

large internet latencies this was the gr

it started with Jan I'm sorry your your

microphone keeps cutting in and out a

little bit can you try holding it closer

and and

I have a little bit of problem

understanding

you please

[Music]

continue worse it's worse

can you try now

sorry for this guys but if we don't

understand youan the web the webinar is

quite pointless can we try again does it

work

now hello no I can't hear

you no

you want to leave the room and come back

in

maybe I hope it's not a problem with

webinar

jam oh technology it's a good thing

we're not working for a technology

company is it better now

Doc this is better now let's go

on where were you were explaining about

I will I will go to my uh to my f it

work okay oh no it works now I can hear

you clearly

now okay so as I mentioned

the the the journey began began around

2013

2014 with the goal of Designing

consensus protocols faithful to the same

proof of work Paradigm assessed

architecture while being able to

tolerate internet latency which

practically means higher block rate

faster confirmation

time for transactions this is by and

large the original the origin of the J

it has developed the goals have been

expanded and in perspective on what

sequencing the role of good sequencing

uh systems have expanded as well so new

problems uh in the ecosystem and new

maybe new context for for this

challenge so the the main motivation was

because Bitcoin doesn't consider latency

or has a very rude very crude way of of

overcoming the latency problem and

that's why we have Casper Casper was at

first when we first talk was running at

one block per second a lot has happened

in the last year we are talking about 10

blocks 100 blocks per second we have the

uh rewrite to rust let's review the year

since April last year when we first

talked what has happened in to to Casper

where are we now one year

later so one year

later the rust uh the rust uh project is

uh very mature

the the code base is running uh on

minute on most nodes um and and

basically we are we are ready to use the

capabilities of rust and

architecture that uh developers uh

engineered rust bued into the rust Co

base and to upgrade the block rate so

the from the development side which I

was not uh

spearheading the the main activity was

on uh enabling High block weight through

rust rust is not only about high block

weight it's also about a better

architecture but the need for a better

architecture

is you know is manifested or you can the

fruit ofure when you increase the block

rate but this again this was not my this

is just to be clear this is not the main

this I'm I'm not the main TR behind this

effort this was exp by Michael ston

and a team of dozen dozen developers MH

and and in parel to that there's

research that is designed to whose goal

is to solve further sequencing uh

challenges all within the context of

what can we do with com consensus

protocol what's the functionality what's

the goal of the consensus protocol and I

can elaborate on that and so so there's

and these these developments will be

maybe in the next year or two

elaborate on that what what is the goal

of a consensus protocol what why is the

Casper consensus protocol better I mean

we've all in academia' all long accepted

that the Nakamoto consensus is quite

primitive and and not suited for for a

lot of things but in your own

words so

the first is still in still in still

when when speaking about the speed from

the 's perspective and from the from

the narrow length of speed versus

internet latency versus consensus if we

still stick to that Paradigm then then

the original passport protocol Phantom G

is able to tolerate an arbitrary high

fput that affects for me so you need to

side in the room when you laun the

currency what the lat what M Laten is

then you run with this

spary so the way this works and this is

not this is not very unique to clas in

the sense that this

process this process any group of

developers which needs which which

launches um f system engine must decide

un launch what the what the the the

latency parameter will be this damic is

spirit acoss all con

protocols

was

was inher to the proof of work and

gaining all the of 5% security

decentralized proof of

workation of blocks etc etc we were able

through the protocol to say okay let's

to tolerate any any proof of work um any

any

throughput okay so this was the

original

um this was the original uh intervention

of see I see people complaining of this

maybe I will try

to um move to

the to the phone let me know if it's

there we are talking about internet

latency and

protocols and we we got make the

microphone

work okay now we've got two of you is

this by any chance better this is much

better let's do it on the good old

phone

okay I found that out myself I'm paying

for in internet bandwidth for my router

and my 5G is 10 times faster than

anything I can get over over my wifi

it's

insane well this was all this was all uh

in order to prove to you that the

internet still cannot be relied on and

that's why we need

Caspa that's why we

need is

unreliable it is by the way it is the

reason why we see this concentration of

Bitcoin miners right it makes economic

sense to be concentrated in a space with

low latency a miner on on the island of

Vanuatu wouldn't stand a

chance please continue right let let me

let me touch on this point but and also

rehash what I said about cast

provisional protocol the upgrade and

what the roles of role of sequencing is

because the these things are are are

know part of them are overlooked part of

them are forgotten so from from the

perspective of speed you want the engine

to be able to tolerate you know we have

no patience we want ping pong we want a

user to send a transaction get immediate

confirmation so in that sense impatience

is one of the core values of CA we want

that goes for everyone on Twitter

impatiently typing when is kaspa going

to $1 patience

people patience in transactions continue

especially with the latest generation

people have no attention spans and no

patients

anymore yeah you know as Nal said P be

impatient with actions but patient with

results um very very well said yeah yeah

now now let's let's go back to to the

the first upgrade

so about four maybe four and a half

years

ago um sorry so so as I said any team of

consens of of consensus developers that

is launching a consensus engine

typically must sit on day one or day

Zero and say hey what's the maximum

internet latency that we are okay with

protecting against is it 5 seconds is it

one hour of course the immediate

trade-off is the more paranoid you are

the larger safety margin you are um

baking into the system the more secure

you are and the more slow you are so

this is Basics speed security tradeoff

and the original protocol of Caspa did

not avoid did not escape this trade-off

that was the Phantom go protocol its

only upgrade or only Improvement um over

Bitcoin Nakamoto con protocol was that

it can tolerate one block per second or

or one block per T per per 100

millisecond but again it's it's a the

throughput must be constant and the

delay must be known in advance now the

dag knite

protocol which and I co-authored

is is alleviates this and escapes this

tradeoff it basically says that the net

the the network the the consensus

protocol will self adjust and understand

what the sufficient um fraction of

blocks what what's what fraction of

blocks is sufficient to secure the

current a network

and will basic will respond to the

network latency

and in that sense this is a big

upgrade because you get two benefits one

benefit is when the internet is smooth

you confirm transactions much faster and

the other is that when the internet

there's a big hiccup or World War I

then you're still secure you're slower

but you're you're secure this is a very

important upgrade um it will take time

to to finalize this we are working on

this there also applied research going

up behind the scenes on the um providing

uh efficient algorithms to compute to

calculate dite so we're not yet near the

end but this is a very important

one and this again all of this is still

in the context of the

narrow the narrow role the narrow

Paradigm the narrow lens of viewing the

role of sequencing as

providing the as fast as possible

confirmations

okay

now with if you think about if you think

in this Paradigm there is no reason to

go beyond 10 blocks per second because

from a user perspective there's no

difference between 100 milliseconds and

10

milliseconds we are not that sensitive

to time there is how there are however

advantages to going um IC on the Block

rate and these stems these these

advantages stem from a deeper property

of high block rate or of maybe

asynchronous consensus and that

is you

are enabling a healthy Market of

transaction fees because instead of

having one in any most cons protocols

that you are aware of in crypto and

outside crypto there's one leader one

minor one validator proposer each

consensus each Community invents their

own glorified terms but you have one

leader that sequences this round so for

proof of stake you will have you know in

ethereum once every 12 seconds uh

certain validator is

selected and that Val that um I think uh

proposer is the is the the soul the

monopolistic um monopolistic entity

that's controlling that round whether

the round is one per second or 11 12 one

per 12 seconds regardless of of the time

constants time scale most consens

protocols operate in this manner but the

opposite would be leaderless consensus

right the opposite would be leaderless

consensus and without uh delving into

what exactly the technical implication

uh definition is the practical implic is

you send your transactions to several

entities which can compete over your

transaction and you might say okay is

this a transaction fee are you saving me

a few cents on Caspa

fees and the answer is

nowadays the comp competition on

transactions is the main thing the main

action in uh in crypto it's called me

and if and and and basically me V took

the entire crypto space from the

discussion about consensus protocol and

what happens how fast you mine blocks

and how fast do the blocks pile and

provide you security it took all this

and said well what happens between zero

confirmation and first

confirmation so you see I worked for

many years yeah the sequencing part so

you know I I worked many years on

designing good consensus protocols for

the from that will give you very fast

first confirmation and end confirmation

the end confirmation but then it turns

out that there's lots and lots of money

that in the gap between zero

confirmation and one confirmation and

this this is known to anyone that's

familiar with in finance um you know the

AL

trading that's that's called in finance

front running that's what Meb is so

front run I would say algo trading front

running back sandwich attacks Etc which

and if you think

about no please go ahead I don't want to

interrupt so I'm saying if you think

about algo trading for instance in Wall

Street then in Wall Street you're at

least you at least have the Assurance or

the hopeful uh the optimistic assurance

that the IT personnel of of Wall Street

are not um tinkering with your

transaction are not sandwiching you

merely for the fear of

law um now this is this is in crypto the

minors are Anonymous you know at least

um some minors are Anonymous and under

no jurisdiction or or at least no North

American jurisdiction and they can

manipulate your transaction at will yeah

now so this is this is essentially a

paradigm shift if you look at computer

science research and crypto everything

shifted from this discussing one to end

confirmations to discussing 0 to one

what happens in this Gap and in that

context in that more in this broader

lens you can realize that having many

entities per round compete on mining the

next block and sequencing the next block

and sequencing a user transaction is

very very

helpful because B because then Dr Martin

can say hey I don't know I'm a liquidity

provider I don't know what the correct

price is because there's asynchrony and

someone can front run me can um um snap

me can spoof my

transaction I will let the miners

compete and who give me give me the best

price and the best Kickback so let's say

my my my liquidity is very large and I

might I might get a kickback for miners

$1 thousand dollar in equilibrium it

will match the me so this is very I

remember when this came when this came

about I was still with ethereum in the

in the foundation and it was a bombshell

right the realization of this was was an

absolute shock to people in

ethereum so how does how does

c oh oh they were

flabbergasted that was a memorable

session so how does Casper come into

that what what does Casper do with with

sequencing and

me

so the research that um

um investing in currently is how to

utilize the fact that we are supporting

that we will support 10 to 100 blocks

per second how to utilize this to run an

auction and competition among miners so

as to guarantee to users that they will

get full Kickback for the m at their

expense so if you think about a a Wall

Street engine now consider the cons

consider a scenario where there are 10

or 100 Wall Street engines and they all

compete on Dr Martin's transaction who

gets to sequence it

and the the winner in this auction is

that which gives you the highest

Kickback so by by inventing or by by um

by devising a competition by designing a

competitive market for your

transaction we're able not to solve m

not to count not to elimin not to

prevent M but rather to guarantee that

you will get full compensation for that

for the m at your that was done at your

expense this is a I I would argue this

is a a paradig shift

because it was thought that the

the as I mentioned it was thought that

okay the entire MV is

done between the Z1 first confirmation

but still all the auctions that are

proposed in the in the community today

all these mechanisms are still with one

leader one leader controls everything

there's a monopolistic sequencer in

almost all systems that I'm aware of

yeah and you need this um chaotic 10 to

100 competing entities to provide Meb

protection so this is another main thing

that I'm working on so it doesn't

eliminate any but it gives you the

kickback from it and the the M bot isn't

isn't the winner um I'd like to move on

to to um two other things first of all

I've got four more questions here

written

down I leave the Outlook last um the

question of the security budget right so

we have especially in Bitcoin we have

this NeverEnding discussion about

Bitcoin not actually doing anything and

the security budget being exhausted

after because it only incentivizes

miners so the question is how does the

future of Casper in terms of

continuously providing security look

like I'm assuming the answer has to do

with making Casper actually useful but

uh I put the question to

you how does how does Casper remain

sustainable and doesn't run into the

same problems that we've seen with

Bitcoin in terms of minor concentration

lack of of uses and the security budget

so minor concentration is is mitigated

through a high block rate the high block

rate means you can you you there's less

of a push for you to join a mining pool

there are maybe other considerations for

you to join a mining pool but the the

lack of granularity of rewards is not

one of them in Casp as a minor you can

if you have 1% of the hash rate and we

will be running on 100 blocks per second

you will mining one block per second

this is this is where this is this is

the the end the end goal the Dream that

that uh it will be sufficient for an

entity to own 1% of the hash rate in

order to to mine one block per second

and then I

imagine uh a significant part of the

miners will be service providers that

will mind their users transactions so

maybe a u smart contract wallet

or you know or other other forms of

wallets with uh specific users a

specific user base maybe

upold yeah no maybe no maybe yeah I

don't but you'll need to compete that's

the thing Ian even if you bribe me

you'll still need to compete with 99 um

other entities so I guess you're know

our friendship won't be that helpful for

you um okay in terms of usefulness in

ter in in terms of usefulness it's

definitely the case that we have to

implement uh smart contract but this

will will not be done as an um as an

afterthought this is there's a reason

why we will do this in the next year not

in the past year yeah and I'll explain

I'll explain what what's you know how

how the timing here is very very

important so in

ethereum ethereum went in smart contract

in 2013 2014

now since

then ever so to speak originally

was a design of optimistic

rollups Parton me and then and then as

um zero knowledge technology became more

and more efficient more and more

scalable zero knowledge wups came came

um came along and they're basically the

I I there they seem to be the main

Contender not in terms of adoption but

in terms of uh technological sense

now if you told uh if if if ZK

technology was available back then when

ethereum

launched then no one would invent a your

in complete onchange smart contract

system you would utilize the gap between

computation verification that dkp

enabled

to say well the user or their service

provider or some other um entity will

will bridge will uh utilize the will

provide uh a proof to the system of the

computation and all the decentralized

system will use the the network of

decentralized node will use will only

need to consume resources for

verification this is a very basic and

and trivial design I'm not um you know

it's not something that um I claim

ownership over

now Al this is the same this is true

also of Bitcoin if if in in the days of

Bitcoin you had some way to in in a in a

in a scalable manner to introduce an OP

code to verify zero knowledge uh proofs

then this would have been done in 20 um

2009 and then again the system so you

have now a situation where Bitcoin was

developed

and Bitcoin and ethereum were developed

before there was this technology of of

user doing the computation the entire

network doing only verification and the

way uh uh Satoshi approached it is okay

there you know implicitly at this

although I if I recall there was there

were some discussion on this in Blan

post but the way satosi approached it is

okay the scripting language of Bitcoin

is verification focused no computation

verification focused yeah the way italic

approached it is the scripting language

of ethereum is fully expressive full

competition that's why the we threw out

in Bitcoin this the opcat code right if

the op Professor oo's opcat would have

been part of of Bitcoin from the

beginning it would have had smart

contracts from day one but the focus not

fully natively not fully natively even

upcat would would just make things

easier but not you'll still need the the

bridge to to bitcoin wouldn't be

trustless um even with

opat wouldn't be fully trustless

now with the spring of Z KVM Tech today

all that Casper needs to do is add one

you know maybe two or three up codes for

several um you know zkps like Stark like

Stark this version snark this version

and then through a a friendly clone use

the existing codebase so our

it's very it's essential that you keep

the same architecture

as I will say this maybe more bluntly

it's from a timing perspective and

architecture perspective it's the first

project that is designed like Bitcoin

with the with the with an efficient

technology out there for um for

computation offchain okay in ethereum

it's more like you design this entire

stack computational stack

people invented rollups and then

gradually gradually the usage of the

layer one is is uh through rollups but

it's it's like an afterthought

architecture so this is something that

has to happen in kaspa and yeah if

that's it needs to happen in a in a pace

that will ensure that that they has

usage and we need to plug in somehow to

the to the broader D5 um ecosystem in

order to ensure that there's not only an

ability to use it but also a demand for

it so there's a lot of uh work to um

reduce friction from a user based

adoption um yeah so that's that's to

address your question on security

budget we have a lot more visibility now

lots of stuff is happening what things

do you see Casper being good at

especially good at I think last time we

talked it was the possibility of being

an ethereum rollup

def has that changed in any way what are

the future main applications for Casper

in your

view the defi

is in in general Finance is currently

the the main application that is

interested that is very sensitive to the

ordering of

transactions most other applications are

not very sensitive to the

ordering and so they can use you know

like chain supp Supply chains that which

can use an authenticated um database and

does not even consensus so if if if you

search the the landscape for good use

case it will always be around Finance or

order sensitive um

domains now the qu so Caspa is there

there are not many things Caspa is good

at and wants to be good at Caspa is

perfecting the sequencing properties and

I can't overemphasize once you solved

it's it's like a necessary and necessary

sufficient and necessary condition in

order to be useful because with all

exactly with with the once people solved

once other project solved the

computation verification Gap there's

nothing else to solve other than good

sequencing now this start now you know

the crypto Community

invents new terms for things that were

around um along long time ago you know I

remember that I remember when when

blockchains were still

VTS and you know there's there's many uh

many names for for this so today in

ethereum ecosystem this is called shared

sequencing you know a few maybe a year

ago there was a heated debate about side

chains whether it's a side chain or L2

around polygon you know year before that

was Data availability layers every year

you

know at least me personally I need to

relearn what I already knew just adjust

the new names just because they give it

a new

name yeah ingenious marketing teams but

you need to and then there's like

nuances you know about data availability

layer versus sequencing layer versus um

shared sequencing and you know every

every Nuance supposedly justifies a new

marketing campaign but the gist of

everything the of all this is

that nothing matters other than good

sequencing and good sequencing means

speed and me protection and while this

seems um um very like specific why is

you know why is he talking about me

protection is it just Trend no

meev is the informational gap between

the sequencer and transaction issuer and

this informational Gap is millions of

dollars per day so it's it's not it's

not um it's it's not picking the nail

that we know that we know how to deal

with it's it's picking something that is

very inherent to asynchronous

systems okay so that's

what it it does make the perfect defi

engine and trading engine this will be

very interesting for our institutional

clients I want to put one last question

because we already on for 40 minutes um

first of all we're going to have

apparently the krc2 tokens there people

are developing this uh sooner or later

but there was there is now a

consensus in uh in finance that we don't

need a digital this a digital that

dollar euro uh we're not going to

transact in some crypto but stable coins

have become a key um tool for finance

and governments and central banks have a

much easier time using stable coins than

getting into crypto and running their

own blockchains I suppose we will see a

stable coin on Casper sooner or later

and with the properties of Casper that

would be an absolutely super versatile

fantastic stable coin I think you talked

about that at at a Meetup in

Israel

uh the the there's no doubt that there

will be a stable coin and that without a

stable coin it's not

useful um you you can't solve the boot

STP by by just uh waiting for everyone

to come and the money and you know the

price to stabilize and then we'll start

being

useful um with that said I

will I will highlight there is you know

another research on um uh boost wrapping

on this matter and that is

the problem the main problem of of uh of

stable coins is liquidation

events

and St the entire St stable coin uh or

or the the most of stable coins uh in

defi are based on collateral or over

collateralization of the of the loan or

the print of the stable coin which makes

totally sense

but

um yeah so so this this makes

sense yet it opens up two um two

important questions that I will

deliberately leave open for

now both for the for the sake of you

know time and for the sake of teasing

you and ensuring that you'll you know

invite at least one of my co-authors for

for another webinar and that is so the

two the two attack vectors or the two

you know fundamental ambiguities that it

it opens up are who which entities what

entities report to the system the prices

so this is the Oracle

problem and when you think about the

Oracle problem you are it's the the

experience is like okay did we solve

anything by by doing a t in complete

blockchain because it the finance here

the entire Finance is based on a stable

coin whose security is based on 10

permission servers that are reporting to

us the

price so it seems like the T complete

system has solved everything once Until

you realize that it requires an external

set of permissioned oracles to report to

you the security of the St the stability

this is a major one one major major um

flaw and the other one

is when the oracles correctly or

incorrectly spontaneously or malicious

uh report to you that some liquidation

ought to take place what's the ordering

again what's the sequencing what's the

ordering in which a collateral

collateral um owners are

liquidated and even outside the the lens

of me you know whether the miners can or

cannot manipulate it manipulate this

liquidation event uh spoiler alert they

can but even putting that data side

there's the the the conceptual challenge

which is

more in in finan thinking about this

financially or in terms of um mechanism

design I would say which agent should be

liquidated and in what ordering this is

another thing um I'm working on this is

you know part of my my post do um

research and I I hope to give you more

details in our next meeting fantastic

I'm looking forward to the next meeting

already uh Austin will be reaching out

to you with a next date we can discuss

stable coins if anybody wants to trade

on uphold message institutional at

uphold.com I will be in New York two

weeks from now uh if any institutional

if anybody wants to talk to me I will be

at some event um on a boat on a on a

warship I have no idea why uh but I'm

flying to New York in two weeks and to

speak about amongst things amongst other

things sequencing and Casper and the

world Beyond Bitcoin and ethereum thank

you everybody for watching uh put your

questions to our research uphold.com

email uh we will do a uh cut of this

webinar where we cut out the problems

with the with the microphone and

um make it a bit shorter for public

consumption and there will also be a

transcript I I think thank you so much

Jonathan all the best I hope the this

conflict thing in Israel is over soon

people are suffering this is not good

thank you for finding the time to join

us here at Apple and I'm looking very

much forward to our next

meeting thanks a lot I appreciate it I

apologize for the problems with the mic

no I'm sure you're going to get 10 mics

in the mail right now from Caspa fans

around the

world fortunately they do not know my

mail address

[Laughter]

which is a good thing in your case I

assume you would be bombarded with stuff

stay safe stay happy keep appr thanks

thank you everyone goodbye