Beyond The Box Episode 5: More please! Shipping's race to scale green fuels

Summary

本视频深入探讨了航运业面临的环境挑战和绿色燃料的发展前景。目前，全球航运业每年消耗约3亿吨化石燃料，是全球污染最严重的行业之一。为了减少排放，航运业正在探索使用绿色燃料，如绿色氨和绿色甲醇。尽管绿色燃料的生产和需求存在挑战，包括供应与需求的不平衡、能源密度较低以及建立新的供应链和基础设施的需要，但已有一些公司，如Sun Gas Renewables，正在努力推动绿色燃料的大规模生产。此外，政策支持和法规的制定对于促进绿色燃料的采用至关重要。视频强调，为了实现航运业的可持续发展，需要整个行业的共同努力，包括航运公司、燃料供应商和监管机构的合作。

Takeaways

• 🚢 全球航运业每年燃烧约3亿吨化石燃料，是全球污染最严重的行业之一。
• 🌱 绿色燃料的开发和规模化对航运业降低排放至关重要。
• 🔋 如果集装箱船要电气化，电池将占用单船80%的容量，这是发展绿色燃料的部分原因。
• 🚧 绿色燃料的生产和需求之间存在挑战，即所谓的“先有鸡还是先有蛋”的问题。
• 🛳️ 一些航运公司已经订购了绿色船舶，并且许多船只将在未来几年交付。
• 💚 绿色燃料包括使用可再生电子和绿色氢气制造的燃料，如绿色氨和绿色甲醇。
• 🔵 蓝色燃料，如蓝色氨，是通过天然气制造的，但进行了碳捕集，因此碳不会进入大气。
• ⚖️ 绿色燃料的供需匹配是一个问题，目前既没有足够的供应也没有足够的需求。
• 📈 绿色氨和甲醇的能量密度比化石燃料低2到3倍，这意味着需要更多的绿色燃料来替代现有的海洋燃料。
• 🌐 绿色甲醇的全球生产能力正在增加，预计到2027年将生产超过800万吨/年。
• ⏳ 尽管存在许多挑战，但行业内部有强烈的意愿和行动来加速绿色燃料的转型。
• 📊 为了实现航运业的去碳化，需要建立新的供应链和基础设施，以及确保安全指南的制定。
• 🚧 传统化石燃料的需求不会很快下降，这给绿色燃料的转型带来了额外的挑战。
• 🇲🇨 IMO海洋环境保护委员会的修订策略表明，实现航运业的可持续未来需要全球的共同努力。

Q & A

全球航运业目前每年燃烧多少吨化石燃料？

全球航运业目前每年燃烧大约3亿吨化石燃料。

为什么发展和规模化绿色燃料对航运业至关重要？

如果集装箱船要电气化，仅电池就将占用单船80%的容量，这还只是原因之一。绿色燃料的发展和规模化对于航运业至关重要，因为它们能够显著降低航运业的排放，帮助行业实现可持续性。

什么是绿色燃料，它们是如何分类的？

绿色燃料通常是指低碳的燃料。它们可以根据制造过程中使用的能源和方法被分类为不同的颜色，例如绿色燃料使用可再生电子和绿色氢气制成，如绿色氨和绿色甲醇；蓝色燃料则基于天然气，并通过碳捕获过程制造，如蓝色氨。

绿色燃料的供应和需求之间存在哪些挑战？

绿色燃料面临的挑战是供应和需求之间的不平衡，即所谓的“先有鸡还是先有蛋”的问题。目前，既没有足够的供应，也没有足够的需求。例如，没有能够燃烧氨的船只，也没有绿色氨的供应。

绿色燃料如氨和甲醇与传统化石燃料相比，能量密度如何？

绿色燃料如氨和甲醇的能量密度大约是传统化石燃料的三分之一到二分之一，这意味着要替代相同体积的海洋燃料，需要显著更多的绿色燃料。

全球目前生产多少吨氨，预计到2050年将增长到多少？

目前全球氨的产量约为2亿吨，预计到2050年将至少增长到6亿吨，以满足现有应用以及新的应用和最终用途，如作为海洋燃料和发电。

绿色甲醇可以通过哪些方式生产？

绿色甲醇可以通过两种方式生产：生物甲醇是通过生物质或有机材料的气化生产的，而电子甲醇是通过结合绿色氢和捕获的二氧化碳生产的。

到2027年，全球绿色甲醇和生物甲醇项目的预计产量是多少？

甲醇研究所跟踪的全球绿色甲醇和生物甲醇项目预计到2027年将生产超过800万公吨。

为什么说绿色燃料的生产和部署需要大规模的基础设施建设？

由于绿色燃料的能量密度低于传统化石燃料，因此需要更多的燃料来替代相同体积的海洋燃料。这意味着需要建立新的供应链、存储终端、驳船等基础设施，以及建立安全指南，以确保这些分子从生产到最终用户安全、负责任地流动。

航运业如何通过统一的行动加速绿色燃料的部署？

航运业可以通过围绕绿色航运走廊的统一行动、建立供应链、建设燃料补给设施、投资技术途径等多种方式来加速绿色燃料的部署。这需要整个行业共同努力，不挑选赢家和输家，而是共同建立一个全新的行业。

为什么说没有一家公司或一个国家能够单独实现航运业的绿色转型？

由于绿色燃料的生产和部署需要巨大的资本投入、技术创新和政策支持，没有单一的公司或国家能够独立承担这一转型的全部责任。这需要政府、行业和投资者之间的合作，以及明确的监管框架和市场信号，以促进新项目和新技术的投资。

Outlines

00:00

🚢 全球航运业的绿色燃料转型

航运业是全球贸易的重要支柱，但同时也是污染严重的行业。本段落讨论了全球航运业面临的挑战，包括每年燃烧约3亿吨化石燃料带来的环境污染问题。为了应对气候变化和环境法规，航运业正在寻求通过使用绿色燃料来降低排放。节目介绍了绿色燃料的概念，包括绿色氨和绿色甲醇，并提到了绿色燃料在航运业中的应用前景，如马士基公司即将运营的生物甲醇动力船。

05:01

🔄 绿色燃料的分类与供需挑战

本段落深入探讨了绿色燃料的分类，包括绿色和蓝色燃料，以及它们的生产过程。绿色燃料指的是使用可再生电子和绿色氢气生产的燃料，如绿色氨和绿色甲醇；而蓝色燃料则是在化石燃料基础上通过碳捕获技术生产的。同时，段落指出了绿色燃料面临的供需挑战，即供应和需求之间存在的“先有鸡还是先有蛋”的问题，以及绿色燃料相比化石燃料能量密度较低，需要更大量的生产来满足需求。

10:03

🌱 绿色甲醇的生产与市场发展

绿色甲醇作为可再生能源的重要组成部分，其生产技术已经成熟。段落中提到了Sun Gas Renewables公司在大规模生产可再生燃料方面的努力，以及如何通过建立新的供应链和基础设施来加速绿色燃料的全球生产能力。同时，讨论了绿色甲醇的市场需求信号和供应响应，以及如何通过明确的市场信号来促进新项目和技术的投资。

15:03

⛽ 海运业的绿色燃料转型挑战

尽管有积极的市场需求信号和供应响应，但绿色燃料的转型仍面临诸多挑战。本段落讨论了如何将绿色燃料从生产者转移到最终用户，特别是对于海运业中的氨和甲醇等燃料。强调了新供应链和基础设施的建立，以及安全指南的重要性。同时，提到了传统化石燃料需求不会很快下降，以及整个行业面临的成本差距、合规后果不明确和缺乏长期解决方案等问题。

20:04

🌐 绿色燃料的未来与监管框架

本段落总结了绿色燃料的未来发展和所面临的挑战。指出了需要增加绿色燃料的生产，因为它们的能源密度低于传统化石燃料。强调了需求存在但生产滞后，以及制定绿色燃料的法规框架的必要性。没有公平的竞争环境或不遵守的后果，向更可持续的航运业转型将会非常缓慢，几乎不可能实现。

Keywords

💡绿色燃料

绿色燃料是指在生产过程中使用可再生能源，如绿色氢气，制成的燃料，例如绿色氨和绿色甲醇。这些燃料被认为是低碳的，有助于减少航运业的温室气体排放。在视频中，绿色燃料被视为航运业减少污染和实现可持续发展的关键解决方案。

💡能源密度

能源密度是指单位质量或体积的燃料所含有的能量。视频中提到，与传统化石燃料相比，绿色燃料如甲醇和氨的能源密度较低，这意味着为了提供相同的能量，需要更多的绿色燃料。这一特性对绿色燃料的生产和储存提出了挑战。

💡供应与需求

供应与需求是经济学中的基本概念，指的是市场中商品或服务的可供应量与消费者的需求量之间的关系。视频中讨论了绿色燃料市场当前面临的挑战，即供应不足和需求未充分形成，这导致了所谓的“先有鸡还是先有蛋”的问题。

💡生物甲醇

生物甲醇是通过生物质或有机材料的气化生产的，是一种绿色燃料。视频中提到，生物甲醇和电子甲醇（由绿色氢和捕获的二氧化碳制成）是未来可能替代航运业中化石燃料的候选燃料。生物甲醇的生产和使用对减少碳足迹具有重要意义。

💡碳捕获与存储

碳捕获与存储（CCS）是一种技术，旨在捕获工业过程中产生的二氧化碳，并将其存储以防止其释放到大气中。视频中提到了蓝色燃料，如蓝色氨，是通过使用天然气生产，并结合碳捕获技术，以减少对气候变化的影响。

💡航运业

航运业是指涉及船舶运输的行业，它是全球贸易的重要组成部分。视频强调了航运业在全球污染行业中的地位，以及它在气候变化和环境法规下的转型压力，特别是对绿色燃料的需求和开发。

💡减碳

减碳是指减少大气中的二氧化碳浓度，以减缓全球气候变化。视频中讨论了航运业如何通过使用绿色燃料来降低其碳排放，这是实现全球减碳目标的关键策略之一。

💡监管框架

监管框架是指由政府或国际组织制定的一系列规则和政策，旨在指导和控制特定行业的运作。视频中提到，为了促进绿色燃料的使用和生产，需要建立一个公平的监管框架，以及对不遵守规则的明确后果。

💡绿色航运走廊

绿色航运走廊是指专门用于航运业中绿色燃料使用的海上航线。视频中提到，建立绿色航运走廊是推动绿色燃料需求和供应链建设的一种方式，这对于加速航运业的绿色转型至关重要。

💡可再生能源

可再生能源是指来自自然过程中不断补充的能源，如太阳能、风能和水能。视频中强调了可再生能源在生产绿色燃料中的作用，特别是绿色氢的使用，它在制造绿色氨和绿色甲醇等燃料中发挥关键作用。

💡能源转型

能源转型指的是从依赖化石燃料向使用更清洁、更可持续的能源来源转变的过程。视频中讨论了航运业在能源转型中的挑战和机遇，特别是绿色燃料在帮助该行业减少环境影响方面的潜力。

Highlights

全球航运业每年燃烧约3亿吨化石燃料，是全球污染最严重的行业之一。

为了减少排放，航运业正处于采用绿色燃料的十字路口。

如果集装箱船使用电力驱动，电池将占据单船80%的容量，这突显了开发绿色燃料的重要性。

绿色燃料已经在生产中，并且有几家运输公司已经订购了绿色船舶，预计未来几年将交付。

Mask公司准备使用世界上第一艘绿色馈线船，该船将使用生物甲醇，并将于秋季在波罗的海开始运营。

绿色燃料的分类目前尚不明确，通常指低碳性质的燃料，如绿色氨和绿色甲醇。

绿色燃料的生产和需求之间存在持续的“先有鸡还是先有蛋”的挑战。

绿色燃料如氨和甲醇的能量密度比化石燃料低两到三倍，因此需要显著增加产量。

到2050年，全球氨的产量预计将至少达到6亿吨，以满足现有应用和新应用的需求。

绿色甲醇可以指生物甲醇或电子甲醇，它们是通过不同的绿色氢和捕获的二氧化碳组合生产的。

甲醇研究所预测，到2027年，全球绿色甲醇和生物甲醇的产量将超过每年800万吨。

Sun Gas Renewables公司认为，绿色燃料的供应前景是积极的，并且看到了规模化生产的潜力。

MMSARI公司表示，自2018年以来，绿色甲醇市场有了巨大的发展，目前有超过100艘甲醇船舶的订单。

尽管需求和供应响应都很强劲，但向净零排放的过渡速度可能不够快，面临多种挑战。

建立新的供应链和基础设施，以及制定安全指南，对于绿色燃料从生产到最终用户的转移至关重要。

传统化石燃料的需求不会很快下降，行业需要在成本、合规后果和长期解决方案上取得平衡。

IMO海洋环境保护委员会的修订战略强调了实现航运业脱碳化目标需要的合作和监管框架。

绿色燃料的转型需要整个行业和监管机构的共同努力，不能单靠一家公司或一个国家来实现。

Transcripts

foreign

[Music]

it happens every day thousands of

container vessels sail across the oceans

and enable global trade to make sure

that consumer goods food and Medicine

reach the consumers however the world

currently Burns around 300 million tons

of fossil fuels per year which makes

shipping one of the world's most

polluting Industries

amid the turbulent Seas of climate

change environmental regulations and the

dire quest for sustainability global

Shipping stands at a crossroad to lower

its emissions

in this episode of Beyond The Box we

embargo on a voice to understand one of

the most challenging yet promising

beacons on the horizon of shipping

green fuels

welcome

this is beyond the Box integrated

Logistics from the inside out

[Music]

we're back welcome to episode 5 of

Beyond The Box my name is great Cecilia

Ross and my name is Jonathan Williamson

and can I just say I'm so excited to be

back it feels like it's been ages since

I last saw you so good first of all can

you tell me how was your summer I

traveled Portugal from the south to the

north and basically ate my way through

the country literally but I suppose also

with my carbon footprint that sounds

like a perfect holiday minus the carbon

footprint obviously and let me guess you

rendered a car to get around I did and I

think I know where you're going with

this I'll have you know I normally drive

an electric car but yes the rental car

was a traditional petrol driven car

manual too because I can drive a stick

but the fuel part that's where you were

going with this yeah ah you know me too

well yes but it wouldn't have been so

bad if it was Green Fuel and that's

exactly the topic of this episode green

fuels but specifically in the world of

shipping not road trips exactly and let

me hit you and our listeners with a hard

fact for comparison if container vessels

were to be electrified the batteries

alone will take up 80 percent of the

capacity on a single vessel this is just

part of the reason as to why the

development and scaling of green fuels

is pivotal for the shipping industry

wait if vessels would run like say a

Tesla they would only carry 20 of

containers compared to a fuel driven one

exactly wow imagine what a supermarket

would look like I did not know that I

suppose it's not just good news then but

very good news that green fuels already

are being produced and that several

carriers have ordered Green Ships many

being delivered in the coming years

definitely speaking of mask is ready

with the world's first green feeder

vessel ever and to all of us not

speaking shipping fluently just yet a

feeder vessel is of the smaller kind

carrying up to 2 000 ish containers

sounds about right they so to speak feed

the larger vessels in for instance areas

where the massive triple E's can't go

and this one in particular will Sail on

biomethanol and start operations in the

Baltic Sea this Autumn and that is truly

worth celebrating so not to be a spoiled

sport but there are numerous obstacles

ahead and we will dive into them in this

episode

but first let's get an overview of the

different kinds of green fuels we spoke

to Professor lidlu who's the CEO of the

global Center for maritime

decarbonization in Singapore and this is

her helping us all understand the

fundamental Basics so the classification

of green fuels is actually

um not well defined today the taxonomy

is not there I think green is something

we generally refer to as being low

carbon in nature right although strictly

speaking there are different colors are

given to uh these Future Fuels and in

that context green refers to fuels that

are made with renewable electrons with

green hydrogen so for example like green

ammonia and green methanol there are

blue fuels so blue ammonia for example

is made with a natural gas so it's

fossil fuel based but then you do the

carbon capture and so the carbon

actually does not get into the

atmosphere

um it's just processes and these

different colors refer to the process by

which these fuels are made

and just like that green fuels 101 a big

question remains though how do supply

and demand match up yes Professor Lynn

Liu can also Enlighten us on that

balance or rather imbalance should I say

I don't think we have the supply nor the

demand I think frequently we hear the

complaints about not having the supply

not having the supply not having the

supply but I would say if you talk to

the suppliers they would say that we

don't have the demand either right and

so this is the Perpetual chicken and egg

challenge that we're dealing with

especially uh in the maritime sector

um you know we don't have the ships that

can burn ammonia neither do we have the

green ammonia I think methanol is

further along as demonstrated by the

marisk container feeder vessel right and

that's one step along the ways I think

it's both to increase demand but also to

increase Supply

um and currently uh the world bunkers

about 300 million tons of fossil fuels

and fossil fuels are significantly more

energy dens compared to methanol or

ammonia so methanol or ammonia depending

on whether you're looking at it

graphometrically or volumetrically is

between two and three times less energy

dense than fossil fuels and so you're

going to need significantly more if

you're going to replace the entire

volume of marine fuel these numbers are

humongous right I mean there's no

question that the demand has to grow

ammonia Global Production today is about

200 million tons that's going to be at

least 600 million tons by 2050 and so

it's going to grow tremendously not only

to satisfy existing applications but

with new application and new end use

like Marine fuels like power generation

these numbers are going to be humongous

[Music]

okay listening to Professor Lin Liu of

the global Center for maritime

decarbonization in Singapore I'd say

this is incredible numbers right

incredible yes but also mind-boggling

I'm especially dumbfounded by the fact

that green fuels be an ammonia or

methanol are between two and three times

less energy dense than fossil fuels this

creates a situation of not just one

actually producing these types of fuels

but two having to produce so so so so so

much more I mean the last few numbers

were just for ammonia honestly the

numbers for renewable methanol are just

as mind-blowing I'm almost at a point of

just tapping out like pardon my language

but how the hell are we gonna succeed

that's a good point and sorry for

laughing but it is a big task ahead and

this is exactly why we call it a journey

yeah this surely isn't fixed overnight

no you're right and you mentioned it

yourself before that was just the

numbers for ammonia yeah so let's do a

tiny bit more of hand-holding first off

green methanol can mean either

biomethanol or emethyl biomethanol is

produced through the gasification of

organic materials or biomass and

e-methanol is produced by combining

green hydrogen and captured carbon

dioxide the methanol Institute is

tracking e-methanol and biomethanol

projects around the world it calculates

that these will produce more than 8

million metric tons a year by 2027

at the same time some estimates say we

will need as much as 540 million metric

tons by 2050 to fully replace fossil

fuels in shipping 8 million today versus

540 million in the space of a few

decades understand why I'm considering

just tapping out completely definitely

me as well there is a lot of work to be

done here but before you tap out there

are thankfully some companies helping to

accelerate the Global Production

capacity for green methanol we spoke to

one of those companies Sun Gas

Renewables in the U.S they are a leading

company in providing technology and

Equipment systems for the large-scale

production of renewable fuels

when asked about the chicken and egg

situation and if it's even doable and

more importantly scalable this is what

David Lamont senior vice president of

corporate development said sungas's view

of the current supply of green fuels is

um is positive we've been surprised at

how few obstacles we've seen not just

from Marine methanol but in any areas

where it's going to be hard to Electrify

as the pathway to Net Zero renewable

green fuels are going to have a large

role to play I really think green

methanol is the next big chapter in

renewable energy

the will is there with the work marisk

and others are doing to lead the

creation of demand the capital is

forming rapidly to build massive amounts

of global infrastructure that's going to

be required to deploy these fuels the

technology to produce green methanol at

scale is ready today

and I think we're all showing as we work

together how to demonstrate the right

kind of collaboration that's needed to

catalyze a huge amount of progress in a

really short amount of time it's a good

story

to accelerate at scale I think the

Marine industry should do more of what

it's already doing it's unifying around

green shipping corridors Building Supply

chains building bunkering facilities

investing in technology Pathways of all

kinds to access these renewable fuels

that's going to be really important

we're not picking winners and losers

we're building a whole new industry here

and there's going to be room for new new

Innovations there's certainly room for

lots of supply and and continuing on

those demand signals and giving clear

sort of clear Market signals to allow

for investment in new projects and new

technologies it's going to be really

important to accelerating the the growth

and supply of these fuels

clearly sees potential in this space but

when it comes to deciding to ramp up

Supply and build a production facility

well let's just say it's a long and

Winding Road it sure is Paul McCartney

but remember Professor Lynn Liu from

before she'll agree with you at the end

of the day no question you needed to

build at historical rates year over year

for the next 30 Years but though all

that is true David Lamont as a producer

of green fuels still sounds very

optimistic so let's broaden the scope

and hear if an off taker is as positive

about the transition to Net Zero

mmsari is responsible for buying fuel as

the head of energy markets at musk

here's her perspective so it's been uh

an enormous development since 2018

um basically

um we were a first mover we put a bet on

green methanol we ordered our first uh

green methanol vessel and there was no

market for for green methanol at the

time and what we see today is

um a large share of followership so we

have many now of our competitors ordered

green methanol vessels and the order

book is standing at more than 100

methanol vessels so this been quite an

exponential growth here which is

fantastic so we see a very strong demand

signal being sent to the market and when

we then talk to our product developers

Etc we also see that there's a very very

strong Supply

response as well so we have now a

pipeline of uh near to 100 leads that we

are following up on and they are

different stages of development there

are projects across the globe and we can

see that they're more and more maturity

in the products that we're looking at so

according to mmsari there's both a

strong demand signal and an equally

strong Supply response which is great

news but is the transition happening

fast enough and what challenges are we

facing here's both David lamond and Emma

massari again yeah some of the key

obstacles that we saw were really around

is the demand going to be there and

merishka course has done its part to

provide a strong signal and a real

commitment to taking that concern away

and that is really sort of unlocked all

of the potential of the opportunity to

produce these renewable fuels in

sustainably managed forests in the U.S

Southeast we have been working initially

with the center for zero carbon shipping

the organization that mayor's helped

create to sort of understand how the

Marine industry could unpack the

decarbonization problem what are the

pathways what are the fuels that could

be used and so our work with them

showing how how our fuel pathway fits

into the overall decarbonization

equation really helped us understand

that there's a real opportunity here a

large scale opportunity a particularly

sweet spot for us to deploy our

technology and so that led then to about

two years ago really starting out

heavily working on the development of

what is now the Beaver Lake facility

so the main obstacle really is to

accelerate the pace and making sure that

we have sufficient green fuel supply to

the market there is a lot of demand

coming with all these new vessel orders

so it's really a now for product

developers and investors to to sort of

drive this transition together with us

currently the green methanol Market

production is very small and we have now

ordered 25 methanol vessels the first

one is already sailing and the big ocean

going vessels will be start to be

delivered early next year in 2024 and by

2030 our ambition is to have 25 percent

of our fuel mix in Ocean running on

green fuels and for this we need about 5

million tons of green methanol and we

can see on the customer side that there

is very strong demand and we need to

make sure that we can deliver to our

customer demands so that they can meet

their science-based targets and

therefore it's really important that we

can drive this transition at speed with

our partners with recent regulatory

developments it's clear that there's no

turning back there is there needs to be

decolonization for shipping and that

means that this acceleration of green

fuels to Market needs to be successful

for the industry to be able to to meet

decarbonization targets and to deliver

credible solutions to our customers

thank you

so we've established that there is a

Need for Speed in terms of development

and scale but challenges aren't limited

to production Professor Lin Liu of the

global Center for maritime

decarbonization in Singapore unfolds the

topic even further

um I think there's a lot of attention

paid on sort of Upstream production side

of things

um but I think not enough attentions

being paid at the interface right how do

you get that molecule from production to

um to the End customer or to the end

user that's tremendously important

especially when we talk about marine

fuel ammonia e-methanol and biomethanol

although I think scale Arts challenges

there

um is a new a new use case therefore new

Supply chains need to be established new

infrastructure needs to be established

especially at the port side storage

terminals bunkering barges etc etc

Pipelines

um so we can't forget that middle piece

right and then finally last but not

least it's sort of the guidelines right

the safety guidelines uh need to be

there uh so that you can ensure these

molecules flow safely and responsibly

from sort of the production side of

things uh to the end user

foreign

so now we've heard about the transition

to Green fuels from both the provider

and an off Taker and a professor but

there is another side to this story or

should I say dilemma that needs to be

presented yeah because though you could

think otherwise the demand for

traditional fossil fuels won't slow down

anytime soon to understand why we spoke

to Manchester a global top 10 bunker

shipping company last year it supplied

6.4 million tons of fuel to the Marine

industry and as a fuel Trader and

provider when Jessa has a unique

position in the value chain it's in

close dialogue with actors both up and

downstream and here's Jesper Nielsen

group responsibility director of course

liner companies have a clear Advantage

right they will lead the transition and

they know their schedules they can plan

around with more sophisticated fuel

mixes but

for most of the industry I see a Triad

of key issues there's a wide cost Gap

that has not been dealt with and it's

causing an a widespread apathy across

the industry right now and two there are

there are no there are no clear

consequences of non-compliance and then

thirdly there's just no easy long-term

solution inside for any ship owner yet

and when you combine these three factors

it's just we're just in for a couple of

tough years our partners are looking

into an immature Market with incomplete

regulation and just framework conditions

making it very difficult to trust a

multi-billion dollar spreadsheet and

push the let's go button right the most

sane investors would lean back and say

no no absolutely we should wait 5-10

years and then it says how the landscape

finally worked out

um however if everyone just did that

then our Collective chances of meeting

IMO targets they can be multiplied by

exactly zero so ultimately it's just

it's back to the carrot and the stick

and there's certainly no carrots inside

so without a clear stick component we're

just not going to see a broad transition

carrots and sticks chicken and eggs are

we making an omelette here we definitely

have a lot on our plate

wow a dad joke sorry about that but you

know food pants are sad I think this

perspective from Jasper Nielsen is

important because it really underlines

the challenges ahead so true I think a

crucial point to be made here is that no

company can do this alone no country can

succeed by themselves this if it's going

to work must be a joint venture which is

why the revised strategy from Imo's

marine environment protection committee

is worth mentioning and on that note

let's hear from the head of energy

markets at mask one last time here is

mmsari again there is a lot of potential

also with the different regulations that

are being announced and are being

implemented which provides a lot of

support for these products both on the

production side but also on the

consumption of green fuels so there's a

lot of momentum in this space now

exactly and for the regulatory part I

suggest just listening to our last

episode

[Music]

I don't know about you good but my hit

is about to explode with information on

green fuels and the dilemmas involved in

the energy transition for the sake of my

mental health can you please take us all

through what we learned today all right

sure and totally fair it is a complex

subject with a lot of nuances or should

I say ingredients that was a call back

to your dad joke earlier thanks for that

anyway here goes there are several

versions of greenfields and we will long

term most likely see a mix in usage we

need to ramp up production of green

fuels because they are less energy dense

or less efficient than traditional

fossil fuels the demand is there but

production lags and lawmakers need to

agree on a regulatory framework for

green fuels without a loving playing

field or Consequences if you don't

comply the transition towards a more

sustainable future and shipping will be

very slow too slow almost impossible

thank you so much good that was a nice

little rundown of the episode you are a

lifesaver do I get a Michelin star yes

definitely you get two that also gave me

the brain capacity to remember to thank

all the people involved in this episode

and to the team behind the scenes modern

Butler and Ellen Hoffman remember to

subscribe to Beyond The Box on your

favorite podcast platform there are five

episodes so far and you can find them on

Spotify YouTube Apple podcast or Google

podcast until then

[Music]

oh