Anarchy is brewing - be prepared!: General Roland de Vries

Summary

Retired General Roland de Vries, former deputy chief of the South African Army, discusses the potential for anarchy in South Africa amidst high crime rates, corruption, and political instability. He raises concerns about the upcoming elections on May 29th and the possibility of political turmoil and infighting that could trigger chaos. General de Vries shares his observations on the dire living conditions and hunger faced by many citizens, which he sees as a significant threat to the country's stability. He also highlights the importance of community safety plans and the resilience shown by communities in the face of adversity. The General emphasizes the need for self-preservation and collective action among citizens to protect themselves in the absence of effective government security measures. He concludes by expressing his hope for political reform and a peaceful resolution to the country's challenges.

Takeaways

• 🏛️ The interview with retired General Roland, former deputy chief of the South African Army, discusses the potential for anarchy in South Africa, particularly in the context of the ANC government's long-standing issues with crime and corruption.
• 📊 General Roland invites viewers to assess the situation in South Africa on a scale of 1 to 9, highlighting the country's high crime rates and the upcoming elections on May 29th as potential flashpoints for instability.
• 🔍 The General and his team have identified possible trigger events for anarchy, including political turmoil and infighting, which could escalate if the ANC government feels threatened by election outcomes.
• 🚨 He recounts the 2017 Coligny incident and the 2021 incarceration of Jacob Zuma as examples of how quickly unrest can spread, emphasizing the potential for chaos if such events are not contained.
• 👮‍♂️ General Roland has been involved in developing community safety plans across South Africa, aiming to protect communities from high crime levels and to prepare for potential unrest.
• 👥 He shares a personal anecdote about encountering people scavenging for food, illustrating the dire economic conditions and the risk of social unrest due to poverty and hunger.
• 💡 The General expresses concern over the potential collapse of financial systems and the cessation of social grants, which could lead to widespread anarchy.
• 🌎 He discusses the fluid nature of the political situation and the difficulty in determining allies and enemies in the current global context, mentioning the influence of external groups like the Wagner Group and ISIS.
• 🚨 The General questions the capability of the current government to contain serious internal security threats and restore stability should anarchy break out.
• 🤝 He highlights the resilience and unity shown by communities in the face of insurrection, as seen in the case of Underberg, where residents banded together to protect their town.
• ✊ General Roland concludes with a call for self-preservation and community empowerment, urging citizens to develop safety plans and prepare for potential unrest while hoping for political resolution.

Q & A

What does General Roland refer to when he mentions 'anarchy' in South Africa?

General Roland refers to a potential breakdown of law and order, which could be triggered by various factors such as high crime rates, corruption, political turmoil, and social unrest, especially in the context of upcoming elections.

What is the significance of the ANC government's role in the current state of affairs in South Africa as mentioned by General Roland?

The ANC government has been in power for almost three decades, and General Roland implicates it in the rise of crime, corruption, and a potential descent into anarchy, suggesting that the government's actions or inactions have contributed to the country's challenges.

What does General Roland suggest could be a major trigger for anarchy in South Africa?

General Roland suggests that a major trigger for anarchy could be the collapse of the financial systems, leading to the government's inability to pay social grants, which would exacerbate poverty, hunger, and joblessness among the youth.

How does General Roland describe his involvement with community safety in South Africa?

General Roland has been involved with communities across South Africa for the past seven years, helping over 81 communities develop community safety plans, analyzing threats, and setting up community safety play leaders to protect against high crime levels.

What is General Roland's perspective on the potential for political infighting and its impact on South Africa?

General Roland expresses concern about the potential for increased political infighting and power struggles, especially with the entry of former President Jacob Zuma's MK party. He believes this could lead to major political instability and possibly contribute to a situation of anarchy.

What are the 'trigger events' General Roland and his team identified that could lead to instability in South Africa?

The 'trigger events' identified by General Roland and his team include the collapse of financial systems, the inability to pay social grants, rampant crime, political infighting, and the potential for anarchy to spill over to other provinces.

What does General Roland believe is the capability of the current government to contain serious threats to internal security and stability?

General Roland expresses skepticism about the current government's capability to contain serious threats, suggesting that he is not confident in the government's ability to prevent or contain threats and stabilize the situation in a short period of time.

How does General Roland describe the situation in Coligny in May 2017 and its relevance to the potential for anarchy?

General Roland refers to the events in Coligny in May 2017 as an example of how quickly a situation can escalate into major havoc. He uses this as a cautionary tale about the potential for similar incidents to spark widespread anarchy.

What does General Roland suggest as a solution for communities to protect themselves in the face of potential anarchy?

General Roland suggests that communities come together across all cultures, creeds, and colors to develop community safety plans for self-protection. He emphasizes self-preservation and resilience as key to community safety.

What is General Roland's view on the importance of food security in maintaining stability in South Africa?

General Roland highlights food security as a critical factor for stability, stating that the problem in South Africa is not a lack of food but the inability to distribute it due to closed main arterials. He stresses that ensuring food reaches people is essential for maintaining peace.

What is General Roland's hope for the outcome of the upcoming South African election on the 29th of May?

General Roland expresses his personal hope that the ANC does not perform well in the election, as he does not have trust in their leadership. He is hopeful for a change that could lead to political restoration and peace in the country.

Outlines

00:00

😨 Anarchy and Political Turmoil in South Africa

Retired General Roland Deflies, former deputy chief of the South African Army, discusses the potential for anarchy in South Africa, considering the ANC government's nearly three decades of rule marked by high crime rates and corruption. He poses a question to viewers about the likelihood of societal collapse on a scale of one to nine, reflecting on the country's current state and the potential triggers for unrest, such as the imprisonment of Jacob Zuma and the socio-economic conditions. He also shares a personal anecdote about witnessing hunger and poverty, which he sees as a significant threat to stability, and emphasizes the importance of community safety workshops.

05:01

🚨 The Threat of Anarchy and Internal Security

General Deflies expresses his concern about the potential for anarchy if social grants cease due to a collapse of the financial system. He highlights the fluidity of the situation in South Africa and his role in assisting communities in developing safety plans. He also references his military background and knowledge of revolutionary warfare, suggesting that the country is facing an unconventional, asymmetric warfare threat. He discusses the impact of external influences, such as the Wagner Group and ISIS, and the complexities of determining allies and enemies in the current geopolitical climate.

10:02

🏛️ Containing Anarchy and the Role of Government

The retired General contemplates the consequences if anarchy were to break out and the government failed to contain it. He paints a grim picture of rampant crime, gang warfare, and tribal fighting, questioning who would take control if the state lost control. He discusses the quick spread of violence and looting as seen in previous incidents and the importance of the government's ability to prevent and contain threats to internal security and stability. He also touches on the importance of food security and distribution, emphasizing that the problem is not a lack of food but the inability to distribute it due to closed roads and unrest.

15:02

🤝 Community Unity and Hope for Peace

Despite the grim outlook, General Deflies finds hope in the unity and resilience of South African citizens. He shares stories of communities coming together to protect each other and their towns during times of crisis, highlighting the role of community safety planning and the power of people to preserve their own security. He speaks of the 'miracles' of community action during the unrest and the importance of self-preservation and collective defense. He also mentions the importance of political restoration and the role of ordinary people in ensuring peace and stability.

20:03

🛡️ Community Safety and Political Instability

General Deflies emphasizes the importance of community safety zones and organizations for self-protection and empowerment. He discusses the current political infighting and power struggles within South Africa, predicting increased political instability. He stresses the need for strategic planning for both immediate and long-term stability and the importance of community self-defense in the absence of effective government and police control. He calls for unity among all citizens to establish safety and facilitate political restoration.

25:05

🕰️ The Upcoming Election and Hopes for Change

In the final paragraph, General Deflies expresses his personal hope for a change in political leadership, specifically expressing his desire for the ANC not to remain in power due to a lack of trust in their ability to manage the country's issues. He reflects on his efforts over the past seven years to help communities establish safety measures and his hope for peace in the country. He concludes with a note of caution and hope regarding the upcoming elections and their aftermath.

Keywords

💡Anarchy

Anarchy refers to a state of society without government or law. In the context of the video, it is a potential outcome of the political and social instability in South Africa, with the speaker expressing concern about the possibility of the country descending into chaos, especially in the lead-up to and aftermath of the elections.

💡ANC Government

The ANC (African National Congress) is the ruling political party in South Africa. The speaker discusses the ANC government's role in the current state of the country, including issues like crime and corruption, and how their actions or potential loss in the upcoming election could contribute to the risk of anarchy.

💡Crime

Crime is a broad term that encompasses a wide range of illegal activities. In the video, high levels of crime are presented as a significant problem in South Africa, contributing to the potential for social unrest and instability. The speaker mentions crime as one of the factors that could trigger a descent into anarchy.

💡Corruption

Corruption is the dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power, typically involving bribery or manipulation for personal gain. The speaker highlights corruption as a major issue within the South African government, which, combined with crime, is seen as a threat to the country's stability and a potential trigger for anarchy.

💡Political Turmoil

Political turmoil refers to a time of political unrest or instability, often characterized by conflicts within the government or between the government and the public. The video discusses the potential for political turmoil following the elections, which could lead to anarchy if the situation is not properly managed.

💡Community Safety

Community safety involves measures taken by individuals, groups, or authorities to ensure the security and well-being of a community. The speaker talks about his work with communities across South Africa to develop safety plans and leaders to protect against crime, which is a key aspect of preventing anarchy.

💡Social Grants

Social grants are government payments made to individuals who meet certain criteria, often to support the poor or disabled. The speaker raises the concern that if the financial systems collapse and social grants are no longer paid, it could lead to widespread unrest and contribute to a potential anarchic situation.

💡Unemployment

Unemployment is the state of being without a job and actively seeking work. In the video, the speaker identifies youth unemployment as a major trigger event that could lead to anarchy, as jobless young people are more likely to engage in unrest and contribute to social instability.

💡Poverty

Poverty is the state of being extremely poor. The speaker discusses poverty as a significant issue in South Africa, with people resorting to searching for food in dustbins, which is indicative of the desperation that can arise from poverty and potentially lead to social unrest.

💡Political Infighting

Political infighting refers to conflicts or struggles for power within a political group or party. The speaker mentions political infighting as a current issue in South Africa, which could exacerbate the country's problems and potentially lead to greater instability and anarchy.

💡Food Security

Food security is the availability of food and individuals' access to it on a sustainable basis. The video script highlights food security as a critical issue, with the speaker noting that the closure of main roads during unrest can lead to a lack of food supply to certain areas, which is a dangerous sign for the country's stability.

Highlights

Retired General Roland Defries, former deputy chief of the South African Army, expresses concern over the potential for anarchy in South Africa.

General Defries discusses the high levels of crime and corruption in the country, contributing to a tense situation.

He asks viewers to evaluate the possibility of societal collapse on a nine-point scale considering the ANC government's performance.

Concerns are raised about the upcoming elections on the 29th of May potentially triggering political turmoil and infighting.

The General references the 2017 Coligny incident and the 2021 Zuma incarceration as examples of triggers for anarchy.

Defries and his team have identified possible trigger events for instability and signs of anarchy.

The General shares a personal anecdote about witnessing people scavenging for food, highlighting the issue of hunger and poverty.

He emphasizes the dangerous signs of joblessness, poverty, and hunger as potential triggers for a societal collapse.

General Defries talks about the importance of community safety workshops and the role they play in mitigating crime.

The scenario of social grant systems collapsing and the subsequent risk of anarchy is outlined.

The General discusses his experience in developing community safety plans across South Africa.

He shares insights on revolutionary warfare and the concept of fourth-generation warfare in relation to South Africa's situation.

Defries recounts his firsthand experience in Marikana, discussing the sentiments of the people regarding crime and poor governance.

The General compares the death toll in South Africa to the war in Ukraine, emphasizing the severity of the internal situation.

He discusses the fluid political situation and the difficulty in determining allies and enemies in the current climate.

Defries questions the capability of the current government to contain serious internal threats and maintain stability.

The General highlights the importance of community self-preservation and the establishment of community safety organizations.

He expresses hope for political reform and a return to peace, urging politicians to resolve the ongoing issues.

General Defries concludes by stating his personal hope that the ANC will not remain in power due to a lack of trust in their leadership.

Transcripts

South Africa heading for anarchy.

We ask retired General Roland

the phrase the former deputy chief

of the South African Army.

Welcome, sir.

Thank you so, so much, Chris.

It's wonderful to participate

in this, extremely important

interview.

And, I'm

happy to answer your questions.

And the first one, with regards to

the funny and referring to anarchy,

I would like to ask the viewers

and even yourself if,

you should measure what is happening

in our country at this stage.

Taking the witness

of the ANC government into

consideration.

For almost three decades

and, the levels of crime,

the high levels of crime, probably

the most infused,

crime country in the world and the

levels of corruption.

And what's happening in our cities,

in our countryside.

I would like to ask the viewers on

a nine point scale, what's

the policy, possibility of

things running askew in our country

with the run up to the elections on

the 29th of May?

Whether this could happen before the

election.

If the ANC government feels

that they're not going to win this

election or

in the aftermath of

the election, when we find political

turmoil and,

political infighting, what could

happen? Because any trigger of it

would, in actual fact, cause

major havoc, as we

saw happening in Coligny

in May 2017.

And then, especially with the

incarceration of Zuma

in July, 2021,

and what happened in case it in

and the danger of,

anarchy in that sense,

spilling over to our

other provinces as well.

Fortunately, that did not

happen.

Now, I would, we

we're probably going to have a quick

view with regards to possible

trigger events that

we identified me and my little

small team when we did a proper

intelligence appreciation,

looking at, things that

could possibly run askew

and what the danger signs are

all through,

various levels of, of

insurrection or anarchy,

where the state loses control,

over the stability of

this country and,

thinking about,

all of this,

Henriette myself, my wife,

we we live in Plettenberg

Bay.

And early this morning, Tuesdays

in Pittsburgh. May is the day that

they, at a muse, remove

the refuge.

And as I was leaving, though due

to.

To start up our call on.

I was waiting for,

I saw that the with three people,

they they literally surrounded

the dustbin, and

they were grovelling around for

food.

And I started speaking to the

friendly, friendly people.

They they they were quite

friendly in responding to me.

And I said, hi, guys, please don't

leave a mess. And they said, thanks,

monster. But we were extremely

hungry.

And as he Henriette,

we came out of our home, I

shouted to us to.

I said, listen, we've got a loaf of

bread in, our bread

bin kit, could you bring,

please bring it to us?

I would like to give it to these

guys. And we just started

discussing, this issue

with him.

To me, what was our training?

They were kilometres

away from Kranshoek where they live.

And they were travelling each

morning through through our,

our village, searching

for food.

They didn't have food.

And as we drove down

Robert towards, our

town, I said, I

said to him that just look what's

happening around us.

Almost in each one

as we travel towards,

the, the central part of

our town, people were growling

in dustbins and I said, this is an

extremely dangerous site

because of people are not safe

and they don't have food and access

to to be commodities.

This is an extremely dangerous,

dangerous sign because I think

one of the major, trigger

events that could hit our

country like, like an avalanche,

is the question about the young

people not having jobs,

poverty.

And then, of course, basically

being hungry.

And this is something that I see all

over our country.

Why do workshops,

with communities, with regards

to community safety everywhere.

And I said to myself as I was

driving down this road, the

road that if,

the financial systems of this,

this government of ours, our

state should collapse,

they could not pay the social

grants anymore.

They will be havoc and we will see

anarchy, dawning,

over South Africa in no

uncanny manner.

And this, to me, is is one of

one of the major, major signs.

Now with regards to possible

trigger events, I realise that

they are a, you know,

that the, the

situation in our country is

extremely fluid.

I'm not the political analyst.

I'm a soldier.

And for the last seven years I have

been involved with communities

all over our country.

I've probably helped more than

81 communities all

over our country, develop

the community safety plans,

analysing the threats and,

and and setting up community safety

play leaders to protect themselves,

against the rampant crime levels

that that we face in our country.

And.

It is.

It is interesting to listen to all

people and and to hear,

then hear them say that we

are sitting on a powder keg and that

things can, can blow up at

any, any stage in this country.

And I would like to pass over to you

for a moment to hear if there's

anything that you would like to say.

But, I have studied,

during my military career.

And, as

we become more and more involved

in the community safety situation

that we are facing in our country,

have, studied,

books and have also had,

first hand experience with regards

to revolutionary warfare.

Yeah, in our own country, in

Africa and abroad.

And that is how do you

counter the revolutionary onslaught

that we face every day in

our country?

I can refer to books that

was written, in this regard

as well, referring to people like,

Jeffrey and Thea who wrote, People's

War.

And, there are many articles

and, and publications seeking the

light with regards to corruption

in our country and the fact that

we are involved in a slow war.

In, in a very

simple form, I speak

of fourth generation

warfare, unconventional

warfare, asymmetric warfare.

We a brick in the hand is is

also Whitman.

And, perhaps when

we have the time.

I would like to share with you the

experience that I had in Marikana

recently, where I

walked through the villages

and spoke to people on the ground

to find out firsthand how

people were feeling about

the crime situation, the fact

that they are not governed properly,

that we don't have proper service

delivery in our country and that

they, they, they

live in dire straits and

and in danger, danger every

day of their life.

I can remember recently with the

workshop, when

the war in Ukraine broke

out, we were talking about,

the deaths occurring in that country

of approximately 4000

people, who perished,

over a three months period

at that.

At that same time,

more than 6000 people died

in our own country.

So it's an extremely dangerous

situation.

And every every person I

listen to from school year.

Yeah. And, and or to

Johnson to die on and they

on, on, on the TV talking

about, on YouTube,

talking about the situation in our

country and what's going to happen

with the run up to the election and,

and immediately after that.

And the whole situation is fluid.

If we we look at the,

the influence of the Wagner Group

in South Africa, ISIS

the situation in, in

Israel presently,

who who are your friends and and

usual foe who do you

trust?

I mean, America is in a mess.

London and England

is an Amish, European, Amish.

And what's happening in the,

in the Middle East is extremely

perturbing.

And where does that leave us?

Are we friends with the USA?

We will.

Each son will support, come from

what about Putin and the Russian?

Who are they supporting?

Is it that I'm opposed to what

is, in actual fact happening

in our group?

And I would in military terms, I

would like to say that the

intelligence picture

is extremely vague

and within

a sort of a difficult,

and a difficult circumstances

to determine exactly who your

foe and who your friend is is

not easy to make bears with regards

to your own survival.

Absolutely, I do not.

I just want to ask if anarchy

breaks out in South Africa and and

it is not contained.

If the sovereignties failed to

contain it, what then?

It's. I was thinking about that last

night and and I

was imagining what I would say

when you ask that which.

Because it is going to be a

mess. Who's going to take control

of the situation?

If the state, the government

loses control.

And, you you

find rampant

or anarchy and and

gang related warfare

and militias and tribal,

tribal,

fighting happening all

all over our country.

And what's going to happen with,

with our minority groups

in the seats. I would like to relate

that to what happened in case it in,

in, July

2021,

in the 11th and the 12th of

July. And then I remember correctly,

after Zuma was incarcerated,

the accused in started

burning overnight.

And.

But as you arrange novas

and beam W's without

number plates and people

dressed in red t shirts and caps,

we're just driving

into the rural areas and

to the cities. And the plundering

started overnight.

And it was to my mind.

Well, is like the,

revolutionary threat that

materialised, as

if I by signal,

as if by magic.

And one of the greatest dangers with

regards to that is that,

that, anarchy could erupt

in, in minor villages and

infighting could happen.

And this could be an extremely

dangerous situation if it's not

contained by the state.

Now, my question is, what is

the capability of the present

government to to

contain a serious threat

with the internal security and

stability of this country?

Country's threatened.

I'm not happy about the situation

with regards to the,

means of of,

preventing or preventing such

a threat and then containing

it and in a very short period

of time to stabilise and

then normalise that situation,

especially if that spill

spills over to, to the

other provinces.

It will be it will be total,

total chaos.

Now.

I always referred to what happened

in case it in as,

as the,

miracles of case it and

and perhaps it was a good thing that

the pays it in insurrection effort.

And I relate that to

a short YouTube clip that I looked

at the other day, which referred

to the miracles of the Six Day War.

What I saw in

case it in and,

I trembled throughout because it in

helping with our communities,

developing the community safety

plans, setting up community

safety, such as,

all over, not

only in the southern part of

in the southern darkness, but part

of of course, it in but

later, later on in the,

in the northern Natal area

as well and with a few

friends, I travelled throughout

the desert in I know exactly

we every burn mark on tarmac

Adam beach and

what was amazing to me is

how quickly, the

main thoroughfares, the national

roads, were closed down at places.

If I think of roads being closed

down, I immediately think about

Murray River and the for the Ryan

and, Paul's

area.

We we this happened immediately.

And these were situations that

the police could not contain, not

even the public order,

policing units.

And, this was a major threat.

Now, one of the major threats,

which, happened overnight,

during the case, it in insurrection

with the closing down, the illegal,

closure of roads, was

that the, supply trucks

could not, go through.

And we set with a

food security situation

overnight night.

Food couldn't go through to the

Spaza shops, which is.

Which is the final point.

And and the family living in your

in your rural villages,

for food to get through.

The problem in our country is not

that there is not sufficient food.

The problem is if

the main arterials are closed

down and the food cannot

reach our people.

And I always say that the eating

of our land cannot, that but

political restoration in this

country cannot happen if our

people are outside, if

they don't have food, if they are

not secure.

It's a basic Maslow principle

of security.

If that doesn't happen

and the people are

reliant on social grants, I

so I see that all over our country.

He said this.

This country will burn.

Now, what gives me hope?

And I saw that all over.

Well, I worked with, with,

law abiding, peace loving citizens

in our country is that

people are friendly.

They are.

If you take the bullet politics

away, the relationships

on, on on Mother Earth

in, if you walk through

a SuperSport

or through Shoprite or Woolworths.

The people I was are friendly with

each other and they

would like to to to see

peace happening over our country

and to have to have a reliable

and reliable government.

Now.

The the miracles

of case it in that

I'm talking about letting that to

the Six-Day War and what happened

with Israel and with our

Heavenly Father protected them

in a, in a in an uncanny

manner.

It's just amazing to see

was,

the through the days and the nights,

we places like Under Big and

Booger, were infested

by criminals.

And the looting and the plundering

happened.

Was that a little town like

underberg?

We we did, proper preparation

long before the insurrection

happened. In actual fact.

Looking at time and distance.

Brayton Davey Davin of

under under Burt asked me to come

and help him with the community

safety planning in in March

of 2021.

And, we, we

we we got the community leaders

together, including

the police. All the most

important,

interest groups,

the agricultural organisations,

community leaders, we did

the proper planning in, in

strict military style,

terrain appreciation, the threat

analysis, capability

analysis. We developed the plan and

the contingency plans, and

we determined what the danger

signs would be for

for such a possibility.

And then it happened when,

the buses started arriving

in Bulwer, a few kilometres away

from underberg, and they started

looting the, liquor shops

and, and and torching the homes.

The other community stood up.

They organised themselves.

Oh, ladies and main man,

the community halls.

The police, in actual fact, placed

himself under command of the

community safety environment.

They chased the money away.

They said they're taking control

over our town, and they saved our

town. They tell, I

can remember still, I think it was

about on the 14th or 15th

of July. I was travelling,

through the night.

Via Bulwer,

via Pietermaritzburg-Bulwer

toward Underberg to go and

help the community that,

I, I came across roadblocks,

that was manned by.

All kinds of people,

members of the local community

being supported by buy

by.

Taxi owners

and, manning these red

light roadblocks right through the

night. And saving.

Physically saving the

little town,

taking in consideration that be

firefights, but taking,

place all out.

One of the major lessons that I

learned, from this

experience was

travelling back.

Towards Pietermaritzburg and again

moving through bulwark work.

A Google woo work

was meeting one of my ex veterans

who was living very close to the

town, and he invited he was

he here that I was in, in the

area and invited me, for

breakfast?

He was staying in

a little

farming area which was,

hosted from I,

I remember correctly, 1836.

It was sort of the pioneer post.

We had breakfast together, and then

I asked what happened on the

night when the insurrection started

on the 11th and 12th of July.

He said there was a large group of

black people that empties own.

And they and they told him

that they were looting and they

were there to protect him and his

family. To my my mind,

these were the pieces of magic which

happened sort of overnight

in that period.

We we had major insurrection in

KwaZulu-Natal.

And as I was traveling from him,

I'm all into with my story now

through Bulwer again,

my friend Jacques Swanepoel one up

who was sitting next to me.

And, a few nights ago,

we took photographs.

We we drove through that same

village at 1:00 in the

morning, and it was still

small, smouldering.

And a few days after that,

I looked through the window,

a across scene, and

I saw a white guy

in a front loader

with a little team of black guys,

and there was a

few Indian guys and that,

and the Pakistani gentleman

and a Chinese gentleman together

cleaning up the hotel.

And I said to myself, these

up for this country because this

was the miracle of KZN where people

stood up and and they,

they saved their families,

they saved their people and they

kept their villages and the villages

intact. And they are beautiful

stories to be told about

the situation that took place, which

I think never get told.

The magic which happened in places

like, Louwsburg were where

small groups of people saved the

country.

They, they, they towns

from from marauding

gangs and, places

like Mongolia, where

the community just stood together.

And I said, plundering is not going

to happen here. We're going to save

our country.

Over to you, Chris.

General, you've got your ear on the

ground in KwaZulu Natal

now with the entry of former

President Jacob Zuma's MK

party.

How volatile is the situation

likely to become there?

What are you picking on?

What? What I'm picking up

is that there's a major

political infighting.

There's a major power struggle.

And these parties

are are not talking to each

other.

Well, I hear every,

well, every

political analyst talking about

forming coalitions.

But for military men,

I know that coalitions cannot work.

You need proper strategic,

planning.

And, and not

only for the current situation,

but medium and long term planning as

well.

I'm afraid that we are going to see

political infighting happening as

as never before.

And this will cause major political

instability in a country.

And that is one of the reasons

why I sat down with my small group

of guys.

Did the proper appreciation sit?

What are the possible trigger points

which could make things run

askew in our country and even

cause high levels of anarchy,

the political escalation

of crime and the political

threats in terms of intensity.

More people dying, and

then also the geographical

split intensification

of the threat, with other words, the

Spill-over effect.

And you can only look at the

demographics of this country, ie

population densities,

where will it be

closed down and where are we going

to have trouble all over our

country? I don't even have to

mention those places.

You only need to drive through our

country and to see where all

the burn marks are on tarmac,

whether it's an island off the road

between Kirkwood Night and also

author with us in 17

the in Dubai or the in three

or the in for the

in 40 places

like dela del aribo that

is those are

the places where we will see

what bits of fire erupting.

And that's why it's important for me

to, to indicate the

possible threat, threats

which may occur in our country.

What this threat integration is all.

And to support my communities

to to save both

in themselves because one

of the the the first principles

with regard to the safety of our

people is self-preservation.

And then also.

I mean, the government and

the police don't have control over

the security situation

in our country.

And it's time that ordinary people

come together, all

cultures and creeds and colours

and stand together, develop the

community safety plan so that they

can protect themselves and

go, proper political restoration.

Can that. But to me, the there

are two sides of, of

a subtext.

It is almost like the two

arms of the boxer.

On the one side, you have the whole

situation with regards to

political reform, political

restoration, our country, which is

not an easy solution to find.

It's more medium to long term

oriented.

And then you sit with a situation

that if things should

run as kuna in our country,

people need to, to

keep themselves safe.

So these were some of the

main driving forces that forced

me the last seven years to help

communities, to establish the

community safety zones,

community safety organisations.

And we see that as sort of the

empowerment of our people for

self-protection.

But it's also about coping and

control, helping

people to to become

more confident, to become more

resilient and to trust

the Heavenly Father.

Because I believe that the easiest

solution for our country, we have

good people in this country that we

are all striving for, for.

For peace, and I hope that

the politicians can

sort out the mess.

And let's see what happens with

the run up to the 29th May

election and what is going to happen

after that.

Let's hope for the best.

Do you have any thoughts on the

possible outcome of the election?

Well, I think I'm the I'm

I'm not the right person to ask,

but I must say from our

from my heart, I hope the ANC

does not well

or,

muster sufficient.

Voices for them to

remain in power because

I don't have trust in conditions

with relations being full.

I don't have a lot of trust in

politics.

Thank you.

That was retired General Roland

Defries, the former deputy chief of

the South African Army, speaking to

business about the likelihood

of anarchy in this election year.

I'm Christine.

Thank you general.