PTR Palanivel Thiagarajan |"மதங்களை வைத்து பிரிக்க நினைத்தால் தென்னிந்தியாவில் பலிக்காது" PTR அதிரடி

Summary

The speaker, a state politician and former minister, expresses his views on the current Indian government, emphasizing the importance of federalism and the need for more equitable distribution of resources. He discusses the economic growth of India in comparison to China, highlighting the missed opportunities for growth post-pandemic and the importance of translating national pride into tangible improvements in the quality of life for citizens. The politician also addresses the challenges of one-party rule and the value of diverse voices in democracy. He further elaborates on the cultural differences between the southern and northern states of India, attributing the south's higher per capita income to factors such as social inclusion, women's empowerment, and historical seafaring culture. The discussion also touches on the impact of political alliances and the recent breakup between the AIADMK and BJP, with the speaker expressing surprise at the decision but acknowledging the unpredictable nature of politics.

Takeaways

• 🎓 **Education Empowerment**: Empowering women through education has been a significant factor in the South's development, with a focus on equal rights and access to opportunities.
• 🌐 **Global Outlook**: Historically, the South has been more outward-looking and global in perspective, which has contributed to its economic growth and adaptability to liberalization.
• 📈 **Economic Growth**: The South has capitalized on liberalization and globalization, leveraging its infrastructure, educated workforce, and English-speaking population to accelerate economic progress.
• 🏛️ **Social Inclusion**: Early legislation in the Madras Presidency advocating for social justice and equal rights has laid a foundation for the region's inclusive society.
• 🔄 **Opportunity Cost**: There is a concern about missed opportunities for growth, especially post-pandemic, where India could have done more to attract investment and replace China as a global trade partner.
• 🚧 **Infrastructure Development**: While pride and national infrastructure projects like highways and airports are commendable, the focus should be on their tangible impact on people's quality of life.
• 🤝 **Federalism and Unity**: There is a debate on the balance between national-level decision-making for reforms and the need for more federalism to allow states to self-govern according to their unique needs and conditions.
• 📊 **Per Capita GDP Disparity**: The South's higher per capita income is linked to better education levels, social justice, and gender equality, which are lacking in some northern states despite economic progress.
• 👥 **Cultural Differences**: The South's culture, which values social inclusion and empowerment, is seen as a key differentiator from the North, where religion and politics often intersect in ways that may not align with the South's values.
• 🗳️ **Political Accountability**: The speaker believes in the wisdom of the voters, who are expected to make choices based on the track record of politicians and their perception of what is beneficial for them.
• 🔍 **Democracy and Decision-Making**: There is an emphasis on the importance of devolving power to local authorities to increase accountability and the vibrancy of democracy, as opposed to centralizing authority.

Q & A

What are the in-laws' feelings about the speaker meeting the interviewee?

The in-laws are very proud and happy that the speaker is meeting the interviewee, as they are big fans of the interviewee.

Why does the speaker mention being obsessed with the interviewee's interviews?

The speaker has been following the interviewee's statements in articles and interviews for a long time, and after chairing a session and watching many of the interviewee's interviews, the speaker has become obsessed.

What is the speaker's concern regarding the growth and development of India?

The speaker is concerned about the opportunity cost, especially in the last few years after the pandemic, and feels that India could be doing more to capitalize on global demand for investment and trade.

How does the speaker view the current state of equity, inclusion, and harmony in India?

The speaker sees worse outcomes than expected in terms of equity, inclusion, and harmony, with social strife being observed, and is concerned that the government's pride and propaganda may be substituting for actual improvements in these areas.

What is the speaker's opinion on the effectiveness of the Modi government's policies?

The speaker believes that while there is a lot of rhetoric and pride associated with the Modi government, there is not enough delivery, and the policies are too divisive and not yielding the expected results.

What does the speaker think is the key to a thriving democracy?

The speaker believes that devolving power to those who can be held accountable, such as local bodies, is key to a thriving democracy.

Why does the speaker argue that one economic policy cannot suit all states in India?

The speaker argues that the disparities in outcomes and problems among states, as well as the accelerated gap between states post-liberalization, necessitate different solutions and policies tailored to each state's unique circumstances.

What is the speaker's view on the role of religion in South Indian society?

The speaker believes that while South Indian society is deeply religious, the region has managed to democratize religion, preventing it from being weaponized for political purposes.

How does the speaker explain the higher per capita income in the South compared to other regions?

The speaker attributes the higher per capita income in the South to factors such as a culture of social inclusion, empowerment of women, and an outward-looking, seafaring society that has historically been more globally connected.

What is the speaker's perspective on the recent alliance between the DMK and the BJP?

The speaker expresses surprise at the DMK's decision to break off the alliance with the BJP, given the BJP's past support which contributed to political stability.

What does the speaker suggest as the solution to the issues of delimitation and representation in India?

The speaker suggests that if the Union's role is limited to key areas like defense and foreign affairs, then the number of MPs from each state should not matter as all interests would be aligned across states.

Outlines

00:00

😀 Introduction and Meeting with a Prominent Figure

The speaker begins by expressing their in-laws' pride, as they are meeting a well-known individual who has a significant influence on their opinions. The speaker, having been a state minister in Tamil Nadu, acknowledges the power of the individual's words and ideas. They discuss the importance of federalism and the need for constructive debate. The speaker also addresses the Modi government's achievements and challenges, focusing on national pride, infrastructure development, and the need for tangible improvements in people's quality of life.

05:00

😐 Critique of Government Performance and Federalism

The speaker elaborates on their concerns about the government's performance, particularly regarding economic growth and its comparison with China. They discuss the missed opportunities for growth post-pandemic and the importance of equity, inclusion, and harmony. The speaker argues against the use of pride as a substitute for actual job creation and better living conditions. They also touch upon the challenges of one-party rule and the benefits of a democratic approach with multiple voices contributing to policy-making.

10:02

🌐 The Role of Local and State Governance

The speaker emphasizes the importance of local governance and self-determination, stating that decisions about local issues should be made by local authorities. They discuss the role of the union government in India and the need for a balance between national and local decision-making. The speaker also highlights the diversity within India and how different states have unique challenges that may not be addressed by a one-size-fits-all policy.

15:05

📈 Economic Disparity and the Southern Model of Governance

The speaker explores the reasons behind the higher per capita income in South India, attributing it to factors such as an outward-looking society, a history of social inclusion, and the empowerment of women. They discuss the impact of liberalization and globalization on the region's growth and the importance of education and English proficiency in leveraging these opportunities. The speaker also addresses the religious diversity and tolerance in South India and how it contrasts with political strategies in the North.

20:05

🤔 The Impact of Religion on Politics

The speaker reflects on the role of religion in politics, distinguishing between belief in God and the use of religion as a political tool. They argue against the weaponization of religion and for a model of belief that promotes kindness and compassion. The speaker also discusses the potential for a united South Indian political block, given the commonalities among the southern states, but acknowledges the importance of state autonomy and the challenges of centralization.

25:06

🏛️ Federalism, Redistribution, and Political Alliances

The speaker discusses the concept of federalism in the context of India, addressing the need for states to collaborate on a common agenda, especially when facing challenges to their rights. They highlight the issue of unequal redistribution of resources and the negative impact on development. The speaker also touches upon the importance of devolution of power to local bodies for increased accountability and democratic vibrancy. Lastly, they express their reluctance to predict election outcomes, emphasizing the role of voters in shaping governance.

🤷‍♂️ Surprises in Political Alliances and Predictions

The speaker expresses surprise at the recent break in political alliances, particularly between the AIADMK and the BJP, given the past support provided by the latter. They acknowledge the unpredictable nature of politics and refrain from making specific predictions about election outcomes. The speaker maintains a stance of neutrality, suggesting that the government elected by the people is a reflection of their collective will.

Keywords

💡Federalism

Federalism refers to a system of government in which power is divided between a central authority and constituent political units, such as states or provinces. In the video, the speaker discusses the importance of federalism in the context of India, emphasizing the need for both national unity and state autonomy. The speaker argues that certain policies should be decided at the national level, like foreign trade and currency stability, while others should be determined at the state or local level.

💡GDP per capita

GDP per capita stands for Gross Domestic Product per capita and is a measure of a country's economic output per person. The video discusses the comparison between India and China's GDP per capita, highlighting the growth disparity and the opportunity cost for India in the global market. The speaker uses this term to express concern over India's economic growth and its potential.

💡Infrastructure

Infrastructure refers to the basic physical and organizational structures needed for the operation of a society or enterprise, such as transportation, water and power systems. The video mentions the Modi government's focus on infrastructure development, including highways, metros, and airports, as part of their achievements. However, the speaker questions whether this infrastructure development translates into tangible improvements in the quality of life for citizens.

💡

💡Social strife

Social strife refers to conflicts or tension within a society, often due to inequality or injustice. In the video, the speaker expresses concern over increasing social strife and the potential use of national pride as a substitute for addressing deeper social issues. The term is used to critique the government's approach to social harmony and inclusion.

💡Propaganda

Propaganda is information, often biased or misleading, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view. The speaker in the video suggests that the government may be using propaganda to generate a sense of national pride without substantial delivery on social and economic fronts. The term is used critically to imply a disconnect between the government's messaging and actual outcomes.

💡Democracy

Democracy is a system of government where power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or through elected representatives. The video emphasizes the importance of democracy in allowing for diverse voices and opinions to be heard. The speaker contrasts democratic decision-making with one-party rule, advocating for a democratic approach that allows for adjustments and recalibrations based on feedback and outcomes.

💡Investment

Investment refers to the allocation of money or resources with the expectation of achieving a profit or benefit in the future. The video discusses the impact of political stability and policy consistency on attracting foreign investment. The speaker argues that unpredictability in policy and rule of law can deter investors, which is a concern for economic growth and job creation.

💡Per capita income

Per capita income is the average income earned per person in a given area, usually calculated annually. The video script contrasts the per capita income of different Indian states, such as Tamil Nadu and Bihar, to illustrate economic disparities and the need for varied economic policies. The term is integral to the speaker's argument for state-specific solutions and the importance of state autonomy within a federal structure.

💡Religion

Religion is a system of beliefs and practices often involving worship of a divine being or beings. The video discusses the role of religion in South Indian culture and politics. The speaker differentiates between belief in God, which can promote kindness and compassion, and the misuse of religion for political division. The term is used to explore the cultural differences between regions in India and their impact on political dynamics.

💡Delimitation

Delimitation refers to the process of defining the boundaries of electoral constituencies. The video touches on the issue of delimitation in India, particularly the frozen population-based delimitations that have not been updated for decades. The speaker argues that this outdated system can lead to an uneven democracy and a misrepresentation of certain regions, such as the South, in the national parliament.

💡Accountability

Accountability is the obligation of an individual or organization to account for its activities, take responsibility for them, and to be transparent and answerable for them. In the video, the speaker stresses the importance of direct accountability in democracy, particularly at the local level where elected officials are more accessible to their constituents. The term is used to advocate for the devolution of power to local bodies to enhance the responsiveness and effectiveness of governance.

Highlights

The speaker's in-laws are proud because they are big fans of the person being interviewed

The speaker has been following the interviewee's work in articles and interviews for a long time

The interviewee's voice is heard more than many Union ministers due to the power of their words and ideas

The speaker challenges the interviewee on criticisms of the Modi government

The interviewee argues that pride and propaganda are not enough - outcomes and improving people's lives matter more

India has not seen the same level of growth as China, even after decades of economic reforms

The interviewee expresses concern about the lack of growth and opportunity cost for India in recent years

Propaganda and pride may be used as a substitute for delivering better jobs and quality of life

The interviewee criticizes the government for divisive rhetoric and not enough delivery on key issues

The interviewee argues that one-party rule, like in China, has downsides and is not a model for India

Democracy allows for diverse voices and the ability to adjust and recalibrate policies as needed

Certain policies should be made at the national level, but others should be determined more locally

The South has higher per capita income due to factors like education, social justice, and empowering women

The South has a different culture and history compared to the North, with a more outward-looking perspective

Religion has been democratized in the South, with people free to follow their faith without conflict

The South has not thought of itself as a unified block, but may need to start considering a common agenda

The speaker has faith in the voters of Tamil Nadu to make thoughtful, rational choices based on the information available

The speaker does not make political predictions, believing that people get the government they deserve

Transcripts

uh welcome and I must say my in-laws are

very proud today uh because I'm married

to a tam million as many know and uh

they are big fans of yours so they're

the most happy that I'm I'm meeting you

uh so hello mother-in-law if you're

watching this on TV um I've been uh I

have

been following what you been saying in

articles in interviews even well before

I was chairing this session and since

last two days I'm obsessed I've seen my

YouTube is only recommending you now

because I've seen every interview you do

have a lot of

opinions uh you were state minister in

Tamil Nadu but I think your voice is

heard more than many Union ministers

also it's true it's true and that is uh

because of the power of your words

that's because the power of your ideas

but I think because in a platform like

this is good to challenge them so we'll

talk about federalism but I I want to

just get right into it

you have lot of views on the Modi

government a

lot now let me just play Devil's

Advocate they'll say I mean amongst the

millions of people who do vote for the

BJP and and also the government s say

listen you've given Pride you've given

you national pride you've given you

Hindu Pride you've given you

infrastructure we're making highways we

made metros we're making airports we

have

schemes Ula aush we have schemes we have

lifted profile of India G20 this that

what is so wrong in that I mean what

what what's so bad I mean can't you just

like appreciate that what you're doing

and and on the other hand you find a lot

of things wrong in the way the

government is run or at least you don't

feel it's the best way to do

things how do you counter this like

pride is there you know growth is there

everything is there now life is

good well uh uh Pride may be there I'm

not sure growth is there so let me put

maybe three points one if you look back

to 1990 I'm not talking about like you

know centuries I'm talking about 30 plus

years ago India and China had roughly

the same GDP per capita right scaling

for the

population there was a uh what we' call

in the markets a global trade which

basically said almost all manufacturing

could be done cheaply and efficiently

and quickly in China in return China was

making lots of profits it was driving

huge investment into its infrastructure

into its economy as well as becoming the

kind of Reserve buyer of the world

buying all these dollars and bonds and

euros and all the stuff and they

accelerated in a way that has made their

per capita GDP about three times R

now you can't get the same kind of

discipline and focus and so forth in a

democracy that you can get in a

communist country which which is

effectively run by one party rule I

agree but at some point we should be

seeing that kind of growth because

that's what our demographics and our

curve should look like so the first

concern I have is the opportunity cost

especially in the last two three years

after pandemic when there is a global

demand for investment locations when

there is a global demand for a trading

partner to replace China that we should

be doing a lot more and could be doing a

lot more and it should show in the

results pride is good but it has to

translate into actual Improvement of

quality of life for people before it's

meaningful otherwise it's just

propaganda right anybody can drive

propaganda outcomes matter so that's my

first concern my second concern is that

I see the propaganda and the pride as a

substitute in a lot of places we are

seeing much much worse outcomes than we

should in terms of equity inclusion

Harmony you know we're seeing social

strife and so forth and I'm almost uh uh

what can I say afraid that this kind of

pride is a substitute for I can't give

you better jobs I can't give you a

better life but you can feel better

because you're above this some you know

in the hierarchy above somebody else and

this kind of disparity and these are

correlated problems because the more you

have

unstable the decision of one person or

one party can change the rule of law or

the rate of tax

or the direction of investment or the

allocation of coal blocks the less

likely that outside investors see this

as a Level Playing Field and less likely

they're going to come both of us have

been in the world of Finance the less

likely they're going to come and invest

in a place where they can't predict what

path outcomes can take so collectively

all of this together I would say too

much rhetoric too much of it is divisive

and not enough delivery I can

encapsulate that in just one uh instance

a good friend of mine tamilan by birth

uh expatriate for

many area uh you may have known him but

I don't want to give his name he came to

Chennai recently after the visit of the

Prime Minister to uh the US and the

visit of the White House and all that

stuff and we we were at a dinner and he

was telling me it felt so good and we

got the seat at the table and you know

we had a State dinner and so I let him

speak for about five or eight minutes

and then I said how many trades came out

of it how many deals came out of it how

many Investments came out of it how is

that going to create more job

opportunity and how many young people

are going to benefit you tell me that I

get excited he happens to come and make

you in India as an expatriate feel

happier and proud that's okay but that's

not really enough excitement for me I

want to see that something concrete came

out of it extra 10 billion extra billion

you know five more companies three more

jobs more free trade something that

results so that's where I would say the

Gap is between me and most people who

think that the government is doing good

job okay you you're self acknowledged

just now in your um argument only that

China's per capita GDP went higher

because if it you have one party you

have one like certain structure in which

you can just make decisions fast uh it

leads to higher per capit income and now

they more than triple of ours I think

it's more than more like four five times

but isn't that the opposite of the

federalism you arguing about in a way

big reform right big National reform

like GST like some major FDI policy

change like any of these big reforms

requires a certain National level

Authority National level of decision

making which is needed on one hand you

have batted vehemently for more

federalism there is federalism it's not

like we are not a federal state you you

have batted for it so much on the other

hand there's the question of national

unity and unity in terms of policymaking

when you talk of investors if every

state there was a time where like

companies were moving plants from Bengal

to Gujarat they're getting kicked out of

one state they're getting kicked out of

another state they're deciding all that

is happening whereas if there is a

national I mean the our counterargument

can be that at at a certain level we

need to present One National policy that

that may not be a bad

thing I don't know there's three or four

questions there so let's unpack that let

me start with the beginning the problem

with one decision making or one party

rule is that the odds of getting it

exactly right are exactly zero so even

if you take China while they had Decades

of tremendous growth now they're paying

the price for it because they've got

overbuilding all their major companies

are going going bankrupt they have this

unofficial credit Market that is

collapsing and there's going to be

serious consequences and pain and there

was a lot of suppression of dissent and

and opinions in the process of getting

there so I for one I'm not saying I want

to see growth at that cost so let me be

very clear I'm not advocating that model

I'm saying I can explain some of the Gap

based on the fact that it's a different

model the second point though is that

there is very little likely Ood that

there is a you know all knowing

allseeing Authority that's the reality

of most human beings we are limited

individuals the notion of democracy is

that a thousand voices should be heard

we should take inputs from everybody and

then we should try and figure out a

policy and then if it doesn't work we

should be able to calibrate recalibrate

and readjust right not because I say so

this is the only way going forward there

are certain things that should be done

at a national level things like foreign

trade things like currency stability

things like international relations

things like regulating of interstate

commerce but if you're going to dictate

things like social policy about who

should get fed and who should you know

get get educated what this is very very

difficult to do in any large country in

the world it doesn't happen in China

despite it being communist they set

macroeconomic policies at the Central

polit Bureau but the city of Shanghai

gives out industrial permits decides

what the environmental rules are runs

its own police force runs its own

Pollution Control Board you know the

city I'm not talking about the state big

Banks like mine I work for a large

International Bank has to get licenses

Province by province there is no pan

China banking license for an

International Bank you have to get state

by state go to the US you go to even

developed countries like Switzerland the

Canton decides whether you can become a

prime permanent resident or a citizen or

not that that County right so all over

the world the notion of democracy is

inextricably linked with the notion of

self-determination move the power closer

to the people not you know three degre

separated who's going to decide how the

water system should work right the water

system should be decided by the local

Authority the corporation of madur then

there's some that should be decided by

the state some things that should be

decided by the union so of course

there's a role for the union but it

cannot be all knowing all

seeing dat how the rest of the country

should work especially in a country like

India that is so diverse you know better

than me the country is diverse not just

because it was broken into States

linguistically not just because it has

different people going back thousands of

years but in the last 50 years forget

the last 50 years in the last 30 years

from liberalization till now the gap

between states has accelerated so drama

atically the per capita income of Tamil

Nadu is four times that of Bihar how is

the same Economic Policy going to be

valid for both of us right yeah we we

have we have disparate outcomes we have

disparate problems we need disparate

Solutions it's very unlikely that one

policy is going to suit everybody in

this country what I actually had that

question why is the South per capita

income much higher are you guys just

smarter no no well I don't think so I I

was no no I was at a conclave um in

Bangalore over the weekend and I was

asked is there a Southern model of

governance and I said I think there is

but if there is a southern model of

governance it's because it's a southern

kind of culture and Society right

because governance is not thrust Upon Us

governance comes based on the people who

elect us and what they expect us to

deliver as elected officials so what is

it that makes the Southern Culture a bit

different right and I think that's so

I'll work backwards we got better

outcomes because we have different

governance we have different governance

because we have a different society and

I can think of at least three components

and this is just you know what I thought

off the top of my head one over

thousands of years we have been a

seafaring outward looking kind of

society right from the the Chola Kingdom

had reached all the way to Laos and

Cambodia so and and you know now in in

the Mad Kil dig we found Roman coins

dating back to you know few hundred BC

so we had always been an international

Outlook kind of global perspective uh

Society much unlike the people who are

getting invaded all the time from the

north and who are very defensive and you

know mind's mind and you stay on that

side more recently about 100 years ago

when all of this was The Madras

presidency this was one of the few

presidencies that was not a congress

government it was a Justice party

government and they ad advocated and and

legislated equal rights for women

compulsory education for all elementary

education back in

1921 communal reservation based on what

percentage of your Society so that every

Community could have a judge and a

collector and a police officer and a a

lawyer so this kind of social inclusion

and empowerment spread across what was

then Madras presidency which is much of

South India except the princely states

it started somewhere in norisa came down

to kanyakumari and went past Bangalore

almost to Bombay so I think that social

justice inclusion empowerment of women

and and i' for if I had to pick one

thing I'd say empowerment of women

giving women equal rights relatively I'm

not saying it's perfect but relatively

equal rights and equal access was

probably one of the driving factors and

then the third thing is what I said

earlier when we did liberalization when

we did globalization in 1990 that's when

the gap really started to accelerate

because what we had was the building

blocks we had the infrastructure to

benefit from this liberalization and

this opening up we had the right mindset

we had the right education levels we had

a lot of English speaking people we had

a lot of connectivity with diaspora who

had immigrated from here and we were

able to leverage that liberalization and

just accelerate up the curve in the case

of Chennai in automobiles in the case of

Bangalore and technology and we were

able to just climb and get to a

different level

and the places that didn't have that

kind of background I think we're not

able to get it that would be my you know

if I had to pick uh few reasons those

would be my reasons yeah that's good I

think and I think the north does have

and I generally mean that a lot to learn

from here I this is a question I'm going

to ask my other panelists as well is

what it's my Natural Curiosity the south

is deeply religious it's very religious

rituals motives temples everything

everywhere

yet hinda politics doesn't work as well

as it does in the north especially when

religion has such so much meaning is it

what is your views on it is it something

to do with because the incomes are

higher but then even in higher per

capita income states in the north it

works quite well some of

them just what is what is your why is it

why doesn't it work as well or is it

just a matter of time uh I want to quote

something my grandfather said back in

the 19 1920s or 30s he said many

people conflate God and religion right a

lot of things are done in the name of

religion which are actually not

compassionate not Humane not

thoughtful and what if God and religion

were the same then attributing all those

things back to God is actually

Blasphemous on God so what I what I

would say is we are

believe in my

constituency if you go down a street

there are probably 10 temples on every

street some of them are private some of

them are owned by the the state because

they were without a clear lineage of

descendants but belief in God doesn't

mean putting somebody else down doesn't

mean that I have to be superior to

somebody so in fact Anna said it per

Anna the founder of our party former

Chief Minister he said to the extent

that a belief in God makes a human being

want to live a better life he fears or

she fears that they accountable to some

other being and one day will have to pay

you know the price for their actions it

actually makes them better persons and

more kind and gentle to their fellow

human beings and in that sense it's not

a bad thing belief can be a good thing

if it makes them calmer gentler nicer

that I think is a South Indian model of

belief I don't think this politics of

weaponizing religion or using religion

to divide people is likely to take hold

anytime soon here mostly because we have

democratized religion if you look back

at least in The Madras presidency and

Tamil Nadu across all parties I give

Equal Credit to the Congress to the

Justice party DMK admk we have

democratized religion and removed the

kind of weaponizing features of it so

that anybody can follow their faith in

their own way without having to conflict

with anybody else okay that's that's

good

do you think these the four Southern

States right they are all very five oh

yes now five sorry I'm my bad telengana

and yes yes after updated yes five

southern states all the more now they

are five while they're all very

different

cultures there is some commonality one

is I think higher per capita

incomes and second is they are all

ignored by the North and the center more

than some of the other St for various

reasons seats what gets to power but

there is no central

body there's no like you know you have a

G20 or a bricks there's no S5 or SS you

know there's nothing which represents

the common cause do you think there is

room for something like that do you

think something like that can actually

make the the voice stronger because

there is

like from the North many people don't

even know the differences in the various

cultures but there is a lot of

difference but there is still a lot of

common elements which justifies having a

block like this what do you

think look I think the higher per capita

GDP is a direct result of a higher

education level weighted average which

is a direct result of Greater inclusion

and social justice and a direct result

of more empowerment of women I think

these are inextricably linked if I had

to pick one variable I would say just

compare the percentage of girls getting

out of elementary school then middle

school then high school then getting

into jobs what age they get married what

age they have their first child these

are the variables that separate the

south from the less developed parts and

surprisingly even from a state like

Gujarat which is developed economically

but socially these indicators are very

bad so then the question is why have we

not really thought about ourselves as a

block because we are the same patriotic

citizens as anybody else and we were

thinking of ourselves really as state to

Center relations incidentally in my view

though I lived abroad for 30 years and I

have not lived outside Tamil Nadu so you

have to take it with the limitations of

my knowledge but if you ask me to pick

in my memory the four greatest

Federalists of all time in India in 75

years

per Kanger

Ki Miss J Alita and T Narendra Modi

greatest Federalist of all time till he

was chief minister of Gujarat till he

was chief minister of Gujarat he was one

of the greatest Federalists of all time

now of course the different story so now

I'm saying if federalism in terms of

states right is is being kind of uh

gutted and is being disemboweled then

maybe the states need to start thinking

together about what is a common agenda

and I'm saying first all states compared

to the union second of course those

states that because of this we have this

real tragedy in our country right like

let me give you the math math of it in

every country in every Federal Society

those that are better off will

contribute more and those that are less

well off will get more from the central

port what happens go yes but most places

in the world that contribution or

redistribution that's what we do with

taxation right within our state we take

more money from those who can pay and we

give it to those who cannot but all

those are supposed to bring people

people closer together this kind of

redistributive function whether it's the

union relative to the states the state

relative to the districts the state

relative to individuals the state

relative to cities but if you look at

India for the last 25 years particularly

the last five Finance commissions the

distributions have kept on getting worse

and

worse less they give back the Richer we

get the more they give to the poorer

States the poorer they get on a relative

basis so it's like throwing money down a

well you're giving this redistribution

in America it helps Montana and Missouri

come up if you take it from New York and

California in China if you take it from

the coastal provinces put it in the

hinter land it helps the hinter land

come up in India we keep on sending the

money and it doesn't do anything in fact

it makes things worse so now the

question is if you're going to go to uh

real democracy you have two basic

problems the first problem most of us in

the South are paying out a lot more

getting out are getting back a lot less

and it's on a trajectory that is going

to become more and more problematic the

second problem because we have Frozen

populationbased delimitations for 50

years starting first with the 42nd

Amendment during emergency then the 84th

Amendment under taj's uh Prime

ministership we are going to find

ourselves in a situation in 26 where

either we are going to now redistrict in

which case States like Tamil Nadu are

going to lose or Kerala the South will

probably lose like 20 or 30 MPS out of

its already small pool because our

populations have you know come much

lower and then the the the the poorer

weaker parts of the country that are

already getting the most money are going

to get many more MPS or you're going to

continue a situation where it's an

uneven democracy where every one and a

half million people in Tamil Nadu or

slightly less in Kerala have an MP but

every 2.1 million people in up have an

MP right so neither of these is a is a

good outcome so at the end I think

history teaches us that when you get

Economic Development one of the things

you should do is devolve Powers right we

did some of that right only after the

1990s we got the payti Raj act we

created the third tier of government we

started devolving Powers since we came

to office two years ago after the six

State Finance commission we've increased

that Devolution we've made the funds go

directly to the local bodies so just as

we say we want Evolution from the union

to us we at the state need to De devolve

from us to the local bodies because the

accountability of elected officials is

the highest at the local body right m

city councelor cannot Escape their

voters because they live in the same 10

streets it's like 8,000 of them I have

250,000 voters right if they really want

to see me it's going to be hard for me

to see everybody in a year even and my

mp has 1 and a half million voters the

odds of direct accountability is very

low in fact I would say one one of the

reasons why the UK

democracy maybe not so now but used to

be so vibrant is that the average MP has

something like 50,000 voters yeah so you

can hold them accountable right so the

more you devolve power to those that can

be held accountable the more thriving a

democracy you'll have the less you'll

have a problem with this kind of

devolution I mean with this delimitation

if the Union's only going to take care

of defense and money management and

Foreign Affairs and you know interstate

trade and these kinds of things surely

all of us want the same thing what does

it matter if I have X MPS or X plus 5

MPS all our interests are aligned across

all states if you start saying they get

to decide how the money split between

the states then it bothers me a lot if

I'm going to have few MPS right that's

that's a good point it's election season

so before I let you go what does it look

like here they've been alliances they've

been broken alliances you probably been

seeing the news

uh what do what do you and not just for

the South even for the national politics

I think you're very eligible to comment

on that how how do you think it's going

to play out in here in this state and in

pan India I know there's a lot of time

left still and I know you can nobody can

predict what will happen but your

current view if it were to happen today

I spent a lot of my career in the

financial markets right and as you know

if there are hundred variables that

drive price action or yield curves at

best you can look at 20 so it's a mugs

game to try and predict outcomes if you

were that smart you'd be much richer

both of us than we are now so I'm not

going to make predictions I'll just say

it uh in a kind of positive way and in a

kind of neutralizing equilibrium way the

positive way I'll say is at the end of

the day the

voters are sophisticated enough I think

about their self-interest at least the

more educated they are the more

sophisticated they are in making their

choices and uh I remember my own we all

shaped or limited only by our experience

I can't imagine things beyond what I've

read or seen or or done right so in my

experience the first time I ran for MLA

I was an unknown face I had a legacy I

had something I won by 4% or something

but it was about a 5% margin to the

state average for my part

I did what I thought was good work for 5

years 5 years later I won by 23

something per and it was about 15% or

18% better than my

state I did got me the result that I got

so I have this faith in the water at

least the voter that I know in Tamil

Nadu that they are thoughtful rational

people who will make choices based on

the information the track record and

their perception of of what is good for

them that's the positive way of looking

at

it the kind of neutralizing equilibrium

is I mean what does it matter what I

think the people get the government they

elect and the government they deserve

whatever they decide is the wisdom of

the people we just live with the

consequences however that affects us so

I'm not in the election prediction game

I'm relatively sanguin in my state that

I think I know how the V will act and

how they will vote how how do you think

it's going to

be the track record of the last few

years gives me Comfort I think we're

going to be okay yeah and how is the

overall I and I don't know how to say it

actually I and Alliance no you can't I'm

I'm I'm a I'm a state politician I don't

opine on National politics I'm I'm not

qualified you just you just commented on

the no no I I can talk about the economy

I can talk about government policy

that's my day job but if you ask me to

make political predictions or analysis

at a national level I'm not equ okay

let's talk about the state level I mean

only because I don't know I don't know

what is in the mind of people in biar or

Rajasthan or jamu I why should I talk

about things I don't know fair enough

fair enough what about over here the AI

DMK just broke off an alliance with the

BJP why do you think that was that a

surprise to you why do you think that

happened and what do you think it'll

have an imp impact on the elections are

you able to answer that no I mean if I

had a good answer I'd give it to you I

don't I mean I I must say I was a bit

surprised because uh I can say from

personal experience that if it hadn't

been for the BJP it's not clear to me

the regime would have losted 5 years

after the passing of Miss jela it was a

very unstable regime I was sitting in

the assembly when a lot of funny things

happened when 11 people voted against

the government but contrary to the

anti-defection law they were never

removed from the house I can remember

Governors negotiating deals you know all

kinds of things that I didn't think were

you know ideal in a democracy happened

and therefore I assumed and uh thought

that people who had benefited would stay

with the people who had given them the

benefit so I was a bit surprised but and

then who am I you know politics makes

for strange B fellows Everything Changes

all the time

[Music]

yeah

h