‘This is an emergency’ - Chris van Tulleken on how our diet is killing us

Summary

El texto proporcionado es una conversación profunda y preocupante sobre los efectos negativos de los alimentos ultraprocesados en nuestra salud. El autor, Chris van Tulleken, aborda el tema argumentando que estos alimentos, diseñados para maximizar la ganancia, han causado un daño significativo a nuestra salud, contribuyendo a la obesidad, la diabetes tipo 2, las enfermedades cardiovasculares y otros problemas de salud relacionados con la dieta. La discusión destaca la importancia de la regulación y la conciencia de los consumidores sobre la naturaleza de estos productos y su impacto en la sociedad. Además, se explora la responsabilidad de las corporaciones y la necesidad de cambios en la política alimentaria para proteger la salud pública.

Takeaways

• 🍽️ **Ultra procesado vs procesado**: Los alimentos ultra procesados son una categoría formal distinta de los alimentos procesados, los cuales incluyen aditivos y emulsificantes que no se encuentran en una cocina doméstica.
• 📈 **Influencia en la salud**: Los alimentos ultra procesados están asociados con una serie de problemas de salud, incluyendo obesidad, diabetes tipo 2, enfermedades cardíacas y cáncer.
• 🧪 **Efectos en el microbioma**: Los aditivos, especialmente los edulcorantes artificiales, pueden afectar el microbioma, lo que a su vez puede influir en la inflamación y la salud general.
• 🌟 **Mercadeo engañoso**: Muchos productos ultra procesados se promocionan como saludables o bajos en grasas, pero esto puede ser engañoso ya que a menudo contienen ingredientes que no son naturales.
• 💰 **Conflictos de interés**: Las grandes corporaciones alimenticias financian a muchas organizaciones y charities, lo que puede llevar a una promoción y normalización de los alimentos ultra procesados.
• 🚫 **Regulación necesaria**: Se hace necesario un cambio en la regulación y políticas públicas para limitar la influencia de las corporaciones alimenticias y promover una dieta más saludable.
• 👨‍👩‍👧‍👦 **Desafíos familiares**: Los padres enfrentan dificultades para hacer frente a las preferencias de los niños influenciadas por los alimentos procesados y la cultura alimentaria actual.
• 🌱 **Alimentación saludable**: Se aboga por una dieta basada en alimentos no procesados o minimamente procesados, preparados en casa, para mejorar la salud y reducir el consumo de alimentos ultra procesados.
• 🛒 **Economía y acceso**: La disponibilidad y el costo de los alimentos saludables son un desafío para muchas familias, y se necesita una solución que aborde estas barreras.
• 🧘‍♀️ **Conciencia y cambio de hábitos**: El cambio en la alimentación comienza con la conciencia sobre los efectos de los alimentos ultra procesados en la salud y el desarrollo de nuevos hábitos alimentarios.
• 🌟 **Importancia de la educación**: La educación alimentaria es crucial para que las personas puedan tomar decisiones informadas sobre su dieta y para cambiar las normas culturales en torno a la alimentación.

Q & A

¿Qué es la alimentación ultra procesada?

La alimentación ultra procesada es una categoría formal de alimentos definida hace aproximadamente 10 años. Se caracteriza por contener al menos un ingrediente que no se encuentra normalmente en una cocina doméstica, como gomas de xantana, emulsificantes, saborizantes, edulcorantes naturales o artificiales, y suelen estar envueltas en plástico.

¿Por qué la alimentación ultra procesada es problemática para nuestra salud?

La alimentación ultra procesada es problemática porque su textura suave y su alta densidad energética pueden llevar a un consumo excesivo que el cuerpo no logra compensar adecuadamente. Además, contiene aditivos que pueden afectar nuestro microbioma, nuestra fisiología interna y están asociados con enfermedades metabólicas, como la obesidad, la diabetes tipo 2 y enfermedades cardiovasculares.

¿Cómo ha cambiado la alimentación en el Reino Unido desde la década de 1980?

Desde la década de 1980, la alimentación ultra procesada ha sido una parte importante de la dieta en el Reino Unido y ha ido en aumento. Se ha convertido en la principal causa de la pandemia de obesidad y ha tenido un impacto significativo en la salud pública.

¿Por qué la industria alimentaria promueve la alimentación ultra procesada?

La industria alimentaria promueve la alimentación ultra procesada debido a la presión por el crecimiento financiero. Estos productos están diseñados para ser quasi-adictivos y extraer dinero de los consumidores, lo que resulta en un consumo excesivo.

¿Qué papel juegan los aditivos en la alimentación ultra procesada?

Los aditivos son solo una parte del problema. Sirven para reconocer la comida y pueden incluir emulsificantes, saborizantes y edulcorantes. Aunque son una preocupación para los consumidores, son solo una pequeña parte de los problemas que presenta la alimentación ultra procesada.

¿Cómo afecta la alimentación ultra procesada el comportamiento alimentario de las personas?

La alimentación ultra procesada puede ser aditiva para algunas personas. Se ha demostrado que ciertas personas desarrollan una dependencia de ciertos alimentos ultra procesados, lo que hace que sea difícil para ellos detener el consumo.

¿Qué sugiere Chris para lidiar con la adicción a los alimentos ultra procesados?

Chris sugiere que algunas personas pueden encontrar útil abstenerse de los alimentos ultra procesados si reconocen una tendencia adictiva hacia ellos. Propone leer su libro mientras se consume estos alimentos, lo que podría llevar a que algunas personas se sientan incómodas y no puedan continuar consumiendolos.

¿Por qué la regulación de la alimentación ultra procesada es importante?

La regulación es importante porque la alimentación ultra procesada ha demostrado ser la principal causa de muerte temprana en la Tierra. Se necesita acción para limitar la publicidad y etiquetar adecuadamente los productos, así como para promover una mayor conciencia y cambio cultural.

¿Cómo podría cambiar la percepción pública y la política en relación con la alimentación ultra procesada?

Para cambiar la percepción pública y la política, se requiere un cambio de base, donde las comunidades afectadas exijan acción y se desarrolle una nueva cultura que vea a las grandes empresas alimenticias de manera similar a las compañías tabáquicas. Esto incluiría rechazar su financiación y desarrollar políticas que favorezcan la salud pública.

¿Qué papel juegan los conflictos de interés en la regulación de la alimentación ultra procesada?

Los conflictos de interés desempeñan un papel significativo, ya que muchas organizaciones y profesionales que podrían influir en la regulación están financiadas por las mismas empresas que producen alimentos ultra procesados. Limitar estos conflictos de interés es crucial para un enfoque de regulación justo y efectivo.

¿Cómo podría la etiqueta en los productos alimenticios ayudar a la situación actual?

La etiqueta en los productos podría ayudar a informar a los consumidores sobre los riesgos asociados con la alimentación ultra procesada, similar a como se ha hecho con los productos tabáquicos. Esto podría incluir advertencias sobre la asociación con enfermedades crónicas y obesidad.

Outlines

00:00

😀 Introducción y definición de alimentos ultraprocesados

El primer párrafo presenta la discusión sobre la preocupación de la publicidad de cereales de chocolate con monos y tigres en las cajas, y cómo estos alimentos están relacionados con la obesidad y la muerte temprana. Se da la bienvenida al podcast 'Ways to change the world' y se introduce al invitado, Chris, autor del libro 'Ultra Processed'. Se definen los alimentos ultraprocesados como una categoría formal de alimentos que contienen al menos un ingrediente no typically found en una cocina doméstica, tales como gomas de xanthan, emulsificadores, saborizantes y edulcorantes. Estos alimentos están relacionados con el 60% de las calorías promedio consumidas en el Reino Unido y son la principal causa de la pandemia de obesidad.

05:02

😕 Problemas asociados con los alimentos ultraprocesados

El segundo párrafo explora los problemas que los alimentos ultraprocesados presentan más allá de los aditivos, como su textura blanda y su densidad energética, lo que lleva a un consumo excesivo. Se discute cómo los edulcorantes artificiales afectan el microbioma y la fisiología interna, y cómo los aditivos pueden influir en la microbioma, provocando inflamación y enfermedades metabólicas. Se destaca la relación entre los alimentos procesados y la obesidad, la diabetes tipo 2, las enfermedades cardiovasculares y los accidentes cerebrovasculares, y cómo la dieta pobre en ultra procesados ha superado el tabaquismo como la principal causa de muerte temprana en la Tierra.

10:04

🤔 Reflexiones sobre el propósito y la regulación de los alimentos

El tercer párrafo aborda el propósito de los alimentos y su impacto social y cultural, y cómo los alimentos ultraprocesados distorsionan estos aspectos. Se cuestiona si los alimentos ultraprocesados deberían considerarse como verdaderos alimentos, y se argumenta que su producción está motivada por el crecimiento financiero en lugar de la nutrición. Se discute la difícil situación de las familias de bajos ingresos para mantener una dieta saludable y se enfatiza la necesidad de cambios en la regulación y la política, así como la importancia de no estigmatizar a las personas con enfermedades relacionadas con la dieta.

15:05

😨 Adicción y abuso de los alimentos ultraprocesados

El cuarto párrafo examina la adicción a los alimentos ultraprocesados y cómo algunos de estos alimentos pueden ser tan adictivos como drogas, tabaco y alcohol. Se discute la evidencia científica que respalda esta adicción y se ofrece una perspectiva sobre la moderación y la abstinencia en el consumo de estos alimentos. Se comparte la experiencia personal del autor con la alimentación ultra procesada y cómo escribir el libro lo llevó a renunciar a estos alimentos. Se sugiere que los lectores prueben los alimentos ultra procesados mientras leen el libro, con la esperanza de que al final pierdan el deseo de consumirlos.

20:06

😣 El engaño de las etiquetas de 'opción saludable'

El quinto párrafo aborda el tema de las etiquetas de 'opción saludable' en los alimentos ultraprocesados y cómo estas pueden ser engañosas. Se argumenta que los alimentos que contienen afirmaciones de salud en el empaque son probablemente ultraprocesados. Se discute la diferencia entre los alimentos caseros y los comerciales, y cómo los últimos están diseñados para ser hiperpalatables y promover el consumo excesivo. Se destaca la importancia de la regulación y la necesidad de cambios en la política para abordar la adicción a los alimentos ultraprocesados.

25:06

😡 La responsabilidad de las corporaciones y la necesidad de acción

El sexto párrafo se enfoca en la responsabilidad de las corporaciones en la producción de alimentos ultraprocesados y cómo la regulación puede cambiar la situación. Se discute la influencia de las corporaciones en la política y la sociedad, y la necesidad de una transformación cultural y cambios en la base de la sociedad para demandar acción. Se sugiere que la etiquetación y la regulación de la publicidad son formas de abordar el problema, y se hace un llamado a la responsabilidad colectiva para cambiar el sistema alimentario que, según el autor, es violento para nuestros cuerpos.

30:08

🤔 Desafíos familiares y la influencia del entorno

El séptimo párrafo explora los desafíos que enfrentan los padres al intentar ofrecer una alimentación saludable a sus hijos en un mundo dominado por los alimentos ultraprocesados. Se reconoce la influencia del entorno y la cultura alimentaria en las decisiones de alimentación, y se admite la dificultad de cambiar hábitos alimentarios establecidos. Se ofrecen algunas sugerencias prácticas para reducir el consumo de alimentos ultraprocesados en el hogar y se destaca la importancia de la educación y la regulación gubernamental para promover un cambio más amplio.

35:08

😠 Conflictos de intereses y la importancia de la transparencia

El octavo y último párrafo aborda los conflictos de intereses en la industria alimentaria y la importancia de la transparencia en la financiación de la investigación y las organizaciones benéficas. Se enfatiza la necesidad de preguntar quién está financiando la información y la ciencia detrás de las recomendaciones alimentarias. Se argumenta que las personas con enfermedades relacionadas con la dieta no son responsables de su situación y se hace un llamado a la responsabilidad colectiva y a la regulación gubernamental para abordar el problema.

Keywords

💡Ultra-processed food

Ultra-processed food es una categoría formal de alimentos que incluye productos envueltos en plástico y contienen al menos un ingrediente que no se encuentra típicamente en una cocina doméstica, como por ejemplo gomas de guar, emulsificantes, saborizantes o edulcorantes. Estos alimentos están asociados con una serie de problemas de salud, incluyendo la obesidad y otras enfermedades crónicas. En el video, se discute cómo estos alimentos componen la mayoría de la dieta moderna y cómo afectan negativamente la salud pública.

💡Microbiome

El microbioma se refiere a la comunidad de bacterias y otros organismos microscópicos que viven en el cuerpo humano, incluyendo el intestino. En el video, se menciona que los edulcorantes artificiales y otros aditivos en los alimentos ultra procesados pueden tener efectos poderosos en el microbioma, lo que puede llevar a una serie de problemas de salud, como la inflamación y la obesidad.

💡

💡Food industry

La industria alimentaria es un sector que incluye a las empresas que producen, procesan y distribuyen alimentos. En el video, se critica a la industria alimentaria por su enfoque en la rentabilidad a través de la producción de alimentos ultra procesados, los cuales están relacionados con la promoción de una dieta insalubre y la propagación de enfermedades relacionadas con la alimentación.

💡Dietary change

Un cambio dietético se refiere a la modificación en los hábitos de alimentación de una persona o de una población. En el contexto del video, el autor habla sobre su propia experiencia con un cambio dietético radical, el cual lo llevó a explorar y comprender las implicaciones de consumir alimentos ultra procesados en la salud personal y pública.

💡Additives

Los aditivos son sustancias añadidas a los alimentos para mejorar su sabor, color, textura o conservación. En el video, se destaca que los aditivos en los alimentos ultra procesados son solo una parte del problema, pero son un indicador clave de por qué estos alimentos son menos saludables y cómo afectan el paladar y la fisiología interna del cuerpo.

💡Inflammation

La inflamación es un proceso del cuerpo que responde a lesiones o infecciones. En el video, se discute cómo los alimentos ultra procesados y los aditivos que contienen pueden contribuir a la inflamación crónica, la cual está asociada con una amplia gama de enfermedades, incluyendo la enfermedad cardiovascular y la diabetes tipo 2.

💡Regulation

La regulación se refiere a las leyes y reglas establecidas por las autoridades gubernamentales para controlar ciertos aspectos de la sociedad, incluyendo la calidad y la seguridad de los productos. En el video, se argumenta la necesidad de una mayor regulación en torno a los alimentos ultra procesados, sugiriendo que la industria alimentaria actualmente opera con poca supervisión y esto tiene efectos negativos en la salud pública.

💡Conflicts of interest

Un conflicto de intereses ocurre cuando una persona o una entidad tiene intereses que podrían influir en su capacidad para actuar de manera imparcial. En el video, se cuestiona la integridad de las organizaciones y profesionales de la salud que reciben financiación de la industria alimentaria, sugiriendo que esto puede llevar a recomendaciones y políticas insuficientemente rigurosas en relación con los alimentos ultra procesados.

💡Food labeling

La etiqueta de alimentos es la información presentada en el empaque de los productos alimentarios que detalla su contenido, ingredientes y a menudo información nutricional. En el video, se discute la importancia de una etiqueta clara y precisa para los alimentos ultra procesados, para que los consumidores puedan tomar decisiones informadas sobre su dieta.

💡Health claims

Las afirmaciones de salud son declaraciones que sugieren que un producto puede tener efectos beneficiosos en la salud. En el video, se señala que los alimentos ultra procesados a menudo llevan estas afirmaciones, lo que puede ser engañoso para los consumidores, ya que no reflejan la verdadera calidad nutricional del producto.

Highlights

Ultra-processed food is a formal category of foods, defined by ingredients not typically found in a domestic kitchen, such as additives like xanthan gum, emulsifiers, and artificial sweeteners.

Ultra-processed foods are engineered for financialized growth, often leading to excess consumption due to their soft texture and high energy density.

The additives in ultra-processed foods can have powerful effects on the microbiome, potentially contributing to inflammation and metabolic diseases.

Ultra-processed foods can be recognized by their health claims, which are often misleading as the food industry's purpose is financialized growth rather than health.

Ultra-processed food has become the leading cause of early death, surpassing smoking, due to its association with obesity, type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular diseases, and more.

The food industry has been resistant to change, fearing market replacement if they stop selling ultra-processed foods.

Regulation is necessary to address the health impacts of ultra-processed foods, but policy makers have been heavily influenced by the food industry.

Grassroots change and political demand are essential for initiating policy changes to regulate ultra-processed foods.

Labeling ultra-processed foods with health warnings could be a simple regulatory step towards informing consumers of potential health risks.

The food industry's marketing tactics target children, contributing to the rise in childhood obesity and diet-related diseases.

Parents struggle to control their children's diets due to the pervasive influence of ultra-processed foods in schools, social events, and even at home.

Ultra-processed foods are part of a broader trend of 'ultra-processing' in modern life, which includes technology and entertainment, making them difficult to avoid.

The book 'Ultra-processed' offers an invitation to readers to reconsider their relationship with food while they read, potentially leading to a change in eating habits.

The concept of food addiction is real for some individuals, with ultra-processed foods being as addictive as drugs of abuse, tobacco, and alcohol for certain people.

The food industry's manipulation of flavor, texture, and packaging creates an illusion of satisfaction, promoting overconsumption and contributing to poor health outcomes.

Dr. Chris van Tulleken emphasizes the importance of scrutinizing the sources of information on health and diet, questioning who funds the research and charities involved.

Regulation should focus on creating a level playing field for the food industry, allowing companies to thrive while promoting healthier food choices and reducing diet-related diseases.

Transcripts

you shouldn't have a monkey selling

chocolate cereal to kids at breakfast

time there shouldn't be a tiger on the

box you shouldn't have this stuff at the

counter this is this is gentle stuff for

what is now the leading cause of early

death for context this is an emergency

right

[Music]

hello and welcome to ways to change the

world I'm Christian Gary Murphy and this

is the podcast in which we talk to

extraordinary people about the big ideas

and their lives and the events that have

helped shape them my guest this week is

a doctor and broadcaster and now the

author of I think one of the books of

the year it's called Ultra processed

people why do we all eat stuff that

isn't food and why can't we stop

um Chris welcome it's such a pleasure to

be here um well it's great great to have

you here this has come at the right time

in my life because I'm going through a

sort of radical dietary change so I'm

absolutely fascinated by the ideas in

your book and what you're saying

um we better just lay out our terms what

we're talking about first of all

um so what what is ultra processed food

so Ultra processed food is is not an

informal term like junk food it's a

formal category of foods

the definition was developed about 10

years ago and there's a very long

scientific definition long because it

has to Encompass so many different

processes but it boils down to this if

it's wrapped in plastic and it contains

at least one ingredient that you don't

typically find in a domestic kitchen

then it's Ultra processed food so things

like xanthan gum emulsifiers flavorings

sweeteners artificial or natural

sweeteners those are all examples of

ultra processed food additives so this

is often things like ready meals that

look like stuff that you might cook

but have actually got something extra in

the way I'd think about it is for every

real food there is an ultra processed

alternative that is a better way of

extracting money from us so much of it

is obvious junk the High Street is full

of you know uh factory made Fried

Chicken and Burgers and frozen pizzas

and ice cream and almost all of that is

ultra processed but almost all of our

Supermarket bread is ultra processed all

of our fruit yogurts are Ultra processed

most almost all of our breakfast cereal

is ultra process so at the moment in the

UK it makes up about 60 of the calories

we eat on average and for a for a young

person a teen or or even a baby it can

make up uh 70 80 to 100 of their

calories so this is this is most of what

we're eating this is our national diet

and it's what what we've eaten for many

generations but well ah now that's

interesting so is it is it because I I

would assume that Ultra processed food

is a relatively new thing you know sort

of in the since the birth of convenience

and

it's new in terms of our physiology but

it's it's old in terms of our lifespan

so you and I will have grown up eating

the same breakfast cereals that our kids

do it was invented the first examples of

19th century so the replacement of

butter with margarine is a great example

of ultra processing

um that happened late 19th century but

it was with the invention of the

microwaving the home freezer and and the

the the shift of the labor force so more

women entering the labor force after

World War II it's the 50s 60s and 70s

where these products really really took

off but in the UK it's been a big part

of our diet since the 80s and it's been

growing since then and it's the the

primary cause of pandemic obesity

and is it different to processed food so

processed food is broadly fine there's

there's the way I think about food is

there's whole food but there's very

little food that you eat raw off a tree

or pulled out of the sea you know

there's oysters and apple uh that's

those are pretty much the only things

processing is ancient humans are what we

call obligate processables we have to

process our food compared to other

animals of our size we have one of the

shortest digestive tracts uh in in

nature we've got tiny teeth very small

jaws we've extended our digestive

biology outside of our bodies we did

that with the invention of cooking over

a million years ago and since then

mainly female domestic scientists have

been grinding smashing pulverizing

extracting molecules drying salting

curing smoking we've been doing all

these processes so we've got evidence of

dairying from the Sahara Desert uh six

seven eight thousand years ago we can

find shards of pottery covered in

residues of dairy fat that we know was

processed so we've been making butter

for thousands of years butter is fine

the invention of margarine where we take

a liquid plant oil that will spoil

quickly and we refine it to bleach it

deodorize it into a stereophyte and

hydrogenate it to make it fatty to make

it solid we then emulsify it with mono

and diglycerides of fatty acids we add

water we then add colorings and

flavorings to turn it into synthetic

butter that's new and our bodies are

poorly evolved to deal with those

processes

so what's wrong with these extra things

that we're putting into Ultra processed

food so the additives are just one part

of the problem because the additives are

the way we recognize the food so people

listening can go to their cupboards and

they can get their packet of bread out

and the bread might say it's full of

fiber but you'll find emulsifiers on the

bread because all our bread is an

emulsified foam and so people have

started to

um worry about the additives in fact the

additives are a small part of the

problem

there are a number of different ways

that Ultra processed food affects our

biology for the most part it's

incredibly soft and it's incredibly

energy dense so per gram it has a lot of

calories the softness and the energy

density means that we consume it at a

far higher rate than our internal

systems that should tell us when to stop

eating can can catch up so broadly if

you whether you're eating a burger or a

piece of fried chicken or a bottle of

breakfast cereal there are illusions of

texture there'll be little crunches and

pops and snaps and greasy bits and dry

bits and chewy bits but it's all

inhaliably fast to eat and the hormones

that tell you to stop just just can't

keep up so that's a big part of the

problem

this then are quite a long list of other

ways it affects us so the artificial

sweeteners the who has just released a

report on this week they have powerful

effects on the microbiome on our pallets

and on our internal physiology if you

put sweet taste in the mouth and the

sugar never arrives it spikes your

insulin and broadly you go and get your

sugar elsewhere which is why artificial

sweeteners aren't associated with weight

loss

we think some of the additives in the

food affect the microbiome

um we think the money that's your gut

that's that's these are the the trillion

or so friendly bacteria that don't just

live in your guts eating your leftovers

they secrete molecules that regulate

your immune system provide fuel for your

heart uh that are really important for

your brain development so these bugs are

very much a part of us and all kinds of

things about the food uh interact with

these bugs modify the populations and

feed them in different ways and we think

Drive inflammation so we are seeing at

the moment as well as going hand in hand

with the pandemic of obesity we're also

seeing pandemic of inflammatory bowel

disease of metabolic disease like type 2

diabetes of cardiovascular diseases and

strokes and all of these problems there

is a reasonable degree of evidence that

they are they are caused by our diet

primarily so in 2019 our poor diet which

is to say an ultra process site overtook

smoking as the leading cause of early

death on planet Earth so we've got all

these different ways that the food

affects our physiology for me there is

one really important part of the

definition of ultra processed food which

sort of cuts through all that because

there's a certain amount of mystery

about exactly what this food does to us

and different products affect us in

different ways you know diet diet cola

affects us differently to emulsified

bread

broadly speaking this is food which is

engineered not just for profit but fine

for financialized growth and that is its

purpose and so the cereals that you and

I ate as children and we would my kids

eat the same Brands since we were kids a

few decades ago those cereals have been

iterated through focus groups through

tasting panels and one of the things

that's measured and I spoke to a lot of

people within the food industry for the

book one of the things that's measured

is how much and how quickly do people

eat and so each year our breakfast

cereals and our Breads and our ready

meals and our pizzas all the dials are

tweaked so that we eat more

and what we're left with is a set of

products that are brilliant at

extracting money with us because they're

quasi-addictive so the profit incentive

is a really important part of how this

food is engineered to drive excess

consumption I mean there's a lot to

unpack you know in that um so so let's

kind of let's let's go back if you like

to

you know what what food is for you know

um because that's that's the sort of

fundamental question isn't it you know

because I think you know I imagine there

are sort of you know this conversation

divides people between those who kind of

go

oh God you know it's another sort of

nugget munching Health Food freak he

just wants us to stop enjoying our food

and wants me to spend hours in the

kitchen cooking whole grains and and eat

stuff that tastes of mud and there are

lots of other people going

as I as I am at the moment you know that

I I it's going I've lived eating this

stuff for decades I feel like it's

catching up with me I know this is

necessary conversation uh to be having

and and in fact I've I it's a

coincidence really that I've been kind

of going through

a diet over the last month in which I've

cut out a lot of this stuff

um

and I'm feeling you know much much

better as a result uh I'm much much

healthier so so you kind of need to

start with you know what why do we eat

do we do we you know because we eat for

social purposes

um

it demonstrates our status and our

position in society it's a you know if I

if I have a meeting with people half the

time it will be over food

um have we got sort of food wrong

there's a role in in what we in our

lives is the corollary of what you're

asking is ultra processed food actually

food and this was the proposition that

was was given to me by a collapse I'm

not a scientist I collaborate with in

Brazil called Fernanda rauber and we

were planning a research study because

I'm a I'm an academic as well as a

physician and I I study how companies

food companies affect our health and

every time I talked about food she'd

correct me and go it's not food it's an

industrially produced edible substance

and its purpose is financialized growth

which isn't quite the same as profit it

has a specific meaning

um you're completely right food has a

social cultural and nutritional role and

all of those those aspects of it are

being destroyed by the very very small

number of corporations that now produce

food for us so there are 10 to 15 by

most counts by some measurements there

are only four companies that really make

almost all the calories we eat and and

there's another layer that produce the

ingredients

so the purpose of food historically has

been about love and nourishment and

feeding friends family and community and

that has determined our physiology the

number of genes we have for metabolizing

alcohol for digesting starch the the way

our bodies are shaped everything about

our gut is because of the food that's

been developed historically and we're

well evolved to eat it

um

the food that we have now all of that

tradition most of which is oral most of

which is not particularly well written

down all of it is being

replaced by this project of the

transsational food companies to entirely

take over our Global diet and so we're

seeing the nutrition transition that

happened in the U.S Canada the UK

and Australia a little bit northern

Europe to some extent where we switched

from a traditional diet where we ate

foods that we'd been eating for a long

time that happened quite gradually from

the 70s to the present day in places

like Brazil in West Africa in central

Africa it's happening overnight it is so

fast and particularly and in East Asia

the same thing is happening so the

question of what

is food is very very important and I

think it is useful to cast Ultra

processed food as not food

now that's typical isn't it because they

they would say Well it it

you know that's a silly thing to say

because it's nutritious it's full of you

know all the right food groups

um and it's affordable and you know we

are providing a public service we're

providing affordable food to people who

can't necessarily afford to go to you

know the health food shop and buy

ingredients and spend loads of time

cooking and doing all of that um what's

your answers so it's so important that

the caveat to that is that this is the

only affordable available food for many

many people and particularly in the UK

so for a low-income household to eat a

healthy diet according to our NHS

guidelines which don't talk about Ultra

processing they would need to spend

between 60 and 70 of their household

income on food at the moment we spend

between six and seven percent in the UK

we spend less on food than any other

country apart from the states because

everything else is so expensive

I think that the food industry are going

to be very skillful and and we're seeing

this a little bit at costing me and all

my academic colleagues that agree with

me because I've written a book but this

is the view of really

um good research groups at Cambridge at

Harvard

at the World Health Organization this is

very robustly uh uh evidenced as an idea

that this is the leading cause of diet

related disease now the argument the

response from the food industry is to

cast those who critique Ultra processed

food as a misogynist or people who want

to further disadvantage or stigmatize

the populations that are actually being

predated on by the companies themselves

what's really important when we have

this discussion is that we have it with

kindness and we do nothing to further

stigmatize people who live with dark

related disease especially obesity

because at the moment obesity is

probably the characteristic that is most

stigmatized particularly by doctors

so this is a really slippery

conversation to have for me the

important thing is to maintain a laser

focus on critiquing the people who can

fix the problem industry actually have a

very limited ability to fix the problem

the people who can fix the problem are

doctors and government who need to act

as Regulators but what's different about

what you're saying is you know we're

used to a lot of dietary conversations

being about well you know moderation is

you know being you're not saying Ultra

processed food is okay in moderation

you're saying it's not food we shouldn't

really be having it actually I'm saying

I think there will be two people

listening or watching to this there will

be two kinds of people there may be

people like me who recognize in

themselves an addicted tendency and the

the uh science showing that for some

people

some Ultra processed foods are as

addictive as drugs of abuse as tobacco

products as alcohol is very strong and

so if you recognize that you have an

addiction to these Foods or you

recognize an addicted relationship those

people may find it useful to try and

quit and the book is offering an idea an

invitation really to eat along as part

of that project so I that that's that

claim about addiction is the thing that

I think we also need to hear a bit more

about because you know on the face of it

what you say is really shocking so are

you you know are you saying that the

foods that most of us are eating

are addictive to a you know well our

addictive at all you know what is the

evidence

so people I think one of the the reasons

that people don't think that I am just

proposing that everyone stay at home and

eat yogurt is because people actually

have the evidence of their own

experience that this food is extremely

hard to stop eating now it's not not

everyone is addicted to their

supermarket bread or their breakfast

cereal but many many people who are

living with overweight or obesity will

recognize there are foods that they

simply cannot stop eating and I've

certainly had that experience you may

have lots of people have and we've got

lots and lots of data showing that when

you rate an addictive substance and you

do surveys or you do neuroimaging to say

how easy is it for someone to quit this

Food Scores extremely highly as highly

as tobacco products right is that

addiction or is that habit it it's you

know is it an actual chemical dependence

or is it just you get so used to it you

then can't live without it to some

extent that's a that's a philosophical

distinction the behave addiction is a

set of behaviors it describes

um seeking out and doing something

despite knowing the harm it causes now

there is some argument people have

advanced the idea that food addiction is

a behavioral addiction I don't think the

evidence for that is very strong people

are powerfully addicted to the

substances themselves and when we image

the brains of people who are using these

substances they do seem to be very

addicted and people don't describe the

act of eating is the thing they're

addicted to they describe the food

itself and if you ask people whether or

not they're able to quit despite knowing

the harm and the harms of this food are

extremely widely known people find it

really really hard to quit the addiction

evidence is strong now just as for some

people abstinence from alcohol is going

to be essential people who live with

addiction find moderation extremely hard

I do

um there are people who can be moderate

and so probably about half the people

listening to this are going to say well

it would be good for me to cut down but

for example I feed my kids most weeks my

kids have beans on toast toast made from

Supermarket braids and fish fingers for

dinner or they'll have a microwavable

lasagna and they go to kids parties and

they have a bag of sweets they have

crisps at the weekend they have ice

cream so I don't ban this in my kids but

we do try and keep intake down so that

it isn't making up most of their

calories

now in the process of doing this you did

what I did when I quit smoking

um using the Alan Carr method which was

smoke all the way through it until you

get to the end and then you don't want

another cigarette and at the beginning

of the process they say

you're going to smoke all the way

through this and then you're not going

to want another one at the end and you

kind of think well that's total nonsense

you get to the end and for me it works

it doesn't work for everyone but for me

it did and you did something very

similar so the book

um I had the experience writing the book

that I spoke to it was it was the

scientist in Brazil actually and after

this conversation went and I'd been

speaking to lots and lots of scientists

about the harms it does to the body

whilst I was eating an ultra processed

food diet as part of an experiment at

University College London and I suddenly

sat down to eat a fried chicken dinner

and I could not eat it and I'd been

released from this addiction that I'd

had for a very long time and so the

proposal in the book is that we are all

part of an experiment that we didn't

volunteer for

uh we take all the risk in this

experiment where new molecules and new

combinations of old molecules are added

to our food we take the risk while the

benefit is handed to a very small number

of individuals who own these companies

and so my invitation to the reader is

just eat these Foods while you read it's

not going to do any more harm to do it

some people find that by the end of the

book they are simply unable to eat the

food anymore other people want to quit

quit

um other people just want to to cut down

but the Alan Carr method that you

describe

is one of the best evidenced methods for

quitting an addiction so I think the

science around this food being addictive

for some people is very very good and

unless we regulate unless we unless

policy makers

frame it that in a way that understands

that some people do find types of ultra

processed food addictive I think we're

we're not going to make great progress I

mean for me comparing it to smoking

the the reason I was able to give up was

because I it totally changed the way I

thought about

cigarettes and smoking you know I I you

know because by the end of that process

for me it was like well that's just a

kind of

stupid addiction you know it kind of it

it doesn't make you feel but you think

it makes you feel better but it doesn't

and

um it's a waste of health and money and

time and and all those things so it's a

what you know only an idiot would smoke

after that

um are you saying that you get once you

once you go through this process of

thinking about food this way

you're going to get to the place where

you are where you're saying this is not

really food so why would I put that in

my body

part of it we don't entirely understand

why that method of of doing something

harmful whilst engaging with the

information why it helps

part of it is probably that this food

and cigarettes in in a similar way

they're made by in some cases the same

companies this food is the food that you

inspect the very least while it passes

your lips when you go to a restaurant

you have a tasting menu if you have all

that money and you try wine you're

constantly analyzing it you want to

understand the terroir it was grown on

the flavors and the provenance of

everything this food Optical processed

food we don't inspect once you start to

inspect it it reveals the lies the food

is telling you so Ultra processed food

is full of flavorings ins you know added

flavorings instead of real flavor it's

full of gums that replace fats it's full

of sweeteners instead of sugars and so

once you start to taste the lies many of

them become a little bit disgusting once

you realize that the fatty sliminess in

your mouth isn't fat it comes from a

bacterial exudate like xanthan gum many

people start to go I can taste that now

maybe I I want to eat a bit less of it

the forbidden fruit is also a big part

of it a lot of the marketing around the

food promotes the idea that this is

naughty it's a treat and yet it's become

a treat that we all eat every day so in

a sense releasing yourself from the

spell of the forbidden fruit is is part

of what the book's about just just

indulge roll around in it but quite a

lot of that food also says Healthy

Choice low fat you know or you know it

tells you that it's healthy I mean are

you are you really saying this is

misselling

yes I think a really

there are two things first of all A good

rule of thumb is if a food contains a

health as a health claim written on the

packet it's almost certainly Ultra

processed

with any one food you can't really talk

about it being a healthy food or an

unhealthy food with any single product

and the same is true whether if you talk

about an egg or a piece of broccoli you

can't live on Broccoli nor can you live

on eggs

um as a category of food the evidence is

extremely clear with particular aspects

of any one food the evidence is also

very clear but if you hold up any

particular breakfast cereal with let's

say all it has is some flavorings added

to it in fact there's one in the lobby

that's been given out for free at

Channel floor and it's only out of it's

only ingredient that makes it UPF is

natural flavorings now can we say that

that it that breakfast cereal is or

isn't harmful no but if your dietary

pattern includes 60 of your calories

from UPF what we are really sure about

is that that is strongly associated with

the very long list of negative Health

outcomes that go with being an adult in

one of the North West Rich parts of the

world so so let's come back to sort of

what

what what what effect these foods have

on us because again we're used to sort

of hearing that these sorts of foods

either have too much sugar or too much

fat or the wrong kind of fat so beyond

these

um you know flavorings and gums that we

don't really know what effect they have

on us

um what is it that we're eating that is

that is bad for us that's having adverse

effects

so in terms of if we compared a homemade

chocolate brownie say to one that you

might buy at the shop now we no one's

ever done this piece of research but we

have lots of evidence that the chocolate

brownie at the shop will have much

smaller particle size you'll absorb it

quicker it's been processed more

aggressively physically it'll be

extruded and mechanically recovered

it would have been made using ratios of

salt and fat and sugar that we know

drive hyperpalatability so a good cook

at home can make a delicious chocolate

brownie but they're making it

to satisfy you to nourish you to to

create a bond for some for some love and

some pleasure they're not doing it to

make you eat as much chocolate brownie

as they possibly can and what food

scientists been able to do for a long

time is create ratios of fats and salts

and sugars that drive excess consumption

so you want more when you say hyper

palatability so what is a hyper

palatable food is food that is has this

quasi-addictive property that you just

can't stop eating yes that you'll go

back to and eat more and P everyone will

recognize this sensation of the the

packet that you've stopped enjoying

smokers recognize this and so do food

addicts which is many of us that we

never leave any food behind so the

standard

um UK lunch of Sandwich crunchy stuff in

a packet uh fizzy drink that's what we

all drink that is our national lunch all

of that is ultra processed and I put it

to you that not a single person in the

history of that lunch has ever left a

few crisps in the pack you never leave

the crust of the sandwich do you no one

ever does even though that lunch is 900

to 1000 to 1200 calories sometimes even

when that lunch is from an organic fresh

um uh you know wholesome chain there are

several of them where it's presented to

us as really healthy food and you might

have it with a with a healthy drink and

some popcorn rather than the crisps it's

still a huge calorific load in that

example is the problem that there's too

many calories or so when it comes to

weight gain uh

there's been a big argument about this

it is entirely resolved that if we eat

more calories than we burn then we will

gain weight and so when it comes to

weight gain yes the problem is that we

eat too many calories of this food and

and that is not a choice that we're

making it's because the food is

engineered to drive excess consumption

and it's and we're very sure about that

so in terms of that chocolate brownie

we've got a very very perfect mix of

traditional molecules and then it will

also contain things some of which are

there to save money so Dairy fats will

be replaced by these very modified plant

fats because they're just fantastically

cheaper if you can use a solid Palm fat

compared to uh actual Dairy butter

um one is is massive possibly 10 times

cheaper than the other so the the the

um some of the uh the fats will interact

with our body in harmful ways we think

the emulsifiers that bind everything

together will affect there's really good

evidence that emulsifiers affect our

microbiome the friendly bugs that live

inside us emulsifiers occur in nature

when you make a salad dressing mustard

is an emulsifier you could use egg yolk

that's an emulsifier something about

those emulsifiers is very different to

the emulsifiers like the Lesser thins

carboxymethyl cellulose polysorbate 80

and we've got really good research on

these published in big journals like

nature this isn't a single study showing

that the emulsifiers which are a form of

detergent they bind water to Fat they're

essentially kind of scrubbing out the

gut they change our mucus our thickness

of the mucus and they alter the

population of bugs that live inside us

so if the evidence is so clear

how is this stuff allowed

well one of the things is the way in

terms of the the additives the way we

think about additives is the questions

that's always been asked is are they

acutely toxic now in terms of eating a

spoonful of any of them none of them

will poison you today what we're

becoming increasingly concerned about is

their long-term effects on our metabolic

health and our risk of say obesity those

things are just really really hard to

study and we aren't being precautionary

enough about them so I think when it

comes to adding uh molecules to our food

where there is good evidence from mice

that there is a risk of inflammation for

example inflammatory disease or

metabolic disease we should be really

really cautious about adding those

molecules to food so that's that's the

additives when it comes to ultra

processed food as a category

um policy makers are behind I think for

two reasons in the UK there has been a

near total capture of uh

policymakers themselves

the Charities and big organizations that

inform policy and particularly the

medical profession by the companies that

make the food so most of our big

activists Charities and the patient

associations that give guidance and

opinion statements on the way food

affects our health are funded by the

list of companies we would all name as

making the least healthy products we

could think of so how do you think

regulation could change that

so the most important step in terms of

Regulation there are two things that

have to happen before we even think

about regulation one is Grassroots

change but politicians can't do anything

without people demanding this and I

think the book has resonance with people

because people do feel like they are

being gaslit by their own food by the

people selling food to them as we all

get bigger and I include myself we

realize that the solutions we've been

sold aren't working so we need

Grassroots change and we need the

affected communities to start demanding

action and I hope the book provides

evidence for them to be able to do that

we then need a cultural change where we

start to think about the big food

companies in the same way we do the

tobacco companies that is not the same

as saying the food is like cigarettes

and stigmatizing everyone it's not the

same as saying all the policy changes

need to be the same we can't tax this

food for obvious reasons but regarding

the food companies as similar to Tobacco

companies is important because it will

mean we have to refuse their money we

will we will have to start doing

research that isn't funded by them and

the Charities that Advocate to change

advocate for change will have to stop

stop taking their money too and that

that is the single biggest thing and

once you've done that everything else is

unlocked because specific policies need

to be developed

with the people who are affected by the

food then it's pretty straightforward

you limit marketing because that doesn't

affect anyone you know you're not

limiting freedoms we need to label

healthy food and in our national

guidance we do need to put a line that

could read something like

um early evidence shows or a significant

amount of evidence shows that Ultra

processed food is strongly associated

with inflammatory diseases like Crohn's

disease metabolic diseases like type 2

diabetes certain cancers depression

anxiety obesity and overweight and early

death that would be very easy to write

and once that's in the guidance you can

teach it in schools and you can have

public health campaigns and everyone can

get behind the idea I mean you will have

seen how difficult it is for governments

to regulate at all on you know on this

when they're looking at advertising

rules the broadcasters go up in arms and

say you're going to put broadcasters out

of out of business when they you know

when they're looking at sort of two for

one deals and all that kind of stuff

there's always a Lobby that will argue

against it and politicians quite often

cave in

I mean that what you're talking about is

sort of that on steroids

I mean I'm talking about very light

regulation I would say I'm talking about

you shouldn't have a monkey selling

chocolate cereal to kids at breakfast

time there shouldn't be a tiger on the

box you shouldn't have this stuff at the

counter this is this is gentle stuff for

what is now the leading cause of early

death I for context this is an emergency

right it's not this isn't small beer so

one in five kids leaving Primary School

living with obesity and almost all of

them will go on and continue to live

with obesity and a growing number of

diet related diseases in adult life and

these children really really suffer and

proposing very light touch regulation

that doesn't include any tax

is not particularly onerous I would say

um one of the things we might try and

regulate would be the lobbying itself

and very few countries do it but if we

look to examples from around the world

there are some Latin American countries

that have done an incredible job because

they've seen within a a decade uh

communities uh go from having almost no

obesity to many many adults having

amputations because of the rate of

diabetes the the pressure from Civil

Society to regulate this food has been

enormous and so in many many countries

they now put labels on the food Chile is

a great example they put big black

hexagons on Ultra processed food so this

can be done but there needs to be a view

that when it comes to the nanny state

right you can either have

um no regulation because you're so

frightened of giving people information

I don't see why labeling things is

nannying them if you're not taxing them

and you're not Banning them and I'm

definitely not proposing Banning

anything

um or you can have everyone nannied by

fundamentally predatory transnational

corporations who will do the nannying

and tell everyone what to eat and do

that for you so we're going to be

nannied either way so we do live in a

nanny State already The Nanny state is

run by by the corporations that aren't

elected

now I know you're not giving people a

prescription here you're not advising

people to live a certain way but I mean

if we want to take the lessons from this

book and apply it to our lives you've

already admitted it's not

straightforward and it's not cheap

but you know I know in my household my

teenagers do not listen to me about what

it is healthy to eat and what it is not

healthy to eat my three-year-old and my

five-year-old don't listen to me about

it yeah so so so you know that's a

bigger question isn't it about how we

actually change the way we live you know

I mean I buy lots of healthy food now in

my in my sort of um you know new

Revolution

um and my kids go to the fridge and they

open the fridge and they go there's

nothing to eat I go there's a fridge

full of healthy stuff to eat and they go

I can't eat any of that you know it's

the meme of an ingredient household kids

complaining that it's just a house full

of ingredients there's no real food

look we have no control we have very

little control over what we eat

if we have money in education we have

some control but we have very little

control over what our kids eat our kids

are fed at school uh our kids are fed at

their friends houses and our kids have

to be um a big part of parenting I think

is having kids who feel normal who don't

feel like an exception like they don't

feel eccentric and so eating this food

is a big part of that so my kids are

very much not banned from eating this

food definitely not when they go to

parties I try and reduce their

consumption at home and we don't have a

lot of it in the cupboards but they do

have some grandparents buy it for them

and relatives and friends they come home

with party packs

um I don't have a great answer for a

parent who is struggling there are some

people who have read the book and have

just said you know I believe everything

you say but this is really hard for me

to change and that is why the book is an

argument that the food system we live

within is incredibly violent to our

bodies and it desperately needs changing

um and people can't make choices that

are healthy many people are incredibly

constrained by the world around them so

changing School food would be good if

people want a tip I won't give anyone a

tip because it's just not it's not my

job I don't understand your budget your

life your time your contract your hours

I don't understand anything about your

life but what I do is I try and get

control over breakfast so um breakfast

is the one meal of the day where you you

get to buy the stuff and you can choose

what's available the other thing I do is

I get my kids bored and hungry and I put

real food in front of them so a bowl of

chopped up

raw fruit and veg they will just out of

sheer boredom eat it in front of the TV

that's that's not a bad place to start

retraining that palette and what do you

think about the whole idea of sort of

comfort food and things like that I mean

I literally went into my

17 year old daughter's bedroom yesterday

very stressed because she's doing a

levels and she had a three packet of

Crunchies and a multi-pack of Watsons

and

which she just obviously bought herself

and sort of secreted into her room and

she was going I'm doing a levels I'm

stressed okay how do you say that's

going to make you feel worse than men

rather than better I don't know how

anyone has that conversation with their

kids for my I can project forward 10

years and that's going to be an

incredibly difficult conversation to

have with my kids uh certainly the

evidence shows that this is food that is

associated with anxiety and depression

possibly with neuroinflammation I would

suspect that there's no reason to think

it would improve performance when it

comes to comfort my question is always

are you really comforted by this food

the food often like the cigarettes like

the alcohol like the gambling like all

the other things in our lives that we

lean on it it feels like the solution

and yet it's incredibly short term but

it is sold to us as the solution so um

asking how much you are enjoying that

particular crunchy thing or that

inflammable tube of tobacco inquiring of

it what it means is quite important our

world is very Ultra processed so it's

not just our food our phones are Ultra

processed our apps are Ultra processed

our music is our television our games

Ultra processing is a is a mechanism for

creating something that is uh almost

impossible to avoid over consuming and

it's a way it's a brilliant way of

generating money and particularly it's a

way of commodifying the ill health of

the most disadvantaged people on Earth

and further enriching people who already

have more money than they know what to

do with

have a sense that you were embarking on

a crusade when you when you did this

book I mean

I wonder what you you know what the

unintended consequences are you know

you're telling your children's

broadcaster

and suddenly in a very controversial

argument with the food industry

again does that make you worry about

my colleagues at um a lot of my

colleagues who I work with at World

Health Organization or particularly in

Latin America have been really violently

threatened

um and certainly uh there is evidence

that the food industry has committed

acts of extreme violence a very

deliberate violence against activists in

other countries I don't think that's

likely to happen here when I speak to

people within the food industry they all

privately say we would love to stop

selling this but there is no point in us

stopping selling it because we will just

be replaced in the market by someone who

is willing so until there's a Level

Playing Field nothing will change I

think people within the food industry

want to do the right thing and I think I

think everyone is ready for government

to step in and go yeah let's limit the

marketing here let's label the packets

let's put it in the in the guidance

people buy this idea at the heart of the

book it's it's incredibly

straightforward really the food made by

Massive companies with obligations to

Pension funds A makes your body

differently to food made at home by

someone who loves you I mean that's it's

not it's what we've all believed for

decades now we have very robust evidence

that proves it and if the government's

regulator then companies will have to

comply and won't have to listen to their

shareholders and they will be fine when

we regulated the pharmaceutical industry

very intensively in the early 2000s they

continue to make massive amounts of

money industry will be fine if you could

change the world then with one Fell

Swoop how would you change it

I would I would

have

severe regulations around conflicts of

interest

you cannot accept money from someone who

profits from generating diet related

disease in children whilst at the same

time claim that you yourself can solve

diet related diseasing children or in

adults so limiting the conflicts of

interest opens up the entire world of

regulatory possibilities in ways that

are fair and just and reasonable and

everyone can still make money and

everyone will be healthier but that the

problem is with these conflicts it's the

Charities and the doctors taking the

money from industry and I think if

there's one thing I'd like your your

listeners and and and viewers to

understand there would be two things

first of all ask who is paying the

person that is giving them information

who paid for this science who is funding

this charity look at look at the funding

of the charities

and the second thing is to understand

that people who live with diet related

disease are not responsible for it but

they are no more responsible for what

they eat than we are for the amount of

water we drink

um it is a problem of genes interacting

with an environment that is inherently

violent and uh and that is what needs

regulating

Chris van teleken thank you very much

indeed such a pleasure