In Conversation with Margaret Atwood on The Tempest

Summary

In this insightful conversation, Anthony Chameli, Artistic Director of the Stratford Festival, interviews acclaimed novelist Margaret Atwood about her novel 'Hag-Seed,' a modern retelling of Shakespeare's 'The Tempest.' Atwood discusses her fascination with 'The Tempest,' especially its themes of power, redemption, and the role of Prospero as a director. She reflects on her creative process, transforming Shakespeare's characters into contemporary figures, including a unique solution for Miranda. The discussion also touches on the power of theater in prisons and the layered complexities of both the play and Atwood's novel.

Takeaways

• 🎭 Margaret Atwood's novel *Hag-Seed* is based on Shakespeare's *The Tempest* and was one of the first parallel novels requested by a publisher.
• 👑 Atwood chose *The Tempest* because it's an end-of-career play that becomes more relatable with age, and she sees Prospero as a stand-in for Shakespeare himself.
• 🎬 In *Hag-Seed*, Atwood reimagines Prospero as Felix, a stage director who parallels the control and manipulation of the play's characters.
• 🧙‍♂️ The character of Ariel, a central figure in *The Tempest*, is recast as a special effects character, reflecting Prospero’s directorial control.
• 👩‍👧 Atwood had to creatively solve the challenge of Miranda's role in a modern context, making her a vision of Felix's deceased daughter rather than a living character.
• 📖 *Hag-Seed* has been adapted into a play about a director staging *The Tempest* in a prison, reflecting a similar prison-based program in real life.
• 🎭 Prisoners involved in the real-life prison production of *The Tempest* take their roles seriously, even playing female characters, which parallels *Hag-Seed*'s approach.
• 📜 Atwood explores the theme of forgiveness in *The Tempest*, especially in Prospero’s journey toward relenting and asking the audience for forgiveness.
• 🧙‍♀️ Both Prospero and Sycorax, Caliban’s mother, are depicted as sorcerers in the play, raising questions about their relationship and Caliban’s parentage.
• 😂 Margaret Atwood humorously shares that she won the Swedish Humor Award, though the actual award was stolen, adding a lighthearted anecdote to the conversation.

Q & A

What was the purpose of Margaret Atwood's conversation in this transcript?

The conversation was part of the Stratford Festival on film series, where Margaret Atwood discussed her novel *Hag-Seed*, a retelling of Shakespeare's *The Tempest*, and the themes and ideas explored in both works.

Why did Margaret Atwood choose *The Tempest* for her retelling in *Hag-Seed*?

Margaret Atwood chose *The Tempest* because it is often interpreted as an 'end of career' play, and she found it increasingly interesting as she reached a certain age. She also saw it as a play where Shakespeare reflects on his own role as a playwright through the character of Prospero, who acts as a producer and director within the play.

How does Atwood's *Hag-Seed* parallel *The Tempest*?

In *Hag-Seed*, Atwood makes Prospero into a modern-day stage director named Felix. Felix, like Prospero, is betrayed by his second-in-command and exiled, and he later stages a production of *The Tempest* within a prison setting, mirroring the play's themes of power, revenge, and redemption.

How did Margaret Atwood solve the 'Miranda problem' in *Hag-Seed*?

Atwood found it problematic to portray Miranda as a teenage girl who had never left home in a modern setting, so she reimagined her as a deceased child whom Felix, the protagonist, imagines growing up. This allowed Miranda to remain a presence in the story without being directly involved in the same way as the play.

How has *Hag-Seed* been received in real-life prison theater programs?

After *Hag-Seed* was published, Atwood was contacted by a real-life theater teacher in a prison who wanted to adapt the book into a play for inmates. They planned to stage a play about a play being performed in a prison, mimicking the structure of Atwood's novel and further layering the meta-theatrical concept.

Why does Prospero ask the audience for forgiveness at the end of *The Tempest*?

Atwood interprets this moment as Prospero recognizing that he has been imprisoned by his own actions and the play itself. In order to be free, he needs the audience's pardon, which creates a deeper connection between the character's journey and the theatrical experience.

What is the significance of Ariel in both *The Tempest* and *Hag-Seed*?

In both works, Ariel plays a crucial role as Prospero’s 'special effects' entity who carries out his commands. In *Hag-Seed*, Atwood reimagines Ariel as an alien figure, which resonates with the prison setting as inmates were more willing to accept this portrayal rather than playing a fairy.

What is Atwood's view on Caliban’s character in *The Tempest*?

Atwood suggests that Caliban could be interpreted as Prospero's own 'child' when Prospero says, 'This thing of darkness I acknowledge mine.' She also points out the similarity between Prospero and Sycorax, both of whom use magic and imprison Ariel, raising questions about Caliban’s origins.

What themes does Atwood explore in *Hag-Seed* that reflect modern political realities?

Atwood explores themes of governance and responsibility, reflecting on how Prospero's neglect of his duties led to his exile, a situation that mirrors modern politics, where power vacuums and betrayal can occur when leaders are inattentive or overly absorbed in their personal interests.

What award did Margaret Atwood humorously mention during the conversation, and what happened to it?

Margaret Atwood mentioned that she won the Swedish Humor Award, but she did not physically collect it. Her publishers picked it up on her behalf, but it was later stolen, making it a humorous anecdote about her unexpected accolade.

Outlines

00:00

📜 The Inspiration Behind 'Hag-Seed'

Anthony Chameli, the artistic director of the Stratford Festival, interviews Margaret Atwood about her novel 'Hag-Seed,' which is a retelling of Shakespeare's 'The Tempest.' Atwood explains that she chose 'The Tempest' because it becomes more interesting with age, as it is a career-ending play and reflects on Shakespeare's own role as a playwright. She likens Prospero to a director, controlling the special effects and characters within the play. Atwood also discusses the challenge of adapting Miranda's character to a modern context, hinting at a creative solution that avoids the creepiness of a man keeping a teenage daughter isolated.

05:01

🎭 Theatre in Prisons and Shakespeare's Relevance

Margaret Atwood shares how 'Hag-Seed' came to life in a unique setting—a theatre in prisons. She describes the process of adapting 'The Tempest' into a play within a prison context, where an alien character replaces the fairy Ariel. Atwood reflects on the significance of Shakespeare's work for prisoners, who take their roles seriously and find empowerment in the characters. She also touches on the themes of power, governance, and the consequences of abdication, drawing parallels to modern politics and the importance of leadership and responsibility.

10:02

👽 Ariel as an Alien and the多层嵌套 of 'Hag-Seed'

In this segment, Atwood discusses the creative decision to portray Ariel as an alien in a prison setting, which aligns with the original play's themes of non-human characters reflecting human nature. She explores the idea of Prospero's need for forgiveness and the various interpretations of the character's motivations and relationships, including the enigmatic Caliban. Atwood also mentions the Swedish Humor Award she won, adding a personal and humorous touch to the discussion.

15:02

😂 The Swedish Humor Award Antic

The final paragraph concludes the interview with a lighter note. Atwood humorously recounts her experience with the Swedish Humor Award, which she won but could not collect due to rain, and which was subsequently stolen. This anecdote adds a personal and amusing dimension to the conversation, highlighting Atwood's wit and the unexpected turns in her career.

Keywords

💡The Tempest

A play by William Shakespeare that serves as a key reference point in the video. 'The Tempest' is often viewed as an end-of-career work for Shakespeare, and it explores themes of power, control, and redemption. The video discusses how Margaret Atwood adapted 'The Tempest' into her novel *Hag-Seed*, emphasizing its relevance to her exploration of a director's control over his production and his own life.

💡Prospero

The protagonist of 'The Tempest,' portrayed as a former Duke and a powerful magician who controls the other characters on his island. In Atwood’s *Hag-Seed*, Prospero is reimagined as Felix, a disgraced theater director. His role in the play and book symbolizes creative authority, manipulation, and the struggle for redemption and forgiveness.

💡Hag-Seed

Margaret Atwood's modern adaptation of 'The Tempest,' reinterpreting its characters and themes in a contemporary setting. In the novel, the protagonist, Felix, is a director who stages 'The Tempest' in a prison. This meta-narrative explores the idea of imprisonment—both literal and metaphorical—while addressing themes like power, betrayal, and artistic obsession.

💡Miranda

Prospero’s daughter in 'The Tempest.' She symbolizes innocence and purity but is also confined and controlled by her father. In *Hag-Seed*, Atwood addresses the difficulty of portraying a modern Miranda, making her a posthumous, imagined figure to maintain a less disturbing narrative. The character of Miranda raises questions about freedom and confinement in both works.

💡Ariel

A spirit and servant of Prospero in 'The Tempest,' who assists in creating magical effects. Ariel is essential for Prospero’s control over the other characters. In Atwood’s adaptation, Ariel is turned into an alien, representing the otherworldly and transformative power of art and creativity. The character also introduces themes of empathy and moral influence over the protagonist.

💡Imprisonment

A central theme in both 'The Tempest' and *Hag-Seed*. In the play, characters are imprisoned in various ways—on the island, by magical means, or by their own emotions. Atwood’s adaptation emphasizes literal imprisonment, as the play is staged in a prison, and metaphorical imprisonment, as characters are trapped by their pasts and desires. This dual exploration enhances the theme of personal and societal freedom.

💡Artistic Control

Refers to the control that a director or artist has over their work and the people involved in it. In 'The Tempest,' Prospero represents Shakespeare’s role as a playwright. In *Hag-Seed*, Felix’s control over the inmates parallels Prospero’s control over his magical island, exploring the responsibilities and ethical dilemmas of artistic power.

💡Redemption

A key theme in both 'The Tempest' and *Hag-Seed*. In Shakespeare’s play, Prospero seeks redemption by forgiving his usurping brother and freeing Ariel. Similarly, in Atwood’s novel, Felix’s journey is about forgiving those who wronged him and coming to terms with his own mistakes, illustrating the transformative power of art and forgiveness.

💡Metatheatre

A theatrical device where a play comments on itself, blurring the line between reality and fiction. Both 'The Tempest' and *Hag-Seed* employ metatheatre, as Prospero and Felix direct plays within the story, reflecting on their own roles and the nature of theater itself. This technique deepens the narrative, highlighting themes of illusion, manipulation, and self-awareness.

💡Power and Authority

The dynamics of power and authority are explored through the relationships between Prospero and other characters, such as Ariel and Caliban, in 'The Tempest.' In *Hag-Seed*, Felix mirrors these power struggles with the inmates, examining how authority can be exerted, challenged, and ultimately relinquished. This theme also addresses the personal costs of wielding power and the potential for reconciliation.

Highlights

Margaret Atwood discusses her novel *Hag-Seed*, a modern retelling of Shakespeare's *The Tempest*.

Atwood was one of the first authors approached by a publisher to choose any Shakespeare play for a modern novel adaptation.

She chose *The Tempest* because it reflects themes of ending a career and life's transitions, becoming more relatable as she aged.

Atwood parallels Prospero's role as a director in *The Tempest* to that of a modern artistic director in *Hag-Seed*.

In her novel, the character Felix mirrors Prospero's obsession with his craft, facing betrayal from a second-in-command.

Atwood found a creative solution to the character of Miranda by having her die as a child but be imagined by Felix as growing up.

Her novel's setting at a prison includes Felix putting on a production of *The Tempest* with prisoners, paralleling real-life programs.

Atwood shares that after her book was published, a prison in Missouri wanted to stage a play based on *Hag-Seed*.

In *Hag-Seed*, the prison context posed challenges for casting Ariel, leading Atwood to make Ariel an alien instead of a fairy.

Atwood and the interviewer reflect on Prospero’s moral journey in *The Tempest*, noting that Ariel prompts him to show mercy.

They explore the idea that Prospero realizes he must forgive others and be forgiven, leading to his appeal to the audience at the end.

Atwood's book explores the theme of prisons, where every character is metaphorically or literally imprisoned.

The concept of Caliban being Prospero’s child is discussed, and Atwood humorously questions who Caliban's father might be.

The discussion ends with Atwood joking about winning the Swedish Humor Award, though she never received the actual trophy.

Atwood reflects on *The Tempest* as a play about governance, comparing it to modern politics where leaders abdicate responsibility.

Transcripts

[Music]

welcome ladies and gentlemen my name is

Anthony Chameli no I'm the artistic

director of the Stratford Festival and

we're here on the Stratford Festival on

film series and today we are in

conversation with Margaret Atwood who I

think is everybody's hero and a

brilliant novelist and playwright hello

Margaret

hello thank you for doing this when we

put on the tempest in 2018 you were very

kind to come to Stratford and talk to us

a little bit about the book that you'd

written based upon the tempest called

hag seed now apparently you were one of

the first people through the gate on

this assignment that was coming out from

a publisher saying you can choose any

play of Shakespeare you like and and

make a parallel novel out of it is that

right that's that's exactly right yes

and why why The Tempest well I think one

reaches a certain age and after that age

The Tempest becomes more interesting

than it was before

because it is a sort of end of career

type of play I know that it wasn't the

actual end of Shakespeare's career but

that's how it's often read and it's also

the play in which Shakespeare comes the

closest to writing a play about what he

himself actually did because Prospero is

the producer director of the play within

the play called The Tempest so he has a

special effects guy that would be Ariel

and without Ariel nothing happens

because without Ariel there isn't any

Tempest so Ariel gets his orders and

does the special effects but it's

Prospero directing and like directors

he's invisible so it says in the stage

director directions enter Prospero

invisible how do you play an invisible

person so he is he is uh pulling the

strings of the other characters and he

has a plan and he sets it in motion and

he directs it so and then he comes

at the end and says here I am and he

addresses the audience and basically

unless you clap I'm gonna stay here on

this island Prospero in Shakespeare's

play Prospero so Duke in the production

we did with Martha Henriette Duchess but

in many ways there's these parallel

worlds the stage is the island the

island and the stage are both in

countries in some ways and these

different universes parallel each other

in your beautiful book hag seed you make

Prospero actually a stage director an

artistic director yes well and he's also

a director director like a lot of

artistic directors isn't that truth I'm

no comment yeah so he's quite obsessed

with his own genius and he isn't paying

any attention to a second-in-command who

does what Antonio doesn't the tempest

namely he usurps the position of the

Prospero figure and sends him into exile

so the play that's the back story of the

The Tempest the play and the backstory

of the hag seed is that this is what has

happened to the Prospero figure it was

called Felix and he works in a a theatre

festival not unlike one with which you

may be familiar in a town not not unlike

the one with which you are also familiar

so I have added a few pubs and things

that don't exist but they're like the

pubs that do exist yeah so it was a lot

of fun I had to solve the problem of

Miranda so if you're making prosper into

a modern day story what do you do about

Miranda it would be very creepy if there

was a man with the teenage daughter who

had never been allowed outside the condo

or wherever it is they're living and had

never seen any other people so therefore

she wouldn't have been allowed to watch

television or look out the window or

anything that just would have been

creepy

so my solution is also a bit creepy but

it solved the problem of the Miranda

figure can we talk about the solution or

will it be a spoiler it's slightly a

spoiler but well yeah you know beautiful

solution yes well I'd take the the clue

from something in the plant self in

which he says that they almost died and

if it hadn't been for her he would have

died at cetera and she was his preserver

etc etc as a child so in my book the

Miranda actually has died at the age of

three and he has he is imagining her as

because he's going off and he's a hermit

he imagines her as growing up at the

rate in which he would have grown up so

she is she is in the play but not in the

man she's in my book but not in the same

way that she's actually in the play so

then he decides to put on them his

tempest play at the job that he's

acquired which is as is as a theatre in

in prisons teacher and the coda to that

is that after I published this book I

got a message from somebody who actually

does teach theater in prisons and this

person said we want to take your book we

want to turn it into a play about a

person putting on a play in a prison and

we want to put it on in our prison and

they're doing it in st. Louis Missouri

so they're doing a play of a book about

a play and in the book the play is being

put on in prison and in real life

they're putting this play about my book

they're putting it on in a prison well

that's a box within a box within a box

within a box within a box series of

mirrors and reflections and it's a

beautiful kind of review of what

Shakespeare can mean to people in

prisons and having spoken to different

colleagues who run programs like that

the the people involved in it take it

very seriously they're very proud of it

even if they're having play a female

character they are they all

yeah it depends which female character

so Lady Macbeth no problem I did think

we might have problem with Miranda so so

Prospero brings in and outside actress

and I said to the guy putting on the one

in the prison what are you gonna do

about the Miranda said we're bringing in

an outside actions bus just as you do in

the book I felt that that was a great

idea because then it gave us a modern

Miranda exactly you know and in both she

has a tomboy you know it's pretty tough

physically and that log carrying saying

is usually no how do you play that when

she helps him pick up the logs well

actually she's quite a tough little nut

she's been running around all over this

island likely on her bare feet the play

has so much to say about about

empowering women with the three

goddesses that come in in the mask yes

they do yeah and Martha Henry when she

when she was speaking to us about this

said that as a run went on she she felt

like Shakespeare was actually talking to

the actor not just the character of

Prospero and revealing how much of it

was done for Miranda but that was oh

yeah he Prospero says that he says that

he's doing it all for her so to get back

for her what he feels she ought to have

I did a little piece for a food magazine

about what they're actually eating on

that island and when you lay it all out

you can see why they would want to get

back to the laughs yeah I think what

we're all going through that now aren't

we it's how much sour dough can you eat

in a very mild way Prospero says that

you know he Christ his books above his

kingdom and in reading your and we can

get sentimental about that especially

those of us who love books mmm thank you

yeah who cares about governance

who cares about governments and yet we

see in the world we live in today what

happens when the people who perhaps

should be governing abdicate and allow

others to take over yep there's no

there's no question that it's Prospero's

fault

he wasn't paying attention and

Shakespeare is quite clear about that

he'd obviously read his Machiavelli and

the duty of a prince is to govern

properly you know to pay attention to

the welfare of his people to make the

decisions that are going to be helpful

to his state and Prospero has kind of

blown that off and deputized way too

much so he gave his brother all the

power and then the brother came to feel

that it was there for his by right and

you capture the sense of those

politicians you know in modern-day

beautifully like they have this just

this ability to make whatever deal needs

to be made in order to maintain their

position or get up a rung so I'm

wondering and in the face of that and

the revenge plot that's there Lear says

the rarer action is in virtue than in

vengeance and it's so interesting he

says the rarer action not the better

action better is implied but the fact is

we don't do that very often in this case

Prospero does relent he does and guess

who makes him do it

the space alien yes so there was a

problem with Ariel in a prison context

it's nobody wanted to play a fairy but

if you make him an alien from outer

space it all makes sense well it is like

probably the first example of

science-fiction in some ways if you're

squint really hard sure because science

fiction came out of them among its

sources were a lot of folk tales as they

were for for Shakespeare so non-human

reflecting us is such an interesting

conceit yes it's it's it's quite

wonderful and it's one of the best

moments and the play as far as I'm

concerned so Ariel says look at how

these people are suffering if I were him

and I would shed tears

so that makes Prospero think well if

even you they're just sort of a

arey nothin feel that way how much more

should I feel that way so I will be a

good person now maybe that he's getting

himself into a time and of Athens corner

by being too generous we don't go on to

examine that the brother never says he's

sorry

brother we don't for admits that what he

did was wrong and Prospero is gonna get

a get back on him boat with him not only

that he's he's broken his stuff and

thrown away his book so he doesn't have

supernatural help anymore I wouldn't

have done that if I were him well you

get the sense that he's going in with

his eyes open he not only needs to

forgive others but he realizes he needs

to be forgiven why do you think he asks

the audience for forgiveness at the end

well that's a very interesting question

that's where I started when I when I

began to write hag scene so I I started

at the end of the play and I worked my

way backwards and that's how I ended up

with prison because everybody in that

play is in prison at one time or another

hmm even Miranda although she doesn't

know it so you have a series of prisons

and the final prison is the play itself

because the Prospero figure says unless

I am pardoned for my faults I will be

stuck in this prison which is the play

yes to get out of it right so that's

it's it's again boxes within boxes all

the way back to the beginning of the

play and I have Prospero the Prospero

figure Felix asked his students to count

the number of prisons they get eight of

them there's actually nine that's

wonderful that's wonderful as you good

Nana and look through this play to

realize how many boxes how many traps

yeah yes they come up with the idea that

that possibly Caliban is his prize

rose child so when he says this thing of

darkness I acknowledge mine what exactly

is he saying

and who was caliban's dad

we know that the mum was but who is the

dad and the amount you've got cigarettes

and prospero they do exactly the same

kinds of things absolutely you're right

they're just they're both Sorcerer's

sorcerer a sorcerer they are and they

both imprison Ariel so so maybe there's

maybe there was something more going on

than we know about look on that thought

we should wrap up this discussion we are

so fortunate to have you here in so many

ways everything you've done for the

theater everything you dumped your

Stratford and the stuff you continued to

do and you just keep on amazing us with

more Booker prizes are you going for a

third you know 80 I think maybe no my

money's on you well win some other thing

you probably didn't know that I've won

the Swedish humor award you didn't know

that did you

no no you didn't know there was one yeah

it's well I didn't either so I won the

Swedish humor award but I wasn't able to

actually collect it so my publishers

went to collect it it was it was awarded

in an amphitheatre that was open at the

top and it was raining so they got wet

and they got the Swedish humor award

which was a large crystal bowl engraved

but then somebody stole the Swedish

humor award so although I've won the

Swedish humor award I don't actually

have a Swedish humor award it's kind of

funny kind of that would thank you thank

you lovely to see you you