The Earth Transformed: An Untold History | Peter Frankopan in conversation with Yuvan Aves

Summary

In this thought-provoking discussion, Peter Frankopan explores the intricate connections between human history and the natural world. He emphasizes the importance of considering climate and environmental factors in understanding historical events and societal changes. Drawing on a range of examples from different periods and regions, Frankopan highlights how these elements have shaped human actions and decisions, leading to significant transformations. He also discusses the role of human agency and the impact of natural disasters, climate change, and resource management on the rise and fall of empires and societies. The conversation underscores the value of a holistic approach to history, one that integrates diverse factors and perspectives to gain a more nuanced understanding of our past and present.

Takeaways

• 🌧️ The speaker appreciates the rain as a great primer for the session, symbolizing the connection between weather and human activities.
• 📚 The speaker envies Peter's students, highlighting the importance of understanding human agency and climate's role in history.
• 🌍 The discussion emphasizes the need to consider the Earth's transformation and human impact on the environment as part of historical study.
• 🤔 The process of inquiry in history involves questioning conventional narratives and considering the influence of climate and nature on historical events.
• 🏆 The speaker's experience as a historian focuses on the interplay between human actions and the natural world, particularly in relation to climate change.
• ⚽️ The analogy of Manchester City's success due to its ownership by a sovereign wealth fund illustrates the impact of natural resources on historical outcomes.
• 🌊 The importance of considering the natural world, such as ocean currents and volcanic eruptions, in shaping human history is emphasized.
• 🌬️ The concept of 'shock events' like natural disasters and pandemics is discussed, highlighting their significant influence on societal structures and responses.
• 📈 The speaker discusses the 'Little Ice Age' and its impact on global colonization, technology, and societal changes.
• 🌱 The interconnectedness of global history is stressed, with India playing a pivotal role in connecting different historical narratives.
• 💡 The speaker advocates for a holistic view of history that incorporates environmental factors and the need for sustainable practices.

Q & A

What are the two main reasons the speaker envies Peter's students?

The speaker envies Peter's students because of Peter's approach to history, which emphasizes human agency and its interaction with climate and nature, and because Peter asks different questions of the past that lead to unique insights.

How does the speaker describe the traditional portrayal of history in schools?

The speaker describes traditional history education as focusing heavily on 'great men' and a few notable women, with little attention given to broader environmental and societal factors.

What is the significance of the term 'Heisenberg's uncertainty principle' in the context of the transcript?

The term is used to illustrate the idea that our understanding of reality is shaped by the questions we ask, and that our perception of history can change when we start questioning it from different angles, such as considering the impact of climate and nature.

What is the importance of considering natural resources and environmental factors in historical analysis?

Considering natural resources and environmental factors helps to provide a more holistic and accurate understanding of historical events and societal changes, as these elements have played crucial roles in shaping human history.

How does the speaker connect the natural world and historical events?

The speaker connects the natural world and historical events by discussing how weather systems, resource exploitation, and environmental changes have influenced the rise and fall of empires, the outcomes of wars, and the development of civilizations.

What is the significance of the 'little ice age' in the speaker's discussion?

The 'little ice age' is significant because it represents a period of climatic change that had far-reaching effects on societies, including influencing migration patterns, trade, and the development of technologies.

How does the speaker view the impact of climate change on future generations?

The speaker views the impact of climate change on future generations as a pressing issue, emphasizing the need for a nuanced understanding of the interconnectedness of climate, society, and the natural world to address the challenges ahead.

What is the main message the speaker hopes to convey through his book?

The main message the speaker hopes to convey is the importance of understanding the complex interplay between human history, climate, and the natural world, and the need to rethink our approach to these issues in order to create a more sustainable future.

How does the speaker describe the role of historians in addressing environmental challenges?

The speaker describes the role of historians as crucial in explaining how we have reached current environmental issues and in helping to reevaluate our understanding of history through the lens of climate and nature.

What is the significance of the earthquake and tsunami in Japan for the speaker's argument?

The earthquake and tsunami in Japan serve as an example of how natural disasters can have wide-ranging and unexpected consequences, such as the destabilization of the Fukushima nuclear facility, and highlight the interconnectedness of global systems.

How does the speaker address the issue of biodiversity loss and mass extinction?

The speaker addresses biodiversity loss and mass extinction by discussing how historical events and human actions have contributed to these issues and by emphasizing the need to consider the natural world and its limits in our decision-making processes.

Outlines

00:00

🌧️ Rain as a Historical Primer

The speaker begins by likening the rain to a primer for the session, expressing envy for Peter's students. The speaker's admiration stems from two main reasons: the transformation of historical narratives to include climate and nature, and the novel questions posed to history that reveal different insights. The speaker also recalls Heisenberg's notion of reality being shaped by our questioning and applies it to Peter's approach to history.

05:01

🌍 Human and Natural Agency in History

The speaker discusses the traditional focus on human agency in historical narratives and the neglect of natural influences such as climate and resource exploitation. The speaker criticizes the narrow view of history centered on individuals and advocates for a broader perspective that considers environmental factors. Using examples like Manchester City's success and the British Empire, the speaker illustrates how natural resources have shaped historical outcomes.

10:03

🌊 The Influence of Natural Forces on Human History

The speaker delves into the impact of natural forces such as solar flares, ocean currents, and volcanic eruptions on human history. The discussion includes the concept of societal shocks leading to collapse and the importance of understanding these forces in the context of history. The speaker also touches on the interconnectedness of global networks and the fragility they introduce, using examples like the Fukushima nuclear incident and the little ice age.

15:04

🏰 Collapse, Recovery, and the Role of Climate

The speaker explores the theme of societal collapse and recovery, emphasizing the role of climate and environmental factors. Using historical examples like the Mayan civilization and the Bengal famine, the speaker illustrates how climatic changes and natural disasters can lead to significant societal shifts. The speaker also discusses the impact of the little ice age on European colonization and the interconnectedness of global trade and environmental conditions.

20:05

📜 Historical Texts and the Natural World

The speaker discusses the deep contemplation of the natural world in historical texts and traditions, such as the sacred writings in India. The speaker highlights the importance of rain as a divine sign in various cultures and the connection between climate patterns and political stability. The speaker also touches on the historical efforts to conserve resources and the role of religious and imperial edicts in environmental management.

25:05

🌿 Nature, Sacrality, and the Cycles of History

The speaker reflects on the historical connection between nature and sacrality, noting a recurring pattern where civilizations draw from natural elements for their spiritual beliefs, then forget this connection, leading to environmental degradation. The speaker draws parallels to modern climate activism as a form of new organized religion, with a message of urgency and potential apocalyptic consequences. The speaker also examines the role of priestly classes in controlling knowledge and their influence on societal structures.

30:07

🏫 The Role of Education in Addressing Global Challenges

The speaker discusses the importance of education in addressing global challenges, particularly in the context of climate change and environmental degradation. The speaker criticizes the current state of higher education for its exclusivity and suggests a more inclusive approach. The speaker also highlights the need for politicians and policymakers to be educated on issues such as social inequality, urban regeneration, and sustainable development, and expresses hope for a tipping point where society takes the environment more seriously.

35:09

🌐 Earth System Boundaries and the Future

The speaker addresses the concept of Earth system boundaries, highlighting the interconnectedness of various environmental issues beyond just climate change. The speaker emphasizes the importance of considering all aspects of the natural world and the need for hope amidst the challenges. The speaker also discusses the potential for innovation and research in tackling these issues, as well as the need for collective action and preparedness for future challenges.

40:09

📚 The Craft of Historical Writing

The speaker shares insights on the process of historical writing, emphasizing the importance of passion and personal connection to the subject matter. The speaker encourages young historians to explore a wide range of topics and find the one that resonates most with them. The speaker also discusses the challenges of publishing and the need to persist in the face of rejection.

45:11

🌌 The Younger Dryas and Prehistoric Civilizations

The speaker responds to a question about the Younger Dryas period and the theory of prehistoric civilizations, expressing skepticism about the idea of a sudden shift in human development around 10,000 BC. The speaker advocates for a more nuanced understanding of the gradual changes in human societies and lifestyles, and cautions against oversimplifying complex historical processes.

🌱 Learning from the Past for Climate Action

The speaker addresses a young person's question about knowledge from past civilizations that could help in the fight against climate change. The speaker affirms that there is much to learn from history and encourages the younger generation to engage with historical knowledge to inform future action. The speaker also promotes the importance of historical research in understanding and addressing contemporary environmental challenges.

Keywords

💡Human agency

Human agency refers to the capacity of individuals to act independently and make decisions that can influence the course of events. In the context of the video, it is emphasized that while human actions have a significant impact on the environment and climate, it's crucial to recognize that humans are not the only factor; natural elements like climate and nature also play a substantial role in shaping history.

💡Climate change

Climate change refers to significant, long-term changes in the patterns of temperature, precipitation, and other atmospheric conditions on Earth. It is a central theme in the video, with the speaker discussing how past societies and civilizations have been affected by shifts in climate, and how these changes have influenced human history and the natural world.

💡Environmental history

Environmental history is an academic discipline that studies the interaction between humans and the natural environment over time. In the video, the speaker advocates for an approach to history that integrates the study of human actions with the broader context of environmental changes, emphasizing the interconnectedness of these elements.

💡Sustainability

Sustainability refers to the ability to maintain or support a process or state over the long term, without depleting resources or causing harm to the environment. The video highlights the importance of considering sustainability in historical contexts and its relevance to current challenges, such as managing water resources and addressing climate change.

💡Globalization

Globalization is the process by which businesses, ideas, and cultures increasingly interact and integrate on a global scale. In the video, the speaker examines the historical context of globalization, particularly during periods like the medieval warm period, and how it influenced the spread of technologies, religions, and diseases across different regions.

💡Natural resources

Natural resources are materials and energy sources found in nature that can be used for economic gain or to support life. The video emphasizes the historical exploitation of natural resources and its impact on the environment, as well as the need for a more sustainable approach to resource management.

💡Cultural heritage

Cultural heritage encompasses the tangible and intangible aspects of a society's past and present, including its history, traditions, and expressions. In the video, the speaker reflects on how cultural heritage is shaped by and shapes our understanding of history, particularly in relation to the environment and human-nature interactions.

💡Interconnectedness

Interconnectedness refers to the idea that various elements or systems within a context are linked and influence each other. The video underscores the interconnectedness of human societies with the natural world and how historical events cannot be fully understood in isolation from environmental factors.

💡Technological advancements

Technological advancements are developments or improvements in technology that lead to increased efficiency, capabilities, or new possibilities. In the video, the speaker discusses how technological changes throughout history have been influenced by and have influenced environmental conditions and societal structures.

💡Shock theory

Shock theory is a concept that suggests societies are often significantly affected or changed by unexpected or extreme events, leading to disruptions or transformations. In the video, the speaker uses shock theory to explain how climatic events, natural disasters, and other shocks can lead to major shifts in societal structures and historical trajectories.

Highlights

The discussion emphasizes the importance of considering human agency and climate's role in shaping history.

Peter's session highlights the need to ask different questions of the past to reveal unique insights, such as the impact of climate on historical events.

The narrative contrasts the traditional focus on 'great men' in history with a more comprehensive view that includes environmental factors.

The speaker's research process involved examining the beginning of history and reevaluating the significance of geological formations and ecosystems.

The speaker brings attention to the exploitation of natural resources and its implications on history, such as the impact of oil on the British Empire.

The speaker discusses the interconnectedness of global history, including the influence of environmental factors like solar flares and volcanic eruptions on human events.

The conversation highlights the importance of being prepared for environmental shocks, drawing parallels with driving at different speeds and the ability to react.

The discussion touches on the 'Little Ice Age' and its effects on global colonization and European history, including changes in art, literature, and technology.

The speaker notes the influence of climatic changes on historical events such as the Bengal famine and the East India Company's collapse.

The conversation underscores the significance of understanding the natural world's role in shaping human history and the interconnectedness of global events.

The speaker reflects on the importance of local solutions to environmental challenges and the potential of indigenous and small-scale communities.

The discussion includes the impact of climate change on modern warfare and the energy-intensive nature of military activities.

The speaker addresses the role of historians in connecting local histories into global narratives and the importance of India's role in these stories.

The conversation emphasizes the need for a holistic view of environmental challenges, beyond just climate change, including water stress and biodiversity loss.

The speaker expresses optimism for the future, despite the challenges, by highlighting the potential for innovation and the importance of education and policy-making.

The discussion concludes with the speaker's encouragement for the younger generation to learn from past civilizations and apply that knowledge to address current and future challenges.

Transcripts

hello everyone today's rain I think was

a great primer for Peter's

session and you know when I studied

history if I had this book I would have

loved history and I I envy his students

um for for two main reasons one is that

the Earth

transformed Des

centers to to a good extent human agency

I got to sh it at the back so you can

see

it there we go there we are yeah uh and

and looks at a an agent who's much

vaster which is climate and nature

itself and secondly he asks a totally

different set of questions to the past

which then brings up a completely

different set of

Revelations uh where most of the search

party is not and I was uh reading

through this I was reminded of wner

Heisenberg who said we don't see reality

as it is but its aspect exposed to our

questioning and Peter somewhere there's

my first question what was your process

of inquiry and questioning and uh

research for this yeah well thank you

you thank you jlf for inviting me to

come to this fantastic festival and

thank you all for being here I'm glad

you're not just here because it's

raining because the rain has stopped um

it's a good very good question I mean

this amazing Festival there's been two

parallel themes I think one has been

there's been a lot of discussion about

climate and climate change the crisis

renewable energy and then there's been

Lots on literature history and so on and

there's been not much relationship

between these two right so we hear the

history that I learned at school was

about almost all of them great men a few

great women Queen Elizabeth the first

flying the flag for for women but that

was about it and that kind of Netflix

iation of History where we're only

looking at individuals you there was a

panel this morning about biographies and

how to write biographies means that we

will go through thinking about the past

without ever

considering weather conditions use of

Natural Resources whether they're

exploited or undere exploited overe

exploited and these big themes of that

are very boring for most people but for

historians it's our bread and butter of

things like Logistics soil sedimentation

in rivers and ports um you know how

people are thinking about the natural

world it's very easy to forget because

we we tend to prioritize is human agency

but you know despite what we think we're

not the only species on this planet and

despite what we might think if we get

our own if we destroy our own

environment quickly enough there's going

to be a lot fewer of us in the future so

I think my job as a historian is to

explain how it is that we've come to

that bit in a beginning of a Bollywood

film where Shah ruk Khan is hanging on

to the skyscraper with one hand about to

fall and the good news is shro Khan

normally never Falls right that's what

happens he saves the day but how is it

that we've come to a point where we're

talking about biodiversity loss a six

mass extinction and then how have people

in the past thought about periods of

change which is what we're living

through both of Technology the natural

world uh new hierarchies inequalities

and so on and so that the the process

was how do I start at the beginning and

as a historian I was I'm embarrassed

that I have never really thought about

geological formations the roles of

ecosystem systems before humans history

for me started with Mesopotamian

civilization indis Valley and that's

such a tiny tiny tiny fraction of the

world's history and it over prioritizes

human agency so those interactions of

weather systems the natural world you

know how our world exists even today I'm

a football fan right unfortunately or

fortunately my team is

Chelsea um the current champion the best

team in the world today is Manchester

City and if I were to ask most people

why they'd say they've got the best

players uh they've got the best manager

if you really enlightened you say they'

got the best training staff the best

nutritionists but the reason why

Manchester city are the best team in the

world is because they're owned by a

sovereign wealth fund that sits on top

of the one of the world's greatest

hydrocarbon basins that was formed

hundreds of millions of years ago and

the gas that sits under that provides

almost unlimited wealth for Abu Dhabi

who owns Manchester City or part of Abu

Dhabi to to to to buy the best place

have the best facilities and those roles

in which the natural world is always

constant around us but we don't think

about it goes through to everything the

British Empire the great challenge of

the British Empire in the 20th century

was that although a quarter of the world

was colored pink there was almost no oil

and before 1900 oil wasn't really

exploited in big commercial um

quantities but in the from 1900 onwards

it started to be and that helped explain

the maps that were drawn in the Middle

East that well you know they're here

today to remind us of what happens of

the search for Commodities and resources

to think about the natural world to

think about how it's exploited and also

how the natural world shapes and

dictates where we are is hugely

important in a city like Jaipur where um

you use 1.4 million liters of water

every day in the city and you have one

water source apart from the rains that

came today you have the dam that's it so

thinking about environmental envelopes

thinking about the challenges and the

opportunities that provides I think it's

a it's a good starting point to think

about um history as a whole um jumping

on to that

there are certain Central players in the

book they include and one might never

come across them in other history

textbooks and that makes it unique solar

fles and Minima uh microbial activity

ocean currents um and and volcanic

eruptions and how they shaped human

history where there's some sense of oh

we did this but no we were being peted

you know that's that's the background

which comes at me would you uh reflect

on that well so our our planet has lots

of very complex interconnected weather

systems that they don't always behave in

the way that we imagine and expect and

they're highly highly complex um but

there are certain some there are some

certain rhythms that the Earth has in

terms of the eccentricity of its orbit

how the Sun behaves and so on that that

shape the the world that we live in now

as far as humans exist and and are are

concerned the single biggest challenge

to organized states are

shocks um if you are caught unprepared

for something then those shocks

typically will tend to increase

inequalities they will tend to lead to

State disruption and you know one

question I ask in my book a lot is when

societies collapse uh that's bad for

archaeologists right when people stop

building big temples in tial in

Guatemala that I write about the great

Mayan world around about the year 8 or

900 there's a whole system of of network

collapses not just to do with climate

changes there were there was a 70E

uh unusually long drought period but all

the overlapping ways in which uh the

ways in which the lime plaster was would

come off in when it did rain into water

tanks that then poisoned populations

with Mercury and Mercury we know is

linked to violence it's linked to

cognitive issues and so on um when those

M temples stop being built that's a

disaster if you're a historian of the

Maya people it's really bad if you're a

remember of the Mayan Elite um same with

the temples in uh you know gangai Kola

Forum this massive new Temple we heard

about the cholas yesterday uh that's

really bad but if you are peasant

working in the fields the collapse of

your priesthood and of your secular

rulers may not necessarily be a bad

thing in fact might be quite a good

thing because the the the results of

your labor don't flow to someone else so

the the challenge I think is how to

think about where States rise and fall

who do they benefit how do networks that

are look they look robust how can they

suddenly collapse and the good new well

the good or bad news is last time I was

here in Jaipur four years ago was just

as the pandemic was starting to shut us

all down in 2020 and it turns out that a

single event in a single City in a

single country locked us all up for B

best part of two years and did all those

things inequality government debts huge

shock incompetence wastage and has fed

into this kind of brittle world that we

see around us and so how you how you

factor in climate and the natural world

into much bigger things it's really

important to have Nuance this where my

book is quite long um but it's important

I think to be reentering away from it's

not just decisions made in Delhi in

London or by Donald Trump or whoever it

might be but these highly complex

interconnected networks across natural

worlds and everything else too I think

the shock Theory explains I mean it it's

just coming as a revelation where if you

look at Indian lawmaking you look at the

environment protection act it came after

the bopal gas tragedy you look at a

bunch of other things something has to

people don't seem to uh you know act

preemptively but something shocks and

then it comes well I'll give an example

so um the the awful earthquake off the

coast of Japan that that um impacted the

terrible tsunami um uh that that then

led to the destabilization of Fukushima

uh nuclear facility as a direct result

of that the new anti-nuclear lobber in

Germany which was extremely has always

been very powerful the green lobby in

Germany is very powerful and very

successful in translating election

results into seats in Parliament and to

being part of the government uh decided

this showed that nuclear power the

dangers of nuclear power and Angela

Merkel who was the belluard chancellor

at the time did what lots of politicians

do you you move and you take the the

best ideas of your Rivals right and

maybe that's a good thing in democracies

U but she announced two weeks afterwards

that the German nucle industry would be

shut down and as a result German has

Germany has a still a very high my

manufacturing base very energy intensive

uh the most logical place to replace

that energy shortage was by building new

pipelines from Russia and that

dependency on Russian energy was about

55% before the Russian invasion of

Ukraine and so the process of that Putin

had to think about what would be the

implications of a Russian invasion

military operation as he call special

military operation uh was that Europe

would starve and Europe would freeze and

that was to do with thinking about

geology of course but also about these

shock events that are deeply deeply

connected so you're exactly right youan

when you when you are not prepared for

things and then you're caught by

surprise you tend to react badly and

sometimes dangerously I suppose it's

like driving a car you don't get to do

this in jaipore except for late at night

or early in the morning you tend not to

be able to drive at 70 or 80 miles an

hour uh but if you are driving fast and

something bad bad happens your

opportunity to correct it are limited if

you're driving at 10 m an hour uh then

you're fine so preparing for those acts

are are important and you know again you

mentioned volcanoes that the main us U

Volcan volcano observatory in monoa in

Hawaii one of the world's massive super

volcanoes put out a press statement in

December 2022 which said monola is

waking up and it's quoted Benjamin

Franklin rather ominously saying if you

fail to prepare you prepare to fail so

all of these things around us pathogenic

diseases pandemics volcanic eruptions uh

earthquakes uh the ways in which we're

highly connected to each other uh makes

us all hyper fragile and when you start

to look at things connections like the

Silk Roads when you think about networks

in pre-colombian Americas if you look at

uh the ways in which uh trans Saharan

traffic has been arranged over Millennia

then things can fall and fall very very

quickly and that comes us a surprise

because most people think that Empires

are robust and they're large and they're

stable but it doesn't work that way if I

might take a specific period which which

I found very deeply interesting

interesting and and and uh you know

uncovering of many things that period

between 15th century and 18th century

where uh it's called the little ice age

and you specifically talk about the uh

Atlantic Meridian oscillation there's an

ocean current which reverses itself and

completely changes whatever is happening

in Europe including movement from there

and deaths and

uh would that be a nice thing to talk

about you know great yeah I mean so we

historians we argue a lot about names

and and if you were to ask my colleagues

who work on this all the time what the

little ice age is and when does it start

and finish there'd be as many answers

there are people on the stage but

broadly speaking there's a period

between around about, 1550 and 1800 give

or take where we see on in many parts of

the world not all parts of the world but

but we see um uh much cooler conditions

for all sorts of different reasons

partly to do with in the 1590s a set of

volcanic eruptions about five big ones

that creates in the northern hemisphere

the coldest decade for the last 2,000

years and that has lots of implications

and impacts one is that it's much harder

to heat buildings so you have rooms seem

to become smaller or they become smaller

um over the course of the 1600s partly

to do with the fact that um that you

need less energy to heat them uh one a

bunch of clever Scholars suggest that

with smaller rooms the capacity for

gossip goes up because you can talk

unobserved and that that leads into to

the ways in which narrative histories in

which poetry in which the literary

tradition start to change smaller rooms

require different kind of art to be hung

on the wall so there are lots of things

that might flow from the fact that it's

cold or it might be that those were

flowing anyway and the fact that it's

cold is completely irrelevant but the

key I think in in this as a as a period

is it's a it's a 300E period where

European Footprints expand globally so

it's a period of intense competition in

our small continent of Europe highly

unstable for many many reasons from 1350

until more or less the start of the 20th

century there wasn't a single decade

that didn't involve major confrontation

between European powers sometimes in in

pondicherry sometimes in other parts of

the world some in the Caribbean but

often in Europe itself so one of the

other themes you see alongside cooler

conditions anxieties about migration uh

you know we find graffiti in in

Elizabethan graveyards in the 1590s

saying we're going to come for anybody

who's Jewish or foreign because you are

like the Dutch you steal our women you

take away our food and you feed

yourselves the ideas of xenophobia and

the the poisonous things that come with

anxieties and shortages um you know the

interesting ways in which the later

Shakespeare plays involve winter and win

and coldness and so on Winter's taale of

course being one of those but I think

that what what happens alongside this is

you find new technologies that come

alongside change and a lot of those are

to do with

militarization some are to do with

gunpowder some are to do with

improvements in metal work some are to

do with in terms of better training so

typically battles between European

armies in the 15 1600s will have a few

thousand casualties and they'll be over

quite quickly because you can't load

your gun fast enough by 1700 they

involve tens of thousands of casualties

and they allow for Mass use of force so

in this period of of climatic change

when transatlantic trade is is booming

if you're European shipping of of

enslaved peoples from Africa in

particular to um North America South

America and the Caribbean and then the

expansions into Europe then calculations

about wind speed and how well you can

sail in Westerly or easterly winds makes

a big difference and there's a

differential of about 80 kilm per day if

you're sailing into a Westerly wind or

into easterly wind these shift roughly

every 15 years so some of these things I

think are are setting a scene for well

it's not just a little ice age it's an

age of colonizations by the Northern

Hemisphere lots of interest about saying

the reason why Europeans are able to

dominate the world is because people in

cold climates Thrive and people in

tropical climates don't and uh you've

heard Mary bid talk about the Roman

Empire you doesn't take you much to know

the Roman Empire was a nice warm place

you know typically you wore nice leather

dress uh you sit in the hills of Tuscany

today drinking Bros um but those sort of

ways in which the world interconnected

in a period of globalization where the

intense anxieties around calorie

provision the redistribution of global

crops were all part of a of a discrete

period where for lots of reasons for of

periods in the northern hemisphere there

were cooler conditions but you know from

the little I agage point of from the

perspective of India What mattered much

more were the failure of monsoon Reigns

in the 1760s that lays the conditions

for uh what's known as the Bengal famine

the deaths of well millions and maybe

many many millions and then leads to the

rupture the collapse if Willie D rimple

about the East India Company which is

directly connected to Declaration of

Independence in Northern American

colonies so none of it is driven by the

fact that it's a bit cold or there's

lots of volcanic eruptions but factoring

in wind speeds factoring in ocean

temperatures factoring in improvements

in Technologies lots of inter in

European slavers to work out how do they

drive up their profits by improving

sanitation so that they even more people

can be enslaved and shipped across to

work on lands that are more fertile in

the 1700s onwards than they were in the

1500s for example the Spanish in Florida

kept writing home for the first hundred

years saying Florida is absolutely

bloody freezing there's nothing we can

grow here it's a useless piece of land

and I I when I look at Florida or hear

about Florida that's where old people go

to rre in the sunshine and you grow grow

oranges and you play golf and the idea

this was a freezing cold place doesn't

make didn't make any sense until you

start to think well what what were the

conditions at that time so the iage can

be a capture for lots of different ideas

and themes but layering in the the

Transformations and the changes into

whatever aspect of the the histories

you're looking at you know I just think

it's a factor that's very very easy to

overlook okay um I think one of the

beautiful things about the book is that

you show interconnectedness as as the

Earth and all the various politics and

you know climatic changes as a whole and

I wonder if we can speak a little bit

more about India which which is a common

thread and you speak quite a bit about

it yeah that's a small

question I've already given quite long

answers so we could be here for a

while well you know I think you start at

the beginning I I suppose with the with

the written text the sacred the sacred

vadas onwards and then the upanishads

and the ways in which writers in the

past are thinking deeply about the

natural world and often in ideas about

Harmony and of uh of interactions with

the Divine and in the in the Hindu

traditions in the indic Traditions a bit

like in most other Faith systems the

appearance of rain from the skies on you

know when it's been um uh too hot is is

a sign of divine benevolence it's a sign

of the right prayers being said by the

right people in the right way the right

form of living morality in China for

example the famous Mandate of Heaven

that the emperor carries is is very

closely connected to um uh predictable

climatic sequences partly because

agrarian economies rely on food being

grown and if you have drought you find

it hard to grow food and if you have

floods you have crops that are washed

away so lots of States lots of belief

systems are very interested in those

interactions between the Divine trying

to work out why is there sometimes

suffering what have we done wrong uh why

are we being rewarded in connections to

moralities so those kinds of ideas I

think when you then start to move

forward in time and you see edicts like

the great Asoka saying we need to have

interdictions on cutting down the

forests we need to Marshal our resources

carefully you know we shouldn't have the

slaughter of innocent animals we need to

protect uh resources some of that is

about Imperial or Royal control over

money and and ritual and of power but

some of it is also about a much more

thoughtful engagement about making sure

there's enough for everybody to go

around and you know then when when you

move onwards you know again I I read

things like uh vamir Mira writing about

in the gup to dynasties writing about

what happens when the sun's rays are

unusually weak and the crops can't grow

and it feels like you're living in a

ghost world and he's writing this at a

time when again there is a sequence of

eruptions in the 530s 540s of our of our

era uh that are directly connected to

the really big pandemic of the period

that has an impact here in Northern

India too which we can measure um where

you see the collapse of trading networks

of what's known as the justinianic

plague a plague that spreads out

probably from folai in um in Central

Asia is carried because probably those

cold climates Drive the animals that can

help transmit the pathogen into context

that they need to find more food and

typically they'll come closer to human

settlements and when that happens the

ignition like with the bat in Wuhan

takes everything in front of it and the

yesinia the the Y pesus the Yia pesus

pathogen can establish itself in irat

Colony for 150 years you know if it's

established and it's spread not just by

rats who take all the blame in histories

here in India the rat has a very

different role to how it has in Western

histories but all sorts of different

animals can can spread these pandemics

and so the the questions about why a

diseas has come from who is being

punished and why all very closely I

think connected Into Climate

instabilities and shocks and then you

know again we like like I said with the

with the cholas one of the things that's

most interesting about the great Chola

Empire of Southern India and its

expansions and pushes eastwards is that

it doesn't do so on its own it's this is

in a period it's called the the medieval

warm period that has the same problems

that the little ice age has too in in

having the evidence to support where

it's it St the stability but the Chola

world you can't understand without

seeing it in connection with the K world

the world of pagan the great Abbasid

Empire the s in China uh the late antic

the Revival of the Byzantine empire in

the Eastern Mediterranean and these

these these worlds all mushroom together

in a Glo in an age of globalization and

and the Indian subcontinent is a pivot

that connects the North and the South

and the East and the West the mar time

connections and of course more important

the Overland ones because the Dem

demographies of Asia are Inland

particularly into the Persian world into

China and into Central Asia these great

Metropolis cities the centers of

learning so so India fits and the Indian

subcontinent the different dynasties fit

into thinking globally and of course

thinking regionally but it's a sort of

fundamental part of how we think about

history in my profession as historians

we've not been good enough about

connecting Indian histories into these

great Global narratives because it's

quite hard to do and it's quite hard to

not just be Regional but to think over

long periods of time but you know the

Indian experiences in in in terms of

consumption in terms of expenditure in

terms of the ways in which the natural

world are one of the great stories of

our common World histories and you know

it's it's great to see how many young

historians here in Indian universities

are working on these topics um because

it's and in fact was almost LED from

Scholars here um thinking about how to

engage better with the natural world and

its teachings yeah okay you know one

chapter which was specifically

interesting and I and I went through

multiple times was uh that on nature and

sacrality and

u a common sort of occurrence seemed to

be that the Genesis of any sacrality

religion Drew from nature in some sense

and then forgot about it drew from it

forgot about it and at every age there

seem to be you know who we now see as

the the Fridays of future movement the

extin I mean there was there was

somebody or some text or some poet

saying we are screwing up we got to stop

or that could have even been an emperor

and and and you speak about everything

from Gilgamesh to China to and uh and

and that repeating sense

of things have vanished and and as such

things weren't put to a stop and that

cycle seems to have continued well it it

continues now I mean you could think of

some of the climate activists I have a

huge amount of respect for as a form of

new organized religion you know there's

we have priests and pretests of this

movement a lot of them very young U but

the message of

apocalyptic uh consequences of

thoughtlessness is is one that has lots

of Echoes from different different

belief systems way back into the past I

suppose that you know as a as someone

who's also an economic historian I

suppose the kind of starting point for

me is looking at at how priests would

established control of the secal message

is what I suppose you're also asking

about and some of that has to do with

the establishment of writing systems the

code ification of knowledge the

protection of knowledge

universities they are specifically

exclusive you know they they they don't

let people in that's like my University

you have to apply but most people don't

get in you know we could be teaching

everybody for free but we can't we don't

we don't do our courses online we charge

people we control the message please I

hope my vice Chancellor isn't watching

because I could be in trouble for saying

that but you know I think that the the

the story of religions is also about the

establishment of a Priestly class often

with a dual balance withing L power that

controls messages and enforces them and

establishes sacred texts that have are

in harmony the tripitaka tradition of

Buddhism is about saying there's one set

of texts you can't have divergences you

know the Christian faith where I come

from uh again the church councils that

insist what the profession of Faith

looks like insist on what the messages

are what counts as heresy tears the

church apart repeatedly many many many

times it's the same thing with the

judaic tradition same thing with the

Holy Quran so we see this in in many

many different ways about who carries

the message and who has the right to to

protect knowledge and you know for

example in the in the indic Traditions

not just in Hinduism the complexity of

those stories is a barrier right it's it

it's designed to the only people who

have spent a long time

studying the the the Raman the

mahabarata vas Etc can really truly

understand these works and that's a way

of saying that you need to study and

that that power should go to the people

who control those and often those fit

into building of structures of temples

agricultural control and often becomes a

power rival to the church so or to to

the to the state so we found for example

in um in Pagan in the Kim world we were

just now in in Neil Camp not too far

away from about about an hour's drive

from here where so many temples get

built that there's a Suffocation process

that kills economic production because

these temples control so much land they

have so many tax concessions that

they're supporting so many priests who

are unproductive economic units because

people like us who have to study we

write books but we don't build roads we

don't dig sewage we don't recycle other

people's waste we uh so uh and that

means that the existence of a priesthood

is very important in that context of of

sacral messages and how the emergence of

a intellectual class uh sits alongside

um economic power is kind of one of the

stories I think that is unique to

civilize Urban societies it doesn't look

the same in many nomadic or oral

traditions where you have shamans who

play a role but the shaman is usually a

very small part demographically of of a

of a wider tribal unit there's normally

one or series of of whereas priesthoods

there are often thousands you know

thousands and thousands of Priests of

rabbis of imams of holy men and the more

you have of those the harder those U

balances of intellectual inequality as

well as well as economic that's if if we

can uh look at that a bit more deeply

the sort of interplay between uh climate

uh and and inequality and what that uh

sort of a relationship is and uh the

perhaps a related question would be you

know if we could speak about the latter

part of the book The Modern period um

and you speak about a range of

conferences and treaties which make

these big decisions and do they trickle

down to the ground um well you've

written about this what do you think um

I I'd give a short answer to that but

but please i' I'd like toar what you

think yeah in some sense uh I've felt

and I'm I'm definitely not a historian

so I think good Solutions or good

practices relationalities are unique so

they sort of M emerge locally but at the

same time they seem to be vulnerable to

uh big forces so so so I'm at a tussle

you know so you know what's the middle

path uh would be the question I'd ask

myself yeah you know I think I think

local communities wherever they are

normally are quite good at trying to

find Solutions you know that you find

that with indigenous peoples tribal

peoples Forest peoples small villages

tend to be quite good because the

interconnections of kinship the

interconnections of ritual and the fact

that everybody is linked in together um

that that obviously can help you know my

view is I'm I'm highly critical in my

book about the problems that cities give

us CI give us lots of wonderful things

they give us literature festivals for

one thing they give us the opportunity

to meet each other to buy and sell

things to listen to new ideas to

exchange genetics which I'm not going to

talk about again today but you know the

way which we can meet each other and and

have different relationships hugely

wealthy but cities are also parasites

because they are not producers they're

consumers they drag in they have energy

needs they have water needs they create

problems here in Jaipur this morning the

particulate matter is four times wh show

deemed safe levels right so everybody

here breathing this air we are

experiencing shorter like in India in

2018 1.6 million people died from fossil

fuel complications to do with air

pollution right that's a 18% of all

deaths in 2018 globally have been

attributed to air quality pollutions and

so when you live

intensively uh you tend to bet on a

shortterm answer rather than the

long-term one but most of the societies

that I've spent my career being

interested in pre-mongol step nomadic

peoples oral Traditions are very very

good at balancing environmental

challenges because they have some

resilience built in them and cities tend

not to and perhaps it I think it's no

coincidence that those histories of

nomadic peoples from the Mongols through

to the mugal here now you know the

narrative changing in

India uh you know has has always been

highly prora very negative but these

people are considered barbaric people

who don't live in cities who don't want

to have priests don't want to have

libraries don't have universities but

actually the sophistication of

governance the sophistication of

stability are are are in some way and

the complexity are often hugely

impressive to to look at so I think that

trying to think through what are the

costs of how we live um it's it's really

important but you know here no one in

jao wants the air quality to be worse no

one will leave here and go I'm really

pleased it's only four times not five

times everyone thinks how do we make

that happen and we're slightly at a log

Jam now where most of us think well it's

the government govern's job or it's the

you know the the city's responsibility

to impose new policies but I I hope that

we're at some kind of Tipping Point

where people are taking that envelope

around us more seriously you know in

Afghanistan in 2017 eight times more

civilians died from air pollution than

from um violence and attacks of any kind

so you know it's it's how to implement

and you know we did a panel this morning

thinking about some very very small

changes you know one of the thing I'm

slightly obsessed about at the moment is

is about lack of air conditioning in hot

locations and I don't just mean India in

New York City uh lots of exams get done

in the in the height of the summer and

poor neighborhoods and schools don't

have AC and there was some big research

published in the last couple of years

that show that tens of thousands of

students fail their graduation because

they SAT exams on hot days right and we

know that when it's hot your ability to

concentrate your cognitive your memory

recall all of things these things change

when it's hot for every degree um

there's a 6% rise in domestic violence

here in India above 30 degrees

Centigrade right this is all lots of

Scholars working on things like this so

one question would be why do we do exams

in the middle of the summer should we

have the the school Academic Year ending

in December where it's cooler should we

should we as a government prioritize

putting AC into low-income schools to

make sure that when kids sit exams

they're doing it equally rather than

kids in well established schools with

good air conditioning have a genuine

physical Advantage so some of these

things can be quite small steps they

quite a bit of bravery and they require

our politicians who I you know we just

heard Shashi theu to have a chance he's

great not don't mean Shashi but Mr Theo

I should say his Excellency um we need

to give our politicians more of a chance

to be educated you know so uh we have a

school of government in Oxford where we

are trying to encourage State leaders or

or high representatives to spend two or

three weeks every summer coming to

Oxford to to learn what are the latest

things in Social inequality in uh Urban

regeneration in sustainable cities

because if you are a policy maker or a

lawmaker you've got no time to read and

there's no structure to it you might

pick up your book or my book and be

inspired hopefully you will but having

that educative process is is important

for those who we vote into office in the

Democratic world and and it's it's a

it's a it's a lap it's a problem now I

think about education how do we give

more tools to people who can make policy

to to do small things and to do them

effectively but like I said I hope we're

at a Tipping Point where there are lots

of reason to be more optimistic in the

coming years so you know my last

question perhaps before we break for uh

you know questions from the audience um

what was beautiful um you know through

different chapters you know recently the

Earth commission released uh Quantified

all the Earth system boundaries whether

it be biodiversity or or aerosol loading

pollution water biochemical flows and um

not just climate climate is just one of

them and perhaps the threshold of

climate as yet has not been crossed you

know that 1.2 de or whatever warming and

uh you look at all of these things you

look at all the Earth system boundaries

whether it be nature Extinction of

species or pollution as you spoke and

water and uh and and to have woven

together this this uh tapestry through

which to see the past and uh what was

that like and yeah well it's a very nice

question CU it sounds like I did a good

job so thank you I mean I I think you

know the climate and the warming thing

is gets all the headlines but you know

here in India the primary thing is first

of all water stress um so um in 2020 350

billion cubic meters of water was taken

from the groundwater in the northern

Indian Plains and uh that along with

glacia melt has moved the position of

the North and the South Pole right that

that's quite something uh in Europe 10

years ago 19% of Europe was water

stressed we've had a state of emergency

announced in Catalonia around barel ER 3

days ago to prevent people from using

water in the way in which they're used

to you know in my country where

everything everyone knows that England

didn't do very well in the World Cup

cricket and I from what I heard we're

not doing so well this afternoon in the

Test match but the other thing everybody

knows about England is it rains quite a

lot but in the UK our expectations are

that by 2030 our demand for water is

going to exceed our um uh our ability to

provide water by

40% because we we're using more water to

make things to wash to to do all these

and there are finite supplies so we

haven't built a single Reservoir we

haven't built a single water capture

program for 40 years in the in the UK

and you know you see the dam here is

shortages you see with our own eyes so

water's a key thing habitat loss and

deforestation of course changes

environments for other animals and so on

and so pollinator loss is a huge problem

globally and and losing animals and

creatures you know we tend to think we

must save the Rhino we must save the

tiger we must save animals that we

beautify but you know it's the little

ones that we don't really like you know

Katherine Rond was talking about spiders

today you know it's quite right spiders

bugs you know the little things the

little flies that that fertilize our our

crops and our food if those disappear

then you know you're in real we're in

real trouble so so trying to be holistic

and trying to not just think about

climate but the natural world as a whole

and you know to try to give a little bit

of Hope as well so I did the audio book

of this one my my Publishers asked me

who I'd like to do who i' like to do the

audio recording and I said what do you

mean I said well give us a couple of

names so I went but everybody must say

George Clooney and okay do it yourself

so I recorded it and as I come towards

the end of my book and I say you know uh

the Earth survey done in the UK by the

British government by descripta says

that globally we're using 1.6 times the

the Earth Resources every year you know

we're crazy as a species to accelerate

our own demise and that my producer

knocked on the window and I was reading

through the last few pages and he said

look I'm really sorry I find this quite

difficult to see what reality looks like

you know when you start layering on what

the problems are not just well 1.5 and

so on but you know the the you know

contraception is ineffective if it's

stored above 30° right all these things

that are coming towards us maternal

healthc care the difficulties cognitive

Etc and and I said don't worry don't

worry it's going to be better and then I

put on some pages where we can be

optimistic and

the good news about about um knowledge

Keepers and universities is that we are

producing huge amounts of R&D huge

amounts of innovation lots of amazingly

exciting ideas you the Scott polar

Institute in Cambridge about you know

crazy ideas about how to mitigate and

maybe even reverse climate change most

scientists in the climate space are now

thinking not how do we slow it down

we've gone so far we're past 1.5 how do

we actually reverse and you know

geoengineering is a is a tricky one um

but you know there are lots of reasons

to be positive and and optimistic but

you know I think that the Cascade effect

of trying to look at everything in front

of us and not just at warming world is

pretty sobering and you know it's a job

of someone like me as an educator to

just explain where we are it's the job

of the people we elect to that work out

what we should do and to you know and

for investors to think about what kind

of solutions they want and for voters

decide in countries like ours where

we're lucky enough to choose our own

leaders who do we want to be preparing

for I suppose some opportunities in the

future but also the real challenges I

mean there are 500 roughly emerging

infectious diseases they're all highly

susceptible to climatic change we'll

have a world by 2080 where 90% is

susceptible to malaria and Deni fever as

it happens my university has produced a

malaria vaccine that's now being rolled

out into Cameroon if that works if we

can stay ahead of genetic mutations then

there's lots of reasons to be hopeful

but you know we should be planning ahead

like Benjamin Franklin

said let's have some questions now um

let let me look uh that lady in white

there in the middle in the middle

standing

yeah am I audible yeah yeah uh thank you

for the talk sir sir my question

pertains to the methodology of global

history itself how can one practice this

kind of History given uh like we have so

many sources how does one filter out the

sources and how does one identify

connections on such a vast scale

thank you are you a

historian I am doing my masters in

history currently yes good for you well

done good luck uh look it's really hard

and and there are lots of ways lots of

answers one could give one is high

levels of collaboration you know no no

no historian works on their own I mean

not just because we talk to each other

but because we're reading each other's

work all the time so it's a hugely

collaborative process so please don't

email me about to ask where the

footnotes are in the book they're all

online I think I've got 4,700 footnotes

to show that there are all these

wonderful Scholars who are working

together uh there are lots of projects

uh where we collaborate I'm running a a

a a levium project in usbekistan on

river systems to look at how Rivers have

changed over time and my collaborators

I'm working with some are archaeologists

some are river Specialists uh some are

people who are Osteo you interested in

in um in bone archaeology some are Arch

obotan ists skills that I wouldn't be

able to acquire so lot is how do we

collaborate uh with global histories you

know like all history it's expensive to

train young historians because you have

to pay fees but you got to learn

languages and you got to learn

methodologies but it is possible to do

but the more we talk to each other the

more we learn from each other the easier

it

becomes good luck with good luck with

your studies yeah any more questions uh

we can yes please yeah yes

please just

shout oh

great

uh really enjoyed reading your book very

voluminous but your last two

chapters uh would you like to expand on

it in the future with military emissions

something on that especially since since

1991 we are very much in a unipolar

world where Warfare seems to have become

a normal feature of

Life uh yeah okay I'll try and do a

short a short answer yeah you know the

US Department of Defense is the biggest

institutional user of fossil fuels in

the world would rank if it was an if it

was an independent state flying planes

blowing up tanks building missiles it's

hugely energy intensive for Metals for

everything rare Earths and so on um a

report that came out at the end of last

year by the Department of Defense

estimates the impact of climate change

to US military installations that puts

the budget to fix these at $380 billion

just for us defense facilities they're

about 560,000 US facil military

facilities around the world which is a

lot India doesn't have quite so many but

any state that is involved in missile

exploration space exploration like India

is with its f blander with its programs

of the Moon investing in the military is

extremely expensive um and it's highly

energy consumptive uh would you if I was

to bet will we spend more in our

different countries on defense in 10

years time than we do today yes I will

we spend a lot more on defense than we

do today I would also answer yes uh but

you know historians are very

pessimistic uh I've got a much more

optim istic wife that I tells me to keep

happy and smiling and not scare people

because why read a book if we're all

going to die I think if you're going to

die then you might as well read a good

book so you might as well read mine uh

but no I think I think defending on

defense it is changing I mean

nowadays you we're about you know it

takes time to catch up but submarines

aircraft carriers big programs are

probably in an era now where small

Technologies make a big difference the

world that we should be protecting

against are things like cyber attacks

where one person with a laptop whether

they're in state employee or not can

bring down

energy grids water systems and those

things are difficult to protect against

so yeah the militarization of our world

is is a real problem for energy for

climate for material consumption and for

hierarchies people invest in these

things can make big returns and a more

fractured worlds means bigger

opportunities for those who are willing

to do

so any any young people have questions

here uh with the red scarf there yeah

yeah first gentleman of the Red

Scarf there's a there's a child here

with a question yes please yeah uh you

first ma'am you first yeah hello if if

there's a small child with a question

here yeah

on we'll come back uh hello sir hello

sir thank you for coming to my talk

you're the future you're the Next

Generation that will save the mistakes

My Generation made okay so so my

question is that actually I am also like

taking Inspirations from almost like

many writers and I want want to ask that

sir when you started your journey

getting into the getting submerged into

the writings and all so sir what was

your first thought that no I'll write

this how did you conclude that what

topic to pick it was like it is very

difficult for me to pick a particular

topic that which one should I start

with I mean I'm going to say that you

youan done a great job moderating but

when I come back to jao next time will

you come and be in discussion with me on

the

stage well I I'm going to give I'm going

to give you an answer that's going to be

very unhelpful but will you come and

find me afterwards I'll give you a copy

of my silk words illustrated book for

younger readers right so come and find

me and I will give that to you as a as a

present but um

the the least she you should all give

this young lady but anyway um no my the

answer is I is is the answer you don't

want me to give which is don't pick read

everything you know if you're in a

buffet try everything until you find the

one thing you think tastes and looks

better than anything else and we are all

made different the things I chose no one

was interested in you know no one

thought that um anyone would read my

books even my last publisher didn't

didn't refuse to publish a book called

The Silk rose that I wrote so I had to

move publisher to my current home

Bloomsbury thank you very much bloombury

but you need to find something that is

passionate for you that speaks to you

speaks to your heart and your soul and

the thing that you want to then explain

to other people and historians are

people who tell other people's stories

and if you can do that as well as you've

done this morning that would be great

but find the thing that you want rather

than listen to some old old spanker like

me that gentleman with the red scarf

there hello uh yeah uh so I just wanted

to uh know your opinion on the younger D

impact Theory

10,000 years ago I think there's a view

coming that prehistory didn't start from

civilizations but there was civilization

before 10,000 BC and there was a

cataclysmic event which wiped out uh you

know a ancient form of civilization do

you have any opinions on that uh I don't

know if you've heard people like Graham

Hancock and Randall castle and people

like that uh yeah I mean okay well the

younger so the younger about 10 12,000

years ago it's a sort of it's a it's a

climatic boundary and and um climatic

boundaries a bit like temples for

archaeologists everybody loves round

numbers right 10,000 12,000 years ago uh

these ideas that there's a sort of spark

moment where humans develop agriculture

or start living in cities is not uh

School of scholarship to which I belong

I think the organic small incremental

changes to be very careful about what

we're thinking about when it comes to

cities settle Lifestyles Hunter

Gatherings this is a much more Blended

period so I I'd be very

hesitant to pin too much on the younger

d as apart from the fact that there is a

clear moment where we're moving into a

new geological time zone we got one more

time for one more before the buzz one

more quick question quick question so

young young person there with the pink

hat young boy there or or a girl

yeah yeah you you with the pink cap

there and white uh

sweater are there any knowledges from

the past civilizations that we can use

to help us against in our fight against

climate change and that we can be able

to make predictions for our future where

the climate and what are

concerned I'm just wondering if you can

catch Peter after this if the children

can catch you after you come and get a

book from me but this that that question

and the young ladies all your questions

is the reason why I love this Festival

it is such a privilege to have questions

like this Brave young people asking is

there stuff we can learn yes is the is

the short answer but come come and find

me as well with the pink hats Ju Just a

last line the subtitle of the book is an

untold history and in its vastness and

vividness it's truly that and I hope

you'll buy it yeah thank you thank

you