How To Find MILLION DOLLAR Business Ideas That WORK | Noah Kagan
Summary
TLDRこのスクリプトは、クリエイターやビジネスオーナーが新しいビジネスを始める際の成功の秘訣を説明しています。成功するビジネスは、顧客のニーズを満たすことを重視し、継続して成長していくことが重要です。また、リソースを効率的に活用し、コミュニティや顧客と協力することで、ビジネスを成功させることができます。このスクリプトは、ビジネスを始める前に必要な準備、市場調査、顧客とのコミュニケーションの重要性についても触れています。
Takeaways
- 🚀 成功しないと知らないことがあるから、新しいことを試みることが重要です。
- 📈 ビジネスを始めるのは簡単で、自分の問題を解決することから始めるのが良いでしょう。
- 💡 ビジネスアイデアを見つけるためには、人生を通して観察し、何かを書き留めることが必要です。
- 🤔 何を長く続けたいかを考える前に、自分が本当に興味を持っていることを確かめる必要があります。
- 🛠️ ビジネスを始める際は、自分の問題を解決することから始め、他の人にも役立つかどうかを確認することが大切です。
- 📊 ビジネスの急速な成長は素晴らしいですが、徐々に成長することも大切です。
- 💰 収益を最大化することは重要ですが、ビジネスを楽しむことが同じくらい重要です。
- 🔧 失敗を恐れず、何度でも試行錯誤を繰り返すことがビジネスの成功につながります。
- 🗣️ 顧客とコミュニケーションをとり、彼らのニーズを満たすことがビジネス成功の鍵となります。
- 📌 ビジネスにおいては、継続的な成長と改善が求められます。
- 🎯 目標に向かって一歩一歩進むことが、最終的な成功につながるでしょう。
Q & A
成功バイアスとは何ですか?
-成功バイアスとは、何か良いことを行ったからといって、自分がすべての良いことを知っているという考え方のバイアスです。これは、人々が初めの段階を忘れてしまい、継続的に同じことを繰り返し行くことで成功を追求する傾向を指します。
Twitterで共有されているプレイブックとは何ですか?
-Twitterで共有されているプレイブックとは、成功した人々が自分のビジネスやマーケティングの手法を共有するドキュメントやガイドのことです。これらは、ビジネスを成功させるためのノウハウや戦略を示すものですが、必ずしもすべてのケースで成功するとは限りません。
Appsumoのビジネスモデルはどのように進化しましたか?
-Appsumoのビジネスモデルは、最初はソフトウェアのパッケージ販売から始まりましたが、後に個別のデイリーデアルへとシフトしました。この変化は、経済と広告の実態を理解し、どちらがより効果的であるかを判断した結果です。
ノアはなぜGoogle Analyticsを使いこなせなくなりましたか?
-诺亚は、Google Analyticsが複雑になり、コードの変更や高額な代理店への料金支払いが必要になったため、使いこなせなくなりました。これは、古くなっているか、またはブローテッドなソフトウェアを代替するツールが市場にあることを示しています。
何がノアに「绿色的」ビジネス書籍を書くことを決めたのを妨げなかったのですか?
-ノアの出版社は、「绿色的」ビジネス書籍を書くことを好ましく思わなかったが、ノアはそれを続け、グリーン色を採用しました。これは、お金に関するビジネスに绿色を結びつけ、ポジティブな印象を与えるためです。
Appsumoの哪款产品在一年内取得了突破并有望达到百万美元的销售额?
-AppsumoのCast Magicという製品が一年内に突破を遂げ、百万美元の収益を目指しています。これは、ポッドキャストの制作者にとっての生産者を置き換えるツールであり、自動的にショーノートを作成するソフトウェアです。
何为SaaS领域的机遇?
-SaaS领域的机遇在于寻找能够取代过时或昂贵软件的工具,以及利用AI技术创造新的SaaS产品。此外,关注那些人们愿意投入金钱或时间的问题,并考虑如何利用技术来解决这些问题,也是SaaS领域的机会所在。
如何测试并验证新的商业想法?
-新的商业想法をテストし、検証する方法の1つは、まずオーディエンスやコミュニティを構築し、その人たちにアイデアを示してフィードバックを得ることです。その後、無料で提供することで、そのアイデアが市場に受け入れられるかどうかを確認できます。
创业者在开始新项目时应该注意什么?
-创业者在开始新项目时应该关注自己真正热衷的领域,并确保有很多人对该项目感兴趣。此外,他们应该准备好在项目上持续工作多年,并在开始之前进行充分的市场调研和验证。
创业者如何保持动力和热情?
-创业者可以通过追求自己真正关心的事业、与他们的社区和顾客保持联系、以及庆祝成功和失败来保持动力和热情。同时,他们应该接受拒绝和挫折作为成长的一部分,并学会在这些经历中寻找学习和成长的机会。
Outlines
🚀 ビジネス成長と成功の偏見
成功体験から生じる偏見について話されています。成功したことで全ての良いことを知っていると感じがちですが、実際には始まりは同じではありません。人々が本当に求めることを発見し、それを提供することが重要です。また、Twitterなどで共有されているプレイブックが実際には商品を売っていることもあるため、自分のビジネスを10倍に拡大する前に、実際にテストすることが重要です。
💡 チャットボットの進化とビジネスの停滞
チャットボットが進化し、未来には誰とも話せないようなボットが登場するだろうと予想されています。しかし、これらの技術やビジネスモデルを追い求める同时に、停滞したままのビジネスや市場を見直すことが重要です。例えば、Google AnalyticsやDocuSignのようなサービスは古く、改善の余地があります。また、AI技術を活用して新しいSaaSを考案することも良いアイデアの源となります。
📈 ビジネスの多様化とリーダーシップ
複数のビジネスを展開し、それぞれのビジネスにGMやCEOを配置することで、リーダーシップを発揮しています。また、重要な人物を雇うことで、ビジネスの停滞を防ぎ、新たなアイデアや戦略を考案しています。実際に、彼らのアドバイスを有償で得ることが、ビジネスを成功させるために重要な要素となっています。
💰 収益と投資のバランス
ビジネスにおいては、収益と投資のバランスが重要です。例えば、アプリSumoでは、製品を急激に増やして収益を維持しながら利益を減らすことを学びました。また、マーケティングやプロモーションに投資する前に、実際にテストしてみることが大切です。ビジネスの成長には、失敗を繰り返し、より良い方法に至るプロセスが存在します。
🌐 オンラインビジネスのコミュニケーション
オンラインビジネスにおいては、顧客とのコミュニケーションが重要です。例えば、アプリSumoでは、顧客の声を聞くことで、彼らが求めるものを提供することができました。また、チームやパートナーとのコミュニケーションも重要です。そして、ビジネスにおいては、自分のアイデアをテストし、実際に動かしてみることが重要です。
📚 知識の共有とコミュニティの構築
知識や経験を共有することで、コミュニティを構築し、ビジネスの成長を促進することができます。例えば、Noah Kaganは、自分自身のビジネスの知見を共有することで、他のビジネスオーナーやマーケターとのコミュニケーションを築いています。また、彼の新しい書籍「Million Dollar Weekend」も、ビジネスの成功に必要なノウハウを提供するものです。
Mindmap
Keywords
💡成功バイアス
💡顧客とのコミュニケーション
💡アイデアのテスト
💡キャストマジック
💡AIとSaaS
💡チャットボット
💡ビジネスの利点
💡ブートストラップ
💡リスクと報酬
💡マーケティング
💡起業家精神
Highlights
The importance of finding something people want and delivering it to them is emphasized, which is a key principle for any successful venture.
The speaker shares a personal story of how they quickly expanded their product line from 600 to 13,000 items, which resulted in a painful and expensive lesson about the need for testing ideas before fully investing in them.
The value of talking to customers, listening to your team, and communicating with partners is highlighted as a crucial part of the innovation process.
The speaker discusses the concept of '10xing' a business, which means rapidly scaling up operations, and shares their experience of how it led to a significant loss.
The importance of testing ideas in small increments before making large-scale changes is emphasized to avoid costly mistakes.
The speaker shares their experience with Wall Street Survivor, a financial education platform they built, which became the largest real-time stock market game on the internet.
The concept of the ACP (Audience, Community, Product) funnel is introduced as a method for validating business ideas through community engagement.
The speaker emphasizes the importance of honesty and transparency in building a business, especially when it comes to engaging with an audience or community.
The value of starting with an audience or community before selling a product is discussed, as it allows for real-time iteration and validation of ideas.
The speaker shares their approach to business and content creation, which involves being the first customer and ensuring there's validation from others before building an audience.
The importance of including the community and audience in the business process is highlighted, as it builds trust and engagement.
The speaker discusses the concept of 'bootstrapping' and how it applies to starting and growing a business without external funding.
The speaker shares their experience with hiring friends and personal network members, emphasizing the trust and reliability that comes with these relationships.
The value of focusing on one thing at a time to achieve product-market fit is discussed, as spreading oneself too thin can lead to a loss of direction and effectiveness.
The speaker talks about the success of Boring Marketing, a business they started which reached a million dollars in revenue in just under a year by focusing on SEO and AI SEO.
The importance of being open to learning from failures and rejections is emphasized, as these experiences can lead to valuable insights and eventual success.
The speaker shares their approach to business ideas, which involves observing life, writing down observations, and finding opportunities that excite them.
The speaker encourages entrepreneurs to find something they're excited about and ensure there's a market demand for it, as this passion and validation are key to long-term success.
Transcripts
I heard Chris Williamson talk about this
where there's a success bias where just
because you do something good you think
you know everything good the beginnings
are always the same right find something
people really want and you deliver it to
them you know you hear you go on Twitter
and everyone's got this Playbook they've
shared and then you realize they're
selling you a course we thought hey if
you 10x it cuz you see on Twitter that
10 Xing is the way I very quickly ran in
the wrong direction we went from 600 to
13,000 products and that was a great
painful expensive reminder around how do
you test things before you go invest in
them so I could have easily tested from
600 products to 650 and saw that the
team was like this is stupid but now
it's going back to the basics of how
often are you talking to your customers
how often you listen to your team how
often are you talking to your partners
and then as we have these crazy ideas
that we know are always right how do we
test them before we then double down and
really invest in them dude I was going
to tell you that the cover of your book
is so
good it's so good thank you it can also
double as a flashlight you can also
throw in the back of your you know uh
jacket as a bike protector if you're
biking the funnest crazy thing about
this the book cover it's not by chance
and our my publisher did not want to do
it they actually sat me down with the
top guy at penguin and was like we don't
want to do this are you sure and I said
yeah and uh what was really interesting
if you go look on Amazon or a bookstore
there's no green business books which is
kind of funny given that a lot of
business is about money uh they think
it's taboo or bad luck and but we tested
it and I also like the color myself yeah
and it's green is like go green is money
so has a lot of has a lot of good going
for it well I I was thinking about this
with appsumo where when I started what
14 years ago I was like Star reviews are
kind of boring let's do Taco reviews and
somehow we still do it right and I think
with all of our businesses how do you
have a little fun with it or where you
look at it you're like H it's kind of
little little bit different and uh you
know I think over time that we all we do
tend to get normalized because it's like
all right that's why a lot of the shows
look the same and it's why all these
backgrounds on YouTube videos now
everyone's got the same fake plant and
so just kind of being mindful how to
differentiate a little bit and and the
green definitely is a part of that well
I'm happy you're here uh million dooll
weekend is the book and so you're Mr
million doll idea
now so it's it's only fitting that we
spend about an hour talking about some
of your million dooll ideas I just
literally did another million-dollar
business say more um you know you sent
me this question stuff which was good I
like how you sent it to me like 10
minutes before the show like hey come up
with really great ideas I mean dude if
it wasn't you I would send it like two
weeks in advance but it's you thank you
you're you're a fountain you're fountain
ideas you know I the easiest and best
problems are always the ones you have
yourself and that's what I always come
back to so you ask for some of the
opportunities one look for tools to
replace teams right like there's a tool
on app called cast Magic I think in less
than a year they had a million AR so
they replace producers for podcast where
the software automatically creates all
your show notes stuff uh they launched
have done super well but these other
tools that I think are going to be super
big are what are tools to replace
outdated kind of bloated software or
more expensive software so one of the
easy ones I think is going to easily get
its ass kicked is Google analytics I
don't know how to use Google analytics
anymore it's like and then you have to
change code and then you have to pay a
bunch of money to these agency people
who you know DM you on LinkedIn so the
other thing that pissed me off and I and
I saw in our bill on appsumo and this
another way to look at problems look at
your bills was DocuSign I it's like
non-locked in software that's pretty
basic at this point it's almost a
commodity but they're still charging
hundreds of dollars a month and so in 48
hours I was able to sell $3,000 worth
without using any social media uh or any
of my email list and in pre-sales to a
DocuSign alternative for life which will
launch in 30 days on appsumo and then I
believe I would I would bet I'll bet a
million dollars it'll make a million
dollars in a year wow so what's your
like where do you think what is the
state of SAS right now like where where
are the opportunities in SAS is it to
basically look at the docu signs of the
world and be like I'm going to out
compete them in in pricing or is it
looking at replacing teams and thinking
about how do I use AI to create new new
SAS using AI it all starts with a
customer and that's where most people I
see on Twitter getting wrong like and
people you know especially if you're in
engineer right you you think all right
what's a solution now I can use with
this new Cool Tech and no one cares
about your Tech and no one cares about
your solution they care about their
problems and so that that's what I
always cut back to which is what are the
problems that people are either spending
money or time on ideally yourself and
then what are what's Tech maybe that can
assist with that so you know you can go
to absum and it's a really interesting
insight into what's popular in software
what's becoming popular so I'm just
looking at the the website today as well
we're seeing a lot of no code platforms
still super popular people are looking
for more solutions around that uh chat
Bots that just do it for you you you see
them now and and it's going to be
exciting where do you ever use these
Bots and they're so annoying it's just
like the bot is so annoying it's like a
it's I don't I don't want to make a joke
here but there's going to be bots of the
future and I definitely think we'll see
where you're not sure who you're talking
to and that's just an obvious one people
are going to think of but again with all
these things I would try to think about
who do I have access to or who is it
easy for me to then sell these types of
products to and for me I like selling to
you know solar preneurs and small
business owners like myself um and is
that because you're one of those people
so you just find it easier to sell to
one of those people yeah because I know
what a good price for myself you know
like there's cly for like 10 bucks a
month or 20 bucks a month and you don't
use it that often and the text like
frankly over bloated so we launched tidy
cal.com maybe two years ago and that's
doing $3,000 in profit a day at $29 for
life and the economics make sense and we
do have a team that keeps supporting but
if we stopped I'm pretty sure it would
stay around the $3,000 if not $2,500 a
day in profit and it's a great entry
point into the abso ecosystem which is
why we build our Originals products
other I'm looking at the team pulled
together other ideas uh this is
interesting so zappier competitors so
integration platforms as a service so I
think there's there's still a lot of
room around like how do all these
separate software products talk together
uh again for everyone out there who do
you already have access to or audience
of that you can then easily try to sell
these twoos I think so many times people
build it and they're like I'm going to
go on Twitter now and be like Greg and
Noah and then hope customers just
magically come or I'm going to spam DM
them and that just doesn't work or if it
does it's gonna take a very long time or
what they say is and I'm sure you get
this often is people will reach out to
create like creators like us and they'll
be like hey you know my product's
perfect I just need a Creator I just
need a Creator and usually that's not
the Magic
Bullet
yeah I like the idea of the pro like
even for yourself so you know people are
like well how do I think of a business
idea or problem so like you're you're a
Creator and you're an investor like what
are the things that you're spending your
time doing today I mean for me you know
you mentioned cast magic I just had
lunch with Ramone from cast magic and
I'm coming from lunch like I just like I
just like finished my sandwich rushed
here and uh he's got a great business
and he told I was like how'd you get
your first customers he goes appsumo and
he was saying like yeah I'm looking you
know at creators as a channel to to grow
and while I think that yes if he had a
Creator if you were behind it let's say
it could grow a lot faster I think
there's something to be said about being
constrained and building your own media
building your own you know your own
community and not being just like how
you don't want to be uh dependent on BCS
you don't necessarily want to be
dependent on creators yeah and but yeah
going back to your question it's like
what am I focusing on like tools like
cast magic I think are really really
interesting tools that could save me
time make me more productive and unlock
the potential I mean I've got 65 people
on my team right now so if I could make
them more productive and make their
lives easier and happier that's that's
worth it for me to uh explore I think
with this AI stuff it's it what's
interesting it's like hey how do you use
the software so I can fire
you there's like an unsaid thing about
that in different businesses where with
our we have an operations team where
they get the copy and it is more
complicated to get you know how do we
write good copy how do we get a video
for a partner we're like ah let's use
some Ai and it's like well that means
I'm gonna have to fire Susan we don't
have a Susan but if we did it'd be like
I don't want to fire Susan so you know
it's like ATMs and a lot of evolution
technology like 20 years ago the
internet just came around which is crazy
right and you think about how many
trillion of dollars have been generated
by the internet and then you have to
think okay with AI what what's that same
new level that of doors opening up and I
can either be on one side and be a
victim of it or I can be a little bit
more empowered and think about how to
take advantage of it and uh it's kind of
like you look at salaries there's a
reason some people make 10 times more
than others because they're creating 10
times more value I saw an article I
think it might have been in the Wall
Street Journal that said that uh gen Z
feels that accountants are uncool and
therefore are not applying to like CPA
schools and accountancy schools and now
they're having to raise the average
salary for accountants and and and sort
of people in that field and all I was
thinking about when I was reading that
is like the the most uncool jobs are
going to be the first ones to get
replicated by AI or software of some
sort yeah software some sort I mean I
think that's I think your Point's great
is that that's also an opportunity yeah
right like hey people are having a hard
time finding accountants like either one
create an accounting school or some way
to get them excited maybe paying them
twice as much or find a way to create an
opportunity to have software that can
replace that I I mean yeah [ __ ] like
this like taxes suck Most accountants
suck hiring still how is hiring not
solved it's insane it it's just like d
hiring is so hard it is so hard it's
like I it keeps me up at night I've been
using the site hire mymom.com and I
hired this woman she was an EA for like
a a professional sports team CEO and I
was like wow that's she must be great
she quit after two weeks and it's
obviously me I'm the problem here but
the point being is that like hiring
General how how do we not have just an
easier way that I'm like doop I need
this person to come help us out with
stuff there's just a lot of interesting
opportunities out there to like okay
what's the opportunity a lot it's just
finding out who has money to some extent
and and what they're willing to pay for
or if they're willing to pay for it like
you know I I had trouble finding a video
editor for my YouTube channel right like
I had to post a thing and then I have to
sift through things and I have to do all
these calls and still kind of
interesting like I think there's now you
know YouTube video job boards but to be
able to have like a uber for video
editors or some systems that can make
this stuff a lot easier that I would
easily pay money for yeah I think AI is
definitely going to help there automate
some of that like if if you if we have
all the data around all these people
with their bios on LinkedIn and their
bios on Twitter and you know how long
they've been there and and the average
tenure at this company like how could
you use AI to reach out to people uh
systematically and then connect the
owner of the business of the or the
manager with this person so there's a
lot that could be automated there you
also got me thinking I never heard of
hire mymom.com which by the way is just
brilliant domain I didn't even need to
go to the website to know what they did
um D mom's Rock exactly mom's Rock 100%
And I think there's a huge opportunity
to take businesses that have product
Market fit and have an angle like like
for example uh you know support Shephard
already exists um for remote workers but
hire my mom is like a niche of of
support Shepard or there's another we
called go squared away.com have you
heard of that I think we've used we use
them apps is that the ones that are
veteran yes
military military yeah that's actually
been really good there's also there's
there's opportunity everywhere we use uh
howdy. comom have you seen them no
what's that so they give you they hire
South American developers and employees
but they do all the vetting and they
just make it stupid easy for you to have
full-time dedicated staff and an area so
we're on our absum Originals products
we're testing them out what what are you
here's the opposite question what are
you not doing in AI is there anything
you're just like you know I like doing
this manually the the old school way
yeah this is going to sound crazy but
writing I actually the only time I write
using chat DPT or AI is what I've been
doing with with I I have a lot of typos
when I write and you know College
Dropout whatever grew up in a French
speaking place so you know my my grammar
isn't awesome so what I do is I I
basically write my tweet or write my
blog post and then I put it into chat
gbt and I say do I have any spelling
mistakes and list it all out there
that's what I use it for but I don't use
it for writing at all cool yeah I don't
use it for writing at all do you have
other cool use cases I you know I'm
gonna be trans I am I'm not a big fan of
chat GPT I I feel like everyone's eating
it so hard and sometimes I think when
people go hard in one way I'm like how
do I go the other way right like I'm big
you know let's go pen and paper baby
like which by the way I just talked to
someone who read million dollar weekend
her name is McKenzie I got to give her a
shout out marry maker.com you know if
everyone's going One Direction so she's
a greeting card business $50,000 a first
year paper it's interesting to think
maybe what are some of the businesses
are things like that that are harder to
go away even with all the tech that's
coming like you still you know even with
AI you probably have to eat food at some
point I mean you're writing a book right
you decided to write a book when you
could have written like you have 10
chapters or whatever you couldn't WR you
could have written 10 blog posts like
you went the opposite way well I think
that's what I think about books where
you I wrote in you know in your pre-doc
which I thought was great in terms of
opportunities or Trends or niches I
don't know all some of the same to me
which is like there's everyone's going
into podcasting and youtubing and
twittering but to write a unique book
does take a long time right it it does
take a long time and there's not as many
of them out there so just something that
uh I did that thank God for years ago
which led me to where I'm at today with
this book but I think in general I don't
think everyone Andrew Chen said so many
years ago he's like you don't have to
innovate a lot you just have to do one
thing because I think we have to imagine
like I've got to innovate the the book
and then the marketing it's like most of
that stuff has been solved just find one
part of the 10 to innovate and I've
really embraced that over the years yeah
I think that's really smart I think uh I
mean I'm working on like six companies
right now so you might listen to this
and be like practice way you preach but
um focus and just like getting something
like focus on one thing get it to
product Market fit and until you get
that to product Market fit just like
don't think about anything else so
that's how I think about building
multiple companies is like I'm working
at one at a time
basically that reminds do you know
Portlandia you ever watch Portlandia
yeah yeah there's a great clip where
they go to the cell phone store I watch
it a lot and he's like so the phone's
free he's like yeah it's free after you
paid
$99 exactly so I think about that like
Focus like yeah of course I'm Focus just
like I do one and then I focus on the
next then I focus on the next exactly or
it's like it's tough it's tough this
life to it's like Zoolander when he goes
I can't turn what he say I can't turn
right or I can't turn left like that's
me oh man H what are these six
businesses you're doing we got boring
marketing.com which is an AI tool that
we built for ourselves to build uh SEO
optimize pages and content and that a
that business is going to throw off two
to three million dolls of free cash flow
this year which is crazy we just started
last year um I haven't publicly
announced it but whatever uh boring
ads.com we have been sort of applying
that same Playbook but through ads uh
we've got you probably need a robot.com
which is one of the biggest AI
communities on the internet uh which is
cool we've got LCA which is our
Innovation agency so we work with like
Dropbox and Shopify and fortnite on
future proofing their businesses got
that and we've got a bunch of other
businesses um dude hold how yeah wow
okay yeah well what's your question so
oh there's 65 people across all these
different things yes exactly wow nice
yeah nice and then the majority right
now the boring marketing.com is like the
the bread and butter
uh I wouldn't say it's it's it's it's
probably about 20 25% um and is it
equally distributed by the way why is it
bread and butter like wouldn't it be
like you know tacos and meat or like
steak and wine like we need to update
some of these phrases totally bread and
butter is you would think like when you
sit down at a restaurant you get bread
and butter it's the first thing right so
but it's not the best thing it's not the
best thing and it's not the main thing
either right the main thing is a steak
and potatoes well dude it's so funny you
know you guys are bootstrapped right
isn't this all bootstrap like your money
and stuff I was Googling yesterday like
what the hell is a bootstrap what is a
bootstrap it was like a longer
explanation than I can even share here
because I don't really know but let me
look it up but it's like we all say
bootstrapping but it was something like
not as obvious and I was like oh that's
interesting I learned it actually goes
back to like the 1800s oh really I'm
guessing it has to do like gold or
something uh bootstrap strapping is any
test or metric that uses oh no this is
in statistics um yeah bootstrapping is a
self-starting process that is supposed
to proceed without external input to
tall boots may have a tab handle at the
top known as a bootstrap allowing one to
use one's finger or a boot hook to help
put the boots on the saying to pull
oneself up by one's bootstrap was
already in user in the 19th century as
an example of an impossible task oh
that's interesting I like that I
actually like that I'll stick with
bootstrapper but bread and butter you're
out nice dude H so you have 65 people
across all these things yeah wow lot of
things how do you stay focus well how do
you focus not focus across this stuff so
we have GMS and CEOs for each of the
businesses so and how did you how did
you hire these people well that's what
keeps me up at night that's what keeps
me up at night um a lot of the folks are
like for example the CEO of boring
marketing is a friend you know and I
know people say like don't hire friends
and stuff like that well it's like you
trust your friends like there there's a
reason why you're your friends with with
your friends um and so I say hire
friends I say hiring your friends is a
great idea just through our my personal
network has been most of the hiring yeah
I love that I mean it's been definitely
at appsumo one of our biggest we've
hired a lot of these uh advisers so we
go and look at who did the thing at this
company that's ahead of us and then we
we pay that person a lot of money per
hour and then we hire a more Junior
person who cares probably a little bit
more about appsumo and then they it's
kind of a nice and nice merge versus
some of these like Elite people that we
think one they're not as good and two
they're they're too expensive that's
interesting that you do the advisory
thing I I went for lunch with someone
recently Who I Really respect and he was
suggesting to me he was like you should
pair your team with a bunch of advisers
and just pay them monthly he's like Nob
brainer so I'm curious we do it across
that's exactly what we do yeah so we
have I'll just break out the people and
it depends we now it's almost everyone
in leadership gets a person so uh Anna
who runs people we have Christine who's
the chief people officer from dualingo
Moody Glasgow was the CMO of zapier and
glass door he does marketing there's a
guy named Colin Gardner he does revenue
so he did outdoorsy or RV share one of
those um we have there's Raj t smooker g
he's more like an operations uh so he
he's kind of at a high level Alona who's
the COO she has someone who worked at
automatic as an adviser and now we're
thinking even with other people in the
company how do we help them get more
advisers because it seems like it's been
a for like a 500 bucks an hour or a
thousand bucks an hour and the way we
found most of them was we looked at the
for who worked those companies and I
just asked for a referral it's pretty
straightforward and almost all of them
came through referrals where it's like
hey you seem to know this person in
LinkedIn can you introduce me to them
and if they say no or they say I don't
know them you can also ask well who else
do you know that could be this role and
that's created a lot of these people and
do you highly recommend it do you go to
them like hey I'm willing to pay $500 an
hour or they do you ask them that's what
you say okay yeah well we we say we want
to pay you I think the best way to pay
people is ask them how much they want to
make yeah so I have a people I work with
and like I want to make a million
dollars I was like great let's get you
to be a millionaire yeah and there's
people it's nothing wrong or or I just
like giving people what they want so we
do offer like hey we want to pay you for
this and with the different advisers
they they do have different rates and
it's also a different amount of hours so
like we have the CFO from MailChimp uh
Jenny Bloom and so she has an hourly and
you know's got their own hourly but we
found it invaluable it's kind of a cheat
code because these people already know a
lot of the things uh like Moody
yesterday he asked us in the in the
marketing leaders meeting he said what
is what's AB suumo when you tell someone
out a bar or you're at dinner and
someone's like what's appsumo every
single person had a different
answer and it's like he's asking the
Strategic bigger picture bigger leverage
questions that were just so tactical I
would say so it's being with someone
who's like done it numerous times to be
able to really coach us yeah yeah and I
think the answer a lot of people have us
non bootstrappers have is it's like oh
I'll just raise money from well-known
people but I'd rather not investors I'd
rather people who are do you know who
are operators and and who are in the
game versus like writing checks for a
living yeah I talked to I was inter for
a million dollar week and I was
interviewing with the a show yesterday
and they're they're a software business
and and they it is great they're doing
their own content you know that worked
with me at mint.com it's worked with us
at appsumo it's what also teaching the
book and these guys are are saying yeah
we've got to do this because our
investors want to do it and I asked them
I was like well what do your customers
want to do and what do you want to do
they're like oh not that and so I I
think that was definitely where my
apprehension uh of taking funding on I
was like why don't you make your
customers your investors I think
definitely see maybe in terms of
Trends I wonder how that's going to
evolve well you have a good story around
how you lost a million dollar not
listening to customers can you can you
share a little bit about that yeah
there's I heard Chris Williamson talk
about this where there's a success
success bias where just because you do
something good you think you know
everything good right and you forget
also maybe how the beginnings are and
the beginnings are always the same right
find something people really want and
you deliver it to them and then you do
that again and again and again and again
and uh you know you hear you go on
Twitter and everyone's got this Playbook
they've shared and then you realize
they're selling you a
course it's like hey here's how bought a
real estate business here's how I did my
marketing oh by the way in the bio
there's a link for a life Mastery course
297 and um you know in the I guess to
say as an operator in the trenches you
know running a an e-commerce site at
appsumo I stopped listening to the
customer really well and listening to
the team and we we had we have about 600
products on appsumo software deals at
any time and a lot of them are like the
latest ones like as you said cast magic
and so we thought hey if you 10x it
because you see on Twitter that 10 Xing
is the way
uh that we tenx our business and so I
very quickly ran in the wrong direction
we went from and so we had to hire more
people on sales on operations on the
marketing and then we went from and then
the engineering team built all this
stuff for that so I'm only talking about
cash million that I lost not in terms of
the salary that's probably another
million and so we went from 600 to
13,000 products within six months on the
site and our Revenue stayed the same but
our profit went down right because now
uh we have different margins so some
products have better margins than others
so we went from normally like a 50%
margin give or take now we're down to
like a 30% margin and our customers were
livid I saw on Twitter and they email me
and that was interesting the team at
appsumo was mad because they're like we
don't want to do this and the partners
were mad because they're not getting as
much exposure and then I decided to also
spend a million dollars cash to promote
that we have all these new products on
appsumo and that was a great painful
expensive reminder around how do you
test things before you go invest in them
and I think we all everyone thinks their
ideas are unique and their approaches
are unique and the reality is probably
not probably not like I would say
opening eyes it's like kind of unique
but even that like we've had chat Bots
10 15 years like now it's like a little
better of a chat bot and it could do a
little bit more than Google search but
it's not like crazy and so how do you
test this stuff out so I could have
easily tested from 600 products to 650
and saw that the team was like this is
stupid the customer said it was stupid
and the partner said was stupid and so
the in all of our businesses we're going
to fail and frankly the more you fail
the more it leads you to somewhere that
actually works and we've had a lot of
that too but now it's going back to the
basics of how often are you talking to
your customers how often you listen to
your team how often are you talking to
your partners uh and then as we have
these crazy ideas that we know are
always right how do we test them before
we then double down and really invest in
them so we had this website that we put
up if you go to meat dispatch.com you
can you can check it out it was Meet
meet is that like a dating site no it's
like a dating site if you want to meet
designers for your team
get it's basically on demand designers
oh dispatch yeah exactly up to 60% off
and we put up a website really quickly
okay and it my opinion wasn't really
converting that much but that was just
based on my own gut and feel like I was
look I just saw some slack messages I
was like you you know when you you build
something and it's scales really quickly
you're just like like you know it's a
seven it just instantly scale to a seven
figure business and we never updated the
web web page and then I came in there
bowling the china shop go going to the
team being like we need to redo our
website like and I wrote this copy which
uh I'm reading it yeah and now we're
testing to see if it converts more but
my team went to me and they were kind of
like dude you got to like take it one
step at a time like what we should have
done you know it's so different and
there's there's and it was a lesson it
was a lesson for me to like it's cool to
bet boldly but you want to you want to
have a plan you can't just like press
the nuclear button when you have
something
working well yeah I mean I literally
wrote a book on it not the book but one
of the books I'm curious though so one
you're so much cooler than I realized
we've never really like gone deep or
deepish I love that you're doing all
this stuff I this is super cool most of
the people that have had I'd say the
most success to me have also tried the
most things right and then they find the
thing that works and they stick with it
for a long period of time
how do you decide when to start
something new and like maybe can you
share more of the things that you've
done that that no one knows about or
that you never that didn't get much
traction yeah well I think uh there's
one thing I did uh with with my team
that not many people know I did which
was when I was in my late teens and
early 20s I built the a network of the
largest financial communities on the
internet so we built a a business called
Wall Street Survivor and Wall Street
Survivor was the largest real-time stock
market on the internet and it was right
after 2008 When people's net net worth
went down 50% because of the crash and
we were kind of like wouldn't it be cool
to like have play money and turn buying
in the stock market into a game and then
we did that for ourselves and then we
powered you know all the big brokerages
like Scott trade and TD and every
newspaper who ran a challenge a stock
market challenge and then we said hey
wouldn't schools want to use something
like this and then all of a sudden 80
plus% of the top us Business Schools
would pay us to power their Finance
curriculum so that's something I did
that not many people know about H is
this still yours this Wall Streets
survivor.com or did you sell it we sold
it to a private Equity Group can you
share how much well actually the company
we took it public in Canada then we
privatized it because it was getting
promoted by uh uh stock market like
manipulators penny stock Traders because
it was essentially a penny stock we had
to private we spent $2 million to make
it go public then we spent $2 million to
privatize it and so that was crazy I
know I've never talked about that
publicly and uh and then we also and
then we sold it to a private group and
do you know how it's doing it all and
and roughly how much you sell it for uh
I would say I mean it's probably doing
you know it's eight it's probably an
figure you know it's an a fig profitable
business the team is probably 50 or 60
people now I'm not going to disclose how
much I sold it for but you know it was
wow it wasn't uh it wasn't a home run
but it was certainly a single I depends
where I sounds like a double or triple
to me I mean I think what's crazy and
I've seen it with this book and with my
YouTube channel is just how many
different ways you can get
rich right even on the web right like
you me non-web totally you know it could
be books it could be local businesses
but even within the web there's just so
many categories yeah even in cont
creation right I think you you've
probably seen Kevin asiru the Epic
gardening guy he's been a long time
buddy and I really do think it's it's
finding something that people want but
also really I think what doesn't get
talked about is sticking with it yeah
like it I'm sure you've tried things
that like boring marketer did that hit
right away or is it like you had to try
a long time for it to hit so when we
like our version of an MVP is an
audience or community so when we started
uh boring marketing we created a a
Twitter account called boring marketer
at boring marketer and we would you know
our whole thesis was you know if Cody
Sanchez is the queen of boring
businesses who's going to be the king of
boring marketing you know that was the
thesis and so we started just tweeting
about it costus zero to create a Twitter
account so we just basically started
tweeting about this concept of boring
marketing what are boring ways to grow
your business and then we started
tweeting about SEO and then we started
tweeting about AI SEO how to do it and
then people really all of a sudden we
had 5 10 15,000 followers and then we
were iterating on this tool this to to
go and Implement while we were
validating so we always start with the
audience or the community have you ever
built like from like day one with the
customer or like sold to a customer at
all or done validation without because I
think people what what I always hesitant
on is like building up an audience and
then they don't actually want to ever
buy anything or spend money on something
yeah yeah so that's that is a fear of
mine which is like is this audience the
same people who are going to be uh
customers so I have this I have this
funnel that I talk about which is like
it's called the ACP funnel audience
Community product so I usually start
with an audience Twitter Instagram Tik
Tok build up like it also allows you to
be clearer about what it is like how to
position it what it is I'm building and
then I usually convert a small amount of
those people into uh a free community
and those people that I convert are
generally people who I think are going
to be customers so those people I'll
either put in like a WhatsApp group an
iMessage group a a free school or
something Circle whatever and those
people I'm iterating with in real time
and what has been your approach about
what you sell to them um my Approach I
think it's I it's it's my Approach is
honesty and transparency which is like
like I'm one of you and I'm interested
in let's say boring marketing and I'm
going to sh my learnings and add value
and hopefully you're interested in this
too and turns out if they're interested
in it they're also assuming that they in
this example like these people have
purchasing power assuming they have
purchasing power and they're your ideal
customer profile then that this this
funnel works pretty well I guess I I've
lik to approach similarly but ideally
I'm the first customer or at least
problems that I'm interested in and then
I like making sure there's validation
with other people before I want to build
up an audience of something I'm not sure
of but I like the idea of getting
validation early whether it's on a
Marketplace whether it's through your
pre-selling or whether it's through
landing pages and then building the that
product out for that those people and
the audience at the same time different
approaches to get to probably similar
destinations I think the other thing
that you highlighted which I got to call
out and this is something I've noticed
especially with the book how do you get
your customers more engaged with the the
business right there's normally like a
separation I think has happened and it's
the same thing with if you think of
celebrities remember celebrities where
we literally could see on TV and People
magazine and now every celebrity has a
podcast right and then they have like
social media where you can DM them and
leave a comment and maybe they'll reply
back and you post that reply back as a
comment for yourself as social media and
so what's it's a great reminder for me
and I've done it with appsumo done
million dollar weekend done it with you
know things I've done over the past
decade it's like have people a part of
the process and I love that you're
saying yeah just be honest like we tried
uh for the book I did a referral program
like hey if you I had a launch Team for
the book I was like all right bring one
person so there's a 1300 person launch
Team I said if you could bring one
person I'm going to do a pro a dedicated
uh office hours I'll answer anything you
have in business or whatever you want to
talk about just for you and your friend
six people did
it right so it was awesome though I was
like great that's something people
didn't want and you could and then I
share that back like hey seems like
y'all didn't want it tell me more yeah I
guess just like I don't have any really
friends like I'm kind of in an area by
myself so I didn't have someone I could
even think of referring that's why I'm a
part of a group oh okay or uh every week
I share updates of what's been going on
from our marketing and I shared here's
all the shows I'm coming on this week
obviously Greg Eisenberg and come and
hang out with him and then I shared as
well you guys I don't know if you know
this but here's all the shows I'm
rejected
from here's all the Diary of a
CEO uh how I built this rejected me they
didn't respond this woman Kathy heler
has rejected me three times which I'm
like okay twice I get three times I just
being mean uh but they love it they love
it even you know my whole Facebook I got
fired I'm still talking about that 20
years ago cuz the the takeaway for
anyone out there whether you're a
content creator or a business Creator in
all these aspects just include the the
community and the audience in the
process yes and I know I still text the
first customers not every day so I think
that's creepy but you know as as part of
the thing and even with this book like
the customers I'm talking to them hey
here's what I'm writing on what do you
guys think about it and working with
them in the process yeah I think they
they want to hear your wins and equally
they want to hear about your losses I
Remember by the way you know what's even
more hurts even more about not getting
onto a podcast is getting invited on a
podcast recording the podcast and them
not releasing it so that happened to me
with uh Harry steings 20 was 20 minute
VC he invited me to the podcast I go on
the podcast I'm so excited by the way
this is in
2018 okay I needed this podcast
because I was funding my business like
myself we had run out of money 2018 I
don't know if you remember there was
like a bit of a flash crash in Tex dos I
was running a social app and social at
the time everyone was like well
Facebook's gonna copy you Facebook's
gonna copy you no one wants to do social
apps I get invited I open my inbox I see
Harry steings invites me onto his show
I'm like this is the number one VC show
in the world thank God I've I've made it
I go on the show I'm like I do it 30
minutes I think I nail it I'm like
celebrating with friends afterwards I'm
like so excited for the episode doesn't
ever air and then I I you know after a
month I sent him a message I was like
what what happened and he's like oh we
we're not releasing the episode um and I
think that the ouches people like that
earns trust with your community with
your audience with your 100% right one
of the things I mean what's been
interesting with this book and seeing
people
read it is that the more that you can
get okay that there's going to be
rejection as part of this process and
frankly it's a learning opportunity it's
like okay this person didn't want it why
not this person wanted it great and the
more that you can get a little bit
uncomfortable with that get comfortable
being a little bit uncomfortable you
just keep going and think about how many
other people have said yes but what most
people do is they get rejected by Harry
or one person and they're like well I
guess this is not it right and uh if you
can figure out not even figure out if
there's fun ways to do it like the
coffee challenge is something I've
always talked about where you go ask for
Discount get rejected you move before
and you're like this is not so bad yeah
and I think sharing that has been good
the other thing I would say that that
you highlighted um besides starting a
lot of things right like you've started
so many things right so you actually
have a skill now that you get going
you're not waiting to be ready for it
and though you stick with it a long time
like how long did it take for boring
marketer to make a million like a year
two years three years uh just under a
year yeah wow that's fast that one's
fast we had product Market fit right
away but you know how many examples like
I could share of things that we we we
invested a million dollars plus and
we're going after it and going after it
and so much time you know it's tough to
it's tough to it's tough to kill a
project right uh it's really tough so uh
especially when you feel like you're so
close I dude I've done that I feel like
that's such a thing where you don't have
product Market fit you just add more
features until it fits it's tough though
it could work that way right there's the
we use these exceptions as the norm like
oh well slack did it twice right yeah
but that's just literally two of the
examples where I always I always think
of it as like putting stickers on a
Honda like it's still slow like just
make a faster car if you want a fast car
yeah and I've noticed with all of my
successes they have started fast like
that's you know weekend if not sooner
and then the ones where I'm like okay I
need more research I need to build more
I need to talk to more people just this
is a unique one like we try to build a
clavo competitor called meat fam spent
like I don't know six to 12 months
building it I couldn't beg a friend to
change
over I was like please but this is an
automatic clavo you don't have to do
anything they're like yeah I just kind
of have it set up and I have this guy
that that runs mavio and uh you know
with appsumo was like all right I got a
deal on imra Threw It on Reddit and
people bought it right away 12 bucks at
a time it's like that's it you know it
sounds the same thing with boarding
marketer and some of these other
approaches that there there are other
ways of doing it where you can find out
faster of what people are actually
excited about yeah I agree I think
people stick to the examples of like you
know they're on their last dollar and
they figure it out my friend Nikita beer
was like this he I don't know if you
know that story but he basically he hit
me up like summer I don't know 2017 or
something and he was he had been
iterating on social ass for like seven
years and like it it wasn't working out
so he was like yeah I want to close my
comp you know I'm going to close my
company do you know anything about
getting out an of an office lease and I
was like oh whatever happened to that
like high school Anonymous teen ping
polling app and he was like oh I haven't
launch it I'm goingon to launch it in a
few weeks I think maybe he wasn't even
it was his on his last straw he didn't
even know if he was going to launch it
and that became like his claim to fame
right TBH gas which is essentially the
same app and the qu you know so if he if
he would have quit that summer he
wouldn't be a beer but I look at that
and I'm like I don't want to be that I
don't want to put myself through that
stress personally he would still be
Nikita either way I I just think that
that's glorifying the wrong Behavior
yeah right there's this whole 10x thing
and burn the boats thing and I think you
can do it that way but you can also do
it an easier way yes for like I've I've
started all my businesses while I had a
day job and I more what I've realized is
that there's a lot of smart people in
day jobs that don't want to be there but
they think they have to be like Nikita
and like okay kids we're going to have
Cheerios every day or whatever it is
that you eat and you have to have this
crazy risk we it's like no start a bunch
of things like did you have a day job
like how did you get going or did you
start making businesses right away uh
I've just been building businesses right
away I mean I started off like I was my
dad had a store and I was a cashier at
the store and well actually I started
off breaking boxes uh literally and that
was tough work to be to be doing that
and then graduated eventually to be like
assistant cashier and then cashier and I
I learned that I I really didn't want to
be in retail and on the side of that I
was like building websites and and love
this internet thing and I was just like
wow it's so much more fun to be building
digital stuff than Breaking boxes or you
know bagging
product I I would say for a lot of
people out there it sounds like we've
had similar uh you know earlier careers
but yeah you you can have a day job and
maybe you like it or don't but at least
have that option where you start your
own business and for me I I kept getting
fired and I was like well [ __ ] man I got
to take control of my own destiny
instead of letting one person choose my
livelihood and so one of my on my third
job was like well I'm gonna start
building these side hustles and find a
system that can eventually work so then
I can quit that side hustle when I make
enough money and uh but I would say the
underlying thing I was calling out again
sometimes it just takes a long time it
takes compounded time to really get the
results of these businesses once they
start working you know for appsumo was
like we did similar to you it worked
right away it was like first year
300,000 second year 3 million but then
it was flat you know for a few years
like 4 million 4 million 5 million four
then uh it started picking up again the
market got better we stuck with it uh we
doubled down aiming the old CEO doubled
down on things that worked and then you
know last year $80 million it's crazy
but which is it's beyond you know it's
bootstrap business it's unbelievable and
you know we've made a lot of
millionaires and a lot of people have
products like cast magic have gone on to
do amazing things and that's what we're
here for but part of that is we got
started and we stuck with it and I think
people stick with it like Nikita which
is like you're sticking with something
not working or maybe he saw some data
that was but why not just find something
that does work and then stick with just
that for a long period of time that's
what I've seen especially on the YouTube
channel too these billionaires they all
took 20 years I was looking at all of
the ones I've interviewed and the ones
I've worked for it's about 20 years give
ever take on average for them to make a
bill and it's like people aren't a
billionaire and like a month from crypto
they give up or they I bought a lot of
shitty nfts I kept getting scammed but
and it was like a hobby but it was like
I think so many people were like I'm not
rich off nfts this month like give up
but there are a few people who are like
hey I really am excited about nfts I'm
going to stick with it like I invested
in moonpay this guy Ivan out of Miami
yeah and they're sticking with it and I
could see them ideally you know in a few
years it produces a great results but
some of these things it just doesn't uh
do all of the results at once and so why
don't you compound year-over-year with
slow you know slow consistent growth
that's definitely been my Approach with
appsumo coming back in the past few
years and uh I feel like we can sustain
longer like a boring marketer it's like
one million and then two million and
three million it's like keep because I
do believe in that phrase like easy come
easy go yeah and if it's like if you
build it really slow and they come
really slow then they're going to stay
really
slow but again you have to make sure
it's something that people want not uh
like nikito or you know I guess risk it
all and at the end God does his work
yeah yeah I think uh I also think like
it's easier now to build and test and so
I think like I would recommend for most
people that they put themselves through
the stress of hey let me go dedicate 5
10 years of my life to go and take this
moonshot swing unless like you're
passionate about a particular space um
that and you want a billion dollar plus
outcome like for us like we're we're
happy not having Billion Dollar Plus
outcomes totally happy we're not looking