Roswell conspiracy source revealed | Annie Jacobsen and Lex Fridman
Summary
TLDRThe transcript discusses a controversial theory from a book on Area 51, suggesting that the Roswell incident might have been a disinformation campaign orchestrated by Stalin, involving a remotely piloted plane with a surgically altered 'alien'. The author defends the credibility of this theory based on the confession of a highly-placed,ζ³ͺful source with top secret clearances, who was involved in similar American programs and wanted the truth on record to prevent future abuses of power.
Takeaways
- π¬ The script discusses a controversial explanation for the Roswell incident, suggesting it was a disinformation campaign by Stalin involving a remotely piloted plane with a grotesquely altered child aviator.
- π The source of this explanation remained undisclosed for years, with the speaker having worked closely with this source, understanding the depth and personal nature of the information shared.
- π₯ The idea is that Stalin's disinformation campaign aimed to cause mass hysteria in the United States, similar to the panic induced by the War of the Worlds broadcast, leveraging the U.S. government's interest in such psychological tactics.
- π‘οΈ The Roswell crash remains were part of a black propaganda hoax by Stalin to overwhelm America's early warning air defense systems, potentially paving the way for a Soviet attack.
- π¨βπ» The source, later revealed as Al O'Donnell, a nuclear weapons engineer, provided a tearful confession about his involvement in an American program aiming to replicate the Soviet hoax, which led to human experiments and deaths.
- π In the last pages of the book 'Area 51,' the explosive revelation about these human experiments and the ethical implications are discussed, sourced from the confession of O'Donnell.
- π O'Donnell's revelation was kept secret from his family for 60 years, only disclosed after the publication of the book, leading to a significant emotional moment with his family confirming the truth of his involvement.
- π₯ Criticism of the story and skepticism towards its validity contrasts with the credibility and high security clearance of the source, emphasizing the complexity and darkness of intelligence operations during the Cold War.
- π‘ The discussion reflects on the moral and ethical conflicts inherent in national security efforts, highlighting the lengths to which governments have gone in the name of security.
- π¨ The narrative underscores the importance of transparency and the impact of power when unchecked, advocating for accountability in secretive governmental actions.
Q & A
What is the main theory proposed in the book about Area 51?
-The main theory proposed in the book is that the Roswell incident might have been a disinformation campaign created by Stalin, involving a remotely piloted plane with a grotesque child-sized aviator.
How does the source of this theory add credibility to the story?
-The source is highly credible because he was the main expert advisor behind the story and had top secret clearances higher than almost anyone in the United States. He was also responsible for arming nuclear bombs, earning him the title 'the trigger man'.
What was Stalin's alleged purpose for creating this disinformation campaign?
-Stalin's alleged purpose was to cause mass hysteria in the United States, to overwhelm America's early warning air defense system, and potentially pave the way for an attack on the country.
How did the source reveal the truth about the Roswell incident?
-The source revealed the truth in a tearful confession, stating that he was involved in an American program that aimed to do the same thing as the alleged Soviet campaign, which involved human experiments that led to deaths.
Why did the source choose to share this information?
-The source chose to share this information because he was dedicated to his country and believed that such unethical practices must never happen again. He wanted it on record to prevent the abuse of power.
What was the reaction of the source's family upon learning about his revelations?
-The source's family, including his wife of 60 years, did not know about his involvement until after the book was published. They asked him to confirm the truth of the story after the author visited them.
How does the author defend the credibility of the source despite criticism?
-The author defends the credibility of the source by highlighting his high-level clearances, his role in arming nuclear weapons, and the fact that he was willing to reveal his identity and the dark details of the program.
What is the significance of the 'War of the Worlds' radio program in this context?
-The 'War of the Worlds' radio program is significant because it created mass hysteria when people believed they were being invaded by aliens. This is analogous to the intended effect of Stalin's disinformation campaign.
The book discusses the ethical and moral dilemmas of conducting human experiments and the abuse of power in the name of national security by both Soviet and American programs.
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Why did the author feel it was appropriate to reveal this information now?
-The author felt it was appropriate to reveal this information now because of the long-form conversation and the judicious decision to close the loop on reporting, emphasizing the importance of transparency regarding past unethical actions.
What is the author's stance on the power dynamics within intelligence agencies?
-The author believes that when individuals within intelligence agencies are given too much power, they may take advantage of it, leading to unethical practices and actions.
Outlines
π Debating the Roswell Incident and Stalin's Disinformation Theory
The speaker discusses the controversial theory proposed in a book about Area 51, suggesting that the Roswell incident might have been a disinformation campaign orchestrated by Stalin. The theory posits that the Roswell crash was a remotely piloted plane with surgically altered 'aliens' to cause mass hysteria in the United States, akin to the War of the Worlds radio broadcast. The speaker emphasizes the credibility of the source, who was a key expert advisor and had top secret clearances due to his role in arming nuclear weapons. The source revealed this information tearfully, expressing regret for the unethical human experiments that led to deaths as part of the American program. The speaker felt confident in sharing this information after the source's confession and the publication of the book, despite the source's family being unaware of these revelations until after the book's release.
π€ Credibility of Sources and the Ethical Dilemma of Intelligence Programs
The speaker reflects on the credibility of the source who provided information about the Roswell incident and the potential disinformation campaign. Despite the source's high-level clearances and significant responsibilities in nuclear armament, the speaker acknowledges the criticism received for the story. The conversation highlights the ethical and moral dilemmas present in intelligence programs on both Soviet and American sides, where security measures have led to heinous acts. The speaker sees it as appropriate to discuss these dark details now, especially after a long and judicious reporting process, to ensure that such unethical practices are recognized and not repeated.
Mindmap
Keywords
π‘Area 51
π‘Roswell incident
π‘Disinformation
π‘Stalin
π‘The War of the Worlds
π‘Black propaganda
π‘National Security
π‘Human Experiments
π‘Confidentiality
π‘Ethical and Moral Conflicts
π‘Sources and Credibility
Highlights
The book on Area 51 suggests a disinformation campaign from Stalin regarding the Roswell incident.
The Roswell incident is proposed to have been a remotely piloted plane with a grotesque child-sized aviator.
The source behind this theory was a main expert advisor whose family was known to the author.
The theory suggests that the Roswell crash was a black propaganda hoax by Stalin to cause mass hysteria in the United States.
The idea was based on the narrative of 'The War of the Worlds' radio program causing panic.
Stalin's interest in 'The War of the Worlds' story is confirmed by declassified documents.
The source revealed that the United States government investigated the crashed craft and its human-like occupants.
The U.S. considered implementing a similar program after the Roswell incident.
The source was involved in a U.S. program that led to human experiments and deaths.
The source made a tearful confession about the program, wanting it on record to prevent future abuses of power.
The source's identity was revealed to be Al O'Donnell, a nuclear weapons engineer.
The author was called to the source's house after the book's publication to confirm the story's truth.
The source's family was previously unaware of his involvement in the program.
The author believes that the story is appropriate to share now due to the long-term reporting and context.
The source's revelations highlight the ethical and moral conflicts of programs on both Soviet and American sides.
The source's dedication to national security and commitment to preventing future unethical actions drove the confession.
The author felt confident in writing about the story due to the source's credibility and high-level clearances.
The story has received criticism, but the source's credibility and the plausibility of such actions by intelligence agencies lend weight to the narrative.
Transcripts
in your book on Area 51 you propose an
explanation that I think some people
have criticized at the very
end uh that this might have been a
disinformation campaign from I guess
Stalin that the Roswell incident was a
remotely piloted plane with a quote
grotesque child siiz Aviator just
looking back at all that now years later
um um what's the probability that it's
true what's the probability it's
not so you know I've never I've never
revealed to that sources yes did you
know that I want me to tell you what the
source yeah okay who's the
source so before I say anything on that
let me let me let me speak to the the
question that you asked right
so you asked me what's the probability
that that is still standing as an idea
MH 14 12 13 14 years later right so I
continued to work with that source for
years afterwards we talked about this
look I mean his whole
family knew it was him and I knew his
family because I was an integral part of
you know I was at his house met all his
kids
grandkids and and we should say the
source is the main expert advisor behind
the story that it was maybe you can
explain what the story is that you're
report in the book that it was uh
disinformation campaign created by
Stalin to cause Mass hysteria in the
United States the very kind that we've
been speaking about with the CIA and so
on yes predicated on the on The
Narrative of the War of the Worlds right
and the War of the Worlds when it was a
radio program in the United States made
people go crazy oh my God we're being
invaded by aliens well the government
was always interested in this story and
Joseph Stalin once too we know that from
Declassified documents right and so the
source told me that the the the reason
for this program and that the real
Roswell crash remains where in fact it
was a a black propaganda hoax
infiltrated you know or rather
predicated at this idea that you were
going to overwhelm America's early
warning air defense system cause Mayhem
and maybe be able to attack the United
States that was the plan and Stalin was
also messing with the United States
messing with Truman who sort of you know
turned his back on him right at Potsdam
and so um this idea was and the reason
that the source was important and unlike
you know a lot of people I saw I I saw
this I saw that I learned that was
according to the
source once it was once it was
determined that this was a hoax and that
Stalin was able to get a craft over the
United States and it crashed and it had
you know people inside of it they were
people that
were sort of deformed and meant
surgically altered to look like
aliens the United States government
decided that it needed to know what on
Earth that was all about and if it was
possible for us to have the same program
this according to the source right and
so it sounds Preposterous and if it was
just someone saying I you might say well
it's ridiculous tell me and get them
onto another subject but the difference
was is this Source who is very
well-placed and friends with all of the
other seven 5 people you know told me
this as a confession right a real
tearful confession because what he said
is he was involved in the American
program to do the same thing and people
died because there were human
experiments that went on and I I write
about this in the last 12 pages of Area
51 it was explosive you know Revelation
and I felt very confident in writing
this because the source wanted it
written why because he said I'm
dedicated to my country I know about
being committed to National Security and
this kind of thing must never happen and
if you give people too much power they
will take advantage of it and he wanted
it on the record and his wife of 60
years did not know until after the book
published nor did his children okay so
after the book published I was called to
his house and sat there with his family
and they said tell us this isn't true
and he said it is true
right now that sword course is Al
odonnell who is the nuclear weapons
engineer who armed wired and
fired
186 nuclear
weapons okay so if you want to talk
about some you're the first person I've
told that on on the record but it's kind
of about
time
wow well I uh you received a lot of
criticism over this story and it
confused me why because
it's given the context of everything
you've described with the CIA and other
intelligence
agencies it is reasonable that such a
action would be
taken and the source is extraordinarily
credible right if you all if you wanted
to take the position well that person
isn't very reliable then you have to ask
yourself why did they have top secret
clearances that are higher than any in
the the United States whatsoever because
he was responsible for arming nuclear
bombs he was called the trigger man and
by the way he told me that I could tell
the world who he was there's a lot of
details that are really dark uh
involving that program and when is it
appropriate right well it feels
appropriate now first of all because you
and I have been talking for several
hours so this is what is a truly a long
form conversation and it's the outcome
of you know a very long time of my
reporting and also being judicious
about what you know closing the loop on
that right because I do think it's
important for people to know that
sources
um have
Revelations and like you said the
programs both on the Soviet side and the
American side uh conflicting I think is
the the term we used previously
um ethically morally on all fronts
are um people have done some horrible
things in the name of
security
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