Linus Torvalds: Speaks on the Rust vs C Linux Divide

SavvyNik
18 Sept 202408:54

Summary

TLDRIn this discussion, Linus Torvalds shares his views on the integration of Rust into the Linux kernel, a topic that has sparked debate among maintainers and contributors. Despite challenges and one maintainer's resignation due to 'non-technical nonsense,' Torvalds finds the Rust conversation invigorating. He acknowledges the resistance from some long-term maintainers to Rust's architectural requirements, contrasting with C's simplicity. Torvalds sees the specialization in the kernel community as a strength and remains optimistic about Rust's potential, even if it faces integration hurdles. He also touches on the possibility of alternative Rust-based kernels, reflecting on Linux's ubiquity and the enduring need for efficient system languages.

Takeaways

  • 🔧 Rust's integration into the Linux kernel has been a contentious topic, with passionate debates between long-term maintainers and new contributors.
  • 👨‍💻 One maintainer resigned from the Rust for Linux project, citing 'non-technical nonsense' and a lack of energy to deal with ongoing issues.
  • 🗣️ Linus Torvalds, the creator of Linux, enjoys the lively discussions that Rust has sparked, despite some arguments becoming personal.
  • 🤔 Torvalds is unsure why Rust has become such a contentious issue, likening it to past debates over text editors, suggesting it may be a sign of strong investment in the technology.
  • 🛠️ Writing memory-safe Rust code requires certain architectural changes that some older maintainers resist, preferring the simplicity and established practices of C.
  • 👍 Torvalds sees the specialization within the Linux kernel community as a strength, with different contributors focusing on their areas of expertise, including Rust.
  • 🚀 Despite the challenges, Torvalds views the Rust integration positively and is not deterred by the idea of it being a failure, as failures are part of the learning process.
  • 💡 The resistance to Rust is partly due to the need for infrastructure changes that some maintainers are unwilling to make, as they have been using C for decades.
  • 🌐 Torvalds acknowledges that while Linux is widespread, there will always be a demand for smaller, simpler systems, which could be an opportunity for Rust.
  • 🔮 The possibility of a new operating system being developed in Rust or another language is an exciting prospect for the future, reflecting the evolution of technology.

Q & A

  • 为什么Rust在Linux内核中的集成成为了一个有争议的话题?

    -Rust在Linux内核中的集成引发了争议,主要是因为它挑战了内核开发者对C语言的长期依赖。一些开发者担心Rust的集成可能会引入复杂性,并且需要对现有的基础设施进行改变以适应Rust的内存安全特性。此外,一些维护者对学习新语言或改变现有的工作流程持抵触态度。这种争议在某些情况下甚至带有宗教色彩,因为C语言在内核开发中有着深厚的历史和文化根基。

  • Linux内核维护者为什么对Rust的集成有抵触情绪?

    -一些Linux内核维护者对Rust的集成有抵触情绪,主要是因为他们对C语言有着深厚的经验和依赖,并且担心Rust的集成会要求他们学习新的语言和编程范式。此外,Rust的某些内存安全特性需要在内核层面进行架构上的改变,这可能会引入额外的复杂性和工作量。一些维护者可能不愿意接受这些改变,因为他们认为现有的C语言基础设施已经足够稳定和成熟。

  • 为什么有的Linux内核维护者选择辞职,不再参与Rust for Linux项目?

    -根据搜索结果,至少有一位Linux内核维护者因为对所谓的'非技术性废话'感到沮丧而选择辞职。这位维护者表示,尽管他对Rust在Linux内核中的未来持乐观态度,但他发现自己缺乏继续应对这些非技术性争议的精力和热情。这表明,除了技术挑战之外,Rust在Linux内核中的集成还面临着社区内部的沟通和协作挑战。

  • Linus Torvalds对Rust在Linux内核中的未来持什么态度?

    -Linus Torvalds对Rust在Linux内核中的未来持开放和乐观的态度。他认识到Rust的集成引发了激烈的讨论,甚至一些争议,但他也看到了Rust带来的积极变化,比如提高了代码的安全性和活跃了社区讨论。Torvalds认为,尽管Rust的集成可能会遇到挑战,但这是学习和进步的过程,即使最终证明Rust在Linux内核中的集成是一个失败,也能从中获得宝贵的经验。

  • Rust在Linux内核中的集成目前处于什么状态?

    -截至目前,Rust在Linux内核中的集成仍处于实验阶段。虽然已经有一些基础的示例驱动程序和基础设施支持,但Rust代码在内核中的使用还不是主流。Linux内核的开发团队正在积极评估Rust作为第二语言的可行性,并探索如何将Rust代码与现有的C语言代码库集成。这个过程可能会持续几年,直到Rust在内核开发中的地位变得更加明确。

  • Rust for Linux项目的目标是什么?

    -Rust for Linux项目的目标是将Rust语言的支持添加到Linux内核中。这个项目旨在利用Rust的内存安全特性来提高内核代码的安全性,同时保持与现有C语言代码的兼容性。项目的成功将意味着内核开发者可以选择使用Rust来编写新的驱动程序、子系统或进行现有代码的重构,从而减少内存相关的错误和安全漏洞。

  • 为什么Rust在Linux内核中的集成被认为对提高安全性有帮助?

    -Rust语言的设计强调内存安全,它的所有权系统和借用检查器能够在编译时防止许多常见的内存错误,如空指针解引用、缓冲区溢出和数据竞争。这些错误是导致软件安全漏洞的主要原因。因此,将Rust集成到Linux内核中被认为可以减少这类错误,从而提高内核的安全性。

  • Linux内核社区对于Rust的集成有哪些担忧?

    -Linux内核社区对于Rust的集成有一些担忧,包括对现有C语言代码库的兼容性问题、对新语言的学习曲线、以及对Rust内存安全特性可能引入的额外复杂性。一些维护者担心,为了适应Rust的内存安全要求,可能需要对内核的基础设施进行重大改变,这可能会增加维护负担。此外,一些开发者对于改变他们熟悉的开发环境和工具链持保守态度。

  • Rust在Linux内核中的集成是否遇到了技术障碍?

    -是的,Rust在Linux内核中的集成遇到了一些技术障碍。例如,Rust的一些语言特性需要内核提供特定的基础设施支持,这可能需要对现有的C语言代码进行重构。此外,Rust的某些不稳定特性(如内联汇编中的标签跳转)需要在编译器层面得到稳定支持,这需要Rust语言开发团队和Linux内核开发者之间的密切合作。解决这些技术障碍需要时间和持续的努力。

  • Linux内核社区对于Rust的集成有哪些积极的期待?

    -Linux内核社区对于Rust的集成抱有积极的期待,主要是因为Rust的内存安全特性有望减少内核开发中的内存错误和安全漏洞。此外,Rust的现代语言特性和工具链支持可能会吸引更多的开发者参与内核开发,为社区带来新的活力。一些开发者认为,随着时间的推移,Rust可能会成为内核开发的重要部分,尤其是在驱动程序和系统级编程领域。

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