How to Learn Any Language - Interview with Legendary Polyglot Steve Kaufmann

Summary

In this insightful conversation, Luca Alemanprello interviews Steve Kaufman, a renowned polyglot and language learning expert. Kaufman shares his journey from being a Canadian diplomat to becoming deeply involved in language learning, leading to the creation of the language learning platform, LingQ. He emphasizes the importance of attitude, time spent with the language, and the ability to notice as key factors in language acquisition. Kaufman also discusses the benefits of learning multiple languages, including enhanced cultural understanding and professional opportunities, and encourages participation in the supportive polyglot community.

Takeaways

• 🌍 Language learning opens doors to understanding different cultures and histories.
• 📚 Steve Kaufman's language learning journey began with a passion for French, sparked by an inspiring professor at McGill University.
• 💡 A positive attitude, time spent with the language, and the ability to notice linguistic patterns are key to successful language acquisition.
• 🎯 Kaufman emphasizes the importance of enjoying the learning process and not getting hung up on details or making mistakes.
• 🌟 Learning languages has significantly benefited Kaufman's professional career, especially in connecting with international clients and suppliers.
• 🔄 The polyglot community is supportive and mutually beneficial, encouraging language enthusiasts to learn and grow together.
• 🎧 Kaufman uses technology, like Google Translate, for basic communication but highlights the irreplaceable value of human conversation.
• 📖 Reading books and listening to podcasts in the target language are crucial components of Kaufman's language learning routine.
• 🤔 Kaufman dropped Turkish to focus on Arabic and Persian, showing the flexibility and personal choice in language learning paths.
• 🌐 Even with advancements in translation technology, learning languages remains important for deeper cultural understanding and personal satisfaction.
• 👨‍👩‍👧‍👦 Kaufman's interests extend beyond language learning to include sports, history, and spending time with family.

Q & A

What does Steve Kaufman stand for in the language learning world?

Steve Kaufman is known for his passion for languages and his career as a Canadian diplomat and businessman in the forest industry. He has learned multiple languages both professionally and out of personal interest, and has developed a language learning platform called LingQ (previously known as Link) with his son, Mark.

How did Steve Kaufman's interest in language learning begin?

Steve's interest in language learning began in Montreal where he was exposed to both English and French speakers. His passion was ignited by a McGill University professor who taught French civilization, leading Steve to study in France and become fluent in French.

How did the idea of LingQ (Link) originate?

The idea of LingQ originated from Steve's personal frustration with traditional language learning methods. He found it inefficient to underline unknown words in books, look them up in dictionaries, and still forget them. With a background in software development from his work in the forest industry, he developed a system to better facilitate language learning by combining audio and text.

What is Steve Kaufman's approach to maintaining multiple languages?

Steve does not deliberately maintain his languages on a daily basis. Instead, he accepts the uncertainty of language proficiency fluctuation and focuses on exploring new languages. He revisits languages as needed and finds that relearning forgotten languages is more effective than trying to maintain them at a high level constantly.

How does Steve Kaufman define fluency in a language?

For Steve, fluency means understanding fundamentally everything that is said to him, even if he speaks with mistakes. He uses the European Framework levels, where A2 allows one to claim speaking a language, B2 indicates fluency with some mistakes, and C1 suggests a very high level of fluency.

What are the three key factors for successful language learning according to Steve Kaufman?

The three key factors are the attitude of the learner, the time spent with the language, and the ability to notice. A positive attitude, dedication of time, and the willingness to observe and understand language patterns are crucial for success.

How does Steve Kaufman incorporate listening and reading in his language learning routine?

Steve listens to language content daily, using times when his hands are busy, like making breakfast or driving. This listening triggers curiosity, which leads him to read the content. He reads and listens to sentences repeatedly, trying to hammer them into his brain.

What does Steve Kaufman think about the necessity of writing in language learning?

Steve acknowledges that writing is beneficial for language learning but personally does not write in the languages he is learning, focusing instead on listening and reading. He believes in doing what is easy and enjoyable for the learner.

What are some common limiting beliefs that hinder language learning, according to Steve Kaufman?

Steve mentions that people often resist accepting new languages, get hung up on details, and are overly focused on speaking perfectly. These beliefs can create obstacles and prevent learners from enjoying the language learning process.

How does Steve Kaufman respond to the argument that technology is making language learning less important?

Steve believes that while technology can aid communication, it cannot replace the deep cultural understanding and personal satisfaction that come from learning languages. He emphasizes that speaking with a language partner is a fundamentally different experience from using a translation device.

What are some of Steve Kaufman's interests outside of language learning?

Apart from language learning, Steve is interested in history, sports (particularly ice hockey and golf), and spending time with his family. He also enjoys watching series with subtitles to pick up dialogue in different languages.

Outlines

00:00

🌟 Introduction and Background

The video begins with Luca Alemanperello introducing Steve Kaufman, a renowned language learner and creator of the language learning platform, LingQ. Kaufman shares his career journey, starting as a Canadian diplomat and working in the forest industry, to becoming a passionate language learner. He discusses his experiences learning languages in Japan and his motivation to develop LingQ, a platform designed to help others learn languages more efficiently.

05:01

🌐 The Start of Language Learning

Steve Kaufman delves into his early experiences with language learning, starting with French in Montreal and later learning Mandarin and Japanese. He emphasizes the importance of motivation and confidence in language acquisition, sharing how his success in learning French inspired him to tackle other languages. Kaufman also discusses the challenges of learning languages and the satisfaction of overcoming them.

10:02

📚 The Birth of LingQ

Kaufman shares the story behind the creation of LingQ, which began as a solution to his own frustrations with traditional language learning methods. He talks about his experiences with software development and how he applied this knowledge to build a platform that could help language learners. The conversation also touches on the evolution of LingQ from a single-language platform to a multi-language system.

15:03

🗣️ Defining Language Proficiency

Steve Kaufman discusses the concept of language proficiency and how it varies for individuals. He shares his personal experiences with speaking different languages and the challenges of relearning languages after periods of disuse. Kaufman emphasizes that fluency is not about perfection but about effective communication and understanding.

20:03

🌍 Maintaining Multiple Languages

Kaufman talks about his approach to maintaining multiple languages, highlighting the importance of accepting uncertainty and the natural ebb and flow of language skills. He shares his strategies for refreshing languages and the role of his platform, LingQ, in this process. Kaufman also discusses the research around interleaving, learning, and forgetting, and how it applies to language maintenance.

25:04

📚 Current Language Learning Routine

Steve Kaufman details his current language learning routine, focusing on Arabic and Persian. He explains his decision to drop Turkish temporarily to concentrate on these languages and how he integrates listening and reading into his daily life. Kaufman also discusses the role of curiosity in language learning and how it drives him to explore and understand new languages.

30:06

✍️ The Role of Writing in Language Learning

Kaufman reflects on the role of writing in language learning, sharing his personal experiences with writing in different languages. He discusses the convenience of digital tools and the benefits of typing over handwriting for certain languages. Kaufman acknowledges the value of writing but emphasizes that his current approach focuses on listening and reading.

35:08

🔑 Keys to Language Learning Success

Steve Kaufman outlines the three key factors for successful language learning: the learner's attitude, the time spent with the language, and the ability to notice patterns and details within the language. He emphasizes the importance of enjoying the learning process and not getting too caught up in the details, which can hinder progress.

40:09

🧠 Attitude and Language Learning Beliefs

Kaufman discusses the impact of attitude on language learning, citing examples of individuals with negative attitudes towards languages or language learning. He highlights common limiting beliefs that can prevent people from achieving language learning success, such as an overemphasis on details and a resistance to embracing new language structures. Kaufman encourages a more holistic approach to language learning.

🌟 Personal Interests Beyond Language Learning

Steve Kaufman shares his other interests beyond language learning, such as history, sports, and spending time with family. He emphasizes that polyglots are well-rounded individuals with diverse interests and that language learning enriches these other areas of life.

🌐 The Importance of Learning Languages in the Age of Technology

Kaufman addresses the question of whether it's important to learn languages in the era of advanced translation technology. He argues that while English can get by in many situations, learning additional languages offers significant personal and professional benefits that technology cannot replicate. He also promotes the supportive nature of the polyglot community and encourages participation in language learning events.

Keywords

💡Language Learning

Language learning is the process of acquiring new languages beyond one's native tongue. In the video, Steve Kaufman emphasizes the importance of attitude, time spent with the language, and the ability to notice patterns as key to successful language acquisition. His journey of learning multiple languages is highlighted, showcasing his passion for the process and the cultural insights it offers.

💡Polyglot

A polyglot is a person who knows and uses multiple languages. The term is often used to describe individuals with an exceptional ability to learn and speak several languages fluently. In the video, Steve Kaufman is referred to as a polyglot due to his proficiency in numerous languages, which he uses to connect with different cultures and enhance his professional endeavors.

💡Link (LingQ)

Link, also known as LingQ, is a language learning platform developed by Steve Kaufman and his son Mark. It is designed to help users learn languages through a combination of listening, reading, and engaging with native speakers. The platform emphasizes real-life language use and aims to improve comprehension and fluency.

💡Cultural Understanding

Cultural understanding refers to the knowledge and appreciation of the history, customs, and social habits of different cultures. In the context of the video, Steve Kaufman highlights that learning languages has allowed him to gain a deeper understanding of various cultures, which has enriched his personal and professional life.

💡Language Attitude

Language attitude refers to an individual's feelings, beliefs, and behaviors towards a language and its speakers. A positive attitude is crucial for language learning, as it fosters motivation and openness to the learning process. Steve Kaufman emphasizes that a good attitude towards language learning is one of the three essential factors for success.

💡Time Investment

Time investment in language learning refers to the amount of time dedicated to practicing and engaging with the target language. It is a critical factor in achieving fluency and mastery. Steve Kaufman stresses that no shortcuts exist and that consistent time spent with the language is necessary for progress.

💡Noticing in Language Learning

Noticing in language learning is the ability to observe and recognize patterns, structures, and nuances within a language. It involves actively paying attention to the language's details, which leads to better understanding and retention. Steve Kaufman considers the ability to notice as one of the three keys to language learning, suggesting that it enhances the learning process.

💡Professional Advantage

Professional advantage refers to the benefits one gains in their career due to their language skills. In the video, Steve Kaufman explains how his ability to speak multiple languages, such as Japanese and Swedish, has given him a competitive edge in his professional life, allowing him to connect with clients and suppliers more effectively.

💡Cultural Satisfaction

Cultural satisfaction is the personal fulfillment and enrichment that comes from understanding and engaging with different cultures. In the video, Steve Kaufman describes how learning languages has provided him with a deeper cultural understanding and a sense of satisfaction that goes beyond just language proficiency.

💡Language Learning Platforms

Language learning platforms are online systems or applications designed to facilitate the study of languages. They often provide tools for listening, speaking, reading, and writing practice. In the video, Steve Kaufman discusses the creation of his platform, Link (LingQ), which is an example of such a platform aimed at improving language learners' comprehension and fluency.

Highlights

Steve Kaufman shares his language learning journey, starting with French and leading to a passion for learning multiple languages.

Kaufman's initial interest in languages was sparked by a McGill University professor who taught French civilization, demonstrating the impact of a great teacher on learner motivation.

Steve's experience as a Canadian diplomat and in the forest industry provided opportunities to learn languages like Mandarin and Japanese.

The development of the language learning platform LINQ (Language Instruction for National Diplomacy) began with Steve's personal frustration learning Spanish and German.

LINQ evolved from a desire to improve upon traditional language learning methods, leveraging technology like MP3s and online dictionaries.

Steve Kaufman's approach to language learning involves大量的 listening and reading, using tools like LINQ to enhance comprehension and vocabulary.

Kaufman discusses the importance of attitude in language learning, emphasizing acceptance of making mistakes and being open to new linguistic structures.

The concept of 'noticing' in language acquisition is highlighted as a key factor in successful language learning, alongside attitude and time spent with the language.

Steve addresses the misconception that polyglots only talk about language learning, explaining that language is a gateway to broader interests like history and culture.

Kaufman shares his personal interests outside of language learning, including sports, history, and spending time with family.

The discussion touches on the importance of learning languages in today's world, despite advancements in translation technology.

Steve Kaufman's fluency in multiple languages has significantly impacted his professional career, providing unique opportunities and connections.

Kaufman emphasizes the value of genuine conversation over machine translation, highlighting the personal connection and cultural understanding that comes with language proficiency.

The polyglot community is described as supportive and mutually beneficial, encouraging language learners to engage and grow.

Steve Kaufman's pronunciation and language skills are praised, showcasing the effectiveness of his language learning methods.

Kaufman encourages participation in polyglot gatherings and conferences, offering a welcoming environment for language enthusiasts.

Transcripts

hi guys this is luca alemperello from

lucanopure.com and today

i am with the man the legend steve

kaufman for those who follow my channel

most of those who found on my channel

i'm pretty sure that they already know

steve but

just in case there's anybody left who

doesn't know on this planet who doesn't

know steve

steve please can you introduce yourself

what do you do what do you stand for

and within the language learning world

and

too much flattery here but i will try to

answer

so so i am a person who likes languages

uh for most of my career initially like

seven years i was a canadian diplomat

and then i was in the forest industry

initially working for large corporations

and then set up my own company which i

still have in the you know in the trade

of wood products

along the way i learned a bunch of

languages both as a diplomat and while

working in the wood business because i

was in japan

and all that kind of stuff and then in

the last say

15 years i have been very interested in

learning languages i've learned more

languages in the last 15 years

than i learned up to the age of 60. and

uh along the way with my son mark we

developed this

language learning platform called link

which is a big part of my life i

i work for it i talk about it and i

study languages there

uh other than that i have two boys five

grandchildren of course there's wives in

the picture too

you know and uh yeah i like learning

languages i like history i like uh

i like uh food i like italy i like

everywhere actually uh who does that's

what i do who just likes it

and i food is like italy i don't know

the italians

exactly anyway thanks for the lovely

introduction um

i got two questions that came to my mind

so the first question is

how did it all start when it comes to

language learning and the second one is

how did link start i never asked you

this question so now

i want to know like one i don't know all

of a sudden you had

this idea oh let's build link you know i

was interested in both these how did

your language learn

and link so the language learning began

when you know i grew up in montreal

montreal in the 50s was like

1 million english speakers 2 million

french speakers they didn't communicate

much we had french at school much like

you know spanish instruction in the

united states or english

french instruction across most of canada

even today

the kids don't learn very much but uh

for whatever reason and i think i i

had a professor at mcgill university who

was who had this course in french

civilization and he just

turned me on he was the best thing a

teacher can do

is to stimulate uh and and uh motivate a

learner and once the learner is

motivated there's no holding the learner

back

so i got keen on french i watched you

know the in those days the movies you

know la nouvel vag

and then i ended up going off to france

where i studied for three years at

ciaosko in paris and so i got totally

into

being french you know and once you

discover that you can convert yourself

you can become a fluent speaker of

another language

you know a lot of people have never had

that experience so they don't believe

they can do it

but once i did that i knew i could do it

and then i

i joined the canadian government as a

diplomat and canada was getting ready to

recognize the people's republic of china

and they wanted someone to go to hong

kong to learn mandarin and i said i'm

your man

because i was confident i can do it you

know and i think other people maybe

didn't know if they could learn chinese

and then i lived in japan so along the

way you know and

and so i had opportunities i had

confidence

i felt that i knew how to do it and

obviously if if

it's a challenge every new language is a

challenge

but where you have a challenge that you

think you can cope with that's very

motivating

if you've had success in doing something

if you've been a mountain climber and

you've

climbed mountains that in the dolomites

and then next thing you know you want to

go to

higher mountains and and so forth so

it's just motivating

and as a you know while i was working i

didn't have that much time

to spend on language learning uh

but uh you know since the age of 60 i

have more time

and so yeah i just motivated and so then

that leads me to link why link

so i had along the years because i had

smattering of spanish and german and so

forth i had these books at home and i

would go and read them in spanish and

german

and on every page there's like 10 15

words that i don't know

so i would underline them i'd look them

up i'd make lists and then i'd forget it

all

so it was a tremend not to mention the

time looking it up in the dictionary

so it always frustrated me i knew that

reading was good for learning

i wanted to read these books and after

about 10 pages of

you know every 10th word which doesn't

seem like a lot but it's a lot i don't

know the meaning of the word

so i always had this feeling there's got

to be a better way

and you know at times i'd go to these

sort of you know bilingual books and and

but that's never very satisfying because

you're always

moving from the text in the target

language to looking

for that spot in the you know your own

language and stuff

so i always felt there ought to be a

better way so

so that's one background but the other

background is we had an employee we as a

company in the forest industry we

amongst other things we created software

for sawmills

so we had people doing you know

programming

and i was learning cantonese and i heard

about a chinese immigrant who arrived in

vancouver and had all his money stolen

he had his life savings of ten thousand

dollars

in a bag and the there were gangs that

prey on these people and they just stole

her money and next thing you know his

bag was found empty near chinatown

and uh so i heard about this on chinese

radio

here locally in vancouver so i said well

we can help this guy out

and he's apparently a programmer if he's

good he stays if he's no good

at least we helped him out and he was

his he had a high score on a toefl but

couldn't really communicate didn't

really understand what we were saying

you know there were cultural things that

were missing and so we developed a

program much like link

where you know what i did is i went and

spoke to people

in the rotary here electricians people

running travel bureaus

whatever the range of people you find in

rotary talking about what they do

and we transcribe that so that's living

canadian people

what they do something that the

immigrant has very little clue of

and so to understand the language and to

be able to communicate

and work you have to understand

what the people are what words they use

how they think

and so we had this system much like link

where you're listening to stuff you're

reading it you're looking up words

by that time i had focused you know i

realized that

mp3 technology online dictionaries all

of this

provided a solution to the problem that

i had had

in trying to read my spanish and german

books so out of that

came the original version of link which

was called the linguist and which was

only for learning english

and we tried to interest the and so the

chinese guy went back to china

we tried to immigra interest the

immigration department in this but they

weren't interested because they're so

bureaucratic that anything that doesn't

you know the people who provide the

service they only want to get money from

the government

so anything that might help the

immigrant but doesn't help them collect

more money from the government is of

little interest

and the government says you have to sell

this to the immigration services

group so there was it wasn't going to

work so then we just converted the whole

thing into a multi-language platform

where people you know offer their

languages

audio and text always you know say

something and then transcribe it don't

write it first and then record it

keep it live spontaneous and uh

that was the beginning of link that's

fun and we stayed with it we stayed with

it much much longer than any

it became a project that had to happen

it had a project that we weren't going

to give up on

because and any sane person would have

given up on it

as a commercial venture because it's

expensive you have to pay programmers

uh programmers don't get it right the

first time

we redo it redo it the the browsers

change we've got to redo

it and mobile arrives you got to rela

you know respond to that i mean there's

just so much

all the time that you're spending money

on and it's it's a very busy space i

mean there's lots of people

selling stuff on the internet so it's

difficult to attract attention to

yourself

but it was well worth it because it

works really well and i really like it

i've

learned i think i learned chinese just

by using length well i used a little bit

of some materials but i really found it

right i really found it useful so thanks

for that thanks for creating

it it's a companion it's not the whole

picture but it's it's it's

significant i always say that you can't

learn just with one resource you have to

learn right you have to learn through

multiple resources but if you have nice

resources like link

well so much the better now you said

you've been learning a

ton of languages you got a very

interesting story for each and every

language um

now i'm not going to venture into the

ground of how many languages you speak

i'm more like

interested in knowing what it what does

it mean for you to speak a language when

people say

i speak a language because you know we

have somehow we have to quantify or

maybe we feel the need of quantifying i

speak three

four five six you know even we're going

to have some

somebody invented these hyper polyglots

super poly super duper polyglot

but what does it mean for you to speak a

language how do you feel when you speak

elaine

i always struggle with that because you

know

uh i would like to get credit for all of

the languages that i've put a lot of

effort into

trying to learn and in all of them i

have learned quite a bit

so um but if you were to start speaking

to me now in polish or czech

or greek or romanian i would be dead in

the water

uh and yet when i was in romania i was

speaking

romanian when i was in greece i was

speaking greek and crete on the island

of crete

and i know that i can go back to those

languages

and quickly refresh them because when

you revisit stuff that you learned

before it's it's not lost

and and when you rediscover it which is

fun you get right back to where you work

so am i allowed to say that i speak

romanian or greek like korean i don't

speak korean very well

but i kind of speak it like the koreans

you know wow

as long as they stay within the range of

what i can deal with i'm okay

so you know i can say that 12 languages

i can speak i can turn on now i can

speak with mistakes

you know russian german make lots of

mistakes but i understand exactly what

people are saying

i can communicate and and you know or my

portuguese is very poor

because it sounds more like spanish but

i just have trouble

doing the really portuguese thing but i

can communicate i understand everything

they're saying

so those i count as speak but you know

even unlike turkish and

and persian i have done exit videos

in those languages after three months of

intensive learning

but turkish right now i would be i would

struggle

so you know when you say do you speaks

but then there are people who can say

hello how

are you in five languages do they

qualify does that qualify as speaking

it's a i in the end uh i

because the term is so vague i think

that if you have

i would call it a2 on the european

framework

you can say you speak the language even

though you don't speak it very well

right if you want to say i i would say

it this way use

a2 you can say i speak the language b2

you can say you're fluent even though

you're follow mistakes

and then once you're into c you can say

i'm very fluent

or i speak it well right so what what

does

what does fluency mean for you that's

another interesting question

so b2 what does it mean for okay it's a

label right but what does it mean in

concrete terms like what

okay those are skills if i okay if i if

i think of all the people that i've

dealt with in english

okay who operate quite comfortably in

english

uh whether they be japanese german

swedish and they always make the same

mistakes

like uh you know the swedish they always

say because

they are they are among uh you know folk

stockholm so

it is many people in stockholm they say

that that's what they say in english

because that's what they say in swedish

so that's a mistake or uh the german

will always say

i have been living in canada since many

years

well yeah that's what they always say so

they make

a lot of these very fundamental mistakes

that come from their own native language

they haven't been able to get away from

those habits

uh but they're still fluent so uh

speaking with mistakes is fine speaking

french without the subjunctive is fine

fluent to me as you unders this

comprehension is the key

you understand fundamentally everything

people say

at you you might have trouble in a movie

like if you're not in the situation

but if you're in the situation with

people you understand what's being said

you speak but you're searching for words

sometimes

and you make mistakes that's fluent

that's not

very fluent or speaking very well if

you're going to say you speak

very well you have to make few mistakes

like i think i speak french

very well because i make few mistakes

it's not that i make no mistakes

but i make few mistakes i think that's

something that i've learned by looking

at all the

observing all the comments uh on youtube

is that people tend to think that either

they have a zero-sum game mentality

either you're fluent

right so either you're and by fluent

they mean perfect or you're not first

perfection does not exist

and fluency is there's a lot of

different shades of fluency you can be

you can have so many there's so many

nuances to the word and there's so many

definitions i think

it depends on what you mean by it and

everybody sees it and interprets the

word in a different way but the most

important thing is that it's operative

and consistent for you so

going back to what you were saying

before you said that

you know you've been learning a bunch of

languages how do you maintain these

languages because for polyglots the

problem is not just about learning

because you have your own system you

know exactly what to do when it comes to

learning a new language

but what is in your day-to-day life to

maintain

all these like 15 or 14 or whatever

languages you have

if you're learning new ones i think you

were learning turkish

farsi and uh arabic is that

arabic yeah three easy languages right

right

so uh you know i think the condition

you know if you want to be a polyglot or

even a language learning you have to

accept

uncertainty so if you're worried about

losing your language don't become a

polyglot

so i don't worry about making mistakes i

don't worry about what i don't

understand

as i'm progressing in a language i'll

eventually understand more of it right

now i don't understand it that's fine

uh languages are slipping if i run into

a romanian

i'm dead in the water i can't say

anything even though

and you know and it's strange like uh i

don't know if you were in the

the polyglot gathering in slovakia and

bratislava

but in preparation for bratislava i

think you were there actually and i was

working the many stories in slovakia

slovak they're just totally focused on

trying to be able to say something in

slovak while i'm in bratislava and it

worked i was in the mall i was talking

to the shop owners and we were having a

great time in slovakia

there was a ukrainian at the meeting in

bratislava

and my ukrainian far superior to my

slovak i couldn't

open my mouth in ukraine i couldn't say

a thing i was blocked

the slovak had smothered the ukrainian

and yet

i went from bratislava to leave and the

day after i arrived

i was okay in ukrainian so the fact that

you can't

quickly just now do it because that

language is not strong enough

it doesn't concern me and uh in

particular with the many stories like i

find the many stories really useful

that's how i learn the language and when

i go to refresh i go right back to the

many stories to me it's like your

core exercises in the gym like that's

your core

and so i have that store that's almost

like a

a database a memory bank not in my brain

but in the many stories at link so if i

were to go off to poland now

i would go and do the mini stories in

polish and when i

get to poland i'll be fine the first day

not

so good but within a few days i'll be

i'll be just fine so

i don't worry about it i also know from

research that

anything that you forget and relearn

you're going to know it better

in other words there's a whole bunch of

research around interleaving and

learning and forgetting and relearning

so to me it's not an issue

and i don't deliberately go about trying

to maintain them

if i have to have a conversation in in

italian or

i'm going to be interviewed on chinese

television i might listen to a cd or at

least an mp3 file or do a mini story or

something just a little bit just to kind

of get me

a little bit better but i don't worry

about it whatever

it is what it is and and so i think we

have to be willing to accept

uncertainty failure all those things

uh and so yeah if i were hung up on

on you know taking my uh whatever

japanese to a higher level i would be

forever

perfecting my japanese so i would never

have explored

greek romanian not to mention i'm having

a ball with arabic

both standard arabic and also now i'm

i'm getting into levantine arabic and

we're watching the series in levantine

arabic

and at one point they uh they're

rehearsing for a play but the play is in

standard arabic

so i i was so glad that i did both

standard arabic and i'm

going into leavening arabic but it's all

part of the same it's all exploring

so i never worry about i i made the

choice i would rather explore more

rather than try to perfect what i

already have you said a few

uh quite a few interesting things one

thing i wanted to say is that

uh for the people who are maybe they're

still not politics who want to become

polyglots you have to

accept the fact that our skills vary

with time

there are moments when uh for example i

don't know my russian was much stronger

than say my polish and now it's the

opposite because of life circumstances

and you can always go back to it and

refresh it there's nothing you can do

we're limited in space and time and the

more languages

you you have under your belt necessarily

there are some that will practice a

little bit less because we only have 24

hours in the day forget about forget

about perfection there is nobody on this

planet who's able to speak

off the cuff at the drop of a hat i

don't know 20 languages like that

it's just it's just something that does

not belong to this

planet anyway so uh it something

interesting you're saying that you've

been learning um

you know farsi you've been learning

persian uh arabic

and uh remind me here the third language

turkish turkish but i drop turkeys for

now right so what is it that you do i've

i'm a lot of people ask me uh they've

asked me i'm gonna

make these videos and in the in the near

future what is it that you do when it

comes to language learning

every single day i'm not referring to

the languages you're maintaining i'm

referring to the languages you're

actively learning what does it mean okay

i'm actively learning a language

okay so uh i am a little bit

uh undisciplined so

i started i can't believe it yeah so i

started with

three you know and then i said you know

to me reading is a big part of learning

like there are people who just want to

be able to speak that's fine

but i like to be able to read and it

takes a long time to get used to a new

writing system

it doesn't take a long time to be able

to read very slowly in a new writing

system

it takes a long time to be able to read

comfortably in a

new writing system so i dropped the

turkish so that i could focus in on the

arabic writing system

that means persian and arabic and

now with the arabic where i was doing

standard arabic i decided now because

there's no standard arab no one speaks

it as a natural language there are

netflix

movies in egyptian and levantine so i'm

going to start getting into those

so so that's by way of like what i

decide to do so for a while i'm going to

do turkish then i drop turkish because

i'm not writing an exam i do whatever i

want to do and so far as the routine is

concerned

typically i will get i get up before my

wife

and i will listen to something i'm at a

spot in arabic where i'm not good enough

to listen to something

really interesting but i listen to it

anyway so i could go and find an al

jazeera or a phosphate cat

podcast to listen to understand 10 or 15

of it but it has the advantage of being

at least interesting

or i can go back to stuff that i've

worked on before

where i'm reinforcing things but it's

not as interesting

in either case i will listen to

something i will listen to something for

15-20 minutes while i

make my fruits you know we i prepare

some fruit salad some muesli or whatever

it might be you know

that's 20 minutes so i'm listening and

i'll find 20 minutes i clean up after

breakfast

uh during the day i will typically work

out so there's another

half hour a day of listening and if i'm

in the car going somewhere

so i easily get in an hour of listening

every day

what the listening does is it triggers

curiosity which is a big part of

language learning

i listened i didn't understand even with

say the mini stories that i'm listening

to there are parts of it that i still

don't understand after having listened

to it 30 times

or i want to get a better hold on so

that having listened now i want to get

in there and read

so i will find time during the day on my

ipad

to go through uh either what i listen to

like i have

for my uh arabic i have someone who

transcribes

these podcasts for me because there are

no tr uh what do you call the

transcripts

so i'll go through it on link and read

it

uh i will as i turn the page on link i

review the words on that page

i i don't go to the whole vocabulary

list or

the anki you know hundreds and hundreds

of hundreds of words

i will review in some kind of flashcard

activity

uh five six eight words that come from

the page that i just finished reading

because i want to reinforce it right

away and what i'm reviewing is not only

new words that i found there but also

words that i have previously looked up

which i still don't know

but they tie right back to to what i'm

reading

so basically that's it i uh have

online sessions with a tutor but i i

just find that the hour i spend with the

tutor

at at my stage i i prefer to spend that

it's easier for me just to listen and

write because i can do that whenever i

want otherwise i i

sign up for a tutor comes the appointed

time and i have something else on and

it's just not as convenient it's a great

thing to do it

it's motivating you connect with someone

but i tend not to do much of that

basically i listen 70 percent and then

30

40 of the time minutes like whatever 25

is on the ipad going through these uh

either easy stuff like the mini stories

or

difficult stuff or the stuff that my

iranian

gal is doing on the history of persia

which is great stuff

and so i mean that's ideal that's

intermediate content on something of

interest right now

as they say the devils in the uh and the

details i was i was curious as

you said that you listen a lot because

it stimulates curiosity and then which i

found very interesting and then you go

and read but don't you think that

right a lot of people might want to read

and listen or read first in order to

understand something and then enjoy it

because

as far as i'm concerned i always try to

read at least

once or read and listen the first time

that i see some content so that i can

understand it i can listen to it that's

fine

but what you're you were saying if maybe

i got it wrong is that you're listening

multiple times

even if you don't understand and then

you read did i understand

okay so yeah so to explain that i do a

lot of

listening and reading at the same time

too i go into what we call sentence mode

and there i can listen to just that

sentence because

it's still difficult for me arabic is

difficult persian is difficult and

especially in persian where we don't

have text to speech it's difficult so i

go sentence by sentence

and i listen to it and then i read it

and i listen again and i read and i try

to hammer that

sentence into my brain then i listen

again later on i still don't understand

what i understood when i was doing it

sentence by sentence i now no longer

understand but that's just part of the

process i'm sure you have the same

experience

uh but it's the convenience when i get

up in the morning

i've got to make breakfast so i don't

have the luxury of sitting down and

reading and listening and going through

my sentences and doing that ahead of

time

i jump out of bed i start to make

breakfast so i start by listening

if i'm in the car i listen so the the

big advantage of the listening

it's not necessarily that that's the

best way to do it it's just that

there's a lot more time available for

call it hands-free listening

than there is for deliberate study if i

have deliberate study i'm going to read

i'm going to read and listen i'm going

to do all those things i'm going to

review the words as i turn the page

do all of those things when i'm sitting

there dedicatedly you know dedicated to

studying

but the listening that i'm getting in is

basically

while i'm doing other things right um do

you jot anything by hand

do you use a pencil or system paper or

it's mainly digital

ipad okay uh

again i'm lazy when i was learning

chinese i wrote

everything by hand we had to we had to

write we had to translate from english

to chinese chinese english we had to

translate you know newspaper editorials

into chinese

and i think it's a good thing to do but

that's the last language

that i have written by hand i never

wrote japanese i lived in japan for nine

years

never ever wrote japanese uh don't

write russian don't write hangul don't

write

arabic i would love to when i see people

writing arabic i mean it's beautiful

but i don't i mean you just it's you

have to make certain choices

it's undoubtedly a good thing to do but

again i tend to do what's easy to do but

what about typing

so there are systems where you can

download the keyboard and it's really

easy to type

oh yeah yeah type but i only type if i'm

required

okay if i have to answer someone who

asked me something

uh but it's just i just don't i i'm not

saying that that's

you know the optimum way to learn a

language it's just that

at my stage i do what's easy to do of

course so

i just listen and read it's the easiest

thing to do uh

i don't speak that much when i am in a

situation where i'm with someone

yeah you know i will take advantage of

that opportunity but i don't

seek that out and i'm sure that writing

is a very good thing to do

translating is a good thing to do but i

just don't do that but

if i were preparing for an exam i would

certainly do right and do what you like

do what you enjoy this is one of the

principles

so going back to or advancing moving

forward in the

in the conversation what are the if

someone comes to you and asks you steve

as an expert as a language expert what

are the most

important things of factors to keep in

mind when it comes to learning a

language

what would you say the three four

whatever you know the number doesn't

matter what are the things that really

make a difference that maybe all

successful language learners have in

common when it comes to acquiring a

language to success meaning to

get to speak the language fluently

you know i always come back to the three

keys that

were once announced by this head of the

san diego state language department i

was at a conference

american teachers of foreign language

and she said there's only three things

that matter in language learning

uh the attitude of the learner

second time spent with the language

not time spent talking in english about

spanish or

explaining spanish grammar spent time

time spent with the language only with

the language and the third thing is the

ability to notice

now stephen krashen says no there's no

such thing as the ability to know it's

whatever

i i am increasingly convinced that

noticing is

very important so if we just step back

so obviously attitude you have to

want to learn you have to be confident

that you can learn

you have to like the language at least

some aspects of the culture you don't

have to like the whole culture you have

to find something you like

a person you like there has to be

something that attracts you to the

language

i mean ideally yeah people have to learn

english for work and maybe they don't

like it but

but in an ideal scenario all of those

things have to be there

and for that to work therefore do things

you enjoy because that's going to make

you positive about the whole experience

second thing is time it takes a lot of

time there is there are no shortcuts

you got to put in the time every day and

you don't learn the language in a couple

of months

unless unless it's like you know you're

a portuguese person that's moved to

spain

that's a different scenario that's

almost the same language but if you're

learning a genuinely different language

it takes a lot of time so time is key

and this noticing thing like a lot of

things you're just going to notice

because you're motivated because you

listen a lot you

read a lot you start naturally to notice

more and more things

but you have to want to notice some

people won't notice

i always use the example of my father

who was fluent in english

but he to him however the the

english was written he would pronounce

it czecho

check style because he was originally

from czechoslovakia and and almost

he didn't want to pronounce it like i

mentioned you know nova scotia is a

province in canada

him with nova scotia nova scotia it's

not that he can't pronounce

sha but t i a is scotia

you know that's what it should be so he

didn't notice or he didn't

want to you know pronounce it that way

but you have to notice

and i find that the more i listen if i

listen to my mini stories 30 times

i'm i'm always noticing something

different something that might have been

explained to me

three months ago and had no effect on me

and

explanations can also help you notice

but the fact that it's explained to you

doesn't mean you really notice it

or you don't believe that that's really

what happens in the language and then at

some point you start to notice it so

there has to be this this desire this

interest in paying attention not only in

terms of pronunciation but also

structure

and all those things you got to pay

attention and it's and it's not a matter

of

i taught you this therefore you must now

you know you will have learned it and

now you

we will test you on it you won't learn

it you won't remember it

but at least notice it and notice it

again

and notice it a third and a fourth and a

fifth time and eventually it becomes a

part of you

you develop these new habits so so to me

it's the attitude of the learner

the time you spend with the language and

developing

beyond the natural ability to notice

which to some extent we notice certain

things

but really focus to want to notice

how the language works those would be

the three thank you it's that's great

great information now

um let's talk a little bit about

attitude i'm interested in that

um can you give me an example of a

person who's got a bad attitude what are

the implications of having

a bad attitude towards not only the

language but language learner it's lear

it's native speakers or whatever and

what do you think

are the most critical and crippling

beliefs limiting beliefs that normal

people or people are not

language experts have towards language

learners

after 10 years of trying to learn a

language and

not being able to string a sentence

together because that's the case for

for a lot of people large number

you know there's a number of things um

when i was learning chinese i had a guy

another canadian

diplomat studying with me he was in his

30s

and we we discovered that in chinese to

say

are you going they say you're gonna go

right as you know need chewbacchu

and his reaction was is that ever stupid

okay so a lot of people resist the new

language

they may not say is that ever stupid but

at some level they they just don't

you have to be willing to just take it

in

and and be willing to make mistakes and

just just let it come into you

trust that your brain will learn

eventually

and i think a lot of people you know the

people who've been going to their local

library to learn spanish for 10 years

and can't stream

ascends together they're too hung up on

the details

they did you know chapter 10 is the

subjunctive or something forget it

don't think you can master any basics

you just have to let the language come

at you let your brain get used to it

and try to like it try to like it try to

be like them you know no my father spoke

english very well but he was you know

it's got to be pronounced this way yeah

you know you have to

so i think this this this over obsession

with and by the way it's not just people

i take

because you're italian right so ward

like

oh is all you know they feel uh

that because it's written a certain way

it should be pronounced a certain way

now unfortunately in english it doesn't

work that way

and so you have to be willing to accept

contrary to all of the habits that have

been built in you

based on how you know your own writing

system

works that in this other language it

doesn't work that way

just accept it and so i think a lot of

people

who uh now you know someone who's been

at the library

studying for 10 years and can't speak at

least they like the idea of learning

spanish

at least they think that's a good that's

something that they would want to do

so i mean the biggest problem is when

you have people who are not

interested i don't wanna i don't like

spanish i don't like spanish-speaking

people

negative that so that's forget it those

guys are never going to get there but

someone who goes for 10 years to the

library hopes to learn spanish

and they still don't learn it's because

they're hung up on the details

and and they're not willing to just let

sort of holistically

the language come at them focus on

comprehension

focus on enjoying the language don't

worry about what you can say

i think there's far too much emphasis in

language class

on speaking because you're not going to

speak well

too much focus on on drills and you're

going to get them wrong

and and i get them wrong like

comprehension questions that's the most

stupid thing

so so i listened to something and then

ask me well what did you know luigi say

to maria

i can't remember i get it wrong

don't i misunderstood it so what it's my

understanding for whatever five minutes

that i listened the whole bunch of

italian was washing over my brain

that's all good now don't force me to

try to remember

so a lot of things are done in

traditional class that

set people up for failure create a lot

of negativity

and i think these then become blocks

obstacles

if we could focus more on people

enjoying the process enjoy what you

understand

don't worry about what you don't

understand uh

enjoy the music of the language uh

you know i think those are some of the

some of the the obstacles that people

have

and i blame a lot traditional

instruction for a lot of yes

um i wanted to ask i know we're running

out of time i would be

we could be speaking forever um i have

three questions

other three questions and that's it i

promise um no problem

the first one is a lot of people they

haven't criticized me personally but

i've

been hearing this thing thrown at

polyglots all politics are just about

language learning they just know about

language learning so i want to ask you

what is it that makes you tick what is

it that make what is it that

apart from language learning uh i mean

things you're really interested in for

example in my case i'm really interested

in

philosophy history astronomy

physics astrophysics something that i

never talk about because mine

is a youtube channel dedicated to

language learning and sometimes people

say oh look it just speaks about

languages because that's the only thing

he talks about

he can talk about but it's a little bit

unfair so

i was wondering if you spend a lot of

time or sometimes

some part of your day doing reading

books or getting interested you're

interested in other things in general

well you know there is a saying that if

you want to get something done

ask a busy person so uh

i don't think polyglots spend their

whole day just on languages

polyglots are active people curious

about things

so in my case yes i'm very interested in

language

but language to me is a door to history

culture and so forth so when i was

learning ukrainian

a large part of my learning material was

i found audiobooks and corresponding

ebooks on the history of ukraine the

same for poland same for russia

so very interesting to explore eastern

and even czech

there's this wonderful series uh you

know tolkiesko

so through the language you discover the

history you get a better sense of the

people

i i my world map starts to

come alive and so now my world map

i'm looking at the middle east and and

while you're learning the language of

course

you understand the extent to which

turkish

peoples and and iranian peoples

who have some shared history and the

greeks and the arabs and

and so i i sort of digressed from my

language learning to go off and read

something on

on the history of that you know

area of the world and so that whole part

of the world

starts to come alive for me and i love

doing that

another aspect of it is watching you

know a series on netflix which my wife

likes to do we have english subtitles i

don't really understand what they're

saying in levantine arabic but i'm

picking up

30 40 50 of their dialogue which is very

you know stimulating for me but you also

you get into their life how do people

live in lebanon

of course the series is false like they

all drive fancy cars they all live in

beautiful homes

that's not the true picture of lebanon

but it does or turkey it's the same

it doesn't matter that's all fun but the

other things that i do i like sports

so i play golf my wife is a fanatic but

she pulls me out there and i do that i

before covid i was playing you know

old timers hockey like ice hockey three

times a week

i'm reading a book now on the history of

the uh the indian ocean

starting with the portuguese uh you know

and and

arab british french the whole thing

i like history i'm not into astrophysics

i don't have those kinds of interests uh

definitely into sports i'm a great

sports fan

but largely hockey like that's my sport

that i follow the professionals in and

and play

and of course i have my son and and uh

you know his three wife and three kids

here in in vancouver my uh

family in london uh so there's family

time there's friends

yeah there's lots of stuff that's

happening you have a full life beautiful

life

yeah yeah and languages make it only

better um another

only better yeah another question i have

is if someone comes to you says uh okay

steve well i just speak

i speak english but i can uh you know

get by everywhere in the world and

is it important to learn more languages

nowadays with all this technology coming

that we're being i don't know if you've

seen all these

info commercials of someone who talks to

a machine and that it translates and

these translators are becoming better

and better

not only like transcribing and

translating is it why is it i think it's

important to speak languages because you

can't substitute

a machine but do you think it's all the

more important to learn languages

nowadays or you think

you know maybe you can learn a couple of

languages and that's it because

technology is going to

take over it's going to help us

communicate in any way and we just need

maybe

english to to get by

well i would answer like in three ways

first of all

you can get by with just english and and

uh

but i would say both professionally

uh socially and in terms of my

personal interest things that i'm

curious about i have benefited

tremendously

from learning languages so with regard

to my professional career

if i hadn't been able to speak japanese

i would not have been able to

connect with i was in the wood business

i connected with downstream

retailers wholesalers home builders uh

which

this was not available to other people

who could only deal with the mitsubishi

mitsui you know the big trading

companies where

they have english language skills which

don't exist downstream

uh i you know we worked with suppliers

in sweden

everybody in sweden speaks english but

when i wanted to communicate with the

sawmill workers about the quality

requirements for the japanese market

and i spoke to them in swedish i had

more credibility they bought in

that helped you know i've been marketing

in france in germany

they speak english more or less but or i

certainly would have had an agent who

could have spoken english but connecting

with them in their language even in

germany

even in sweden just another level of

connection but you don't have to they're

very successful very many successful

business people

who do it just in english

also in so far as using this technology

so i was in vietnam

and i tried my damnedest to learn some

vietnamese before going like for two but

for a very short period of time like two

weeks get a phrase book listen listen

listen get a phrase book

and when i got to vietnam i couldn't do

a thing because in fact that's not

a realistic thing to do because you

can't you can't just come with a few

phrases and expect to communicate

so what i ended up doing was using my

iphone if i was very

you know i needed to communicate i could

speak into

you know google translate out come some

vietnamese we can even listen to the

vietnamese

he answers something so we can

communicate but that's not a

conversation

uh on the other hand i'm i'm on a flight

out of uh

out of um uh iguazu

in brazil person sitting beside me turns

out is ukrainian

and we talk in ukrainian

all the way to rio and we could have

been speaking in

in portuguese that's a different level

from sitting there going into your

iphone and speaking into the iphone and

the iphone comes out and says something

it's just not the same it's not the same

so that the personal sense of

satisfaction not to mention

reading about the history of ukraine

reading about

you know things related to you know when

i was learning greek i got this podcast

on the building of the parthenon

i mean you're not going to do that on

your iphone so if you are interested in

these things

then there's a much deeper level of

cultural satisfaction from learning

these languages

and and it does improve your

opportunities

sort of professionally but it's not a

condition i mean a lot of people

get by with just english sure anyway

this already answers the question

uh the third question i want to ask you

the benefits that you reap from speaking

multiple languages are immense it really

changes your

immense you know changed my life yeah

mine too

don't trust me you're fine too um

absolutely okay well

i think that's it thank you for the

wonderful information it's been a

pleasure well it's

fun and and thank you for all you do and

to promote more interest and

in language learning and as i said in my

other interview i salute you on the

quality of your

of your languages uh your pronunciation

is astounding

don't fire me too much i've flooded you

before you're flattering now you can

tell the audience my audience where they

can find you and we'll kind of put

everything in the in the description box

okay well uh you know link is lingq.com

i have a youtube channel called lingo

steve

and i think my blog is the linguist you

know what i

will put it in the description i'll put

everything in the description

but i'm i'm we're a group i should say

that the

polyglot community

is one of the most sort of mutually

supportive

groups if you go to a polyglot meeting

there

and sometimes you get people say well

these polyglots they're sort of

peacocking strutting their stuff and

showing off

that is not at all what it's like you

can go everybody

is supportive everybody is if you're you

are with friends everybody likes you no

one criticizes you

it's a great great community the

atmosphere of the polygon gathering and

the polyglot conference and now

in canada i think it's being long

festival festival

that's just great so whenever if you

have a chance if you've never heard of

these conferences

type polygon conference polygon

gathering and we will be meeting me

steve and a lot of other a lot of other

fantastic

uh like-minded people thank you very

much uh this is it for now okay thank

you for watching and for listening and

i'll talk to you i'll see you

in on youtube very soon bye ciao bye-bye