Industry and Insights CPA vs CMA with John Moore
Summary
TLDRThe transcript features a conversation with Dr. John Moore, Chair of Accounting and Finance at Walsh College, discussing the CPA vs CMA credentials, their significance in the accounting industry, and the career opportunities they offer. Dr. Moore shares his personal journey from becoming a CPA to a CFO, highlighting the evolving landscape of accounting due to technology. He emphasizes the importance of critical thinking, communication skills, and real-world application in the field, advocating for the value of a Walsh education that combines technical knowledge with practical experience.
Takeaways
- π Accounting offers a vast array of career opportunities with wide salary ranges, making it important to understand the various paths available.
- π Both CPA (Certified Public Accountant) and CMA (Certified Management Accountant) are prestigious credentials in the accounting field, each with different focuses and requirements.
- π’ CPAs are more focused on public accounting, external reporting, and assurance services, while CMAs are geared towardsε ι¨ε³ηζ―ζ and cost accounting.
- π‘ The accounting industry has evolved significantly with technology, shifting from manual processes to more analytical and decision-making roles.
- π CPAs and CMAs are in high demand, with a shortage of highly qualified accountants and finance professionals in the current job market.
- π Earning a CPA or CMA can lead to high-level executive positions such as CFO (Chief Financial Officer) and controllership roles in both public and private sectors.
- π Walsh College stands out for its faculty's real-world experience, blending technical knowledge with practical application, providing a well-rounded education for accounting and finance careers.
- πΌ Career progression in accounting is not just about the numbers but also about effective communication, critical thinking, and the ability to influence decision-making within an organization.
- π° Salaries for CPAs and CMAs are on the rise, with potential for a good work-life balance and rewarding career paths.
- π The accounting profession requires a combination of technical skills, soft skills, and the ability to adapt to the changing landscape of business and technology.
Q & A
What are the key differences between a CPA and a CMA?
-A CPA (Certified Public Accountant) is a professional designation that focuses on external financial reporting, public accounting, and involves passing a rigorous exam and meeting specific education and experience requirements. A CMA (Certified Management Accountant), on the other hand, is more focused on internal management accounting and financial decision-making within an organization. While both roles are highly respected, they cater to different aspects of the accounting field.
What is the significance of obtaining a CPA certification?
-Obtaining a CPA certification establishes credibility and expertise in accounting. It is a challenging exam that signifies the holder has a deep understanding of financial statements, auditing, and taxation. CPAs often find opportunities in public accounting, corporate finance, and other high-level financial roles, and the certification can open doors to a wide range of career paths.
What are the educational requirements for becoming a CPA?
-To become a CPA, one typically needs 150 credit hours of education, which includes a bachelor's degree and additional coursework. Specific accounting classes are required as prerequisites, and this has evolved over time to reflect the changing demands of the profession.
How does the CPA certification impact career opportunities and salary?
-The CPA certification can significantly impact career opportunities by opening doors to various roles in public accounting, corporate finance, and other areas. It also often leads to higher salaries, as it is recognized as a mark of expertise and credibility in the field of accounting and finance.
What is the role of a CMA in an organization?
-A CMA plays a crucial role in an organization by focusing on internal financial decision-making. They analyze cost data, budgeting, and financial performance to help management make strategic decisions. CMAs often work closely with different departments to optimize resource allocation and financial planning.
How does the Walsh College approach to education differ from other institutions?
-Walsh College distinguishes itself by emphasizing real-world experience alongside theoretical knowledge. The faculty, who have extensive industry experience, bring practical insights into the classroom, which prepares students not just to pass exams, but to excel in their careers.
What are some of the key skills that accounting professionals need today?
-In addition to strong technical accounting skills, professionals today need critical thinking, effective communication, and people skills. They must be able to analyze data, make sound business decisions, and communicate complex financial information to non-specialists.
How has technology changed the accounting industry?
-Technology has significantly changed the accounting industry by automating many routine tasks, allowing professionals to focus more on analysis, decision-making, and advisory roles. It has also increased the speed and accuracy of financial reporting and made vast amounts of data more accessible for analysis.
What are some of the advantages of a career in accounting?
-A career in accounting offers a steady career path, the opportunity to work in a variety of industries, and the potential for high earnings. It also provides a solid foundation for understanding business operations and can lead to leadership roles within organizations.
How important is work-life balance in the accounting profession today?
-Work-life balance is increasingly important in the accounting profession, as the industry recognizes the need to maintain employee well-being and prevent burnout. While there are busy periods, many accounting roles now offer a good balance between work demands and personal life.
What advice would you give to someone starting their career in accounting?
-For someone starting their career in accounting, it's important to not only develop a strong understanding of financial principles but also to hone soft skills like communication and critical thinking. Seeking mentorship and real-world experience, as offered at institutions like Walsh College, can greatly enhance one's career prospects and adaptability in the evolving accounting landscape.
Outlines
π Introduction to Accounting Careers
The conversation begins with a discussion on the vast opportunities in the accounting field, highlighting the importance of understanding the different career paths and certifications such as CPA and CMA. Dr. Moore is introduced as a guest with extensive experience in accounting and finance, providing insights into the profession and its evolution over time.
π¨βπ« Dr. Moore's Background and Perspective on Accounting
Dr. Moore shares his personal journey in accounting, starting as a CPA and eventually becoming a Chief Financial Officer. He emphasizes the dynamic changes in the industry, particularly the shift from manual work to technology-driven analytical roles, and the importance of adapting to these changes. His experience in commercial real estate consulting is also mentioned, illustrating the diverse applications of accounting skills.
π The Evolution of Accounting and Technology
The dialogue explores how technology has transformed the accounting industry, making roles less about manual number crunching and more about analysis and decision-making. The speakers discuss the increasing speed of business tasks and the need for accountants to be part of strategic decision-making processes, rather than just focusing on numbers.
π The Accounting Industry Today
The conversation delves into the current state of the accounting industry, noting a shortage of highly qualified accountants. Despite the perception of accounting as a dull field, the speakers argue that it offers exciting and rewarding career paths, especially with the integration of technology and the potential for growth and decision-making roles.
π The Role of CPA and CMA in Accounting
Dr. Moore explains the roles and differences between a CPA (Certified Public Accountant) and a CMA (Certified Management Accountant). He discusses the credibility and technical expertise that a CPA provides, especially in public accounting and assurance services, while the CMA focuses on internal decision-making and cost accounting, with a blend of finance knowledge.
π Forecasting and Analysis in Accounting
The speakers discuss the forecasting aspect of accounting, particularly the ability to analyze financial trends and make predictions based on historical data. They emphasize the importance of understanding the underlying causes of financial changes and the dynamic nature of business, which requires accountants to be adaptable and insightful.
π Career Opportunities and Education Requirements
The conversation shifts to the educational requirements and career opportunities for CPAs and CMAs. Dr. Moore shares his experience in public accounting and the fast-tracking opportunities it offers. He also touches on the different career paths available to CMAs, particularly in the private sector, and the value of both certifications in the business world.
π£οΈ Communication Skills in Accounting
The speakers emphasize the importance of communication skills in accounting, as accountants often need to convey complex financial information to non-specialists. Dr. Moore shares his experience at Walsh College, where the faculty's real-world experience enhances the learning environment, preparing students not just for exams, but for their future careers.
π° Salary Ranges and Work-Life Balance
The discussion concludes with a look at the salary ranges for CPAs and CMAs, noting that both roles offer competitive compensation. The speakers also address the work-life balance in accounting, dispelling the myth of excessive work hours and highlighting the profession's adaptability to modern expectations.
ποΈ Why Choose Walsh College for Accounting Education
Dr. Moore shares his personal story and the value of Walsh College's education, particularly the real-world experience brought by the faculty. He emphasizes the college's tradition of excellence in accounting and the practical, hands-on approach to teaching that prepares students for successful careers in the field.
Mindmap
Keywords
π‘Accounting
π‘CPA (Certified Public Accountant)
π‘CMA (Certified Management Accountant)
π‘Career Opportunities
π‘Education Requirements
π‘Salary Ranges
π‘Technology in Accounting
π‘Walsh College
π‘Work-Life Balance
π‘Real-World Application
Highlights
Accounting offers a vast array of career opportunities with wide salary ranges.
CPA and CMA are important acronyms in the accounting world, but their meanings are not widely known outside the field.
Dr. John Moore, an accounting and finance professor at Walsh College, shares his expertise on CPA vs. CMA.
Accounting has evolved significantly with technology, reducing the need for mundane tasks and increasing analytical roles.
There is a shortage of highly qualified accountants and finance professionals.
Accounting is not a dull field; it offers the opportunity to make decisions that impact businesses and the world.
Walsh College prepares students with real-world application and experience beyond textbook knowledge.
CPA stands for Certified Public Accountant and establishes credibility in accounting expertise.
CMA stands for Certified Management Accountant and focuses on internal decision-making and cost accounting.
CPAs often work in public accounting and assurance services, analyzing financial statements for stakeholders.
CMAs work closely with various teams within an organization, focusing on resource allocation and financial strategy.
Both CPAs and CMAs are highly respected in the business world and can lead to executive roles such as CFO.
Walsh College's accounting and finance programs are distinguished by faculty with real-world experience.
Accounting professionals must be effective communicators to sell ideas and make decisions understood and accepted.
Accounting is a rewarding career with good salary potential and work-life balance.
Walsh College has a tradition of combining technical knowledge with practical, real-world experience in its education.
Transcripts
in the world of accounting there is
massive number of uh career
opportunities the salary ranges are wide
the career aspects are incredibly uh
vast and I think because of that it's
important to understand what exactly
exists we hear acronyms all the time CPA
vers CMA and for the rest of us that
aren't in the world of accounting we
have no idea what these things mean so
today what I've done is I brought in Dr
Moore and what we're going to do is
we're going to talk about what is
exactly the CPA versus the C Ma we're
going to do a little bit of a deep dive
into each one we're going to talk about
some career opportunities some salary
ranges some education requirements and
then we're going to talk about why Walsh
is the place to get these degrees and
get yourself lined up to become the next
CPA and the next CMA and what that looks
like so what I'm going to have you do is
first introduce yourself we're going to
talk a little bit about your background
what you brought you what brought you to
Walsh and then we'll dive in so okay
well uh good to meet with you Jay uh my
background my name is John Moore I'm the
the chair of the accounting and and
Finance departments here at Walsh
college and uh my career actually
started out uh becoming a CPA coming out
of my undergraduate studies uh many many
many moons ago back back in the days of
adding machines and pencils and and
erasers but um so my own career path
eventually led to being a a Chief
Financial Officer out in industry and uh
in a uh mid-career event I I went back
and had a crazy idea of getting a
doctorate so uh I I have my doctorate
and now I uh I I teach what I what I
know and and actually also what I've
learned over the last several decades
being out there uh working in the real
world yeah and you're still doing a
little bit in the real world I I do
consult on the side my uh my specialty
area is commercial real estate and uh I
do
Consulting space nice so how long have
you been in in the accounting industry
now uh I 45 years so you've seen you've
seen some drastic changes take place in
that industry I I wasn't kidding you
when I did when I did pencil and paper
the very so so to put this in
perspective the very first time I ever
turned on a personal computer to work
was uh about six years into my
career um so so so certainly public
accounting has changed since then uh you
you were talking about CPAs and CMAs the
world has become far more Dynamic and uh
actually one of the things I like about
the world now is back then you spent an
awful lot your time doing very mundane
very detailed work and one of the
wonderful things that's happened because
of Technology since then is that these
type of roles are far less what I'll
call a small small work because because
there's there was nobody to help you um
and now you know a big part of these
career paths are being more analytical
and more decisionmaking and and it's
still important to understand the theory
but you don't spend as much time you
know cranking a number technology does
that for you which I think uh if I could
start all over again today it'd be it
it's been fun so far it'd be even more
fun if I were just there today well and
I think we're starting to see that a lot
in different in in a lot of different
categories of Business and Technology of
you know we we had somebody in here last
week we were talking about it and cyber
security and things like that and we
were talking about the the speed at
which people are able to take action and
and complete tasks now is astronomically
faster than it was even 5 years ago yes
and if you go back even further than
that it it it the speed is just
increasing I mean exponentially so I
would imagine that you know as you said
it used to be a lot more pen and pen and
paper and you really trying to figure
those things out now you don't have to
do that so you can spend the time being
analytical and beyond that the numbers
are there for you and you have the
ability to track things down much easier
than you ever did in the past and so so
talk to me a little bit about before we
dive into specifically CPA CMA talk to
me a little bit about what what is
happening in the accounting industry as
a whole that that is maybe happening
today that wasn't happening 10 years ago
and and what's what are people being set
up for now in a in the best ways well
it's interesting for th for those who
are shall I say uh business and
quantitatively inclined it's a very
interesting career path right now uh one
of the things that's happened over the
last couple years is there's actually
been a become a shortage of Highly
qualified accountants um in and and
finance people and why do why do you
think that is I I think there's a
perception that it's a boring um uh dull
type of of industry and and I think I
I'll share with you I think that
couldn't be further from the truth um
because again you you have an
opportunity in this field to be part of
making decisions for for a business
Enterprise and business in general makes
the world a better place abut know talk
about technology and all that progress
that's all on the back of business you
know entrepreneurs uh people who are
looking for Cutting Edge uh products and
services for customers that all runs
through business and that's what makes
business such an exciting career but I
think that um I think frankly uh the
profession hasn't done a good job of
selling itself um and you know we're
obviously going through uh changes in
curriculum here at Walsh so that we can
prepare students to uh be part of what I
think is a it's certainly been
a tremendous uh tremendously rewarding
career for me I'm sure and well and it
and it also helps to have somebody like
yourself who has the industry experience
to know like look this is this is an
exciting time I've been here I've been
here when maybe it wasn't as exciting as
it is today and and let me tell you it's
changing and it's nice to have somebody
like yourself in that seat to to not
only bring in that industry experience
but bring in the things that are beyond
the textbook and let our students
understand what it is what it really is
in the real world well and I would argue
that uh you know my my pathway is
prototypical of all the faculty here at
Walsh College we we we we bring in
technical knowledge but we all have a a
good uh arsenal of War Stories because
because the real world never works the
way the textbook says ever never so so I
know whenever I'm in the classroom we'll
go over a typical uh um you know Topic
in a given night and I always dedicate
some period of time for saying okay what
could possibly go wrong
it usually ends up being an extended
discussion I'm sure I'm sure but it's
but those are the things that are going
to prepare students absolutely and
that's actually what makes the the field
in general I think an exciting
opportunity you know there's a couple
things there's a steady career path you
can have all the technology in the world
you're never going to run out of the
need for accounting and finance Talent
out there so it's a I I I would argue
it's a it's a very solid career path
from that standpoint but I also think
that you know somebody's looking for
something rewarding making a in the
world especially the the way technology
has evolved in the field anybody who's
who's uh uh gotten a certain amount of
experiences in a managerial role in in
in the corporate world you're going to
be part you're going to be at the table
of making decisions that that really are
important and that to me is is a very
fulfilling part of your professional
career you're going to work you know
thousands of hours over a career uh
lifetime do you want to just uh be be
cranking something on a spreadsheet or
pressing a button or do you actually
want to be part of that decision process
that uh that that makes the wheels of
Commerce work absolutely that's a that's
a really good way to put that because we
you know we talk a lot of times about
how our students are are we feel at
least are better prepared than the
average student because they're coming
in and they're having this real world
application on a regular basis so we we
don't even really we lean into what is
the Hands-On thing that you need to know
when you go into your job not what is
the the behind the thing sure we'll
touch on that we'll talk about why why
it exists but that is not where the
majority of the time is spent because to
your point that's not what's happening
when you get into your career absolutely
no and here's here's the key thing in in
this industry in particular if you're
good at it it's really about problem
solving forever in a day in the world of
accounting and finance there are
obstacles and challenges people who are
really good at it are the folks that can
say okay here's here's a challenge
here's a problem how do we fix it and
then put together a you know and this
involves a lot of technical knowledge
but also a lot of critical thinking and
a lot of people skills you know so so so
all those things that people don't think
are part of accounting you know critical
thinking people skills that's actually a
big part of the job yeah well and beyond
that it's it's not even just specific to
accounting and once you get once you
have those skills you can take them to
do everything you want you can have the
critical thinking and and all those
pieces you can take them to do anything
you want in any career I I am testimony
to that because I came out uh of school
with an accounting degree passed my CPA
exam uh I'm a professor today in the
middle of all that uh you know I I uh
was involved in finance you know I've
I've been across the negotiating table
with uh um Venture Capital money from
Wall Street I've negotiated with uh with
banks and financial institutions uh in
my own career you know real estate's
obviously my my my C of the world but
I've been uh the person first in line in
charge of probably half a billion
dollars of real estate acquisitions
invest sh it's probably close to a
billion dollars uh of
financings um to me my accounting
background is where that all started and
and you know we all pick our different
Pathways as to where we take the career
but I could not have
enjoyed the uh the the fun of that
career without starting uh in an
accounting program learning how to debit
and credit yeah absolutely well and it's
also one of the it's one of those
careers that also can impact your
personal life MH and you can and you go
okay this is this is great now here's my
work things and now after work now I
also have to De with my own personal
things and if I know how to do this the
right way absolutely you can set
yourself off to success for the future
too ABS absolutely uh financial literacy
is important to anybody's well-being
longterm and then uh I to be married to
a CPA as well so so we we talk about
that a lot it it's it's a very um good
background to to work out your own
personal goals and and and you know my
my wife and I happen to have a uh you
know a a second home that we built well
that's all built on fulfilling career
path and um and understanding Finance
and Accounting absolutely absolutely so
let's go in a little bit into the
different ones because one of the things
that I have found fascinating over the
time of talking to yourself and other
accounting professionals is there's two
there's two very different Pathways that
that for the people like me the general
public we go no are the same thing but
they're very much not and so let's let's
start with CPA and then we'll move into
CMA so tell me a little bit about what
is a CPA okay a CPA stands for certified
public accountant uh the various um
states in the United States all have
their own uh different uh accrediting
bodies but it's a single exam that's
across the country and what the CPA does
is it establishes uh credibility to your
expertise in accounting it's a it's a
very challenging exam I'll be the first
to admit I didn't that's the first time
got in the second time I actually so we
had one of our alumni one of our alumni
was in here uh last week and he made the
comment and I've heard it three times
since then which is always the funny
part and he said you know CPA stands for
can't pass again and it's and I've heard
multiple people say like this is a very
very difficult exam it it is um although
it's interesting I've always heard CPA
being cut paste and attached so so I
like your definition better than mine um
but
but in addition to passing exam you have
to have a certain amount of experience
and uh it really creates cred ility so
so one thing that comes of it is is
you're technically skilled but at least
in my own experience you have that CPA
certification there's a lot of doors
that open up for you in terms of career
path and and you know I think one thing
to to maybe distinguish uh Jay is is you
know the worlds of accounting and
finance because you know i' my own
courage has touched both they're almost
like first cousin disciplines um in fact
like in finance to do Finance well you
need to know accounting to know
accounting you actually have to know a
little bit about finance and and so so
there are two specific disciplines and
obviously our Focus today is on
accounting but but but Finance does play
its way in we'll talk about that with
with the CMA but but um a CPA has
technical knowledge in terms of the
preparation the understanding of the
ability to analyze financial statements
so so you're expertise and if you're in
a public accounting firm coming out of
uh school you know most of your work
would be in in the area of assurance
Services where you actually go to
clients take a look at financial
statements in my own career I was on the
uh Ford Motor Company audit okay and uh
you know that'd be a month month and a
half out of every year just sitting in
in um in our work room at Ford world
headquarters and uh going over to make
sure that uh Ford was uh uh stating
their their financial statements in
accordance with accounting principles
and uh and and think about you know from
from my own background think about the
importance of of that knowledge because
you have this investor world out there
that's looking for financial results so
so who cares about financial statements
well if you want to go to a bank the
bank cares about financial statements if
you're a publicly traded company all the
shareholders and all the analysts uh are
out there want to know about it if
you're internal in terms of handing out
bonuses to people or or figuring out
where your company's coming and going
you need to have those financial
statements uh present the world as it is
and and in order to do it consistently
and appropriately you have to have
technical expertise it's it's it's hard
in in the in the context of a
conversation to to talk about the
mundane parts of accounting but but but
at the end of the day if you're a CPA
you have the ability to parse financial
information and give all these
stakeholders internal Financial sources
investors um comfort with the
information that they're looking at and
then beyond that you have the ability to
to then analyze and say well what how
does that project forward right what
kind of business decisions can we make
based on what we know right so let's go
a little bit further on that because I
think that's the thing that becomes the
most fascinating and again this goes
back to the earlier part of the
conversation where we say you know the
data is more accessible now than than it
maybe ever has been in the past and we
can do a lot more with it because for
you know technology and and even AI I'm
sure at this point it's coming into play
on on reading that data and those kind
of pieces so let's go a little bit more
into the forecasting side of things so
if you're so as a as a CPA and you're
looking into you're you're in charge of
all the accounting for let's say Ford
right or or doing that that audit what
does that look like on the forecasting
side would it because that's that seems
to me like magic because it is you can
you are somebody who can look at numbers
you can read them so well that you go
here's what 5 years from now looks like
and you can do that with pretty good
confidence well
I I wish it were that easy but but this
is where I think the expertise comes in
handy the technical expertise is you
know you can straight line things out so
you can take a set of financial let's
let's say you and I are looking at a you
know company XYZ we look at three years
ago two years ago one year ago we can
create all sorts of trend analysis but
will it go on a straight line the answer
is no be because because of Technology
change you know so so if you dig down
into those numbers okay if revenues are
are up you know what's behind that Trend
so a big part of accounting is
analyzing what's causing this data to to
change so you know in a company that has
multiple product lines well which ones
are starting to uh perhaps get a little
bit stale uh perhaps there's new
technology new competition where are we
starting to experience some breakout
which represents an opportunity also
think about analyzing your competitor's
financial statements and exactly how
they are approaching things you know are
are there some competitors that are
doing best practices better than you are
there certain uh areas where you're
doing better so so now all of a sudden
as opposed to cranking out data in a
green eyes shade environment like we've
been taught now all of a sudden you're
you're taking a look at all this all
these data points and you're trying to
make some sense in a dynamic environment
where you know there's no business out
there that has a monopoly we're always
in competition with other places so how
can we improve our performance how do we
Stack Up relative to our competition
these are all the the the uh roles and
um opportunities that accountants have
no nobody else in the organization has
the ability to do that uh or have been
trained to do it as well as accountants
and that's where the job becomes a lot
of fun absolutely well you have to have
an understanding of everybody else's
role because you have to because to your
point you have to know in the production
line this thing is picking up but you
have to know not only that it is picking
up but why is it picking up so so I I'll
give you a war story uh going into the
construction business this is the type
of stuff we talking about in the
classroom so so I used to work a lot in
construction that ties into real estate
and I work for a a construction company
where you know you you you you end up
having these projects that take a long
period of time so when you're closing
your let's say have a year-long job and
you're closing your books every three
months every quarter and you're starting
to recognize profits and revenues well
it's all based on estimates well you
know am I 25% done done with the job
right now and in that case this is where
it becomes a people business you have to
go talk to the construction folks the
construction manager who's actually
running that job and say okay you drive
out the job you see how things are going
you talk to the construction manager
what what I found out when I got into
that industry was um some of those
construction managers were overly
optimistic and some of them were
sandbaggers and so so you talk about
people business you have to and these
are intangibles this is not adding 2
plus two to get to four okay I I I have
you know uh I'm estimating my revenues
expenses based on uh percentage of
completion all of that is based upon
site observation as to what's happening
and I'm an accountant so I don't always
know when you know how far the
electrical or the Plumbing's gotten on a
construction
job but but you have to understand
patterns and and and the sources of
information in order to give all your
stakeholders good information that goes
well beyond just a you know running ad
machine or a spreadsheet skill and and
again those are the things that that I
think make the make the career
profession just fascinating yeah yeah
but again you have to understand
everybody else's business absolutely
that's a that's a really it's a really
interesting uh way to look at it is is
the understanding the the vast
understanding that has to take place
even beyond the numbers because you have
to not only be able to understand
everybody else's business you have to
intake their numbers then you have to be
able to put those numbers back out in a
way that everybody else understands and
it's I I agree I think that you know
accounting does kind of get a bad rep
for being you know this this percept
ction of something that it's that it's
not there is so much more to it than
than just you know adding up numbers so
let's let's shift gears a little bit now
let's talk about CMA so now we talked
about the CPA we know a little bit about
what that is what is a CMA and what
makes that different than a CPA okay so
so CPA as we talked about is very
strictly accounting um focused financial
statements CMA is this interesting
hybrid uh there's two parts of the exam
one part is
uh accounting focused but interestingly
enough on on a cost accounting basis as
opposed to financial basis so so the
difference between the CMA and CPA CPA
is looking at financial statements you
know how how do we arrange them properly
how do we disclose the information
properly CMA is a little bit more
Analytical in in the sense of okay do do
we uh buy this big piece of equipment um
to uh automate uh be more efficient in
producing uh a certain product uh or in
some cases some services that we provide
so it's internal based and that's that's
one part of the CMA exam the other is
actually tied to finance so this is why
it's a hybrid um type of uh credential
and the finance part is you know what's
our cost of capital how much is it going
to cost to make this you know bring this
machine in so so CMA and CPA
interestingly enough don't overlap a
whole lot with each other which which I
would argue which I would argue is what
makes somebody who's a CPA and a CMA
right uh a little bit more powerful
interesting it it that's it is
interesting because again from the from
the outsider perspective those two
things almost sound very similar they
they do so so why do you see that those
two things sit in different worlds in in
the way of a business how a business
operates well because because they
attack two different parts of business
bus problems for businesses um again
you're looking at the outside world
that's the that's the CPA route internal
decision-making is that CMA route and
and I I guess there you could create an
exam that encompasses all of it but that
would be an awful lot of territory to
cover which which again though speaks to
accounting is not that dull it's not
it's it's it's not the same doing the
same repetitive task every day the the
number of business decisions the amount
of people that get impacted by all this
um world of accounting is prettyy Broad
and that's why you have two different
designations to cover two different
skill sets interesting that it is it's
that's absolutely fascinating so you
touched a little bit about the
educational requirements of each uh tell
me tell me specifically if you're a CPA
what is your degree requirement as a CPA
so so as a CPA at at some point in time
before you become a CPA you have to have
150 total uh credit hours um of of
education and that's uh that's something
that has changed since uh back in the
Stone Age when I got it was like 126
hours or something like that but um so
you have to have a formal education
there's a certain number of specific
accounting classes that you have to take
as a
prerequisite um and and as I said before
you have to have some work experience
before you can actually um uh become a
certified public accountant okay so you
actually have to have some real
experience Beyond even just your college
degree correct it's it's not a
credential that you could be in your
last year of college take the exam and
then automatically become a CPA
interesting so how how much uh work
experience do you have to have they
they've modifi the rules uh back in my
day it was uh two years of work
experience oh so it's not even just like
a it's not even like oh you just go and
get a job and then you say you have a
job no no what has changed is you don't
necessarily have to be in public
accounting uh that's the biggest change
that has happened since then so you have
two years of of work experience that
covers um um you know resp
responsibilities and and uh uh duties
that are tied to to uh the public
accounting aspect of accounting uh but
as I said before the CPA exam once so
you evidence yourself in terms of
technical skills but you also have to uh
evidence that you have some job
experience but but again you have that
CPA uh attached to your name it it will
open up doors yeah it's it's it gathers
Instant Respect In in the uh in the
business World interesting so now on the
CMA side what does that look like from a
degree standpoint uh from a degree
standpoint a little bit easier uh if if
if you uh if you have a a degree um a
business degree and you pass the exam
you can be a CMA so from from that
standpoint it's not quite as um as uh
demanding in terms of checking all the
boxes but but I would argue uh
nonetheless it's uh it's another one one
of those credentials that will gain you
Instant Respect In in a in a business
boardroom yeah and and what's the when
you look at the two exams CPA exam CMA
exam what's the comparison uh well
they're both challenging but but but but
the CPA is generally held out as as the
gold standard credential it's a it's a
very challenging exam okay okay so
moving on beyond that now let's go into
what is a what is the career
opportunities look like so we're we're a
CPA we've now passed the exam what does
that career opportunity look like from
there okay well I can certainly speak
from my from my own experience so I uh I
worked for uh between four and five
years out in uh public accounting with
at the time was Coopers in libr is now
price waterhous Coopers uh but but that
was an outstanding work education on top
of the degree and and and one of the
wonderful things about that career uh
was the fact that it was almost like a
graduate degree in a sense you you you
earned a salary which was good uh pay
those bills but you would move from job
to job so you'd be switching locality of
and and and U client you know basically
about every month month and a half so
what you're doing is you're getting to
see a lot of different modes of business
and getting snapshots so over the course
of four years my responsibilities moved
up from from introductory to supervisory
um um I think in my fourth year I was
running uh this is something about CP
the the world of public accounting and
CPAs at the time I was uh what 25 years
old and I was running the first ever
public accounting uh audit of mome
County and I think I had 25 to 30 people
working for me at four different
locations in mome County over the course
of a summer it again if you're looking
for job responsibilities for fast
tracking uh showing off what you can and
can't do public county is a great
opportunity for that and certainly
worked for me so so what happened after
that is I uh I went into a private
sector and and my starting um real
estate was actually with the toin
company I was an assistant controller
there and then worked my way up to a
controller and um eventually worked for
the largest
uh uh industrial commercial real estate
uh development company in Michigan as
their CFO at h31 so
so I'm I'm sure my my story isn't the
same as everybody else's story I I know
people who've done far bigger you're in
more important roles than than I have
but but what I will say is public
accounting was a
tremendous um window through which to
get a good career path going and and I
was able to to uh enjoy a lot of uh uh
responsibilities at an early age of my
career and and um I I my CPA and and
work starting in public accounting was
was uh the reason why I could uh enjoy
that early in my career interesting
interesting so so now let's look at the
CMA so what is a what's career
opportunities look like in the CMA side
the the CMA tends to be more prized in
um uh the private sector so it'll be
large um both product and Service
Company so you know especially here in
in the Michigan area you see the
automotive industry you see a lot of the
uh uh tier one two three suppliers uh
are big in it you you'll see uh um
service companies now increasingly need
to have the services of a of a certified
manager account because again you're
you're trying to understand your you
have these resources at these very large
uh companies do you have too many
resources do you have too few resources
that's that's that's part of the
decision roles that the CMAs are
integrally uh uh tied into and so it's a
it's a huge part of the decision process
in these large companies so it sounds
like a CMA is working very closely with
all the different teams within a larger
organization oh absolutely and really
doing a deep dive into necessity versus
you know
resources but but again a lot of the
same attributes so so so think about
from this standpoint they have to be
going out to to the different
disciplines within a company the
engineering folks the sales folks uh the
product development folks uh the back
office they have to they have to
interface with uh a number of uh
different areas of the company they have
to be able to synthesize all this
information coming from disperate
sources and try to make sense out of it
and then report it up to to to
management make recommendations the the
the great thing about the CMA is
basically everybody's staring at a CMA
saying okay here's the data what's your
recommendation and and so you
see in the ranks of corporate America
CFOs Chief accounting officers uh
treasurers a very good chunk of these
people have either a CPA or CMA attached
to their names H so all right so I'm
going to I'm going to ask you one more
question on this because it is becoming
very fascinating to me to think about
what that looks like to talk to as a as
a CPA or as a CMA either way and you
have all the information you've brought
in all the data and you've done your
analysis on what the proper thing is to
do and maybe this Falls more into the
CMA category it sounds like now and you
have to make those decisions but now you
have to make those decisions and
communicate them to people who don't
understand the numbers to the extent
that you do what is your what would be
your advice to somebody that let's say
just got into their career and they're
in a position now where they've done the
analysis but they got to go and talk to
let's say even the even the marketer
right so I I got I can see from the data
that I need to shift my we need to shift
as a company into this different
audience we're talking to how do you as
somebody who knows this information
because the data shows it come talk to
me somebody who doesn't understand any
of that piece of it but I can help I can
help make sure it happens well that
that's a great segue Jay because that's
why I'm here as a as a faculty member at
Walsh college that to some degree
whatever proclivity I have towards
teaching was developed during my time in
Industry because you're absolutely
right it's hard for people to realize
this sometimes but but if you're in
accounting you're actually a salesperson
too be be and here's why you're AR
selling Insurance you're selling a
product but you are selling ideas and
and so one of the things that is really
critical and this is you know this is
where I think that if you can have
faculty that bring War Stories and
extell experience to the classroom
that's beneficial but you can have the
greatest idea in the world but if you
can't communicate effectively with other
people it it could be dead on arrival
and you know this is where hopefully you
get good mentoring over the course of
your career and education be because
you can have the right idea but if you
don't lay it out and teach your audience
as to why your idea makes sense and that
that it's not just selling your idea but
it's also looking at okay the logic
here's some logical Alternatives that
people may be thinking about these are
why these alternatives are not the
optimal way to go and you have to be
able to to effectively sell that and and
that's this this is the critical
thinking
part it's it's a talent
that is not a given out in the
marketplace right now so if you can get
a good education if you can get some
good mentoring that's the gateway to
being very valuable value add to your
employer because if you can do these
things right that's uh that yeah and it
is and I I hadn't thought about that but
you're absolutely right I think that if
you are the person that holds the
information it is also on you to make
sure everybody else understands why a
direction is being turned yes and that's
a it's that's a really interesting way
for you to put that and I do think it's
important to to point out like that is
why the War Stories have to exist in the
classroom because you have to go beyond
what does this definition mean great I
may understand exactly what that
definition means but if I can't go into
work and say now I'm going to put this
thing into practice and it's pointless I
don't need to know that thing no I I'll
I'll tell the story this this go back
maybe go back 10 years ago but I did
have in the undergraduate program here
we we have a common Finance course so
all you can't escape Walsh College
without taking a finance course but I
had a student she was she was a great
student she was a marketing major and uh
she ended up going into marketing but I
actually tried to to talk her into to um
uh going into finance and my argument
was this I lost it so maybe I'm not as
effective a communicator as I as Market
us marketers have the most fun that's
just that's you can't compete with that
but but but my point to her was you're
really good at numbers and you are a
market you're a marketing person that's
that was clear as day
my pitch to her at the time was you have
no clue as to how many people uh how
small the population is there is a
people who can really Market well and
are comfortable with numbers if you can
do both I know you can have a great
career in marketing too but I would
argue you can have a great career in
accounting and finance as well yeah we
had a uh last week we had we interviewed
one of our alumni and that that video
will be coming out here soon because it
was a really fascinating one and he did
that he he's has a CPA and he was
talking about but he is the most
charismatic person I think I've ever met
and he was talking about how he grew up
in sports and he was he went to college
for baseball and he was that's what he
did and he joked then he's like look I'm
not the I'm not your standard accountant
person my personality is not that but
because of this personality I have
gotten opportunities I wouldn't have
gotten otherwise and it sounds like it's
exactly what you're talking about
absolutely in fact the accounting
profession needs more people who are
comfortable in in a crowded room and
comfortable uh educating people about
things that's that's a and again but
this is the great opportunity because
technology now does all that you know
for lack of BW all that grunt work for
us that's why these skills are ever more
important today and actually I think
accounting is a more rewarding career
today than it was 20 30 40 years ago
that's an interesting perspective I I I
think that this kind of goes back I know
we've called this out a couple times now
but this kind of goes back to the idea
that the perception of accounting is
different than the reality of accounting
because I think a lot of people would
see would go by what historically has
been known as accounting of like I'm
going to go sit in this room I'm going
to punch in some numbers on calculator
and be done but what we're talking about
today is that's not the case that's that
if you are somebody that has that
personality that an accounting career
very much is what you make it and if you
come in with that personality where
you're like I want to be the I want to
be the face of this you're the you're
the face of it because and that and the
competition is pretty low at that point
if you're also that person it's that's
an interesting one one more thing I want
to touch on before we before we dive
into our last section here is let's talk
about some salary ranges because I it
sounds like I mean these people
hopefully in accounting and and in
finance are people that are being uh
seen and treated with the skill set that
they have because it is vastly important
for a company to have these people in
place in order to be able to do anything
with money so let's talk about what is
the salary range when we look at a CPA
and then what is the salary range when
we look at a CMA well CPAs will
typically make uh uh more money than
than CMAs
um you know early career public
accounting firms right now are paying
pretty good money they're paying um you
know U towards the the upper five
figures uh to hire people if if you
become a CFO for a for a reasonably
well-sized uh company you're going to
make some very good money uh you're
going to be making you know depending on
the size of the company and the
responsibilities you can you you'll be
making six figures somewhere but but but
for the large companies you know if you
get into the really big uh companies you
could be making seven figures um so so
so definitely great career opportunities
uh CMAs um I just had a former graduate
here uh take a job and it was uh very
high FES low six figure um um salary
that you know they've been in there for
for five six years so still early so so
these you you could you can make a
career out of it and live very very
comfortably yeah and what's the um on so
let's go talk about the CMA side same
same thing roughly well so so CMAs can
become controllers can become Chief
Financial officers so yeah that that
gateways that Gateway is open as well
the the high the executive roles in
accounting and finance there's more CPAs
than CMAs but there are CMAs there there
as well and and I think you know when
you talk about career
path I think this is especially
important in today's
world um it's okay how much money can I
make in live cth world the I'll check
the box in this in this in this uh
profession you can make good money in
fact the the salaries are ra Rising
fairly quickly because of the shortage
of good talent um so
that's issue one but issue two is
quality of life and there were again
this is part of the horror stories of
accounting because in public accounting
when I first got involved you'd you'd be
working 80 90 hour work weeks that's not
the case anymore um I I think the
profession has has come to the
realization you can't work people that
hard and and expect them to stay right
right you can't burn burn the candle at
both ends and then a little in the
middle too exactly so so you know I
think that you can make good good money
but you can also have a good work life
balance in in the fields today um do you
get busy around uh the year end reports
in tax season yes right uh but I know an
awful lot of accountants uh who've been
the profession for a long time who have
really good golf games um and great
vacation homes and great vacation homes
and including a boat they use in the
fall um so you know if you're looking
for that work life balance if you're
looking for a profession that demands
critical skills but also all the soft
skills as well and you have you know an
aptitude towards quantitative uh uh
things it's a it's treated me well I can
only recommend it to others yeah so now
we're going to talk about my favorite
part of this why Walsh why should
somebody who's looking to be either a
CPA or a CMA why Walsh what makes what
makes Walsh different than the next guy
so so this is the interesting story I'll
give a personal story and then I'll give
the love it so so so my personal story
uh you know I talked about my my
progression through public accounting I
became a CFO at at age 31 and and back
then the requirements were for the exam
I'd taken only six undergraduate credit
hours in finance so all of a sudden I I
I I I'm working for this company that's
that's pretty
large I can account all day long I was
short in finance and you know my
undergrad was from the University of
Notre Dame you know okay school um um
you know I'd come through and I I had my
CPA but uh somebody tapped me on the
shoulder so I'm 31 it's like I better
Bown up on finance somebody tapped me on
the shoulder and said you you want to
check out wasal
College
um with all due respect to University of
not Dame with all due respect to Wayne
State University where I got my
doctorate the most valuable degree I got
in my entire career was the master's
degree in finance that I got at Walsh
College because the faculty had real
life experience and so so I was you I
was in a new role I I had to learn new
things very fast and I had to know I was
in a position of responsibility so I had
to know what could possibly go wrong um
before before I experienced it I wanted
to know about it and the faculty to a
person were able to really step up my
game because they they they taught the
theory but they also taught the actual
practice of business and and you know
that's a tradition that was at Walsh a
long time ago it's the tradition that
still is alive and well today at Walsh
and you know I talk about Finance but we
actually we actually made our name on
accounting um you know mvin Walsh uh we
we we we have a long and story tradition
in in the accounting space and founded
founded by Thomas Edison's account yes I
love it um so
so I think that what I experienced many
many years ago here at Walsh college is
the same thing that goes on today I see
it from from from the other side of the
table but again every faculty member in
that
classroom understands the technical side
of the
trade very very well they're highly
qualified but more
importantly they bring the real world to
the classroom and I think that's that's
invaluable experience today that that
higher education for the most part
misses out on and so if you really want
to know how to do it
right I'd come to Walsh College I like
it I like it and I think that uh you
know that that brings true in a lot of
in in really all of our degree programs
to your point The Faculty are coming in
with real world experience it makes a
world a difference when we can actually
sit down in a classroom and know that
that time I'm spending that night
learning whatever that lecture or that
conversation is because it's hard to
even call them lectures and I think that
that's the part that comes in is it's
not traditional lecture it's
conversation about what does this mean
here's here's how I describe Walsh
faculty of people that I talk to book
smart and street smart and and and
that's a unique characteristic yeah it
it has been interesting to me to do more
of these interviews and I sit down with
a lot of our alumni and we have a lot of
these conversations and the thing that
continues to come up is I loved that our
faculty told me to close the book as
we're going to talk about what it's
actually like and I and it's and I every
time they do it I'm like I it's almost
like I gave them a script and I'm like
here you go but it's because they
genuinely feel the strength of the
education that they received here and
during their time here Y and uh and so
from all of us all of us that have gone
through your classes in the past and now
I get to sit here and actually interview
you and I get to be faculty here on my
on my own thank you because you have
been here for at Walsh for a long time
and you've had that same mentality
through it all of we're not just
preparing you to pass that exam we're
preparing you for your career and to
make sure that you are doing everything
that you can do to be the best version
of yourself W has been around for over
100 years now and I think that that's
the one you we talk about continuity and
change Technology's changing the
continuity of of the Walsh approach to
teaching uh has has remained the same
for a long period of time and I think
it's a valuable um uh element for all of
our graduates uh to be part of that
educational experience yes well thank
you thank you John not only just for for
all of your teaching but everything that
you do uh here at Walsh and then also
sitting here with us today my pleasure
thank
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you
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