Scan-to-BIM Panel Discussion (full version)

Summary

本视频讨论了建筑信息模型（BIM）与激光扫描技术的结合，即Scan to BIM。专家们探讨了这一技术在建筑资产管理行业的应用，包括其在项目中的需求增长、工作流程、数据处理挑战以及未来发展潜力。他们强调了自动化和云计算在提高数据处理效率方面的重要性，并预测了新技术如增强现实（AR）和5G在建筑行业中的潜在应用。

Takeaways

• 🌟 扫描到BIM（Building Information Modeling）是利用激光扫描技术获取环境三维数据，并将其转换为建筑信息模型的过程。
• 🚀 激光扫描技术在过去10年中发展迅速，尤其是在过去的5年里，但行业仍有很大的提升空间。
• 🏢 建筑公司越来越多地使用激光扫描技术，尤其是在翻新、保护和修复项目中。
• 📈 激光扫描技术在建筑生命周期管理中扮演着重要角色，尤其是在现场验证和施工过程中。
• 🔄 激光扫描数据的转换和处理是一个复杂且耗时的过程，需要优化以提高效率。
• 💡 BIM软件开发商正在寻求创建更强大的工具，以实现更快、更准确的扫描到BIM转换。
• 🔧 激光扫描技术在建筑和施工行业中的普及受到成本和技术门槛的限制。
• 🌐 未来，激光扫描数据可能会通过云服务和移动设备进行消费，提高现场操作和设施管理的效率。
• 🤖 自动化和人工智能技术的发展可能会进一步简化激光扫描数据的捕获、注册和分析过程。
• 🔍 激光扫描技术在建筑行业的未来发展可能会涉及到更广泛的应用，如应急响应和城市诊断。

Q & A

扫描到BIM的流程中，目前面临的最大挑战是什么？

目前扫描到BIM流程中面临的最大挑战包括处理大量点云数据时的硬件限制、数据集过大导致的不易消化问题，以及将点云数据转换为BIM模型的时间和成本。

自动化在3D扫描中扮演什么角色？

自动化在3D扫描中有助于优化数据的捕获和处理过程，例如使用自动化算法过滤掉无关的扫描信息，提高数据处理的效率。

目前有哪些技术可以帮助提高扫描到BIM转换的效率？

目前的技术包括使用更先进的激光扫描设备、自动化软件进行点云数据处理和转换，以及云计算服务来优化数据存储和访问。

在扫描到BIM的流程中，如何确保数据的准确性和可用性？

确保数据准确性和可用性需要通过专业的扫描设备、精确的数据处理软件，以及对数据进行定期的校验和更新。

扫描到BIM技术在建筑生命周期管理中的应用有哪些？

扫描到BIM技术在建筑生命周期管理中可以用于捕捉现有建筑条件、进行现场验证、以及作为设施管理的一部分，帮助业主和管理者更好地理解和维护建筑。

扫描到BIM技术对于建筑项目的成本和时间有什么影响？

扫描到BIM技术可能会增加项目的成本和时间，因为它需要额外的设备、软件和专业人员来处理扫描数据。然而，长期来看，它可以通过提高施工精确度和效率来节省成本。

目前有哪些行业组织在推动扫描到BIM技术的发展？

开放设计联盟（Open Design Alliance）是一个推动扫描到BIM技术发展的行业组织，他们提供核心工具和技术，以促进行业间的信息交流和协作。

扫描到BIM技术在未来有哪些潜在的应用场景？

未来扫描到BIM技术可能应用于增强现实（AR）、虚拟现实（VR）、数字孪生、实时城市诊断、以及紧急响应等多种场景。

如何提高扫描到BIM技术的普及率和接受度？

提高扫描到BIM技术的普及率和接受度需要降低技术的入门门槛，提供更多的教育和培训资源，以及开发更高效、易于使用的工具和平台。

扫描到BIM技术在建筑行业中的发展趋势是什么？

扫描到BIM技术在建筑行业的发展趋势是向着更加自动化、智能化和云端化的方向发展，以提高数据处理的效率和可用性。

Outlines

00:00

🎤 开场与自我介绍

视频脚本的开头介绍了主持人Jeffrey Olette，他是一位开放建筑信息模型（BIM）顾问，代表开放设计联盟主持关于扫描到BIM的行业视角讨论。他感谢所有参与讨论的专家，并邀请他们依次介绍自己，包括姓名、职位和所在公司。

05:00

🏗️ 扫描到BIM的应用现状

讨论小组成员分享了他们在各自公司中使用扫描到BIM的频率，以及与五年前相比的变化趋势。他们普遍认为，随着时间的推移，使用扫描到BIM的项目数量有所增加，并且预计未来这一趋势将继续。讨论中提到了扫描技术在翻新、改造项目中的价值，以及如何通过激光扫描获取现有条件的精确信息。

10:01

🤖 扫描过程与第三方服务

小组成员讨论了他们的公司是如何进行激光扫描的，包括是否使用自己的设备、是否外包给第三方，以及如何处理扫描数据。他们提到了在不同项目中采用的不同方法，包括自己创建模型和依赖第三方服务。此外，还讨论了自动化在3D扫描中的作用，以及如何优化数据以适应不同的硬件和系统。

15:03

🌐 点云数据的挑战与机遇

讨论集中在如何处理和利用从激光扫描中获得的大量点云数据。小组成员提到了数据集的规模和复杂性，以及如何将其转换为可用的BIM模型。他们强调了自动化和人工智能在未来简化这一过程中的潜力，以及如何使这些数据在设计、施工和设施管理中更加易于访问和使用。

20:03

🔍 未来展望与技术发展

小组成员对未来扫描到BIM技术的发展进行了展望，包括如何利用增强现实（AR）和虚拟现实（VR）技术来展示和分析扫描数据。他们讨论了将扫描数据上传到云端的潜力，以及如何通过移动设备和智能眼镜等设备来访问和操作这些数据。此外，还探讨了如何通过自动化和人工智能来提高数据处理的效率。

25:04

📈 行业合作与标准化

讨论的最后部分集中在如何通过行业合作来解决扫描到BIM过程中的挑战，以及如何开发通用格式来标准化点云数据。小组成员强调了开放设计联盟（ODA）在提供核心工具和平台方面的作用，以及如何通过集体努力来填补现有技术之间的差距。

Keywords

💡激光扫描

激光扫描是一种利用激光技术获取物体形状的技术，通过激光束照射物体表面并捕捉反射回来的光线，从而生成物体的三维数据。在视频中，激光扫描被用于建筑信息模型（BIM）的创建，通过扫描现有建筑获取精确的三维数据，以便进行后续的设计、改造或维护工作。

💡BIM

BIM（Building Information Modeling，建筑信息模型）是一种数字化工具，用于表示和管理建筑和基础设施项目的物理和功能特性。BIM集成了多维信息，包括3D几何模型、材料属性、构件信息等，以支持项目的设计、施工和运营决策。

💡点云数据

点云数据是由大量三维点组成的数据集，每个点包含空间位置信息，通常由激光扫描仪或其他3D扫描设备生成。点云数据可以精确地描述物体的外形和周围环境，是创建BIM模型的基础。

💡建筑生命周期管理

建筑生命周期管理是指对建筑物从规划、设计、施工到使用、维护、改造直至拆除的整个生命周期进行管理和优化的过程。这涉及到建筑的性能、成本、可持续性以及对环境的影响等多个方面。

💡自动化

自动化是指利用技术设备或系统在没有人或很少人的直接干预下执行工作的过程。在建筑行业中，自动化可以应用于数据采集、模型创建、施工监控等多个环节，以提高效率和准确性。

💡云计算

云计算是一种通过互联网提供计算资源和服务的模式，允许用户按需访问和使用存储、处理能力和各种应用服务。在建筑行业中，云计算可以用于存储和处理大量的BIM数据和点云数据，支持远程访问和协作。

💡增强现实

增强现实（AR）是一种技术，它通过在用户的视野中叠加计算机生成的图像和信息，来增强现实世界的感知。在建筑行业中，AR可以用于将BIM模型和激光扫描数据叠加到实际环境中，以辅助设计评审、施工指导和设施管理。

💡数字孪生

数字孪生是指创建一个物理实体的虚拟副本，以模拟和分析其实体的行为和性能。在建筑行业中，数字孪生可以是建筑物的精确数字模型，它能够反映建筑物的当前状态，并用于模拟未来的变更或维护活动。

💡5G技术

5G技术是第五代移动通信技术，它提供了比4G更快的数据传输速度、更低的延迟和更高的连接密度。在建筑行业中，5G可以支持实时数据传输和远程监控，为自动化施工、远程协作和即时决策提供技术支持。

💡人工智能

人工智能（AI）是指使计算机系统模拟人类智能行为的技术，包括学习、推理、自我修正和理解语言等能力。在建筑行业中，AI可以用于自动化设计、施工监控、数据分析和预测维护等领域，提高效率和准确性。

Highlights

Jeffrey Olette 主持了一个关于 Scan to BIM 的行业讨论小组。

讨论小组成员分享了他们在建筑信息模型（BIM）中使用激光扫描的经验。

Andrew Fox 讨论了他们公司在翻新和修复项目中使用扫描到 BIM 的增加需求。

Dan Smilow 强调了业主对激光扫描的需求以及在改造项目中的巨大价值。

Jim 讨论了他们在航空项目中使用点云技术的经验和挑战。

Hector Camps 从建筑生命周期的角度探讨了扫描的原因和价值。

Gustavo Pardo 讨论了在大型项目中获取现有条件的重要性和挑战。

讨论小组成员分享了他们使用激光扫描的频率与五年前相比的变化。

小组成员讨论了激光扫描技术的未来，包括与增强现实（AR）的结合。

讨论了激光扫描数据的准确性和在不同规模项目中的应用。

小组成员探讨了自动化在3D扫描过程中的作用和潜在发展。

讨论了如何将激光扫描数据转换为 BIM 模型的不同方法和挑战。

小组成员讨论了 Open Design Alliance（ODA）如何帮助开发更强大的工具来支持 Scan to BIM 转换。

讨论了激光扫描技术在建筑行业中的普及和未来趋势。

小组成员分享了他们对激光扫描技术未来发展的看法，包括与5G和自动驾驶车辆的结合。

讨论了激光扫描数据的云存储和远程访问的潜力。

小组成员讨论了如何简化激光扫描到 BIM 模型转换的流程。

讨论了激光扫描技术在建筑行业中的挑战，包括成本和数据处理。

Transcripts

[Music]

okay hello everyone my name is jeffrey

olette and i'm an open bim consultant

for the built asset industry

i'm here today to host the industry

perspectives on scan to bim panel uh

discussion on behalf of the open design

alliance i want to thank all of our

panelists for joining us today and

before we start this discussion i'd just

like to go around the group and have

everyone introduce themselves basically

with your name your title and and your

company so i'm start you off andrew sure

so i'm andrew fox sketch partners um

architected catch partners been here

about eight years now

great dan uh dan smilow director of

process innovation at the walsh group

jim

manager with pencil phelps for about

nine years now great hector

hector camps here fight cube i

specialize in building life cycle

management and gustavo

hi my name is gustavo pardo i'm the

design technology manager for perkins

systems architects

great again thank you gentlemen for

being here so we're here to talk about

this idea of scan to bim where the the

results of a lidar scan you know the use

of laser imaging to scan the environment

three dimensions

and generate a data set also known as a

point cloud

it's then converted into building

information model geometry and

usually it's some kind of proprietary

platform format like an autodesk revit

or a bentley systems microstation file

as examples but

um oda has seen the growing demand for

such a workflow and and you know that's

what we're really here to talk to you

all about is

finding out what those workflows are

your experiences in them what you um

what you think you need what you'd like

to see happen in the industry

and and they're really interested in

helping the the bim software developers

create more powerful tools so they can

enable faster and more accurate scan to

bim conversions

um you know as i said i think you know

there's already software out there we've

seen this sort of come about especially

in the last uh 10 years we've seen a

rapid development in maturing in the

last five

but it still seems like we're not there

yet and um so i'd like to really you

know start this conversation giving an

overview of sort of where scanda bim

usage is now so

my first question is really

you know looking at your practices in

general

how often is your company seeing

projects where there is a need to create

models from these scans and the point

cloud data and

and think about this in three ways where

how does this frequency compare to five

years ago and do you think it's going to

increase in the future

so let's kick this off with andrew

sure yeah so um

within our office i've worked on

probably 10 of these projects now that

have done use some form of scanning

converting into something whether it's

gone into bim with probably about half

of them some of the early ones were

scanned to flat cad drawings

and there's been a couple projects where

we've just received the point cloud and

it hasn't really gone beyond that

uh

i would say that

so

um within our our firm the section that

i'm working on is largely renovations

and preservation and restoration

projects

um

there is definitely an increase in

demand for the use of this it's to the

point that basically every project now

in the last couple years has had some

form of scanning whether it's

to um

scan to bim

the last project was a substation in the

basement uh

with complex floor and ceiling and wall

conditions

and maybe at its largest scale we

scanned an entire um auditorium space

uh six floors and um and for a

uh for many future projects but for the

first was for a seating project where we

really needed to have a great

understanding of this curving bowl of

seeding that then needed to be modified

for for ada upgrades and

all the slopes needed to be very precise

so

to answer your questions um

there's there's definitely demand and i

think it is as long as we continue to do

renovation projects it will definitely

be an increased demand too

great oh dan

yeah i

agree 100 with andrew you know majority

of the time that we're leveraging this

technology there's kind of

three reasons one the owner's driving

that they they require it in some form

of specification and we're providing

that whether that's a as built turnover

or something along keeping up with as

built throughout the the building cycle

of the project but where we see the

greatest value is in those retrofits

those renovations um

walsh has three different verticals it's

our building group civil group and our

water group and

water time and time again when you're

massive upgrades how are you

retrofitting this existing facility with

new pipings new filtration systems new

processes so

really having a granular view on how

this is going to integrate into the

current process and procedures is very

difficult and you know can go out there

and take a tape measure and measure it

but you know that really doesn't provide

great hindsight when you're throwing

these models together

as well as how you're going to get this

information or this equipment into these

spaces um other places that we're seeing

in distribution centers everyone's kind

of

trying to retool themselves or upgrade

their distribution centers that are

already packed full of distribution

equipment so how can you get the best

fit or best space layout in that and

laser scanning has been great in that

aspect okay

jim

yeah for us it's it's very similar um

we've

deployed point cloud technology for last

decade

via either laser scanning directly or

um increasingly with with drones to

capture the larger type sites and

i would agree that um that this process

it's it takes a lot of time so really

going into the project it's it's that

understanding

typically it depends on our trade

partners

whether or not they have that capability

to deal with the put cloud directly or

if

we need to execute that that conversion

to a bim model

we see it a lot in our aviation airport

projects large spaces where

we're getting a lot of benefit from that

your your laser scanning can capture

above ceiling content which is extremely

valuable during coordination

and then just the ability to to convert

that to a 3d we typically shoot for

revit or

autodesk based programs but it's

definitely dependent on

on the owner but the ability to work

in that environment as opposed to

how heavy these point clouds are

it's definitely an advantage that we

have

and it's something that also feeds a lot

of the other technologies such as

augmented reality devices with the

hololens those

run

quite well with a very light model

that's been optimized

and so it's it's just that mix where we

see the opportunity we'll we'll

definitely go for that

and it also just depends on on the

project team okay

hector

yeah and so these are all really good

responses

i tend to look at it from the building

life cycle perspective so i always like

to start with why

why do people want to do the scan in the

front end the design construction

process you have the as built condition

so a lot of the

front end laser scanning work that we've

done in the past has has been around

capturing the ass built condition uh for

example we did mammy international

airport which had an extremely large

footprint you know it's an airport of

course

and it was built

where nobody really trusts the as-built

documents because they go i need 10 20

30 generations you know they're like

you know

you got you want the 1975 version or you

want the 1982 or do you want the 1994

and they recommend you look at all of

them because they all have different

pieces of information on them but none

of them have the truth

so

because you can't trust the as built

documents that we're inheriting from

the history of that building

and people want the confidence to truly

know what's out there

we've been scanning to document the as

built condition

another interesting reason why we've

been scanning

you know of course you can take the

professionals and bring them to the

field but it's much more interesting to

bring the feel to the professional

especially when you have remote

distributed teams that could be anywhere

in the world uh the people who are for

example in this case

that were working on the um

baggage handling system for mia

they were out of michigan

so they couldn't really fly to michigan

all the time to see what's actually out

there so this was a very effective way

to bring the airport to the team

that was off-site and remote and needed

remote access to see what's actually out

there so that's uh that's part of the

reason we've been doing this

the second reason we do this is to do

field verification so

we can really get involved with

constructing from the model we try to

drive a construction driven process from

the model

and we built you know there's bim and

then you also have vdc right virtual

design construction which gets into more

of the construction fabrication side of

the world of bim

and since we're driving construction

from the model

we need a high fidelity model we need

confidence we need fit form we need to

make sure that those structures those

baggage handling systems whatever they

happen to be are actually going to fit

correctly the first time and we rely on

the model to be able to perform that and

be able to do that

gustavo

well actor

you make my outline difficult you really

outline everything

in such a great way so for for us in

parkinses man you know we're large firms

we have large projects um

existing conditions are fundamental we

we really need to get existing

conditions uh there is not enough

interns to go to a place and you know

and and measure

and um and i would say

we probably can divide this thing in

three areas one is coordination you can

say efficiency that goes with

productivity and then precision so

if we're talking about

an airport or if we're talking about a

feed out

it's the same you know we need that

precision uh another thing that hector

mentioned that that i think is

fundamental here

on critical is that so many times we go

to a place we get the drawings you will

get the really old autocad drawing so

you really get the all uh bean model and

as soon as you go to the side you're

like whoa

what happened with that window or what

is that wall and and if we think about

going back to that efficiency and

productivity pocket

by the time that your team goes back to

this to their place or by the time that

you have your first condemnation

uh call and you realize that the wall or

the window is not there you probably pay

for half of that uh 3d scan so if we

think about that you know in that call

you're going to have probably

10

high-profile employees that does a lot

of money plastic time

um something for us that that is

important is the scale and we have some

projects that

we have towers that we want to retrofit

we're definitely going to do that but

there is also a niche in in a a practice

area that we call workplace

and and there is so many smaller spaces

and uh and we see the drones as gene

mentioned uh we see the point clouds we

see all type of 3ds kind but there is no

um a tool that help

that small ditch when you have to 3d

scan something you don't want to send

your team there

but you need to capture the space so

there is a lot of opportunities in the

air in the

in the field we have seen increasingly

um i would say probably

a hundred percent of the projects that

we have that are existing conditions

they're doing 3d scans it is not you

know

it's a pretty easy decision it's a given

these days yep

yeah yeah okay excellent

so you've all mentioned the types of

projects that you use that that

typically are doing scanda bim

um

maybe you can uh help also describe what

is your process i mean are you

are you going out and doing the laser

scanning yourself with your own units

are you hiring somebody third party to

do it are you then getting the point

cloud data and and translating that

yourself or is that also a third party

service

what you know what kind of things are

you relying on i'm going to skip over to

dan

yeah so

probably every variation and then some

of what you just mentioned um depending

on the complexity of the project

the availability of our scanners you

know that's that's always a

difficult thing to approach we have

multiple scanners within our

organization but

um you know we have a retrofit project

comes up you know that's that's just

like a full-time fte that's sitting

there and that's being leveraged on that

project

one of the banes of our existence is

when we hear we need to perform laser

scanning on that project and the first

question that comes to mind are we

creating the model oh no the architect's

creating the model no problem we'll go

scan that that's we're completely fine

with scanning that project because

that's the easy part scanning and

registering those points no problem uh

the complexity of really developing that

model that's time consuming and

unfortunately these days in the industry

it's you're closing up one project

starting up another project

simultaneously and bidding a project in

between the two of those so um it's very

difficult to kind of stop do all those

iterations and go through it we will we

have and we've done that before where

we're scanning and we're creating those

models um traditionally we're hoping

that the architect is part of their

scope or um we will bring on um

third-party

consultants or contractors in that we

have trusted relationships with and

they'll create that that model from

those scans as well so

we probably use every variation of it

and you know we really determine

what's the best utilization and time of

this model knowing that this project is

going to be a very complex retrofit well

we should be all hands on deck on that

project if it's something that it's

going to be continuous scanning and it's

not necessarily for a model it's more

for as built we might have a third party

come out and do those scans every couple

weeks because

it's not kind of part of the build-out

workflow it's more of that close-out fm

deliverable at the end of the day great

how about you hector

well he i want to pick up where daniel

left off so that fm deliverables are

really interesting um

asset so

our customers are becoming savvier as

time goes by

and ownership is saying hey wait a

minute

we're really interested in this scan

beyond the construction

so

if we ever need to go back there we want

to see the scans we want to be able to

kind of see the bones of the building at

different milestones and we want to be

able to kind of turn back the wheels of

time and be able to see the building in

his different historical historical

points so i think this is a really um

a really big point a lot of people are

starting to associate data and

information with the point clouds as

well

so i think that's um

kind of an emerging thing that we're

starting a trend that we're kind of

paying attention to and we're seeing

that

uh

tracking the historical development of

the project through the scan is becoming

a a record document of source that

ownership is now starting to expect and

wants to associate with the model and

the documentation so we're seeing a lot

of that the other thing that we do

we do a lot of field verification um as

daniel also mentioned

when we have the construction schedule

we have milestones

and those milestones we generally look

at the schedule we try to figure out

when it would be a smart time to go out

there and do some field verification in

essence to make sure that the building

is going on track and they were getting

it built right the first time and to get

some foreshadowing of what's going to

happen if we continue this trend and

build out this way

we're doing this with the scan so we'll

you know the mep goes up there the

mechanical systems go up there we want

to scan they pour the decks we want to

scan so we're basically following the

construction schedule and scanning at

different milestones so are you doing

that with your own house equipment or

are you using a third party to do that

we

the

we lease our equipment from fireworks or

from a third party so we do our own

scanning and it and we've been um

i'm using more of the automation where

we're trying to use more of the auto

registration capabilities which cost us

cut some time for us

but if we if but if we're in a snag and

we have a very complex scan to put

together we may rely on a third party to

help us put the scans together or

basically what's called registration how

about you andrew

so from the architect's standpoint um

we've seen a couple different variations

we've never done our own scanning we're

usually contracting out it's either with

the general contractor

um or it is coming from an outsource

firm of some sort

and then from that point once we've done

the scan we have both modeled in-house

and we've also outsourced the model or

the general contractor has provided the

model from their scan it's our

preference not to do the um

to to

make the conversion ourselves because it

just isn't time and cost effective to do

it for us

uh but we've done it it's

it can be a couple week process for very

complex things if not a month-long

process for much more complex things um

so

so

and

as far as

recent projects as i said i've moved

into we've moved into this outsourcing

process there's a couple firms in the

city that we work with regularly now

uh who will do the scan

create the bim model we usually like to

see the scan and the bim model even

though the scan file is usually large

and sometimes overpowering for our our

network there's

there's a lot to be gained from be able

to overlay both them over each other as

we move into the project

and being able to see

you know what areas do we need more

detail

uh what areas you know they're not

always 100 accurate where where can we

catch really important places where the

scan and the model might vary even

because the building might vary a little

bit like it slopes from one side to the

other and it couldn't be accurately

gathered within a bim model

yeah so yeah

how about yugoslavia

um well again it depends on the scale um

if it's something that is is you know

small enough we just go out there and

just take some measurements uh most of

the we don't have the equipment and

everything that we do we outsource we

we're great designers we we build

beautiful buildings but

3d scanning is now an area that that we

that we want to expand our time

and uh the same thing that i do mention

you know for us is uh

it's better if we just get

the full model

um already in in beam and which is

important to our

into our models um something that that i

want to mention is that even when we get

the 3d scanner and this is a project we

have in new york we got a 3d scan from

the from the client

um

we do some some fuel uh measurements and

really quickly we realized that even the

3d scanning from the client was

different to existing conditions so i

think it's uh

there is a um

and i see this this is it should happen

in the future somehow facility

management the whole process of

us building those beautiful 3d models

having the information that hector was

mentioning that we seeing all these qr

codes in the rooms when you can start

seeing what is inside that room

but it should go farther you know it

should we should have we should find a

way to track how our buildings are uh

evolving through decades

yeah i think jim you mentioned a little

bit but are you doing this fully

in-house or are you kind of

as dan mentioned is you're utilizing

whatever you can whenever you can for

particular projects

the complexity of the process

so as far as

a laser scanning piece

that's pretty much done 100 in-house

laser scanning has become

a pretty important process to our

construction in general just for

these these renovation type spaces to

get an accurate as built but also

to check the quality of slab placements

and document all that during the

construction process but a big

a big point is it's something we've

toyed with as far as the the model

conversion

it's something that we used to

handle all of that in-house of the

software years ago has been developing

where there's

automatic feature extraction

but what we found is

particularly with piping type systems

the software will create those elements

but then you spend just as much time

seeing making sure everything fits

properly that

we weren't really seeing the the

efficiencies to make that process go and

that's that's kind of why we're here

talking about this the

industry's been chasing this magic

button where

point cloud

allows us to capture more data than

we've ever had on the construction

site and then with drones as well

but the ability to efficiently convert

that to a model is is something that

really holds a lot of people back

because not

not every

person on the site has a super computer

that can handle that point cloud

and so for us it's it's a mix just like

everyone else for for smaller type

efforts

we'll handle that conversion but for

massive

projects such as airport terminals or

baggage handling systems

we have a lot of third-party

partners that that we're comfortable

with using

um but even so that's that's

working with different groups and

getting that process dialed in between

uh between us and the partners we use so

when i do a little follow-up if you

don't mind so what would be the role of

automation in 3d scanning because we all

face the same challenge when we go and

we scan

we get a lot of information that

we probably don't need so for example um

i get a 3d scan i come with a bunch of

piping that has they're not really

relevant for the

let's say this copper work that we're

doing i wonder if in the future some

kind of algorithm is going to start

understanding

what is piping what is a wall you know

it should be something that starts

filtering those things we we have seen

some automation with you understand what

the what type of geometry is there and

say okay this could be a wall and it

and it throws a wall there but it should

be something that it would it moves

further i don't know where where the

technology is going to what direction is

going to go but for now i'm just looking

at the windows i

it is a window has transparency so it

will create a material

i don't know if anybody has any

experience to have seen any out there

that start moving towards that direction

i see some work being done with lidars

where

the lighter scan can tell what's a car

what's a building with a tree what's the

ground and you can filter out the lidar

scan well it can take out the vegetation

from the from the scan and just give you

the floor condition for example so i

would imagine in the near future we're

going to be able to see something

similar to what you're talking about

gustavo um with connecting it to

building objects

so

again i've seen that the larger scale

when we're talking about scans of cities

and and

you know what dams and this sort of

infrastructure

i haven't seen it all the way down to

the granular level of a building yet i

mean i have seen some experimentation

with it um

but it's it's sort of in the beta stages

what i've seen so far

so it sounds like everybody sort of

agrees that some of the biggest problems

that you face so far is a

you get a lot of information you get a

lot of data from these point clouds and

sometimes it's too much it's it's either

too much in that the data set is so

large it's unconsumable by hardware by

the systems that you have right or it's

just a lot of noise i mean there's a

hell of a lot of noise right and you

know in these scans they can vary their

their uh precision input to

10 is it 10 points within a square inch

or even smaller

um and can go larger than that so you

know of course the larger the area that

you're scanning the more points you have

and that can be very dense

um sounds like cost and the time

associated with a making the scans and b

making those conversions is a very big

deal

uh you know obviously not every

not every type of stakeholder you know

if you're an architect and you're

focusing on design

that may not be feasible within your

firm or you know sounds like on the

contracting side you figure out ways to

make it work because

that is a part of your process that is a

fundamental part of what you do and

being able to do the scanning but maybe

conversion isn't always necessary or if

you could get conversion on top of that

as a

as an easy gain then it would be much

easier to to justify

um

okay so you know i think that does a

pretty good job of laying the groundwork

uh

you know so so oda is is

you know in this this realm of trying to

provide sort of these core technologies

that fill these gaps right if you if you

look at what oda has done so far far

they've provided a lot of

interoperability toolkits for the

industry so

um

you know getting dwgs converted from

distant different systems now they have

an ifc toolkit they have a revit tool

kit they have a dgn part of their

toolkit and the whole idea is to enable

this information to travel between

platforms

so this approach essentially from oda's

say well could we do the same thing

in this scan to bim you know range and

you know in a tackle that says well

let's provide the tools and the

platforms for anybody and everybody to

be able to use

uh

you know and and as a cost to the to

their membership

um but what do you think about that

approach i mean does it does that seem

to make sense to you rather than sort of

waiting for

you know each of the individual vendors

and sectors to just sort of figure it

out

well yeah i think there's a need so it's

interesting because um one part of this

is how do you consume the scan data

right

one of the issues that we've always had

of course you know when you talk about

uh lasers kind of an airport you can

imagine how difficult this is to consume

in every sense hardware just

transferring the information making it

accessible making it available bringing

it into other systems so we obviously

need more optimized ways

of being able to make that data

available in a wide range of platforms

in a wide range of environments

everything

from uh

you know tablet computer all the way up

to your smartphone you know how do we

get a laser scan on a smartphone and

make it consumable

and

so we've we're working on finding more

optimized ways of delivering this data

to our clients

and making it consumable

especially over the web and on mobile

devices

and remember one of the big reasons

people do this is called metrology right

it's all about me you know one use case

is just being able to measure

and pulling information off of that the

scanned data and being able to do that

from any device

so there's of course you also have uh

being able to geo-reference the scan to

a space so

when you're standing in a in a location

and you want to take your smartphone and

kind of like use augmented reality to

kind of see what's in the ceiling and be

able to pull in the scanned data this

sort of thing and tying it back to a geo

reference point

and again being able to tie into mobile

devices

it's all about making it consumable and

making it extensible throughout the

design construction process

and anything you guys can do in that

direction would be fantastic

anyone else

and i i would definitely say the the

burden of entry that's that's the

toughest

toughest thing in in our industry

regardless of whatever tool or device or

uh workflow

especially in this one where you're

talking about when you enter this space

of laser scanning you can get third

parties you can lease them but if you

truly want to have a holistic program

in-house buying the equipment it's a

six-figure entry cost

and

so to get to that point just to

understand something that's a pretty

massive uplift so

once you get there you start scanning

you get this

this data set and now okay you have to

register it in

one of dozen different solutions

okay i have this beautiful wire mesh now

what the heck do i do with this

well now you got to take it into another

program and then you have to edit it and

you have to build a model you know so

it's how do we how do we simplify this

even more how do we make select

selectable meshes how do we make that

where we're working is more in the mesh

and less on modeling it that that

becomes the

active participant if you will for the

end game um but

you're seeing movement on the laser

scanning side of things you know it's

everyone's got the newest latest and

greatest cell phone or ipad and they now

all of a sudden have laser scans on them

nobody knew what the heck they were

going to do with it you know it was for

the ar so you can have a little dancing

rhino on your desk but then people in

our industry started being like wait a

second i can now

work with an interior designer i could

scan my apartment send it off to

interior designer and get a beautiful

decoration of my apartment so

if we could do that in our personal

level why why aren't we trying to

holistically approach this in our

industry to make it easier if i can go

out there with an ipad all my sub or all

my formative ipads out there let's start

scanning this let's start tying this

into different third-party solutions uh

procure not procurement uh production

tracking things like that so

i think the sky's the limit when it

comes to developing solutions for this

workflow

because it's an underutilized and the

burden of entry is so high that not

enough people are playing here yet so

it's kind of a

majorly under underutilized uh principle

in our industry and i i think it's it's

worthwhile and it's worth the investment

to start understanding what it could do

for you and your projects

yeah and i think you know i think this

idea that the oda approach to

speaks a lot to

you know one of their partners is

building smart international and

you know the building smart

international philosophy is well

one person can't solve at all so why

don't we all work together to figure out

the best solution

for everybody for most the time you know

figure out that 80 20 right and so that

you know you're getting

everything solved 80 of the time and

that 20 percent outlier will figure out

eventually and it may be a you know

strange use case

but working together to figure it out

and then sort of harmonizing

the the workflows and harmonizing the

results

across

you know a larger spectrum of

stakeholders and processes and things

i think has a lot more benefits to the

industry than you know just saying well

you know if i've got 50 different

companies are going to try to do this

and they come up with 50 different

solutions

now all of you in the marketplace have

to figure out well which one of us 50 is

the best

and it's like well what if

none of the 50 are good then what do you

do

right and how do you get them to work

together and say well maybe these five

are close or these 15 or 25 are close

now can you all work together to figure

out what's the best out of that

so i think jim you know dan pointed out

some interesting and so did hector about

um

how

this evolves then into the future

workflows and the potential you know

from their workflows

what do you see

makes it very simple to view just your

data even on the capture side with

drones and then with

we've been playing a lot with robotics

with spot um you have ways to automate

that capture process

makes that whole piece really efficient

but to your point

one of those big gaps in the market is

just

on the software side um just the ability

to efficiently

take this massive amount of data and

convert it to

a much more efficient model that you can

work with that you can share with the

team

that you can consume that down the road

this feeds your hair process this feeds

future scanning and

the ability to to perform inspections

with point cloud against the model

it's that upfront

investment that takes a lot of time on

projects for us but for huge projects we

might spend

a month

preparing this model so that's

to your point i i think that's

definitely somewhere where the industry

as a whole would definitely benefit

there are a lot of different groups out

there that have different tools and

um i'm sure like most of you we we have

to be pretty agnostic we have to use a

lot of different tools

there's a lot of different conversions

um to get what you need each has their

strengths that's their weaknesses

and we're constantly going through that

process on

on the scanning and software side just

to see

okay where's the industry app who's

who's bringing new

new technologies new potential to it but

the ability to

bring all those collective ideas

together in a simple

efficient solution i i think is

an amazing challenge but definitely

something that would benefit the whole

industry i would follow up with

what you're saying jim said and i see

the same thing so one would be the part

of visualization that gives access to

clients and everybody in the team to

really quickly understand the space or

even take a simple measurement you know

now to be able to access that data it is

pretty heavy and it is hard to to

anybody in the team to

just open it and take some quick

measurements

uh and the other thing would be

translation so how you take all that

point point cloud and you make it

accessible to whatever platform you're

going to use it we cannot restrict our

our users or whoever is is working with

this data to only work in one specific

brand

software so we cannot say well you if

you get this one

you use this tool to translate the data

and now you need to use auto revit you

know or you need to use um archicad so

it needs to be something called like

ifcs you know that is is it can work

across any platform and you can open

this this file in sketchup if you want a

rhino and you can get the same precision

but it's all about being efficient

so dan mentioned something interesting

about

and kind of a question is

depending on what your use case is

that conversion of scan to bim might

have different requirements right so

dan was saying you know for us i would

love to use a mesh right

and maybe in some cases just the point

clouds are enough in some cases

a simple point cloud to mesh conversion

enough in some cases you go that step

further what you say well no i want

actual

constructive solace geometry that's

typical in a bim system

that you know

gives me parametric then parametric

control over all of these features

i mean so so it sounds like there's also

a need for having that

that user control over

how far to take a conversion or what

direction to take your version not just

the fact that you have to convert it

anyways

any other thoughts on that

like

well on one side you have the software

generating uh the geometry

but that's in the world of bim is a

little bit more complicated because

you know you can make something that's a

cylinder look like a pipe but then then

you have the building object which is a

pipe

right and has more attributes connected

to it you know is it is this an electric

pipe is it a gas pipe what kind of

conduit are we looking at so

it goes a little bit further to just

generate the geometry you have to

generate the building object for that

geometry that's appropriate for its use

and function of what it is

um so and i don't know the software's

smart enough to tell that's an

electrical conduit versus this is a fire

protection pipe here so i don't know if

we're there yet in taking it to that

level granularity

would be cool i mean artificial

intelligence might be able to get us

there

um

but just based on geometry alone i don't

know if we can go the full mile with it

at this stage

with the building object situation

right so

go ahead and i was going to say there's

probably a step before that where

where where maybe the the future and not

quite attainable yet is is being able to

read the the

um point cloud and come up with an

actual you know bim construction

type level of detail

in between there is kind of perfecting

the the um point cloud to mesh system

which could be useful even going back to

our recent project of trying to

decipher between seats and floor in a

very densely packed

theater floor and trying to find little

bits of floor that managed to be scanned

between the seats and then create a a

recognizable

mesh out of that which was something

that we didn't have the ability to it

may exist out there but we certainly

didn't have the ability to automate that

and it became just a process of cutting

a ton of sections and trying to figure

out where the floor was among among all

the seats

uh

and then

also to add to some of the other things

that have been said here

we have also been seeing clients now

wanting to see

say point cloud data

and short of me sharing screen with them

there isn't the there are limited number

of ways to actually send them say 300

gigabytes worth of information that they

would then need

need a software to to do anything with

that

yeah

anyone else want to add

okay so so one last question i have and

some of you have already touched on this

is sort of the things of looking into

the future and how to use them i think

hector had brought up a great example of

you know using like ar with phones

and we see more and more now you know vr

trying to incorporate the the models

um i've seen examples now of people

trying to overlay

those scans and your view and the models

you know using an ar perspective

um you know these are you know small

startups or you know they're just trying

to push it out there but i think a large

part of it then comes back to well what

is this what does this mean for

your services to your customers as well

as what happens to you internally you

know if somebody had that ability to

you know incorporate

ar into it with these with the scan to

bim and and then being able to display

this stuff does that does that sort of

change how you think about the

information and then how you use the

information

yeah my gut instinct on something like

this i think um we're going to see this

information become more extensible and

like you mentioned jeffrey augmented

reality and serving that information up

on whether that's google glasses or you

know what an iphone or technology

iphone or a shield augmented reality

shield in front of your helmet whatever

that is

um as

as you know everything is going to cloud

and point clouds are going to the cloud

as well and if we could run those on

servers they're running in the cloud and

server it up to a

mobile device a lightweight mobile

device whether it's your smartphone or a

pair of smart glasses whatever the tech

is in the near future

i think there's going to be a market for

consuming this type of data after the

fact into field operations into

facilities management into you know life

safety

or even even you know

first responders going into a burning

building scenario where they can know a

little bit what's in the walls kind of

add the x-ray layer vision

um that has come from the scan data or a

combination scan data and bin model

so i think there's a feature for serving

that up i'm not sure exactly who sir who

who delivers this as a service but

i think there's a future for uh

consuming this data downstream and maybe

that the building department

now has a requirement to consume this

data and make it publicly available i

don't know

but i think i think there's definitely a

feature for that okay

that will get to a point that so what's

the format

so

maybe what is here is just

the developing a universal format for

point cloud data that can be consumed in

different ways so then you can get okay

the fire department has all the

equipment but well that's not the right

format so it should be some kind of like

ifcs again you know some kind of

international format that

anybody can have access to the data

i think going back to the original

question i mean it's i think the sky's

the limit on what you can and cannot do

with it

um

we're talking somewhat hypotheticals

here so it's

um on the most granular level what's in

it for me

so what how is this going to benefit me

and my workflows what are the benefits

to

improving the constructability and

improving construction telling that

story um you know we don't just

willy-nilly do things because it's cool

and neat there's a purpose behind it um

so what is that purpose and how can we

get to that end result and uh just like

the previous question on persona based

stuff you know mentioned fire

departments everyone watches ncis and

this and that and the fire department

shows up and they pull up the 3d model

of the building and this and that well

we all know that that's not a real thing

but

what if you know what if we can get

there there's a uh

interesting discussions on the apple ar

tags the the new tags that they have out

there it's built on their ar kit so is

apple secretly mapping

our environments without us knowing it

so you know how how do you get into this

realm of uh real-time city diagnostics

you get into digital twin a little bit

you get into constructability reviews

you know if i can really do that if i

can pull the building up using google

goggles

tear it apart throw in the 3d mod or

throw in the laser scan

pull different segments off add a whole

nother floor you know you get into this

really hypothetical world of these

what-ifs

but it it's going to take that burden of

entry to get there

to really explore

how we can start to leverage this

technology even more and you know what

are we the the six of us on this call

what are we not even thinking about that

we're under utilizing in this realm and

how can this truly evolve as this is now

the replacement of the slide ruler that

is now the cell phone in everyone's

pockets because back in the day when we

were taught math yeah you're never going

to have a calculator on you all the time

well and we know that that's not the

case we all have calculators on this on

all the time so in the future now that

we have laser scanners on us all the

time how can we start to evolve these

processes and procedures to benefit

ourselves and everyone in the entire

adcl process

hey i'll offer one up

one of the

one of the

biggest banes on a construction pro

project

is

the lag time of inspections to occur

between stages right

and what if

what if the inspectors didn't have to be

there on site in order to get it done

right what if you didn't have to worry

about that kind of scheduling instead

inspectors could use

those laser scans to do the inspection

and then sign off on them too based on

that or make their notations and

everything that they would do in person

instead of say okay well uh by the way

you know we're going to have a robotic

lidar scanning done

at the end of every work day or at the

end of every work week you know

can you work from

you know x date and you know and then do

an approval on that what i mean to me

that sounds like that would be a win-win

for everybody right

i think that's the separate panel that's

the scan to bim

lawyers perspective so we'll need to

come on to that one so

well yeah and and i think even even with

the scan to bim and and i think a couple

of you touched on the accuracy of the

the of the results right is

what does that accuracy mean you know

accuracy means everything depending on

what scale that you're working at and

then what is the ultimate purpose or

goal of what it is that you're scanning

you know if you

if you are trying to make sure that you

properly locate

you know all of the walls in a building

that may have shifted over the years and

now you find that you have a

a uh non-conforming condition

you know that begins to pop up these

ideas of oh well you know who's

responsible for that where does the

liability lie where

you know these things i and you know

of course we all know in our industry

you know liability and and all that is

you know one of the biggest concerns

everybody has because that equals money

that you know risk and that liability

you know can bring down entire projects

if not companies

yeah

always one of those conversations oh

look at the time i gotta go

well anyone have anything final to add

before we before we sign off

well one thing then paying digital lego

gym

on what we're just talking about the

ability to automate the capture process

to automate the registration to

push that data into the cloud and do

that as kind of a daily

check of the site that where you can

have robotics that can scan your project

can register can push it to the cloud

and perform those that analysis and see

how everything is

those pieces are just about there

they're they're very close um

and it's just to that

to any new technology the key is how

efficiently we can get that data

available and then it allows us to use

these different form factors

ar when it first came out

was extremely limited just because you

have a

small computing power within that

within the hololens device or whichever

device you're using we can see now with

efficiencies in the modeling processes

we can get those models

much smaller in size the compression

allows it to be seen on devices such as

our phone

as the device does improve as the

accuracy improves with these different

solutions

uh it's it's definitely gonna be

deployable the big question is how we

make it more efficient so like the the

scan to bend process

if it's taking a month then it's it's

not going to be viable in most use cases

whereas if we find ways using artificial

intelligence to

to make that process more proficient

repeatable and precise

then it allows us to with great

confidence to deploy this to our

different technologies and it becomes

part of our workflow because it's

something that's simple and adds value

ultimately somebody has to pay for that

month somebody has to it's got to come

out of somebody's pocket hector

yeah i was going to say you know we're

paying attention to 5g and all those 5g

towers are going up there and all the

new technology is being equipped in self

driverless vehicles that as far as i

understand are basically scanning as

they're driving along and getting all

kind of data about the built environment

around the vehicle and that's happening

hour after hour day after day week after

week year of the year

i can just see um that's a massive

amount of information is being collected

uh of the bill of the built-up

environment around us

somehow we're going to have to leverage

this kind of data and

i'd like to tap into that at some point

and so i see there's a there's a big

wave of big data coming from autonomous

vehicles whether those are drones flying

around or

you know uh uber helicopters are going

around picking people up in the future

they're collecting data of the built

environment and

that's been repeated on a constant basis

so

i think if we can tap into that and

optimize that it could be a very

interesting

use of lidar data that could be

available to us

excellent so i think that's something

yeah

well gentlemen i would like to thank all

of you for your time and giving us

feedback on this subject i'm sure the

oda development team and the the members

will greatly appreciate your input as

they look to tackle this issue

uh

hope you all have a good rest of the the

day and uh look to look forward to

talking to you all again hopefully

in person one of these days

um but uh

thank you very much

thank you

thank you everybody thank you

great panel

take care