605,701 Minutes to Align Business, Product, and Engineering Perspectives

Summary

Christian Pish, CTO of Anyline, discusses strategies to align business, product, and engineering perspectives in a tech-driven company. He shares insights from his journey as CTO, emphasizing the importance of clear communication, setting boundaries and responsibilities, and fostering a culture of transparency and persistence. Pish introduces the concept of 'value teams' and explains how Anyline uses a customer-centric approach with a public roadmap to prioritize features and outcomes, ultimately improving the company's ability to meet customer needs and streamline product development.

Takeaways

• 😀 Christian Pish, CTO of Anyline, discusses the importance of aligning business, product, and engineering perspectives to streamline operations and meet customer needs.
• 🛠️ Anyline has developed a B2B SDK that bridges the gap between the analog world and digital solutions, enabling features like scanning meters, license plates, and vehicle identification numbers.
• 🚀 Christian joined Anyline in May 2020 and transitioned into the CTO role in summer 2021, bringing a technical perspective to address the challenges faced by different company departments.
• 💡 The company introduced a 'Marketplace' concept, a forum for commercial teams to place product feature requests, which are then evaluated and prioritized weekly.
• 🔧 The concept of 'Value Teams' was implemented, where teams are given autonomy and internal responsibility to deliver outcomes that provide value to customers.
• 📈 Anyline shifted from a feature-based to an outcome-based approach, focusing on the impact and results rather than just the technical aspects of product development.
• 🔄 The company adopted iterative development cycles, emphasizing learning and adjusting along the way, rather than sticking to rigid, long-term plans.
• 🗺️ Roadmaps at Anyline are now used to rally the organization around common goals, focusing on outcomes and uncertainty acceptance, rather than just listing features and dates.
• 🤝 Strong alignment between the CTO and CPO is crucial for ensuring a unified message and strategy across the company.
• 🚧 Setting clear boundaries and responsibilities within value teams helps to establish a framework for success and provides a clear path for decision-making and escalation.
• 🔗 Transparency is key, with road maps and strategies being publicly available within the company to encourage shared understanding and open communication.

Q & A

What is the main topic of Christian Pisch's talk?

The main topic of Christian Pisch's talk is aligning the perspectives between business, product, and engineering within an organization.

What is Anyline's core product?

Anyline's core product is an SDK that enables the capturing of data to bridge the gap between the analog world and digital systems, such as scanning meters, license plates, and vehicle identification numbers.

What is a recent feature that Anyline has launched beyond OCR?

Anyline has recently launched a feature called tire tread depth scanner, which allows users to capture the tire tread depth using their mobile phone and determine whether they need to change their tires.

What challenges did Christian Pisch face as CTO in aligning different perspectives within the company?

Christian Pisch faced challenges such as context switches, overloaded teams, waterfall expectations, unclear responsibilities, and the difficulty of managing the balance between technical and commercial demands.

Can you explain the concept of 'Marketplace' introduced by Christian Pisch?

The 'Marketplace' is a forum for colleagues from the commercial team and others to place requests. It is publicly accessible within the company and helps centralize requests, making the decision-making process more transparent and organized.

What is the significance of the 'value teams' introduced by Christian Pisch?

Value teams, also referred to as feature teams, are designed to be autonomous and responsible for delivering value to customers. They are cross-functional teams that can operate independently and are aware of the outcomes they need to achieve.

What does Christian Pisch mean by 'outcomes over output'?

Christian Pisch emphasizes focusing on the outcomes that the company wants to achieve rather than just the features or outputs. This means discussing the impact on customers' lives and the value delivered rather than technical specifications.

How does Christian Pisch define the role of a road map in his company?

According to Christian Pisch, a road map is a tool to rally the organization around a common set of goals, not just a list of features and dates. It should focus on desired outcomes and impacts.

What is the concept of 'Duplo meetings' mentioned by Christian Pisch?

Duplo meetings are a format where the CTO, CPO, and other teams take a larger goal (represented by a big Duplo block) and break it down into smaller, manageable parts (like Lego blocks) to make it more tangible and actionable.

What are the five key learnings that Christian Pisch shared from his experience?

The five key learnings shared by Christian Pisch are: having one voice with the management team, setting clear boundaries and responsibilities, being persistent and patient, sharing information and road maps openly within the company, and embracing change as a part of the organization's culture.

Outlines

00:00

🎤 Opening Remarks and Introduction

The speaker begins by introducing Christian Pish, CTO from Anyline, who will discuss the alignment of perspectives between business, product, and engineering. The talk is eagerly anticipated by the audience, including the speaker, as it is a common issue faced in their daily work. Christian's presentation will focus on the 65 to 71 minutes required to bridge the gap between these three domains. The introduction also highlights the challenges of coordinating perspectives and the importance of effective communication among different departments.

05:05

🤔 Challenges in Aligning Business, Product, and Engineering

The speaker outlines the challenges faced when different departments' perspectives collide, particularly from a tech standpoint. Examples include context switching, where teams are overloaded and constantly shifting focus, and 'waterfall expectations' where rigid deadlines are set without flexibility. Unclear responsibilities and the tendency to overcommit are also highlighted as issues. The speaker emphasizes the importance of addressing these challenges to improve efficiency and productivity.

10:06

🛠️ Implementing Changes to Improve Alignment

The speaker introduces three pillars of change implemented at Anyline to improve alignment: a centralized decision-making forum called Marketplace, the establishment of value teams with clear goals and autonomy, and a focus on outcomes rather than outputs. The Marketplace serves as a public forum for commercial teams to place requests, ensuring all requests are visible and manageable. Value teams are cross-functional and responsible for delivering customer value, reducing dependencies and increasing efficiency.

15:06

🏔️ Empowering Teams with Autonomy and Responsibility

The speaker discusses the concept of giving teams the autonomy to reach their goals while also holding them responsible for the outcomes. Teams are encouraged to be independent and to manage their resources effectively. The speaker also emphasizes the importance of focusing on outcomes that directly impact customers' lives, rather than getting caught up in technical details or internal processes.

20:07

🛑 Adapting to Change and Embracing New Ways of Working

The speaker talks about the importance of being open to change and adapting the organization's structure when necessary. This includes embracing new ways of working and being prepared to adjust strategies and methods. The speaker shares a personal story about how an overworked employee was given a break, highlighting the need for support and work-life balance. The speaker also introduces the idea of 'duplo lego' meetings as a tool for breaking down large tasks into manageable pieces.

25:07

🗺️ Redefining Roadmaps to Focus on Goals and Outcomes

The speaker redefines the concept of a roadmap, moving away from a list of features and dates to a tool that rallies the organization around common goals. Time frames are clustered into 'now', 'next', and 'later' categories to provide clarity and reduce stress. The focus shifts to outcomes, emphasizing the desired impact on customers' lives. The speaker also introduces the idea of uncertainty as a natural part of the development process, encouraging a culture of learning and adjustment.

30:08

👥 Prioritization and Execution Through Value Teams

The speaker describes the process of prioritization and execution within the company. Prioritization involves discussions between commercial, product, and engineering teams to determine the importance of different items on the roadmap. Execution is carried out by value teams, which are responsible for delivering outcomes. The speaker also mentions the use of tools like Airtable to track progress and manage expectations, ensuring that everyone is aligned on the goals and the path to achieving them.

35:12

🔄 Fostering Alignment and Communication Across Departments

The speaker concludes by sharing five key learnings that have helped improve alignment and communication across departments. These include speaking with one voice as leadership, setting clear boundaries and responsibilities, being persistent and patient, and sharing information regularly and transparently. The speaker emphasizes the importance of these practices in creating a cohesive and efficient work environment.

Keywords

💡SDK

SDK stands for Software Development Kit. It is a set of tools, libraries, and documentation that software developers use to create applications for a certain software platform. In the video, the speaker mentions that their company, Anyline, is building an SDK that enables the capturing of data to bridge the gap between the analog world and digital applications, such as scanning meters, license plates, and vehicle identification numbers.

💡OCR

OCR is an abbreviation for Optical Character Recognition, which is a technology that allows the conversion of various types of documents, such as scanned paper documents, PDF files, or images captured by a digital camera, into editable and searchable data text. The script mentions that Anyline has moved beyond traditional OCR capabilities with the introduction of their tire tread depth scanner.

💡CTO

CTO stands for Chief Technology Officer. This is a senior executive role in a company that focuses on the technological direction and innovation of the organization. The speaker, Christian Pish, introduces himself as the CTO of Anyline, indicating his role in the company's technology strategy and leadership.

💡Colliding Views

In the context of the video, 'colliding views' refers to the conflicting perspectives that can occur between different departments within a company, such as the engineering team and the commercial or finance teams. The speaker discusses the challenges that arise when these different viewpoints collide, leading to issues like context switching and unclear responsibilities.

💡Waterfall Expectations

Waterfall expectations refer to a traditional project management approach where there is a sequential flow of work, often with little flexibility or ability to go back and make changes. The speaker uses this term to describe a situation where there is a rigid expectation of delivery dates without flexibility, which can lead to frustration and inefficiency.

💡Value Teams

Value teams, as mentioned in the video, are cross-functional teams that are responsible for delivering value to the customer. They are given autonomy to reach their goals and are held accountable for the outcomes they produce. The speaker explains that these teams are structured to reduce dependencies and increase the speed of delivering value.

💡Outcomes vs. Outputs

The speaker differentiates between 'outcomes' and 'outputs' in the context of team goals. Outcomes refer to the desired results or impacts that a project or feature aims to achieve, whereas outputs are the tangible products or deliverables produced along the way. The emphasis on outcomes is to ensure that the work aligns with customer value and business objectives.

💡Marketplace

In the video, 'Marketplace' is introduced as a concept for a forum where colleagues from different teams can place requests, which are then evaluated and prioritized. This centralized approach helps to manage the influx of ideas and requirements, ensuring that decisions are made collectively and transparently.

💡Roadmap

A roadmap in the video is described as a tool to rally the organization around a common set of goals, rather than just a list of features and dates. It is used to communicate the strategic direction and priorities of the company, with a focus on outcomes and uncertainty, allowing for flexibility and learning as the company progresses.

💡Duplo Blocks

Duplo Blocks are used metaphorically in the video to represent the process of breaking down large, complex goals into smaller, more manageable pieces. This approach helps in understanding and prioritizing tasks, making it easier for teams to plan their work and align on the path forward.

💡One Voice

The concept of 'one voice' in the video refers to the unified communication from leadership, particularly between the CTO and the CPO. It emphasizes the importance of alignment in messaging to ensure that the entire organization is on the same page regarding goals, strategies, and expectations.

💡Embrace Change

Embracing change is a key learning mentioned in the video, which involves accepting that the organization's structure and strategies may need to evolve over time. It encourages a mindset of flexibility and adaptability, preparing the team for future uncertainties and the need to adjust plans as necessary.

Highlights

Christian Pish, CTO of Anyline, discusses aligning perspectives between business, product, and engineering.

Anyline is a 10-year-old company that builds an SDK for data capturing to bridge the gap between the analog and digital worlds.

The SDK enables functionalities such as scanning meters, license plates, and vehicle identification numbers to reduce manual data entry errors.

Anyline recently launched a tire tread depth scanner using mobile phones to determine tire conditions and replacement needs.

Christian joined Anyline in May 2020 and became CTO in summer 2021, bringing a tech perspective to the company's challenges.

The presentation outlines the symptoms and challenges faced by engineering teams, such as context switches and overloaded work.

Christian introduces the concept of a 'Marketplace' as a forum for internal requests to streamline communication and decision-making.

The importance of distinguishing between customer requests and product extensions to prioritize work effectively.

Introducing 'value teams' instead of traditional functional teams to increase autonomy and internal responsibility.

Value teams are designed to be independent, reducing dependencies and focusing on delivering value to customers.

The shift from talking about features to discussing outcomes and impacts on customers' lives.

Adopting an iterative approach to development, focusing on incremental progress and learning.

The concept of 'North Stars' as guiding principles for all work, ensuring it contributes to customer value and asset protection.

Embracing change as a core principle, encouraging flexibility and adaptation in the organization's structure and processes.

The importance of clear communication and transparency in sharing the company's roadmap and progress with all stakeholders.

Christian shares five key learnings from the journey of aligning business, product, and engineering perspectives.

The necessity of patience and persistence in implementing new organizational structures and processes.

Transcripts

all right

everyone so now we will start into the

last Talk of the evening at least for

this stage and I'm actually super

excited about this topic because it is a

problem in my daily work um a lot so I'm

super happy to welcome Christian pish

from as a CTO from any line and he will

talk about many minutes as you can see

to align the perspectives between

business product and

Engineering thank and I assume you can

hear me well yes we can hear that it

works so I'm also from my side welcome

to this presentation also at this time

of the day I appreciate ask Stefan

please put me to the last feasible slot

um on Tech dat as the travels from

Vienna to Berlin there has been some

obstacles in the past let's put it this

way so uh glad you're joining at this

time of the day so uh thanks for the

introduction Johanna and U um exactly

it's about

65,7 one minutes to align business

product and engineering and um yeah as

joh said my name is Christian I'm

currently C of inine in Line's about 10

years old exactly it's actually exactly

10 years old and I will tell a few words

what enan is doing as a base and

foundation on on what we're talk

um yeah so let's without further Ado see

works perfect so without further Ado so

in a nutshell wor I'm not going to talk

about our Tech but you need to know the

bit of what we're doing so that the

remainder of the presentation uh more

tangible for you so what analine is

doing is we're uh building uh an SDK

it's a B2B product we're building an SDK

enabling the capturing of data uh

capturing of data uh you know to bridge

the gap between analog

world and um just to give you tangible

example uh some would would then take

this SDK and integrate it into uh uh the

app whatever this app may be and the

scanning functionality that's provided

is um uh for instance scanning meters

scanning license plates um scanning

vehicle identification numbers so

everything that um usually is done

manually which then often you know with

long text and um uh long numbers is then

often uh erpr right people making

mistakes and just recently we're going a

bit beyond OCR um we just recently U

launched our socaled tire tread dep

scanner meaning that with your mobile

phone you can actually capture the tires

of your vehicle will actually tell you

that the depth gr GRS whether you need

to change your tires but that's a whole

different story let's get back uh to

what we here

from there is one more disclaimer I'm

not a great artist I'm not climp so I

use emojis uh to add some more colors to

my to my

presentation so what's where's the root

of all this yeah um you Han need to tell

me if I'm dancing around much up here

yeah good thank you so um uh where's the

root of o yeah um I did join inine in

May 2020 um

and then grew into uh or switched into

the CTO Ro about a year later so summer

2021 and um being in the Rolland and

exposed there is so many

questions from a tech perspective you

could keep yourselves busy for probably

247 if you wanted to right there is it's

never done I think I can say that I'm an

engineer by education you're a scientist

by education right you can always come

up with great stuff to that you w't run

out of it then there's Tech that we need

to take care of in all these topics and

on the other hand um there's all these

uh Finance colleagues commercial

colleagues and they want to know so much

are you going to be on time with your

deliveries how much money are you gonna

need next year are your hiring plans AG

yeah how many people do you want a uh do

you plan on hiring next year and that

there's all these questions and they're

all fair to be honest yeah ultimately

obviously all our customers Prospect

don't know what they uh can expect to

Easter pain and um and these are all

fair questions to be asked um but I

would say the world Navy then you know

Collide a bit let's go this way and this

is what uh uh this is about today really

show you how we uh in these um 15 to 18

months of this journey um I want to

share with you those insights where I

think that you could benefit from um if

you had to do the same or if I had to to

do it again that's probably how I do

it that was too

much there you go so um in this Gap or

in these colliding

views I'm not going to go through all of

them but um there's some symptoms

challenges obstacles yeah and these are

specifically rather from a it is

obviously Tech day right so these are

from an engineering from a tech point of

view uh think that U um um people give

you feedback on uh struggles uh that you

face just to give an uh an example um uh

context switches yeah the teams or

people are overloaded they're working on

I know sometimes five topics yeah and

then uh you randomly sneak in and say

okay you know what yesterday You' been

work in um a today you're going to work

on me because this is way more important

yeah and if this just happens at hog uh

it has a lot

of disadvantages that you probably can

imagine yeah you know how long it takes

someone focusing on something than

getting back at that's one

examp the second example is that um I

explicitly put it as waterfall

expectations right these like a k what

day you're going to deliver feature X

I'm not explicitly saying feature X on

what day are going to be done yeah and

you will then have you okay so can you

then provide me with a status update

every days yeah ideally a written one

what it ever

read um then also what this all it's up

to like unclear responsibilities right

and I think I've heard it in one of the

talks today we all get into

meeting great we all discuss great

things we all agree that things need to

change then ultimately nothing happens

no one goes after this TOs and from a

holistic point of view not to add that

all up um I want to highlight Chef baps

um because that's what this adds up to

so this is the the right the things

where where things can touch in this in

these or Collide in these different

perspectives is that

um um you just say things that you will

deliver that things happen like

interruptions you will then not be able

to deliver on what you actually should

deliver and now we're going to look at

um first three pillars that we

fundamentally changed in the way we work

and then also I'm going to share a few

learnings the first one everything you

can read everything is

important everything is important um

whatever little again on purpose feature

request uh we may come up with or

whatever um and whatever you know idea

we have to ease the customers pain

will do it and whoever is the loudest

will get this feature right so and we

tell engineer in the morning you're

going to do no ideally you do a then if

someone screams louder at the end of the

day the engineer will go to bed um doing

B and I want to share one particular

story uh was actually in

2020 um I had a

colleague who uh in our back then uh

computer vision machine learning and

uh out to him because I kind of observed

that he was really working a lot a lot

lot you know um how you doing what's in

your plan right what What's happen like

you know what these sales colleagues

they like come into my room every single

day and to want something different and

I'm like almost working 247 he was not

you know was working way more I just

can't get it done anymore right I mean

the commercial colleagues were smart

right because they chose a Smart Cookie

because they knew they approached him

would say no he would do it and he was

just running out of his personal time

drowning and he what I did then is I

went back then to the um commercially

responsible person and I was like you

know what you got to help me now I have

this list from my employee I want to now

see what's really committed like what do

you need to be successful went through

that list you know how many topics were

U we need to do

zero exactly zero I went back sent him

on vacation for six weeks you know what

you go and

rest so what did we do this is a um

that's that's as good as I can get with

drawings by the way now you know I need

the Emojis um and um so what you can see

here there's a concept introduced called

um Marketplace we then involved into the

voice of the customer so this is the

first pillar how we address

it's a forum that's publicly accessible

in the company but it's a forum for

colleagues from the commercial team

wherever else to go there and place a

request happens in our case once a week

and then in this forum so number one

atage number one you have one place

where people go to you don't have the

people running around bilateral

conversations a lot of people left out

of communication you have the there is

um um a decision you need to take here

uh you need to uh again looking back

it's obvious right talking about the the

theme of pcon right looking back this is

so obvious um the first decision you

need to make is um what you're doing is

something that you build is request

coming from something that you want to

build because you want to extend your

product or is to request something that

you want to do U because you want to

help the prospect customer integrate

these for instance right and this is

distinction is what you got to make and

then you can also make a decision

whether this is going to be part of your

um product um um so if it's part of your

product you can then say okay our

engineering capacities are stars anyway

so let's have them focus on this so

that's what we do we really have this

meeting make a decision it's product if

yes if so then we're going to assign

engineering capacity and we're going to

put in our list of things if it's

project that doesn't mean we're going to

do it but we just don't do engineer have

like partner Network on where we have

Cod Direction with and

important there's a third

option which is simply no yeah so this

meeting is also used to say no right

just because something is brought into

the forum doesn't mean it's going to be

one of those you need to say no an

important learning here

is someone needs to be in part to say no

so it that decision needs to be accepted

it and um yes I'm just simply saying no

so pillar number one yeah so we have a a

bit of a direction of what we want to do

and what we uh don't want to

do so know what we're going to do it's

easy correct does we seem to do

it so we take the smartest

cookies um let's grab a few uh mobile

Engineers now is few mobile Engineers um

few people capable of C++ and then oh

yeah we need a machine learning engineer

let's grab one of these and ultimately

yeah a little bit of QA would also be

good right because we don't disine the

people with using our

product and then we'll just do it and in

other words you could see it as a um a

you know ler price skill based

organization right you have all

different people with the same skills

and the same um same teams and be quite

Frank

um it didn't work it U it didn't work um

we'll see an example in a few seconds

but it didn't work because um there's so

many topics and skills you need to touch

that it really needed to get the release

out it needed the alignment of multiple

teams right with a load of dependencies

between the teams right so one can't

move without the other um and the

consequences are you're just no yeah it

takes time so um what we

did is um um we introduced value teams

and you rightfully ask yourselves no

what in the world is a value team now

we've heard a lot about organization

organizational design topics but it's

there's different names in literature

But ultimately is couldn't put nothing

but a um FR functional team uh feature

team the reason

um you call them value teams is because

we we'll see that in a second we

really um I wanted to ensure that the

teams are aware and you will see in an

example that they produce value for our

customers so it's not just Tech to

actually produce value was one reason

second reason was um simple uh effect

learned at one of my previous employers

like you know I'm sure you're aware

but just sometimes people have emotions

connected to things and if you just you

know if you talk to you know there's

fans FR functional teams there is a

people that are not so fond of these

teams so uh that's also reason right

because then you just also cut these in

options so what is it um so we I'm not

going to go through all of them in

detail but um uh there's two things we

put the backpack of arents

one has characteristics second one you

will see in a second is

characters doing the characteristics is

um like you know you take one team like

you um ladies and gentlemen you have one

goal I tell you that's the mountain up

there that's the peak we want to

reach that's your path that you're going

to take we're not talking about how you

get there not going to talk about what

you're going to need this is the peak

autonomy to reach goals I want to pick

this one combined with intern

responsibility so on the one hand right

if we agree that's the peak we're going

to tackle we are I'm not going to

intervene I'm not going to tell you that

you must not use ropes and you must take

this path I'm not gonna micromanage yeah

but at the same time so you have this

autonomy but then you're also

responsible you're responsible to get as

a team to that PE you call me if you run

out of broke whatever it is you call me

I'll help you I'm not going to interrupt

and as a result of this right the teams

need to be independent yeah so um both

on a on an organizational on a technical

level right cut the dependencies

especially on a tech level right and

that's what I kind of want to connect

what I earlier that um um with the three

we like the 3D coordination right that

usually took days to release something

just like give them a focus let them do

the work and cut the dependency again

tech level and oranization the second

thing is kind of like boundaries if you

want to call it this way um and before

we go into the details or first item

outcomes of an output I'm not going to

sell you any book nor do I earn anything

uh uh by this book but if I'm personally

um uh personally um um um a fan of a

book or I learn something um I quote it

right if someone wants to look into so

this one I can recommend by Josh seidon

um fun fact he puts on his on the first

page on the cover says you can read it

in 40 minutes it took me like two weeks

or three weeks um because every

paragraph that he put uh made me think

and we reflected but the first one

outcomes of output um is also when we

talk in the team when we talk beyond the

team let's not talk about features yeah

we're not going to talk about we're

going to change Library one to two and

we're going to refect this and we're

going to do this no talk about the

outcome you want to achieve and the

impact it will create in someone's life

so I can tell you you change Library one

two three to reduce the scan Time by I

don't know 50% or I can say I want to

have a scanner capable of scanning

something within a maximum um of two

seconds to ensure the maximum uh uh

experience for our prospecting cust you

see the difference right I'm not going

to tell what exactly but what we want to

achieve and um the other three quickly

Noto iteration iteration yeah so what we

have again some story right we don't

have Sprints we have iterations so

iterations is basically um uh all of the

team you know from a from a from a

thinking perspective from a mindset

perspective don't tle the big thing

don't clim that let's not start the

journey today to reach that Peak and

expect that we're there and we know

everything on the let's get to the first

station let's really get the first part

of the journey behind us and learn along

the way um then we have North Stars not

going to go into detail but just so you

know it's it's kind of like bound it's

like whatever you do needs to have

customer value uh everything you do must

be U contribute to like protecting our

assets and whether this is any ISO

certifications and these so this is kind

of like boundaries to just give people a

boundaries they can operate

and uh the the fourth one I want to go a

bit into detail with bra change is um um

there was great support from the

organization when rolling this out I

really took the time to like sit down

with every single engineer so we didn't

have any uh no no Team all hands and no

um long team meetings I really set them

with everything s engineer walk through

this and one one topic we we discussed

also was Embrace change which means like

look we're setting up ourselves like

this today because it fits our needs the

best and if we need to change our

organization in I don't know half a year

because we don't know what happens then

I expect us that we just act kind of

like a fluid work around this so that uh

uh to put this into uh uh people's uh

minds and make also give them a

realistic expectation of of what we

expect um and also quite Frank um there

is something which I expected and that

happened is that not everyone is a fan

of these organizations not also there's

people who prefer different environments

it's one A and B and you know without

one being better or worse than the other

but it's just an environment and uh um

and this is you will and people will

then right people will leave right

because

ultimately um ultimately that

would so just to give you a very very

brief example one and this is

oversimplified now but um I think you

you get the idea uh in the way we build

right we have closing the loop which has

been a um publicly uh we actually wrote

A Few research grants um I can't hide my

past that I've been in research all most

of my life but um so we wrote a grant

and but but this is um about this that

uh you basically you know it's not a

surprise for engineers I guess but you

collect data look at we analyze we

augment update like it train models Val

model ship it to the customer and the

close into Loop concept behind it is

that we simply repeat this Loop we

repeat this Loop we ship something we

learn with the customer right we retrain

um um we ship it again and the way we I

know this is oversimplified but totally

sufficient uh uh to get point

across um and this is these are our

teams and that's how we C so we if we

start from left hand side right then

where you can see the phone um we have

two

teams capture Independence and capture

as it says this team is responsible for

everything that we need to capture data

on a customer's device so if you have a

platform problem if you need a new

platform whatever is you know exactly

you go to that team and that is super

valuable Beyond Engineering also because

these topics people can then you know

it's tangible for them and then you know

have you have a lot

of overhead in your communication that's

right just to give

another it's a team that's all that's

end to end responsible for delivering

the best models and that the models

actually also work in our SDK so if I or

if we Face some issues with with a

concrete situation that's the thing we

go to if I want to know how we perform

um on a given

device for a specific model

that's but um this just an example yeah

of how we have sliced want to call it

this way our

organization so knowing that we have

said yes and no what we want to do

knowing that we have teams who can do it

there's the third

ingredient um that should be shouldn't

it you have everything you know what you

want to do and you um have people so why

can't you tell me when I'm going to get

which feature isn't that easy right it's

just you just do the math right you take

how many people you have you have an

effort

estimation um and then you calculate a

few days and uh I think in this context

we're all aware that this is rarely how

u tech develop works it's actually very

cultural so what we did in this

context is um before we get into detail

um again book recommendation product was

relaunched and um this one I really I'm

gonna take the time to read it out to

you even though you could read it

yourself it's a love letter to a road

map it's the road map you have deceived

me gladly down a path of Lies painting a

picture of our future together all the

wonderful things we create

together the history right that was all

lies I gave you everything you asked for

support encouragement

forgiveness when you failed gave you

money and still you haven't been

through and

um again I'm not goingon to make like

advertisements for the book but there's

a few more love

letters but I chose this one and uh it

just really reflected and I want to pick

up one thought that's mentioned in the

book at the very beginning which I is

what is a road map so the road map

understanding was that okay it's a list

of features again features and dates

that's what we need but um taking a step

back

it just simply no it's not yeah or at

least that's the view we we now

developed is that and and again this is

what I would like to uh this is from a

thought from the book which then it

spark

this uh um the guys in the book say a

road map is a tool to Rally the

organization around a common set of

goals right does it never says feature

it says goals and that's the that's

really been together with the outcomes

and outputs that's been um I would say

very um um um framing in how we set this

up so let's look at it in in

detail um so there's a few aspects of

how we now work with road maps and what

road maps are number one time frames um

time frames are uh and again this is

also as describ those in literature you

cluster what you're going to do along

three dimensions now next later in our

case now is everything in the next three

months uh next is anything to a year and

later

is here anything beyond what we think

today is true

um this has not only the the the like

from an engineering perspective again

this has the positive effect that also

for um Engineers confronted with uh

daily work with the daily problems

challenges they have in the daily work

uh it's also a bit of a support knowing

that okay if I'm in a meeting talking

about something and then know it's in

next or even in later to make it

tangible um it just also supports them

right because you know okay discuss but

no need to worry about it

second

one outcomes yeah you've um um you've

heard this one before and that exactly

the same concept concept yeah outcomes

of output

by described it and U we really in our

road map we do not have features anymore

so in the

communication um we expect um the that

we really frame

what problem slash which output and

impact are we trying to create so our

road map is not not just like okay we're

going to build field feature X having I

don't know 100 different

interpretation interpretations in mind

what that feature could be should be

must be but really describe what do we

want to achieve what's this what what

what's what's this going to change when

we get it

done number three um uncertainty this is

something I

which again was um

um something that looking back is uh

obvious but not really and I've

mentioned it right I've been with IBM

research and also post at Tech

University of Vienna and something this

being in research has is that your daily

life is that you make

assumptions how you have a goal you make

assumptions to find out about is and all

these things and you're prepared that

things change it's like part of your uh

uh job that you are prepared that things

will change and they will learn there

not a problem right because you learn

it's good learn you adjust you move on

and this is so obvious but this is

something we uh also you know tell your

engineers right that it's totally fine

to like try something and learn and then

then move then move on and um this

really helps Engineers just like knowing

right that it's good okay to um um make

an assumption to test it out to learn it

and then to adjust along the

way and in this context dup Lego yes I'm

referring to the dup Legos that um here

we or our kids play with and it's it's

actually something I in the context of

uncertainty and when I had talks with

engineers and wrot article on it uh um

in the company just showing or like

making it more tangible for

people

what the different flight levels that

are in the company right with my

colleague with our CPO Christian um I

have a different flight level of what

we're going to do in now next later then

in um going to talk at a tech de so what

our people uh actually did I just

described it in this article and all of

a sudden people approaches like you know

what

um we're going to make a dup me we're

going to make a m legal meeting so we

have this there's actually meeting

formats in the company they are called

dup meetings leg meetings and they're

apart from you know our framework which

how work so you know exactly dup meeting

is a topic where um CTO the CPO um the

other teams they want to basically take

a a bigger Dupo block yeah and then kind

of take it apart and make Lego blocks

out of it make it more tangible just

have a St some swags kind of try to

learn what is meeting yeah and the the

Lego meetings are then before you go

into the iterations you then really say

okay we have this goal we want to reach

we should reach the outcome uh what are

the different bits and pieces we need to

do in the next two weeks four weeks to

get this

done

prioritization

um and we're not uh uh it's super

important obviously right at list but

prior ation extend the discussion

between commercial product and

Engineering uh on what's more important

so it's basically taking the different

items on the road map yeah uh And

discussing number one uh number two um

just to give you an idea things that we

you know obviously didn't consider um

it's just you know is this a customer

commitment is this uh um something we do

because it's you know it's part of our

product Vision uh is this something we

do because we we're going to have some

back somewhere in that we just can't

live it up without fixing that's that's

the sort of discussion that's going on

and then last but not least but types of

work is something that um um also

recommend when you look at the road map

when you have the road map you need to

some get some insight on what's in that

Ro and something that's very

beneficial when

you when you talk uh to to people also

Beyond engineering but also in

engineering

is

um to not count the features and thanks

for not counting the features but slice

and dice your road map and along three

types of work which is um customer

enabling work customer facing work and

Tech enablement work this describes

nothing more than Tech enablement work

is not Tech something we need to do to

keep the system running any tych work

and platform work automation work

um customer enabling is really product

work so to say that we that's going to

be part of our product and then customer

facing is done something really that

we're out of the marketplace of course

of the customer we know someone

requested something we decided yes we're

going to do it and this is how you can

really have a put and good abstract view

of what is in your in your room yeah so

quickly um we can um actually skip these

I just wanted to put that on the slide

so you have hand but that's just one

example and I briefly covered it before

I don't obviously in Engineering in any

of the meetings like a Lego meeting when

we have actually do it well obviously

yes yeah we're gonna talk about all

these things we're gonna talk about

organizing test devices we're gonna talk

about what we need to change uh but

that's then detail once you read what we

want to achieve that's the out uh the

outcome and um this Contex right and um

you could just say Okay I want to create

a webbased scanner for DNA driving

licenses and by way I just put that

there there is no such thing as a b

driving license and um you know having

the same accuracies as the native SDK

would have a maximum of two two seconds

of scaner for instance right very clear

and super uh tangible concept for for

everyone involved engineer product

commercial you know exactly what we

get and this is just uh an example where

I just explain right that's the

different um different uh types of work

in your super great discussion

especially when you face challenges like

a um um not one never said about it just

to to make it more tangible for you is

um oh engineering they're just keeping

themselves busy right I'm waiting for

that customer feature but I don't get

but this is then how you can show look

we have a 100% capacity put something

aside for unexpected uh um things to

come up but again look per have

something very like our Tech focus is

rather small compared to so great

communication good taking a step back

now um what did we hear what have heard

so it's a same story but from a

different perspective um so what we do

is nothing but a system right where we

collect we prioritize and we execute and

it's basically the three pillars that I

just described that we collect with uh

formats like Marketplace more formats

like product ideation process uh we have

a tech adiation process now where people

can really um um come up with ideas

proposals important thing is we connect

we have fun with then

prioritize again like we discussed we

sit together we have ququ our rules yeah

how things are mapped on the road map uh

and then it's a discussion it's a

discussion and also we have for instance

weekly uh Ro RWS so every week Monday

evening um covering times Monday evening

uh myself CPO uh we engineering uh these

colleagues we sit together look at it

what happened last week on track we need

to change priorities

anything last but not least execution

through the value teams so then take the

items in the road map then put

ises not not go into detail we just

wanted to mention that actually really

um have quote and Cote a uh you know

then obviously implemented our own tool

Bas the air table that really um we can

you know it's used by everyone to put

the outcomes put the output like put the

outcomes yeah uh maybe put a few outputs

it's necessary and then with the click

of a button right you can then really

calculate with all the assumptions or

object here and calculate on when you

expect something to be completed you can

then roughly see again knowing that

things change yeah but as of now you can

then okay is the capacity in team X

sufficient right to kind of um to

deliver what we and with this right you

can have very uh quick um discussions

right so we got an answer now right we

number one we know that we're talking

about the same thing if we got a

question now okay are you going to make

the de next year because I given the

Assumption uh that this is what we're

going to build and given the people we

have on board and given that it comes

true as we think it will um then yes we

can have great discussion Foster by

something like this but I'm not going to

go to Tool now um but at the end uh I

want to share um five learnings with you

and um I started with um I think because

when I prepared this I think I started

with 30 uh I cut it down to 30 like I'm

going to tell them 13 and I was like

that's way too much I I can't share so I

picked my point of view the top five uh

that apart from structure of

um uh the three things we just heard

like in road maps and oration and value

teams and all this uh it's kind of like

the glue in between where I said okay

that's the one thing you can do

methodologically and we build but that's

kind of like the glue that also made it

work and um

stay stays um first one is one voice

with this I mean uh myself

CTO and my colleague

um

Christian um about 80% of our management

team Christian not joking

um and U so listen me CTO CP

need to talk the same voice so ideally

if you ask him or me the same question

you ideally get the same answer because

that means we're 100% aligned and you

also need to speak that one voice to the

cust right it's product engineering is

very close yeah you can't live without

without second one is boundaries and

responsibilities um kind of what I we

started to talk about with the value

teams right you have characteristics and

paradigms that people should follow but

then you need to help your teams with um

um setting setting the stage and setting

the Frameworks right for instance um

making sure there is like the dup Lego

meeting yeah just knowing that there is

a place where they can go to concrete

need or that they know which decision

paths they can take that they know how

far they can go that they know uh when

to escalate yeah put that in place and

that that was definitely something uh

and uh that help also Concepts like uh

no meeting whatever day of the week that

but you need to make these rules

explicit and you need to write help your

team also help your team

by um really and that's something we

learned and kind of referring back to

the meeting situation now there's a lot

of people in the

meeting happens after that it really

a certain role where you wear a certain

hat when you wear that hat I expect from

you XYZ if you a bad I expect this if

you are a um senior engineer and

something I expect this and it helps

them it helps you again

provide

[Music]

um transparency yeah share share and you

haven't shared and share again the road

mapap for instance in our case is public

company internal publicly

available and um people can look at and

reinforced people look at also from from

other departments so we we have on the

one hand uh we do have regular reviews

regular presentations what months um I

do for instance BS with engine Kings all

together we look at for six weeks just

so that the teams know from each other

what's what's

happening um but um and then just share

share share it's uh uh like I said in

our case publicly uh available in the

company people can look it up people

will then that's great right because if

there's questions it means that you have

Foundation to at least discuss so

reinforc persistence um actually also

had a patience then uh I also patience

and persistence um this all looks like a

sunshine story if you want to call it

this but it certainly was not so this is

part of the things that did work now

looking back um but this entire um

Journey was not only this yeah there was

challenges

obstacles

disagreements emotions

Etc