Seth Godin — Lancio di servizi di nuova generazione

Summary

In this engaging talk, Seth Godin emphasizes the power of true storytelling in marketing, arguing against transactional approaches for a more human-centered strategy. He advocates for identifying and serving a specific tribe, making genuine connections, and creating horizontal word spread. Godin also addresses the misuse of metrics, the importance of customer selection, and the challenges of enacting change within conservative industries like agriculture, all while encouraging a shift towards meaningful, sustainable marketing practices.

Takeaways

• 📚 Seth Godin is a renowned American author, entrepreneur, and marketing expert, celebrated for his influential books on marketing and leadership.
• 💡 Godin emphasizes the importance of storytelling in marketing, arguing that true stories that spread horizontally are the foundation of effective marketing.
• 🚀 To make a change happen through marketing, one must identify the specific change desired and the story that resonates with the target audience.
• 🎯 Positioning is not about differentiating yourself from competitors, but rather about finding a generous place in the market where you can meet the needs of a specific group.
• 🌟 Godin advocates for focusing on serving the smallest viable audience that genuinely cares about the change you're offering, rather than trying to appeal to everyone.
• 🔄 Change in organizations often starts at the edges and requires architects who understand systems and can create conditions for people to achieve their desired outcomes.
• 🤖 AI and other tools can greatly enhance marketing efforts when used effectively, but it's crucial to be proficient in their use to avoid being used by them.
• 💼 Godin advises against relying on false proxies for success, such as massive numbers that don't equate to meaningful results, and instead focuses on accurate measures that reflect the true goals.
• 🌱 In conservative industries like agriculture, change can be spread by fostering communication among practitioners and demonstrating the benefits of new methods.
• 🔗 Authenticity in marketing is less important than consistency; what matters is that promises are kept, regardless of whether the care is genuine or strategic.
• 🎙️ Godin encourages marketers to be conversants rather than just speakers, engaging in dialogue and addressing the challenges and needs of their audience.

Q & A

What is Seth Godin known for?

Seth Godin is a renowned American author, entrepreneur, and marketing guru, best known for his pioneering work in the field of marketing and his powerful insights in business and leadership.

What are some influential books written by Seth Godin?

Some influential books by Seth Godin include 'Permission Marketing', 'Changing Strangers into Friends', and 'Friends into Customers'. His book 'Purple Cow' is also notable for its ideas on making a business remarkable.

What is the main focus of Seth Godin's talk?

The main focus of Seth Godin's talk is about making a change happen. He emphasizes the importance of creating stories that resonate with people and understanding the system within which change is to occur.

How does Seth Godin view marketing?

Seth Godin views marketing not as advertising but as a means to make a change. He believes that marketing should be about creating conditions for people to come together and spread true stories that hold up to scrutiny.

What is the concept of 'tribes' as discussed by Seth Godin?

The concept of 'tribes' as discussed by Seth Godin refers to groups of people who share common interests or goals. He suggests that for change to happen, one should identify and serve these tribes by addressing their fears and dreams, and helping them achieve their desired change.

What does Seth Godin suggest about the use of AI in marketing?

Seth Godin suggests that AI is a powerful tool in marketing and that professionals should become proficient in using it. He believes that embracing AI can significantly improve efficiency and output in marketing tasks.

How does Seth Godin approach the idea of positioning a product?

Seth Godin approaches product positioning as a generous act where the focus is on finding a place in the market where competitors are not. He uses a grid system to identify quadrants and suggests that the best position is where there is an opportunity without direct competition.

What is the significance of the 'chasm' concept by Jeff Moore as mentioned by Seth Godin?

The 'chasm' concept by Jeff Moore, as mentioned by Seth Godin, signifies that change often starts at the edges of a market or community and then spreads to the middle. It emphasizes the importance of focusing on the periphery to initiate change rather than trying to convince the masses directly.

How does Seth Godin suggest identifying the right proxies for measuring success in marketing?

Seth Godin suggests having a conversation about what success truly means for the organization and identifying the most accurate proxies that align with those goals. He advises against using false proxies that may seem easy to measure but do not reflect the actual desired outcomes.

What advice does Seth Godin give for creating a genuine connection with customers?

Seth Godin advises focusing on being consistent and keeping promises. He believes that consistency in delivering what is promised is more important than whether someone genuinely cares or is simply following a good marketing strategy.

Outlines

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Keywords

💡Marketing

In the context of the video, marketing is not seen as mere advertising but as a means to make a change happen. It's about creating and spreading true stories that resonate with people. Seth Godin emphasizes that marketing should be about serving the person being marketed to, rather than focusing on the product or service itself.

💡Leadership

Leadership, as discussed by Seth Godin, involves the ability to create a vision for change and to inspire others to follow that vision. It's about understanding the needs and desires of the group and leading them towards a common goal. Authentic leadership is shown through consistent actions and keeping promises.

💡Innovation

Innovation is the process of introducing new ideas, methods, or products. It is about finding new ways to do things and is often necessary for growth and success. In the video, Seth Godin encourages businesses to be innovative in their approach to marketing and to find new stories that resonate with their audience.

💡Authenticity

Authenticity refers to being true to one's own personality, spirit, or character, despite external pressures. In the video, Seth Godin argues that authenticity is overrated and that consistency in keeping promises is more important in building trust and credibility.

💡Change

Change is the process of making or being made different. In the video, Seth Godin emphasizes the importance of making a change happen as the central theme. He discusses how change should be intentional and designed to serve a specific group of people, leading to a shift in their behavior or mindset.

💡Storytelling

Storytelling is the act of telling stories, often to entertain, inform, or instruct. In the context of the video, Seth Godin highlights the power of stories in marketing, explaining that stories are the basic elemental human technology and are crucial for spreading ideas and making a change happen.

💡Customer Service

Customer service refers to the assistance and support provided to customers before, during, and after their purchase. In the video, Seth Godin suggests that small investments in customer service can lead to significant changes within a company, demonstrating the importance of attending to customer needs and experiences.

💡Positioning

Positioning is a marketing strategy that involves creating a unique place for a product or service in the minds of consumers, relative to the competition. In the video, Seth Godin discusses the concept of positioning in relation to finding a quadrant in the market where there is little to no competition.

💡Systems

Systems refer to sets of interacting or interdependent components that form an integrated whole. In the video, Seth Godin uses the concept of systems to explain how organizations and communities operate, and how change can be facilitated by understanding and working within these systems.

💡Brand Awareness

Brand awareness is the extent to which consumers are familiar with a brand and its presence in the market. It is a key aspect of marketing strategy that helps consumers recognize and remember a brand. In the video, Seth Godin addresses the importance of brand awareness and the strategies companies can use to build and enhance it.

Highlights

Seth Godin, a renowned American author, entrepreneur, and marketing guru, emphasizes the importance of making a change and the role of marketing in facilitating that change.

Godin's work is传奇般地以商业和领导力的深刻洞察而著称，他的书籍如《许可营销》和《紫牛》等对商业世界产生了巨大影响。

Godin提倡的营销理念不仅仅是交易性的，而是关于分享和慷慨精神，他认为如果我们都分享某样东西，我们都会拥有它，而且会更多。

Godin认为，真正的营销是建立在真实故事的传播上的，这些故事能够经得起审查，而虚假的东西最终会站不住脚。

故事是人类基本的元素技术，它们不需要文字，可以是一个气味、一个记忆，或者是你的着装方式。故事是情感的载体，而价格也是一种故事。

Godin提出，营销人员应该专注于为特定人群服务，而不是试图影响每一个人。找到最小的可行受众，那些真正关心你工作的人，他们会倾听、参与并传播你的故事。

Godin讨论了定位的概念，强调定位不是你对顾客所做的事情，而是你为他们做的一件慷慨的行为。

Godin认为，成功的营销不是通过大规模的广告或推广，而是通过创造条件让人们聚集在一起，从而有意地传播想法。

他提出了“部落”概念，指出人类历史上一直在部落中组织生活，而今天的消费者和市场也形成了现代意义上的“部落”。

Godin强调，营销人员应该服务于现有的部落，而不是试图改变它们。理解部落的恐惧和梦想，并帮助他们实现这些梦想，是建立信任和影响的关键。

Godin讨论了系统的概念，指出系统是围绕维持现状而建立的，而改变往往发生在系统的边缘。

他提出了有意识的设计概念，即在开始营销活动之前，要明确你为谁服务以及你想要实现的具体变化。

Godin认为，营销人员应该避免使用虚假代理来衡量成功，而应该找到真正反映目标成就的准确代理。

他提到了AI的魔力，并分享了他如何使用AI来提高工作效率，同时强调了掌握这些工具的重要性。

Godin以Volvo的Super Bowl广告活动为例，说明了如何在不直接参与大型广告活动的情况下，通过社交媒体创造性地吸引注意力。

他强调了在营销中保持一致性的重要性，认为一致性比真实性更重要，因为人们更看重品牌或个人的可靠性。

Godin讨论了如何在农业等保守行业中传播变革，强调了通过建立社区和同行之间的交流来促进创新的重要性。

他提出了关于如何识别一个人是否真正关心一个问题的观点，认为一致性和承诺比表面上的关心更为重要。

Transcripts

now it gives me incredible great

pleasure to introduce our next speaker

this afternoon Mr Seth Goden he hardly

needs an introduction he is a renowned

American Author a do entrepreneur and

marketing Guru he is perhaps best known

for his pioneering work in the field of

marketing and recognized for his

powerful insights in business and

Leadership his writing is legendary

having produced many influential books

with such great names like permission

marketing changing strangers into

friends and Friends into customers as

well as Purple Cow transform your

business by being remarkable to name but

just a few he has had business week and

New York Times bestseller as well as

business week naming his book Lynch ping

among its 20 best books by the most

influential thinkers in business what I

particularly love in Seth godden's

writing is that he Advocates a great

generosity of spirit like an art of

gifting that if we share something we

both have it and there is more to doing

business than just being transactional

Seth Gorden is also a popular blogger do

check out his seth. blog for a daily

dosage of piy wisdom and commentary

today in fact I discovered Seth's answer

to the ageold riddle what's came first

the chicken or the egg do go and check

it out it's an interesting answer um and

by the way Seth's blog on April 7th 2021

I believe should give you a definitive

list of kits you need to remote video

meetings to make them look as good as

Seth's I don't know if that's still

correct uh but certainly last time we

did have a lot of interest in your

technical setup um Seth Gorden is a sort

after speaker and today we are very

privileged indeed to have him here with

us I am greatly looking forward to your

talk sir you asked how many people are

uh listening I believe well over 500 um

so Seth Goden sir a huge welcome and

over to

you thank you Michael it's great to see

you again and Alex I just did I only got

to hear a little bit of your music but

thank you for sharing it I'm thrilled

that everybody's here many of you were

here for our last session if you weren't

I hope you got to see the recording I'm

going to repeat very little of that in

my Prelude the main reason I came is not

to be a speaker but to be a conversant

because guess what you can watch me on

YouTube all day long you could have a

whole channel of just me the whole

beauty of this format is that you're

going to get to ask your questions in

the chat that I'm going to talk for as

little as I can get away with because

it's the conversation it's your case

study it's your challenge it's what

you're dealing with that is why we are

here and I'm going to also begin by

apologizing to the translators because

I'm already talking too fast but I'll do

my best to slow down a little bit

so as Michael said I have been

privileged to write a whole bunch of

books and if you look at these books

what you will see is that they have

something in common and what we're here

to talk about are the next steps the

next steps for you in your journey to

make a change because that is what the

books have in common they are about

making a change happen that we get

really hung up on this word marketing

and you know I sort of reinvented what

it meant because I don't think marketing

is advertising I think that we are here

to make a change and if you can be

specific that change might be very

little I need to get this person to buy

my item or it could be very big I need

to change the

culture and you the people who are on

this call from all over the world you're

here on your own time because you want

to make a change

happen I'm going to start with this

making a change happen is built the way

marketing is built on true stories that

spread so we should break down those

pieces true because it will hold up to

scrutiny the fact is it's easy to lie on

the Internet it's easy to scam and hype

and hustle but it doesn't hold up the

people who were busy scamming four years

ago where are they now the folks that

were building Ponzi schemes on top of

nfts where are they now that we can go

down a long list of how easy it is to

start with something that doesn't hold

water but what we find is that the truth

catches up and what's a story well we're

going to decode that a whole bunch in

the next few minutes and what does it

mean for it to spread what it means for

it to spread is that you are not the one

who's going to quote get the word out it

is not your job to interrupt me it is

your job to create a story that I will

tell my friends about because that is

how the word spreads it spreads

horizontally so when we open this up to

Q&A when we start talking in the chat

begin with this what exactly is the

change you seek to make and then second

where is the story the story that

resonates with people because stories

are the basic Elemental human technology

before there was anything else the thing

that made us human stories dogs don't

have stories chimps don't have stories

people have stories a story doesn't have

to have words in it it can be a smell it

can be a memory a story can be the way

you dress the genre you choose but a

story is

emotional and guess what

your price is a story price is not

just a transaction price is am I the

kind of person that wants to buy a

luxury good am I the kind of person that

wants to find a bargain there is around

the

world a chain of Ralph Lauren clothing

thrift stores these outlet stores not

thrift stores outlet stores around the

world sell Ralph Lauren stuff and the

story is simple you're getting a

discount because this is stuff that

slightly defective slightly out of date

couldn't be sold in our high price

stores where people don't realize is one

the stuff in their outlet stores

generates more than half their revenue

and

two they make it in a different Factory

for a different audience it never had a

chance of going to their other stores

that's a story is it true yeah it's true

in the sense that this isn't at our

fancy store and it's true that it's

cheaper but the story you're telling

yourself is you're the smart kind of

person that isn't going to need to pay

extra at the fancy

store but where all this comes

together is to realize and marketers

including me have problems with this all

the time is that you are not the point

you are not what your marketing is here

about marketing is about the person we

are talking to it is about the change we

are offering them if it's about you if

you are busy talking about yourself

without regard for the person you are

working with interacting with helping

changing we're just going to walk away

because we have other things to do so

this is something I talked about a bunch

last time this is your biggest problem

your biggest problem is you're busy

working for someone or with people who

think that this is a worthwhile slogan

that SEO matters because if you type in

locksmith you can pick any locksmith but

here I am I'm the first one if you're

making average stuff for average

people you're in a race to the

bottom and the problem with the race to

the bottom is you might win or Worse

come in second and if you win the race

to the bottom you have to stay there I

am proposing a race to the top to build

an idea that

spreads to do that on purpose to

intentionally create the

conditions for people to come together

and that means that we have to see

systems so systems confuse a lot of

people and I think it's worth a couple

minutes to break this

down no matter where in the world you

are if you look up in the sky tonight

you will see stars and planets the solar

system is what we call the thing with

our sun and all the planets around it

now the thing

is Mars and Jupiter rotate around the

sun not because they want to

but because they are part of a system

that sometimes an asteroid races through

our solar system and then leaves and

other times it gets caught up in the

gravitation and it stays and becomes

part of the solar system well we are

surrounded by systems and we don't have

to want to be in them to be in them

there is the giant geopolitical systems

of country versus country and then there

are the tiny systems of your family and

who always sits at the head of the table

and who does the grocery shopping there

are systems expectations the way it is

in the classroom the system of why does

someone need to get a degree if they're

already smart about doing things systems

reinforce the status quo systems fight

change when a new uh Interstellar body

enters our solar system the Earth

doesn't go off its accd

because it is resilient systems that

aren't stable are gone the systems that

stick around are fighting the change and

if you're in the business of making a

change happen you need to see where is

the system that exists that doesn't want

that change to

happen so we need intentional design

intentional design says if I'm a

marketer here to make change happen I

need to answer answer two questions

before I begin who is this for who

exactly am I seeking to change can you

name them are there aund a thousand a

million of these people and the second

is what's it for what is the change I am

here to make specifically how will I

know if I achieved it and when you put

those two things

together you're able to find the

smallest viable audience it's not the

biggest possible audience that's greedy

and it's not going to work everyone who

has ever made a change happen whether

it's a vast billion person change like

what the Mahatma did in India or a tiny

change like what that one person did at

that little shop for 30 people in the

town always begins with the smallest

bable audience not everyone but someone

work that

matters for people who care people who

care are enrolled in the journey people

who care show up people who care are

listening people who care spread the

word if the work matters so I'm hoping

that in just 10 minutes of ranting I'm

already beginning to get under your skin

because maybe you're busy selling

average stuff to average people and

you're wondering why you can't hustle it

harder and if you were listening I I

think you understand why now so what to

do about this well I wrote a book called

tribes and the argument in tribes is

that for 10,000 years human beings have

been organized in villages groups of 150

or so people who know you people who

would miss you if you were gone People

Like Us do things like this creators of

culture being in a tribe is a v untary

act I choose to have an Android phone

not an iPhone I choose to eat this diet

not that diet I choose to go to this gym

or watch that TV show not this one

because my people are there the thing is

you are unlikely to have your own tribe

I don't have a tribe but you might be

able to narrate connect with lead a

tribe that already

exists so in my country we have

volunteer fire departments someone

volunteers to spend a lot of their time

in the local Community Helping create

safety well if you build a business that

helps volunteer fire departments do

their jobs better you will be narrating

for that tribe you will have found a

group that wants to be more connected

more powerful to have a change happen

so what we're looking for as we seek

tribes to serve not to do something to

but to serve are what are their fears

what are their dreams because if you can

help somebody with their

fear they will come to you if you could

help them achieve their dreams they will

come to you that what it means to do

this s sort of intentional design is to

be of service to make a change happen on

behalf of this group of people people

who are self-interested self-interested

does not mean selfish self-interested

means I have to tell my boss something I

have to tell my partner something I have

to tell my spouse something what will I

tell them about why I changed what will

I tell them about what I did if you can

help me answer that question I'm more

likely to say yes and if you can't I'm

much more likely to say

no okay so tomorrow in the United States

is a ridiculous day uh some people call

it the Super Bowl I prefer to call it

the superb owl I have a blog post about

this tomorrow the problem with the Super

Bowl besides all the head injuries and

the misogyny and the classism and

everything else is it's about Mass 40

years ago on the Super Bowl

Jay shyatt and Lee CLA ran the famous

1984 Apple commercial that was the first

Super Bowl ad I mean there were Super

Bowls before that there were ads before

that but that was the one and ever since

then marketers have been paying a

premium a huge premium to run their ads

on the Super Bowl to reach the maximum

number of

people this is

ridiculous because they are paying extra

to reach people who aren't interested in

what they have to sell they would be

much better off buying 10 much smaller

ads in 10 very specific places to reach

the people who want to hear from them to

find the tribes that are seeking the

change they are there to offer but we

are seduced particularly in my country

by shortcuts easy things by getting the

word out by loudness by mass but Mass

means average and if you're making

average stuff for average people it's

going to be a struggle for you for a

long time so this is the most advanced

part of what I want to talk about today

and then I'm going to pause and

hopefully Michael has been collecting

questions and we're GNA shift to going

through your cases so you can ask your

questions as generously as you can in

the chat

meaning even if someone didn't have the

problem you have is it a question other

people want to have answered because if

we can turn these into interesting case

that's useful okay so I got a few more

minutes to go so here we go there are a

lot of cars around the world there are a

lot of cars to choose from what do you

do if you're a car maker and what I want

to talk about with just a few slides is

the idea that positioning from trout and

Reese positioning is not something you

do to your customers something you do

for them it is a generous act right that

what we're looking for is someone not

everyone so the way I do this this

positioning thing is I start with an XY

grid this is the hardest

part on the XY grid you need two axes

and the top and bottom left and right of

each axis has to be a good thing so

you're not allowed to have excellent and

lousy you're not allowed to have

overpriced good good value because no

one wants to pick overpriced you have to

pick things where some people might want

that and some people might want the

other one so in this case for four car

brands what I've done is I've picked

luxury versus value lots of people want

value lots of people want luxury agility

nimbleness and power you could see how

someone would want either of those so

now if I'm a car maker what I get to do

is decide where my next model is going

to fit which

quadrant do I live in and the magic of

this is if I can find a

quadrant that doesn't have anything in

it that

spot that

position that is a good place to be so

what we try to do is find axes where our

competitors are all in one or two

quadrants and where there are other

quadrants where there is an opportunity

and the reason that this is a generous

Act is that it lets us treat people

different people differently it lets us

say to

someone sorry did I just get muted one

second am I muted can someone just tell

me if I because I saw something flash by

that made me

confused if you could just put into the

chat or Michael just pop back on because

I don't want to

be ranting here for no good

reason we can hear you I'm okay yeah

everything good great I I will I will

ignore the warning I just saw thank you

okay sorry so if someone comes to me and

I'm a Porsche dealer and they walk in

and they say hi I'm looking for a a high

value car that I can take to the train

main station we don't try to per

persuade you to buy a a tan we don't try

to persuade you to upgrade to a Porche

911 we say oh my friend is at the hondai

dealer down the street tell them I sent

you that if you are not regularly

sending people to folks that might be

considered your competition you're not

serious about having a position so if

someone shows up and asks me to do X Y

or Z that other people do better than me

I say here this call this person call

this person call that person that's not

what I do I do

this and this choice of treating

different people differently of showing

up for the people who want us frees up

everything okay so the next topic which

is unrelated but comes up a

lot AI is here AI is Magic uh there's a

an AI I use first I got to say if you

ever see anything written by me a blog

post or a book I wrote every word of it

I have no team and I'm not using AI to

do my writing that's my choice there's

nothing wrong with using AI but that's

my choice but I use AI every day so

today I gave AI three paragraphs and I

said please write this into a formal

exciting well-formatted press release

and

Claude came back with a great press

release one that it would have taken me

a very long time to write something

better than that and so what I'm arguing

here is that you're either going to get

good at using these tools or they're

going to use you that you probably

should be spending 30 minutes a day on

chat GPT and Claude becoming the best

person at using it on your team because

it's happening it's real and we can't

deny that this is what's right in front

of us so as I wrap this up I want to

just do a recap of something that I

showed you last

time this Chasm from Jeff Moore is

something that people miss all the time

if you are going to cause change to

happen you're going to cause it around

the edges the

edges is where change Always occurs and

then after the edges

change the word can spread it can spread

to the middle not because you spread it

not because you bought a superb owl ad

not because you hustled somebody or

tried to figure out how to get mentioned

on some blog post you don't belong on no

you can make it spread because other

people are going to spread the word so

the argument I've been trying to make

and I hope it's resonating with you is

you are Architects you are architext of

systems within systems you are here to

make a change happen to create the

conditions for people to get to where

they are going because it is much easier

to help someone get to where they're

going than to persuade them to go where

you want them to so that's my rant 21

minutes I hope it changed something for

you and now my favorite part I hope

yours too we're going to do Q&A Michael

what do you got for

me hang

on

uh Seth that was excellent yes we have

lots of questions I love your your final

thought where the architects of change

uh get people to go along with you

rather than uh twist their arm uh

together it's a great thought um and I I

I sort of agree with you on the Super

Bowl it's just one of those weird things

that seems like something that's left

over from the past uh always intrigues

me you you there's a great campaign for

Volvo I never I don't know if you came

across it when all the big car they

weren't advertising there when all the

big cars were advertising um all they

wanted you to do was tweet Volvo so when

you saw Mercedes or Chevrolet on a big

ad for the Super Bowl you had to just

tweet uh Volvo and there was some sort

of prize you could actually give a Volvo

to a friend and it was a genius idea

every time all the big cars came on the

Super Bowl suddenly the Twitter sphere

exploded with um uh with with

Volvo it's a great anti sort of anti

super idea but anyway enough for me lots

of great questions um here and do keep

them coming um so uh krishnam asks uh

there are so many stories out there uh

on social media how do we know if a

story is true um and genuine um and how

can we identify

that okay so let's use the words very

carefully and I only speak one language

so that's why I can focus on the words

in my language there is a lot of there

are a lot of words and pictures on

social media but that doesn't mean that

they are

stories a story only becomes a story

once I internalize it so if someone

writes something in fary it's not a

story to me it's just characters on the

screen when I internalize the story if

it causes an emotional change in me I

want to call that a story so you know a

fable uh a boy cried wolf in the

villagers didn't come that's a story but

you know what else is a

story the way a certain kind of pie

baking reminds me of my mom that's a

story because it's a connection to where

we are who we are where we're going so

you are asking a question about the

things we see online almost none of them

are true in the sense that they are

reality because everything

is condensed everything is a model for

reality the map is not the territory so

when someone shows up and says something

or even shows us something without

context we can't take it at face value

we have to decide who we're going to

trust where does trust come from a lot

of people have been manipulated

particularly in the last 10 years by

evil forces online who are getting them

to do bad things for their health or for

politics or for their Community they're

manipulated we're trusting the wrong

people and just because someone has a

microphone doesn't mean they have

authority just because they're right in

front of us online including me doesn't

mean we should listen everything they

said we have to figure out does it work

does it hold water is it logical does it

fit

in to our worldview or is it worth US

changing our worldview right

and one way to deal with it is to

consume far less social media to make

the circle that you are trusting a bit

smaller to figure out how to hold new

ideas responsible for whether or not

they work not to justify their failure

over and over and over again so yeah

people who buy $150,000 car that breaks

down find some way to justify that it

wasn't the car's fault because cognitive

dissonance is real all of which is a way

of

saying real

marketing takes a while showing up and

showing up and showing up I'm 9,000 blog

posts in I would like to believe that if

I write a blog post tomorrow that maybe

is a little sketchy for you you will

think twice before you ignore it because

I've earned the benefit of the doubt and

the benefit of the doubt is what we seek

the benefit of the doubt is where trust

lies the benefit of the doubt is I will

try that story on and see if it

fits

great that that that is great and and

certainly your blog is amazing I was

actually looking at it and literally

every day as you say you show up you

show up show up with with something to

think about and reflect on and stuff

that pings uh out uh and gives you

reasons I reflect um Margarita asks how

would you change the culture of a

20-year-old company that thinks first of

products and leads and little about

investment in brand awareness and brand

recognition I love this question

Margarita thank you your company is a

system every single person who works

there works with other people and the

system has gotten it through 20 hard

years to where it is so when someone has

a choice about how to spend the next few

hours or a choice about what to talk to

their boss about or Choice blah blah

blah blah blah they say to themselves if

I can bring prospects and leads a new

business I'm gonna get a smile and maybe

a promotion on the other hand when

they're making a choice in the system

they are in about making an investment

they're thinking about how many steps

they're going to have to go through to

get to the next level so how do we

change a system well there are a few

things to think about the first one the

biggest one is this you're allowed to

leave that there is nothing about any

given institution that

guarantees it has the right to make you

stay so when people who are seeking

growth leave an

institution one of two things happens

either the institution Withers and Fades

away or it changes because you took an

action and they had a respond but if you

want to stay it seems to me that asking

for the

authority to do these big things that

you know are right lets you off the hook

because if you ask for Authority then

someone else is taking responsibility

for approving your plan and in my

experience of working with organizations

that's not really how change in systems

happen it happens when you find the

smallest tiniest Innovation that you can

take responsibility for without any

Authority do it

and then give your boss credit because

then she'll ask you to do it again and

again and again so it can be making a

tiny investment in customer service a

tiny investment in some sort of new

innovation the point is the posture if

it doesn't work take the blame they're

not going to fire you if it does work

give away the credit and you'll get to

do it again and then we begin to cycle

and change and cycle it's worth noting

that Nintendo used to make playing cards

and it's also worth noting that Western

Union was so in love with making the

telegraph their system was

so built around telegrams that they had

the chance to buy the entire phone

system of the world and they didn't do

it because they said we're not in the

Communication business we're in the

telegram business so it's easy to get

stuck but it's also easy as we see from

Nintendo if you are willing to increment

to get

unstuck uh Nintendo with playing game

with playing cards that's a fantastic uh

example ranging that's a Toyota we do

some work with Toyota they talk about

themselves being a Mobility company not

a car company which is kind of changes

the conversation completely very

interesting um we are lots lots of good

questions and try my best everyone to

get get through them all they are great

um and keep them coming um uh gno asks

and actually it's it's an interesting

question this and it's something I've

come across uh at work how do I get the

story out of Engineers who think that

the amazing things that they do are kind

of just normal and a bit kind of

uninteresting it's it's such a real

insight that I often you talk to people

and it's like you do something really

incredible and they're like well it's

just boring so how how can you work

around that or help with this yeah so

let's talk about self- and systems again

um

Engineers have a different scorecard for

what a good day at work looks like they

have a good a different scorecard for

what a successful product might look

like that if we talk about what the

original Mac team thought of as

breakthroughs one of the things was when

you move a window from one part of the

screen to the other they had to figure

out how to make that possible because

there's they didn't want to recompute

everything under the window every time

they moved it because it wouldn't work

that was a home run from an engineering

point of view and Steve Jobs's

contribution was to not tell anybody in

the public about that because didn't

match our story of what we needed right

and instead there's a pirate flag

hanging over their office and the inside

of the original Mac was signed by the

first 30 people because it was this

heroic effort that's not what the

engineers signed up for but it's what

the public heard about so what we do as

marketers is we have to work to

decode one person's self-interest and

turn it into a useful story for somebody

else and what I have found is that when

we sit with an engineer and say show me

the hard parts of what made this work

show me compared to what you're

replacing why the thing you did that was

so hard was worth doing talk to me about

which parts of this you are proud of

what you will hear is in their

self-interest their story of their Quest

and then your job is to reconfigure it

into how does this help someone who

doesn't have this thing yet and it's

that shift treating different people

differently that's hard because it takes

empathy great empathy is great final

thought such an important thing um loads

of ining wish we had all night but

unfortunately we don't we just have to

do the best the best we can uh a

question from Marius um who says how can

we become relevant in our companies in

the challenging times uh we live

in

challenging times is where change happen

right

and there's always going to be customers

or there is no company who's talking to

the customers who has insight into where

the customers are uh a colleague of mine

worked at a software company and if you

talked to their existing customers you

would make a top- down complete

bureaucratic administrative driven

software

product and what he did was he spent

time with the actual users he spent time

in their offices he spent time seeing

how they were spending their day what

lit them up and what they were afraid of

and then he figured out that if he could

serve their needs if he could address

their fears he could build an entirely

new customer base and ended up growing

the company by a factor of 20 and he

didn't need a lot of money to do this he

didn't need a lot of time to do this he

needed the empathy to understand

customers my first job at sper software

in 1983 on Christmas Day I didn't have

anything to do and I went in to answer

the customer service calls because in

those days voicemail hadn't been

invented yet and no one else was working

that day we made games for 10-year-olds

on Christmas a lot of people were going

to call for help and I was the only

person there for eight hours answering

the phone and for the next six months I

knew more more about our customers than

anybody else on my team because before

that and after that only the customer

service people answered the phone not

the marketing people but I knew what was

bothering them I knew what they were

afraid of so my best advice for you is

get closer to the

customers that's always always great

great advice uh getting closer to to

customers if you ever ever worked with

Proctor and Gamble they would always

take their agencies and us creatives we

always had to go out and hang out with

uh customers it was actually really

really fascinating uh listening to

people talking about um uh washing

dishes I mean it sounds banal but

actually it was incredibly insightful um

that's great and we have a question uh

coming out of the uh one of the the

Portuguese chat uh from matus um how do

I tell my story um about a brand or

service without it kind of sounding

promot tional how do you sort of get

that

balance think about a brand you

love are they

promotional they are to some people

they're just not to

you that think about a uh an elected

official that you are in favor of are

they promotional are they a hle not to

you just to other people that we

redefine the message based on how it

feels to us if people think you're

coming off as promotional you're either

talking to the wrong people or talking

to the wrong people in the wrong way

that what we are trying to do here is

say here I made this and if it's not for

you forgive me for bothering you but

here I made this creates a level of

tension because they're not sure what it

is but but if it's not for them then

it's a hassle and this gets back to

finding the Right audience are there 10

people that you can tell your story to

that would be glad you did because if

there aren't you need a better story if

there are what happens after those 10

people hear it do they tell their

friends right how is it that you heard

about Google because I promise you

didn't hear about Google from their

sponsorship of the Portuguese national

soccer team because they didn't sponsor

the team they ran no ads at all for

years and years and years how did you

find out about Google you found out

about it because someone else told

you great thank you uh we have a

question uh moving on rapidly we have a

question from Sheila asks what are your

thoughts on consumer engagement

especially Seas consumer engagement and

marketing as a

service as a

thing I've never heard that expression

before so I would love to answer it but

but if she could if she could clarify I

will do a better job she she could you

come back in the questions I have a lot

of questions so perhaps you can write

the question a couple times just repeat

it so I can see it uh when it uh comes

out um and then we have um uh from

memorabilia Cafe uh an interesting

thought about the Super Bowl um taking a

different point of view um do you think

the Super Bowl commercials actually

represent something to do with about it

being a tradition about people coming

together to watch a game uh it's a prime

time launch um and it's something

everyone will be talking about uh and it

involves families coming together and

people watching a a sort of a sport

being a sort of a

celebration um what would your take be

on seeing the the Super Bowl in that

light well so it's a lottery ticket and

frankly I don't care how much money

anheiser Bush wastes on the Super Bowl

it doesn't matter to me whatsoever I'm

talking about the Super Bowl as a

metaphor and a metaphor that says you

should buy an expensive lottery ticket

because maybe the masses will think it's

a great idea because every year maybe

one or two Brands wins that Lottery but

that's like saying we're going to post

clever things on Twitter and maybe we'll

have an Oreo moment that goes viral

that's not a plan that's buying a

lottery ticket the plan the deliberate

stepwise plan is what Patagonia did

right Patagonia said there's a very

specific group of people we can live a

story a story that they will tell other

people about a story filled with status

and affiliation a story that's genuine

generative that contributes and last for

years and they built a company worth

billions of dollars and they never

bought a lottery ticket not one lottery

ticket and the same thing is true for

somebody who wants to make it as a jazz

musician maybe just maybe you'll record

kind of blue and sell four million

record albums

unlikely on the other hand if you can

build a following like my friend Silla

May little Club then a bigger Club then

the Blue Note then a bigger club and

you're showing up for the people who

want to hear you you can have a career

and so what I am arguing for no matter

how big your marketing needs are is you

shouldn't be buying lottery

tickets

because someone's going to win the

lottery but it's not going to be

you interesting perspective except kind

of they they kind of hit Lucky in a way

managing to achieve that status yeah not

a not a sort of a strategy um sad Tim is

uh uh ter termy pardon me uh asks are

nonprofits uh more altruistic than uh

regular corporations how does

transformation and change of nonprofits

differ from those of businesses that

operate for

profit okay so in six weeks I am

launching a a major software project for

nonprofits and so I'm sping a lot of

time with them I've been a

philanthropist for a very long time my

parents grew up with nonprofit

nonprofits are a

system and again self-interest is

different than selfish but everybody who

works in a nonprofit

consistently is still making decisions

from self-interest the system is still

based on what keeps the system going and

many of the nonprofits that I admire

have been doing this for a long time and

the change they make is really

significant but that doesn't mean that

every single person and every single

nonprofit is sitting around being as

altruistic as they possibly can we're

still focused on

self-interest and so you know when Scott

Harrison built charity water which has

raised a quarter of a billion US dollars

in just 20 or 25 years he did it by

having a group of people who need in

this case water he's helped millions of

people not die another group of people

who seek status and affiliation on the

internet in exchange for donating money

and he's created that opportunity for

them and then a team internally where

people have room to grow and so if all

of the pillars of what you're

constructing feed each other and fuel

each other you can build a nonprofit

that lasts and so I guess to get to the

heart of your question nonprofits are

still marketers they're here to make a

change happen they need voluntary

participation they cannot force anyone

to do anything but when they can figure

out who they're here to serve and the

change they seek to make they can get

out of their own way and make it

happen great um lots of questions thank

you so much guys I'm trying my best to

include as many as possible uh I feel

very spoed for Choice uh in presenting

them um we have a question from uh

Tatiana who says

um how do you bring your best to a

client that sells a product that doesn't

match your

values all right I love this question

great

question here we go when you choose your

customers you choose your future you can

write that down if you want when you

choose your customers you choose your

future if you build a business with

cranky customers who always want to

bargain who need to call you in the

middle of the night who complain about

what you do who don't tell the others

then that's how you're going to spend

your

days you don't have to have this

customer you just have to have a

customer and it turns out that

organizations that do the best are

particular about their customers that if

you can fire the customers that are

wasting your time or you're breaking

your heart you will now have a space to

replace them with the kind of customer

you can be proud of and when customers

come to see that you are the kind of

person organization that is willing to

fire a bad customer they will behave

better and that changes everything

because now you are Partners you are not

someone who's just being told what to do

sooner or later we have to realize we

don't get tomorrow over again and

if you're being asked to work for an oil

company or somebody who's doing

something that you are ashamed

of if you keep saying yes that's how

you're going to spend the rest of your

days what I mean by not racing to the

bottom doesn't just mean don't lower

your price it also means pick your

customers wow great great answer when

when you choose your customers you

choose your future what a a great a

great line to remember if I have to say

I'm always envious of those Boutique

have been working in big Network

agencies I'm always very envious to

those small boutique agencies who kind

of do what you say they turn clients

away and the more they turn them away

they more they queue

up yeah exactly which is uh which is

amazing um lots lots of questions here

so um Arena asks how to cut through an

organization's mindset of measuring

success by getting massive numbers that

don't necessarily mean anything um but

rather a in more uh aiming smaller and

more

meaningfully yeah so we've been talking

about this and I'm really glad you're

bringing it up again so there's this

idea of false proxies and I write about

this in the book the song of

significance false proxies are easy

measures that aren't really relevant so

if you get into an accident in the

kitchen and you cut your

finger and you go to the doctor and they

take your temperature that's not really

helpful because you're bleeding what

your temperature is right now isn't the

problem the problem is you're bleeding

it's a false proxy easy to measure that

if you hire people because they look

like you they have similar backgrounds

they talk like you they have a similar

cast or because they're Charming you are

using false proxies to associate that

with success at work even though they

don't have anything to do with each

other

the thing you're highlighting is that

some organizations use big numbers as a

proxy but it's false so when I was VP at

Yahoo uh the homepage of Yahoo was the

homepage of the internet in 1999 it was

by far the most visited page on the

entire internet and there was an ad on

the top of the homepage that ad was sold

out a year in advance there was no good

reason to buy that ad because it was

undifferentiated garbage traffic at a

premium you were paying extra to reach

everybody you'd be much better off

buying 10 cheaper ads that each reached

on10th the number of people but were the

right people for the right

reason and it really bothered me and I

wondered about it a lot why was anyone

buying that ad and the answer is what

will I tell my boss you could buy that

ad and tell your boss you had just

bought the internet you could tell your

boss you bought the most popular one the

Super Bowl of Internet ads every single

day you could buy that ad and that's

what's happening at your company is it's

a system and the system is based often

on false proxies so the shift is to have

a conversation about who's it for and

what's it for what are we actually

seeking to measure are we trying are we

running ads to make a profit or are we

running ads to make noise if we're

running ads to make a profit would you

be interested in seeing a one-page

report that shows the profitability of

this ad versus that ad if someone says

no now you understand how resilient the

system is because they don't want to

know they just want to keep doing what

they're doing and you can't change their

mind if the answer is yes now you've got

a new proxy in place a more accurate

proxy the reason we ran the ads is to

make a profit and so um I just read

about a company uh oh a division of

danan that makes yogurt and they tested

something last year an anti-s Super Bowl

campaign that runs everywhere but on the

Super Bowl and they measured it

completely and accurately and they

figured out that in certain segments it

doubled their market share because

instead of spending money on TV ads they

spent money in the supermarket to get

more shelf space

around the big game well that focus on

the correct

proxy cost the market share of somebody

who was buying tv ads instead over time

if you have the right proxies you're

going to come out ahead so the antidote

to what you're talking about is not to

highlight the

symptom but to highlight the

conversation about proxies can we agree

that we want accurate proxies and if you

want more on this Michael Lewis's great

book Moneyball is all about this because

the way Moneyball the way baseball used

to work is the scouts were using a false

proxy did this person look like a

baseball player what was their uh

batting average and what they figured

out what Billy Bean figured out is the

actual proxy of would you make it in the

major leagues is what's your on base

percentage which was a statistic no one

was looking at because his Scouts were

the only Scouts looking at it were able

to get all these players for cheap and

they made it all the way to the World

Series with a tiny budget because they

had the right proxy so let's have a

conversation about proxies and then we

can talk about the

tactics that's great and that money

board is uh it's a film as well I think

I've watched the film it's it's it's a

great movie and and it and it did change

the way that uh uh the game was the

statistics were run on the game and the

way that everyone was working in the

industry it's actually it's a really

fascinating case study I'm I'm br

British so I don't really know much

about these American Sports but it was a

beautiful way you know you know as much

about baseball as I do which is this

much right right right we'll go watch a

cricket match One

Day in the UK um I've got a wonderful

question oh I've just been asked by um

our technical guys to say that you've

got over 650 people watching now so it's

gone up since the beginning which is

more than double uh the last time we

were with us so uh that that's fabulous

um from our Portuguese uh chat says how

to create a story and show the

difference between my vodka and other

brands vodka so this is a

differentiation question I

guess okay this is great and we're gon

to try to talk about Donald Bradman if

we don't get him to him today we'll get

to him next time

okay the differentiation is selfish

differentiation says I want to prove to

you I'm different than those guys

positioning is just generous it is where

do I fit in the grid so let me tell you

a couple stories about how you

differentiate wrong word how you

position

vodka one thing you could do is you

could use your entire ad budget to hire

attractive people to go into bars where

there are a lot of folks and loudly

order your brand of vodka and over time

your brand of vodka would be seen as the

one that attractive people are drinking

in public bars don't laugh this built a

brand of vodka that's worth hundreds of

millions of dollars another thing that

you could do is you could hire uh Bob

dorf and he could invent a cocktail that

uses your vodka and you could spend

money promoting the cocktail and give it

a

reputation and people who want the

authentic real version of that cocktail

would need to buy your vodka another

thing you could do is you could partner

with a celebrity who's been in lots of

superhero movies and drinking this vodka

could make people feel like a celebrity

notice none of these are about in a

blind taste test which vodka taste

better because no one drinks vodka

blindfolded we are engaging in this

thing socially and we are engaging in

this transaction with our emotions so

vodka is a perfect example of this

because most of the Vodka as far as I'm

told is made in one

Factory it's about the story that we're

buying not the actual item itself

because the item and the story are

inextricably linked so this is a magical

opportunity if you've chosen to be in

this business to realize you're in the

storytelling business what are the axes

where is there a space where someone

might want to be in this place and

there's nothing for them go be there

great thank you I love that that com

positioning is generous differentiation

is selfish what a great uh a great uh

line to remember uh I I I want to ask

this question because Sasha uh

rosenstark has uh with so much passion

and determination asked this question

several times as it's been going down uh

the feed uh and sash yes you I did notes

to try and say it that we managed to get

to it um and we always have to have an

agricultural question I think it's

becoming a tradition after the last

session so Sasha asks how to spread

change in agriculture considering that

people in Agri agriculture uh are not so

open to change and they're quite

conservative I guess the lessons for

probably a bunch of Industries here oh

yeah the metaphor is real the change is

not your friend if you are a farmer if

the weather changes if the soil changes

if anything changes it's not good you

want it to be just like it was the best

year you ever had because that's how you

engage on the other hand the most

important adopters of Technology over

the last hundred years all the way back

to the Green Revolution all the way back

to GMO and to different kinds of

tractors and drip irrigation have been

Farmers Farmers aren't anti- change

they're anti- trauma and and so what

happens is how do you have the

conversations occur so I spent time with

Western seed in Kenya and one thing that

you'll notice if you drive around

Nebraska or parts of the central United

States as you're driving through Farm

Fields there are rows and rows of corn

with signs on them each a different seed

and these are demonstration plots and

what they do is they just bring Farmers

by all year to look at this seed versus

that seed they're not asking them to be

Pioneers they're saying we just grew

only a mile from where you live these

kinds of seeds which one is better for

you and the challenge that Western seed

had in Kenya is the farmers weren't

talking to each other in Iowa in

Nebraska the farmers talk to each other

all the time because they know they're

not competing with each other they're

competing with other places their

neighbors are their friends and what was

happening in the Ken farming Community

is you kept it private so the big

insight for Western seed is introduce

the farmers to each other because when

the farmers meet each other they will

tell each other about the innovations

that are working for them and that is

how change happens in conservative

communities not because you told people

it was a good idea but because they told

each

other great um fabulous I think we

probably have quite a lot of time for

just one um final question um how do you

know if someone really cares or just

pretends to care um sorry this is from

Anita I should have said Anita thank you

for your question how do you know if

someone really cares or just pretends to

care uh because they just know it's a

good marketing uh

strategy I think authenticity is

overrated I think everybody pretends to

care I think everybody shows up at some

point either as the person they feel

like being in that moment or the person

they would like to be seen as so you

might not have felt like putting on an

outfit or shaving or going to work you

might not have felt like smiling at the

next customer you might not have felt

like doing the best surgery of your

career but that's what you promised you

would do and so you do it that we care

about consistency more than we care

about authenticity so if someone shows

up and shows up and shows up and keeps

their promises I don't care whether they

care or not I care that they're

consistent on the other hand if I've got

someone who cares right now but tomorrow

is distracted by the next thing I don't

want to be their customer so we can see

over and over again that there is a

pattern that you can successfully run a

fast food restaurant and be a vegetarian

because it doesn't matter to me whether

you eat the hamburgers it matters to me

whether you made a promise and you kept

great that's a great place I think to

end the session because we've now come

to an end uh it mattered to me whether

you made the promise uh and you kept it

a great final thought uh Seth Gorden

thank you so much for another amazing

inspiring session uh the numbers you can

see are going up very quickly uh a lot

of people fascinated a lot of great

questions uh a lot of great chats and

comments uh on uh the chat there so

thank you so much