Webinar: Communicating with Executives Effectively by Google Group PM, Vincent Wu

Product School
17 Apr 202123:18

Summary

TLDRIn this informative presentation, Vince, a Google product manager, shares valuable insights on effectively communicating with busy executives. He emphasizes the importance of structuring communication to motivate action, understanding the executive's perspective, and being concise and direct. Vince introduces a three-step process for clear communication: starting with the answer, grouping and summarizing supporting arguments, and logically structuring the narrative. He also highlights the use of the pyramid principle for organizing ideas and suggests further reading for those interested in enhancing their communication skills.

Takeaways

  • 🎯 Prioritize communication with executives by understanding their time constraints and decision-making pressures.
  • πŸš€ The ultimate goal of effective communication is to motivate action, whether it's resources, alignment, or progress.
  • πŸ€” Consider the executive's perspective by imagining their daily workload and the need for quick, informed decisions.
  • πŸ“Š Executives often lack detailed knowledge on specific topics, relying on trust in the presenter's vision and leadership.
  • πŸ”„ Follow a simple flowchart for decision-making: importance of the topic, right people involved, and agreement with next steps.
  • πŸ’‘ Structure communication with a top-down approach: start with the conclusion or recommendation, then provide supporting details.
  • 🌟 Clarity in communication is enhanced by grouping and summarizing supporting arguments in a logical manner.
  • πŸ“ˆ Use inductive reasoning over deductive when presenting arguments for easier comprehension by the audience.
  • πŸ“ Logically structure writing by organizing ideas by time order, structural order, or degree of importance.
  • πŸ“š Follow the 'situation-complication-question-answer' pattern to tell a compelling business story that resonates with executives.
  • πŸ“– Further reading recommendations include 'The Minto Pyramid Principle' and 'The So What Strategy' for enhancing communication skills.

Q & A

  • What is the ultimate purpose of effectively communicating with busy executives?

    -The ultimate purpose of effectively communicating with busy executives is to motivate action, such as securing resources, gaining alignment, or obtaining approval for proposals.

  • What is a common challenge faced by product managers when presenting to executives?

    -A common challenge is that product managers often have to deal with executives who are pressed for time and may not have the opportunity to go through all the details presented, leading to potential derailment in meetings and ineffective communication.

  • How does Vince suggest structuring communications to busy executives?

    -Vince suggests using a top-down structure, starting with the answer to the executive's question first, followed by supporting arguments. This approach is counterintuitive for many but is effective for busy executives who prefer quick access to conclusions.

  • What are the three steps to improve communication with executives?

    -The three steps are: 1) Start with the answer to the executive's question, 2) Group and summarize supporting arguments, and 3) Logically structure your writing.

  • Why is using inductive reasoning recommended over deductive reasoning when presenting arguments?

    -Inductive reasoning is recommended because it states the conclusion upfront and is easier for the reader to absorb. It requires less effort to comprehend and allows the reader to follow the argument more easily.

  • What is the 'pyramid principle' mentioned in the script?

    -The pyramid principle is a method of structuring communication where ideas are arranged in a hierarchical pattern, with the most important point at the top and supporting details below it. It ensures that at any level of the pyramid, there is a summary of the ideas grouped below.

  • What is the recommended number of ideas to present in a group?

    -The recommended number of ideas in a group is three, as it has been found to be an effective number for persuading senior personnel and making the presentation clear and memorable.

  • How can the 'mutually exclusive collectively exhaustive' (MECE) principle be applied in structuring communication?

    -The MECE principle ensures that the ideas presented are logically grouped without overlap and that nothing has been left out. It helps in avoiding confusion and maintaining clarity in the communication.

  • What are the common patterns for structuring a storyline in communication?

    -Common patterns include action plans for solving problems, pitches for proposing ideas, choosing among alternatives, and updates framed in red-green-yellow status across projects.

  • What additional resources does Vince recommend for further reading on structured communication?

    -Vince recommends 'The Minto Pyramid Principle' by Barbara Minto and 'The So What Strategy' as additional resources for further reading on structured communication and effective storytelling in business contexts.

  • How does Vince describe the executive's thought process when reviewing presentations?

    -Vince describes the executive's thought process as a 'busy executive stop process' where they quickly assess if the topic is important, if the right people are working on it, and if they agree with the next steps. This process is based on trust and leadership, with executives either trusting the presenter to execute or considering a change in leadership.

Outlines

00:00

πŸ—£οΈ Effective Communication with Busy Executives

This paragraph introduces the topic of effective communication with executives who have limited time and patience. Vince, a product manager at Google, shares insights from his experience and mentors. The goal of communication is to motivate action, and understanding the executive's perspective is crucial. Executives are often the least informed due to their time constraints, and the 'busy executive stop process' is introduced as a flowchart for decision-making. The importance of trust and leadership in executive-level communication is emphasized.

05:01

πŸ“ˆ Structuring Communication for Maximum Impact

The paragraph discusses the importance of structuring communication in a top-down manner, starting with the answer to the executive's question and then listing supporting arguments. This counterintuitive approach aligns with the executive's preference for big-picture thinking and quick information processing. The use of a pyramid structure for organizing ideas is introduced, with the punchline at the top, followed by supporting material. The importance of clarity in the punchline and the persuasiveness of directness are highlighted, along with the need to consider the executive's perspective when answering questions.

10:02

πŸ” Enhancing Persuasiveness through Logical Grouping

This section delves into the art of grouping and summarizing supporting arguments to enhance persuasiveness. It explains the pyramid principle and the two major ways to group ideas: deductive and inductive reasoning. The paragraph advocates for inductive reasoning, as it presents the conclusion upfront and is easier for the reader to follow. The importance of structuring ideas in a logical and mutually exclusive, collectively exhaustive manner is emphasized, along with the recommendation to present three reasons for maximum impact.

15:02

πŸ“ The Art of Logical Writing Structure

The paragraph focuses on the final step of logically structuring writing to ensure that ideas within each group are coherent and follow a logical order. Various methods of ordering ideas, such as time order, structural order, and degree order, are discussed. The universal appeal of storytelling is highlighted, and the paragraph suggests structuring business communication like a story, with a clear situation, complication, question, and answer. The importance of practice in mastering these communication techniques is reiterated.

20:03

πŸ“š Further Reading and Conclusion

In the concluding paragraph, the speaker wraps up the presentation by reiterating the importance of keeping the executive's decision-making process in mind and structuring communication with a top-down approach. The speaker also provides further reading recommendations for those interested in improving their communication skills, including 'The Minto Pyramid Principle' and 'The So What Strategy'. The presentation ends on a hopeful note, aiming to have provided valuable insights for effective communication with busy executives.

Mindmap

Keywords

πŸ’‘Communication

The process of transferring information or ideas through speaking, writing, or using some other medium. In the context of the video, effective communication is crucial for engaging busy executives, where the presenter must convey their message concisely and persuasively to achieve the desired action or response.

πŸ’‘Executives

High-ranking individuals in an organization who make important decisions and have significant responsibilities. The video script discusses the challenges of communicating with executives due to their limited time and the need for them to make quick decisions based on the information presented.

πŸ’‘Product Manager

A professional role responsible for guiding the development and success of a product or product line. In the video, Vince's experience as a product manager at Google for 10 years provides credibility to his advice on communicating with executives.

πŸ’‘Mentors

Individuals who provide guidance, support, and knowledge to help others grow professionally or personally. In the video, Vince acknowledges the influence of his mentors and colleagues in shaping his understanding of effective communication with busy executives.

πŸ’‘Trust

A feeling of confidence in the reliability, truth, or ability of someone. In the context of the video, trust is a fundamental element in the relationship between product managers and executives, where the latter must have confidence in the前者's ability to execute and deliver results.

πŸ’‘Leadership

The ability to guide, inspire, and influence a group of people towards achieving a common goal. Leadership is a key quality that executives look for in the individuals they interact with, as it indicates the capacity to drive projects forward effectively.

πŸ’‘ι‡‘ε­—ε‘”εŽŸη† (Pyramid Principle)

A method for structuring communications from the most important point to the least, creating a logical hierarchy of ideas. The video uses this principle to illustrate how to present information in a way that is clear and easily digestible for executives.

πŸ’‘Vision

A clear picture in one's mind of what the future should look like and the direction in which one is headed. In the video, having a clear vision is essential for aligning executives with the goals and strategies of a project or product.

πŸ’‘Alignment

The process of ensuring that different parts of an organization or different stakeholders are working towards the same goals. In the context of the video, alignment is critical for gaining executive support and resources for initiatives.

πŸ’‘Ability

The possession of the qualities or skills necessary to do something successfully. In the video, the ability refers to the capability of the team working on a project, which executives must trust in order to approve and support the project's progression.

πŸ’‘Action Plan

A detailed series of steps outlined to achieve a specific goal or objective. In the video, an action plan is what the presenter must effectively communicate to the executive, ensuring that the steps are clear, concise, and actionable.

Highlights

The ultimate purpose of effectively communicating with busy executives is to motivate action.

Executives are extremely pressed for time, running from one meeting to another with minimal preparation time.

Product managers are accustomed to pre-reading long and nuanced documents, which does not work for executives.

The 'busy executive stop process' involves assessing the importance of the topic, the right people working on it, and agreement with the next steps.

At the executive level, almost everything is a trust and leadership problem.

Communication should be structured in a top-down manner, starting with the conclusion or answer to the executive's question.

The key to effective communication is to demonstrate both a clear vision and strong leadership ability.

The 'pyramid principle' suggests grouping ideas in a hierarchical structure to aid memorability and effectiveness.

Inductive reasoning is recommended over deductive reasoning for structuring arguments in communication with executives.

The 'magic number' of ideas in a group is three for maximum persuasiveness and clarity.

Ideas should be mutually exclusive and collectively exhaustive to avoid confusion and ensure completeness.

Logically structuring writing involves ordering ideas by time, structure, or degree of importance.

Stories follow a pattern of situation, complication, question, and answer, which is effective in engaging executives.

The Minto Pyramid Principle is a classic resource for understanding and applying effective communication structures.

The 'So What? Strategy' offers insights into leveraging classic storylines for impactful communication.

Practicing the principles of structured communication will help in noticing patterns and improving communication skills over time.

Transcripts

play00:01

hi there if you've been wondering about

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how to communicate effectively

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with executives who have limited time

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and patience you've come to the right

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place

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this is a presentation about exactly

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that we'll be going over some big

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picture ideas about how to structure

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your communications

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and how to think about the process my

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name is vince

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and i've been a product manager at

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google for the past 10 years

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and currently i'm based in our offices

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in zurich

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switzerland first of all

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credit where credit is due the ideas

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here are from many great minds

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and so i want to acknowledge and thank

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my mentors

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former bosses colleagues and other

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amazing product managers

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who i've learned from over the years

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i want to start with our goals

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what's the purpose of effectively

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communicating with busy executives

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i'd like to convince you that the

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ultimate purpose at the exact levels

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is to motivate action maybe you want

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resources

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maybe you need alignment maybe you need

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some runway whatever it is it's useful

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to jump into the shoes

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of the executive what does their day

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look like we'll talk more about this but

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to start with

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executives are extremely pressed for

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time they run from

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one meeting to another they make

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decisions with minimal to no time to

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prepare

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while at the working level product

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managers in our cross-functional teams

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our cups

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are accustomed to pre-read maybe long

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and nuanced documents

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that does not work for executives they

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simply don't have the time

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preparing for exec review meetings is

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something product managers do all the

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time of course

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there's nothing as sad as seeing a

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product manager get derailed

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in the meeting run out of time before

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going through what they really wanted to

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go through

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and then they get kicked out of the

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conference room that has certainly

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happened to me

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now it's not a stretch to say that an

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exec is most often the least informed

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person

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in the room no matter what the topic is

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it's just impossible

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to spend enough time on any particular

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topic when you're

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at that vantage point so what is the

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busy executive stop process then well

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here i present to you a simple flowchart

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that has proven true for me well first

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things first

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uh is this an important topic if not

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should we be doing something else

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second does it seem like the right

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people are working on it if not

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new leaders are probably needed and

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finally

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do i agree with the next steps if not

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probably the best course of action is to

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send the folks back to try again

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and if yes approve the situation and

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move on to the next topic

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the point is that at an exact level

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almost everything is a trust

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and leadership problem they either trust

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you to get it done

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or they change leadership they certainly

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don't have the time to do it themselves

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so how do busy executives answer the

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questions

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in the flow chart well they are

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listening for key things that make them

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believe in both your vision

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and your leadership ability to get it

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done demonstrating all that requires

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going into the details and data of

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course

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but before we get too much into the

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weeds it's useful to consider the bigger

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buckets

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vision does the team know where they are

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going and how they will get there

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alignment do stakeholders agree you know

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as an executive would

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i agree with the direction ability

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do i trust these people that are working

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on this project do they have the

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capability

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to execute and to make progress need

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what do they need for me to continue and

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to be successful

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is it simply endorsement is it more

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resources

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now so far i haven't talked about any

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communication tips

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just yet you might be wondering whether

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communication skills makes a difference

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well let me start with a rather silly

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example

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here we have a stream of consciousness

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john connor called to say that he can't

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make the meeting at three o'clock

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kyle reese says he doesn't mind making

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it later or even tomorrow

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but not before 10 30 and meanwhile

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kate's admin says that brewster won't

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return from nyc until tomorrow

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late the conference room is booked

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tomorrow but free thursday

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thursday at 11 looks to be a good time

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is that okay for you wow

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i think a natural response to a

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paragraph like this is probably what

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what did i just read

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now let's look at structuring this

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better

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could we reschedule today's meeting to

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thursday at 11 o'clock

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this would be more convenient for john

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and kyle it would also permit kate to be

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president

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it is also the only other time this week

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that the conference room is quick

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it's free now what just happened well

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we put the conclusion or the question up

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front

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no preamble no long buildup all of that

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all of that comes afterwards as

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supporting material

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now visually we might represent things

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like this

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to communicate in a structured way with

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a busy executive you start with the

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answer

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to the executive's question first and

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then list your supporting arguments

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this top down structure is

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counterintuitive

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for many of us because we like to talk

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about the process

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of which we got to the answer so for

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many people it's natural to build up to

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the conclusion if you will

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by first reciting all the facts

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recounting all of the analyses that have

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been done

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or reviewing all of those supporting

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ideas then only after you've talked

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about all that

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you get to the punch line

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so this silly example would

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visually look like this right so you

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have the answer at the very beginning we

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schedule through thursday 11 o'clock and

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then you have the reasons

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underneath

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now let's look at something that you

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might imagine seeing at work

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okay so when we look at the company

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sales data we see that there was

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has been a decline over the years we

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also face increased competition

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even though we introduced new features

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two years ago and we launched the

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product

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these new features required a new

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factory to be built which also increased

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costs

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we have to increase market share to

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attain an economy of scale

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again uh you know the natural response

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to this is

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what what did i just read right uh what

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what is the action here

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okay well let's let's fix this

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uh this would be a much better

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structured way of doing it you start

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with the punchline

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to regain profitability we have to

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improve market share by cutting prices

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and then you add the supporting material

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lower prices will increase sales

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lower prices versus competitive

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competitors will increase our market

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share

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and finally increased volume helps us

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create economies of scale right so

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everything sort of makes sense

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now this may look simple and obvious

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but establishing clarity in the punch

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line takes practice to do well

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consider the difference between the two

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statements here

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the first one is something that seems

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reasonable at first glance and i i've

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i've done things like this where i say

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oh i want to update the leadership

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on the progress right and

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uh what is missing is that the action

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you want to motivate

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so what's what what what is it that you

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want to achieve

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the second sentence here is much better

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the goal is much clearer and sometimes

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you know you really just want to give an

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update which is fine but still i

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challenge that the action could be to

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for example endorse the plan to proceed

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as planned

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okay so i realize all of this seems

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rather obvious and

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you know when you put things side by

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side uh it seems like well obviously you

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would

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present things in a much clearer way

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right so are there concrete steps to get

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from

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before to after in fact yes this is what

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this next section is about

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let me show you three steps that will up

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your game

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now to follow the principles that i just

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talked about i'll go straight to the

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answer

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so step one start with the answer first

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step two

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group and summarize your supporting

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arguments and step three

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logically structure your writing

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let's jump right into step one when an

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executive

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asks you a question what should we do

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you start your response with

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you should do x very crisply and

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directly that's the way to do it

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now only then after you've answered

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should you present your supporting ideas

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why well first you want to maximize your

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time within

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an exec audience executives are busy

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they

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are perpetually short on time and

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they're used to processing lots of

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information quickly

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and they obviously get impatient when

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they feel like something

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or some you know someone isn't getting

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to the point

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to get most of your short time with an

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executive you want to make your

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recommendation

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first and foremost in some cases

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the executive may already mental

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mentally be at the conclusion you want

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them to reach

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in which case you know they'll just

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accept your recommendation and move on

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in which case problem solved

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second many executives often think in a

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top-down manner they want to focus on

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the big picture

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and in this case the big picture means

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the answer

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they want to get bogged down by details

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right by delivering your recommendation

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in the answer first format you are

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fitting into the executive's mental

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model

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and allowing them to quickly process

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your recommendation

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finally i found that you're a lot more

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persuasive when you're just direct right

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by answering

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the executive's question first you sound

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more assertive and confident

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you're not searching for reasons or

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words you're not wavering

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you're just directly answering the

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question and that's what executives

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enjoy and want now

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there are a few things that are

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important to consider in this step

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first of all are you sure you're

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answering the right question bear in

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mind that your perspective

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and the execs perspective on things

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could be vastly different

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for instance you know while you're

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looking at a house they may be looking

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at an

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entire city it's important to calibrate

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your answer with their perspective

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and understand the context for the

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question

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another way of thinking about this is

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how do you keep the exact attention

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when you're answering people in general

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only engage when they're learning

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laughing or disagreeing with you so it's

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a useful way

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it's a useful way of thinking from the

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execs point of view

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now that may seem a little bit abstract

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so let me

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go through an example of an answer that

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goes from bad to good

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the first answer here isn't super useful

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uh we are concerned about meeting the

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new manufacturing standards this is

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basically just what everyone knows

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already

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and then it progresses down to become

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better and better right we should take

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steps to meet the new manufacturing

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standards which begs the question well

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what steps

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we can change our processes to meet the

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new manufacturing standards

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well the obvious question will be well

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in what way

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and finally as we get to four and five

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we're getting to the details now

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we should devote extra resources to

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full-time heads now to redesign our

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processes

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to meet the new manufacturing standards

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this is very clear now

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we could do this even better though if

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we add deadline at the very end so that

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the last example here is

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a very good summary

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and it's a good punch line

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all right so let's move on to step two

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which is to group and summarize your

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supporting arguments

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our audience whether they're listening

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or they're reading

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will naturally begin to group and

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summarize their arguments and ideas in

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order to remember them

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so you might as well help them do it and

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make your overall recommendation more

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effective and memorable

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in the diagram that we used before the

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key is that ideas form

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a pyramid shape if you will under a

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single thought

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the single thought is the answer to the

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executive's question

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and underneath that single thought

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you're supposed to group and summarize

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the next level of supporting ideas and

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arguments

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then for each supporting id and argument

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you can go even further right so it's a

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recursive thing where you

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talk about the supporting arguments and

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you have a level underneath until you

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get to the get to all of your arguments

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now for folks who've been in consulting

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this will not

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uh this would look very familiar this is

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called the pyramid principle

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the idea is that at any level of the

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pyramid there must be a summary of the

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ideas grouped below them

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now it turns out that there are two

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major ways to group ideas

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and this may not be super intuitive so

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it's good to

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walk through them the first way of

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grouping ideas

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is deductive reasoning deduction

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[Music]

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is the reasoning process of drawing a

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logical conclusion from general

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arguments

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so for the example that we have here hey

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birds fly

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i'm a bird well i'm a bird therefore i

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fly

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makes sense right now another way to

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draw logical conclusions is by inductive

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reasoning and this takes specific

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information and makes a broader

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generalization the conclusion of an

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inductive argument

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is considered to be only probable

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because

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you are listing out the evidence

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underneath which may not be exhaustive

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now that may seem like a flaw but a

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great advantage of using induction

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for arguments is that the reader can

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easily follow since the conclusion

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is clear from the very beginning

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so so the inductive reasoning is

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therefore

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recommended for making arguments in the

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top part of your pyramid

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now here is a visual comparison of the

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two ways

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of grouping ideas as mentioned on the

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left a deductive

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takes the user on a journey right a

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leads to b leads to c

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and therefore we arrive at d right

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inductive reasoning states the answer

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upfront the answer is d

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and it's supported by a b and c right so

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you see the difference between the two

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now this is important so it's worth

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repeating i wrote this all out now

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given a choice use induction rather than

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deduction because

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uh it is easier for the reader to absorb

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it's less effort to comprehend the

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tendency

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with folks is to want to present your

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thinking in the order that you developed

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it

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which is generally a deductive process

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here's an example to illustrate the

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difference

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now uh this is the deductive example and

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it's actually very well structured right

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so

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we use three criteria to judge whether

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to buy their warehouse you know that's a

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b and c

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this building meets those criteria um

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yeah so therefore we should buy right so

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it makes a lot of logical sense

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now in contrast here is what

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the logic looks like if we structure

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this in the inductive

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way so here we state the recommendation

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up front by the pacific avenue warehouse

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because it meets our criteria

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and here is our criteria it's on the

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corner it's larger than 5000 square feet

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it's under 10 dollars a square foot as

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you can see it's much clearer

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when information and recommendations are

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structured this way

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now there are uh a few additional things

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to consider as you go through

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step two first it just so happens that

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the magic number of ideas in a group is

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three

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right uh there's uh i'm sure there's

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scientific reasoning behind it

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uh but you know what i found is that

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whenever you're trying to persuade a

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senior person to do something

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always present three reasons not two not

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four three

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uh i'll just say that you know whenever

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i force myself to structure in this way

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i've gotten people's attention

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and i sound like i know what i'm talking

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about so it has worked for me

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the other thing to consider is whether

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your thoughts are structured logically

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and one test is whether the ideas truly

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belong together

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and nothing has been left out this is

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called mutually exclusive collectively

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exhaustive

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now this is what it might look like

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visually if

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things aren't working you know very well

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for example if your ideas are not

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mutually exclusive

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you risk confusing the audience you

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might wonder hey uh

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you know haven't you listed the same

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thing already like isn't there some

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overlap

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when your ideas aren't collectively

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exhaustive your audience starts

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wondering what is missing hey there's

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obviously

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a big piece missing here are there other

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things that you're missing

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and you don't want that to derail the

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conversation

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all right finally we get to step three

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which is logically structuring your

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writing

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you want to ensure that the ideas you

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bring together under each group actually

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belong together

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by the same level of importance and

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follow some logical structure

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there are a few ways of logically

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ordering ideas that belong in a safe

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group

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for example you could do the time order

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right if there's a sequence of events

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that form a cause and effect

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relationship

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you should present ideas in time order

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another way of structuring

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is the structural order break a singular

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thought down into its parts and you

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ensure that it's covering all the major

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supporting ideas

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and finally there's also a degree order

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you can present supporting ideas in rank

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order of importance

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most to least importance now uh

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over the overarching uh issue though is

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everyone loves a good story and execs

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are no exception

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and it turns out that stories all always

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follow the same pattern you know there's

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a there's a situation

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right there's a complication or a

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problem and there's a key

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question that you want to answer and

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finally it is answered and everyone is

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happy

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so your introduction should be

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structured exactly like a story

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in practice this is what it might look

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like the introduction starts with a

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situation what the audience would agree

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to be true

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it anchors the audience in a specific

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time and space and the chronology

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is clear

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so just like you do with stories it's

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the same with

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you know business matters as well so

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every business story ever told

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that i've seen follows this pattern

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you've got situation complication

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question and answer the situation

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answers

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hey what are we talking about uh you

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know where's the starting point for the

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discussion

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the complication answer is why are we

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talking about this like why now like

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what's

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what's the big deal and then there is

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usually

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a question you know there's there's a

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question that we want to get answered

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and finally uh well what is the answer

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stated up front what's the key point

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now all of this may sound a little vague

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i realize

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so let's look at a few examples

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now here's an example of what it might

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look like if you're doing a pitch

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so in this situation uh as you know work

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in our apartment has increased twenty

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percent a year

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nevertheless in line with hq policy we

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have kept the head count to just 14

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heads the result has been overtime and

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we can work

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et cetera so uh what is the complication

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the complication is that uh we need to

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bring this

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to your attention now because the

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backlog has now reached 22 weeks

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the field is finding that unacceptable

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and we got to do something about it

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and what is the question or should i

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approve this

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and the answer is yes please approve

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now here's an example of what it might

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look like if you're choosing among

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alternatives and this happens a lot

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when you have you know options that

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you're looking at

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so in this case the situation is this

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the recent ruling that a

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300 horsepower motor is the most

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efficient for drilling oil in cool

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temperatures

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has led our largest customer to announce

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that he will switch from using a 200

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horsepower motor to our competitors

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model okay well

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what's the complication well we've got

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three possible responses

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we can a cut the prices we can b we

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engineer the

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engine to be 300 horsepower and three we

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can purpose design a new motor

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okay so what's the question the question

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is well which alternative would make

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sense

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and the answer could be any one of them

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depending on the situation

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all right so here is an example of what

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you would

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you might do if this was an update so

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the situation

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in this example is this in our last

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progress review we told you that we have

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a capacity problem

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it's a complication well you said you

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thought that this would not be a problem

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for long because you believe the

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competition is shortly going out of

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business

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he asked us to investigate and now we've

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completed our investigation

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the question is well what did we find

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the answer is

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in this case unfortunately well you

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still have a problem

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okay so let me so that was the three

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steps

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uh so let's wrap up and review some of

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the key tips that i've gone over

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first uh keep it's important to keep the

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executive start process in mind

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uh and as you know as mentioned you know

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at their level

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almost everything is a trust and

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leadership problem they either will

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trust you to get it done or change

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leadership right so this is

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a very high level way of thinking about

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this

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to communicate in a structured way with

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a busy executive you should start with

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the answer today to the

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executive's question first and then list

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your supporting arguments

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this top-down structure as i've

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mentioned will feel unnatural

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but practice makes perfect now as you

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get more practice you may start noticing

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patterns

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and communication as well

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now the specific topic may be different

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the way you create the storyline might

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be similar

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so here are a few common patterns you

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know an action plan

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explain how to solve a problem the pitch

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that i mentioned before

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choosing among alternatives updates

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and a useful way of framing this is

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usually red green yellow

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across projects

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all right well let me end with some

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further reading that might be useful if

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you're interested in in

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the first one here is the minto pyramid

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principle it's a classic by barbara

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minto

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it goes over many of these concepts and

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has

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benefited me a lot the second

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example here is the so what strategy

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this is a newer book that talks about

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patterns and the classic storylines

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you could leverage for your

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communication and i found that to be

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very useful too

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all right well thank you very much i

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hope this has been very useful

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[Music]

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