Does Input Have to Be "Comprehensible"?

Summary

本视频探讨了初学者学习日语时是否应该沉浸在自己能够理解的内容中。根据克拉申的输入假说，语言习得发生在理解之前无法理解的内容时。视频提出，对于初学者来说，理解90%的内容与理解30-40%的内容可能同样有效，甚至后者可能更有用。作者通过个人经验推测，即使只理解一小部分，也能通过不断接触新内容而快速进步。此外，强调了理解信息的重要性，而不仅仅是语法和词汇的每一个细节，并建议使用工具如维基百科和Netflix的剧集描述来提高理解度。

Takeaways

• 📚 根据克拉申的输入假说，语言习得发生在你理解了之前不懂的内容时。
• 🧩 理解是逐步的，可以部分理解句子而不理解全部，理解程度是连续的而非绝对的。
• 🌱 作为日语初学者，不必只沉浸在你已经90%理解的内容中，30-40%的理解率可能更有用。
• 🚀 即使只理解一小部分，大脑也会不断寻找并学习那些刚刚超出理解范围的新词汇和结构。
• 🤔 没有科学研究确切表明理解率的最佳水平，但个人经验和理论表明，初学者从难度较高的内容中也能快速进步。
• 🌐 理解信息比理解所有语法和词汇更为重要，克拉申强调理解信息是语言习得的关键。
• 👶 婴儿学习母语时从0%理解开始，逐渐通过大量难以理解的成人语言输入学习，这表明大脑具备从不理解到理解的能力。
• 🎯 学习者应该优先考虑材料的吸引力和参与度，而不是理解的百分比。
• 🔍 使用工具如Wikipedia剧集摘要或Netflix的每集简介，可以帮助提高对正在观看内容的信息理解。
• 🔁 理解信息的过程是无意识的，涉及复杂的大脑处理，而不必通过有意识的分析。

Q & A

什么是克拉申的输入假说？

克拉申的输入假说认为，语言习得发生在你理解了之前不理解的内容时。通过上下文线索，比如理解句子中的其他部分，你可以推断出新词汇的含义，并因此习得这个词汇。

为什么初学者在语言习得过程中可能会从理解30%的内容中受益？

初学者通过接触略高于他们水平的内容，可以不断地遇到新词汇和结构，这为他们提供了更多的机会去理解之前不理解的内容，从而促进语言习得。

为什么理解90%的内容可能不如理解30%的内容有效？

理解90%的内容可能意味着只有10%的新信息，这限制了学习新内容的机会。相比之下，理解30%的内容可能意味着有70%的新信息，为学习提供了更多机会。

为什么兴趣和参与度在语言习得中很重要？

兴趣和参与度可以增加学习者对材料的注意力和投入，这有助于提高语言习得的效率。如果学习者对材料不感兴趣，他们可能不会有足够的动力去理解和学习。

什么是克拉申所说的'理解信息'？

克拉申所说的'理解信息'是指理解所传达的整体意义，而不仅仅是语法和词汇的每一个细节。即使某些词汇和语法结构超出了学习者的理解范围，他们仍然可以通过上下文线索理解信息。

为什么说语言习得是一个非线性过程？

语言习得是一个非线性过程，因为大脑可以同时处理多个层面的信息，如语音、词汇和句法结构，而不是逐个逐步地学习。

为什么说初学者在语言习得中不需要完全理解所有内容？

初学者不需要完全理解所有内容，因为他们的大脑有能力通过上下文和其他线索来推断和学习新词汇和结构，即使他们只理解部分内容。

为什么说语言习得是一个潜意识过程？

克拉申认为语言习得是一个潜意识过程，意味着学习者不需要有意识地分析语言规则，而是通过不断的接触和使用语言，潜意识地吸收和习得语言知识。

为什么说初学者应该使用他们感兴趣的材料来学习？

使用感兴趣的材料可以提高学习者的参与度和动机，这有助于他们更好地理解和习得语言。如果材料过于简单或无聊，学习者可能不会有足够的动力去学习。

为什么说理解信息比理解每一个词汇和语法结构更重要？

理解信息可以帮助学习者抓住交流的主旨，这是语言交际的主要目的。而对每个词汇和语法结构的精确理解可以在理解信息的基础上逐渐发展。

Outlines

00:00

📚 初学者如何沉浸式学习日语

在这段视频中，讨论了初学者学习日语时是否应该沉浸在他们能够理解的内容中。根据史蒂芬·克拉申的输入假说，语言习得发生在你理解了之前不理解的内容时。视频通过举例说明，即使只理解部分内容，也能通过上下文线索来推断出整个句子的意思，从而习得语言。作者分享了自己学习日语的经验，认为对于初学者来说，理解30%到40%的内容可能比理解90%的内容更有用，因为这样可以提供更多的机会去理解之前不理解的内容。作者强调，理解是一个渐进的过程，不是非黑即白的，即使只理解一部分，也能从中学习到新的语言结构和词汇。

05:02

🧠 理解与语言习得的关系

这段内容深入探讨了理解与语言习得之间的关系。作者指出，理解并不是一个简单的是或否的问题，而是一个渐进的过程，可以是理解句子的整体意思，但不一定理解每个单词或语法结构。作者通过自己的学习经历，强调了即使在理解程度较低的情况下，也总是有机会接触到新的语言元素，并且这些新元素会不断重复出现，从而促进学习。作者认为，大脑有能力处理大量不理解的信息，并且能够从中学习，就像婴儿学习母语一样，从不理解逐渐过渡到理解。

10:02

🎯 初学者学习策略的探讨

在这部分中，作者讨论了初学者在学习日语时应采取的策略。作者认为，尽管没有科学研究明确指出哪种策略更有效，但根据个人经验和对语言习得的理解，作者推测初学者通过沉浸在难度较高的内容中可能会更快地进步。作者提出，即使只理解一小部分内容，也比完全理解的内容更有学习价值，因为这样可以不断接触到新的语言点。此外，作者还提到了保持学习材料的趣味性和参与度的重要性，因为动机和兴趣对于语言习得至关重要。最后，作者建议使用一些工具，如Wikipedia上的剧集简介，来增加对内容的理解，从而提高语言习得的效率。

Keywords

💡输入假说

输入假说（Input Hypothesis）是斯蒂芬·克拉申（Stephen Krashen）提出的一种语言习得理论，主张语言的习得是通过理解可理解输入（i+1）来实现的，即略高于学习者当前水平的语言输入。在视频中，输入假说被用来解释为何初学者在理解部分内容时仍能进行有效的语言学习，强调了即使只有部分理解，学习者也能通过上下文线索推断出新词汇或结构的含义。

💡i+1

i+1是输入假说中的一个核心概念，指的是学习者应该接收到略高于其当前语言水平的输入，以便能够理解和习得新的语言结构和词汇。视频中通过举例说明，即使是初学者，通过接触略高于他们理解水平的材料，也能够逐步提高语言能力。

💡可理解性

可理解性（Comprehensibility）在视频中指的是学习者能够理解的语言输入的程度。视频强调，即使是初学者，也应该寻找那些他们能够理解一部分的材料，因为这样的材料提供了学习新语言结构的机会。

💡沉浸式学习

沉浸式学习（Immersion）是指将学习者置于目标语言环境中，使他们不得不使用该语言进行交流和学习。视频中提到，即使是初学者，也应该尽可能地沉浸在目标语言中，即使他们一开始只能理解一小部分。

💡语言习得

语言习得（Language Acquisition）是指通过自然过程而非有意识学习获得语言能力。视频中讨论了语言习得与语言学习的区别，并强调了理解信息的重要性，以及如何通过理解来促进语言习得。

💡意识和无意识学习

意识和无意识学习（Conscious and Unconscious Learning）在视频中被提及，用来解释语言习得过程中意识和无意识的作用。视频指出，尽管学习者可能意识到他们不理解的部分，但无意识的大脑过程仍然在工作，帮助他们习得语言。

💡切割边缘

切割边缘（Cutting Edge）是克拉申理论中的一个概念，指的是学习者当前能够理解的语言水平的极限。视频中提到，学习者应该不断接触新的、略高于他们切割边缘的语言输入，以便推动语言能力的发展。

💡兴趣和参与度

兴趣和参与度（Interest and Engagement）在视频中被强调为语言学习的重要因素。视频指出，学习者应该选择他们感兴趣的材料进行学习，因为高度的参与度和兴趣可以提高语言习得的效率。

💡语言输入

语言输入（Language Input）是指学习者接收到的所有目标语言材料。视频中讨论了输入的质量对于语言习得的重要性，以及如何通过提供适当的输入来促进学习者的语言发展。

💡信息理解

信息理解（Message Comprehension）是指学习者能够理解语言输入的整体意义，而不必理解每一个词汇或语法结构。视频中提到，即使学习者只理解部分内容，也能够通过上下文线索理解整体信息，这对于语言习得是有益的。

Highlights

根据克拉申的输入假说，语言习得发生在你理解了之前不懂的内容时。

理解是习得语言的关键，而不仅仅是理解语法和词汇。

对于初学者来说，理解90%的内容与理解30-40%的内容在习得效率上可能没有显著差异。

即使只理解一小部分内容，大脑也能从中识别和学习新的语言结构。

理解的提高是一个渐进的过程，即使是从30%提高到31%也是进步。

大脑擅长从大量不理解的内容中识别出熟悉的模式和结构。

理解的深度不是简单的是或否，而是一个连续的过程。

即使只理解一小部分，也总是有机会学习新的内容。

大脑内置有从不理解到理解的策略，这是语言习得的关键。

对于初学者来说，理解程度较低的内容可能更有助于快速习得语言。

婴儿学习母语时也是从不理解开始，逐渐提高理解度。

理解信息比理解所有语法和词汇更重要。

使用工具如Wikipedia的剧集描述可以帮助提高对内容的理解。

参与度比理解程度更重要，应该优先考虑参与度。

克拉申强调理解信息的重要性，而不是语法和词汇的所有细节。

即使不能完全理解，通过上下文也能获取信息，这对语言习得是有帮助的。

总结来说，理解信息和参与度比理解的百分比更重要。

Transcripts

so as a beginner learning Japanese

should you be immersing yourself with

content which is comprehensible to you

well let's go into this a little bit so

according to stephen krashen xinput

hypothesis you acquire language when

basically you comprehend something which

you previously couldn't so if I hold up

a ball a red ball and say the English

sentence this is a red ball and let's

say for example you didn't know the

English word ball but you knew the rest

of the sentence this is a red blank then

you can probably make the inference oh

the word ball probably means ball and

now you just be due to the extra context

clue of me holding up the red ball

you're able to comprehend this sentence

comprehend that the word ball means ball

and then according to the input

hypothesis you'll be able to acquire it

so acquisition is all about

understanding things which you

previously couldn't understand so now

when we're thinking about well should

you be immersing in content which you

understand like ninety to ninety percent

of already or is it okay to immerse with

content that you only understand 30 40

50 percent of is one better than then

the other are they about the same when

we're thinking about this question we

have to think about well which one will

provide us with the most opportunities

to comprehend things which we previously

weren't able to comprehend well the

reality is that I don't know and nobody

really knows because there haven't been

any sort of scientific studies conducted

on this topic but I'm gonna talk to you

about my speculations and my theories

with this topic based off my own

experience and my models of how language

acquisition works so I actually don't

think as a beginner of Japanese this is

different once you become like late

intermediate to advanced but as a

beginner of Japanese I don't think that

it's actually any better to be

understanding 90% versus say 30 40 % and

it might actually be even more useful to

have 30 40 % when I was learning

Japanese for the entire period where I

was beginner I pretty much exclusively

immersed with content which was way

above my level you could say right I was

only understanding

probably 10 20 30 percent in the

beginning later on like 50 60 70 percent

for the first long while I almost never

understood a hundred percent because I

was watching anime and dramas and

Japanese movies which I wanted to watch

and I thought were cool I wasn't really

thinking about was it gonna be too hard

or not because everything was kind of

too hard and I found that I made very

rapid progress right it didn't seem to

be a problem that I was only

understanding 20 or 30 percent that

didn't seem to be a barrier that kept me

from progressing and the reason why this

is is because like for example when I

understood 30 percent of Japanese you

know then there was certain sets of

words and phrases which I had down pat

every single time I heard it I knew what

it meant like ah combing gonna eat you

up

so am I saying like stuff like that

every time I heard it I instantly

understood it I could not understand it

right I had completely acquired it and

my brain was very good at picking out

those pieces of language from the whole

and at any given point there was this

new layer that was just beyond my

cutting edge where I would start

noticing these words or sentence

structures right like one day I would

notice some word like maybe like Kai

said suit I would notice the word Kai

Setsu and then once I noticed it once

I'd be like oh yeah but kind of sounds

familiar I feel like I've probably heard

that before I started noticing it all

the time like multiple times per day

because I mean that's just how it works

with the baader-meinhof phenomenon right

once you notice things once then you

just start noticing it all over the

place you know you're thinking about

getting a certain type of car suddenly

you start seeing that car everywhere you

go even though you never noticed it

before you thought about maybe buying

that car that's just how kind of the

brain works and so once your brain

unlocks a word and this would happen all

the time right because your brain just

starts noticing things your brain is

always starting to notice new language

structures and patterns which are just

beyond your cutting edge and so I would

notice words like this

I use the example concepts I would just

notice where it's left or right all the

time every day there'd be three four or

five new words which I noticed for the

first time that day and once I I notice

notice them I noticed start noticing

them all the time multiple times per day

usually and so it was inevitable that I

learned the meaning of those words right

because your custom that often

eventually you just figure out what they

mean

or even if you don't wait until you

actually figured out the context you can

just look it up once get the meaning and

then you can't forget it because it just

gets reinforced every time it comes up

it's like a natural SRS and so I had no

trouble going from 30 percent to 31

percent and from 31 to 32 and it didn't

matter that I was only at 30% and there

was actually a majority that I wasn't

understanding because I was constantly

improving what I was understanding all

the time and here's the thing with

comprehensibility is that it's not a

yes-or-no thing right it's not like you

hundred percent understood an entire

sentence it's it's overall meaning how

the grammar works what the individual

vocab means it and you either understood

it yes or it was all gibberish to you

right that's not how it works

you can understand the general gist of a

sentence but not really know what some

of the individual words mean or how the

grammar is interacting you can

understand half of a sentence and note

okay this word this partisan this means

this that this is happening

grammatically but not know the other

half of the sentence right so

understanding is a very messy thing it's

not a yes/no type of type of deal and so

even if you're only understanding 30% of

like the overall language there's still

gonna be language that's on your cutting

edge all around you all the time like a

few months ago when I was learning

Chinese I do is just immersing for like

a few months and I was still at a very

low level like only understanding 20-30

percent but there was like almost

something from for my brain to do on

almost every sentence because there was

either one word in each sentence that

sounded familiar and I was thinking wait

what does that mean I feel like I've

heard that before do I know that word or

like some grammatical structure where I

was like oh wait was that the structure

I heard before like how is this going

here right so even though that I was

only understanding 30% of the total hole

I was constantly bombarded with

opportunities to learn new things and

that was what what's important right

what I mentioned at the beginning is how

much opportunities are you being given

to comprehend things which you weren't

able to comprehend before so it's this

idea that going from 30 to 31 is it's

the same amount of progress as going

from 95 to 96 and it's not necessarily

harder to do it's actually in a sense

easier to do because you're being

bombarded with so much that you don't

understand right

if you understand 98% of something and

you don't only understand 2% then you

only are presented with the opportunity

to learn that 2% and yes it might be

easier to learn that 2% because it's a

clear or what it means because you

everything surrounding the 2% is already

clear but if you only understand 50%

then half of all you're listening to is

stuff that's new to you and you have the

potential to pick up so in a way you're

you have more opportunities to learn and

like I said it's not very hard to pick

up things that are right beyond your

cutting edge and so I think having the

extra exposure to constant you don't

understand at the beginning stages might

actually lead to you picking up more

more quickly because when you think

about it babies who are learning their

l1 they start out with a 0%

comprehension right they're not

understanding 98% filling of the 2% they

understand nothing at the beginning and

they slowly work their way up given

completely incomprehensible mostly adult

input right like yeah adults speak to

babies and baby-talk but that's like 2%

or less of all their input most of their

learning happens through hearing adult

conversation and so the brain is kind of

built it has strategies built in to

learn how to work its way up the

comprehension hierarchy right from 0 to

1 2 3 4 7 5% physics percent your brain

has the tools it needs to do that

built-in and because the unconscious

mind because you know language

acquisition happens unconsciously that's

what stephen krashen tells us and what

my experience tells me your unconscious

mind doesn't work in a strict linear

fashion like your conscious mind does it

can be working on multiple issues at

once it can be working on multiple

layers of abstraction at once and so at

the very beginning part of your brain

could be working on phonetics and

parsing the differences between little

sounds part of your brain could be

dealing with what individual words mean

part of your brain could be dealing with

the sentence structure and this could be

happening simultaneously right in a kind

of parallel processing fashion because

we know that the brain does process

things like many multiple things at the

same time like psychology tells us this

and so like at the very beginning right

if you're only exposing yourself to what

you already understood that what would

that be like hello this is a pen and you

have such a limited range of input

that's all the other

the structures in your brain which are

equipped to decode full-on real language

and and extract the underlying

principles from that input it's not

going to get a chance to really activate

if your input is so thin and easy right

so I think that you can work with your

brain by replicating the process of

first language acquisition of basically

doing what your brain was built to do

which is figure out how to swim while

it's drowning you could say but then

again at the end of the day this is just

my hypothesis based off my own

experience I mean what I can tell you is

that if you immerse with things that

only you only understand 30 40 % of you

will get good and pretty quickly because

me and my other other people I know who

did a jet got good very quickly never

using basically watered down baby

materials but I can't say definitively

that's the better strategy maybe who

knows hypothetically if you always

understood 90% of your input or 95% of

effort then you would get better even

faster because the it'd be easier for

your brain to learn what was missing I

can't say that for sure but here are

some potential problems that strike me

when I think about trying to think that

other strategy I mean the biggest issue

is that I mean when you're true beginner

no content is gonna be like 90%

comprehensible right except if it was

like literally baby talk of just

individual words but I mean once you get

past that space right it's like what

Dora the Explorer Blue's Clues like

those are the shows that we're talking

about and for most adults that's

extremely boring and tedious to watch

and engagement is extremely important

stephen krashen

and Steve Kaufman talked to talk about

this all the time your attitude and your

engagement and your motivation to

comprehend what you're listening to and

your actual interest in it greatly

depend how much you're going to acquire

and so even if hypothetically going from

95 to 96 was more efficient than going

from 30 to 31 which I said there's no

real reason to assume that that's the

case but even if it were then it still

might be the better strategy for to go

from 30 to 31 if that allows you to be

immersing with content that you're

actually engaged with right because it's

pretty much extremely unlikely that

you're gonna get anywhere if you're

forcing yourself to immerse with

materials that you don't like unless

you're

meditation master which pretty much none

of us are and then besides interest

right like how are you going to find

these materials like that would mean

that you're constantly looking for the

material that's perfectly adjusted to

your level even though you're getting

better all the time and I think that

it's not a very realistic strategy in a

real life right because that means that

you're gonna be have to spend so much

time chasing down the perfect material

that you're gonna be spending more time

looking for materials than actually just

immersing with them so that's kind of my

main thoughts on this topic what I do

think is that you know stephen krashen

when he was talking about

comprehensibility he was talking about

understanding messages he emphasized

that a lot he wasn't talking about you

understand all the nuances of grammar

and vocab like if you look at some of

the lectures he's given on YouTube he

will give the example of two different

lessons that he gives in German or

something and one of them he just speaks

German and the other one he's like

showing you like with visual clues what

he means but he's still speaking in full

sentences right he's speaking on full

blown German in that example just

because of the hand motions and the and

emphasizing certain parts of the

sentence you can tell what the overall

meaning is and so like I said before

that is it a difference between

understanding the message of what's

being said and understanding actually

the grammar in the vocab right like you

from just context alone even if you have

the sound off you can get the message of

what's being said in certain situations

even if the vocab and grammar is beyond

you and I think that's what chris

stephen krashen emphasized as the most

important component for acquisition

because again like figuring out the

grammar and the vocab that happens

unconsciously through like extremely

complicated inductive computational

processes that are way beyond what we

can do with our conscious brain right so

basically I think what stephen krashen

was saying is to engage those processes

you have to understand the message of

what's being said and then the

unconscious mind will do all the rest

and I do think there is something to

that and so that's why I think for

example watching a TV show that you have

watched in your native language before

like watching the Japanese dub of your

favorite American movie watching an

anime that you had watched before with

English subtitles

washing the raw without the subtitles or

even going on Wikipedia and reading the

episode descriptions of each episode

before you actually watch the episode

that can help a lot too or even on

Netflix you know they give you

each episode has a little paragraph

description of what happened in the

episode you can read that beforehand and

then get it just of what's happening and

so these are tools you can use to make

the message of what you're watching more

comprehensible and I do think there's a

lot of value in that I think that is

more important than actual

percentage-wise of how many words are

you understanding and things like that

and so to summarize in conclusion I

think that although we can't know for

sure which is the more optimal strategy

having almost full comprehensibility and

filling in the last spot or just having

less comprehensibility and working on

your cutting edge but we know that that

method at least has to work because it's

worked for me and on many other people

that's like the basis of the original

agent philosophy so it's proven to work

then we know it works pretty quickly at

them at the very least and in a way your

engagement with the material is much

more important than the

comprehensibility so I think I can say

pretty definitively that no matter what

you end up watching you should

prioritize your engagement over how much

you're understanding but when you can

using the tools I talked about before

like episode summaries on Wikipedia can

help make things more comprehensible in

a message kind of way and I do think

that is value so yeah