Divine Renovation: An Interview with Fr Mallon Part 2
Summary
TLDRIn this insightful discussion, Peter Herbeck and Father James Malan explore the concept of 'Divine Renovation,' emphasizing the transformation of parishes from maintenance to mission. They highlight the importance of vision in leadership, with Malan drawing parallels to Martin Luther King Jr.'s 'I Have a Dream' speech to illustrate the power of a compelling vision. The conversation delves into the role of the priesthood in guiding the Church, the necessity of overcoming clericalism to foster mature discipleship, and the strategy of communicating this vision through homilies and engaging key stakeholders to build a united and dynamic parish.
Takeaways
- 📚 The book 'Divine Renovation' by Father James Malan is a guide for parishes to transition from maintenance to mission, focusing on becoming communities of missionary disciples as emphasized by Pope Francis.
- 🌟 Vision is about the future and should be a picture that excites and stirs passion, much like Martin Luther King's 'I Have a Dream' speech, which was not about a plan but a dream.
- 🎯 Leadership within the Church is hierarchical and the role of priests in shaping the vision is crucial, with the pastor's passions and personality often reflecting in the parish over time.
- 💡 The first task of vision is to define it and communicate it to others in a way that is compelling and wins people over to the cause, not just posting it in a bulletin.
- 🔍 Each person, whether a pastor or in any ministry, should have a dream for the future of their ministry that excites them and should be encouraged to articulate this vision.
- 🚌 The metaphor of the 'bus' is used to describe the process of communicating vision, where the leader must ensure everyone knows where the bus is going before boarding.
- 🔑 The role of the leader is to cast vision and then win people to it, which involves more than just preaching but also personal engagement with key stakeholders.
- 🔄 The process of change should not be rushed from vision to implementation without ensuring that the congregation understands and is on board with the vision.
- 👂 Listening to the congregation and addressing their concerns is vital in the process of visioning, as it helps to motivate and engage them in the change process.
- 👨👧👦 Clericalism is identified as a barrier to discipleship, where the clergy take on roles that should belong to the baptized, hindering the growth and maturity of the laity.
- 🌱 The ultimate goal of pastoral care is to help believers grow to maturity in Christ, which is hindered by a culture of dependency fostered by clericalism.
Q & A
What is the main theme of the book 'Divine Renovation' by Father James Malan?
-The book 'Divine Renovation' focuses on the transformation of parishes from a maintenance mindset to a mission-oriented approach, emphasizing the development of communities of missionary disciples as inspired by Pope Francis.
What does Father James Malan suggest as the first step in leading a parish towards a vision?
-The first step is for the leader, typically the priest, to have a clear vision of the future that is exciting and passionate, and then to communicate this vision to the congregation effectively.
How does Father Malan describe the role of a leader in casting vision?
-A leader casts vision by painting a picture of the future that is so compelling it stirs passion and excitement, similar to how Martin Luther King Jr. presented his dream on the Washington Mall.
What is the importance of the hierarchical structure in the Church according to the transcript?
-The hierarchical structure signifies that the Church is led by priests, which is dogmatically defined and crucial for the leadership role within the priesthood to guide the vision and mission of the Church.
Why is it crucial for a priest to communicate the vision to the congregation?
-Communication of the vision is essential to win people over to the cause, making them excited about the future direction of the parish and ensuring they understand and support the changes being implemented.
What does Father Malan suggest as a method for leaders to find their vision?
-He suggests that leaders should tell their story, identify the things that drive them crazy, and use that frustration as a catalyst for their vision, as it represents the opposite of what they desire to see in their ministry.
How often did Father Malan recommend preaching a visioning homily in his parish?
-Father Malan recommended preaching a visioning homily every three weeks to keep reminding the congregation about the vision and purpose of their actions and changes.
What is the significance of the Sunday homily in communicating the vision to the congregation?
-The Sunday homily is a key tool for a priest to communicate the vision because it allows them to speak directly to the entire congregation, ensuring that everyone is informed and aligned with the vision.
What is clericalism and why is it an issue in the Church according to Father Malan?
-Clergyism is the inappropriate appropriation by the clerical caste of what is proper to the baptized, leading to a lack of personal responsibility and maturity among the laity. It is an issue because it hinders the growth and discipleship of believers.
How does Father Malan define the role of a priest in relation to the congregation's spiritual growth?
-Father Malan defines the role of a priest as a shepherd who is meant to feed the sheep, with the goal of helping them grow to spiritual maturity, rather than acting as a spiritual surrogate for the laity.
What is the importance of identifying and winning over key stakeholders when implementing change in a parish?
-Identifying and winning over key stakeholders is crucial because it ensures that influential members of the community are aligned with the vision and can help support and drive the changes, preventing division and resistance.
Outlines
📚 The Role of Vision in Parish Leadership
In the first paragraph, Peter Herbeck and Father James Malan discuss the concept of vision in the context of church leadership. They emphasize that vision is about defining a future that excites and motivates, using Martin Luther King Jr.'s 'I Have a Dream' speech as an example. The paragraph highlights the importance of leaders, particularly priests, in shaping the vision of a parish. It also touches on the idea that a leader's passion can significantly influence the direction of a parish. The summary encourages leaders to articulate and communicate their vision, not just as a plan, but as a compelling picture of the future that inspires others to join the mission.
🔥 Harnessing Discontent to Fuel Visionary Leadership
The second paragraph delves into the idea that frustration can be a catalyst for visionary leadership. It discusses the potential negative outcomes of unaddressed frustration, such as cynicism and despair, but also posits that a 'godly discontent' can be harnessed to drive positive change. The speaker shares personal experiences of being driven by a desire to improve the maturity and engagement of Catholic believers. He emphasizes the importance of communicating this vision through preaching and winning people over to the cause. The summary underscores the need for leaders to identify and articulate their vision, using their own experiences of discontent as a mirror to the future they wish to create.
🤝 The Importance of Communication and Community in Visionary Leadership
In the third paragraph, the focus shifts to the practical aspects of communicating a vision within a parish. It discusses the牧师's role in preaching the Sunday homily as a key method for conveying the vision to the congregation. The speaker also addresses the issue of clericalism, defining it as the clerical caste's inappropriate claim over what belongs to the baptized. The paragraph argues against a clergy-centric model and instead promotes a community-based approach where members care for one another. The summary highlights the need for leaders to take control of their message, identify key stakeholders, and involve them in the visioning process to foster a sense of ownership and unity.
🛠 Building a Leadership Team for a Missionary Parish
The final paragraph serves as a transition to the next topic, which is forming a leadership team. It emphasizes the importance of vision and communication in achieving the goal of becoming a missionary parish. The speaker suggests that having a clear vision is crucial for guiding the formation of a leadership team that can effectively lead the parish towards its mission. The summary points out the significance of a unified vision in building a strong leadership foundation that is essential for the transformation of a parish into a vibrant, outward-focused community of believers.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Divine Renovation
💡Missionary Disciples
💡Vision
💡Leadership
💡Clergy Centric
💡Clericalism
💡Maturity
💡Homily
💡Discipleship
💡Midsize Groups
Highlights
The importance of a leader in casting vision for a parish, emphasizing the role of priests in shaping the vision.
A vision should be a picture of the future that stirs passion and excitement, like Martin Luther King's 'I Have a Dream' speech.
The hierarchical nature of the Church and the significance of priests leading the vision.
The necessity for leaders to communicate their vision effectively to inspire others to join the mission.
The role of pastors in shaping the vision of a parish and reflecting their passions and personality.
Encouragement for leaders to define their vision for the future of their ministry and to articulate it vividly.
The idea that everyone has the capacity to become a better leader and to be visionary, regardless of their current abilities.
The suggestion to tell one's story as a way to find and express one's vision.
The concept of 'godly discontent' as a driving force for change and vision realization.
The importance of addressing the frustration that arises from the gap between inspiration and reality.
The牧师's vision for a dynamic and vibrant Sunday Eucharist that fosters an outward-focused community.
The牧师's approach to communicating vision through regular preaching and engaging the congregation.
The牧师's strategy for identifying and winning over key stakeholders in the parish to support the vision.
The牧师's emphasis on the importance of the Sunday homily as a primary tool for vision communication.
The牧师's discussion on the role of mid-sized groups in creating a sense of community and care within the parish.
The牧师's critique of clericalism and its impact on the maturity and discipleship of the laity.
The牧师's call to overcome clericalism by encouraging laypeople to take on their proper roles in the Church.
The牧师's vision for a parish that is life-giving, nurturing spiritual growth, and producing mature believers.
Transcripts
I'm Peter Herbeck we're back again with
father James Malan the author of divine
renovation bringing your parish from
maintenance to Mission really one of the
one of the best maybe I think the best
book out right now I have to tell you
it's the best book I've read on the
issue of how do we actually move from
maintenance to Mission how do we become
like Pope Francis's communities of
missionary disciples okay we ended last
program you just began to touch on the
role of the leader of casting vision yes
and how that happened so let's let's
cover that I think to begin with we've
got a define vision is about where we
desire to go it's it's about the future
that makes us so excited that I can't
sleep at night I think of one of the
great vision statements Martin Luther
King on the Washington Mall he didn't
get up and say I have a plan he didn't
say I have a strategy I have an idea I
have a I have a to-do list he said I
have a dream and he painted a dream that
was beautiful and moving and stirring
that's a vision a picture of the future
that makes you passionate makes you
excited but and I think this is one of
the most crucial things in the the in
the for the task of a leader and we are
a hierarchical Church which means
doesn't mean that's we're a structured
Church it means we are led by priests
that word heroes and archaea means means
led by priests that's that's that's
dogmatically defined that's who we are
as it is a church and so the role of
leadership within the task of the
priesthood is key and I'm going to talk
about a bit a bit more of this so you
can't be avoided in its first of all to
to be in touch with with a vision and to
communicate that vision to others and by
communicating it I don't just mean you
know post it in the in the bulletin I
mean you're gonna win people to it you
got it you got to like make people go
wow I would love to be a part of that
and so vision if it's a picture of the
future that makes you passionate it's
all about where are we going because if
you're going to say we're going to be a
missionary parish that means we're going
to be a parish that's going somewhere
okay so if you're gonna say let's go bow
this question is well where are we going
well that's it if you're gonna go
anywhere if you don't know where you're
gone
anywhere will get you there right so
you've got to know what you're going and
so I think this is really key and that
means that even before the pastor sits
down with a pastoral council or a
leadership team to enunciate shared
vision the pastor can't be shy about the
fact that as leader he's gonna have a
huge impact in the shaping of that
vision it's no coincidences that
perishes after a number of years will
end up reflecting the passions and
personality of the pastor the things the
pastor is passionate about won't be
reflected within the patch because he's
because he's a leader so the first task
then under vision is for that for each
person listening whether you're a a
pastor or a ministry or whatever you do
what is the dream for the future of your
ministry that makes you incredibly
excited and I even encourage you to
write it down don't write down a plan
don't tell me how you're gonna get there
paint the picture tell me what does it
look like what does it smell like what's
happening you said the sign on the bus
then you said in that computing the sign
on the bus is about communicating that's
about letting others that know where the
bus is going I see but before you put
the sign on sign on you that wants to be
on the sign itself Rights Act Lee yeah
exactly so now here's the thing people
will say well I may be one of your gifts
as being a is being visionary nuts that
is one of the gifts that I have but
here's the thing I think that people
have different leadership capacities but
everyone is the capacity to become a
better leader and and everyone you know
if you're in the priesthood if you give
your life you you had a passion you had
a vision that burned in your heart and
everyone has it everyone is it has
capacity to be a visionary and here's I
believe one way to find it it tell your
story when Iced years ago I when I still
go to conferences like I had this
burning desire in my heart to see we're
know within within parishes and I go to
conferences and I hear these amazing
speakers and I'd have a simultaneous
reaction I'd be like ah this is amazing
it's so inspiring
I'd be like absolutely on fire and
convicted and then I think about my
parish and I get totally depressed and
it was weird it's like here I'm I'm
inspired and the prayer
at the same time and and the temptation
I think is is to is to allow the the
reality in in the face of what we feel
call to to to get us down to to make a
just give up and say why bother but why
bother but you've got you got to be in
that zone and you've got to begin from
from where you are and I think that that
frustration because if you get inspired
and then you look at your reality what's
going to come from that is a sense of
frustration that doesn't have to be a
bad thing that can be a good to know it
can be a bad thing it can lead to
negativity into despair and lack of
cynicism and cynicism anger bitterness
and I've had to struggle with that in my
own life I've had to number of times
I've had to repent and bring that beat
before the Lord but I believe there's a
godly discontent that is a good thing
Jeremiah talks about you know the fire
burning in his bones he can't keep it in
there is a sense of find the thing that
drives you crazy and and and don't
medicate it don't don't hide it let it
come to the fore and in a godly way I
think for instance of a mosquito bite
you know if you ever been bitten by a
mosquito there's this sense of you want
to scratch it but you know if you
scratch it will get worse well I say
scratch it scratch
that's where ditch is then scratch the
itch of your discontent and the I say
this because the very thing that drives
you crazy is the mirror image of what
will be your vision for exempted how did
how did that work for you like
concretely what it look like it worked
for me because I desire to see a parish
what drove me crazy was the the lack of
maturity in in in Catholic believers
maturity didn't even seem to be an issue
you know Mitch to be a mature believer
that's the priests job 12 me crazy the
fact that so few Catholics are engaged
in discipleship the fact that a lot of
Catholics don't seem to know the Lord
and a personal way they don't read the
scriptures know what drove me crazy is
is is the celebrations of the Eucharist
that are dead there's like a zombie
convention you know I remember one time
this kid saying to me oh I don't like
Mass I find it boring I said you know
something you're boring I have to stand
up there look at your face if you think
you're a boring like I that drove me
crazy and
what does that tell me it tells me that
my vision my passion is to have a Sun
experience of Sunday Eucharist that is
dynamic vibrant it's alive a community
that is outward focused not inward focus
there's making disciples bringing people
to Jesus bringing people to maturity has
communities of authentic love and caring
and they're equipping people for
ministry and sending them out that image
of the church if I dwell on it I lose
sleep I I can't sleep I get so excited
about it and so in that case the the
very thing that drove me crazy is the
mirror image of the vision and so I came
into my parish with this sense of vision
and I and I asked over and over again
this is where we come to communicating
vision and communicating visions about
winning people and this is often where
where the thing breaks up because a
priest can come into a parish with great
vision and he jumps from what's in his
heart to implementing change well the
people don't know what the heck you're
doing it the priest is like we're gone
here the people like what are you
talking about we didn't even know we
were supposed to go anywhere and where
is here because you haven't told us and
in communicating vision is the next
essential element it's about weeding
people there's a number of ways to do it
that the primary way a priest can
communicate vision is is preaching the
Sunday homily this is very very key it
st. Benedict parish I preached a
visioning homily every three weeks and
at our parish one person preaches all
weekends we have four weekend masses I
know that's a challenge for some pastors
depends on based on your structure but
if you're structured in a way that
you're not able as a pastor because only
the pastor can speak Division can can
speak to everyone on week one weekend I
really really encourage you to look at
your math schedule some parishes have a
math schedule that can't be done and
there's no way it can be it can be
changed because of the physical layout
yeah but 80% of parishes my experience
that have a all these masses they don't
need all these masses it's not they
could very easily change and have a
parish where the pastor could could
could speak to the whole parish because
that is if you want to speak to your
people and say guess what folks we're
going to go and this is where we're
going you've got to speak to people
because if you just implement change the
thing will fall apart and will break
apart so
so every three weeks you give every
third week of a visioning homily yes
give an example what do you what do you
say what do you do it's essentially
about the main thing repeating again the
as I said the main thing is to keep the
main thing the main thing is what is the
main thing it's reminding the church
about its purpose about why we're doing
the things we're doing why we're perhaps
making this particular change or that
particular change
I remember one weekend a couple years
ago I did a visioning homily on on youth
ministry we went to hire a youth
minister and and in many ways the way to
a key visioning homily to motivate
people to desire change is is to just
like I say scratch the itch scratch the
itch of the people saying people are you
are you happy that many of your children
and grandchildren don't go to do is this
something you're content with yeah do
you want to do something about what you
think is this is it of course people
aren't happy about this scratch the itch
you help people to get to the point
where they're like yes we want to go
where you're talking about I did the
same when we into introduced mid-sized
groups in our parish so right now we
have about 15 18 percent of our adult
population in mid-size groups we have
you live in midsize groups of twenty to
thirty people that meet every two weeks
in homes how many is a midsize group 20
to 30 percent okay yeah I'm sorry and so
these are these are communities where
people are cared for and loved and see
in my parish we have 16 1700 people on a
weekend and I said to people what is the
what is the meaning of Christian
community I said the traditional model
of pastoral care was called father well
guess what I'm not going to show up at
your door unless there's a great tragedy
in your life is that the level of care
that we want to have in our parish are
you satisfied with that level of care
and compassion of course people think
that's terrible says well we've got to
do something about it we want to be a
community where people are known and
loved and cared for and the clergy
centric model can never accomplish that
we need to care for one another we need
to break our large parish into small and
to give people a vision and a taste of
what it can mean so they're like yeah
you know when you say clergy centric is
that relate to the the clericalism stuff
that you touch on in the book is that
related I think that as Eric ilysm is a
huge huge issue in our in our church
that we've got to overcome define that
for us for listeners and then I define
clericalism as the appropriation by the
clerical
asked and by clerical chaos I include
religious and even laypeople because
some late pastoral workers have adopted
a clerical mindset it's the
appropriation of the clerical caste of
what is proper to the baptized so
basically being a missionary disciple
you can't do that I don't expect that if
you let me do it for you this is my job
yeah it's my job I'm I'm the
professional Christian you just said I
asked that of you because you have all
these other responsibilities in your
life and it's a Skype call father what
is the primary desire of a father
disease children grow and become mature
and and in st. Paul says for this I
labor to present you all complete mature
in Christ this this is one of the
primary goals of pastoral care the care
of the Shepherd to feed the Sheep why do
you feed sheep same reason as you feed
your kids so that they grow up to be big
and strong we want our people to grow to
maturity
that's discipleship and and you know
clericalism is basically say it's a
symbiotic relationship it's like the the
layperson says you do it for me you be
my spiritual surrogate you be that holy
person up in the pedestal because that
helps me to convince myself that I could
never be that so you'd do it for me and
I'm gonna leave you in isolation and God
help you if you if you fall from this
pedestal and it's mute it's mutual Pope
Francis calls it a mutually sinful
condition and and and it feeds it feeds
that the lack of maturity within within
the laity and it's not that we're we're
intolerant of immaturity any family who
has children you expect him maturity and
children yeah but any parent knows that
the child eventually becomes mature
that's the whole point of parenting is
but the church will always have immature
members because we're always called to
be to be life-giving to have
babies if if if our parish ever becomes
a hundred percent committed believers
guess what you stopped having spiritual
babies about ten years ago you're
sterile and good for you that you're all
you're all mature but so a parish always
says that have immature believers but
they're in a process of maturation we
what we should not be tolerant of is you
know if you came home and found your 28
year old son in his right
mind sitting on the couch and diaper
sucking his thumb you would be a little
concerned I think you know you would
expect that from your two-year-old but
not of your 28 year old but yet in the
church we seem to tolerate this it's
almost like it's cute if parishioners
who don't know how to pray they don't
have a person relationship of Jesus they
know nothing about the Scriptures okay
maybe before the invention of the
printing press we had in it we had an
excuse maybe before universal literacy
we had an excuse but guess what it's not
the sixteenth century anymore it's not
the 19th century and anymore really
we've got to help people to grow and I
think clericalism it has a huge role to
play in that so we've got to in terms of
communicating vision yeah the homily is
key I can't underestimate that enough
that you've got to take control of your
message on a weekend because that's your
single biggest tool to say this is where
we're going but then you've got to
identify your key stakeholders in a
sense you know your your staff your key
volunteers your ministry leaders it
could be the person who runs a prayer
ministry heck it could just be mrs.
Smith who who just has great influence
over others and you can't just be going
to the people who you like and who agree
with you you've got to sit down and not
just say here's where I sense God
calling us to go it's to paint the dream
with that person and say to that person
you know I know that you might not agree
with everything I stand I stand for a
bit I know that you're an influential
person you're a key person this
community would you help would you help
come alongside and help us make this
happen so we can own it together and and
you've got to win your key people
because if you don't win your key people
when you begin to implement the change
that's where division because a vision
is where you're going if you have two
visions you have D vision and that's the
importance of vision and communicating
vision that's a great lead-in father for
our next show on leadership forming a
leadership team friends session 3 is all
about that that's a key building block
from being able to become a missionary
parish
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