With all this suffering, how could there be a God? | Tim Keller at Columbia University

Summary

The transcript presents a deep philosophical and theological discussion centered on the problem of evil and suffering, particularly in the context of the Holocaust. A former atheist reflects on his religious education, grappling with the existence of a loving God amidst immense suffering. The conversation explores how human suffering, whether on a global scale or personal tragedies, challenges belief in God, while highlighting the Christian concept of God’s involvement in suffering through the life and death of Jesus Christ. The discussion also delves into the idea that, even when no clear answer to suffering exists, it doesn't necessarily negate the possibility of a higher reason or purpose.

Takeaways

• 😀 The speaker received 12 years of religious education, initially in Catholic schools and later in Jesuit prep schools, but ultimately became an atheist.
• 😀 The Holocaust serves as a significant stumbling block for the speaker's belief in God, questioning how such evil could occur if God exists.
• 😀 The speaker's primary question is about how God could allow evil and suffering, focusing on the magnitude of events like the Holocaust.
• 😀 A key point raised is the relationship between European Christianity and the Holocaust, questioning how a civilization based on Christianity could produce such atrocities.
• 😀 The speaker is introduced to the Christian minister's perspective, who notes that suffering is not exclusive to large-scale events like the Holocaust, but exists in everyday tragedies.
• 😀 The Christian minister argues that responses to suffering should include silence, love, and speaking only when spoken to, indicating the complexity of answering why evil exists.
• 😀 The minister suggests that disbelief in God does not make suffering any easier to handle, as it leaves no foundation to understand or justify human suffering.
• 😀 The speaker references Martin Luther King Jr.'s belief that moral outrage and the concept of injustice rely on the existence of a higher moral law.
• 😀 The Christian minister emphasizes that in Christianity, God came down to Earth and suffered in the form of Jesus Christ, offering a counterpoint to the notion that God is indifferent to human suffering.
• 😀 The philosopher Alvin Plantinga is mentioned, introducing the idea that just because a person cannot think of a reason for God's actions, it doesn't mean there isn't one, much like not being able to see certain things in a tent doesn't mean they aren't there.

Q & A

Why did the speaker become an atheist after 12 years of religious education?

The speaker became an atheist due to the philosophical and emotional struggle with understanding how a loving God could allow the Holocaust, where 6 million people were exterminated, amidst a world of such widespread suffering.

What is the key philosophical question posed by the speaker regarding suffering and the existence of God?

The key philosophical question is how a loving God could allow such immense evil and suffering, specifically referencing the Holocaust, and whether it is possible to reconcile God's existence with such tragedy.

How does the Christian minister respond to the question of suffering and evil in the world?

The Christian minister acknowledges that the Holocaust and other forms of suffering are terrible, but emphasizes that the right response to those suffering is often silence and love. The minister argues that the existence of suffering doesn’t necessarily point to God's indifference, as the Christian God is believed to have actively suffered through Jesus Christ's sacrifice.

What does Martin Luther King Jr.'s letter from Birmingham Jail contribute to the discussion about suffering and justice?

Martin Luther King Jr.'s letter suggests that moral outrage at suffering, such as the Holocaust or social injustices, requires a belief in a higher moral law. Without this, there would be no clear basis for distinguishing right from wrong, and suffering would be seen as a natural part of life, as in the case of Darwinian natural selection.

What is the significance of the Christian view of God in relation to suffering?

In Christianity, God is seen as not distant from human suffering but as one who actively participated in it through the suffering of Jesus Christ. This belief counters the idea that God is indifferent to suffering, showing that He experienced it personally.

How does the minister explain the concept of God’s involvement in suffering through the story of the cat?

The minister uses the example of his cat suffering after breaking its leg to explain that, despite the cat not having the same level of self-awareness as humans, its suffering still matters to him. Similarly, God’s involvement in human suffering is shown through Jesus Christ’s voluntary suffering, which holds greater significance due to the awareness and self-consciousness humans possess.

What philosophical concept does Alvin Plantinga discuss, and how does it relate to suffering and God’s reasons?

Alvin Plantinga's concept, illustrated through the analogy of not seeing a St. Bernard in a pup tent, suggests that just because we cannot think of a good reason for why God allows evil and suffering, it doesn't mean that there is no reason. It challenges the assumption that a lack of understanding implies the absence of a reason.

How does the speaker’s view on suffering change from atheism to a more philosophical stance on evil?

The speaker moves from a visceral, atheistic reaction to suffering to a more philosophical stance, where they acknowledge that while they can't fully explain the reasons for suffering, they also understand that not having an answer does not necessarily mean that no reason exists.

Why does the minister suggest silence and love as a response to those suffering?

The minister suggests that silence and love are often the most compassionate responses to those in suffering because words cannot fully address the depth of pain, and sometimes, just being present with someone in their suffering is the most meaningful way to support them.

What is the significance of the idea that suffering and evil do not necessarily point to God’s lack of love or involvement?

The idea suggests that while the reasons behind suffering may be unclear, the existence of suffering does not imply that God is indifferent or uncaring. The Christian narrative of God’s involvement in human suffering through Jesus Christ’s life and death affirms that God’s love is active and engaged, even in the face of unexplainable suffering.