Jordan Peterson and Max Lugavere - Pros and Cons of the Carnivore Diet
Summary
TLDRThe transcript delves into the carnivore diet, exploring its potential as a therapeutic diet for autoimmune conditions. It acknowledges the diet's benefits for some, while cautioning against dietary extremism and misinformation. The conversation underscores the importance of individualized nutrition, the complexity of reintroducing foods, and the value of simplicity in dietary choices. It also highlights the potential for plant-based nutrients to complement a carnivorous diet, suggesting that a one-size-fits-all approach is not effective. The discussion emphasizes the need for informed decision-making and the possibility of dietary experimentation for those suffering from chronic health issues.
Takeaways
- 🥩 The carnivore diet is considered potentially therapeutic for individuals with autoimmunity issues.
- 🌱 The carnivore diet is not recommended for everyone and should be approached with caution.
- 🚫 The speaker is against diet zealotry and supports informed decisions based on individual health needs.
- 🌿 Some plant-based compounds, like those found in cruciferous vegetables, can be beneficial for detoxifying environmental pollutants.
- 🥦 Foods like kale and spinach are rich in carotenoids that benefit brain health.
- 🔍 Elimination diets can be useful for identifying food triggers for chronic health conditions.
- 👨👩👧👦 The speaker's family experimented with various diets to address their daughter's immunological issues.
- 🐮 Beef was found to be effective for some individuals in alleviating symptoms of chronic conditions like arthritis.
- 🕒 A trial period of three months on a carnivore diet is suggested to assess its effectiveness.
- 🤔 Adding back certain foods to a carnivore diet is complex and requires careful monitoring and scientific approach.
- 🌐 There is no one-size-fits-all diet, and individual health histories and lifestyles should dictate dietary choices.
Q & A
What is the carnivore diet?
-The carnivore diet is a dietary regimen that consists primarily or exclusively of animal products, such as meat, eggs, and dairy, and excludes plant-based foods.
What are the potential advantages of the carnivore diet mentioned in the transcript?
-The potential advantages include its therapeutic benefits for individuals with autoimmunity, weight loss, and symptom relief for chronic conditions like arthritis and diabetes.
What are the potential dangers of the carnivore diet as discussed?
-The potential dangers are not explicitly stated, but could include nutrient deficiencies from the lack of plant-based foods, which are rich in certain vitamins, minerals, and phytochemicals.
What is the speaker's stance on diet zealotry and social media?
-The speaker is critical of diet zealotry and the emotional investment some people have in what others eat. They advocate for informed decision-making and are against misinformation or disinformation about healthy eating.
Why does the speaker believe the carnivore diet might be beneficial for some people?
-The speaker suggests that for individuals with a predisposition to autoimmunity or those suffering from certain chronic conditions, the carnivore diet could provide symptom relief and potentially improve health.
What is the speaker's opinion on the demonization of cruciferous vegetables in carnivore circles?
-The speaker disagrees with the demonization of cruciferous vegetables, citing studies that show compounds like glucosinolates can help detoxify the body from environmental pollutants.
What role do plant defense compounds play according to the transcript?
-Plant defense compounds, despite being demonized by some, are believed to have health benefits, such as aiding in detoxification from environmental pollutants.
What does the speaker think about the idea of an elimination diet for addressing health issues?
-The speaker views elimination diets as a potentially valuable tool for identifying dietary triggers of symptoms and improving health, especially when other dietary interventions have failed.
Why did the speaker's family experiment with the carnivore diet for their daughter's health issues?
-The family experimented with the carnivore diet because traditional elimination diets did not make sense and did not help. They found relief with a more radical approach of consuming only beef.
What is the significance of the anecdotal evidence of weight loss and symptom remission on the carnivore diet?
-The speaker considers the anecdotal evidence of significant weight loss and symptom remission as valuable hypotheses that, when repeated, start to resemble data and suggest the diet's potential efficacy.
What is the recommended trial period for the carnivore diet as discussed in the transcript?
-The recommended trial period for the carnivore diet is suggested to be around three months to see if it works for an individual.
Why does the speaker suggest that adding certain foods back into the diet is complex?
-Adding foods back into the diet is complex because it requires a scientific approach, discipline, and the ability to measure the effects over time, which can be difficult and time-consuming.
Outlines
🥩 Carnivore Diet: Advantages, Risks, and Personal Perspectives
The speaker discusses the carnivore diet as a potential therapeutic option, particularly for individuals with autoimmune conditions. While they acknowledge the diet's benefits for some, they also emphasize that they do not push it on others. The speaker expresses a general disinterest in what others eat, preferring informed choices over ideologically driven decisions. They highlight the potential nutritional benefits of plant-based foods like cruciferous vegetables and dark leafy greens, which are demonized in some carnivore circles. Despite the benefits of these plant compounds, they acknowledge that the carnivore diet might be useful for people experiencing symptom relief from certain conditions.
🥩 Beef-Only Diet: A Trial and Its Potential Benefits
The speaker explains that they've spoken to many people who have experienced significant health improvements, particularly weight loss, from a beef-only diet. They suggest that for individuals with chronic health conditions and obesity, trying an elimination diet, like consuming only beef for a few months, might be worthwhile. This approach is considered a simple method to test if a certain food is contributing to their symptoms, even if anecdotal evidence may not be viewed as conclusive data. The speaker stresses that, while it may not work for everyone, the simplicity of a beef-only diet offers a potential benefit with minimal risk.
🥩 Nutrition Complexity: Adding Nutrients Back After a Carnivore Diet
The speaker explores the idea of reintroducing other foods after following a beef-only diet. They acknowledge the nutrient-dense properties of beef but question whether additional foods could provide further benefits, such as higher levels of magnesium and other essential nutrients. Despite their skepticism, they emphasize the challenges of adding foods back to the diet. The speaker highlights that it requires a disciplined, scientific approach to determine what works, as the addition of new foods can be complex and hard to measure in terms of health benefits. They suggest that the simplicity of a meat-only diet is often easier to follow, but it may not fully address every nutritional need.
🌱 Individualized Nutrition: Tailoring Diets for Different Needs
In this section, the speaker addresses the fact that no single diet fits everyone. They acknowledge that their own family's health concerns led them to find a specific diet that works for them. However, for individuals without autoimmune issues and other health challenges, the speaker suggests that a balanced diet with a variety of nutrients, including plant-based foods, might be better suited. The discussion touches upon the complex factors influencing gut microbiome health, including lifestyle choices and exposure to chemicals. The speaker concludes by recognizing the benefits of restrictive diets for some, but argues that the broader population may need a more flexible approach.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Carnivore Diet
💡Autoimmunity
💡Gut Microbiome
💡Plant Defense Compounds
💡Detoxification
💡Phytochemicals
💡Elimination Diet
💡Dietary Zealots
💡Misinformation
💡Nutrient-Dense
💡Resilience
Highlights
Carnivore diet could be therapeutic for people with autoimmunity predisposition.
Diet enthusiasts on social media can be overly invested in what others eat.
The importance of informed decision-making in diet choices.
People with robust gut microbiomes can benefit from plant defense compounds.
Randomized human trials show cruciferous vegetables can help detoxify environmental pollutants.
Phytochemicals from animal source foods like carotenoids are beneficial for brain health.
Kale is a good source of carotenoids despite negative perceptions.
Elimination diets can be beneficial for addressing immunological problems.
Fasting is a reliable treatment for arthritis, as documented in literature.
Experimenting with elimination diets led to discovering the benefits of a carnivore diet.
Many people have reported weight loss and health transformations on the carnivore diet.
An elimination diet of just beef might be worth trying for chronic health conditions.
Beef is nutrient-dense and satiating, with potential short-term health benefits.
Adding back certain foods to a carnivore diet can be complex and require scientific discipline.
There's no one-size-fits-all diet, and individual health conditions should be considered.
The complexity of adding phytonutrients back into a diet and measuring their effects.
The simplicity of a carnivore diet and its potential for improving health.
The need for resilience in the gut microbiome and the impact of lifestyle on diet choices.
Transcripts
obviously at some point we're going to
get into the issue of the carnivore diet
yeah and so I guess the first thing I'd
say is and you're making some illusion
to it now obviously what are your
thoughts about the carnivore diet what
and its potential advantages and dangers
I think I mean I think it's potentially
a a great therapeutic diet for people
that have you know a predisposition to
autoimmunity yeah um and it's not
something that I would ever behold
anybody here's other thing is that diet
zealots particularly today on social
media they're very they seem to be very
emotionally invested in what other
people eat I don't care ultimately what
other people eat I feel the same way
about that you know at a at say a moral
level right but like or emo you want
people to be able to make informed
decisions not decisions clouded by what
I call covert activism right yeah or or
overt activism for for for for that
matter yeah or you know misinformation
or disinformation about what it means to
eat healthily today ultimately I don't
care you know somebody wants otherwise
known as lies yes precisely um so yeah I
mean I would for people that are that
have seen a reprieve of symptoms from
some of these awful conditions that
people suffer from yeah like keep doing
it yeah I think that for somebody with a
robust gut microbiome who you know I
think people should be able to tolerate
and not just tolerate but to derive you
you know a health benefit from you know
many of these so-called plant defense
compounds you know even cruciferous
vegetables which have become demonized
in certain carnivore circles you know
due to you know certain uh glucosinolate
compounds or compound like sorane which
you know there are actual randomized
human trials that show that these
compounds can actually help us detoxify
from some of these environmental
pollutants that we know you know play a
role in disease um
obviously you can get a certain uh dose
if you will of phytochemicals from
eating animal sourc foods but you know
carotenoids like ltin and zanthin which
we know are very beneficial to brain
health you know you're not going to see
a better you're not going to find a
better source of them in the supermarket
than kale for example which people love
to hate on but foods like kale spinach
dark leafy greens cruciferous vegetables
I think that the I do think that for
most people the benefits outweigh the
risk MH you know um
if an Elimination Diet where you remove
all fruits and vegetables for a Time
helps I think that's amazing well that
that's a good useful thing to discuss
procedurally I mean when we were trying
to
address my daughter's um immunological
problems which my wife was on at a very
early stage because she intuited that
there was a dietary relationship but it
turned out to be so complex I mean we
couldn't have possibly imagined that
eating nothing but meat was the solution
like who in the hell's going to ever
think that I knew that fasting was a
reliable treatment for for arthritis and
that's well documented in literature
virtually everyone who's arthritic if
they fast they go into remission but
then when they start eating the symptoms
come back and so well and maybe that's
not true if all they start eating again
is red meat but those studies hadn't
been done and still haven't been as far
as I know um we had tried Michaela on
some different elimination diets but
they made no sense like the food classes
that were eliminated and kept seemed
random to me and well and to Tammy and
and to Michaela and she started to
experiment they started to experiment
with more radical elimination diets and
by trial and error and also because of
Shawn Baker came to experiment with only
beef which worked and so you know and
we've talked to hundreds or maybe
thousands of people now who have tried
variants of the carnivore diet and had
radical especially weight loss
Transformations like yeah I talk to
people at my lectures all the time who
they're Shell Shocked because they've
lost like 150 pounds in 18 months and so
they're not even the same people
physically and well they're happy about
it obviously but also
completely they're shocked by the fact
that that worked now I would say and you
tell me what you think about this is
that if you are suffering from chronic
health conditions especially if you're
also overweight an Elimination Diet is
worth trying on the off chance that
something you're eating is causing your
symptoms because who knows and the
simplest Elimination Diet is obviously
just beef yeah right so why not go down
to one variable and if it doesn't work
like we've talked to many people and I
know people say well anecdotes aren't
data it's like no but they're hypotheses
yeah and many of the same anecdotes
start to look a lot like data so anyways
we've talked to many people who've
reported remission of their diabetic or
arthritic symptoms within two weeks of
an only beef diet and so we are thinking
that it's more like 3 months is a good
trial and if it doesn't work well okay
the loss is some restriction for 3
months and that's about it and it's it's
not like it's easy not saying that and
you may suffer some complications in the
transition to the new and more
restrictive diet but you can live on
just beef so like what the hell if
you're half dead and radically
overweight 3 months isn't much of a risk
and so I'm wondering what like what do
you think about that line of logic yeah
well I think you know I think well I
think you're right and in the sense that
beef is it's an incredibly
nutrient-dense food it's highly
satiating yes it's loaded with protein
obviously um you're you're restricting
the consumption of large swaths of the
most problematic Foods accessible to a
modern human today and so it doesn't
surprise me that at least in the short
term you're going to see an improvement
yeah yeah um and so I guess my qu my
question is and I think Shawn Baker is
very smart yeah but I I had him on my
podcast recently and I post this
question to him like you're performing
already at such a high level on beef and
I don't doubt that you're healthy you
seem healthy and he's quite monster yeah
and I'm not going to Gaslight somebody
who's on you know a carnivore diet and
and and and asserting that they're
thriving on it like who am I to G you
know to say that you're not right yeah
right um but you know my question to him
was like okay so you've established this
that this diet is working well for you
why not add in some of these foods that
we know have compounds that you know
might be lacking in beef yeah or like
might give you an additional benefit you
know for example like an all meat diet
might not have very particularly high
levels of magnesium which we know you
know plays hundreds of roles in the body
right everything from you know repairing
DNA damage to energy synthesis like it's
a co-actor that you know is required in
the synthesis of ATP for example some of
these carotenoid compounds that I
mentioned earlier like yeah you're
getting those are definitely open
questions yeah maybe they're you're
getting a small amount of them in your
meaton diet right but maybe a little bit
more might you know give you an
additional cognitive and and we're just
playing like nutritionism here with
these like individual nutrients that
have been studied that I can reference
that I know about but there are swaths
of nutrients in the plant kingdom that
you know have been identified as playing
as having a potential benefit to human
health even something as innocuous as
white rice right where it's had all the
an antinutrients sloughed off right like
for somebody who's you know such a
physical spe as he is like maybe adding
some carbohydrates into that system you
know so that you get a little bit of
additional glycogen in the tank before
you know cuz he's still trying to like
break records a Madman the best possible
way yeah um maybe that might you know
Ser an Adaptive so I can understand that
I guess the the my criticism of that to
the degree that a criticism is warranted
is it's extremely complex to
and this contradicts to some degree
something I said earlier you know that
you could reduce to a carnivore doid and
then add back it's very complicated to
add back right you really have to think
like a scientist and you have to be very
disciplined you know to experiment with
one thing at a time in addition and then
also to figure out well how do you know
if it's helping like what's your measure
and over what time frame you know so
like I've tried to add things back to my
I added salmon back to my diet and it
turned out that it made me anxious and I
have no idea why and it's a pretty
robust effect and it took a fair while
to manifest itself and so you have these
terrible complex problems with adding
things back which is well maybe if you
added phytonutrients for example of the
sort that you were describing it would
take a month to see a difference and it
would be hard to measure except in
certain circumstances so like how do you
know and that's the problem with
scientific investigation and the
advantage to just eating beef is that
it's really it's it's simple right it's
like no just do this and I'm I it
wouldn't surprise me at all if there
would be ways of it might surprise me
but I could imagine that there would be
ways of improving your diet beyond what
you would get with merely meat but man
it it really it's a conundrum to figure
out how to go doing that yeah well
everybody's the other thing that I think
is important is that there's really no
there's no such nutrition isn't a hat
there's no such thing as a one siiz all
pattern that's going to work for
everybody um and you know in your family
you obviously have you know you have
these health concerns which I think are
important to acknowledge and to you know
and to recognize that you're a scientist
and you've you know you've you've done
the work and you've found this one diet
this this this diet that works for you
and I think screaming all the way and I
think that's that's
amazing um but you know for somebody who
who is not immunologically compromised
right and who you know was born
vaginally and who didn't take a ton of
antibiotics growing up and was breastfed
and who hasn't you know traveled all
around the world and had infections and
surgeries and things like that that you
know you know these are all like it's
Death By A Thousand Cuts today um and so
you throw into that milu CR chronic
sedentary Lifestyles which you know has
a negative impact on the gut microbiome
we know that you know obviously an ultr
processed food diet has a negative
impact on the gut microbiome you know
all of these industrial chemical
additives also are playing a role we've
lost resilience in the gut I think and
that's why so many of us do seem to do
better seemingly on these you know
incredibly restrictive elimination diets
right
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