Why Falcon 9 Faced FAA Investigations But Not Starliner | We Asked The FAA
Summary
TLDRThis video script discusses the FAA's regulatory role in commercial space launches, contrasting SpaceX's Falcon 9 rocket's anomaly investigations with Boeing's Starliner. It explains the distinction between FAA, NASA, and DOD oversight, emphasizing that Starliner's issues are under NASA's purview as it hasn't been commercially licensed by the FAA. The script also covers the process of transitioning from developmental testing to operational flights under FAA licensing.
Takeaways
- 🚀 The FAA requires anomaly investigations for SpaceX's Falcon 9 rocket but has not yet licensed Starliner, which is still under NASA's responsibility.
- 📚 The term 'grounded' is more applicable to aviation and not typically used for rockets; instead, the FAA holds the license during investigation.
- ⏱️ SpaceX's Falcon 9 was able to return to flight quickly (15 days and 2 days for two separate incidents) after FAA public safety determinations.
- 🔍 The script explores the difference between a rocket being 'grounded' and not being allowed to return to flight, although the exact difference is not clearly defined.
- 📖 The script references Title 14 and Title 51 of the US code to discuss the FAA's authority over commercial space transportation.
- 👨💼 Dan Murray from the FAA's Office of Commercial Space Transportation explains the FAA's role as regulators for the commercial space industry.
- 🛰️ Starliner's issues were with the spacecraft itself, not the Atlas 5 launch system, which means Atlas 5 would not be affected but Starliner might be.
- 🤝 The responsibility for safety during a launch can fall to NASA, the Department of Defense, or the FAA, depending on who the launch is for.
- 🚀 The FAA does not license launches for the U.S. government, distinguishing between commercial and governmental/military launches.
- 📊 The FAA's website shows an increase in launch frequency, indicating a growing commercial space industry.
- 🔄 The commercial crew program's approach involves NASA taking responsibility during early demo missions and then transitioning to the FAA for operational flights.
Q & A
What is the role of the FAA in commercial space transportation?
-The FAA serves as a regulator for the commercial space transportation industry, issuing licenses for companies to launch or re-enter their vehicles or operate a site.
Why did the FAA require anomaly investigations for SpaceX's Falcon 9 rocket?
-The FAA required anomaly investigations for the Falcon 9 rocket after encountering problems with the second stage and landing issues that could potentially compromise public safety.
What is the difference between 'grounding' a rocket and holding a license during an investigation?
-The term 'grounding' is more commonly used in aviation and doesn't directly apply to rockets. Instead, the FAA holds the license during an investigation, which means the rocket isn't allowed to fly until the investigation shows that safety wasn't compromised.
How quickly was SpaceX's Falcon 9 allowed to return to flight after the July anomaly investigation?
-SpaceX's Falcon 9 was allowed to return to flight on July 27th, which was 15 days, 3 hours, and 10 minutes after the anomaly occurred, following a FAA Public Safety determination.
What specific issues did Starliner encounter during its third launch?
-Starliner encountered problems with thruster overheating and malfunctioning seals during its third launch, which affected its performance.
Why did NASA decide not to use Starliner to return astronauts from the ISS after its third launch?
-NASA decided not to use Starliner to return astronauts from the ISS due to the thruster and seal issues encountered during the mission, preferring to use other options for safety reasons.
What is the distinction between a rocket and a spacecraft in terms of FAA licensing?
-The FAA distinguishes between the launch system (rocket) and the spacecraft. Issues with the spacecraft do not necessarily affect the launch system, and vice versa.
Why hasn't Starliner been grounded by the FAA like Falcon 9?
-Starliner has not been grounded by the FAA because it has not been commercially licensed by the FAA. Its safety and licensing are still under NASA's responsibility.
Who is responsible for safety on a given launch, NASA, the Department of Defense, or the FAA?
-The responsibility for safety on a launch depends on who the launch is for. It could be NASA, the Department of Defense, or the FAA, with each having different areas of responsibility.
How does the FAA's involvement differ between a licensed commercial launch and a non-licensed government launch?
-Even if the FAA doesn't license a launch, they still assist with the launch process by providing services like airspace integration and notice to air missions.
What is the process for Starliner to move into an operational or commercial phase with the FAA?
-For Starliner to move into an operational or commercial phase, it must complete successful missions under NASA's guidance, then go through the FAA's licensing process, which includes public safety determinations and possibly anomaly investigations.
Outlines
🚀 FAA's Role in Spacecraft Safety
The paragraph discusses the FAA's role in regulating commercial space transportation and its interaction with SpaceX's Falcon 9 rocket. It clarifies that the FAA doesn't 'ground' rockets but holds the license during an anomaly investigation. The conversation with Dan Murray, Executive Director of Operational Safety at the FAA, provides insight into the FAA's process for issuing licenses and managing safety concerns. The FAA's approach to the Falcon 9 anomaly in July, which led to a rapid return to flight after a public safety determination, is highlighted. The paragraph also addresses the confusion around the terminology used for spacecraft safety compared to aviation.
🌌 Differences in Licensing for Rockets and Spacecraft
This paragraph distinguishes between the roles of the FAA and other agencies like NASA or the Department of Defense in overseeing the safety of space launches. It explains that the FAA is responsible for commercial launches, not governmental or military ones. The paragraph also highlights the difference between a rocket (the launch system) and a spacecraft, using the examples of SpaceX's Falcon 9 and Crew Dragon, as well as Boeing's Starliner and the Atlas 5 rocket. It points out that the FAA's involvement depends on who the launch is for and whether it's considered a commercial mission.
🛰️ FAA's Licensing Process and Safety Oversight
The paragraph delves into the FAA's licensing process for commercial space launches and re-entries. It mentions that even if the FAA doesn't license a launch, they still assist with the launch process, such as airspace management. The discussion includes the transition of responsibility from NASA to the FAA for SpaceX's Crew Dragon missions, moving from developmental test flights to operational commercial flights. The paragraph also touches on how the FAA works with other agencies to ensure public safety during space missions.
🔍 Starliner's Path to Commercial Licensing
This paragraph focuses on Boeing's Starliner spacecraft and its journey towards commercial licensing with the FAA. It contrasts Starliner's situation with SpaceX's Dragon, which has successfully transitioned to commercial operations under the FAA's licensing. The paragraph explains that Starliner is still under NASA's responsibility and has not yet reached the commercial licensing stage with the FAA. It also discusses the potential future steps for Starliner to achieve commercial status and the uncertainty around NASA's certification process for the spacecraft.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡FAA
💡Falcon 9
💡Anomaly Investigation
💡Starliner
💡Commercial Space Transportation
💡Regulation
💡Public Safety Determination
💡Licensing
💡SpaceX
💡International Space Station (ISS)
💡Commercial Crew Program
Highlights
FAA requires anomaly investigations for SpaceX's Falcon 9 rocket on two separate occasions.
FAA's role in regulating commercial space transportation explained by Dan Murray, Executive Director of Operational Safety.
Term 'grounded' is not used for rockets; instead, the FAA holds on to the license during investigation.
SpaceX's Falcon 9 was grounded after a problem with the second stage in July, but returned to flight in 15 days.
FAA Public Safety determination allows SpaceX to continue flying while investigation is ongoing.
Starliner encountered problems with thrusters and seals during its third launch in June.
Starliner managed to get astronauts to the International Space Station despite issues.
Difference between rocket and spacecraft issues highlighted with examples of Falcon 9 and Starliner.
FAA does not license launches or re-entries by and for the U.S. government.
Responsibility for safety during a launch can fall to NASA, Department of Defense, or FAA.
FAA's involvement in the launch process even if they don't license the mission.
NASA and Department of Defense have first option to sponsor or take responsibility for launch safety.
Dragon demo flights were under NASA's responsibility until it moved to operational status.
Starliner's issues are still under NASA's purview, and the FAA has not licensed it for commercial operations.
NASA's role in certifying Starliner before it can move to commercial operations discussed.
FAA's process for issuing commercial licenses and the criteria for anomaly investigations explained.
Importance of public safety in space launches and the role of different agencies in ensuring it.
Transcripts
in recent history the FAA has required
an anomaly investigation for spacex's
Falcon 9 rocket on two separate
occasions when are they going to do the
same for Starliner well that's actually
a good question and a lot of you have
been asking that in the YouTube comments
we do read the comments and at first I
didn't know the answer so I sat down
with the FAA to help unravel the
process it's not the entire FAA that
we're talking to that's not how it works
but we've actually got Dan Murray who's
the executive director with the
operation of operational safety Dan
that's a mouthful what does that
actually mean like what do you do with
the FAA sure uh well first of all thank
you for having me here uh I really
appreciate the opportunity to talk to
you and your listeners uh so I uh I I'm
with the faa's office of commercial
space
Transportation uh we're one of several
called lines of business within the FAA
uh we serve as Regulators uh in this uh
instance to the commercial space
Transportation industry uh and the way
we go about doing that is by uh issuing
licenses uh for commercial companies to
launch or re-enter uh their vehicles or
to operate a site you can tell I had my
interview headset on so let's hop right
in on July 11th spacex's Falcon 9 was
grounded after a problem with the second
stage ended up in the loss of the
mission now the time out already we're
apparently not supposed to use the term
grounded we hear from time to time
sometimes in the media that a rocket is
grounded uh that's more of an aviation
term um you know we don't have fleets of
rockets like there are fleets of of
certain types of aircraft um and we
don't ground but what we do do is we
hold on to the license while the
investigation proceeds um there's a
chance that the investigation can again
demonstrate that uh safety was not not
in in Jeopardy in what with what
happened and at that point we can issue
a return to flight and we have done that
a number of times you may have heard of
aircraft being grounded when there's a
problem that prevents the entire class
of aircraft from flying
but if it's not grounded what's it
supposed to be for Rockets to try and
figure it out I actually pulled up title
14 chapter 3 commercial space
transportation for the Federal Aviation
Administration I searched for the word
ground and I found ground Trace ground
service equipment ground safety analysis
grounding when it comes to electronics
and lightning but I didn't find anything
that used the word ground grounded or
grounding in reference to stopping a
rocket from flying I can put a link in
the description if you want to search
for yourself so I actually backed out to
title 51 of the US code section 509
which establishes the fa's ability to do
these things and I found the Secretary
of Transportation May prohibit suspend
or inmediately the launch of a launch
vehicle well none of those said
grounding and I eventually found myself
thinking no disassemble afterwards but
that's a whole other story so I reached
out to the FAA for clarification and
they told me the launch provider may not
return to flight now what's the real
difference between not being able to
return to flight and being ground
grounded I don't know but if I keep
saying grounded in this video please
forgive me it's just because I don't
have a better term to use and that sort
of sums it up in one easy word the
rocket can't fly or more specifically
the Rocket's not allowed to fly anyways
back to that Falcon 9 anomaly in July
after the anomaly investigation was
initiated SpaceX returned to flight on
July 27th that's in a lap time of 15
days 3 hours and 10 minutes liftoff to
liftoff it's pretty fast when they
returned to flight they were able to do
so because of a FAA Public Safety
determination which basically just
determined that the public safety wasn't
in Jeopardy due to that anomaly so they
could continue flying while they
continued the investigation and as far
as I know that mishap investigation is
ongoing but then again on August 28th a
landing anomaly grounded Falcon 9 again
in that instance Falcon 9 returned to
Flight 2 days 23 hours and 55 minutes
liftoff to liftoff after the anomaly and
you thought 2 weeks was fast now the
same thing there the public safety
determination found that the public
wasn't really unsafe due to that anomaly
so Falcon 9 could very rapidly return to
flight and that brings us to Starliner
on June 5th Starliner launched for the
third time this time with crew aboard
during this Mission Starliner
encountered all sorts of problems
primarily with the thrusters overheating
and seals not working the way they're
supposed to the purpose of this video
isn't to dig into the details of
Starliner problems we'll all agree it
had problems that need to be figured out
now even though there were crew aboard
Starliner got the astronauts to the
International Space Station just fine
for certain values of fine I mean the
astronauts themselves were okay so even
though they made it there safely with
the problems that occurred in the lack
of explanation on exactly why those
problems occurred NASA felt like it
didn't need to take the risk and send
the astronauts back down to earth on the
Starliner and I can tell you um when you
push the edge of the envelope again and
you do things with spacecraft that have
never been done before just like
Starliner you're going to find some
things and in this case we found some
things that we just could not get
comfortable with uh putting us back in
the Starliner when we had other options
so Starliner with no astronauts aboard
undocks from the ISS and returns to
earth safely at Whit sand space Harbor
now again there were a couple problems
on the way down some more Thruster
problems an issue with a navigation
reboot or loss of signal which can be
pretty important for a spacecraft that's
trying to land but it did come down just
fine so even though Starliner made it
back given the fact that it left the
astronauts on the space station and had
all these issues over the course of the
mission is starl going to be grounded I
mean there were no people aboard the
Falcon 9es and it couldn't fly but
Starliner had crew aboard what's going
to happen well top of the pile one of
the big things that you might realize is
the difference between the rocket and
the spacecraft in the case of Falcon 99
Falcon 9 is the launch system and dragon
is the spacecraft that is launched by
that launch system for Starliner Atlas 5
was the launch system and Starliner was
the spacecraft so there's an important
Point here about where specifically the
problem occurred was it the launcher or
was it the spacecraft in the case of
Falcon 9 both problems were with a
launch system itself either the second
stage which pushed the payload the rest
of the way into orbit or the first stage
which on occasion returns back to the
launch site so we really need to
understand what's going on with those l
ings in the case of the Starliner the
issues were firmly on Starliner side not
on Atlas 5 so in this case specifically
Atlas 5 wouldn't be affected but
Starliner might be on the flip side if
Falcon 9 is grounded realistically
dragon is also grounded and that's not
for any licensing or regulation reason
it's just because dragon is only
designed to launch on Falcon 9 so in
this case a problem with a launcher
could affect the ability to launch a
spacecraft all right beyond that I I
think we can all agree that launching
Rockets safely is a very important thing
so the question becomes who is
responsible for the safety On Any Given
launch and that actually comes down to
who the launch is for in the United
States it could be NASA it could be the
department of fence or it could be the
FAA I mean the FAA comes right out and
says the FAA does not license launches
or re-entries by and for the United
States government now this goes all the
way back to 1984 when the commercial
space launch Act began to separate the
concept of commercial launches from
governmental launches or or military
launches in fact the first commercial
launch was in 1989 it was a Starfire
suborbital vehicle that was licensed
there but if you look at the big NASA
launcher that operated all those years
the space shuttle none of the space
shuttle missions were managed by the FAA
they were all managed by NASA and some
military satellites like spy satellites
nrol that sort of stuff you'll see
actually get the responsibility from the
Department of defense so this was all
fine in the 9s and 2000s when the launch
Cadence was sort of like doing its thing
but look at today where the launch
Cadence has literally gone in the
stratosphere I mean technically goes
through the stratosphere whatever the
important thing is that somebody has to
be responsible for making sure we're
doing the launches in a safe manner but
does it actually happen this way well
you can look for yourself if you look
down in the description or over in the
comments you'll actually find a link to
the faa's commercial space transport
data website you can click through it
yourself you can look through all the
different licenses and counts and stuff
all the way back to 1989 through the
present launches that are launching
right now so let's go through an
exercise here you can do it yourself or
or I'll do it here look through the web
page and see if you can't find
inspiration 4 it's pretty solidly
commercial space mission
right there it is you can see that it
was licensed by the FAA all right let's
try a crew mission like SpaceX crew
7 also there licensed by the FAA but
wait you might say wasn't that a mission
for NASA good point hold on we'll
explain it now let's look up dragon demo
1 is Dragon demo 1 in this
database it's not that one wasn't
licensed by the
FAA so some things we can talk about
there but first let's mosy on over and
look at the re-entries yep the
re-entries are there as well can you
find Starliner
there nope but how about Polaris
Dawn there it
is but here's a real doy right remember
the crew capsule Orion supposed to fly
on SLS go around the Moon part of the
Artemis program but its first demo
flight wasn't actually a board SLS it
was on a Delta 4 heavy do you think
that's going to be in the list or not
interestingly even though this Orion
flight was aboard a United launch
Alliance Delta 4 heavy rocket for a NASA
Mission It was a commercial provider
testing A system that they would use for
NASA it wasn't actually for NASA so that
one was licensed by the
FAA take a minute and think about how
that would apply to maybe Starship in
its role in the Artemis program so
anyways by clicking around the FAA
website you can you can see what
launches and what re-entries they're
actually licensing and ones you might
think would be in there that aren't
actually in there because somebody else
has responsibility for the safety on
that that mission plus it's kind of cool
to see the increased launch Cadence the
little ramp on the graph there at the
end in recent years as a space fan
that's nice to see now I will point out
that even if the FAA doesn't license a
launch they still help with the launch
process I mean think about the the
notice to air missions and clearing the
airspace so that maybe a NASA licensed
launch can launch through airspace
that's been cleared by the FAA even
though the FAA is not licensing that
mission so they can still be involved
and they can still assist with the
launch process even though they not the
one sort of in charge of the safety in
fact they actually said uh FAA does
provide airspace integration for launch
and re-entry as we do for all licensed
and non-licensed space operations
occurring in the US national airspace
system sounds very official but it's a
whole thing making sure commercial
flight patterns aren't going through
launch zones when it's time to launch
rockets but that leads me to a really
interesting question if somebody needs
to be responsible for safety and it can
be NASA or it can be the dod or it can
be the FAA
who gets to
decide I mean does NASA just roll up and
say nah we got this we're going to we're
going to go ahead and certify this one
well actually yeah that's kind of how it
works the top level agencies NASA and
the Department of Defense sort of have
like a first option to to sponsor or
take responsibility for the safety of a
launch and if they don't take that
responsibility then it falls to the FAA
to make sure that somebody's on the
watch looking out for Public Safety but
don't take my word for it here's Dan
from the FAA helping explain it to me
basically the question comes down is who
is is overseeing the public safety uh we
don't need duplication we don't need
multiple agencies all looking at the
same thing only one agency needs to do
it and DOD can do it NASA can do it we
can do it um but there's kind of an
agreement with regard to the way the
service is being procured where we
decide it's oh it's commercial it's FAA
or it's not going to be commercial it's
it's DOD or NASA does NASA get to decide
like okay no this is a NASA rocket we
don't need the FAA for that one or do
they ask the fa hey do we need you for
this one like who makes that decision
ultimately it's the dod or or NASA um
deciding very early on usually uh in the
in the life of the program uh that they
either want to be responsible for the
safety oversight of it or or they're
willing to to let uh the fa do that now
if you keep digging around for
regulations you might find some things
that are sort of outside the the focus
of this video like did you know that in
order to be the pilot of a spacecraft
you actually need to have a pilot's
license with an instrument rating and
also the FAA has some regulations around
making sure that uh passengers are
trained on Safety Systems if they're
riding aboard a spacecraft but the thing
I want to focus on is who's responsible
for looking after the safety so let's
dig into some specifics right let's go
over to the dragon demo flights if you
look at these the first demo flights
were all under NASA's responsibility I
mean Dragon demo 1 back in March of 2019
was an uncrewed test flight that was
sort of sponsored by NASA moving on to
Dragon demo 2 in May of 2020 that one
had crew aboard but it was still under
NASA not the FAA and then you reached
the third flight of dragon crew one the
first operational flight of dragon now
here NASA actually made a specific point
of pointing this out in a press
conference the the big milestone here is
that we are now moving uh away from
development and test and into
operational flights uh and in fact uh
this operational flight was licensed by
the FAA so this is a truly a commercial
launch vehicle and we're grateful to our
partners at SpaceX for providing it and
our partners at the FAA for licensing it
and from there on out all of the
operational missions of dragon were
licensed by the FAA as commercial
missions with NASA as the customer not
as NASA missions under NASA's Safety
Authority I mean Crew 2 345 Etc but also
the Axia missions inspiration 4 in
Polaris and this is intentional the way
the commercial crew program is set up
NASA takes responsibility during the
early demo experimental missions but
then when the spacecraft system moves to
an operational status they give that to
the FAA to continue commercial
operations where NASA is just another
customer it's actually why they set up
the whole commercial crew idea this way
I mean hey make a spacecraft we'll help
you get it started sell it to other
people and sell it to us too to help
Drive some cross down we'll just be a
customer for you and you see SpaceX
doing exactly that which you love to see
now timeout you may say some of those
Dragon missions had issues well that
might be true but none of the issues
Rose to the level of requiring a mishap
investigation so even though dragon is
operating commercially you haven't seen
any anomaly investigations required for
Dragon to date so to sum it up NASA
helped Dragon get going and now SpaceX
offers Dragon to other entities as a
commercial service it's fantastic I just
wish that I could afford one all right
that's all great but where are we with
Starliner Starliner is on flight three
by flight three dragon was operating as
a commercial spacecraft but remember the
first Starliner flight had some pretty
big problems back during o1 in December
of 2019 Starliner was UN crude but it
had some massive problems with a
disagreement in the clocks that kept it
from reaching the International Space
Station in fact NASA was on the hooks
for safety there and they required
another flight uncrewed out of Starliner
before they would proceed with the
program
that occurred in May of 2022 and it made
it to the International Space Station
without crew but it was plagued with
Thruster problems as well so fast
forward to June of 2024 when NASA
authorized the crude flight test for
Starliner that's when Bush and sunny
went up to the International Space
Station but once again Starliner had
Thruster issues remember NASA's still on
the hook at this point they have not
certified Starliner for commercial
operations the FAA hasn't commercially
licensed Starliner or licensed Starliner
in any way shape or form it's all still
NASA so even though Starliner made it
all the way back home ostensibly safety
and could have carried astronauts this
is still on NASA NASA hasn't certified
Starliner for the next step we don't
even know what NASA is going to require
out of the next flight of Starliner but
the important point is the FAA hasn't
licensed Starliner it hasn't even made
it to those commercial licensing Gates
yet because it hasn't completed a
successful mission under NASA's guidance
I mean will NASA actually certify
starlander to move forward as of right
now that's unknown there's been no
official statement as to whether or not
NASA's going to require another flight
or move into the next phase who knows I
think the timeline is a little
bit uh we're going to take our time to
figure out what we need to do to go fly
Starliner one right um it'll take a
little time to lay that out and then get
into the testing and then you know I
think we'll see where we're at in
another month or so we'll have a little
bit better idea of what the overall
schedule will be so when or more likely
if Starliner actually moves into an
operational or commercial phase it's
going to have to go through all of these
same Gates and all of these same Hoops
to get a commercial license from the FAA
and I really don't see that happening
until NASA certifies it I mean NASA
needs to be happy with it as a
spacecraft before anybody else should be
happy with it but in any event I'm not
entirely sure we're going to see
customers banging down Boeing's doors
asking for commercial flights on
Starliner but the important thing here
why did the FAA require anomaly
investigations for Falcon 9 on two
separate occasions but we haven't heard
a peep about them requiring an anomaly
investigation for Starliner is because
the FAA hasn't licensed Starliner in the
first place that still firmly rest on
the shoulders of NASA and we're going to
have to look to them for the future of
Starliner so I hope that clears up some
of y'all's questions down in the YouTube
comments I really do read through all
the comments and while a lot of the
times the comments are pretty sometimes
yall have really good questions and I
want to go out and actually find the
answers for you cuz I get to learn as
well quick thanks to our friends Maria
and Alice over at T-minus Space daily
podcast for coordinating the FAA
interview if you're looking for a daily
dose of detailed news and insights on
the evolving space Market check them out
there's a link down in the description
and also big thanks to the FAA for
actually sitting down down and letting
me just ask questions so that I could
better understand this and share the
information with youall my name is John
Galloway for NASA space flight and I'll
see you nerds later thanks for watching
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