When JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon Speaks, the World Listens | The Circuit

Summary

In this interview, Jamie Dimon, CEO of JP Morgan Chase, shares insights on his leadership during times of economic uncertainty, his commitment to family and work-life balance, and the role of JP Morgan in global finance. He discusses the importance of being prepared for crises, the impact of technology like AI on banking, and geopolitical risks including the US-China relationship. Dimon also reflects on his upbringing, his long-term views on various topics, and the future of the banking industry.

Takeaways

• 🏦 Jamie Dimon has been the CEO of JP Morgan Chase since 2005, leading it to become the world's biggest bank by market cap.
• 📈 The bank reported a record profit of $49.6 billion in 2023, highlighting its significant impact on the global economy.
• 🤝 Dimon is known for his hands-on approach and his belief in the importance of personal connections, often traveling extensively for business.
• 🌐 He emphasizes the necessity of JP Morgan's size to effectively serve its wide range of clients, including countries and international organizations.
• 👨‍👧‍👦 Dimon shares his family values, mentioning his role as a father and grandfather, and the importance of work-life balance.
• 💡 He discusses the influence of AI on the banking industry, acknowledging its potential to transform processes and replace certain jobs, but also its risks if misused.
• 🌐 Dimon expresses concern over geopolitical tensions, particularly with China, and the importance of strong American leadership on the global stage.
• 💼 He speaks about the importance of risk management in banking, advocating for preparedness and a cautious approach to avoid over-leveraging.
• 🚀 Dimon hints at the potential of 'mini super apps' in the US, inspired by the all-encompassing apps in China, which integrate various services for users.
• 💡 On the topic of cryptocurrency, Dimon remains skeptical, viewing Bitcoin as a fraud and a Ponzi scheme, but acknowledges the potential of blockchain in certain applications.
• 🏆 Despite his long tenure, Dimon shows no signs of slowing down and continues to focus on the success of JP Morgan and its role in the US economy.

Q & A

Who is Jamie Dimon and what is his role in the banking industry?

Jamie Dimon is the CEO of JP Morgan Chase since 2005, which is the world's biggest bank by market cap. He is widely regarded as a stabilizing force in the financial industry and has been instrumental in navigating through various economic challenges.

What is Jamie Dimon's view on Bitcoin and similar cryptocurrencies?

Jamie Dimon has expressed a negative view on Bitcoin, stating that he could care less about its trading value and considers it a speculative asset that those who buy it will eventually pay the price for.

How does Jamie Dimon describe his approach to travel and work-life balance?

Dimon mentions that he travels extensively, logging around 120 nights on the road in a year. He tries to maintain a binary life focused on work and family, avoiding black-tie events and red carpets to keep a balance.

What is Jamie Dimon's perspective on the importance of family in his life?

Dimon emphasizes the importance of family in his life, mentioning his four daughters and seven grandchildren. He actively participates in family life, including babysitting and spending quality time with his family.

How does Jamie Dimon view the role of JP Morgan Chase in the global economy?

Dimon views JP Morgan Chase as a crucial player in the global economy, moving trillions of dollars around the world daily and banking for countries, the World Bank, the IMF, and the United States government.

What is Jamie Dimon's stance on the potential impact of AI and FinTech on traditional banking?

Dimon acknowledges the transformative power of technology but maintains that traditional banking services will still be necessary. He believes that while AI and FinTech may disintermediate some aspects of banking, the core functions of money management will persist.

How does Jamie Dimon perceive the geopolitical landscape and its impact on the global economy?

Dimon expresses concern about the current geopolitical tensions, particularly with China, and sees it as a significant risk factor. He emphasizes the importance of good American leadership in navigating these challenges.

What is Jamie Dimon's long-term view on China's role in global affairs?

Dimon believes that China will be okay in the long term but stresses the need for strong American leadership. He also acknowledges that China has its own set of issues and is not an invincible giant.

How does Jamie Dimon approach risk management within JP Morgan Chase?

Dimon focuses on being prepared for a range of outcomes and emphasizes the importance of capital and liquidity. He believes in being ready for various scenarios, including geopolitical crises and cyber threats.

What advice would Jamie Dimon give to his younger self regarding work and life?

Dimon advises his younger self to work hard but also smart, to think carefully, and to have a process in place for decision making. He also emphasizes the importance of not letting emotions like temper get in the way of effective decision-making.

What are Jamie Dimon's thoughts on succession and his legacy at JP Morgan Chase?

While Dimon is aware of the looming question of succession, he has not announced any official plans. He hopes that his legacy will be one of creating opportunities and making the world a better place for both the bank and its clients.

Outlines

00:00

🤝 Introduction to Jamie Dimon: Banking Titan

This paragraph introduces the setting and subject of the video script, Jamie Dimon, the CEO of JP Morgan Chase since 2005. Described as a 'rock' in the world of finance, Dimon is recognized for his leadership during times of economic uncertainty. The paragraph sets the stage for an exploration of his broader philosophy and principles that guide his decision-making, both as a leader in banking and as a family man.

05:02

🌐 Global Influence and Personal Life of Jamie Dimon

The second paragraph delves into Jamie Dimon's global influence as the head of the world's biggest bank and his frequent interactions with world leaders. It highlights his commitment to improving the economy and society, as well as his personal life, including his family and his role as a father and grandfather. The paragraph also touches on his travel habits and the importance of maintaining a work-life balance.

10:03

🏦 JP Morgan's Role in the Economy and Dimon's Leadership

This paragraph discusses the significant role of JP Morgan Chase in the global economy, with a record profit in 2023 and its crucial part in stabilizing the financial crisis of 2008. It also addresses the bank's response to recent financial challenges, such as the collapse of Silicon Valley Bank and First Republic. The paragraph emphasizes Dimon's leadership and his approach to risk management, emphasizing the importance of preparedness and the cautious strategy of maintaining a 'fortress balance sheet'.

15:05

🤖 The Impact of AI and FinTech on Traditional Banking

The fourth paragraph explores the potential impact of AI and FinTech on the banking industry, with Dimon acknowledging the transformative power of technology while also defending the enduring need for banking services. He discusses the possibility of tech companies entering the banking space and the competitive landscape, including the potential of 'super apps' and the integration of AI in various banking processes.

20:07

🕊️ Geopolitical Tensions and the Future of Global Relations

In this paragraph, the focus shifts to the geopolitical challenges affecting global economic ties, with a particular emphasis on the relationship between the US and China. Dimon expresses cautious optimism but also warns of the dangers of the current times, including the potential ripple effects of conflicts and the importance of American leadership in navigating these challenges.

🔮 Dimon's Long-Term Views and His Legacy

The final paragraph wraps up the script with Dimon's long-term views on various topics, including China, crypto, and American leadership. It also touches on his personal reflections, offering advice to his younger self and expressing his hopes for his legacy, both within JP Morgan and in the broader world. The paragraph concludes with a light-hearted exchange about the possibility of Dimon running for office.

Keywords

💡Jamie Dimon

Jamie Dimon is the Chairman and CEO of JP Morgan Chase, one of the largest banks in the world. He is a central figure in the video, representing the leadership and influence in the banking industry. His name is synonymous with the bank's success and his views on finance and economy are highly regarded. The script mentions him as 'an institution' and 'a rock in the storms of 21st-century finance'.

💡JP Morgan Chase

JP Morgan Chase is the world's biggest bank by market cap and is led by Jamie Dimon. It plays a significant role in the global economy, moving trillions of dollars daily and banking in multiple countries. The video discusses the bank's size and influence, as well as its role during the 2008 financial crisis and more recent events like the collapse of Silicon Valley Bank.

💡Financial Crisis

The term 'financial crisis' refers to a situation where the value of assets drops dramatically, threatening the solvency of financial institutions. The video mentions the 2008 financial crisis, highlighting JP Morgan's role in mitigating its effects and the importance of cautious investing practices that Dimon advocates.

💡Bitcoin

Bitcoin is a digital currency that operates independently of a central bank. In the script, Dimon expresses skepticism about Bitcoin, referring to it as something that 'if you're stupid enough to buy it, you'll pay the price for it one day,' reflecting his critical view of cryptocurrencies as speculative investments.

💡Risk Management

Risk management is the process of identifying, assessing, and prioritizing risks to minimize or avoid potential negative impacts. The video emphasizes the importance of risk management in banking, with Dimon discussing the need to prepare for a range of outcomes and the importance of capital and liquidity.

💡Artificial Intelligence (AI)

AI refers to the simulation of human intelligence in machines that can perform tasks like learning and problem-solving. The video discusses AI's potential to revolutionize banking, with Dimon acknowledging its transformative power while also expressing concerns about its misuse by bad actors.

💡Cybersecurity

Cybersecurity is the practice of protecting systems, networks, and programs from digital attacks. The script touches on the threat AI poses in the context of cyber-attacks, where bad actors could use advanced technologies to compromise systems, a concern that Dimon voices.

💡Geopolitics

Geopolitics involves the effects of political and economic processes on international relations. The video mentions the impact of geopolitical tensions, particularly between the US, Russia, and China, on the global economy and how these tensions could potentially disrupt economic ties.

💡Succession

Succession refers to the process of passing on authority or power to a successor. The video hints at the looming question of Dimon's succession at JP Morgan Chase, noting his long tenure and the impact of his leadership on the bank's success.

💡Blockchain

Blockchain is a distributed ledger technology that records transactions across multiple computers, ensuring security and transparency. The script differentiates between cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and blockchain technology, with Dimon suggesting that while the former may be a fraud, the latter has potential in smart contracts and other applications.

💡American Leadership

American leadership in the context of the video refers to the role the United States plays in global affairs and its influence on world events. Dimon discusses the importance of strong American leadership for global security and the need for the country to maintain its influence through diplomacy, finance, and other non-military means.

Highlights

Jamie Dimon, CEO of JP Morgan Chase since 2005, is considered a stabilizing force in global finance.

Dimon's leadership is highlighted by his ability to navigate uncertainty and his influence in the US and global economy.

Despite his high profile, Dimon maintains a hands-on approach, traveling extensively for business and personal growth.

Dimon's family life is a significant part of his identity, balancing his role as a father and grandfather with his professional responsibilities.

JP Morgan Chase's record profits in 2023, reaching $49.6 billion, underscore the bank's impact on global economies.

Dimon discusses the importance of bank size for serving large-scale clients and the necessity of being 'big' in certain financial sectors.

The role of JP Morgan in global finance includes banking for countries, international organizations, and governments.

Dimon's personal philosophy on wielding power involves being open-minded, learning from global experiences, and contributing positively to society.

Dimon's upbringing in Queens, NY, influenced his interest in finance and his approach to business.

JP Morgan's cautious investment strategy during the 2008 financial crisis positioned the bank for success and growth.

Dimon defends the importance of banks and financial institutions as a force for good in society.

The 'fortress balance sheet' strategy employed by Dimon focuses on caution and preparedness to withstand economic shocks.

AI and technology are transforming the banking industry, with JP Morgan actively investing in AI for various financial processes.

Dimon expresses concerns about the potential misuse of AI by malicious actors, emphasizing the need for legal guardrails.

Geopolitical tensions, particularly with China, are identified as significant risks to global economic stability.

Dimon emphasizes the importance of American leadership on the world stage, particularly in relation to global security and diplomacy.

Succession at JP Morgan Chase is a looming question, with Dimon's long tenure and significant impact on the bank's future.

Dimon's advice for his younger self and others includes working smart, being thoughtful, and maintaining a balanced life.

Transcripts

I am here in London.

It is a bustling Monday morning

and I'm about to go meet one of the titans of banking.

Hello. You guys love these

meet and greets.

We do.

How are you?

It's good to have a good handshake.

Have we ever met, like, I feel like I met you

because I've seen you so many times.

Vice Versa.

Jamie Dimon is an institution.

Since 2005, he's been the head of

the world's biggest bank,

JP Morgan Chase.

He's widely seen as a rock in the storms

of 21st century finance

and even at times a kind of guardian

of the US and global economy.

He's a leader and he understands the importance

of stepping up at a time where there's great uncertainty.

This country's a lot better off

because Jamie Dimon has been running JP

Morgan.

He's also a highly visible

figurehead in the banking world.

Always in demand for media appearances

where he reliably delivers hot takes on the current thing.

I could care less what Bitcoin trades for.

How trades, wire trades, who trades it.

If you're stupid enough to buy it,

you'll pay the price for it one day.

Dimon always seems to be ready

with blunt insight into the events of the moment,

but I wanted to zoom out

and talk about his broader philosophy

to learn about the principles that guide the decision making

of this incredibly influential person,

a family man from Queens who's at least

as invested in being a dad

and a grandpa as he is in shaping the global economy.

So you're on the road, how, how often?

I, I say actually we checked last year

as like 120 nights or something like that.

But some of it's covid catch up.

I feel like I need to visit people.

Right.

And all these conferences are on again.

And, and of course I'm here.

I do more than just this conference, so. Right.

Do you have any travel hacks?

What does that mean? You know, ways

to make your life easier?

Yes.

Well, I, I try when I land, when I exercise, when I eat,

when I don't get tortured by people.

You have a lot of folks from Bloomberg here.

This is the Jamie Dimon treatment.

Exactly. So how long have you been at Bloomberg? I

Have been at Bloomberg 13 years.

Where are you from? I'm from Hawaii originally.

Hawaii, yeah.

And married. Married children,

Four kids.

Holy moly. Yeah. How do you do it?

What do you mean? How did you juggle it all?

I pretty much had a binary life.

I worked and family, so you didn't see me in black ties

and red carpets and very rare stuff like that.

So big family life.

I know, I've heard you're a family man. Yeah.

How old are your daughters now?

38, 36, 34 and seven grandkids, six girls

and finally a boy.

Do you babysit? Yeah.

My wife does more than I do, but I do. We do it together.

They come over sleepovers and all that kind of

Stuff.

Any, any parenting advice?

Just love them. Yeah.

Yeah. So what do you like to do with your daughters now?

Everything. We barbecue, we eat, we go to restaurants,

we travel, we listen to music, we do wine.

I love my son-in-laws. It's

Quite the test going to meet Jamie Dimon

as your future Father-in-Law.

They, they have no problem. I'd be shaking in my boots

And God knows if I ever say something where I wrong,

they correct me just like they like

fighting me wrong about something.

If that sounds modest.

Well, there's nothing modest about Dimon's.

Professional life. JP Morgan Chase is the world's biggest

bank by market cap

and one of the biggest companies of any kind.

In 2023, they set a record for the most profits

of any US bank ever.

$49.6 billion.

It's no exaggeration to say

that entire economies depend on this bank.

JP Morgan played a crucial role in stopping the bleeding

during the 2008 financial crisis.

The better we do here, the better

be for the United States economy

And more recently stepped

to mitigate the damage from the collapse

of Silicon Valley Bank and First Republic.

Dimon regularly speaks with prime ministers

and presidents around the world

and there's been plenty of speculation he might

run for office someday.

All this translates into a great deal

of power and influence.

You've built a bank that's $4 trillion

in assets and counting.

How big is too big?

I think the question is what works for consumers

and industries and stuff like that?

So, you know, if you want to build a Boeing aircraft,

you have to be big.

You can pretend that you don't.

If you wanna do what JP Morgan does, we move $10 trillion

of money around the world every day.

We bank some of these companies in 30 countries.

We bank countries, we bank the World Bank, the IMF,

we bank the United States government.

You have to be big. You can't do those things and be small.

I applaud the small banks.

We, we are the biggest bank to community banks and,

and regional banks and stuff like that.

And I understand, you know, some

of the stress they're under, we're trying to help.

So it's not either or.

So going a little bigger picture now,

you run the biggest bank in the world, you have our money,

you've got world leaders on speed dial.

That's a lot of power.

How do you decide when and how to wield that power?

Yeah, I'm not sure I have a lot of people on speed do,

so you, you say all that.

Sometimes I think I'm just riding the Bronco

and hanging on for deal life.

I, you know, I love what I do. I try to talk to everyone.

I try to keep my mind open.

I, one of the benefits from traveling the world, you know,

is just in Mumbai and, and Switzerland

and seeing clients, you learn a lot

and you try to make sure you're,

that you're doing the proper assessment of the world.

You're that you're looking at the options.

You're not like just saying we're gonna do this.

I look at it as part of our job to try to have countries

to help countries do the best they can for their citizens.

So we bank countries.

We also advise them on skills and trade and economics.

You look at our research, it's a lot around

how does an economy run.

So when you go to, like when I got back from Mumbai,

we research 150 companies now or something like that.

So we're educating the world about those companies.

We're educating the world about the Indian economy.

As we do that, we educate, also educate the Indians about

what works in their economy and what doesn't work.

And those are important things to lift up society.

You've got this reputation as a sort

of white knight for the economy.

Do you ever feel pressure to come in with the save?

I feel a tremendous amount of pressure to do.

Obviously my family comes first, okay.

But to do a great job for my company

and our clients, I also feel a huge burden

to do a good job for my country.

So, you know, when my country wants me to do something

and we talk all the time to, you know, the senators

and regulators, what can we do to make the system better?

To lift up the country, lift up in the cities.

We're trying to figure out how to make society better

and I do consider that part of our job.

You grew up talking finance at the kitchen table as a kid.

What was it like growing up Jamie Dimon?

What do you think prepared you for all this?

Well,

I grew up in Jackson Height, Queens

and my grandparents three were Greek immigrants.

One was born here. I don't think any

of the four finished high school.

It was a loud table, people arguing and stuff like that.

But my parents were, while my dad was a stockbroker,

you know, I was the only one that took interest in

that reading the paper, understanding.

I bought a stock when I was 12, 13, or 14.

You know, they didn't ask us to go into finance.

So my older brother's a

physicist, my other brother's a teacher.

And so it was basically do the best you can,

make the world a better place, treat everyone with respect,

have a purpose in life.

It was more around that, but a lot

of intellectual debate at the table.

Dimon quickly rose through the ranks of finance

right out of Harvard Business School.

He became the protege of his dad's boss, Sandy Wild,

a legendary banking deal.

Dealmaker, Dimon

and Weill oversaw a series of massive bank mergers together

through the eighties and nineties until in 1998.

Weill forced Dimon out of Citigroup

and Dimon struck out on his own.

Dimon landed on his feet as chief executive

of Chicago based bank one when Bank one was acquired

by JP Morgan Chase in 2004,

Dimon quickly ascended to the top spot.

Just a couple years later in 2007,

Dimon warned shareholders

that the bank was seeing trouble in its

subprime mortgage business.

When the financial crisis hit.

JP Morgan's relatively cautious investing approach meant

that they were able to help avert catastrophe

by acquiring the struggling Bear Stearns

and Washington Mutual.

That saved the government billions in bailouts

and made chase the biggest commercial bank in America.

Though American banks came in

for some well-deserved criticism during this time.

Dimon emerged as a staunch defender of JP Morgan

and the financial system as a whole, as a force for good

224,000 employees.

We give healthcare to 4,000 people.

We pay $10 million a year in federal taxes.

Over the last five years we've given

$600 million to organizations.

This is a terrific company.

And when I hear the constant vilification

of corporate America, I personally don't understand it

and I'm, I would, I would ask a lot of our

folks in government to stop doing it.

'cause I think it's just hurting our country at this point.

More crises would follow.

In 2012, a rogue JP Morgan trader nicknamed the London

whale, lost the company more than $6 billion,

putting the harsh spotlight of scandal on Dimon

and calling his leadership into question.

But Dimon weathered it all, keeping the top job, even

as other top US banks have gone

through multiple CEOs along the way.

He became a billionaire, a rarity among banking executives.

Many attribute Dimon's success to what's known

as the fortress balance sheet.

Essentially he takes the cautious approach, never getting

so over-leverage

that the bank can't withstand a major unforeseen shock.

The strategy has been criticized

for leaving profits on the table,

but it looks pretty smart when a crisis comes along.

Going way back, I used

to do a presentation on financial crises.

You know, going back to those blow ups in Ginnie Mays,

Penn Central commercial paper.

The 87 crash. The 90 recession, the 74 recession.

And if you make a list of all those things, you realize,

and I'm not making fun of every, they happen all the time.

And the best preparation is in our business capital

and liquidity, which Dodd-Frank improved.

We already had a lot be prepared.

You know, you, you can't be prepared after the fact.

You gotta be prepared before the fact.

When I talk about risk management,

it's always about the range of outcomes we handle them and

and beyond that we talk about geopolitical crises, cyber,

you know, I put cyber, you gotta be prepared for that stuff

and it does happen and it's gonna surprise you one day.

Just like, you know, am I surprised if oil,

well I'd be surprised if oil goes to one 50.

I will not. Yeah, it can easily happen if a bunch

of factors fall a certain way.

So, so the best thing is be prepared for any business.

Think when you think about risk, think about things

that can go terribly wrong.

Can you survive them? You know, it could be technology,

it could be government regulations, it could be,

it could be the, literally the weather.

If you're a restaurant, you know, that might close you down

if you know, if you lose this week's

business, you're outta business.

You have enough cash. So you should think all that through.

Bill Gates once said banking is necessary, banks are not.

To what extent could AI

or FinTech replace traditional banks?

So I think first of all, I remember him

saying banks are dinosaurs.

I spoke to him about it in 1997

and he obviously he was dead wrong.

He'd probably agree to that but, but he's not wrong.

That technology changes everything.

And if anyone is complacent or arrogant or think that

because you have a big position today,

you're gonna have a big position tomorrow.

That's a mistake.

And, but then you have this fine, what is banking?

Someone's gonna have to hold the money, someone's gonna have

to move the money, someone's gonna have to raise the money.

So's have to do research, you know, re about around money.

Those services will still be around

and you know, hopefully we're doing it

and using a lot of tech to do a better job at it.

But I've always thought it's very possible

that some tech thing disintermediates a piece of that

and I've been writing about, you know,

big tech go to our business.

We've got FinTech, but we also have big tech

and they will embed payment systems in there

and some are gonna white label banks,

kind of what Apple did.

You know they have the right to do that.

I'm not against that. I would be against unfair use

of their position to dominate us in a business.

Well Apple is, is going deeper into financial services.

There's no question. Do you worry about the

bank of Apple? Well

I'm, we're gonna compete.

So they have a, they have a tough competitor

but you know, they hold money.

Move money. Yeah, they're a form of a competitor.

You know, we also partner with them.

But I'm very used to partnering

and competing with lots of people.

Existential threat. I don't think it's an existential

threat, but I think if we were complacent about it, yes,

Still as with most industries,

an AI revolution is coming for finance.

The question is how much about banking will change?

Some predict AI will enable us

to put our money on autopilot, telling you where to invest,

planning your retirement and even filing your taxes.

I know you mentioned chat GPT in your

annual letter. Have you tried it?

Yeah, if I had my phone, I'd show you.

What do you, what do you use it for?

I just ask you questions Like what?

I don't remember I'm what's Emily Chang gonna ask me?

You've got a top-notch group investigating ai.

What are they up to? What's the next level

of finance you think AI can unlock?

Yeah, so I think the most important thing is

that it's AI is real.

We already have thousands of people doing it.

Top scientists around the world, Manuel Veloso from

who ran Carnegie Mellon Machine learning

and it's a living, breathing thing.

So people want to answer what's it gonna do?

It's a living breathing thing.

It's gonna change, there're gonna be all different types

of models and different types of tools and technology.

But the way to think about for us is every single process.

So errors, trading, hedging, research, every app,

every database, you're gonna be applying ai.

So it might be as a copilot it might be to replace humans.

Like you know, AI is doing all the equity hedging for us,

for the most part it's idea generation,

it's large language models.

It's note taking while you're talking to someone.

And while I was taking notes it may actually say to you

that, you know, here's the thing of interest,

the client might be interested in all error,

all customer service. It's a little bit of everything,

But it is gonna replace some jobs.

Of course. Yeah. But I, I look folks PE people have

to take a deep breath, okay?

Technology's always replace jobs.

Your children live to a hundred and not have cancer

because of technology and literally they'll probably be

working three and a half days a week.

So technology's done unbelievable things for mankind.

But you know, planes crash, pharmaceutical get misused.

There are negatives. This one,

the biggest negative in my view is AI being used

by bad people to do bad things.

Think of cyber. But you know, the fact,

and I do think, you know, eventually have legal guardrails

around it, it's kind of hard to do 'cause it's new

but it will add a huge value.

And you know, for JP Morgan, if it replaces jobs, you know,

we hope to redeploy people.

So is that gonna be a point where I can turn to chat JPM

and say I have 30 years or I wanna get rich quick.

What should I do with my money?

Well the rich quick, I hope it tells

you that you're crazy.

Yeah, but we in some ways can do a little bit already today.

And you know, usually if you look at like wealth plans

that we have, which I think are quite good, they have a lot

of AI embedded in that, you know,

or analytics embedded in that.

And if sooner have more ai, all

that AI's gonna do is know more about you,

learn more about you look at patterns

and you know, look at successful things in the past

and yeah, so AI will be a huge aid to things like that.

Interesting. Yeah. So do you see like a finance super app

in our future or?

Yeah, you already have that a little bit.

So 10 years ago I took the people who ran retail,

Gordon Smith and a whole team.

I said, you're getting an

airplane and you're going to China.

And they said, why we're American?

I said, go to China, you know, and they went to Pingan

and Tencent and WeChat and Alipay and all that

and they had all the super apps.

I made them come back and do a big chart of super apps.

All the services they do,

What they do is a whole heck of a lot.

WeChat for example, combines text messaging,

a social network and a widely used mobile payment system

and has over 1.2 billion active users.

The kind of ubiquity most American companies

can only dream of.

So I think in America it won't be a super app, it'll be,

I'm gonna call 'em mini super apps.

So you might, it's like you can already do a lot of stuff

with us around money, but that's why we do travel.

It's an adjacency, it's not just a credit card.

Now we want to offer you great travel

and great hotels and great restaurants.

And so there are all these adjacencies on everything we do

that will be, are tech driven

and will be increasingly AI driven.

What's your biggest AI fear?

Well, I think Henry Kissinger, Eric Schmidt wrote a book

about, you know, if it gets used in weapons,

but it, you know, and that obviously could be terrifying if

it's deciding who the enemy is.

And then, you know, obviously it's gonna be used in cyber,

bad guys will use AI and well, I think we need guardrails.

No one knows exactly what they should be yet,

but it's not gonna stop bad guys.

So we gotta think through the guardrails here.

You want to have plenty of innovation, you need guardrails.

Like, you know, maybe it'll tell you at the bottom

of something, this is generated by ai

but the bad guys still use it.

And the question is how we're gonna, I'm a

little concerned about that.

While AI is changing, the technology

of banking geopolitics is creating a different kind

of disruption with tensions

between powerful countries like the US Russia

and China reaching a boiling point.

There are signs, the economic ties

that bind the world are starting to fray.

Dimon for his part strikes a tone

of cautious optimism about current events,

but warns that we're living in a very dangerous time.

Our conversation took place

before the recent outbreak of conflict in the Middle East,

which he said will create ripple effects that extend far

beyond the region.

Where's China on the list of risks?

When I say geopolitical, that's the big one.

It's the, it's the, it's the thread from Ukraine, oil

and gas, food migration, all our relationships.

The most important one being China.

That is the most important for the future of the world.

And, and obviously Ukraine is affecting it

and in fact it's very hard to see really positive outcomes

with China until the Ukraine war is resolved.

Hopefully whether Ukrainians could say they

have a victory of some sort.

You've said you're worried about another Trump

presidency, how worried

We look, we need good American leadership

and I think that we need to explain to people why they're

so important for the world, you know?

And so there's a little bit of this, you know, America first

and you know, no American president is gonna say America

second, but,

but what we need to explain is why Ukraine is important

to us and why American security relies on global security

and why our allies rely on that.

And if they can't rely on on America, they will have

to rely on someone else.

And so I just think it's very important.

You know, Bob Gates writes in his book The Exercise

of Power about the symphony of power and,

and all the soft things, not the military,

which we've overused,

but diplomacy, development, finance, education,

communication all

and obviously economic, trade, investment, all those things.

And I think we need a better job in that.

You're revered for your long-term view.

So I'd just like to tick through a few topics quickly

and get a quick sort of one sentence long-term view.

What's your long view on China?

It'll be okay, but we need really good American

leadership to do that.

And don't worry we, they're not a 10 foot giant,

they have a lot of issues.

America's got a lot of strains.

We should, I like the fact the American government's

talking to them constantly. Now

Crypto, If you mean crypto like Bitcoin,

I've always said it's a fraud. There

Are so no hope for it.

Well if it's, if they think there a

currency, there's no hope for it.

It's a Ponzi scheme, it's a public decentralized.

If it's a crypto coin that can do something like, you know,

a smart contract that has value,

there will be smart contracts and blockchain works.

So the extent crypto is accessing certain blockchain things,

yeah, that might have some value.

American leadership,

The most important thing for the

world in the next a hundred years.

Warren Buffet would tell you one

of the great things about America is our constant

resiliency, ability to adjust, adjust.

I mean we adjusted pretty quickly to bad covid

and then getting outta covid and,

and American leadership moves pretty quickly

and you know, autocratic leadership gets stasis.

So you gotta look at, yeah, sometimes democracies messy,

but it also allows change.

Dimon is 68

and the question of succession is looming in 2021.

He received a bonus to stay on for another five years.

And while various JP Morgan executives are rumored

to be in the running to replace him,

nothing official has been announced.

Given the success of Dimon's 18 year run,

no one is particularly eager for him to move on.

And for the moment he shows no signs of slowing down.

What advice would you give your 20-year-old self?

You have to work hard. I, that doesn't, but,

but, but work smart.

You know, a lot of people don't, they waste so much time

and they don't think carefully.

And there's a great quote,

I'm sorry I wrote you such a long letter,

I didn't have time to write a short one.

That's respect to people, you know,

you get your thoughts together, have a process in place

for decision making.

Don't allow yourself to become weaponized like at all.

Like, you know, or,

and don't, don't have it to the extent I have a temper.

It works against you. You always have to end up apologizing,

have a thought process around things that are complicated

and you, and you'll get better over life.

You don't have to answer everything all at once.

You know, I tell all people, Jade Morgan,

everyone should take your on their own, their mind,

their body, their spirit, their soul,

their friends, their family, their health.

They have to do that. It's part of their life.

If you mess that up, you know,

it makes everything else particularly hard.

So, and I heard a great speech from a woman once

who said you can have it all,

you just can have it all at the same time.

I like that advice. Yeah.

What else do you wanna accomplish in the world

aside from making your bank succeed?

Most important family

and I have three wonderful kids, two wonderful son-in-laws.

Seven great-grandkids.

That that is the most important, you know,

second most important is my country,

the United States of America.

I'm a red-blooded, full throated free enterprise American

patriot and, and don't misunderstand that.

And so therefore that is a big effort of mine personally

and my country stand.

The company stands behind that to the extent we should.

And then in the inside the company just,

I just hope people say, you know, we're gonna miss

the son of a bitch when he is gone.

And he made the world a better place

and he created opportunity

and for all of us and our clients.

You're sure you're not running for office?

I'm pretty sure I have.

I just spoke to some friends who left the US

who said if you ran, they'd come back.

I got four more votes.