HFS' Phil Fersht and Coforge's Sudhir Singh in a digi-side chat at the HFS Digital Symposium 2021
Summary
TLDRIn this insightful interview, Sudhir Singh, CEO of Coforge, discusses his journey to leadership, emphasizing the importance of impact and execution over strategy. He shares how Coforge navigated the pandemic, pivoting quickly to grow in areas like travel tech and healthcare, and the company's strategic rebranding during the crisis. Singh also touches on the increased demand for digital talent and the future of work, highlighting the central role of technology and the importance of diversity and ESG in post-pandemic business strategies.
Takeaways
- 😀 Sudhir Singh, CEO of Coforge, has successfully rebranded the company and navigated through the pandemic with strategic leadership.
- 📈 Coforge managed to grow during the pandemic, with a 6% increase in revenue, despite a significant portion of their business being in the hard-hit travel industry.
- 💼 Singh emphasizes the importance of understanding business deeply and executing strategy effectively, rather than just having a high-level view.
- 👥 The CEO role involves significant people management, including hiring, culture creation, and team building, which are crucial for the company's success.
- ⏰ Time management is a critical skill for a CEO, as there are many demands on their time from various stakeholders.
- 🎨 As a CEO, Singh finds satisfaction in the creative aspects of the role, such as building teams and cultures, and impacting people's lives through recognition and rewards.
- 🔄 Coforge pivoted quickly during the pandemic, focusing on other verticals like manufacturing and healthcare to diversify their business and mitigate risks.
- 🌐 The company has seen an accelerated demand for digital talent and is adapting its onshore and offshore delivery mix to meet market needs.
- 🌐 Singh discusses the establishment of on-site operating centers and the acceleration of their training engine to deploy more fresh graduates into the market.
- 🌟 The pandemic has highlighted the central role of technology in business, making it a non-discretionary spend and a key driver for business growth and risk mitigation.
- 🌐 There is a convergence of mindsets among leaders globally, with a focus on the importance of IT, risk mitigation, and the role of technology as a business enabler.
Q & A
What is the main advantage of digital summits mentioned in the script?
-The main advantage of digital summits mentioned is that everything can get done on time, unlike physical events where rounding up attendees from breaks can cause delays.
Who is Sudhir Singh and what is his role?
-Sudhir Singh is the CEO and Executive Director at Coforge. He has a background in IT services and has successfully rebranded the firm.
What was Sudhir Singh's career path before becoming CEO?
-Sudhir Singh started his career with Unilever in India, which was known as Levers at the time. He then worked his way up through the ranks in IT services, including a stint at Infosys, before becoming CEO at Coforge.
What advice does Sudhir Singh give to those aspiring to leadership roles?
-Sudhir advises aspiring leaders to deeply understand their business, prioritize execution over strategy, always think of the customer, and recognize that there is no one style of leadership that guarantees success. He also emphasizes the importance of impact and performance.
What surprised Sudhir Singh about the demands of being a CEO?
-Sudhir was surprised by how seriously people took him after his promotion, the increased observation of his every word and action, and the realization that there is no absolute control as a CEO, but rather accountability to various stakeholders.
How did Coforge perform during the pandemic, especially considering its significant revenue from the travel industry?
-Coforge performed well during the pandemic, with its other six businesses growing by 18.4%. The travel business also rebounded quickly, and the company as a whole, including the travel segment, grew by 6% through the year.
What strategic changes did Coforge make in response to the pandemic?
-Coforge pivoted quickly to focus on other verticals such as manufacturing and healthcare. They also emphasized logistics, travel tech, and travel platforms within the travel industry, and made significant investments in security, contactless payments, intelligent airport solutions, and cloud technology.
How did Coforge approach rebranding during the pandemic?
-Coforge chose the name Coforge to represent working together to create lasting value. The rebranding was done internally with a digital-only push, which resonated well with the audience during the pandemic.
What is Sudhir Singh's view on the future of work post-pandemic?
-Sudhir sees a dual track approach where there is an accelerated demand for digital talent and a need to move work closer on-site for certain business-critical aspects, while also consolidating and moving more work offshore.
What are the key learnings from the pandemic according to Sudhir Singh?
-The key learnings include the centrality of technology as a business driver and risk mitigator, the importance of diversity and ESG imperatives, and the non-discretionary nature of IT spend. Sudhir also notes that mindsets have shifted towards a more global perspective, making it difficult to differentiate between leaders based on their geographical location.
How does Sudhir Singh describe the impact of technology during the pandemic?
-Sudhir describes technology as having held the world together during the pandemic, emphasizing its role as a revenue enabler and a central part of business operations.
Outlines
🤝 Leadership Journey and IoT Impact
In this segment, the host introduces Sudhir Singh, CEO and Executive Director at Co-forge, emphasizing his rise through the ranks and successful rebranding of the firm. Sudhir reflects on his career, starting with Unilever in India, which was considered a 'CEO factory'. He discusses the importance of delivering impact at various points in one's career and acknowledges the role of luck in achieving a CEO position. Sudhir also shares his philosophy on leadership, emphasizing execution over strategy and the importance of understanding the business deeply. He advises aspiring leaders to know their business intimately, execute effectively, and prioritize customer-centric thinking.
🚀 Navigating the CEO Role and Pandemic Challenges
Sudhir Singh shares his experiences and surprises of being a CEO, including the heightened scrutiny that comes with the role and the need for circumspection in communication. He discusses the critical role of people management, hiring, and culture creation, and admits the myth of having absolute control as a CEO. He also talks about the importance of time management and the collaborative nature of the role. The conversation shifts to Co-forge's performance during the pandemic, highlighting the company's ability to pivot quickly, especially given the significant revenue from the travel industry. Sudhir explains how the company's other businesses grew by 18.4%, and the overall firm, including the travel business, grew by 6%.
🌐 Co-forge's Strategic Shifts Amidst Pandemic
The discussion continues with Sudhir outlining Co-forge's strategic responses to the pandemic. He mentions the rapid growth in the travel tech spend and the company's expansion into other verticals such as manufacturing and healthcare. Sudhir highlights the company's strong exit from the pandemic with a growth expectation of at least 17% and a performance basis target of $820 million. He also touches on the company's focus on logistics, travel tech, and platforms, and the significant spend on security, contactless payments, intelligent airports, and cloud technologies.
🎨 Co-forge's Rebranding and Market Adaptation
Sudhir describes the rebranding of Co-forge during the pandemic, explaining the choice of the name and the rationale behind it. He talks about the company's decision to conduct the entire rebranding exercise internally and the digital-only marketing push. Sudhir reflects on the timing of the rebranding, suggesting that the pandemic provided an opportunity for a new brand to be noticed. He also discusses the company's approach to localization and setting up on-site operating centers, as well as the acceleration of their offshore training engine.
🌟 Post-Pandemic Insights and Future Outlook
In the final segment, Sudhir shares his insights on the post-pandemic world, emphasizing the central role of technology as a business driver and differentiator. He notes the disappearance of the discretionary versus non-discretionary IT spend conversation and the universal understanding of technology stacks across various C-suite roles. Sudhir also discusses the importance of diversity and ESG imperatives in the new work models and the industry's approach to talent acquisition. He concludes by highlighting the similarities in mindsets between US and India-based leaders and the universal recognition of IT's centrality in business.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Digital Summits
💡CEO
💡Rebranding
💡Pivot
💡Travel Tech
💡BPM
💡Hybrid Economy
💡Onshore and Offshore
💡ESG
💡Work from Anywhere
Highlights
Advantage of digital summits in managing time efficiently compared to physical events.
Introduction of Sudhir Singh, CEO and Executive Director at Co-forge, and his journey through the IT industry.
Sudhir's recollection of his career start at Unilever India and the impact of being part of a 'CEO factory'.
Importance of delivering impact at multiple points in one's career, not just at the executive level.
The role of luck in achieving a CEO position and the need for a 'lucky break'.
Sudhir's advice on the significance of understanding business deeply and the importance of execution over strategy.
Emphasis on walking the talk, prioritizing customer focus, and the long-term value of performance over personal branding.
Diversity in leadership styles and the importance of orienting towards delivering results.
Surprises in the CEO role, including the seriousness with which colleagues take the CEO's words and actions.
The critical role of people management, hiring, and culture creation in the effectiveness of a CEO.
Challenges of time management for a CEO and the importance of allocating time wisely.
Debate over the myth of absolute control as a CEO and the reality of accountability to various stakeholders.
Satisfaction derived from creative freedom, culture creation, talent onboarding, and impacting people's lives in the CEO role.
Co-forge's successful pivot during the pandemic, especially given their significant revenue from the travel industry.
Growth of Co-forge's non-travel businesses during the pandemic and the strategy behind their resilience.
Revival of the travel tech spend and Co-forge's growth in the travel vertical post-lockdown.
Co-forge's expansion into new verticals like manufacturing and healthcare during the pandemic.
Expectations for the current year with a predicted growth rate and the strategy behind it.
Co-forge's approach to localization with the establishment of on-site operating centers during the pandemic.
The dual track approach of Co-forge in balancing on-site and offshore operations amidst changing business dynamics.
Sudhir's perspective on the enduring impact of the pandemic on mindsets, emphasizing the centrality of technology in business.
Observations on the universality of tech expertise among leaders post-pandemic and the disappearance of discretionary vs. non-discretionary IT spend conversations.
Sudhir's views on the integration of diversity and ESG imperatives with work from anywhere models.
Final thoughts on the convergence of leadership approaches and learnings from the pandemic across geographies.
Transcripts
[Music]
[Applause]
[Music]
so
[Music]
wonderful well welcome back after lunch
or
late afternoon tea um thank you very
much and still that we had
an increase of attendees over the lunch
break so
physically all the little booths and
things so
these uh one advantage of these digital
summits is you can get everything done
on time
it's not like when everyone's together
physically and you have to round
everyone up from coffee and stuff
so joining me now is a gentleman i've
got to know quite well and uh
it feels like just yesterday i was
having lunch with him but it was
actually over a year ago now
is sudhir singh who's the ceo executive
director
at co-forge um so
sudhir let's hear a bit more about you
you've you've kind of come through the
ranks
into cersei and gent before getting the
chance to steer the ship within iot
and you've actually successfully
rebranded the firm as well
um so were you always looking for like a
ceo job is this what you've always
wanted to do and
maybe uh what advice would you take to
others who are looking to
take on a greater leadership role in
this world
thanks for the question phil and uh
congratulations and having organized a
fantastic event out here all right
it's been a great event so far so
congratulations on that to you and to
your team
and thanks for the question uh at the
outset uh so before i
was at uh gen packed hannah infosys i
started my career with the unilever in
india
it used to be called levers and it was
it wasn't part of the it services
spectrum
lee was interestingly in the 90s which
is when i
joined them was uh the equivalent of the
ge
in in the states it was regarded within
the indian corporate sector as the ceo
factory for corporate india
so i guess somewhere in the back of my
mind was the fact that one
did want to aspire to be a chief exec at
a given point in time
but having said that uh more importantly
i think the best training that
they gave me at levers was that
the impact that one delivers as an exec
and you're right i've come up through
the ranks
can be and it should be delivered at
multiple points
right through a carrier graph what they
also instilled
uh having seen a bunch of folks walk out
of that
academy of sorts was the fact that
capability
and commitment alone do not necessarily
get you to being a chief exec
luck as an outsized role to play in it
so
one needs to look for a lucky break but
more importantly one needs to always
look for roles
one can create an impact apply himself
or herself and as far as i was concerned
what i was really aspiring to do
for the for in the early part of my
career was really trying to
figure out a way of getting to a place
where i could own a piano
to my mind that was that was a place
where one would could drive very
tangible very perceptible very distinct
uh impact to a business
so that's that's uh that's how i would
uh that's how i would put it
uh uh phil in terms of uh
what i would uh i would suggest i'm not
uh
i'm not known for giving big speeches or
giving way too much advice but i would
just
read out a few things that i have picked
up over time i think
somebody who is aspiring to go up and
it's not the designation it's just the
roles
over time a he or she should
know the business or at least whichever
facet of the business that they are
involved with
intensely intimately one has to operate
in the trenches there is this
there is uh this whole quasi industry
around just providing
50 000 feet views but to my mind
execution
is always and has always been more
important than strategy so a
a person in any industry not just our
industry
whatever piece of work that they touch
they need to know how to
execute whatever strategy gets laid out
second thing that i could i could throw
out there is uh
one needs to walk the talk in terms of
making sure that you're always thinking
of the customer and you're selling
externally not necessarily
internally within the organization it's
not your personal brand that counts
just because of the selling you know
internally within the organization
in the long term in the long run it is
always
numbers and performance and the data
around performance that starts talking
you can go by for some amount of time
talking the talk but finally give it two
years three years four years the track
record around numbers is what speaks
the third thing uh which was something
very interesting that i picked up from a
gentleman called candy anand who went on
to be the coca-cola south america here
at one point in time was
he always used to say that please don't
and this was early in my career he
always used to say that there is no one
style that a successful
more than successful and effective
leader or an effective exec or an
effective team player has
there are multiple styles all that
counts is
how do you get it how do you orient it
towards delivering results delivering
impact so that's the third thing that i
would
that i would throughout that um
at uh at a very high level yeah so what
surprised you cydia about the demands of
the role both good and bad
what surprised me i suspect the thing
that surprised me right at the outset a
lot was
how seriously folks who you've actually
been working with for many years just
start taking you
just because a designation or a role
gets stacked to your name
and the intensity with which everything
that you say
or do is observed and hence the need to
be a little more
circumspect around avoiding off the cuff
records
remarks because they do tend to get
played out
the second thing that's uh that's that's
been very instructive over the last four
years that i've been around here
has been uh how the in some ways
almost the most important role of the
chief exec is
people management people hiring culture
creation
one can talk a lot about strategy i do
talk a lot about execution but at the
end of the day
it is the team that you managed to build
and the team that those leaders in terms
will
that makes a big impact the third
learning
struggle with this a little bit phil has
been the importance of time management
in this role
uh there is and there are a lot of folks
who very understandably would need time
and it becomes imperative over time to
start
bracketing rationing allocating spending
time correctly
and the final thing that i i think has
been a big revelation to me is how this
entire concept of
i'm going to become a chief exec and i'm
going to have absolute control is an
android myth
there is no absolute control i you still
work
you work at the pleasure of the board
you work for investors you are
accountable to your clients you continue
to be accountable to your team members
and your
and your employees so and i think that
was the fourth thing that i found very
very uh
interesting uh besides that things that
have been
good uh i think it's been the fact that
as a chief exec
and i'm not an artist you almost feel
like uh
you are an artist the ability to be
creative
to create cultures teams with more
latitude with more degrees of freedom
is is i find extremely satisfying about
the role
the culture that can be created the
talent that can be onboarded
and i think the final piece is the
ability to recognize
the ability to reward and hence the
ability to impact people's lives
obviously it's amplified in a role like
this
and that again is uh something that's
has been very satisfying
in the role so here thank you for
sharing that
i think when we when we spoke about last
may time june time uh i think you had a
little headache
uh how has how has co-forged
fed in the pandemic i know one of your
key verticals is travel for example
that must have hit you guys pretty hard
so how have you
written this out and how do you plan to
to exit this uh this world as
we go into a hybrid economy we were
surprisingly and thankfully extremely
well fell
and i know in may when we spoke last or
this was still the early days of the
pandemic it was quarter one for us
in many ways our performance has been a
classic case study in terms of how to
pivot fast
and pivot right and get things done so
last year
a pandemic infused here we walked into
with almost a third of our revenue
coming in from the travel industry
within that a significant chunk coming
in from airlines and airports and yet
at the end of the year other than travel
the other six businesses
grew through the pandemic at 18.4
percent
the whole firm including the business
which was about a third of
of of our aggregate revenues grew six
percent
through the year so it's been a very
satisfying year more than that
uh the second third and fourth quarter
the quarter after i spoke with you the
travel business actually has taken off
so if you look at
if you look at travel tech travel spend
on the technology side it took a hit in
quarter one
the industry obviously is possibly going
to take a few more quarters to revive
but the travel
tech spend has come back and has come
back very very fast if you look at
just the travel vertical of coforge i
believe in the last three quarters we've
had a
quarter in which we grew 10 sequentially
another one in which we grew seven and a
half percent sequentially so
where we are from the current vantage
for the current year i've already called
out that this year
f522 for us we expect travel to be the
fastest growing vertical
for the organization and to lead growth
so that's one facet of how we handle it
the second thing that the pandemic
almost forced us to do was to recognize
that we need to start
getting into other verticals with speed
we've always talked about it but it's
you really need that you need an
external push you need something that's
almost an existential crisis to push you
along that dimension so
we went into manufacturing and
healthcare now if you look at us today
can manufacturing now is 10 of our
global revenues
travel is 19 retail and health care is
seven percent so those businesses got
built up
and that's what resulted in a very
strong exit ram for us
last year into the current year this
year
uh i've called out uh to in in general
after the last call that we expect to
grow
at least 17 as an organization
and on a performa basis and you you know
us for a very long time phil
on a performance basis that landers at
least at an 820 million dollars
which i think is a pretty big number
compared to the 400 million i spoke to
you four years back so
that's uh that's how that's how that's
how we've been able to tackle the
travel issue getting out into other
verticals even within
travel we focused on logistics we
focused on
travel tech we focused on travel
platforms
and there's a boatload of very
interesting work that's being done there
travel in general if i look at the three
material engagements that have come our
way over the last two quarters
there is significant spend that's
getting directed to security
to contactless payments contactless just
the intelligent airport
contactless travel through an airport
and to cloud as well so
our interesting times started off being
a very challenging time
left us with a very very strong growth
ramp and very definite growth for last
year
uh and it also had us start thinking
about inorganic
aspects to our growth so last year last
quarter is your aware field we
closed uh a very large bpm
acquisition which was slk global we're
now into month three of that acquisition
and that was again a prod that we got
because of the
uh the pandemic coming in the big
exposure to travel the need to manage
that exposure
and yet to continue the growth that's
that's how i would characterize it
right that's very well very well
articulated and how you
actually ended up growing in industry in
distress because there's
reinvesting and technology is key
to a lot of these areas so you did a
rebrand
from a very traditional brand in niiit
technologies
and you chose our name co-forge and you
did this during a pandemic
not many firms of service providers in
particular have
braved or rebranded but how challenging
has this been
and um and what was the passion behind
the name and stuff
so so in retrospect we did some of the
most exciting things that we've done
over the last decade through the
pandemic
and rebranding you're absolutely right
was one of them uh we
chose coforge and i remember we talked
about it in may as well because
to us that name connotes working
together
to create lasting value forge tends to
have this
old world connotation so we were a
little wary around getting into it but
for us the core
and the force that that that getting
together represented creating lasting
value working with our employees
and we've always talked about having the
lowest employee attrition in the
industry
working with our clients working with
our partners
including partners like hfs who've been
part of the journey
and working with the entities that have
over time over the last five
ten years become part of co forged their
style and iit technologies
we spent quite some time phil you're
absolutely right and i remember speaking
with you in mumbai february last year
running through names
deliberating on whether a pandemic was
the right time
within which to rebrand ourselves as an
organization
we just thought it was we just thought
it was
instinctively a good time because
everyone was locked up
everyone was cooped up everyone was very
intensely gazing out to see what was
happening all around them
and it was a good time for us to come
out with something new because
it got noticed we decided that we do the
entire marketing rebranding exercise
uh internally so the entire digital
marketing piece
the brand creation the brand book the
logo creation
color palette everything got done
internally through the pandemic
we went to the market with a digital
only push
and that's that's resonated well for us
so
it was it was intense experience and i'm
sure you
you you can relate to that but i think
the timing worked for us in respect
yeah i think i was skeptical for a few
days but i i think it's a great brand
it's impactful it asks questions and
says a lot
so well done um so um
you were very uh articulate with
explaining how you'd
uh reject your vertical plays how you
continue growing
despite a third of your in your business
being impacted by a very disruptive
vertical
um so as we limp back to this hybrid
reality
uh how are you going to sort of uh
recalibrate your onshore on-site
offshore mix are you
are you looking at uh innovative ways of
of uh changing up changing up the
delivery mix
yeah so phil oh there's there's mean and
i suspect you hear this from everyone
there's a boatload of demand out there
for digital talent that's there and
seems to be playing out somewhat
differently along two different axis
some parts of the business particularly
our bpm business there's been an
accelerated demand to
move the smes or to create fail-safe
mechanisms and move work closer on site
there's a clear demand that's played out
the other piece has been the more
classical outsourcing if i can call it
that
where the ask is more centered around
consolidation
and moving more aggressively offshore so
we're seeing both of these dynamics play
out
in real time right now if i look at just
our operating metrics
our outs number of the headcount that we
have
outside uh europe and north america
that's actually gone up six percent over
the last five quarters so the
consolidation
moving things offshore is running
concurrently with
in certain aspects of the business
getting smes getting business critical
work back
on site right we have as a consequence
approached uh
this with under a dual track right what
we've done on site is
uh we are not just localizing we are
setting up
on-site operating centers and for a
firmer size
with with a lot of speed and with a lot
of skill so if i look at north america
we have four operating centers that are
now
in operation and half of them have come
up
through the pandemic we've got a center
in boise idaho we've got a center in
augusta georgia
we've got a nursing center in las vegas
nevada and we've got a center in toronto
canada
we've done the same thing in europe
we've we opened a center over the last
15
months in krakow we amped up our center
in madrid
uh spain we amped up our centers in
germany
and of course we run our insurance
product business from london
the operating team sits there so
localization
not just localization a localization
with a very strong bias to creating
shared services centers in the classical
term
on-site is something that we are doing
offshore
and again as i said that's the other
stream that's playing out
we have very significantly accelerated
the entire
training engine mirroring what some of
the larger firms have done for many
years so the number of folks who we are
picking up from college
training and deploying into the market
has gone up by a multiple of six over
the last two years
there's six times more freshers this
year
that we're going to get from college
compared to what we would have two years
back
wow it's very very impressive just
to really the the shift on the ground so
very quickly
as a final question um uh learnings from
a leader
on 80 from 18 months of pandemic do you
think mindsets will be markedly
different
as we emerge or do you see a snapback to
be
pre-2020 do you see a different mindset
emerging
across u.s and india leaders for example
based on the experiences we've
had so i under i had a tooth extracted
earlier this morning and i went to the
dentist phil and the first thing she
asked me was what do you do and i said
i'm part of the 18 industry and she said
hey listen you guys are the ones who
held the whole world together over the
last
five quarters the one learning and this
isn't just about leaders and what people
are talking about
is just about the centrality by about
the non-discretionary nature of it
spend if i can call it that right the
centrality of technology as
not just a revenue enhancer if i were to
transpose that
that that observation into the
enterprise id space
the centrality of the technology spin in
uh the non-discretionary nature of the
iit spencer the one thing that we've
noticed is uh this year
and i think it was true last year as
well coming into the year
that entire conversation around istic
discretionary versus non-discretionary
is all gone
what we encounter these days is across
organizations it's very difficult to
talk to differentiate
between the ceo the cmo the cio the cdo
the cro they're all tech experts
they are they understand the enterprise
i.t stack extremely well they have very
clear
very cogent point of view so coming out
of the pandemic the one thing that's
very very clear is that the centrality
of technology as a business driver as a
business differentiator as a business
risk mitigator is
just out there and i suspect that is not
going to go
the other thing that's interesting if i
look back at the last four of five
quarters is
it isn't just the fact that technology
and the role that tech played in
holding things together that came up the
other piece that we've all heard about
is the entire conversation around
diversity
around esg imperatives uh
in in where we've landed post pandemic
or should land post pandemic
with the whole work from anywhere
equivalent models that are being talked
about
i think that's a that's a fantastic way
of actually addressing some of the esg
and the diversity imperatives that's a
fantastic way of
going and approaching a broader talent
catch and the industry has in the past
and and i see at some point in time
that's going to get
intimated with each other uh
finally i i don't really see much of a
difference bill between the india and
the us-based uh
leaders in terms of how they how they
are approaching this uh
approaching the learnings it's very
difficult these days for me to actually
pick out leaders and say this is an
india based leader this is a us-based
leader or a europe-based leader
so i suspect almost everyone has taken
those uh
learnings out centrality of i.t i.t as a
risk mitigator
technology as a revenue enabler et
cetera that's that's how i would uh i
would
i would posit it to you phil awesome
it's just been a great story hearing
about a midsize company like yourselves
and how you've actually pivoted to
grow the company and innovate during a
very tough period
especially when a third of your industry
your business was tied to travel
so tesla here uh i would agree with you
i think technology has kept the wheels
on
and i think science saved our story
behind
so uh let's be thankful to our
scientists as well as our technologists
uh studio sing uh ceo ko for it's been
an absolute pleasure hearing from you
the last
25 minutes and um i'm sure everyone has
enjoyed it very much as well great to
hear from you again and
and hopefully see you in new york in a
few weeks time absolutely phil always
good to speak with you
thank you thank you
you
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