Divine Renovation: An Interview with Fr Mallon Part 4
Summary
TLDRIn this insightful session, Peter Herbeck and Father James Mallon delve into the significance of transforming church culture for effective mission. They emphasize that without a healthy, life-giving culture, even the best strategies and programs fail. The duo discusses the importance of values, such as prioritizing the weekend experience, quality music, impactful homilies, and genuine hospitality, as foundational to a church's health and growth. They also underscore the necessity of small communities, strength-based ministry, and the Holy Spirit's role in cultural transformation, aiming to cultivate missionary disciples.
Takeaways
- 🌟 Leadership is fundamentally about leading change, and this change is the transformation of culture within a parish.
- 🛠 The success of any program or initiative in a parish is heavily dependent on the underlying culture; without a healthy culture, even the best programs will fail.
- 📚 Culture is revealed by what is valued, celebrated, and rewarded, and it is essential to have a brutally honest assessment of the current culture in a parish.
- 🎼 The importance of music and hymns in the church service is emphasized, with a call for quality and relevance to connect with the congregation.
- 🤝 Hospitality is key to making parishioners and visitors feel welcome and included, which is a collective responsibility of the whole community.
- 📝 Homilies should aim for transformation rather than just imparting information, leading people to a place where they feel compelled to act on their faith.
- 👥 Building meaningful communities is essential for fostering a sense of belonging, which is a prerequisite for belief and changed behavior.
- 💼 Strength-based ministry involves starting with the individual's gifts and passions, rather than filling needs with whoever is available.
- 🔢 Small groups are vital for personal growth and a sense of community, and they should be a normal part of parish life, not just an activity for a few.
- 🌪 The experience of the Holy Spirit is crucial for a vibrant and dynamic church, and the Holy Spirit's role will be discussed in more depth in a future session.
- 🚪 Becoming an inviting church is not just about having open doors but also about creating an environment that is welcoming and life-giving to all who enter.
Q & A
What is the main focus of the conversation between Peter Herbeck and Father James Mallon?
-The main focus of the conversation is transforming the culture within a parish, emphasizing the importance of a healthy, life-giving culture for the success of any church initiative.
Why is culture considered more important than strategy or programs in church renewal according to the speakers?
-Culture is considered more important because it underpins all initiatives; without a healthy culture, even the best programs and strategies can fail, as culture can 'eat strategy for breakfast'.
What does Peter Drucker's quote about culture imply for church leadership?
-The quote implies that a church's culture can undermine or even negate the efforts of its leadership if it is not aligned with the church's mission and values.
How does Father James Mallon define culture in the context of a parish?
-Culture is defined as the values that are presumed, celebrated, and rewarded within the parish, reflecting the real values demonstrated through behavior rather than just aspirational values.
What is the significance of the 'three H's' mentioned in the script?
-The 'three H's' refers to hymns, homilies, and hospitality, which are considered key values that, when prioritized, can significantly improve the weekend experience in a parish.
Why is the quality of music during worship considered important in the script?
-The quality of music is important because it can enhance the worship experience, connect with the culture, and has the power to lift spirits and deepen the spiritual connection of the congregation.
What does Pope Francis say about the challenge of homilies in the church?
-Pope Francis acknowledges that priests often struggle with preparing homilies and that the congregation suffers from having to listen to them, indicating a need for improvement in the preaching quality.
What is the role of hospitality in creating a welcoming church environment according to the script?
-Hospitality plays a crucial role in making a church environment welcoming by ensuring that the entire community takes responsibility for making visitors and non-churchgoers feel included and valued.
How does Father James Mallon suggest using the 'belong, believe, behave' model in church communities?
-He suggests that the church should focus on building trust and relationships to create a sense of belonging, which will naturally lead to people believing and then changing their behaviors in line with the church's values.
What is the importance of small groups in the context of the script?
-Small groups are important for fostering a sense of belonging, providing opportunities for catechesis and learning, and are essential for cultural transformation within a parish.
Why is it essential for a church to become an inviting church according to the speakers?
-Becoming an inviting church is essential because it allows the congregation to share their excitement and love for their community with others, naturally leading to growth and the making of missionary disciples.
What is the final point made about the role of the Holy Spirit in the transformation of church culture?
-The final point emphasizes the importance of the Holy Spirit in guiding and empowering the transformation process, with the next session focusing on the role of the Holy Spirit in more depth.
Outlines
🌟 Transforming Church Culture for Mission
In this first paragraph, Peter Herbeck and Father James Mallon discuss the critical role of culture in church transformation. They emphasize that leadership is about leading change, which involves transforming the culture rather than just implementing the best practices or programs. Culture is defined by values, behaviors, and rewards, and it can either support or undermine initiatives. The conversation highlights the importance of a healthy, life-giving culture for a parish to thrive. They also touch on the idea that culture is revealed through everyday conversations and that the ultimate goal is to create a culture that supports the vision of making missionary disciples.
🎤 Prioritizing the Weekend Experience
The second paragraph focuses on the importance of prioritizing the weekend experience in church services. The speakers share their insights on how the weekend is the most crucial time for ministry, as it is when the majority of the congregation is present. They advocate for giving the best to the weekend, including the best music, homilies, and hospitality. The paragraph discusses the significance of hymns and contemporary music in engaging the congregation, the role of homilies in delivering transformative messages, and the necessity of a warm and welcoming environment. The emphasis is on creating an infrastructure that supports an exceptional weekend experience.
🤝 Building a Belonging and Belief Community
In the third paragraph, the conversation shifts to the importance of community and the 'belong, believe, behave' model. The speakers argue that people must feel a sense of belonging before they can believe and change their behavior. They discuss the need for meaningful communities where individuals are known, loved, and cared for. The paragraph also covers the significance of clear expectations for parishioners, strength-based ministry that leverages individuals' gifts and passions, and the formation of small groups to foster growth and a sense of belonging. The speakers highlight the importance of being intentional about creating an inviting church that is welcoming to strangers and non-believers.
🌱 Cultivating a Healthy and Growth-Oriented Church Culture
The final paragraph wraps up the discussion by emphasizing the importance of a healthy church culture that leads to growth. The speakers reflect on their experiences in transforming churches of different sizes and stress that the size of the church does not determine its health. They outline ten values that are essential for a vibrant and dynamic church that produces missionary disciples. These values include prioritizing the weekend, meaningful community, clear expectations, strength-based ministry, small group formation, and becoming an inviting church. The paragraph concludes with a preview of the next session, which will delve into the role of the Holy Spirit in church transformation.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Transformation
💡Culture
💡Leadership
💡Parish
💡Initiative
💡Values
💡Missionary Disciples
💡Hospitality
💡Homilies
💡Hymns
💡Small Groups
💡Invitational Church
Highlights
Leadership is about leading change and transforming culture is key for church renewal.
Having the best people, practices, and programs won't make a difference without a healthy, life-giving culture.
Culture is what we presume, celebrate, tolerate, and reward - it's revealed by our values and behaviors.
Values are the real, demonstrated priorities, not just the aspirational ones.
Culture is revealed by the conversations people have around the water cooler.
The goal is to make missionary disciples, which requires a healthy culture to bear fruit.
Healthy churches grow and bear fruit, while unhealthy ones struggle regardless of size.
The photocopier model of church emphasizes evangelizing and sending people on mission.
Churches that prioritize the weekend and focus on quality music, homilies, and hospitality can transform culture.
Preaching should aim for transformation, not just information transfer.
Hospitality is the responsibility of the whole community, not just a few welcoming individuals.
Meaningful communities that build trust and relationships are essential for belonging and growth.
Clear expectations for worship, growth, connection, service, and giving are important for a healthy church.
Strength-based ministry that starts with a person's gifts and passions leads to more effective service.
Small groups are key for catechesis, learning, and creating a sense of belonging.
The Holy Spirit plays an essential role in transformation and the life of the church.
Becoming an inviting church is crucial for growth and requires intentional effort.
Invitation is a calling from God, but the results are up to Him, not us.
Investing in relationships and inviting people from a place of confidence creates a life-giving experience.
Embracing these values leads to a healthy culture that grows and makes missionary disciples.
Transcripts
hi I'm Peter Herbeck I'm here again with father James Mallon the author of divine
renovation bringing your parish from maintenance to Mission this is session
four and we're talking about transforming culture we've talked a
little bit about it in previous sessions but we did dig deeper because it's key
well I said that leadership means leading change and the change is nothing
short than the transformation of culture we often in in church renewal circles
will talk about best practices best programs best tools you know I get this
program that's a better program than this program but point is that you can
have the best people the best practice the best program but if you don't
address the cultural issue if you don't have a healthy life giving culture and
your parish it will kill every single initiative every other effort as Peter
Drucker says a culture eats strategy for breakfast yeah it does yeah will undo
everything and and what is culture again a culture is are the things we presume
they're there they're the things we celebrate we tolerate the things that we
reward and culture is composed of values it's it's it's shown by by what we value
and again these are real values not aspirational values again examine your
behavior and have a brutally honest assessment of what your culture is I
recently heard something say that you know culture is revealed by the
conversations you have around the water cooler let me just tell me a quick story
in the past year I went I don't know I went to a talk to a group of chaplains
and at the at the social that evening the conversation was all on rank and
status and medals and promotions and uniforms and in blah blah blah during
the break I mean during the sessions they were all talking about the stuff we
were talking about I think of that experience then I think of being in in
London for the Leadership Conference of the Holy Trinity bubs only Leadership
Conference and back in the hotel that night we went to the to the pop and
there was a bunch of Catholics non Catholics but pastors sitting around and
we had the most incredibly exciting conversation on leadership how to win
people for Gigli this is the this is where the culture
was revealed around the the watercooler what what are the word of the true
passions yeah that's culture that's the colours
how do those values connect to the vision wells that relate the vision is
again making missionary disciples and missionary disciples are the is the
fruit that were called to bear Jesus said I call you to bear fruit fruit that
will last in fact look at how demanding the Lord is in John's Gospel you know
every branch that does not bear fruit will be removed and every branch that
does bear fruit will be pruned so that it may bring even more fruit you know
like the Lord expects fruit right and so what is the what it's the fruit of a
missionary disciples but fruit is is comes from healthy things healthy trees
bear fruit right healthy soil seeds as long as healthy children grow I mean
you're a father you did you ever sit your children down and solemnly lecture
them to to grow no you kept them healthy and you fed them and they grew all by
themselves and here's the key thing the right values that shape a culture well
will lead a church to health and if it's healthy it will bear the fruit of
missionary disciples the key of olive cultural transformation is health and
and here's the thing that you know people often will perhaps look at our
situation and at least where I come from my parish is a relatively large one
it may not be compared to some of your parishes you know some of your parish or
twice or three times the size of mine but people will say well I'm in a small
country parish I don't have any other thing of one staff we don't have the
number of people sometimes the mistake is that people see these models of a
healthy of a church that is becoming healthy and it's a suburban church and
they say well you're a big suburban Church we can't do those things but
small churches can be healthy large churches can be unhealthy in fact a
small Church the relative health can be obscured because it doesn't look big and
in a big church the relative lack of health can be obscured because even if 2
percent of people are involved and they show up in a Tuesday night
it looks amazing but guess what it's only 2% right Cooper
sad it's not Alfie and so the goal the goal is health and there I really
believe this when I used to give talks I took some time to look at churches
Catholic churches and non Catholic churches who were and a sense doing it
keeping the main thing the main thing I like to call it the the photocopier
model of Church because I said think that the church is like a photocopier is
called - a photocopier brings paper in it processes it and it spits it out to
make a difference in the world and bringing in as evangelizing processing
is the siping you know printing and stapling and sending the paper out is is
is sending the people out a mission when you see parishes that are actually doing
this you say okay what do they have in common
what's important to these parishes not just what do they say is important what
do their actions what they do and how they spend their money show that they
that communicates what they value so what are the values the bells this is a
list that you know looking that I kind of threw through together and and
towards the back of the book there's there's a list of ten and then first one
is is priority to the weekend and really you know a number don't number years
into parish ministry I realized that I was giving the weekend my leftovers the
real work of ministry was what I did for money to Friday it was the funerals it
was the the Bible studies I did and the the wonderful courses that I was
creating and putting on for 10 people it was the one-on-one counseling works
so important but you end up spending 30 percent of your time with 1 percent of
your people and weekends we get 80 percent of her people 80 percent of the
time it's the biggest bang for the buck and I was throwing leftovers at it so
this is a first key principle to say number one are we giving our best the
weekend and also are we even set up our infrastructure in terms of buildings and
mass times to give it the best weekend experience just to clarify something you
said 80 percent of our people we see mount weekend's now most people
listening to say 80 percent of parishioners actually kind of mass at
your church on weekends because the you know the national averages are 20
percent or 22 percent so that's what you mean when I say 80 percent I mean 80
percent of our regulars okay yeah there's people in the community who
belong perhaps but just they never come yeah in terms of the people who come 80%
of them are there and any good and you have them there and they're coming
because they have some hungers number 2 you put hot you said hospitality
internally I see number two three and four are our follow they're connected
intimately to the weekend experience and I call them the three H's hymns homilies
and hospitality and you know something if you even get these first through four
values if you actually put into action the fact that weekends are going to be a
priority that your weekend experience is going to be the absolute best it can be
it will begin to change things hymns music is so key st. Augusta said if you
sing you pray twice and I believe that we owe it to God to ourselves to give it
our best free music to about lifting music I believe that today and in the
church we've got to embrace contemporary music but some people call praise and
worship music there's some amazing stuff being written by matt maher and others
that is very fitting to the to the liturgy it's a part of connecting with
the culture I also believe it's my own conviction and we do this at Saint
Benedict parishes we also celebrate the great treasure trove of sacred music
down through the ages so we have a contemporary contemporary liturgy you
can actually watch on livestream we have our band and then hour later Mass we
have a we have choral music and incense and sometimes can green chants so we
have we have both the commonality is the quality with commitment to quality if I
had to go back and do it again in my first parish instead of having a part
time children's katak Attucks person and this might be controversial I would have
taken that I would have canceled that position and taken that money and
invested it in in in beefing up music yeah and having a really good worship
leader who gets it who understands that it was a gift from your heart it opens
them up and then so the second one is homilies preaching the Pope Francis said
it didn't II never and jelly Guardium that the priests suffer from preparing
homilies and the people suffer from having to listen to them I mean we're
not the one for our great preaching and how often do we hear homilies and it
just doesn't feel or even sound like good news
and it doesn't have to be that way I think even a challenging homily it can
be like good news but I think the key thing is that we as priests we were
changed trained to be theologians and we were
formed in hyper academic environments where we give these theological homilies
but the goal of preaching is not information its transformation yeah you
know and Pentecost said that when people here at Peter preached they were cut to
the heart and what did they say what must we do you know so preaching
must lead people to a place where the hearts are cut and they say what must me
what must we do that's really just intervene here the father console Lamesa
a couple years ago he and I were at a conference together and before the
conference was over he said we don't want to talk to you for a minute so we
came together and he said I just want to share something with you and he said I
always remember that preaching the power to change is in the anointing of the
Holy Spirit he said I tell every priest seek the
anointing of the Holy Spirit have expectation then that the word that the
Holy Spirit gives you for your people is gonna transform hearts is gonna move and
change people any look and he says don't forget that he said that's so important
tell them that so I'm I'm being faithful to father console of Mason I'm telling
him what what he said and I really believe that yeah and I think that the
charisma itself has a special anointing there was a Vatican document couple
years ago Anders Pope Benedict - it said that the charismatic preaching whether
to a funeral or whatever it is about the basic message of salvation through Jesus
Christ his death on the cross and being filled with the Holy Spirit has a
special power of its own so keep preaching preaching that is relevant and
transformative too often we have as we suffer from preaching that is irrelevant
doesn't connect with people's lives and it's merely informational then
Hospitality you know is like it's a key thing in Catholic churches were not
someone that can be pretty I see you know and that doesn't just mean a few
people with nametags that means the whole community taking responsibility
for that and also even from the way liturgy celebrated to presume that
you've got non churchgoers with you you know that's presume it how do people who
don't go to church feel in your church so that's the first for what's number
five I was meaningful we have just a for about four minutes of meaningful
communities number five this is key you know I really believe that today the
church needs to operate out of a belong believe behaved model people people are
not going to believe something unless you build up trust and relation
chip and once they believe it they'll change their behaviors but we need to
begin with belonging and our communities must become real communities where
people are known and loved and cared for not just a bunch of strangers under
under under the roof for one hour and we look at the body language of parishes
yeah for sure and then use them how to do that what that means concretely how
do we well some even sit through alpha because that's the core value of alpha
it's beautiful the more people go through alpha it changes everything
so after that it is clear expectations no matter if their expectations can be
scary for people but most organizations have expectations and I believe that
combining a high degree of welcoming and high expectation is key and that means
we're very clear at Saint Benedict we say that everyone is called to worship
to grow to connect to serve and to give financially we talk about that and you
know I think the Lord has expectations off us and and and I don't think I think
is very much in line with what he calls us to do to speak about expectations
there were seven strength-based ministry this is a boat starting with the person
too often in church should we say this is the need 'let's grab any warm body
and we we at Saint Benedict Parish we tribe strive always to begin with the
person what are your gifting what are your strengths what are your passions
let's find a ministry that will that will allow God to use you to the maximum
rather than the other way around formation of small groups number eight
small groups are key for for growth for experiences of belonging we at Saint
Benedict Parish use small groups four to ten people for adult catechesis this
past spring we had about 70 small groups running in pairs ee different groups yes
well and from four to ten people and then also we have mid-size groups which
are twenty to thirty people and we have eleven of those groups and they are
principally about belonging the small groups are about catechesis and learning
okay so but whatever shape you have they're essential if you want a parish
to move form a new submission you want to change that culture these are
essential because when your parish begins to consider this stuff to be
normal as opposed to be what a couple of weird people do you know that you've
made traction now this one we're gonna touch on more deeply in our final
session together of a number nineties experience of the Holy Spirit absolutely
essential as father can tell Amissah said yeah welcome back to that next
session okay number 10 become an inviting church it
is the key thing if you get numbers 1 to 9
you're not you try stopping people from inviting people to your church because
they're gonna fall in love they're gonna be so excited about what's going on your
church is going to be a place that's going to be welcoming to strangers and
non-believers and non churchgoers and your parish is gonna have multiple
events whether it's alpha or concerts or grief support ministry or parenting
course or or or even Sunday Mass you know because your Sunday Mass will be
maximized to be welcoming and what we're trying to do you know being Invitational
it doesn't happen by itself you have to be intentional one final point on this
though we've got to be clear that God and we're called to invite we're not
responsible for the results and I think that's a key thing because a lot of
people fear well what if the person says no as if that's up to me but no you were
called to invite and leave the rest to the Lord and often it takes for
invitations yeah I remember what you were saying at one point years ago he
talked about investing and inviting like invest in the people that are in your
life that are close to your neighbors your friends your invest in a
relationship love them get to know them and out of that relationship
invite them that's right to the place invite them to a place you're confident
when you take the risk of inviting somebody you know the environment you're
inviting them into is known since in some parishes you just invite the person
the man I say no don't you don't do that because it's not going to be necessarily
know granted God can intervene at any point but you know we want to be sure we
want to be have confidence that it's going to be life-giving it's gonna be a
life-giving experience and I think these 10 values are values that churches that
are alive and dynamic and are making missionary disciples this is the stuff
that isn't value to them not just they don't just say it they actually live it
that this is their value and I really believe that by embracing these values
the culture will change the culture will become healthy and it will lead to
growth because healthy things grow and it's a reality I've experienced
personally at your parish it's it's real and it's been handed in a small parish a
medium sized parish and a big parish all right now we saved the best for last
in the fifth sessions gonna be on the Holy Spirit the role of the Holy Spirit
I mean it's sort of obvious right but I don't think everybody understands what
that means and let's talk about it then Thanks
関連動画をさらに表示
Divine Renovation Interview with Fr James Mallon Part 5
Divine Renovation: An Interview with Fr Mallon Part 1
Divine Renovation: An Interview with Fr Mallon Part 2
Divine Renovation Part 3: Forming a Leadership Team
Disciple Making, Fruit Of Being A Christian by Francis Chan And David Platt
The Sacrament of Confirmation
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