89. Listen, Listen, Listen: How to Build Deep Connections

Summary

In this episode of 'Think Fast Talk Smart The Podcast,' Matt Abrahams interviews Rachel Greenwald, an executive fellow at Harvard Business School and a professional matchmaker. They discuss the art of small talk and relationship building, emphasizing the importance of avoiding mundane data collection and instead aiming to be intriguing. Greenwald shares tips for initiating and ending conversations gracefully, using the 'white flag' technique and genuine curiosity. She also highlights the significance of active listening and making others feel valued in both professional and personal interactions.

Takeaways

• 😀 Small talk is a crucial skill in both personal and professional relationships, and it should be engaging rather than a mere data exchange.
• 🧐 Avoid being a 'data collector' by asking mundane questions; instead, aim to be intriguing to spark interest and facilitate a deeper connection.
• 🎲 Turn common questions into intriguing guessing games to make small talk more enjoyable and memorable.
• 💡 Use observations about the shared environment to initiate small talk, creating a sense of familiarity and connection.
• 🏁 Employ the 'white flag' technique to gracefully end conversations on a positive note, leveraging the recency effect to leave a favorable impression.
• 💬 Effective communication in both romantic and professional contexts involves focusing on how you make others feel rather than just the words you say.
• 👂 Active listening is paramount; it involves not just hearing but also understanding, encouraging elaboration, and asking follow-up questions.
• 🤔 Seek genuine curiosity in conversations by asking open-ended questions like 'tell me more' to demonstrate interest and deepen the discussion.
• 😉 Light banter, rather than forced humor, can be used to lighten the mood and create a more relaxed atmosphere in conversations.
• 🚫 Be aware of 'bad conversation habits' such as being the 'mirror' or 'interrupter,' which can hinder connection and make others feel unheard.
• 🔍 Recognize that communication starts before the actual interaction; setting the right tone through pre-communication can prime people for a successful conversation.

Q & A

Who is Matt Abrahams and what does he teach?

Matt Abrahams is a professor who teaches Strategic Communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business.

Who is Rachel Greenwald and what is her role at Harvard Business School?

Rachel Greenwald is an executive fellow at Harvard Business School, a professional matchmaker, and a dating coach. She is also an expert on communication and relationship building.

What is the main challenge in relationship building according to Rachel Greenwald?

The main challenge in relationship building, as mentioned by Rachel Greenwald, is making small talk feel comfortable and engaging, rather than just being a data collector.

What does Rachel Greenwald suggest to avoid in small talk?

Rachel Greenwald suggests avoiding being a data collector by asking predictable questions like 'where are you from?' or 'what do you do?' as these can lead to boredom and are not engaging.

What is the key to making small talk more intriguing according to Rachel Greenwald?

The key to making small talk more intriguing is to ask better questions and give better answers that deviate from the expected, thus creating a space for intrigue.

How does Rachel Greenwald suggest turning a boring question into an intriguing one?

Rachel Greenwald suggests turning a boring question into an intriguing one by turning it into a guessing game, providing unexpected clues, and making the conversation more enjoyable and memorable.

What technique does Rachel Greenwald use to start and end small talk effectively?

Rachel Greenwald uses the technique of making an observation about something in the environment to start small talk and the 'white flag' technique to end small talk effectively.

What is the 'white flag' technique in ending small talk as mentioned by Rachel Greenwald?

The 'white flag' technique involves asking one last question and then giving a sincere compliment as you wrap up the conversation, making the other person feel genuinely listened to and appreciated.

What advice does Rachel Greenwald give for effective communication in both romantic and professional contexts?

Rachel Greenwald advises focusing on how you make someone feel rather than the words you're saying, emphasizing the importance of making the other person feel smart, funny, or accepted.

What is the significance of using light banter instead of humor in conversations according to Rachel Greenwald?

Using light banter instead of humor in conversations is less pressure-filled and helps to lighten the mood without the stress of trying to be funny, making the interaction more enjoyable.

What are some of the bad conversation habits that Rachel Greenwald warns against?

Some of the bad conversation habits Rachel Greenwald warns against include being the 'mirror' (reflecting back similar stories), the 'interrupter' (finishing someone's sentences), and the 'comedian' (using humor as a shield to avoid deeper connections).

What is the importance of setting the tone before a conversation or meeting according to Rachel Greenwald?

Setting the tone before a conversation or meeting is important as it primes people to be receptive to the intended mood or purpose of the interaction, increasing the chances of a successful communication.

What advice does Rachel Greenwald give for improving communication skills?

Rachel Greenwald advises seeking feedback on one's communication skills, as people often have blind spots and are not the best judges of their own communication.

Outlines

00:00

😀 Building Relationships and Small Talk

Matt Abrahams introduces the episode by highlighting the challenges of forming relationships in various aspects of life. He welcomes Rachel Greenwald, an executive fellow at Harvard Business School and a professional matchmaker, to discuss communication and relationship building. Rachel emphasizes the importance of avoiding dull data collection in small talk and suggests being intriguing to engage others. She provides examples of how to turn mundane questions into engaging conversations, such as turning 'what do you do?' into a guessing game. The goal is to make small talk more enjoyable and memorable for both parties.

05:02

🗣️ Starting and Ending Small Talk

Rachel Greenwald shares strategies for initiating and concluding small talk. She advises against the pressure of asking questions and suggests making observations about the environment as a way to connect. Rachel also introduces the 'white flag' technique for ending conversations, which involves asking a final question and giving a compliment before parting ways. This approach enhances the recency effect, making the last part of the interaction pleasant and memorable. Matt appreciates the advice and plans to apply it in his upcoming social events.

10:03

💭 Focusing on Feelings in Communication

Rachel emphasizes the importance of focusing on how one makes others feel rather than just the words being said. She references Maya Angelou's quote about the lasting impact of how people make others feel. Rachel advises leaning into others' stories and making them feel valued, rather than trying to impress them with one's own credentials. She also discusses the concept of flirtation and relationship initiation, suggesting that showing genuine interest in others is key to forming connections, whether in romantic or professional contexts.

15:03

😄 The Role of Humor in Conversations

Rachel discusses the use of humor in conversations, cautioning against the pressure of being funny. She suggests using light banter instead, which can lighten the mood without the stress of being humorous. Rachel also warns about the potential negative effects of humor, such as using it as a shield to keep others at a distance. She shares her findings from a ten-year dating research project, highlighting bad conversation habits like being the 'comedian', which can prevent deeper connections.

20:04

📚 Communication Advice and Ingredients for Success

In the final segment, Rachel shares her thoughts on effective communication. She advises seeking feedback to identify communication blind spots and mentions Priya Parker, author of 'The Arts of Gathering', as a communicator she admires. Rachel highlights the importance of setting the tone for a gathering before it begins, emphasizing the concept of pre-communication. She also outlines the three key ingredients for successful communication: active listening, asking follow-up questions, and encouraging elaboration. Matt thanks Rachel for her insights and wraps up the episode.

Keywords

💡Small Talk

Small talk refers to casual, often superficial conversation that serves as an icebreaker between strangers or acquaintances. In the context of the video, it is identified as a common challenge in both professional and personal settings. The script emphasizes the importance of making small talk intriguing and comfortable, rather than merely exchanging predictable information, to foster better connections.

💡Intriguing

To be intriguing means to evoke interest or curiosity. The video suggests that being intriguing in conversations can make small talk more engaging. For example, instead of giving straightforward answers, one could turn a simple question like 'What do you do?' into a guessing game, which adds an element of surprise and keeps the conversation lively and memorable.

💡Data Collector

A 'data collector' in the script refers to someone who asks basic, factual questions during conversations, such as 'Where are you from?' or 'What do you do?'. The video advises against this approach, as it can lead to dull and unmemorable exchanges. Instead, the focus should be on creating more dynamic and interesting dialogues.

💡Executive Fellow

An executive fellow is typically a senior professional who engages in academic and research activities at a university, often contributing to executive education programs. In the video, Rachel Greenwald is introduced as an executive fellow at Harvard Business School, indicating her role in teaching and mentoring within a prestigious academic environment.

💡Matchmaker

A matchmaker is a person who helps others find suitable partners, often for romantic relationships. In the script, Rachel Greenwald is described as a professional matchmaker and dating coach, highlighting her expertise in facilitating connections between individuals and teaching them the skills necessary for successful relationship building.

💡Communication Skills

Communication skills encompass a range of abilities that allow individuals to effectively express ideas, thoughts, and feelings to others. The video discusses various aspects of communication, such as avoiding common bad habits like being a 'mirror' or an 'interrupter', and emphasizes the importance of active listening and making others feel heard and valued.

💡Recency Effect

The recency effect is a psychological phenomenon where people tend to remember the most recent events or information more clearly. In the context of the video, it is used to explain the importance of ending conversations on a positive note, as this can leave a lasting, favorable impression on the other person.

💡White Flag

In the script, the 'white flag' is a metaphor for signaling the end of a conversation while maintaining a positive connection. It is likened to a race car flag that indicates one more lap before the finish. The technique involves asking one last question and giving a compliment before parting ways, which aligns with the recency effect and helps in ending conversations on a high note.

💡Active Listening

Active listening is a form of engagement where the listener fully concentrates, understands, responds, and remembers the speaker's message. The video underscores the importance of active listening in communication, advising against planning one's response while the other person is speaking and instead focusing on asking follow-up questions and encouraging elaboration.

💡Humor

Humor is a quality that makes people laugh or smile, often used to lighten the mood in conversations. The video discusses the use of humor, or 'light banter', as a tool to create a more enjoyable atmosphere. However, it also warns against overusing humor, as it can act as a barrier to deeper connection, and being perceived as a 'comedian' can prevent meaningful dialogue.

💡Feedback

Feedback is the process of providing comments or evaluations about someone's performance or actions. In the video, the importance of seeking feedback on one's communication skills is highlighted, as it helps individuals identify and address their blind spots, ultimately improving their interactions with others.

Highlights

Rachel Greenwald emphasizes the importance of not being a 'data collector' in conversations, suggesting that asking predictable questions can lead to boredom.

She advises to be intriguing by asking better questions and giving unexpected answers to common questions.

Rachel suggests turning common questions into intriguing guessing games to make conversations more enjoyable and memorable.

Matt Abrahams highlights the value of engaging and building intrigue in conversations, not just in dating but in all interactions.

Rachel discusses the challenges of initiating and ending small talk, suggesting using observations about the environment as a starting point.

She introduces the 'white flag' technique for ending conversations on a positive note, inspired by race car driving.

Rachel explains the 'recency effect' in social psychology, emphasizing the importance of ending conversations pleasantly.

Matt shares his experience with relationship initiation and the value of genuine curiosity in conversations.

Rachel advises focusing on how you make someone feel rather than just the words you say, echoing Maya Angelou's quote.

She stresses the importance of genuine interest and active listening in conversations, rather than trying to impress with one's own stories.

Rachel discusses the concept of 'light banter' as a way to use humor in conversations without the pressure of being funny.

She warns about the potential negative effects of humor if used incorrectly, such as using it as a shield to avoid deeper connections.

Rachel identifies 'the mirror' as a common bad conversation habit where people reflect others' stories instead of engaging deeply.

She also mentions 'the interrupter' as a bad habit that can make the other person feel unheard and annoyed.

Rachel emphasizes the importance of considering how your conversation partner feels, rather than focusing solely on your own goals.

Matt and Rachel discuss the value of seeking feedback on one's communication skills, acknowledging that self-assessment can be inaccurate.

Rachel admires Priya Parker for her work on setting the tone for gatherings and the importance of pre-communication.

She highlights the concept of 'pre-communication' as a critical aspect of setting the stage for successful interactions.

Rachel identifies 'listen, listen, listen' as the three key ingredients for successful communication, emphasizing active listening.

Transcripts

Forming relationships can be very

challenging at work,

in our personal lives,

in our romantic lives.

Today, let's learn some skills to

help us.

I'm Matt Abrahams and I teach

Strategic Communication at Stanford

Graduate School of Business.

Welcome to

Think Fast Talk Smart The Podcast

[MUSIC]

I am super excited today to speak

with Rachel Greenwald.

Rachel is an executive fellow at

Harvard Business School in

interestingly a professional

matchmaker and dating coach.

She's an expert on communication

and relationship building in work,

love, and life.

At Stanford University,

she's co-taught a seminar with past

guest, Tina Seelig at the D school

called Designing For Love.

She also guest lectures with two of

our other previous guests, Alison

Wood Brooks and Naomi Bagdonas.

Welcome Rachel, thanks for

being here.

>> Hi, Matt.

I am so excited for

our conversation today.

>> I am too.

Let's go ahead and jump right in.

You help people build relationships

in two very different arenas.

You coach executives in

the business world and you coach

singles in the dating world.

What have you learned about one of

the most challenging aspects

of relationship building small talk

that applies to both worlds.

And how do you make small talk feel

more comfortable when meeting

someone at work or on a date?

>> One big thing that I've learned

about creating successful small

talk both at work and

on dates is simply this,

don't be a data collector.

So what I mean by that is

like asking, where are you from?

What do you do?

How many siblings do you have?

That is all so boring to ask and

boring to answer.

Well, in all my research I just

really discovered again and

again that boredom

is the enemy of small talk.

So many people default to those

predictable data exchange topics.

So no wonder everybody hates small

talk or dreads it.

So your goal instead should just

try to be intriguing so

that someone wants to lean in and

get to know you.

I always say that in the space

between the expected and

the unexpected, lies intrigue.

If you want to be intriguing,

you have to ask better questions,

and you have to give better answers

when someone asks you a boring

question.

So I'll try to think of

an example here.

Like, if you're on a first date,

and someone asks you a boring data

collection question like,

what do you do?

Always what everybody asks

the first thing.

So instead of just stating

the facts, like I'm an engineer,

you could turn it into

an intriguing guessing game.

That could sound something like,

what do I do?

Well, let me give you two clues and

see if you can guess.

I had to get a master's degree for

it and

it usually involves avocados.

So that's a very unexpected answer,

right?

It's intriguing and

what I like best about it is that

it immediately

signals to the other person.

This is not going to

be your standard, boring,

small talk exchange.

It's going to be

much more enjoyable and memorable.

It's just a better conversation for

both people.

>> I want to know what

kind of engineer uses avocados.

You've definitely got me intrigued.

But this notion of engaging and

building intrigue applies not just

in the dating world, but

I think in all of our interactions.

When we talk, it work about

a project we're on rather than just

giving the facts as you suggest,

we could make it intriguing,

we could share

the potential value it brings.

I really, really like that idea.

And it helps us as communicators

reframe the whole

purpose because as you said so

many of us dread small talk.

And if it becomes an opportunity to

engage and intrigue someone

that all of a sudden makes it much

more interesting.

>> Yeah, absolutely, just don't

try to collect data about the other

person, Just try to think that how

would I like to spend these next

few minutes myself?

I'm sure the other person feels

the same way.

Let's try to make this fun and

intriguing.

>> Absolutely,

when it comes to small talk, Rachel

in particular I find it and I know

many people find the initiation of

the small talk and how you get out

of the small talk, how you end it

to be really challenging.

Can you share ways you coach people

to start and end small talk?

>> Sure, absolutely

the the start and

the ending are the toughest part.

So if you're someone that struggles

with initiating small talk,

it's probably because you're

worried about finding that

intriguing question like we were

just talking about.

So if that's your obstacle,

then I'd say just forget about

asking a question entirely take

that pressure away.

And instead, think about

simply making an observation about

something in your environment.

So, an observation is essentially

a bid for connection and

it can create a feeling of instant

familiarity like,

sort of a conspiratorial vibe just

between two people.

So, what's an example?

Like you could say to someone

standing next to the networking

event, hey, that brownie over there

on the buffet should have a big

sign that comes with it that says,

this requires 75 minutes

on the peloton.

Something, just any observation it

doesn't have to be funny but

just something about your

mutual environment.

Can create a space where the two of

you can smile about something right

in front of you before launching

into the business of getting to

know each other.

So that's the beginning

of the small talk exchange that I

would suggest to make it easier.

And that ending is super important

also.

I use actually in coaching both my

daters and my executives at work,

I use this technique that I call

the white flag.

And the white flag is something

that people who know racecar

driving will probably recognize,

the white flag in a race car

situation is where somebody stands

at the finish line as the cars

are going around and around.

And the person with a white flag

right before the last lap of the

race will throw down the white flag

and that says the race is almost

over but there's one more lap.

So, for example, if you're at

a function, a party, whatever,

you could say to somebody towards

the end as you're trying to wrap up

your conversation, you could say.

Before I go get a drink,

I have one last question because it

was so great

hearing about your trip to Alaska.

I wonder if you have a favorite

hike to recommend in anchorage,

just in case I get out there

one day.

So then you listen to what they

recommend, their favorite hike, and

then as you're walking away you say

something like,

I really enjoyed talking to you and

by the way, I love your shoes.

So this is something that's

important to remember that ending

small talk is something in social

psychology that is called

the recency effect.

Where people will rate

an experience more positively

if the last part of

the experience is pleasant.

So ending your conversation with

this tactic like,

I have one last question, and

then Giving a compliment,

a sincere compliment, of course.

As you're walking away,

just make someone feel like you

were genuinely listening to them,

and by the way,

you admired something about them.

>> When you first said white flag,

I thought you meant surrendering,

like I'm giving up.

But I do know auto racing and

I do know the white flag analogy.

I really like that idea.

I can totally see how I could use

that in conversation to say,

I need to go over there, I need to

go do this, but before I do,

I'd like to learn one more thing.

I think that's a wonderful

technique.

And really reminding everybody

of the recency effect,

that is how we feel at the end

of an interaction really matters.

So doing something at the end

that's positive, I think, is great

rather than that awkwardness that

many of us feel where we just say I

need something more to drink and

step away from the person.

I really appreciate that advice and

I have an upcoming social event for

work, and I'm going to use that

technique right away.

In terms of starting, I like that

idea of finding some kind of common

ground or common connection.

I can imagine in a work function

talking about a keynote speaker or

a certain goal that was just

discussed as a way of getting

people to initiate

that conversation and

together be working towards getting

the conversation moving.

So very, very helpful, I took

copious notes on what you just

said, and hope to put them into

practice in the very near future.

I know you and

I talked about this once when

we first met each other, Rachel.

But when I was in grad school,

I published research on flirtation

and relationship initiation.

This is a topic that really

fascinated me then and

still fascinates me now.

And it was also really helpful

because I met my wife while I was

studying flirtation in grad school.

Now, as a matchmaker,

you help many people initiate and

start relationships.

What advice do you give daters

about effective communication?

And is there different advice

you give people who are seeking

romantic partners versus those who

are looking for platonic and

professional relationships?

>> Matt, it is exactly the same

advice in romantic or

professional context.

It's not different at all.

And the advice is simply to focus

on how you make someone feel more

than you focus on the words that

you're saying.

So that's reminiscent of that

Maya Angelou quote where everyone

knows this quote, I'm sure, but

people will forget what you said,

forget what you did, but never

forget how you made them feel.

So instead of, for example,

trying to impress someone with your

own stories or your credentials,

you want to lean into their

stories, their credentials.

And make them feel smart or

feel funny, or even just feel

accepted instead of judged,

which is how most people walk

around feeling every day,

as if everyone's judging them.

So you could have comments like

somebody tells you something and

say something, I don't know, like,

wow, I never would have thought

of doing that.

How did you come up with that idea?

So comments have to be genuine

though, that's really important.

You can't fake interest in someone.

People can smell a fake

a mile away.

So try to have in your head this

mantra that in every gathering,

every person in this room has

something to teach me.

And then your interest and

leaning into their stories will

feel more genuine.

You mentioned the word flirtation

in your question and

whether you use the word flirtation

in a dating context,

or whether you label it something

different in a work context,

like relationship initiation.

It's basically the same thing,

you're demonstrating that you're

interested in someone and

that you like them.

And it's a universal truth that

most people will like you if you

like them first.

>> I really like that advice, and

as I was listening to you, I was

reminded of my late mother-in-law

was an expert at small talk and

getting to know people.

When she would come to visit,

she would have to fly.

And the first half hour of our

conversations when she would arrive

would be about all the new friends

she made on the flight over.

And she had used what I heard one

of the techniques you were talking

about was genuine curiosity.

She was very interested in people

and really liked getting to know

people, and you could feel that.

And her superpower was being able

to ask the question, tell me more.

I'd like to learn more.

What more can you

tell me about that?

And she would use that all the time

to really get conversations going

and to signal that she was

really interested.

So I really appreciate what you

said, and I wish we would have

known each other back when I was in

grad school studying this.

You would have helped me really

hone in on the things I was

interested in studying.

You work closely at times with some

of our most popular previous

guests, Alison Wood Brooks and

Naomi Bagdonas.

My interviews with them looked

into humor.

And I'm curious to get your take on

using humor in conversations in our

personal lives and

our professional lives.

>> To me, the word humor

is always stressful.

And I think it is to a lot of

people too,

because it feels daunting, like

there's this pressure to be funny.

And I don't think of myself as

a funny person.

So I try to

rephrase that word humor,

and I coach people on specifically

using light banter in conversation,

which to me just sounds much

easier, less pressure-filled, and

it really accomplishes the same

goal, which is to lighten the mood.

So for example, we talked earlier

about finding observations in your

environment that are unexpected or

playful, and I think that's a great

starting point for light banter.

Observations could be something

like standing in a crowded room and

you turn to the person next to you

and he says something like,

I'm loving that woman's sweater

over there, it's so Madonna Circa

1985 or just something.

It doesn't have to be funny,

it's just sort of a light comment.

But as you bring up humor,

I also want to caution people that

there's a dark side to using humor

in conversations.

Most people don't think about humor

in any negative way, but it really

can be if it's used incorrectly.

So I conducted a ten-year dating

research project where I compiled

a list of 13 bad conversation

habits, and one of the bad habits I

found I called the comedian.

And the comedian is someone in

conversation who gets a lot of

laughs because they have jokes or

they are self-deprecating.

And at first, that's fun, but soon

your conversation partner might

crave a deeper connection than just

all the laughs.

And someone who's the comedian

can use their humor like a shield.

And your conversation partner can't

penetrate that shield, which will

feel frustrating to them.

You sort of feel

like as the conversation partner,

you're an audience kept at

a distance from the performer.

And the comedian always reminds me

of crashing after a sugar high if

you eat too much chocolate.

You might just suddenly afterwards

feel tired or unsatisfied.

And so you have to remember that

the goal of communication is to

create connection and

make a favorable impression.

So obviously,

you don't want someone to feel like

talking to you is exhausting,

because you're using humor too much

in your communication style.

>> I find the first point you made

to be really true.

When we try to be funny,

it just invokes so much stress.

So I like your reframing of, hey,

this is just light banter and

that takes pressure off.

And by taking pressure off,

I think it frees us up to actually

be Funnier and more connecting.

I am really curious to know,

you said you

found 13 bad conversation habits.

Can you just share with us two or

three more beyond the comedian?

>> Yeah, absolutely.

One of the most common bad habits

people have was something I called

the mirror.

And the mirror is the dynamic where

whatever you say,

the other person has a similar

story to mirror back to you, like,

wow, same thing happened to me.

They're just waiting their turn

politely until you stop speaking so

they can reflect on their

own relatable experience.

And that's understandable because

I think we're taught when you're

younger or maybe even in some kind

of sales training programs.

They teach you that you're supposed

to find a point of connection

where you can relate to somebody.

But actually,

I find it to be the opposite.

I find that, the mirror habit can

deflate conversational energy or

make it feel choppy.

So, the exchange can feel

superficial and

you don't feel heard.

There's all sorts of other

ones like the interrupter,

somebody who's just interrupting

you before you can finish your

sentence, and they try to finish

your sentence for you.

They're sure they already know

what they're going to say.

So they have that dirty four letter

word dynamic going on, the K-N-O-W,

and the other person just feels

annoyed, they don't feel heard.

So all these conversation

bad habits are really

about the feeling you create in

your conversation partner.

So whether you're

trying to be the one upper,

or you're the humble bragger, or

any of these 13 types that I found.

You are doing yourself a disservice

because you're almost trying to

impress the other person.

Like I can understand why they're

behaving the way they are, but

the end result is that your

conversation partner doesn't feel

good talking to you.

>> Thank you for sharing those.

And as you were going through each

of those bad communication

behaviors, I saw in my mind's eye

people who do those skills and

how they make me feel.

And the meta-message of what

I heard you share, Rachel,

is that we constantly have to be

thinking about how we're making

our conversation partners,

our coworkers, the people we're

interested in dating feel.

And not so

much focus on our particular goal

in that moment which is to share my

story as soon as you share yours.

And that is a wonderful reminder of

what makes for

effective communication,

be focused on the needs of

the person you're talking to.

Before we end,

I'd like to ask you the same three

questions I ask everyone.

Are you up for that, Rachel?

>> Yeah, I'd love it.

>> Excellent, I'm excited to hear

your answers.

If you were to capture the best

communication advice you've ever

received as a 5 to

7 word presentation slide title,

what would it be?

>> I would call this slide title.

Everyone knows it, but you.

>> Mm-hm.

>> What I mean by that, is that you

have a communication blind spot,

but you don't know what it is.

Everyone else knows and you don't.

So, maybe you even have more than

one blind spot,

but people are terrible judges of

their own communication skills.

They either overestimate or

underestimate them.

They have no idea how someone feels

when talking to you, so you're

the last to know unless you ask for

feedback.

So, this advice is all about

trying to get feedback, and

it's true in dating, and

friendship, and business, anything.

>> I didn't know where you're

going to take to your slide title,

but I love the point that we have

to seek out feedback.

We are not the best observers of

our own communication, so for

question number 2, who is

a communicator that you admire?

And why?

>> For that question,

I am going to pick someone kind of

out of the standard communication

arena and point to someone named

Priya Parker, who some of you may

know, others may not.

She's the author of a book that

is one of my all times favorite,

it's called The Arts of Gathering.

And her work focuses on

re-imagining how we spend our time

together to create more meaning.

So she is not specifically in

the field of communication,

but she talks a lot about setting

the tone for

a gathering before it even begins.

And this is a point on the

continuum of communication that I

think doesn't get enough attention.

And then I call that

point the pre-communicating point.

Which is the idea that

communication actually begins in

several ways even before you're in

the same space with someone.

And space cold be in person or

like he mentioned earlier,

could be a digital space like Zoom.

And even email or text, so

space is broadly defined, but

Priya Parker advocates that it's

important to set the tone before

you interact with someone.

So, is your upcoming conversation

or your meeting going to be fun?

Or do you want it to be serious?

Or is the emphasis on being

productive, whatever it is?

So, if you think about all

the communication that happens

before a business meeting like

calendar invites, or

even the first few minutes in

a Zoom window as people are logging

on before the meeting begins.

What if you created a clever title

for the calendar invite?

Or what if you played a theme song

on Zoom for the first 60 seconds

that reflects whatever your

intended mood is for this meeting?

I really like her because I think

in the big picture you can have

the best communication skills on

the planet, but

if people aren't primed to come in

being receptive to you it's

just really a missed opportunity.

>> I really like Priya's work,

I've read the book, I've heard her

speak, and this notion of setting

the table if you will,

priming people is really important.

We had a wonderful discussion with

Robert Cialdini about what he

calls persuasion, how you actually

get people in the right space for

you then to make the influence

requests that you have.

We don't spend enough time thinking

about the context for

the communication that we're about

to have, in highlighting

Priya Parker's work reminds us that

we need to do that >> Well,

you're going back to this social

psychology again.

And if you think about the primacy

effect, so the primacy effect is

that people remember the first

piece of information they

encounter, and that is better than

information presented later on.

So, pre-communication is difficult

to master,

but Priya Parker knows how this set

up future conversations for

success by communicating in advance

what she hopes to accomplish.

>> Absolutely, question number 3,

what are the first three

ingredients that go into

a successful communication recipe?

>> Well, I love that question.

The first thing that comes to mind

is the expression I'm going to

steal from real estate.

So [LAUGH] in real estate,

you probably know the advice for

buying a valuable property is

location, location, location.

So, I am going to say the same as

it's similar in communication which

is listen, listen, listen.

That is so important that it bears

repeating three times, so people,

whether it's business or dating,

they put so much emphasis and

communication on what to say.

But really successful communication

is about active listening.

And I use the word active

intentionally because I don't mean

just listening like stop talking or

be quiet or

let the other person speak,

but actively listening means things

like don't plan your next response.

Don't be listening to what somebody

is saying and secretly thinking

about how you're going to respond.

And active listening means,

ask follow up questions instead of

shifting the topic back to

yourself.

And probably most of all,

active listening is about

encouraging someone to elaborate.

>> I love those ingredients.

You know, Rachel,

I really thank you for

taking time to be with us and give

us very specific advice on how we

can connect better With coworkers,

potential romantic partners,

and platonic friends.

I appreciate your time,

I appreciate your input, thank you.

>> You're so welcome.

>> Thanks for joining us for

another episode of Think Fast Talk

Smart, The Podcast from Stanford

Graduate School of Business.

This episode was produced by

Jenny Lunar, Ryan Campos, and me,

Matt Abrahams.

Our music was provided by

Floyd Wonder, for more information

and episodes find us on YouTube or

wherever you get your podcasts.

Thank you, and

please make sure to subscribe and

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