The Greatest Mystery of All Time - Where Do Valve Stem Nuts Go?
Summary
TLDRIn this video, the presenter grapples with conflicting advice on tube tire valve stem nut placement, comparing Honda's factory setup with Michelin's instructions. After a humorous detour involving unhelpful AI and customer service responses, the video explores various forum opinions and concludes with practical advice. For street use, two nuts outside the wheel are recommended for valve stem security. Off-road, no outer nut is advised to prevent damage when deflating tires, with the inner nut ensuring a tight seal. The video also critiques some manufacturer practices and emphasizes the importance of nut positioning for tire longevity.
Takeaways
- 🔧 The factory setup from Honda places one nut fully tightened at the base of the valve stem and another tightened reasonably to the wheel.
- 🛠️ Michelin's instructions contradict Honda's setup, suggesting both nuts should be above the wheel, not under it.
- 🤔 The script writer faced confusion due to conflicting information from different sources, including Michelin's own packaging which showed different methods.
- 🏍️ For street riding with proper tire inflation, it's recommended to have two nuts on the outside of the wheel, with the first nut finger-tight against the wheel and the second nut locking it in place.
- 🏎️ Offroad riding may require no nuts on the outside of the valve stem to allow for tire rotation without damaging the valve stem when the tire deflates.
- 🔩 The top nut serves as a tool for installing and resetting the valve stem, especially useful in off-road scenarios where tire slippage can occur.
- ⚙️ The bottom nut under the wheel on off-road applications strengthens the connection between the valve stem and the tube, preventing damage from the washer bouncing.
- 🚫 Over-tightening the top nut can rip the valve stem out due to the rubber connection, which is why a bottom nut is important to prevent such damage.
- 💧 A nut under the wheel can prevent moisture and debris from entering the space between the tube, tire, and wheel, which is crucial for street applications where tires last longer.
- 🛠️ The script concludes that the best compromise for off-road use is to have a nut tightened to the valve cap, providing flexibility while preventing complete valve stem retraction.
Q & A
What is the issue with the tube type tire and valve stem nuts as described in the script?
-The issue is the conflicting instructions on how to position the nuts on the valve stem of a tube type tire. The factory setup from Honda and the instructions from Michelin differ, causing confusion on the correct method.
How does the factory setup from Honda CRF300l position the nuts on the valve stem?
-According to the script, the factory setup from Honda CRF300l has one nut bolted all the way down and tightened to the bottom of the valve stem, and the other nut is tightened down to the wheel reasonably tight.
What does the Michelin inner tube box suggest regarding the positioning of the nuts on the valve stem?
-The Michelin inner tube box suggests that both nuts should go above the wheel, with no nuts under the wheel, contradicting the factory setup from Honda.
Why did the speaker have difficulty installing the tire with the new Michelin inner tubes?
-The speaker could not get the bead to seat properly, and the tire could not be installed onto the wheel no matter how much the tube was inflated, which led to the discovery of conflicting instructions.
What was the advice from Chat GPT when the speaker asked for help?
-The advice from Chat GPT was unusable and vague, essentially telling the speaker to 'go f... yourself,' which did not provide any solution to the problem.
What conclusion did the speaker reach after browsing forums and comparing information?
-The speaker found no consensus on the matter of nut positioning in relation to the valve stem and the wheel, with forum members having zealous support for every possible approach.
What is the recommended setup for street riding according to Michelin?
-For street riding, Michelin suggests having two nuts on the outside of the wheel. The first nut is tightened down to the wheel finger tight only, and the second nut is tightened to the first nut to lock them against each other.
Why should there be no nut on the outside of the valve stem when riding offroad?
-When riding offroad and deflating tubes, having no nut on the outside of the valve stem allows the valve stem to be pulled in a bit into the wheel without getting ripped off, preventing damage to the tube.
What is the purpose of talcum powder or corn starch when installing tires and tubes?
-Talcum powder or corn starch is used to reduce friction between the tire and the tube, making it less likely for the tire to pull the tube with it if it rotates independently of the wheel.
What is the speaker's opinion on the approach of having no nut at all on the outside of the valve stem?
-The speaker believes that having no nut at all on the outside of the valve stem is not the best approach because it allows the valve stem to be completely pulled inside the wheel, making it difficult to reset without removing the wheel and tire.
Why should there be a nut on the valve stem base under the wheel for off-road applications?
-For off-road applications, a nut on the valve stem base under the wheel strengthens the connection between the valve stem and the tube, preventing the washer from chewing on the tube when the tube is deflated.
Outlines
🔧 Tire Tube Installation Dilemma
The speaker begins by discussing a discrepancy in tire tube installation methods between Honda's factory setup and Michelin's instructions. They describe how the factory-installed tube on a Honda CRF300l had one nut tightened to the valve stem base and another tightened to the wheel. However, when attempting to follow the same procedure with new Michelin tubes, the speaker encountered issues with seating the bead and securing the tire. This led to a search for the correct method, which revealed conflicting information from different sources, including Michelin's own packaging and online forums. The speaker humorously recounts an unhelpful response from an AI, prompting them to conduct further research.
🏍️ Nut Positioning for Street and Off-Road Riding
The speaker elaborates on the correct positioning of nuts on the valve stem for both street and off-road motorcycle riding. For street use, they recommend following Michelin's advice of having two nuts on the outside of the wheel, with the first nut finger-tight against the wheel and the second nut securing the first. This setup prevents the first nut from loosening. For off-road use, the speaker advises against having a nut on the outside of the valve stem to allow for tire rotation without damaging the valve stem. They also discuss the purpose of the top nut as a tool for installing and resetting the valve stem and express skepticism about manufacturers' recommendations, suggesting a compromise of having a nut tightened to the valve cap.
🛠️ The Role of Valve Stem Nuts in Off-Road Applications
In this section, the speaker explains the function of the top nut in off-road applications, emphasizing its role as a tool for tube installation and valve stem resetting. They also discuss the importance of the bottom nut under the wheel for off-road use, which strengthens the connection between the valve stem and the tube. The speaker addresses the potential issue of moisture and debris entering the space between the tube, tire, and wheel due to the absence of a sealing washer when a nut is present. They also touch upon the manufacturer's distrust in consumers maintaining correct tire pressure and the role of the nut in preventing damage from under-inflated tubes.
🛣️ Street vs. Off-Road: Nut Positioning and Longevity
The final paragraph contrasts nut positioning for street and off-road applications, focusing on the longevity of rubber products. The speaker advises against having a nut under the wheel for street use to prevent moisture and abrasion damage, which can compromise the tube and tire over time. They emphasize the importance of maintaining correct tire pressure and the longer lifespan of tires and tubes on street bikes. The speaker concludes by summarizing the impact of nut positioning on the longevity of motorcycle tires and tubes and thanks the viewers for watching, promising more informative content in future videos.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Tube Type Tire
💡Valve Stem
💡Nut
💡Bead
💡Michelin
💡Off-Road Applications
💡Street Driving/Riding
💡Tire Slip
💡Valve Cap
💡Talcum Powder
Highlights
The factory-installed inner tube on a Honda CRF300l has one nut fully tightened at the valve stem base, suggesting a specific installation method.
When replacing inner tubes with Michelin, the procedure did not work as expected, leading to a reevaluation of the installation process.
Michelin's instructions, found in the box, contradict the factory method by suggesting both nuts should be above the wheel.
Further confusion arises as different Michelin boxes provide conflicting images regarding the positioning of the nuts.
Online forums like Adventure Rider and Thumpertalk show a lack of consensus on the correct nut positioning.
Some forum members advocate for no nuts at all, allowing the valve stem freedom of movement.
Others recommend a single nut outside the wheel, tightened only to the valve cap, not the wheel itself.
Contacting Michelin directly resulted in an unhelpful response, suggesting a need for further research.
Watching YouTube videos and visiting dealerships provided a more comprehensive understanding of nut positioning.
For street riding, Michelin suggests two nuts outside the wheel, with the first nut finger-tight against the wheel and the second locking it in place.
Off-road riding may require no nuts outside the valve stem to allow for tire rotation without damaging the valve stem.
Using talcum powder during installation reduces friction between the tire and tube, preventing the tube from being pulled with the tire.
The top nut on off-road applications serves as a tool for installing and resetting the valve stem.
The bottom nut under the wheel on off-road applications strengthens the connection between the valve stem and the tube.
Manufacturers sometimes install a nut at the valve stem base to prevent over-tightening by consumers.
A nut under the wheel can prevent moisture and debris entry but may also compromise the seal, leading to rust and abrasion.
For street-driven applications, it's best to avoid a nut under the wheel to prevent long-term damage from moisture and debris.
Transcripts
Here we have a tube type tire, okay, and here we have a tube for said tire that goes into the tire
And here we have a problem. As you can see on the valve stem, we have these nuts
Now here's a used motorcycle inner tube that I removed from a brand new Honda CRF300l
so this is what came from the factory
and as we know the factory is the indisputable temple of mechanical correctness
and knowledge. And from the factory it came like this, let me get a wheel to demonstrate. So let me
find the hole. It came like this. One nut was bolted all the way down and tightened to the bottom
of the valve stem, to the base of the valve stem. It was then inserted into the wheel
and then the other nut was tightened down to the wheel reasonably tight. This is what came
from Honda, from the factory. And so I assumed that's the correct way to do it. But recently
it was also time to replace the inner tubes on my motorcycle so I bought new
inner tubes from Michelin and I tried to do the same thing, to repeat the same procedure
but it did not work, I could not get the bead to seat I could not install the tire properly onto
the wheel no matter how much I inflated the tube. I was lost and I came back to the box
and I found the reason behind my lostness. Displayed proudly in beautiful monochrome was this image
And as you can see, Michelin here is clearly saying that we are not putting any nuts under the
wheel. Both nuts go above the wheel. So, Honda and Michelin disagree with each other
Two temples of mechanical correctness are saying two different things
But then it got even worse
Because on my other box of my other Michelin inner tube I found another proudly displayed image of this
one, and here the wheel contours are not displayed, we cannot see them as in this image, but it is very
clear that there is no space for the wheel to go between the valve stem base and this nut
Now the nut is all the way to the bottom of the valve stem base, which suggests that the wheel should go
between the two nuts and not below both of the nuts. So Michelin disagrees with Michelin
Faced with such conflicting information, I was paralyzed. I didn't know what to do, so I did what I always
do when I don't know what's the right thing to do. I asked chat GPT, and here I have the answer
from chat GPT printed out and it says: "As an AI-based language model, go f... yourself"
Faced with this unusually vague answer, I had to do the only other thing possible, and that is to manually
browse the internet to find the facts, by comparing information from multiple different sources
I know, eww. Of course, within milliseconds I ended up on the forums. The treasure trove of online credibility
And after spending some time on forums such as Adventure Rider or Thumpertalk, I came to the
following conclusion. The higher the number of posts of a forum member, the higher the
chances that member has mental and/or social issues. Additionally, I realized that consensus
on the matter of nut positioning in relationship to the valve stem and
the wheel does not exist. There are zealous proponents of every possible approach
Even stuff like no nuts at all. Giving the valve stem complete freedom to go all the way in and out
Others suggested just one knot on the outside of the wheel but not tightened down to the wheel
Instead, it's tightened up to the valve cap. Finally, I decided to contact Michelin directly
And here I have the answer from Michelin printed out and it says: "As a global manufacturer and
supplier of tires and associated natural and synthetic rubber products, go f... yourself".
Of course, as any person with an IQ as high as mine, I immediately made the connection
Chat GPT was trained on Michelin customer support employees. It all finally made sense
So I decided that I must keep digging to find the facts
So I watched YouTube videos
I visited KTM and Husqvarna dealerships
I even filmed actual motocross racers
I spent an entire lunch break on this and I finally
found the ultimate, most comprehensive answer
If you are riding on the street and you keep your tires inflated to the correct pressure
then what Michelin suggests here, which is two nuts on the outside, is the correct thing to do
You will take your first nut, tighten it down to the wheel, finger tight only, and then you
will take the second nut, and tighten it to the first nut, and lock them against each other using
two wrenches. The only purpose of the second nut is to keep the first nut in place. Without the second
nut, the first nut would come loose because it's finger-tight only. That's street driving/riding
If you are riding offroad and you occasionally deflate your tubes to an air pressure
below specified, in order to overcome challenging terrain, then there should be no nut on the outside
of the valve stem, of the wheel tightened down to the wheel. Why? Because the wheel, the tube and
the tire, are not glued together. The only thing keeping these three together, is the pressure of
the tube acting against the tire and the wheel. If you deflate your tube, you are removing the
force keeping them together, which means that your tire can slip. It can rotate independently of the
wheel for a little bit. This is especially true on motorcycles capable of outputting large amounts
of torque quickly and aggressively. When the tire rotates and slips on the wheel, it is going to take
the tube with it. If the valve stem is tightened, secured to the wheel via a nut, it is going to
be ripped off. If we remove this outer nut, we are going to give the valve stem some breathing room
We are going to allow for the valve stem to be pulled in a bit into the wheel, without it getting ripped off
This will not only save your tube, but it will allow you to have a quick visual cue that tells
you that your tire has rotated. It has slipped. It will also allow you to reset the valve stem
by deflating the tube, pulling the valve stem back out, and re-inflating the tube
This is also why we take talcum powder or corn starch or whatever and
put it between the tire and the tube during the
installation of tires and tubes. This reduces the friction between the tire and the tube, and makes
it less likely for the tire to pull the tube with it, if it rotates independently of the wheel for a bit
However, I'd like to add that I think that KTM, Husqvarna, GasGas, all of them together
Pierer mobility group, I believe. The approach they have now which is no nut at all on the outside, I
don't think it's the best approach, because it allows the valve stem to be completely pulled
inside the wheel. The plastic valve cap will not prevent this from happening. If the valve stem is
completely pulled into the wheel then you have no way of pulling it back out and resetting it
without completely removing the wheel from the motorcycle and removing the tire as well. I think
the best compromise is to have a nut tightened up there, to the valve cap. This will prevent the
valve stem from being pulled completely in. It will give the valve stem some breathing room
and it will allow us to reset the valve stem by tightening down the nut and then loosening it
back up. And that's precisely what the upper, the top nut is on off-road applications. It's a tool
We use it during the installation of the tube into the wheel to locate the tube into the wheel
and keep it from coming back into the wheel when we are installing everything and when we inflate
the tube. And it's also a tool to reset the valve nut if the tire slips independently of the wheel
That's it. It is not used to tighten down the valve stem to the wheel. Okay, that's a top nut
What about the bottom nut, the one under the wheel on off-road applications. Should we put a nut on
the valve base under the wheel with offroad stuff? Yes, we should. And the reason is that it makes the
connection between the valve stem and the rubber of the tube a little
bit stronger. If we remove the top, this nut, we are going to see that we have a little washer
Now if we deflate the tube and we ride with a deflated tube, the absence of this nut is going
to allow this washer to bounce and chew on the tube, which will over time compromise this area
around the valve base and cause it to eventually fail. Some manufacturers also choose to install a
nut to the valve stem base from the factory and tighten it. If you buy a tube and you try
to remove this nut and it doesn't come off with very little finger force or minimal effort
with a wrench, then do not try to remove it, leave it alone, because trying to force this nut away
to loosen it by force, will likely compromise or even destroy that tube. Some manufacturers choose
to do this because it fits their manufacturing process but also perhaps more importantly because
they don't trust consumers and I understand that, people hate to think. It's true. A nut tightened
down to the base of the valve stem under the wheel prevents two things
Number one, it prevents the valve stem from being ripped off from the tube by over-tightening
Some people tend to forget that the tube is nothing but rubber
and the connection between the valve stem and the tube
is again nothing but rubber. But some people like things to be super tight and super secure, they
believe that makes it better, so when they install the tube, they keep tightening the outer, the upper
nut on the outside of the wheel with a wrench until it super, super secure, super tight
Doing this is going to pull out the valve stem and rip off the valve stem because it's nothing but rubber
If we put a nut on the valve stem base under the wheel then it's going to prevent the scenario,
the ripping off the valve stem by overtightening the top nut from happening. So that's number one
Number two: Manufacturers don't really trust consumers to keep their tires at the correct
pressure and if the pressure is below specified, then this washer is going to chew down on the
tube, as we said, it's going to compromise it and so a nut tightened down onto the washer,
onto the valve stem base, is going to prevent that from happening as well. However, a nut under
the wheel between the tube and the wheel does have a drawback. As you can see, on the valve stem
base, we have this washer and this washer has this little nice conical shape, which means that it's
designed to seal against the rubber tape and the hole of the wheel. If we put a nut on top
of the washer, then the washer will not be able to do this sealing job, which means that we are
going to allow moisture and debris into the space between the tube, the tire and the wheel
Over time this moisture and debris is going to cause number one: your valve stem base to rust out
a bit like this, and is going to cause a bit of abrasion damage all over the tube as you can see
on my old tubes. However, on off-road applications, the tires and tubes simply don't last long enough
for this long-term damage to become an issue. Plus, when you deflate your tubes, moisture and abrasion
is going to get in there, whether you have a nut, washer, or whatever, because you deflate
your tube, the seal will be compromised. But, this is also why we don't want a nut under the wheel
on street-driven applications, because on the street, we ride much greater distances, at
much greater speeds. We keep our air pressure at the correct air pressure hopefully, and we keep
our tires and tubes for a longer period of time. So we don't want moisture and abrasion in
there, we want to give the tubes and tires the best chance of lasting for as long as possible
So there you have it
Nut positioning, and how it impacts the longevity of your rubber products
As always, thanks a lot for watching. I'll be seeing you soon with more fun and useful stuff on the D4A channel
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