The Reliability of New Testament Manuscripts with Dr. Craig Evans: Digging for Truth Episode 29

Summary

In this episode of 'Digging for Truth,' Dr. Craig Evans from Houston Baptist University discusses the reliability of the New Testament text. He addresses common misconceptions about the longevity of original manuscripts and the accuracy of copied texts. With over 5,000 Greek New Testament manuscripts, textual critics can confidently reconstruct the original text. Dr. Evans also touches on the historical evidence for the preservation of autographs and the impact of skepticism on biblical studies.

Takeaways

• 😀 Dr. Craig Evans, a professor of Christian origins at Houston Baptist University, discusses the reliability of New Testament texts.
• 🔍 The conversation covers the transition from Jesus' teachings to their written records, emphasizing the pedagogical and historiographical aspects.
• 📜 Dr. Evans explains the significance of papyri, an ancient form of paper made from reeds, which was used for early manuscripts.
• 📚 The original manuscripts, or autographs, of the New Testament are no longer available, but thousands of copies provide a rich textual tradition.
• 🔎 The possibility of scribal errors in copying manuscripts is acknowledged, but the vast number of manuscripts allows scholars to identify and correct these errors.
• 👨‍🏫 Jesus did not expect his disciples to memorize his words verbatim but to understand and adapt his teachings, which accounts for variations in the Gospels.
• 📈 The longevity of manuscripts is highlighted, with some remaining in circulation for hundreds of years, suggesting careful preservation by early Christians.
• 🎥 Dr. Evans was involved in the making of 'Fragments of Truth,' a movie that visually presents ancient manuscripts and expert opinions on their authenticity.
• 🙏 The discussion counters skepticism about the Bible's reliability, arguing that the text has been well-preserved and can be trusted.
• ✍️ The script emphasizes the importance of understanding the nature of ancient texts and the methods used in their transmission to appreciate the New Testament's reliability.

Q & A

What is the main focus of the discussion in the 'Digging for Truth' episode featuring Dr. Craig Evans?

The main focus of the discussion is the reliability of the New Testament text, specifically addressing the claim that the events surrounding the life of Jesus Christ as recorded in the New Testament have been radically changed over time.

What is Dr. Craig Evans' area of expertise?

Dr. Craig Evans specializes in Jesus and the Gospels, as well as closely related areas such as the Dead Sea Scrolls. He has had the opportunity to study original manuscripts, including the Dead Sea Scrolls, and has emphasized the study of original texts in his career.

What does the term 'papyri' refer to in the context of the discussion?

In the discussion, 'papyri' refers to sheets made from the papyrus plant, which was used as a writing material in ancient Egypt. It's the origin of the word 'paper' and was a valuable commodity during the time of Jesus and the Roman Empire.

How does Dr. Evans address the concern about Jesus being misquoted in the New Testament?

Dr. Evans explains that there are two phases to consider: the initial teaching and writing phase, and the later copying phase. He suggests that Jesus did not require his disciples to memorize his words word-for-word and that some variation in wording is expected and not indicative of misquoting.

What role do textual critics play in understanding the New Testament text?

Textual critics play a crucial role by comparing the vast number of manuscripts to identify and correct scribal errors, ensuring that we have a reliable text that closely matches the original writings.

Why does Dr. Evans believe that the differences in wording between the Gospels are not a cause for concern?

Dr. Evans believes that the differences in wording between the Gospels are not a cause for concern because Jesus taught his disciples to understand and apply his teachings, which could involve paraphrasing. The variations do not indicate inaccuracies in the transmission of Jesus' teachings.

What is the significance of the number of Greek New Testament manuscripts we have?

The large number of Greek New Testament manuscripts, over 5,000, is significant because it provides textual critics with an unparalleled resource for comparing texts and confirming the original readings, thus ensuring the reliability of the New Testament text.

How does Dr. Evans respond to the argument that the New Testament has been corrupted over time?

Dr. Evans counters the argument by stating that while scribes did make mistakes, these errors are identifiable when comparing the many manuscripts available. The consensus among scholars is that we can be confident in the accuracy of the New Testament text as it is today.

What is the importance of the movie 'Fragments of Truth' mentioned in the discussion?

The movie 'Fragments of Truth' is important as it visually presents the ancient manuscripts and includes interviews with experts, providing evidence for the preservation and reliability of the New Testament text.

What historical evidence does Dr. Evans provide regarding the longevity of manuscripts?

Dr. Evans cites historical evidence such as the discovery of papyri in libraries that were in circulation for 200-300 years, and references from church fathers like Tertullian, suggesting that original manuscripts were treasured and preserved for a long time.

Why does Dr. Evans believe that the original autographs of the New Testament no longer exist?

Dr. Evans suggests that the original autographs were likely destroyed during periods of persecution, such as under Emperor Diocletian, rather than being discarded by the early church, which would have treasured them.

Outlines

00:00

📜 Introduction to the Episode

The episode begins with a welcome to 'Digging for Truth,' a show sponsored by the Associates for Biblical Research. The guest for this segment is Dr. Craig Evans from Houston Baptist University, specializing in Christian origins and the Gospels. The show's focus is on the reliability of New Testament texts, and Dr. Evans shares his background in studying ancient manuscripts, including the Dead Sea Scrolls. He discusses his experiences with original texts and the importance of understanding the context of Jesus' teachings and the writing process of the Gospels.

05:01

🔍 Misquoting Jesus: The Debate

The conversation shifts to address the claim that the events surrounding Jesus' life, as recorded in the New Testament, have been significantly altered over time. Dr. Evans explains the two phases of potential misquoting: the initial recording of Jesus' teachings by his disciples and the subsequent copying of these texts through the centuries. He emphasizes that while there may be minor variations in the texts due to copying errors, the overall message and teachings of Jesus remain intact and reliable. The discussion highlights the importance of understanding the pedagogical and historiographical aspects of the Gospels.

10:01

📚 The Rich Manuscript Tradition

Dr. Evans delves into the vast number of Greek New Testament manuscripts available, which provides a strong foundation for textual criticism. He explains that while scribes may have made errors, the sheer number of manuscripts allows scholars to identify and correct these errors, ensuring the accuracy of the original texts. The discussion touches on the work of Bart Ehrman, both as a popular author and as a scholar, and how his views on the textual criticism of the New Testament are not as radical as sometimes portrayed. The segment concludes with a call for a balanced and informed approach to understanding the reliability of the New Testament texts.

15:03

🕰️ Longevity of Ancient Manuscripts

The discussion continues with the longevity of ancient manuscripts, particularly those related to the New Testament. Dr. Evans cites historical evidence and the practices of ancient libraries to argue that original texts, or autographs, were kept in circulation for hundreds of years. He references the claims of early Church Fathers and the findings of archaeological discoveries to support the idea that these texts were treasured and preserved by the early Christian community. The segment emphasizes the care with which these documents were handled and the likelihood that they were destroyed due to persecution rather than neglect.

20:04

🎞️ Fragments of Truth: A Visual Journey

The final segment introduces the movie 'Fragments of Truth,' in which Dr. Evans participated. The movie aims to visually present the ancient manuscripts and their locations to the audience, featuring interviews with experts in the field. Dr. Evans emphasizes the importance of showing the quality and authenticity of these manuscripts to build confidence in the reliability of the New Testament text. The movie serves as a testament to the preservation efforts of the early Church and the scholarly consensus on the text's authenticity.

25:05

🙌 Conclusion and Encouragement

The episode concludes with a summary of the key points discussed and an encouragement for viewers to watch 'Fragments of Truth' to gain a deeper understanding of the New Testament manuscripts. Dr. Evans' expertise is acknowledged, and the show reiterates the message that the text of the New Testament can be trusted as a reliable record of Jesus' teachings and the Apostles' writings.

Keywords

💡Archaeology

Archaeology is the study of human history and prehistory through the excavation of sites and the analysis of artifacts and other physical remains. In the context of the video, archaeology is used to demonstrate the reliability of biblical accounts by uncovering physical evidence that supports historical claims made in the Bible. The script mentions the Associates for Biblical Research, which uses archaeological findings to affirm the historical accuracy of the Bible.

💡New Testament

The New Testament is the second part of the Christian biblical canon, an account of the life and teachings of Jesus Christ and his early followers. The video discusses the reliability of the New Testament text, exploring how the events and teachings recorded in it have been preserved and transmitted over time, as exemplified by the discussion on the longevity of manuscripts and the accuracy of their copying.

💡Papyri

Papyri, the plural form of 'papyrus,' refers to manuscripts made from the papyrus plant, which was used in ancient Egypt for writing before the invention of paper. In the video, papyri are highlighted as significant because they are some of the oldest surviving texts, including some of the earliest New Testament documents. The script mentions handling papyri and how they provide insights into the original manuscripts of the New Testament.

💡Manuscripts

Manuscripts are handwritten documents, particularly those that were written before the invention of printing. In the video, the discussion of manuscripts is central to understanding how the text of the New Testament has been preserved. The script references the thousands of Greek New Testament manuscripts that provide scholars with a rich resource for textual criticism and help in determining the original readings of the texts.

💡Textual Criticism

Textual criticism is the study of the transmission and corruption of documents to determine their original wording. In the video, textual criticism is crucial for understanding how the New Testament text has been preserved and how scholars work to identify and correct errors that may have been introduced over time during the copying process.

💡Autographs

Autographs are the original documents or records written by the person whose name is on them. In the context of the video, the autographs refer to the original writings of the New Testament authors. The script discusses the longevity of these autographs and how they were preserved and venerated by early Christians, suggesting that they were not discarded but were likely destroyed during periods of persecution.

💡Variants

Variants refer to the differences in wording or other details found in different copies of a text. The video addresses the existence of variants in New Testament manuscripts and how textual critics use the vast number of available manuscripts to identify and correct these differences, aiming to reconstruct the original text.

💡Scribes

Scribes are individuals who抄write documents, often by hand. In the video, scribes are mentioned as the copyists who transmitted the New Testament text by hand before the advent of printing. The script discusses how scribal errors could be introduced during copying, but also how these errors could be identified and corrected through comparison with other manuscripts.

💡Bart Ehrman

Bart Ehrman is a prominent New Testament scholar who has written extensively on the subject of textual criticism and the reliability of the New Testament. The video references Ehrman's work, particularly his book 'Misquoting Jesus,' which has been both popular and scholarly. The script contrasts Ehrman's popular skepticism with his scholarly consensus that the New Testament text is reliable.

💡Fundamentalism

Fundamentalism, in a religious context, often refers to a strict adherence to certain basic principles or doctrines. In the video, the term is used to describe a brittle approach to biblical interpretation that is uncomfortable with the idea of any errors in the manuscripts. The script suggests that a more nuanced understanding of textual transmission is necessary to avoid unnecessary crises of faith.

Highlights

Introduction of Dr. Craig Evans, a professor of Christian origins at Houston Baptist University, discussing the reliability of New Testament texts.

Dr. Evans' expertise includes Jesus and the Gospels, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the study of original manuscripts.

Explanation of papyri, the ancient writing material made from reeds, and its significance in preserving early Christian texts.

Discussion on the two phases of potential misquoting of Jesus: initial teachings and later manuscript copying.

Jesus' teaching methods and the expectation for disciples to adapt and apply his teachings, including paraphrasing.

Assurance that differences in wording among Gospels do not indicate inaccuracies in the transmission of Jesus' teachings.

Emphasis on the rigorous process of manuscript proofreading and correction in ancient times to minimize errors.

Dr. Evans' confidence in the accuracy of the New Testament text based on the vast number of available manuscripts.

Comparison of the New Testament manuscript record to other Greco-Roman texts, highlighting its unparalleled preservation.

The role of textual criticism in identifying and correcting scribal errors in ancient manuscripts.

Bart Ehrman's dual role as a popular skeptic and a scholarly textual critic who acknowledges the reliability of the New Testament text.

The impact of Bart Ehrman's work on the church, prompting a strong response and production of apologetic material.

Dr. Evans' concern over brittle fundamentalism and the importance of a robust understanding of Scripture.

The concept of manuscript variance and how it is managed through the comparison of thousands of manuscripts.

The longevity of ancient manuscripts, with some remaining in circulation for hundreds of years.

Historical evidence suggesting that original Christian texts were preserved and venerated, contrary to claims of their early loss.

The destruction of early Christian texts during the Diocletian persecution as a likely cause for the disappearance of autographs.

Recommendation of the movie 'Fragments of Truth' featuring Dr. Evans, which explores the reliability of New Testament manuscripts.

Transcripts

hi welcome to another exciting episode

of digging for truth sponsored by the

associates for biblical research located

in Lancaster County Pennsylvania a br

has been serving the body of Christ for

nearly 50 years sharing information from

the world of archaeology and biblical

studies to show the reliability of the

biblical accounts today we have a

special guest joining us by Skype from

Houston Texas dr. Craig Evans from

Houston Baptist University dr. Evans

welcome to the show we're glad to have

you all the way from Texas with us thank

you very much good to be with you yeah

it's great now you're the professor of

Christian origins at Houston Baptist

University and before we get into our

discussion today we're gonna be talking

about something very exciting the

reliability of a New Testament text and

I'm I'm so excited to have you here to

talk about this important subject if you

would just tell the audience a little

bit about what you do at Houston Baptist

University some of your background and

your interest and expertise my area of

expertise is Jesus and the Gospels but

also areas closely related to that that

would include the Dead Sea Scrolls which

I had the great privilege when I was a

doctoral student to study with John

Trevor and William Hugh Brownlee they

were the first two Americans actually to

see the scrolls when they came to light

in 1947 and 1948 in Israel one of the

things that I emphasized as a doctoral

student it was just all about a

Claremont where I did my PhD was getting

into original text so that was when I

had my first exposure to actual

manuscripts not just the printed

editions that everybody can use like

your Greek New Testament and I continued

pursuing that on into my career over the

decades so I've had the privilege of

being in the Sackler manuscript room in

the bodily and an Oxford

I've actually handled papyri I've held

ancient codices in my hands

including Dead Sea scrolls and fragments

like that and so that's been an emphasis

in my career and that is the original

manuscripts right canonical or non

canonical and the light they shed on the

early

and especially on Jesus in the Gospels

well that's excellent so you've had your

hands on some of the most ancient and

most ancient documents of the of the New

Testament that we that we possess tell

our audience a little bit about what

papyri is use the term papyri it's

really really fascinating let's talk

about that for a brief second what our

prep I read yeah papyrus that's where we

get our word paper by the way it's it's

a read the that used to be quite

prolific not so much now in the marshy

Delta of the of the Nile River in Egypt

and so long long time ago thousands of

years ago the Egyptians discovered that

if you cut these those Reed's into

strips and then lay them out in a

horizontal pattern and then a vertical

pattern on top press them they'll just

naturally dry out and become sheets of

paper and and very durable and of course

obviously durable we have papyrus today

that's been recovered from the dry sands

of Egypt and tombs and so on 3,000 years

old and even older and so that's where

paper came from and so that became a

valuable commodity in the time of Jesus

and the Roman Empire it was hugely

important later on people started using

animal skins calf skin stretching it out

making parchment so that became a

writing medium that's what it is so we

say papyrus and the plural is papyri

yeah that's what we're talking about

very ancient ancient material it's

incredible how long some of it has

lasted now we're going to jump right in

with the the big question first and

they're gonna kind of work through the

details and and and really people out

there scholars you know this more than

anyone and even a lot of lay people in

in the culture that we live in will make

this radical claim that the events

surrounding the life of Jesus of

Nazareth that are recorded in the New

Testament between the time that Jesus

lived and the time later these texts

have been radically changed and that's a

it's a challenge for the church to

respond

to this claim now I see you're smiling

because I know you have the answers many

answers to this this challenge but the

question is fundamentally has has Jesus

been misquoted let's let's start with

that big question and work through that

well there are two things that come into

play and they're really like apples and

oranges there are two separate things

one of them is just listening to Jesus

hearing him teach and then deciding to

write down some of the things that he

taught and so that's the one phase and

that's what we call our two things

involve pedagogy how Jesus taught and

how he expected his disciples to learn

what he taught and historiography that

is the writing of the history itself so

that's one part of it and so you go from

Jesus the teacher to the disciples the

learners to people writing down what

Jesus taught things they saw him do

things that happened and so forth so the

chance for misquoting

could take place there where people

simply misrepresent what Jesus taught

however there's a second there's a

second phase and that's just once the

Gospels are written down they get copied

and they get copied again and again and

down through the centuries until we

finally reach you know the printing

press in the 15th century and so that's

the possibility where changes can take

place there where a scribe makes a

mistake

he's simply goofs writes the wrong word

maybe he does that deliberately does it

accidentally whatever so those are the

two ways that you can misquote Jesus

either misrepresent him at the very

beginning when a gospel is written or

perhaps blunders somehow and copying a

gospel so let me answer your question

Jesus taught his disciples and said look

guys here's my teaching and what we need

to understand he didn't require his

disciples to memorize his words

word-for-word I think there was some of

that I think sometimes you have Jesus

quoted word for it but he was teaching

most of the time in Aramaic

so there's translation going on anyway

and if you turn to Matthew 13 he tells

his disciples that if you're a scribe

trained for the kingdom of heaven and

you really know your stuff you can dip

into the treasure box

and pull out old and new teaching and

when I take that to mean and

commentators agree this means that Jesus

is expecting his disciples to adapt to

apply his teaching and that includes

paraphrasing it once you recognize that

then you see oh the wording is a little

bit different when you compare Matthew

and Luke there's nothing to be shocked

about this this is not a tape-recording

society this is not videotape it's Jesus

teaching his disciples and saying do you

understand me are you ascribe trained

for the kingdom they say yes we

understand you so I am very satisfied at

that first phase I'm not worried about

Matthew Mark Luke and John with

difference in wording because that's the

way Jesus taught his disciples the

question is did they understand it all

the evidence suggests they did and if

they got it wrong then why do

archaeologists use the Gospels why do

Jewish archaeologists use the Gospels if

they're inaccurate and if they're full

of mistakes that then brings us to the

next phase were they properly copied

sure they were dead scribes make

mistakes well of course of course

everybody every copyist makes mistakes

that's why they then proofread their

work and catch most of their mistakes

someone else proofreads it we have

manuscripts with the corrections and the

margins so the real question is are we

in a situation where we we honestly

don't know how did the text originally

read because the originals are gone and

are we in that position

no and real textual critics will tell

you that there might be a handful of

verses where we're not sure how it

originally read but it's a small number

and not one has anything to do with

important teaching in the New Testament

well we're gonna pick up on what you

just said in just a moment and we will

be right back Vimal and spade is a

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published by the associates for biblical

research

from a scholarly and conservative

viewpoint bible and spade supports the

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[Music]

welcome back to digging for truth I'm

joined today by dr. Craig Evans a

professor of Christian origins at

Houston Baptist University and we're

talking about the reliability of the New

Testament text and our last segment dr.

Evans started talking about all the

manuscripts that we have that are

available to us and the way that

sometimes errors or mistakes crept into

the text but how we're gonna talk now in

this segment how we don't need to be

alarmed by that so dr. Evans let's pick

up from our last segment about this

concept of copying what scribes did in

the ancient world and the what I call a

lot of people call an embarrassment of

riches that we have within number of

manuscripts that we have let you roll

with it from there well yes that's true

we have more than 5,000 Greek New

Testaments either whole or part and and

some of these large chunks of the Greek

New Testament that reached back within a

couple hundred years of when the

originals were written and so as a

manuscript record it's unparalleled

there's nothing else from the

greco-roman world that has Greek and

Latin text classical texts nothing that

compares to the record of the New

Testament and this is great for the

textual critic I mean it's daunting on

the one hand because the textual critic

has so many manuscripts that it is

humanly impossible to compare them all

but on the other hand he has so many

manuscripts that he can then do enough

comparison and be satisfied that he

knows what the original text was because

when a scribe makes a mistake you know

another scribe might copy his same

mistake and carry it over into a new

copy of Scripture that's true but all

the other scribes hundreds and hundreds

of other scribes elsewhere they don't

make that mistake and so what happens is

the textual critic today can take the

manuscripts and compare them and very

quickly identify the the error the one

the the outlier the the reading that is

not original now by the way cuz the

scribes from antiquity they pick up on

that too they're not stupid they realize

this can't be right somebody's made a

mistake yes and they scribble a

correction

so there is no mystery and even a

skeptic like you know bart airmen who

you know made a lot of noise at his book

misquoting Jesus there are two Bart

Airman's a lot of people don't know that

there's the popular BART airman who

wrote the book misquoting Jesus but

there's also the scholar Bart airman a

textual critic and he isn't radical like

that at all

yes so so let's talk a little bit about

about dr. airman because you know I find

it interesting back in the mid 2000s

when he started publishing all of his

stuff you know putting trying to shed a

doubt on the reliability of the New

Testament in a popular he went over you

know into the popular realm and a lot of

people bought into this but he kind of

talks out of two sides of his mouth with

this on one hand so I'll let you comment

on that the other is the thing that I

think has benefitted the church from dr.

airman has done is the church has

responded very strongly against what

he's tried to argue and produced a

massive amount of material maybe you

could talk about those about those two

things because I think that's important

yes it is important you know what what

dr. Airman's books

I think revealed was that the church

hadn't fought through on a popular level

some of these critical issues there was

this naive fundamentalism which is what

Bart airman came out of as a young

Christian teenager yeah which is really

too bad and by the way I have a pastoral

sense about this and I don't see him as

an enemy and I don't want him harmed I

care about the guy I consider him a

friend I had know him personally but

there was a brittle fundamentalism there

that didn't that was very ill at ease

with the idea of errors in the

manuscripts scribal errors accidental or

even deliberate and and that was he just

didn't know how to deal with that and it

created a crisis of faith when somebody

pointed something out when he was at

Princeton seminary that maybe there's

simply a mistake in the text and somehow

in the manuscript tradition going way

back

something got bungled and now we don't

really know what the original reading

was or something like that and this

caused his faith to crumble

he began he says he himself describes it

at misquoting Jesus everything began to

unravel and and so for me that's a

that's a big concern I have an academic

pedagogical and pastoral concern that

that not happen to other people and so

when I teach my students or I'm in a

church setting preaching or whatever I

say my you know my goodness you can't

have a brittle understanding of

Scripture like that in a sense it's not

scriptural

that isn't what scripture says about

itself that isn't how Jesus taught his

disciples that's not how the Apostles

taught the church this is a brittle

fundamentalism that's relatively modern

and it becomes a false stumbling block

no one should trip over that yeah I

think it's tragic yeah I agree with you

and I think that's the kind of posture

that we ought to have we've talked on

our program before when we respond we

can demolish arguments but not people

and there's a difference we can show an

argument to be a bad argument against

the faith but not the person we have to

remember that dr. Airmen and others who

hold these skeptical views are made in

the image of God and I think that's an

important pastoral concern that we ought

to have we got about a minute and a half

left in this segment let's just talk

about what we call these errors or

variants in the text the distinction

between the copies in the original text

if you could just sort of quickly lay

that out for the audience because I

think many people that have been going

to church for 20 30 40 years they've

never thought about any of that and when

they hear the word you know alarm bells

go off yeah that's right you have the

autographs the originals the very first

copies and that would mean a copy that

is put in the mail you might say

distributed circulated then there's the

original copy also a second original

copy that the author retains but once

copies start being made of those

originals invariably somebody makes a

mistake or just doesn't quite write it

correctly and then that's what then sets

this chain in in effect and people then

look at that say well that's must be a

mistake and they correct it and

sometimes they correct it correctly and

sometimes they don't

and this is why you end up with what we

call variance different readings but as

I said a little earlier we have enough

manuscripts that we can compare them and

we can get back to what we believe and

with good reason is the original reading

it makes sense and so forth and the

scholars across the board whether

they're Evan Jellicle and conservative

or not that's widely recognized and like

I said Bart Ehrman as a scholar when

he's with scholars and not in front of a

popular audience he's pretty well that

way too he's actually said in the second

edition of misquoting Jesus that his

views of the New Testament as attached

to critic are not any different from

bruce metzger his teacher and bruce

metzger was a devout christian

evangelical yes excellent okay folks

we'll be right back for a third segment

with dr. Evans thanks in a culture of

intense Bible denying skepticism

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to strengthen followers of Jesus by

affirming the authority of the Bible our

archaeological fieldwork and original

research form a strong foundation in

upholding the reliability of the

Scriptures for students or anyone asking

if they can really trust the Bible

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thank you for standing with us

[Music]

hi welcome back to digging for truth I'm

your co-host Henry Smith and I'm joined

today by dr. Craig Evans from Houston

Baptist University who's an expert on

Christian origins and the New Testament

texts particularly the Gospels of Jesus

Christ dr. Evans we were talking about

the what we called the embarrassment of

riches the manuscript tradition that we

have preserving the New Testament that

the church ought not be alarmed by the

fact that copies have errors we can

reproduce the original text I believe

that that's a theological phenomenon

actually that God and his Providence has

has allowed that to happen so we can

know what it is that he wanted us to

learn from Jesus himself and his

apostles but let's talk about something

you've been doing research on the length

of time the longevity of the manuscripts

from the ancient world because this is

really a important component of the

whole argument that they've been

preserved for us I'll let you go you

know that it's a very important topic

when I was in seminary it was the first

time I thought about and I asked her

professor you know how long did the

originals autographs as they're called

and the very first copies how long did

they remain in circulation and my

professor said oh that's an interesting

question I haven't thought about it

before I don't know 20 years ten years I

don't know and and so that's stuck with

me for a long time it was only later

when I was doing research relating to

papyri and some work that's been done on

libraries that have been discovered

intact like a tox ring cos thanks to

Grenfell and Hunt who found papyri in

Egypt back in the 1890s in the beginning

of 20th century

they made some interesting discoveries

they would find a basket of books book

rolls that have been thrown out and of

course they could date them by the

handwriting and they and the manuscripts

dated to the 1st or 2nd century and yet

they were thrown out in the 4th or 5th

century and what that led to was the

realization that my goodness these these

writings stayed in circulation for

200-300 years or longer well then we

started taking a serious look at what

the ancient writers said and that

include greek pagans Greek and Roman who

would talk about

we've got copies autographs of Aristotle

that are 250 years old so so has some

manuscripts that are 300 years old and

so then we took seriously church fathers

like Tertullian and the Year 190 he says

look if you don't believe me why don't

you look at the originals of Paul's

letters and actually names five

different cities seven different letters

of Paul which he claimed were still in

existence well in the year 190 that

would make these letters a hundred and

thirty five hundred and forty years old

well it turns out he isn't just making

this up this isn't nonsense

we actually have hard evidence that

literature was treasured books were

expensive no wonder they take good care

of them and preserve them and could last

two or three hundred years yeah it seems

to make sense when you look at the

totality of the evidence now I've read

you know online some people sort of pick

it to chileans say that he was

exaggerating or making a apologetic

point but but when you start looking at

it's not just him saying it's it's the

research that you've done it's the

matrix of evidence and and just the if

you could talk about this just a common

sense of if a church has the Gospel of

John the original it's not gonna throw

it away it's going to keep it as long as

you possible that just it just doesn't

make any sense that the church would not

treat these original autographs with

great care so I would like you to just

expand upon that for well that's a good

example the Gospel of John Bishop Peter

Bishop of Alexandria that's in North

Africa near the Nile River he refers to

the autograph the original of the Gospel

of John that's in Ephesus where the

faithful venerate it well when he says

this this is in about the Year 290 that

would make the Gospel John two hundred

years old well we now know that that's

quite possible and the other thing that

that he says about it is that you know

it's a public document and he

says by God's grace it still exists now

what does he mean by that if you know

your history in the 290s

Emperor Diocletian is trying to destroy

Christian books and he destroys a lot of

them yes and in fact in the aftermath

Bishop Peter himself is is martyred at

the very beginning of the 4th century so

I think what happened was the early

Christians treasured the autographs of

course they did not just for academic

purposes so they could study them and

copy them and so on but they venerated

them but because they were venerated

they were known and the the state could

confiscate them and destroy them and I

think that's what happened to the

autographs in the 3rd century and the

beginning the 4th century they were

deliberately destroyed and that's why

they disappeared yeah that makes a lot

of sense historically that that the

church would have kept them as long as

possible would not have deliberately

gotten rid of the autographs and that

they disappeared because of persecution

I want to ask you here we're down to

about a minute and a half about the

movie that you were in called fragments

of truth which tells people a lot more

about what we're discussing we just

touched the tip of the tip of the tip of

the iceberg today if you could tell take

about a minute and tell folks about this

great movie I've seen it a couple times

I absolutely love it I want to keep

watching it what we wanted to do was to

show people visually let them see what

the manuscripts are and where they are

so we went to half a dozen different

locations we showed our viewers the

oldest manuscripts and we talked to

experts people who are curators of the

museums and the library's textual

critics papper ologists all of the

experts I I didn't want this my opinion

there wasn't a reflection of my research

I wanted 20 different people around the

world to be interviewed and talk about

the old manuscripts so that people could

see for themselves these things do exist

we have a whole bunch of them they're

good quality

they've been carefully studied and we

have every

reason to have confidence that the text

of the New Testament that we have today

is the text of the New Testament that

the original authors wrote excellent I

want to commend everyone out there to

pick up a copy of fragments of truth

with dr. Evans dr. Evans we want to

thank you so much for taking time out of

your your very busy schedule to share

your expertise with us about this

subject thank you for joining us today

we are so grateful for your work

you're very welcome great to be with you

friends I just want to encourage you to

pick up a copy of fragments of truth

online at faith Life TV it's an

excellent movie you can trust the text

of the New Testament what Jesus said and

what the Apostles taught has been

preserved for us thank you for joining

us today

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