Future Proof Your Business: Gen Zs and Hedging Against Rising Debt | Idris & Leon Jala | EP18
Summary
TLDRIn this episode of 'The Game of Impossible' podcast, Leon and his father Idris delve into the necessity of transforming the global economic model, addressing unsustainable debt and the need for innovation. They discuss their experiences in Indonesia, engaging with future leaders and sharing insights on transformation through business, leadership, sport, and faith. The conversation highlights embracing megatrends, future-proofing organizations, and the importance of adapting to the evolving needs of younger generations, all while maintaining a focus on purpose and legacy.
Takeaways
- đ The world needs to change its economic model, with the U.S. being highlighted as an unsustainable model despite its status as a modern world leader.
- đ There is a significant number of Americans living on food stamps, indicating that the U.S. has not developed in an inclusive manner.
- đŒ High leverage in businesses and governments is common but becomes problematic when debt becomes unsustainable, affecting countries like the U.S., Japan, and the UK.
- đ The world is facing a potential shift from traditional currencies to digital ones, which may become the norm in global trade contracts in the future.
- đ„ The healthcare industry is in need of innovation, especially with the aging population and the rise of non-communicable diseases, suggesting a move towards digital and remote specialist consultations.
- đ Electric vehicles are a growing trend due to climate change concerns, presenting opportunities for companies that can innovate in this sector.
- đĄ Mega trends like climate change require massive investments, such as the estimated $150 trillion needed for energy transition, which may not be feasible with current debt levels.
- đ Successful countries like those in Scandinavia have managed high-income statuses without high debts by implementing high taxes and transparent spending on public services.
- đ ïž Organizations need to future-proof themselves by identifying and embracing mega trends, innovating their business models, products, services, and processes.
- đ€ The concept of 'giving away your best' is highlighted as a way to create a legacy and positively influence other industries and sectors through the dispersion of talent and culture.
- đ Key to future-proofing is the willingness to let go of the best talents, document processes, and embrace the revolving door of top talent, ensuring the organization's DNA and culture continue to thrive.
Q & A
What is the main topic discussed in the 'Game of Impossible' podcast episode?
-The main topic discussed is the need for a change in the global economic model, with a focus on the United States as a model country, and the challenges faced by the current system, including high leverage and unsustainable debt.
What is the significance of the number 18 in the context of the podcast episode?
-The number 18 signifies that it is the 18th episode of the 'Game of Impossible' podcast.
What was the purpose of the invitation to Jakarta?
-The invitation to Jakarta was for the speaker to be one of the lecturers at a leadership and development course aimed at preparing decision-makers in Indonesia for the incoming president's administration.
What is the role of the 'IT Christian Fellowship' in the context of the podcast?
-The 'IT Christian Fellowship' hosted a Q&A session where the podcast hosts discussed transformation through the lens of business, leadership, sport, and faith, with a Christian Ministry perspective.
How does the speaker describe the current state of public debt globally?
-The speaker describes the current state of public debt as unsustainable, with the total debt of the world reaching 307 trillion US dollars, which is 336% of global GDP.
What is the speaker's view on the future of global trade and currency?
-The speaker believes that in the future, global trade will likely be denominated in some form of digital currency, possibly a basket of currencies not owned by a single organization or country.
What is the concept of 'Mega Trends' as discussed in the podcast?
-The 'Mega Trends' refer to significant global trends that organizations, businesses, or governments need to identify and adapt to in order to stay at the forefront of innovation and transformation.
What does the speaker suggest as a way to future-proof organizations?
-The speaker suggests identifying and embracing Mega Trends, innovating business models, products, services, and processes, and eliminating, simplifying, standardizing, and automating where possible.
How does the speaker address the issue of high attrition rates in the consultancy industry?
-The speaker addresses the issue by suggesting that organizations should innovate their HR policies to suit the trends, such as giving employees a sense of ownership through virtual equity units and being upfront about their career aspirations.
What is the concept of 'multiplication' as discussed in relation to leadership and talent development?
-The 'multiplication' concept refers to the idea of leaders investing in their team members, not just to keep them within the organization, but to empower them to go out and make an impact in different sectors, thereby spreading the organization's culture and values.
What are some of the Mega Trends mentioned in the podcast that organizations should be aware of?
-Some of the Mega Trends mentioned include climate change, energy transition, aging population, non-communicable diseases, AI and digital innovation, and the rise of electric vehicles.
Outlines
đ Economic Model Critique and Transformation
The paragraph discusses the need for a global economic model change, challenging the pedestal position of the United States due to high numbers of Americans reliant on food stamps. It introduces the 'Game of Impossible' podcast with hosts Leon and his father Idris, who explore transformation across business, leadership, sport, and faith. The conversation includes their experiences lecturing in Indonesia for leadership development and engaging with a Christian audience, reflecting on how to better connect with younger generations and future-proof organizations, businesses, and ministries with authenticity and care.
đ Global Debt and Economic Sustainability
This section delves into global economic trends, highlighting unsustainable public debt and its implications. The speakers discuss the high leverage model prevalent in governments and tech businesses, pointing out the inability of many countries to pay their debts, leading to potential economic decay. Examples of countries with high debt-to-GDP ratios are provided, along with the suggestion that political promises and lack of prioritization exacerbate the issue. The paragraph also touches on the potential for digital currencies to replace traditional ones in global contracts.
đïž Economic Models of Success and Adaptation
The paragraph examines successful economic models, contrasting high debt countries with those like the Nordic nations that have achieved high-income status without excessive borrowing. It emphasizes the importance of transparency, public ownership, and local government control over tax spending. The discussion also covers the need for global economic reevaluation, predicting a shift towards digital currencies and the potential for innovative business models to address wealth disparity and uneven development.
đ Global Trade and the Impact of China's Economic Growth
The focus shifts to China's role as the 'world's factory' and its impact on global trade. The paragraph discusses China's economic growth and its potential challenges with debt accumulation. It also touches on China's changing stance on globalization, moving from a closed to an open market approach, encouraging Chinese companies to penetrate global markets. The speakers consider the importance of observing and learning from different economic models to innovate and adapt to mega trends.
đ± Climate Change and Energy Transition Challenges
This section addresses the pressing issue of climate change and the monumental task of energy transition, which requires an estimated investment of $150 trillion. The speakers express skepticism about the feasibility of achieving climate goals given the current global debt levels and call for innovative solutions. They also discuss the importance of future-proofing processes by eliminating unnecessary steps, simplifying, standardizing, and automating where possible.
đ ïž Streamlining Processes and Fostering a Sense of Purpose
The paragraph discusses strategies for streamlining processes in organizations, advocating for the elimination of redundant reports and activities. It emphasizes the importance of aligning work with a 'true north' and ensuring that all tasks contribute to a clear purpose. The speakers share insights on engaging younger generations, who seek meaningful work and are less tolerant of unnecessary bureaucracy, and the benefits of creating a culture that supports personal growth and development.
đ€ Innovative HR Policies and Talent Retention
The conversation turns to human resources and the innovative policies implemented at Pando Associates to foster a sense of ownership and reduce staff turnover. The introduction of virtual equity units, allowing employees to share in company profits, is highlighted as a strategy that encourages cost consciousness and productivity. The paragraph also touches on the benefits of transparent communication about career aspirations and the positive impact of supporting employees in their professional development.
đ Embracing Change and Multiplication of Talent
This section explores the concept of embracing change and the importance of documenting processes to ensure continuity as top talent leaves and new talent joins. The speakers discuss the benefits of a revolving door policy, where the best people are allowed to leave and be replaced by others, maintaining a vibrant and dynamic work environment. They also reflect on the biblical principle of multiplication, suggesting that the dispersion of talent into different sectors can lead to broader world change.
đ Future-Proofing Organizations and Adapting to Mega Trends
The final paragraph emphasizes the need for organizations to future-proof themselves by observing and learning from innovative leaders in their fields. It discusses the importance of adapting to mega trends such as aging populations, the rise of AI and digital technology in healthcare, and the shift towards electric vehicles due to climate change concerns. The speakers predict that companies that successfully navigate these transitions will thrive, and they encourage listeners to stay informed and innovative.
Mindmap
Keywords
đĄEconomic Model
đĄFood Stamps
đĄTransformation
đĄMega Trends
đĄInnovation
đĄDebt Distress
đĄDigital Currency
đĄProcess Efficiency
đĄTrue North
đĄVirtual Equity
đĄMultiplication
Highlights
The necessity for a global economic model change is emphasized, challenging the pedestal position of the United States as a model country.
The discussion of the high number of Americans living on food stamps, indicating socio-economic disparities.
Introduction of the podcast 'Game of Impossible' by Leon and his dad Idris, focusing on transformation through various lenses.
Experiences from a leadership and development course in Jakarta, aiming to prepare decision-makers for future challenges.
The importance of discipline of action, as demonstrated by recording a podcast episode despite heavy weather conditions.
Engagement with the IT Christian Fellowship, exploring the integration of Christian Ministry with transformation principles.
The Alpha Regional Gathering conference's focus on youth engagement and the emerging patterns of Generation Alpha.
The concept of 'future proofing' organizations, businesses, and Christian Ministries with care and authenticity.
Analysis of mega trends and identifying organizations at the frontier of innovation to adapt and transform effectively.
The issue of unsustainable debt accumulated by governments worldwide, as highlighted by the IMF.
The political challenges leading to high leverage models and unsustainable debt, affecting social sectors like education and health.
The success of Nordic countries in achieving high-income status without high debts, through high taxes and local government control.
The potential shift from traditional currencies to digital currencies in global trade contracts.
Innovation in HR policies, such as virtual equity units, to give employees a sense of ownership and reduce attrition.
The strategy of documenting processes and encouraging talent to disperse and multiply the organization's culture in different sectors.
The importance of identifying and eliminating unnecessary processes, reports, activities, and meetings to increase efficiency.
The potential for technology and AI to revolutionize healthcare delivery, including remote specialist consultations.
The expectation of a radical innovation in the healthcare industry, possibly led by a company that could become the 'next Amazon'.
The significance of electric vehicles and the energy transition as mega trends, presenting opportunities for innovative companies.
Transcripts
the world has to change the economic
model let's be clear most of us put the
United States on the pedestal of a model
country in the current modern world
system but if I ask you how many
Americans are living on food stamps the
official numb is more
[Music]
than welcome to the game of impossible
my name is Leon this is my dad Idris
Jala we are a fatherson podcast where we
discuss all things transformation
through the lens of business leadership
Sport and Faith it's a very rainy Friday
afternoon today W heavy heavy rain
thunder and lightning massive thunder
and lightning but you know we always
preach about having a discipline of
action so come rain or shine we will
deliver an episode to all of you today
marks our 18th episode gosh where has
the time gone absolutely 18 episode in
the meantime we've also explored doing
some live formats of this podcast right
you were invited we were invited to uh
to Jakarta recently what were we doing
there well that was the invitation of
the the incoming president so what
they're doing is that they're trying
very hard to make sure that the decision
makers in Indonesia are really geared up
and ready for the task at hand so
they're going through a two we uh
leadership and uh development course and
and so uh I was invited as one of the
lecturers at this event and so they have
six batches of that and altogether the
movers and shakers in in in Indonesia
will will be attending this this is the
the president elects uh wish that they
are ready by the time he comes in in
office in October this year yeah and
then last night we uh we did a session
at the it Christian Fellowship yeah you
you the star there yeah that that was
really good I it was the first time us
doing this kind of Q&A format but live
um and I think it worked really well um
this being a Christian audience then
obviously the style of it was a little
different uh it was also our first time
pioneering something which had maybe
more a more of a Christian Ministry skew
uh but trying to weave that in together
with your six secrets of transformation
which I think worked quite well yes it
it worked really well yes last night
yeah and I think in in in in Indonesia
they were very pleased with the the
session that that I put out there and
they requested that I continue to
participate in all the eight sessions uh
program that they have so you'll be
flying in actually again uh next week I
believe next week they asked me to fly
there but unfortunately I'm also
required to be in Singapore for a
similar event so I could not make it but
they they wanted me there so they will
do it online so I will be uh online uh
giving the talk yeah so I mean it's been
a bus couple of uh couple of weeks we've
also just had a conference recently um
in our church we are part of a wider
Alpha Hub and so we had our Alpha
Regional Gathering conference where all
of the regional officers from U the
southeast Asia the Asia Pacific region
gathered together to basically
re-envision um you know why we do what
we do with a greater sense of purpose
but this year there was a bit more of a
focus on uh youth actually how do we uh
how can churches uh and leaders in
general um in business to better engage
with the young people better engage with
not just genzies but even starting to
think about what are some of the
emerging patterns among gen Alpha which
is isa's my my daughter's generation you
know I think with all of this we've been
talking so much about young people and I
think this was also a recurring theme in
some of our discussions with the it
Christian Fellowship uh yesterday how do
we better engage with young people um
has been the topic of the week which I
think has got me to think about how do
we future proof our teams how do we
future proof our businesses how do we
future proof our Christian Ministries a
little bit more effectively and with a
lot more care and authenticity as well
um you know that as you as you
um as as you you know perhaps go through
this time of sabatical um maybe what are
some of your Reflections on that for
pandu
associates let me Begin by by saying
that for for Pando Associates and just
like any other organization and
companies when you put a question how
can you future proof your organization
so there are two things you have to do
and we've started to do that we look at
the big signs we call them the mega
Trends the mega Trends what you see
around the world and then asking the
questions who which organization which
businesses or which governments are are
really embracing these Mega Trends and
innovating themselves or transforming
themselves to adapt to the mega Trend so
that they on the frontier the Casp of
these Mega Trends so you need to
identify which are the organizations
that are at the frontier and if you know
which are those organizations or
governments that the frontier of this
Mega Trends then you ask a question what
exactly are they doing what exactly are
they doing to do that so some of those
Innovation that they're do doing may be
to do with the business model they
innovate the business model they can
innovate also the product and services
that they have they can innovate the
processes so when they do that you would
see that they are beating the
competition so that's why they are there
at the frontier so I think when we are
doing our work we are always looking for
the Mega trends at the same time looking
for the companies that are on the
frontier of the Innovation to embrace
those the trends so that's one way to
look at it the other way to look at the
big signs what are the signs that your
organizations in a state of decay this
is very important you look at the mega
trends that in a state of decay and if
there are problems that will also tell
you you have to work really hard at
making sure that you avoid the Decay
from continuing can we can we talk about
some examples here please yeah yeah
let me just say with with governments I
look at some of the signs the big signs
in the current economic models of
governments around the world many
governments around the world have
accumulated unsustainable debt in fact
IMF announced that if you added all the
public debt of the whole world put them
all together the total debt of the whole
world the public debt comes to
307 trillion US dollar that is
336 of global GDP that means you take
the whole of the gdps of the world add
them all together and compare that
against the global debt the public debt
of the whole world the debt has surpass
it as I said three times 336 per. why do
you think the World At Large seems to be
heading in this direction because it's
not just unique to governments but you
know especially I think in the tech
world world that is the way a lot of
these kind of tech businesses are run
nowadays high growth but very very
heavily leveraged this is exactly the
point the model that has been used up to
now has always been very high leverage
exactly at you point the government
borrows a lot of money but High Leverage
is fine if you can pay your debts so if
you have enough revenue and you have
enough income to cover the payments of
your debt it's okay but when you reach a
point when you are struggling to pay
your debt that's become unsustainable
let's give example United States public
debt as percentage of G GDP is
123% their fiscal deficit already stands
at
7.3% of GDP and take another example
Japan I think is the worst example their
uh debt to GDP is
262 and their uh fiscal deficit is 6
point uh 6% the UK is 9 8% debt to GDP
and there also fiscal deficit
8.4 France is
112% so very even Singapore is already
standing at
187% very high debt by the case of
Singapore they able to pay for it now
but there there Comes A Time if they're
not careful they've unable to pay for it
they run to problem according to IMF
Leon big sign is that I may have said
60% of the lwi income countries are
already at debt distress level
what that means is there are to meet
debt payments alone just to meet debt
payment 100 countries in the world have
to cut spending on education have to cut
spending on health have to cut spending
on social protection for the poor so you
see it is a big problem so to my mind
the world is really struggling with with
this and if you look at United States
and other informing it though I'm surely
there must be something going on in in
The Wider socioeconomic landscape that
might be forcing the hand of whether
it's the business owner the CEO or the
government to end up moving in this
direction that is a problem of politics
because people want to win votes and
most government promise everything under
the Sun so they will make promises
during the Electoral campaign that
everything they will do and that will
cost them money and so the problem was
lack of
prioritization that is a big problem in
government and and why are they lacking
in prioritization because they make a
lot of promises during the election
campaign and that's how they run through
a lot of trouble and so that is a big
problem so the high leverage model is
flown but the good news is as I said
before you look at the big trends the
mega Trends then you ask the question
but who is now successful in backing the
strength but there I would say only
around less than 10% of countries that
have reach high income status have done
it in a manner that have not accumulated
very high debts the example being the
Nordic countries in Scandinavia they
follow the model that they don't borrow
too much money and but in those
countries they have very high taxes they
they tax the civilians a lot because
they very high taxes the government has
a lot of Revenue to then pay for top
notes public transport for public
education Etc and so at the same time
how do they s succeed in doing that to
convince the public why they need to pay
that amount of money I would say in the
case of many countries Scandinavia 70%
of their taxes is actually in the hands
of the local government the
municipalities only 30% is in the
federal government and so the civilians
they go to their town hall to determine
what we going to spend these taxes on
next year they can pinpoint the school
they can pinpoint the the port holes in
the road in that that vicinity the
bridges they need to fix so they know
exactly where the money will be spent so
the model has to change if you want to
tax a lot of people the level of
transparency and ownership as to what
how the money will be spend it must be
made clear to the people not so much
remotely at the federal government so I
would say those are the countries that
have successfully done it and so I mean
Leon when the governments in uh in uh in
Scandinavia if I ask most people the
quiz who is the Prime Minister of
Switzerland very very few people will
know the name and same if I say who is
the prime minister of uh Finland and Etc
and you know all these countries the
reason being the governments are very
small they don't have big governments
because a lot of the power is devolved
to municipalities and the local councils
and that's the way in which they do and
therefore that's why people accept the
taxes and so I would say
today the world has to change the
economic model let's be clear most of us
put the United States on the pedestal of
a country that we say well this is a
model country in the current Modern
World System that's the top but if I ask
you how many Americans are living on
food stamps the official numbers more
than 34 million Americans are living on
food stamps so it's not a country that
has developed itself in a manner that's
inclusive there's a lot of uneven
development and there's a lot of poor
people in America and there are lots of
rich people the gap between the rich and
poor has heightened as well and so I
think there are a lot of things that the
world has to reexamine at the time that
I I spent during my sabatical I began to
look at these numbers a lot more closely
and I'm totally convinced that the the
world has to inov inovate the world has
to look at a entirely new business model
and You' ask the question how is it the
United States despite its debt level and
its fiscal deficit the US dollar keep on
staying strong relative to many
currencies the reason is being most of
global trade I would say 90% of global
trade are denominated or in contracts
are denominated in US currency but there
will come a time when that change I
don't think the MBE will become the the
currency of uh Global contracts it will
be in my view if you ask me to bet 5
years down the road 10 years down the
road it will be some form of digital
currency and that is how it will be a
basket it will not be owned by an
organization be owned by countries that
come together with a model so you do
believe that the digital currencies do
actually hold weight maybe now things
are still a little bit unstable but you
do believe that in the future that will
be the thing yeah but I mean you look at
China China has not developed they have
not grown the de level to the same level
as the world and so but if they are if
they're not careful they will
accommodate the debt as well but I think
they also why do you think they
haven't China has been able to do it
simply because the beauty for China is
they have become the factory of the
world so China for all that you say
today they manufacture everything and
they export them and and so because of
that the development their GDP although
their GDP may not be that big because
they are just a huge exporting country
and therefore they depend on the global
businesses to do it the interesting
thing is that in the past people are
talking about China being an aaric
government they're closing their doors
to trade the global TR globalization
today more and more China is now saying
that we should open borders we should we
should allow Chinese companies to to
penetrate markets globally so the
Chinese model is something to look at
and and watch but I would say it's the
Scandinavians have figured it out some
clous even South Korea have done that
too they have not accumulated a lot of
debts even closer to home New Zealand
hasn't accommodated a lot of debt
Holland hasn't accommodated a lot of
debt it seems to support you know
there's one of our earlier episodes
where I think it was ler who said that
uh a leader is most effective and people
barely know that he or she exists it
seems to be that way because all of
these countries that you pointed out
yeah yeah that they're not really
they're not really in the Limelight not
really in the Limelight interesting so I
my take today is that the world has to
put a cool towel on the head and begin
to analyze the current model because the
signs are not good without doubt I mean
today one Mega Trend you talk about Mega
Trend everybody is talking about climate
change massive issues on CL climate
change but for us to achieve this energy
transition that's being led out Malaysia
has its own National energy transition
plan for the whole world to do it Irena
the body that look at the data here they
estimate that the world were required to
invest something like US dollar $150
trillion
us just to focus on investing in climate
change so that we fulfill the energy
transition goals that are laid out there
Frankly Speaking I don't see how that
will happen because already the debt is
at such a high level
37 trillion us doar Global debt and now
you're saying a third of that has to be
borrowed more than half rather half of
that has to 150 trillion I don't see in
the next between now in the year uh 2035
and 2050 that we can achieve this
climate CH those are sounding like pie
in the sky so unless we find an entirely
new way to do it I don't think how we
can really really achieve those targets
I'm not so positive about it okay so
that's future you know thinking about
the future in terms of policy and then
the other thing you mentioned just now
was process so what does future proofing
our processes look like I think one of
the best ways to improve your current
processes is you call one of the earlier
episode we talk
about Sr
Essa so you look at your processes and
ask the question which part of your
processes are unnecessary and totally
redundant eliminate them e which of your
processes can be simplified really
radically
simplified which is the S another one is
to standardize them so that you don't
cost a lot of money by customization
that is another yes and a is then you
automate them so your processes you you
do not begin with automation you begin
with
elimination simplification
standardization then only automation so
if you start to do this you can really
really make your processes super duper
and that's what you need to that's
Innovation yeah you can innovate your
process big time yeah actually like
there's there's there's so much value in
even if you were to just implement the
first thing which is to eliminate yeah
that can already help greatly in terms
of process efficiency you know I can
think of that just the number of
meetings that we have actually since
done away with in the last couple of
years and what we thought might cause us
to be misaligned uh actually has helped
us to become more aligned because what
we do is when we have started to say we
are not going to have this regular
check-in as a team because we realize
well actually most of the time we're
just doing updates anyway which can be
done on either WhatsApp or email um it
actually becomes a bit of a waste of
time and actually takes away from I
think the whole purpose of having
meetings is to be able to either use
those to be spaces to actually get
things done or to solve problems um but
if your meetings just become a way of of
updating people on what has been
happening it actually takes away from
that and then the meetings then become
uh you know they then become draining
for people and that's why you have
people who are not looking you know who
don't look forward to going to meetings
but you know this is something that I
learned in my time in uh in pandu as
well when I was part of the the
communications arm there which was about
just doing away with the traditional WIP
having most of the WIP actually happen
on a on a centralized sheet whether it
is a productivity tool something like
notion or maybe it's a it's an Excel
sheet a collective Excel sheet all of
that can be done on that centralized
document but then we only meet in order
to solve problems right so only when
something in that uh in that wiip update
requires problem solving then we will we
will agree to to to meet and to discuss
it and that has been far more fruitful
for our teams because then they go into
meetings feing a little bit more
energized knowing that we are actually
going to try to solve something together
versus oh I know I actually have a lot
of work to do but now I have to go into
this meeting just to give an update
which I could have sent on email so I
think even just elimination in itself is
a very powerful very very powerful tool
very powerful very very powerful I mean
you you referred to one which is meeting
but I the way in which we always looked
at it is this thing called
RM R report so you put all the reports
and lay them on the table and ask which
of these reports should you eliminate
there are many redundant reports when I
work in Sri Lanka many years ago Shel
Sri Lanka I realized there was so many
reports that people didn't even read
them but they had to be done because
regularly they required so when I begin
to ask them why is this report there why
do you do it every month and there was
one guy that looked at me sir the reason
why this report was there was 15 years
ago we had a manager he wanted that
report when he left the subsequent
manager came in he didn't want to throw
away the report just in case I needed it
he had another
report so there were then two reports
when he left
he the guy didn't also remove the first
and the second report he added another
report so that is common across the
board nobody crucially asked the
question which of the reports are
actually
unnecessary and so if you get rid of
those reports you will reduce a lot of
unnecessary work on top of that the
remaining reports that you have you ask
the question 200 Pages which of the
pages do you really need do you need 200
Pages you might find maybe only 60 pages
are
necessary and therefore you get rid of
the rest of them you focus on what is
necessary so I think that's R the other
one is activities there's a lot of
activities that one is um is
self-explanatory a lot of things that
you do are unnecessary they don't
deliver Revenue they don't add any value
so you don't need to do those things and
then you have meetings the the one you
refer to the the last one is processes
these are the things that are very
important so you subject the RM to Sr
when you subject them to that you
fundamentally transform I would say in
governments a government that has
really made massive innovation in the
way the government runs is Estonia
because why is that the way in which
they did was they didn't start by saying
let's improve the current processes the
current report the current meetings that
we did didn't do that we just said let's
assume we don't have them let's start a
new yeah starting new what reports do we
need complete with a blank sheet of
paper and what processes do we need and
then they automated them so the most
automated government in the world is
Estonia interesting and so because they
started with a clean slate when we start
to improve from the current processes we
take a light years to make the radical
Improvement because there's always an
argument about keeping the allil and not
not really making fundamental changes
but Estonia is I think it's on the
frontier of e-government because they
fundamentally began by saying let's
start with a clean slate yeah and I
think that's very important because you
know I think one way to the question
obviously would be then how do we how do
we then discern what is worth keeping
and what is worth removing and that goes
back to the reason why you know step one
of of of what we do is to be very clear
on what our true north is and then to
then anchor everything towards that true
north so that becomes your that becomes
your your litus Tesla essentially if
this activity or this meeting this
report does not actually help us um you
knowes does not add value to the true
north then we eliminate but also you
know on the topic of young people um you
know we are seeing this this is not just
unique to genz gen alha but I mean even
even for Millennials um you know I think
the the the younger
we go the greater the importance or or
emphasis on sense of purpose to the work
that you do I think less and less people
are willing to just put up with jobs
that simply pay the bills um but they're
looking for a sense of purpose which I
think is great because that's in line
with what we talk about anyway you know
we always say that what we do needs to
be needs to be purposeful we need to
have a clear True North a true sense of
the game of the impossible that dictates
uh the direction of of of everything
that we do um so I think if
organizations are very clear uh in doing
that I think that sends a strong signal
to our teams you know our vica miles
Tolman was just preaching um two weeks
ago on the topic of how to be a more
effective leader for genzies and you
know there's research to show that
actually
genzies some people you know we we we
might brand the genzies as the snowflake
generation but you know sometimes I feel
that's a bit of an unfair um broad
stroke on them contrary to that kind of
label of genes you know he pointed out
that actually jenz interestingly enough
they're looking for leaders who are bold
but there's a distinction between being
bold and being Brash you know because to
be bold is not necessarily to be the
most boisterous person in the room
because sometimes that might rub them
off the wrong way as well but boldness
simply means being bold or rather having
a conv ition a very strong conviction
about whatever it is that you are trying
to achieve in your organization um in
your team and actually that's what they
want so if we are going to if we are
able to create an environment where we
are thinking very intentionally to
remove things that are unnecessary and
to orient everything towards a true
north actually that is really good for
the next p in this in this this
conversation of future proofing which is
actually future proofing how we build up
how do we look after our our people yeah
yeah absolutely you're right I mean
that's that's another Mega Trend as you
say one Mega trend is the young people
are looking for Meaningful jobs not
just doing the task at hand they really
so we have asked those fundamental
questions in pandu ourselves and how do
we do this and we decided to innovate
when we started to innovate we ask the
question which are the areas that we
believe are really meaningful to the
people
giving them a sense of ownership of the
company so we then concluded why don't
we consider giving them stocks in the
company but then there were a lot of
issues we then found out a way to do it
let's let's not give them stocks but we
give them virtual Equity so we invented
this thing called virtual Equity units
Vu if someone resign you don't have to
worry about what do you do with the
shares do you sell it and all sorts of
legal question so the vus so everybody
in the company owned equity in the
company the senior ones have more the
junior ones have less so every quarter
we announce our result when we announce
the result so all of the staff all the
companies all the people that there they
have dividends based on the equity that
they shared to them when you started to
do this it gave a sense of ownership
tremendous ownership for them and so and
because they own the company in that
sense if they spend a lot of money on it
what it does is that it will reduce the
profit and less dividend so they are
very conscious about cost control
managing cost and then in the past a lot
of people are complaining incessantly
about double hting on many projects but
they are putting the brakes on
recruiting Men new staff because they're
saying if we have more staff then the
more Equity units will be spreaded out
and then the dividends will be less so
quite a number of them are volunteering
for double heading on projects they can
do so our our productivity has really
increase and so uh we completely have
gone uh almost virtually uh a virtual
team we don't I don't have an office nor
do you have an office we all work
virtually uh virtual but we kept only
the meeting rooms for people to come
together and check out and what's up you
for some meetings but nonetheless that's
what people people really want they want
the quality time and we told them quite
clearly as long as you do the task at
hand don't feel guilty going to the
shopping mall during the day don't feel
guilty going to see a movie during the
day as long as you do your task that's
given for the week but requires a
fundamental rejigging of the work when
we started to do this and I kind of
think that the staff really like it and
the other thing that we did was because
in consultancy they're very high
resignation rate and people can't stand
there for too long if I look at the data
in McKenzie bcgs and all the other
consulting firm about a third of their
people 30% attrition annually so what do
we do in staff appraisal we ask our our
our top our people in the team when do
you intend to leave
pandu as part of the planning so we say
and what where do you want to go what
kind of work do you want to go so if the
person say I want after this two years
down the road I think I'm going to leave
for Mandu I want to work in a bank so
what do we do if we have a project
between now and then that is relating to
a bank we put that person to be assigned
to that project because then he or she
will learn the experience about the bank
and so this idea of being very Frank we
also say if you leave us we bless you
for leaving us we don't take it against
you but when you are tired of what
you're doing there and if you're good
enough you have a return ticket yeah in
fact we welcome many of them do return
so again back to the point you say
meaningful adjust in innovate your HR
policies to suit the trends yeah I agree
that helps in so many levels because on
the one hand I mean taking that example
so you know let let's say very upfront
someone has told us that this is what
they're passionate about this is what we
do and we say okay actually well you
know we have we we we'll try to find
avenues for for you to be exposed to
that in the meantime even while you're
seeing out your tenure here at uh you
know whether it's at pandu Associates or
whether it's at htbb wherever it is so
that's good because it gives them that
exposure it also shows that leadership
is committed to actually also trying to
create a working environment that um
that fits with my my my personal goals
as well so that's very good now the next
thing is let's say at the end of it they
think okay well i' I've had a taste for
like you said maybe I've had a taste for
for the banking sector financial sector
maybe I want to go in I want I want to
go there um instead then it's great
because you know number one they either
because they had such a great experience
at P Associates maybe once they've once
they've had their season there they they
either come back but then the other
thing is these same people might go on
to become uh very valuable clients as
well yeah absolutely you definitely want
to have allies like that vouching for
you because they can always say well you
know I have nothing but good things to
say about this this organ ization this
leadership because they were very very
secure about being able to release me
and I think that's something that we try
to do a lot of um at htbb and and this
is very much part of the DNA uh that was
instilled from the basically from the
head church so we are part of a Global
Network of churches um so stemming from
a church called Holy Trinity Brompton in
the UK and one of the things that they
always talk about is this idea of
give away your best you know in the same
way that as Christians we aim to give
away our best to God you know so that's
where that's where the whole thinking of
the tithe comes in you know you you get
your you get your your income and then
the first thing that you do is you give
away um you know most people would say
10% but whatever that percentage is you
give that you give that to God so it's
the same thing with thinking about um
human resource you know who are the best
people that we can be okay um and not
even just being okay but actually
intentionally think about how these
people can then be given away and and to
be released and I think it might sound a
little counterintuitive because you
think what shouldn't I want to keep my
best people um yeah I mean sure that's
that's great keep your best but I mean
one one issue with that is that your
best might probably end up Plateau at
some point if they're in the same
environment for too
long but also I think when we have this
if if we have this default thinking that
everyone in our team is always going to
be with us then it's not going to make
us as intentional about really
reflecting and then documenting our
processes you know you talked about as
Leaders we need to be able to reflect
and it's so important to do that because
actually when we when we know we're in
an environment where we're encouraging
people to go and do the things that they
want to do then it forces us to think
okay whatever we are doing now how can
we make sure that these things these
steps are documented so that ultimately
the ability to continue to grow does not
solely rely on one person but that
ultimately whoever is in there both you
as a leader but also that person who's
handling that piece of
work think intentionally about how do we
create how do we basically make all of
ourselves redundant so that if you have
other dreams that you'd like to pursue
you can go ahead and do that and not
feel bad because you've done your part
to not only do the work but to also look
out for other people that you can raise
other people who can who you can bring
along with you to do the same to do the
same thing um that's very much embedded
in our in our week to week as well
because whenever we do our weekly
check-ins with people then one of the
set questions that we ask is who do you
think is emerging right now and this is
not a question that's limited to people
in leadership but it's a question we ask
even the most Junior people sure you
know because it starts to get them to
think about yeah actually who is
emerging who can who can I invest in so
you create this this this Loop if you
like you know and so when people leave
there isn't a sense that you where you
feel Ah that's a real loss to the I mean
of course you you you miss having them
around but you you can you can allow
people to leave and feel happy for them
in the things that they are pursuing
knowing that they have also actually
left a legacy you talked about Legacy
goals um a couple of weeks ago you know
so how can we I think have a mindset of
creating and leaving a legacy whether
it's through processes whether it's
through mindset in the places that we
work I can tell you that pandu is a
small company small firm but we really
are at a forer of trying to do this and
the reason why I said that is because
people don't stay in consultancy for
more than I mean for a very long time
yeah I mean that's not even just limited
to people would say oh it's a genz or a
millennial phenomenon I mean that just
always been the case because because of
the fact that you know when they have
kids the ladies for example they want to
stay home they don't really want to work
so they take men to for that matter a
lot more very Hands-On dads nowaday yeah
and not not wanting to travel as well
and there's a time in in life that you
want to travel and you but there's a
point in life you see I don't want to
travel I want accidentally job and so
because of that the nature of the Beast
is that we have to constantly deal with
that question that we lose our best
talent every year a third of our people
leave 30% resignation is 30% attrition
in 3 years you have a complete change
out of the company how do you make sure
the DNA continues you document the way
in which of what people work the methods
how they do it and I I've seen it time
and again I've seen when good people
live good people come so if you create
an organization and work environment
that is rewarding rewarding for people
their love is that they have fun they
grow and they develop when they leave
the world gets around and other good
people come too it's like a revolving
door exactly your best people leave some
of the best people come in in this world
I'm totally amazed when I look at the
new talents coming in when I find now
today I watch
today a lot more of the young people are
smarter than the previous young people
I've seen because I think the world
today has exposed them to so much the
exposure they have today if you just
look everything hell equal cist parab as
The Economist always say ien find
everything had equal a lot of the new
people they have a lot of exposure and a
lot of critical thinking the ones that
come to us I wouldn't say that globally
for all countries because I can see it
because we are attracting some top
talents some of the best people come
when we talk to them to your point a lot
of them come because they said oh some
of the things you guys do are meaningful
I really want to come there and learn
and I want to contribute and
particularly when we tell them that we
do work in countries like Rwanda and
Tanzania and we went to Oman in Saudi
doing all sort of interesting stuff they
really want to do that and so if we say
we have a project on poverty eradication
in a country some of them really like it
some we say that we're doing work on
education you can see a lot of hands are
put up there because they really want to
make an impact and so I can see our
revolving though our best people live
and we bless them yeah some of our best
people coming in as well yeah and so I'm
I'm not at all perturbed by that Trend
we embrace it and we welcome it and we
Revel in it yeah and many even in the
Bible the model that we often see at
work um Jesus did this it was how it was
essentially how the early church was
formed and it was through a model of
multiplication absolutely addition it
wasn't about trying to build one Central
Church with the largest congregation but
it was about building up many many of
these small groups of people Jesus only
had his 12 disciples those 12 went on to
form other small groups Sometimes some
of them like you know for example you
see Paul largely only really discipling
this one fellow called Timothy I'm sure
there were other people as well but in
terms of one person that he truly
invested time in it was just it really
just seemed to be Paul and this young
guy Timothy but look at impact that that
had by focusing on multiplication and
even as we were talking about that I
mean for me to be honest I
have right up until this conversation
today have still looked at
multiplication only within your own
context so if I am applying a model of
multiplication in our church context
then okay how do we multiply in terms of
building up our best talent sending them
away to plant another church plant under
our Network multiplying like that but
actually multiplication applies even if
this person leaves the network entirely
maybe if this person even goes on to go
you know to go back to to corporate work
um you know we talk about Christians
changing the world and sometimes you
know when people say that we can make a
difference by the Holy Spirit we can
change the world sometimes even to me I
might think that seems a little
farfetched I can't quite imagine it but
actually as we're speaking I realize
even if people leave not even your
organization but leave the industry um
completely
that's still a process of multiplication
because if they go to let's say another
industry they've essentially not just
left their own legacy here uh in our
current place for other people to then
continue to to build from but what they
would also be doing essentially is if
we've got a strong enough DNA in culture
they'd be bringing that DNA in culture
from here and bringing it to a
completely different sector which we
might not have been able to reach or
speak to merely through talking to them
you know so if we want to talk about
changing the world actually what it
probably takes is for many people to be
able to disperse into different corners
of the world different Industries and
then begin to make that same change from
within and then ultimately that is where
that is actually how we see the world
change when more and more people in
different fields of influence begin to
embody that same culture and DNA I think
that is how we can start to slowly see
um a world form as we would as we would
like it to happen you're absolutely
right your your mom and I were reading
Bible in one year a few days ago and we
were reading acts and in Acts they refer
to Paul he made reference to Paul in the
multipli fication he
spent two years in he in in in the Bible
referring to he spent two years and it's
quoted that during the period of the two
years all the Jews and all the Greeks
the word is all all the Jews and and all
the Greeks in the province of Asia have
heard the word of God obviously you know
that Paul did not go through the entire
place it was through multipli
multiplication that people have heard it
and they spread it that's how the word
was spread around in the province of
Asia that's put in they spent a lot of
time doing that it's incredible two
years he was able to do that through
multiplication and I'm totally convinced
that if you can then find a way how to
do that in in in the Christian Community
the evangelism will be really a
geometric progression the
world changing very fast we all have to
Future proof our organization countries
must future proof while looking at
Trends Mega Trends and the big trends in
the present tool and how they avoid but
the key here is asking the question
which
countes which organization and which
businesses are on the Forefront the
frontier I call it the frontier of
innovation in this area and learn from
them and you don't have to reinvent the
wheel you have to sit there and look at
them one of the big trends to aging
population all countries are going
through a massive aging population and
that means people live a lot longer
there's a lot of things that has to
change for organization and companies
that in the health care business if the
hospital business a lot of what you
intend to do and as we look at the
demographic change agging population
also we realize that a lot more of the
diseases are noncommunicable diseases
lifestyle diseases high incidence
diabetes hypertensions and all of these
and so again if you are in the healthare
business you have to take stock of all
these things and
nowadays the thing on AI as well
you know digital how do you make sure
that the the the best doctors don't
necessarily to sit in your hospital so
if the
basic tests are being done blood tests
are being done and x-rays are being done
there you can get all the specialist
doctors from elsewhere to provide the
input The Specialist input so you don't
really need them all together physically
sitting in one hospital so a lot of
innovation has to be made in that area
I'm totally convinced and today Leon you
can order anything on grab they arrive
with your doorstep why is it that we
can't do that same thing and and for
hospitals today surely there must be a
better way in which to say that you are
booked to see that doctor the estimate
is there are three people before you and
it will take this amount of time so you
don't have to spend an hour your exact
time to to come to the hospital I mean
there's things like that even parking in
area i' say you don't have to go there
and queue up to pay today Mobile payment
is there why do you have to carry all
your and queue up to make the payment I
think even dispensing the medicine at
the pharmacist has to be radically
changed I can tell you there will be
somebody that come with a totally
radical Innovation that will reinvent
the entire Hospital business in this
person who is on the frontier whichever
they are they're going to be the
Champion as today the whole book
business has been controlled entirely by
by Amazon because the guy decided to be
on the frontier at the time or
e-commerce he figured out that he was
going to be the num Uno he didn't stop
there so when he figured out that he
could sell books online then he could
sell anything online and that's why
Amazon is such a huge company and so
successful today all the listeners out
there watch it there will be one fine
day one company will take the center
stage on completely renovating
innovating on the on Healthcare and that
they will become like the next Amazon
well we do we do also have a
non-consulting arm called Prince account
Nishan if you're listening maybe maybe
you can have a crack too but I'm
honestly there are so many ways it's
another Trend that that it's coming out
today it's a very very big Trend and
that trend is to do with uh
electric vehicles and that's a big Trend
as well because of climate change and so
I think in the area of climate change
there is a lot that can be done in this
area
fundamental the the I mean the
opportunities are all there because the
world has to move in that direction and
the companies that succeed big time and
they can find a way how to navigate this
energy transition they're going to have
a Quil of time because those are Mega
Trends you know that's climate change
Trends are because today a lot of people
making excuses why it cannot be done but
the folks that are highly Innovative in
figuring out how to do it they're the
ones who will
succeed I think that's a great place to
end today's episode thank you all for
listening to yet another episode of the
game of impossible podcast we look
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