Social Affective Neuroscience of Musical Rhythm - Dr. Rie Asano CIMTR Lecture 2024
Summary
TLDRDr. Ria Asano presents on the social affective neuroscience of musical rhythm, exploring how music intertwines social and emotional components, with rhythm playing a key role in movement and emotional contagion. She delves into hierarchical and social cognition in music, discussing the impact of rhythmic structures on emotional responses and social interaction. The lecture also touches on the use of hyperscanning in social neuroscience research, the importance of ecological validity in studying music's social effects, and the integration of computational and phenomenological perspectives on the mind.
Takeaways
- 🎓 Dr. Rano is presenting on the social affective Neuroscience of musical rhythm, a topic that intersects her background in language, music, and cognitive science.
- 🎵 The social and affective components of music are intertwined and inseparable, with emotional contagion being a key aspect of musical experiences.
- 💃 Music can be seen as movement-based emotional engagement, with rhythm playing a significant role in engaging motor systems of the brain and inducing group movement.
- 🎶 Hierarchical cognition and social cognition are linked through the effect of musical rhythm, with hierarchical metrical structures influencing emotional responses.
- 👀 Expectancy and prediction error are important mechanisms in the perception of rhythm, with syncopation being a key example of how musical rhythm can create tension and relaxation.
- 🤝 Entrainment is a central mechanism for rhythmic interaction, both within individuals and between individuals in social settings.
- 🧠 Hyperscanning is a key method in social Neuroscience research, allowing for the simultaneous measurement of multiple brains' activity, which is used to study interpersonal synchrony in musical contexts.
- 🌐 The integration of different brain, body imaging, and behavioral methods is crucial for studying musical rhythm and effect, capturing the multidimensionality of responses during social interaction.
- 🏞 The ecological validity of research is a central challenge for social affective Neuroscience, with the need to develop experimental settings that reflect naturalistic social interactions.
- 🔄 A three-stage cycle framework integrating classical laboratory, naturalistic laboratory, and real-life research is suggested for advancing understanding in the field.
- 🎨 The Mind-Body problem is still relevant, but the talk also introduces the Mind-Mind problem, highlighting the need to consider both the computational and phenomenological aspects of the mind in the study of musical rhythm.
Q & A
What is the main topic of Dr. Ria Asano's presentation?
-Dr. Ria Asano's presentation focuses on the social affective neuroscience of musical rhythm.
What are the five research areas of the Cambrid Institute for Music Therapy Research?
-The five research areas are aging and dementia, neuroscience of music therapy, neurorehabilitation and stroke, mental health, and children, young people, and families.
What degrees does Dr. Ria Asano hold and from which institutions?
-Dr. Ria Asano holds a bachelor's degree in foreign study and linguistics from a university in Japan and a master's degree in musicology, German linguistics, and phonetics from the University of Cologne in Germany. She also completed her PhD at the University of Cologne.
What is the relationship between social and affective components in music according to Dr. Asano?
-Dr. Asano explains that social and affective components in music are intertwined and cannot be separated. Music can cause emotional contagion and create a feeling of social and emotional connection between individuals.
How does musical rhythm engage the brain's motor systems?
-Listening to musical rhythm engages the motor systems of the brain, including cortical structures such as the premotor cortex, supplementary and primary motor areas, as well as subcortical structures like the basal ganglia and cerebellum.
What is syncopation and how does it affect listeners?
-Syncopation involves accentuating a metrically weak beat instead of a strong one, leading to prediction errors and a pleasurable drive towards body movement, known as groove.
What is entrainment and how does it relate to social interactions in music?
-Entrainment is the process by which independent rhythmic systems interact and synchronize with each other. In music, this occurs when people make music or dance together, promoting prosocial effects through interpersonal synchrony.
How does the hierarchical metrical structure of music affect tension and relaxation patterns?
-The hierarchical metrical structure, which consists of regular patterns of strong and weak beats, affects tension and relaxation patterns in music. Expectancy violations, such as syncopation, can create tension, while alignment with the expected beats causes relaxation.
What is the significance of hyperscanning in social neuroscience research?
-Hyperscanning allows researchers to measure brain activity in multiple individuals simultaneously, providing insights into synchrony of brain activities within and between interacting individuals. It is used to study interpersonal synchrony and coordination in social neuroscience of music.
Why is ecological validity important in social affective neuroscience research?
-Ecological validity is crucial because social and emotional components of cognition cannot be isolated from real-life contexts. Research settings that closely resemble real-life situations provide more accurate insights into how people experience and interact with music in social settings.
Outlines
🎓 Introduction to Social Neuroscience of Musical Rhythm
The lecture begins with an introduction to the topic of social neuroscience, focusing on the effects of musical rhythm. Dr. Riano is introduced as the presenter, and Dr. Smof provides background on the Cambridge Institute for Music Therapy Research, highlighting its establishment in 2017 and its five research areas. Dr. Riano's academic background is outlined, including her work in comparative biomusicology and her current research interests in the social affective neuroscience of musical rhythm. The talk's outline is presented, which includes theoretical research, methods, and the broader implications for computational and phenomenological mind perspectives.
🎵 The Interplay of Social and Affective Components in Music
This paragraph delves into the intricate relationship between social and affective components in music, emphasizing that they cannot be separated. Examples such as emotional contagion, joint music-making, and attachment-related effects are given to illustrate the social and emotional connections music can create. The role of movement and musical rhythm in emotional engagement is highlighted, with the motor system's involvement in listening to rhythm and the potential for rhythm to mediate emotional alignment between individuals through movement synchronization.
🎶 Hierarchical and Social Cognition in Musical Rhythm
The discussion shifts to the hierarchical and social cognition aspects of musical rhythm. The hierarchical metrical structure of music and its impact on rhythmic interpretation are explained. The paragraph provides examples of how different hierarchical structures can lead to varied interpretations of the same rhythmic sequence, affecting the tension and relaxation patterns experienced by listeners. The role of expectancy and prediction error in generating emotional responses such as groove is explored, with syncopation as a key example of manipulating predictive processing in rhythm.
🤝 Entrainment and Social Interaction in Musical Rhythm
Entrainment, the process of rhythmic synchronization between individuals, is introduced as a central mechanism linking the social and affective dimensions of musical rhythm. The paragraph explains how entrainment can promote pro-social effects and align emotional states between individuals through movement synchronization. The potential of entrainment as a mechanism that connects social and hierarchical aspects of musical rhythm is discussed, highlighting its occurrence at various levels of hierarchical metrical structure.
🧠 Hyperscanning and Social Neuroscience of Music
The paragraph introduces hyperscanning, a technique used in social neuroscience to measure the brain activity of multiple individuals simultaneously. It discusses the application of hyperscanning in studying interpersonal synchrony and coordination in the context of music. The importance of integrating different methods, including brain, body imaging, and behavioral measures, is emphasized to capture the multi-dimensionality and dynamics of affective responses during rhythmic social interaction.
🌳 Ecological Validity in Social Affective Neuroscience
The importance of ecological validity in research is highlighted, discussing the need for experimental settings that reflect real-life social and emotional contexts. The limitations of traditional laboratory settings are critiqued for their lack of real-life context, and the benefits of naturalistic and real-life research approaches are explored. A framework integrating classical laboratory, naturalistic laboratory, and real-life research is suggested to inform each other and advance understanding in a complementary manner.
🎼 The Mind-Mind Problem and Situated Cognition in Music
The talk concludes with a discussion on the 'Mind-Mind problem,' which addresses the relationship between mental phenomena and physical phenomena in the context of social affective neuroscience of musical rhythm. The computational mind, focused on information processing, and the phenomenological mind, concerned with personal experience, are contrasted. The limitations of the information processing approach are acknowledged, and the situated cognition approach, which emphasizes the brain-body-environment interaction, is introduced as a more holistic perspective for understanding musical rhythm's effects.
🔄 Linking Perspectives on Musical Rhythm and Social Interaction
The final paragraph synthesizes the discussion by proposing potential linking hypotheses between different cognitive approaches to musical rhythm and social interaction. It suggests that entrainment could be a mechanism that connects rhythmic effects and social interaction across different theoretical perspectives. The importance of integrating music theoretical research, empirical laboratory research, and real-life research, such as in music therapy, is emphasized to gain a comprehensive understanding of the dynamics involved.
🤔 Open Discussion on Music Therapy and Rhythmic Interaction
The script concludes with an open discussion on the integration of real-life and laboratory research, particularly in the context of music therapy. The potential for studying expectancy violation, a key concept in music therapy, in a laboratory setting is suggested. The role of entrainment in shared emotional experiences and its relevance to music therapy is highlighted, with a call for more research in this area.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Social Affective Neuroscience
💡Musical Rhythm
💡Hierarchical Cognition
💡Social Cognition
💡Emotional Contagion
💡Syncopation
💡Groove
💡Entrainment
💡Hierarchical Metrical Structure
💡Ecological Validity
💡Mobile Brain-Body Imaging (MOBI)
Highlights
Introduction of Dr. Rano's lecture on the social affective Neuroscience of musical rhythm.
Dr. Smof provides background on the Cambridge Institute for Music Therapy Research and its five research areas.
Dr. Rano's academic journey from Linguistics to Musicology and her PhD in comparative biomusicology.
The intertwining of social and affective components in music, emphasizing emotional contagion and attachment effects.
The role of movement and musical rhythm in emotional engagement and social interaction.
Hierarchical cognition and social cognition's connection through the affective neuroscience of musical rhythm.
Explanation of hierarchical metrical structure in music and its impact on rhythmic interpretation.
Demonstration of how different hierarchical structures can alter the perception of rhythm.
The concept of syncopation and its effect on creating prediction errors and groove in music.
Entrainment as a central mechanism for rhythmic interaction and its relation to positive social effects.
Hyperscanning technique's role in studying synchrony of brain activity in social neuroscience.
Importance of integrating brain, body, and behavioral methods for a comprehensive study of musical rhythm and affect.
Discussion on ecological validity in social affective neuroscience and the need for real-life experimental settings.
The three-stage cycle framework integrating classical laboratory, naturalistic laboratory, and real-life research.
Potential of music research to advance real-life approaches due to the continuum of ecological interaction in music.
The Mind-Body problem and the extension to the Mind-Mind problem in the context of social affective neuroscience of music.
Dr. Rano's closing thoughts on integrating music theoretical research, empirical research, and real-life research for a comprehensive understanding.
Transcripts
hello everyone welcome to today's
lecture we will have Riano Dr Riano
presenting to us today presenting about
social effective Neuroscience of musical
Rhythm we'll put in the link to sign up
for our newsletter in the chat and you
will be up to date for any upcoming
lectures like that so I am very proud to
be introducing Dr Rano and but first I
want to pass it over to Dr smof a senior
fellow researcher here at Sim who's
going to give a bit more
background yes hello and welcome
everybody uh from me and thanks for
joining uh tonight at this uh on this
bank holiday in the UK I'm clevens smov
I'm a senior research fellow here at our
cambrid Institute for music therapy
research and um our Institute was
founded in 2017 and we currently have I
think 13 staff members working on
different different research projects uh
which fall into our five research areas
which are at the aging and dementia
Neuroscience of music therapy neuro
Rehabilitation and stroke mental health
children young people and families and
we also have a very active PhD student
community so if you're interested in
pursuing a PhD in music therapy please
do get in touch with
us and yeah tonight it is my pleasure to
welcome and introduce my former
colleague and co-author Dr Ria asano who
is currently with the max Blan Institute
for empirical Aesthetics in Frankfurt
Germany and also with the advanced
comprehensive research organization at
uh Teo University
Japan and uh Rio R earned a bachelor
degree in foreign study and Linguistics
in Japan and then completed a master's
degree in musicology uh German
Linguistics and phonetics at the
University of of cologne in
Germany and there is also where she did
her PhD which was about principled
explanations in comparative
biomusicology and for that she
introduced a comparative framework
investigating the relationship between
language and music from cognitive
science and biological
perspectives and uh Ria has many
research interests uh for example syntax
in language music and action or the
relationship between linguistic
syntactic processing and musical Rhythm
and tonight she will give a presentation
about one of our more recent I'd say uh
research interests uh which are the
social effective Neuroscience of musical
Rhythm to which I'm very much looking
forward to so without further Ado um my
pleasure to hand over to you
Ria thank you very much then um I will
share my
screen uh this
one okay can you see the presentation
yeah
great okay um thank you very much for
inviting me to this lecture series um
today I will give you an overview of the
social affective Neuroscience of musical
Rhythm and usually I'm actually language
and music person uh but today as Clemens
uh said right now I will talk about uh
my relatively new interest uh in the
research um yeah so social effective
Neuroscience of musical Rhythm and I
hope you find some aspects which are
interesting for music therapy research
and
practice and this is the outline of my
talk um in today's talk I will first
introduce uh music theoretical research
on hierarchical and social component of
musical Rhythm then um I will give a
quick overview of the methods relevant
for the social affective Neuroscience of
musical Rhythm and introduce the
framework uh finally I will uh discuss a
big picture behind the social affective
Neuroscience of musical Rhythm
concerning computational mind and
phenomenological
mind okay let me begin with the
theoretical
research and first of all it is
important to note that social and
affective components are intertwined in
music and cannot be
separated and one example is emotional
contagion caused by music as you may
know from your experience um of a
concert emotion can be transmitted from
the performers to uh the listeners also
joint music making is a social affective
medium uh in which emotional contagion
between co-performers plays a crucial
role another example is attachment
related effect um evoked by music um
attachment created effect is a feeling
of socially and emotionally linked to
someone else so similar to grooming or
um nursing of Offspring music can
emotionally connect
individual so the tight link between
social and affective components of music
has kept being emphasized over the
decades but the question is um how do
music or features affect and social
interaction relate to each other
um to tackle this uh issue one important
com component linking emotional and
social aspect of music is movement
because music can be seen as a movement
based emotional
engagement and in this context musical
Rhythm plays the most significant role
because of its tight Ling to
movement for example just listening to
musical Rhythm engages motor systems of
the brain uh this include cortical
structures such as premotor cortex U
supplementary and prary motor area as
well as uh subcortical structur such as
basa gangria and
cerebelum um myal Rhythm also uh induces
Group which is a pleasurable drive
toward body
movement and the motor system of the
brain is strongly engaged or modulated
when listening to High group
music also Musical M can mediate
alignment of emotional states between
individuals via movement synchronization
in a group and in a caregiver um child
diet so um the study of the social
acceptive component of musical Rhythm
Can Shed light on the link between
musical features effect and social
interaction because uh music is both
complex hierarchical structured sequence
and social practice
uh musical rhythm is investigated from
the perspective of hierarchical
cognition and social
cognition here hierarchical cognition
deals with hierarchical processing of
temporal sequence within the individual
while social cognition concerns um
social interaction between
individuals well those two domains of
musical Rhythm seem very different from
each other but they have an important
commonality and her charism structure of
music and jointly coordinated rhythmic
actions in music making both R to affect
including emotion mood Pro sociality
approach avoidance motivation and
pattern of tension and
relaxation so now uh let me discuss how
hierarchical and social aspects of
musical Rhythm relate to each other via
effect the most uh basic level of hker
rythmic structure in music is
hierarchical metrical structure which
represents a regular pattern of strong
and weak Beats at different hierarchical
levels okay um let's listen to this very
simple
[Music]
example okay um those dots uh you can
see here um represents the metrical
structure of this simple rhythmic
sequence first uh the beats are assigned
at the first level and here the interbit
interval corresponds to the onset of the
shortest notes here are eight notes in
this case um then um those beats are
grouped together and the strongest beat
of each group is projected onto the
higher level one of those levels
represents the beat to which we clap our
hands so the interpretation of rythmic
sequence in music depends on um the
underlying hierarchical
representation let me introduce another
example to strengthen this idea please
listen to this example and try to clap
your hands at regular
intervals I hope you did it um okay so
this was an some except of Moz Piano
Sonata number
331 in a terrible Med quality I'm sorry
for this um well I guess that most of
you have clapped your hands like this or
maybe
[Music]
faster okay I took a slow but maybe you
had double double Tempo uh it's also
possible um but this is also a possible
[Music]
interpretation I don't know if some of
you had this interpretation uh it sounds
funny but uh it's also possible
interpretation oops sorry um those two
interpretation are based on two
different hierarchical structures um as
you can see here um so the same rhythmic
sequence can be interpreted differently
according to the underlying Hier
structures and those two interpretations
um are based on the same musical
sequence but they feel very differently
right um this is because strong beats
correspond to the note onsets in the
first representation as first
interpretation sorry while there are
some strong um beads on the empty slot
in the second
interpretation um okay those uh points
where the strong beats do not correspond
um to the onset cause tension like
here and then the next place where the
strong beats correspond to the note
onset called Su
relaxation so the tangent relaxation
patterns of those two interpretations um
are different let's listen to those two
interpretations once more with this
[Music]
graph so all clicks corresponded to a
note onsets
[Music]
here there were some um clicks that were
uh not on the um note on sets so there
was some tension I hope now it is clear
when I say that the interpretation of a
rhythmic sequence in music depends on
the underlying H representation I also
hope that it uh that now it is clear um
how the har metrical structure relates
to tangent relaxation pattern which is
one component of
effect so now uh what is uh the
mechanism underlying the generation of
tangent relaxation patterns based on um
Hier chometric
structures here expectancy is a
candidate mechanism because the
manipulation of expectancy is known to
uh leads to effective responses such as
Groove in the current music cognition
research um depending on your
theoretical approach this issue is also
discussed in terms of predictive
processing in the domain of Rhythm
syncopation involves the manipulation of
predictive processing and is one
phenomenal known as causing Groove and
syncopation is generated by an
accentuation of a metrically weak beat
instead of a strong beat as you can see
here uh because those two nodes are tied
the note onset occurs on the weak
beat instead of on the strong
beat because we usually expect that an
accentuation occurs on a strong beit and
accentuation of a weak bit leads to a
prediction error also syncopation occurs
um in different degrees and can lead to
different degrees of prediction error
Okay let's listen to this example
sequence first
the degrees of syncopation are
determined by the
syncopation index based on her
geometrical structure uh first of all um
the strength of the synop syncopated
rhythm is calculated as the weight of R
this one minus the weight of n so this
one so the syncopation in index of the
rthm a is 3 minus 2 =
1 and and the syncopation index of the
Rhythm C is
3- 1 = 2 this means that the Rhythm a is
less syncopated than the RM
C and let's listen to this example once
again
maybe you notice that the surprisal
effect is a bit larger in the Rhythm C
than a and also the syncopation index of
the RM two rym B is minus two so this
means that the rym B is not
syncopated Okay let's listen to some
other examples
[Music]
[Music]
[Music]
uh I hope you noticed that the rism get
more and more unexpected uh this is
because the syncopation index of the
Rhythm uh
increased and several studies show that
there is an inverted use shaped
relationship between different degrees
of syncopation and positive effective
measur such as Groove uh middle degrees
of syncopation were most associated with
positive effect while the lowest and
highest um extremes of syncopation
degree um show the lowest rating of
positive effect um middle degree of
syncopation are also associated with the
brain networks linked to bit perception
and entainment reward as well as uh
prediction um so maybe you wanted to
move to The rhythms in the middle of the
exam examples I saw some of you did uh
more than to The rhythms at the
beginning of uh or the
end
okay so far um research on Groove uh
mainly focused on the relationship
between musical structure and affective
responses within an
individual uh but group also had social
component for example um Groove
generated by syncopation affords active
participation uh because it invites you
to fill in the prediction Gap um through
your own body movements so this is the
movement that you wanted to do um during
listening to this middle syncopation
Rhythm uh so this is why you um right
this is also why you would like to uh
moving along um groovy
music
okay okay so far uh we saw how
hierarchical structure of rism can
relate to effect and positive uh
possibly link to social interaction via
Groove um now let me quickly introduce
um how social aspect of Rhythm can
relate to effect and possibly to um
hierarchical aspect
here um entrainment is a central
mechanism entrainment is the process by
which um independent rhythmical systems
interact with each
other and can be observed uh in several
biological physical and social context
in the context of physics an example of
entrainment is this
um here independent rant systems U
metronomes in this case interacted with
each other and
synchronized um in the context of Music
enterment occurs in making music or
dancing together in a group and here
each individual is is a rhythmic system
and enterment happens through an
interaction between individuals this
kind of enterment is called uh is called
social
entrainment several experimental studies
shows that being in synchrony with a
group induces positive effect for
example interpersonal synchrony via
social entainment promotes pro-social
effect this can be Ed by aligning
representations of self and
other
synchronization finally entainment
occurs at all levels of high chometric
structure um taking the mo pianos
example um if you have clapped your hand
faster than my example was then you have
entrained to the lower level of har
metrical structure so entrainment is a
potential mechanism that links social
and heal component of musical
Rhythm so um to conclude the theoretical
part of this talk um hierarchical
cognition and social cognition are
linked via effect from a perspective of
hierarchical cognition interpretation of
musical Rhythm depends on underlying
hierarchical metrical structure based on
hierarchical metrical structure several
degrees of prediction error can be
created as we saw it with the example of
syncopation the degree of prediction
error is associated with positive effect
such as Groove and group can act as an
interface between hierarchical and
social component of musical Rhythm
because uh of its participatory
nature from a perspective of social
cognition entainment is a central
mechanism for um inter individual
rhythmic interaction enterment is also
associated with positive effect and
enterment can act as an interface
between social and hierarchical
component because it can happen at all
levels of hierarchical metrical
structure so um now let me continue with
experimental research on rmic social
interaction uh which continues making
remarkable progress um here I will give
you an overview of methods and current
discussions um one method which plays a
central role for social Neuroscience
research is
hyperscanning and the hyperscanning
technique allows researchers um to
measure activity of multiple brains
simultaneously as you can see
here with this technique for example um
it is possible to study synchrony of
brain activity activities within and
between interacting individuals
hyperscanning is also used in Social
Neuroscience of music to study
interpersonal synchrony and
coordination but experimental research
on rhythmic social interaction often um
go separate ways from emotion research
so approaches underlying both aspects in
an experimental paradigms are very
rare but good news is that there is
already some effort to investigate
effective component in social
interaction of course uh we need
significantly more uh but at least there
is some
effort example includes research on
romantic kissing interpersonal touch
music therapeutic interaction music
Ensemble performance and music listening
of concert audience um those studies uh
show that there is a higher degree of
synchrony in the brain rhythms of two or
more people during social effective
setting in addition to the development
development of hypers scanic paradigms
um it is important to integrate
different brain body Imaging and
behavioral methods to study Musical rism
and effect and by integrating the
measures of the brain and the body we
can investigate the brain as one part of
the body generating behaviors situated
in the environment and interacting with
others also the combination of um neural
physiological and behavioral measures is
important to capture multiple
dimensionalities and dynamics of
effective responses during rhythmic
social interaction in in their full
complexity examples of different body
Imaging and behavioral methods are
physiological measures um such as heart
rate computational emotion recognition
using facial cues computational um
analysis of um uh emotion expression
based on body posture and
gesture and continuous measurement of
self-reported emotion
especially um mobile brain Imaging
called Mobi plays a central role for the
progress of um Empirical research in the
social affective Neuroscience of musical
Rhythm um in contrast to the
conventional Imaging Technologies um M
Technologies allow participants to uh
move freely so um they provide new
insights into the brain Dynamics in
actively behaving and interactive acting
agents um here you can see an example of
traditional laboratory setting as you
can see the participant is tied to
devices with a number of cables um and
they cannot freely move here on the
other hand you can see a mob setting um
as you can see um here the participants
carry devices but they are small and
portable so that the participants can
freely move uh when you see those two
pictures um maybe you could imagine that
experimental setting could affect
participants emotional
states so um I think that uh research on
effective component in rhythmic social
interaction could profit from the recent
technical progress in developing compact
lightweight Wireless and easy to wear
systems uh which facilitate research in
ecologically uh valid
settings ecological Varity is a now
frequently discussed topic and is often
associated with naturalistic stimul and
responses as well as generalizability of
the results to different context and uh
groups of people um okay um now let me
elaborate on the discussion about
ecological validity because this is a
central challenge for social affective
Neuroscience of musical
Rhythm real life approach um and
ecological validity are Central to
social affective miral sense of
Music um because um social emotional uh
component of cognition cannot be
isolated from the real life context as
you may know from your experience uh
listening music
alone with friends or in a concert make
a large
difference um so we need to develop
experimental setting for studying
effective component of musical rhythm in
naturalistic social
interaction especially because emotional
experiences and social behaviors a
dynamic context uh embedded tightly
linked to actions and based on
multimodal cues the traditional um
static and controlled experimental
paradigms without interpersonal
interaction face a serious limitation um
first classical laboratory setting often
Limits The participants uh in their
ability to act and uh interact with the
environment so um it suppresses
participant sense of agency and
embodiment second it mostly um does not
include contextual cues associated with
specific situations so that the richness
of the real life uh experiences is not
considered we cannot ignore those
limitations because um recently there is
evidence showing that social and
emotional processes differ in
experiments with and without real life
context or active social effective
engagement uh but I also would like uh
to add a note of caution um to this
discussion um although there is a
constantly increas increasing number of
real world experimental paradigms uh
claiming more naturalistic and
ecologically more valid experimental
settings naturalistic or ecologically
valid and not clearly
defined so the interpretation of those
terms is based on nonobjective judgments
and does not specify what perp inputs
behaviors and environmental contexts are
considered as real life
phenomena for example an experiment
experimental Paradigm using excepts from
the existing piece of music it's
sometimes regarded as more naturalistic
or ecologically valid
um of course this is true in terms of
the stimul in comparison with the
previously used um artificially create
it simple and Abstract stimul but those
experiments are still conducted in um a
laboratory setting often with some
movement restriction uh Which is far
from real life music listening
situations the use of uh more
naturalistic ecologically valid stimuli
is a necessary step toward and um toward
and the reasonable approximation to the
um real life approach but it is not
sufficient also the real life approach
is uh rather complementary to the
classical paradigms uh in laboratory
settings so the real life approach does
not fully replace the classical
laboratory approach this means that we
need a framework integrating the
classical laboratory and real life
approach and one um such framework
integrating the classical laboratory and
real life research was suggested by
matush and colleagues in 20 19 um this
is a three-stage cycle framework and
integrates uh classical laboratory
research naturalistic laboratory
research and fly naturalistic real life
research and those three strategies uh
build a cycle of um complementary and
interrelated research strategies
informing each
other the classical laboratory research
is based on um highly detailed
hypothesis High experimental control and
maximized statistical power and offers
insights into neurocognitive mechanisms
underlying perception and action and
this is only possible because cognition
is DEC composed and isolated into basic
experiment testable components and the
experimental designs are kept kept as
simple as possible
possible the naturalistic laboratory
research is um considered as an
intermediate point on the Continuum
between the maximal experimental control
and the maximum real life relevance um
it studies cognition in laboratory
settings resembling real real life
situations so it keeps a certain degree
of experimental control but uh considers
a part of the complexity of real life
situations
then um the real life research um mainly
refers to a research conducted in real
life situations outside the rber Tre
where no experimental control is
possible um those three approaches U
build a bir directional feedback cycle
um similar to the exploration
confirmation cycle um of the scientific
method as may you know um uh for example
um the prediction
on cognitive mechanism uh confirmed by
the classical laboratory research uh can
be tested by the naturalistic laboratory
research to validate if the results hold
under more complex situations stimul or
tasks emulating the real life
setting then um the presence and or
relevance of those neurocognitive
mechanisms in the real life situations
can be studied by the real life approach
which in turn generates new uh questions
that can be investigated by the
classical um or naturalistic laboratory
research and I think that this framework
um can be applied in music uh research
because music is a unique case offering
a Continuum of ecological
interaction as you can see here an
individual um can interact with a
recording a virtual
partner another person in Duo um
multiple people in The Ensemble and also
with
audience from a perspective of studying
uh effective uh component in rhythmic
social interaction the interaction with
um a recording is um the most
experimentally controlled and the least
ecologically valid condition while the
interaction uh with uh in a Duo or an
ensemble is the most ecologically valid
condition so music research has
potential to advance a real life
approach and also in music uh making at
least in the western culture performers
often interact based on the musical
score so there is some degree of control
uh even in ecological valid condition
this makes it possible to predict
performance effective responses in
ecologically uh valid rhythmic social
interaction as we saw in the theoretical
session um music theory predicts
effective responses based on the
expectancy
violations so um jointly performing
musical phrase um containing expectancy
violation such as syncopation could be
associated with shared effective
experience that can be potentially
captured by experimental
methods moreover um music provides an
opportunity to study effect in real life
Dynamic interactive settings for example
um musical improvisation in a duo or an
ensemble is a promising domain of
Investigation because it requires a
constant coordination between group
members I think that uh musical
improvisation is also uh very
interesting from a music therapeutic
perspective because improvisation is
similar to every they communicative
interactions and through musical
improvisation patient and therapist can
intuitively uh interact and build a
social and affective relationship to
each other um also there are some hypers
scanning studies on interpers affective
Dynamics in the brain during
improvisation and music therapy session
as Clemens
did so um in some social affective
Neuroscience of musical Rhythm can
profit from the um combination of the
hypers scanning methods the mobile um
brain body Imaging mob the three um
stage cycle framework and also from
music theoretical work uh which predicts
effective responses in ecologically
valid rhythmic social
interaction now let me close this talk
uh by discussing the big picture uh be
behind the theoretical and Empirical
research I introduced so
far many of you might know um the Mind
Body problem um which which is about a
relationship between mental phenomena
and physical uh phenomena concerning the
social affective Neuroscience of musical
Rhythm um this Mind Body problem is
certainly still
relevant but I I'd like to point out
another problem uh namely the Mind mind
problem uh okay what's this as some of
you might have noticed during my talk um
social affective neurosci of music has
to do with two types of the
mind on the one hand um it deals with a
computational mind so uh the mind as an
information processing
system maybe you remember that I talked
about Hier structure underly musical
Rhythm um here the idea is that rhythmic
sequence is hierarchically processed and
is represented as hcal structure and
this is one example of information
processing that the computational Mind
does and the relationship between
incoming information and mental
representations is often determined by
abstract
rules according to this uh kind of
information processing approach effect
is a result of hierarchical processing
and is based on hierarchical
representations so uh my claim that your
experience of tangent relaxation
patterns of Rhythm sequence depends on
the underlying hierarchical structures
is based on this kind of information
processing
approach um one Central Assumption of
the information processing approach is
that this kind of par processing is
universal to Human
so according to cultural background for
example we might represent different her
structures but the fact that we
hierarchically process rmic sequences
and represent them as hierarchal
structure is the same for all of
us also um information processing
approach assumes that cognitive process
say um hierarchical processing can be
isolated from the environmental social
or bodily context
as a consequence uh researchers try to
experimentally test a cognitive process
of interest and the highly controlled
laboratory
setting also they uh mainly focus on uh
how a particular cognitive process is
implemented in the
brain here social component is also
treated as a type of information
processed by and represented in the
brain on the other hand we also have a
phenomenological mind for our personal
experience of musical Rhythm this is
particularly relevant uh for research on
the effective component of musical
Rhythm because effect effect is
something that we personally
experience I also think that uh from the
perspective of music therapy the
phenomenological mind plays a central
role because each person has uh maybe
different experience of Music theraputic
sessions
here um information processing approach
faces limitations because um to study
personal experience um the acting
sensing and feeling bodies and the
environment cannot be ignored so um to
study the phenomenological mind another
approach um called situated cognition is
considered to be better um because it
puts more emphasis on the role of the
body and its Dynamic interaction with
environment
um situated cognition assumes that the
brain body and environment are connected
or even intertwined and
Inseparable um according to this
approach the brain is not a system
processing and representing abstract
rules or structures um the brain is a
predictive system controlling the way
the body interacts with the environment
or one part of uh the acting sensing and
feeling body coupled with the
environment so a real life approach is
of particular importance for situated
cognition because it takes the full
complexity of the environment um into
account also um social interaction um as
a part of the environment is a
constituent part of the cognition so
social component is not static abstract
representation in the brain but a a part
of dynamically changing
environment and at first glance these
approaches uh seem to be too different
to be integrated into a a coherent
framework but uh there are some possible
uh linking hypothesis which can be
investigated in the future
research for example one um on the one
hand uh information processing approach
examines how expectancy is built and
expectancy violation is processed on the
basis of abstract rules on the other
hand um there is also approach with
insuated cognition which studies how
prediction and prediction error are
processed on the basis of our sensory
motor systems and so of course it is an
important difference if it deals with
abstract rules or sensory motor systems
but both approaches consider similar
phenomena
I also think that um entrainment could
act as a potential mechanism linking
musical Rhythm effect and social
interaction beyond the borders of
different approaches uh for information
processing approach entainment is a
neural mechanism associated with Hier
structure building and here entainment
is understood as F synchronization or
coupling of neural
oscillations and for situated cognition
entainment is a central mechanism for
the within and between individual
sensory motor and social affective
coupling um here entertainment can act
as a basis for shared emotional
experience between individuals because
the brain the body and the environment
um can be coupled VI entrainment and the
emotional experience can be distributed
across uh multiple
people so in general um I think that the
situation is very similar to this
drawing uh from Asia this is my favorite
drawing and as you can see here uh from
one perspective uh for example here the
other perspectives um do not make any
sense but at the same time all those
perspectives coexist and are linked to
each other um so as this drawing shows I
think that each approach captures
cognition from its um ideosyncratic
perspective and all approaches
contribute to research on the
relationship between musical Rhythm
effect and social interaction in a
complimentary
Manner and um I think that uh we can
link those perspectives once we
integrate music theoretical research
Empirical research in the laboratory and
real life research such as music therapy
research okay so um this is my end of my
talk and I would like to thank my
co-author CL smof K okanoya and Daniela
zla who are currently supporting my
research H and also my son now Bastian
Ruma uh he is now nine months old who
had slept long enough uh in the past
week so that I was able to prepare for
this talk and my husband uh who um
always supports me okay and thank you
very much to you and I'm happy to take
uh any questions and critical comments
and we were thinking about social
interactive studies you want to say
something about
that how uh we um combine real life
research and this laboratory research
one you mean yeah um I think um yeah for
example incubation index um is something
that predicts um uh predict rhythmic um
yeah rhythmic prediction and prediction
error and this can be um studied in
laboratory research um and there is
already uh much research done on this
and I think uh this is something that we
can also see um in real life research
for example if you interact how is you
are how complex is your interaction with
the others and then you can uh compare
the result with the laboratory um
research for example um or maybe in the
um music therapy there is also something
like expectancy violation which is
manipulated I don't know um if there is
such thing and then uh we can see okay
can we uh take this uh expectancy
violation from um yeah music therapy um
technique can we um test this part in
the laboratory for example um maybe this
kind of thing um or also enterment um uh
if people interact uh each other and
there is some um synchronization of
movement um um we know from the
laboratory research that is also um
relate yeah this is related to um uh
some effective or Pro pro-social effect
and then we can also check this kind of
stuff in real life research um yeah and
I think music research uh went in this
direction uh very much with the
entainment and effect but I think um we
can also do something with expectancy
violation and expectancy uh because we
can um connect very well to music uh
theoretical work and then there is not
so much research done in that direction
yeah some of you may know um because
um Clem said I'm doing syntax research
and this is um a very yeah a perspective
from information processing as I told
you because syntax uh is something uh
yeah based on um abstract rules right
maybe you know the name chsky and uh I'm
from this part and then I got uh to this
discour and discussion with sated
cognition um as I was discussing all
stuffs with Clemens and uh also York and
uh yeah I I I find it's really important
to um to consider um this the
relationship between entainment um and
the body environment and the Brain uh
because many people are still doing
research um uh on the brain entrainment
or how we entrain to Medical stimuli or
how we entrain each other on that level
yes but uh not really um how we uh use
or how entent can act as um a mechanism
connecting people or connecting some
experience uh between people how uh it
distributes possibly um some effective
experiences between interacting agents
and I think um this is something that uh
we can do and I think uh this is very
relevant for music therapetic research
because um if I understood it correctly
um patient and um um therapist share
some emotional experiences and there
should be some mechanism um underlying
this shared experience and um I think
entrainment could be one uh that we can
um uh we can um
study yeah thank
you I ask question syncopation As the
metric for uh synchrony you've kind of
mentioned this um there there's a
u inverted U shape curve for positive
aect do you think this is the same for
entrainments um okay so I think um
entrainment is something that also
generates expectancy so this is why we
can synchronize because we can expect
when the other people um move right um
and then syncopation is more about
expectancy violation because on the mo
at the moment where we expect the
movement or sound of others we don't get
it so um I think entainment and
expectancy violation are also relate
also relate to each other in terms of
entainment as kind of expectancy
generating mechanism and then
syncopation relates to expectancy
violation so um I think um yeah inment
of of course connect people but the
thing is uh if uh it's uh the all the
story then we just crap our hand you
know in very simple uh piles and then we
are satisfied right but it's not the
case but uh but music is more complex
and if we um start interacting in some
music impation or music interaction uh
people um tend to somehow modulate the
Rhythm so not just uh you know clapping
hand in in your P um so so I think this
is uh yeah those are both aspects that
we have to uh consider if we um uh talk
about positive effect or con connecting
people with rhythm I think uh on one
hand expectancy with the simple piles
with ENT
on the other hand something that um
violates expectancy to um yeah to induce
uh even more movements um yeah in this
interaction so I think they are kind of
uh uh different side of one coin
yeah just to finish on that point you
talked about Groove do you think if you
can maximize Groove you could uh
maximize I don't know
entrainment yeah I think so yeah so this
is um one prediction based on Theory
because um yeah there is study showing
that groovy music um um activates a
motor area of the brain uh which also
which is also um involved in in training
uh on on body movement to music so I
think um yeah it should somehow relate
it um it should be somehow related
yeah re says thank you but she sent it
to the host and panelist but it was for
everyone okay yeah thank you thank you
everyone and see you soon
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