Does SORENESS = MUSCLE GROWTH? (ft. Dr. Mike Israetel)
Summary
TLDRIn this episode of Strawber Science, Dr. Mike Isto discusses the role of muscle soreness in training for hypertrophy. He emphasizes that while soreness is not a primary indicator of muscle growth, it can be a useful tool at the extremes, suggesting under or overtraining. The conversation delves into the complexities of muscle soreness, its correlation with muscle damage and recovery, and the importance of using soreness as one of many variables to inform training adjustments. The experts also explore the physiological mechanisms behind soreness and its potential as a proxy for muscle stimulation.
Takeaways
- đȘ Soreness in training is a complex topic and should not be solely relied upon to guide gym practices like adding or removing sets.
- đ The primary focus should be on increasing strength over time; if this is happening, soreness becomes secondary.
- đ« Lack of soreness might indicate underdosing, especially if there's no progress in muscle growth or strength.
- â° Consistent overlapping soreness could suggest under-recovery, which might hinder optimal performance in the gym.
- đ€ The physiological mechanisms behind soreness are not well understood and could involve immune system responses.
- đ Soreness is more aligned with the muscle remodeling process rather than just muscle damage.
- đïžââïž For beginners, the ability to perceive soreness accurately is often limited and can improve with experience.
- đ Soreness can be influenced by various factors such as the introduction of new exercises, rep ranges, and training volume.
- đ€ Advanced trainees might use soreness as one of several decision-making variables when adjusting their training programs.
- đ§ The use of anti-inflammatory drugs and cold water can reduce soreness, suggesting a link between inflammation and the perception of soreness.
- đ While anti-inflammatory drugs reduce inflammation, they also reduce soreness, indicating a possible connection between the two.
Q & A
What is the primary focus when using soreness as a guide in training for hypertrophy?
-The primary focus should be on whether you are getting stronger for reps over time. Soreness becomes secondary to this, and it is more important to monitor progress in strength gains rather than just the presence of soreness.
Why might someone not experience soreness during their training?
-A lack of soreness could indicate underdosing, where the training stimulus is not sufficient to cause muscle damage and the associated soreness. It could also mean that the individual has an exceptionally easy recovery, but if progress is not being made, it might be time to increase the training stimulus.
What could be a sign of overtraining in terms of soreness?
-Consistent overlapping soreness, where the soreness from one session lasts into the next training session, could be a sign of overtraining and under-recovery, indicating that the body is not fully recovering between workouts.
How might an absence of soreness affect muscle growth?
-If an individual is not experiencing any soreness and is not seeing progress in muscle growth or strength, it might suggest that the training volume or intensity is insufficient to stimulate muscle hypertrophy.
What is the relationship between soreness and the introduction of new exercises?
-Soreness is often more pronounced when new exercises are introduced, as the body is not accustomed to the specific movements. This novelty effect can be beneficial for hypertrophy as it provides a new stimulus for muscle growth.
How does the perception of soreness differ between beginners and advanced athletes?
-Beginners may not be able to differentiate between joint soreness and muscle belly soreness, whereas advanced athletes may have a better understanding of their bodies and can more accurately perceive and interpret soreness signals.
What could be some reasons for the discrepancy between muscle damage and perceived soreness?
-The physiological mechanisms of soreness are not well understood, and various factors can contribute to the perception of soreness, including immune cell infiltration, muscle damage, and the introduction of new exercises or training techniques.
How might anti-inflammatory drugs affect the perception of soreness?
-Anti-inflammatory drugs can reduce inflammation at a physiological level, which may also lead to a reduction in the perception of soreness, suggesting a link between inflammation and the sensation of soreness.
What is the potential risk of using soreness as a guide for individualizing training?
-Using soreness as a guide without a full understanding of its physiological basis could potentially lead to suboptimal training adjustments, such as reducing volume too much, which might hinder muscle growth.
How can soreness be used effectively in a hypertrophy program?
-Soreness can be used effectively at the extremes, as a sign of potential underdosing or overtraining, and as one of many decision variables when adjusting training volume or intensity. It should not be the sole determinant but considered alongside other factors like strength gains and recovery.
What is the role of empirical evidence in shaping training guidelines compared to individual perceptions like soreness?
-Empirical evidence provides a tested and measured foundation for training guidelines, while individual perceptions like soreness can offer additional insights. However, it's important to base training adjustments primarily on empirical evidence and use perceptions as supplementary information.
Outlines
đïžââïž Training and Soreness in Hypertrophy
Dr. Mike Isto discusses the role of soreness in training, emphasizing that the primary focus should be on increasing strength over time. Soreness is secondary and can be an indicator of underdosing or overdosing. He explains that if one is not getting stronger, then soreness might suggest a need to adjust training volume or intensity. Conversely, excessive soreness could indicate overtraining and a need to reduce stimulus. The conversation also touches on the importance of mind-muscle connection and the potential for individual variability in experiencing soreness.
đ€ The Complexity of Soreness Perception
The dialogue delves into the uncertainty surrounding the physiological mechanisms of soreness, acknowledging that it's not well understood. Soreness is discussed as a secondary feature of training stimulus and may involve immune system responses. It's suggested that soreness correlates with factors like the introduction of new exercises, proximity to failure, and increased volume, all of which are known to contribute to hypertrophy. However, the correlation between soreness and muscle damage is weak, and the perception of soreness can be influenced by various factors, including assessment methods and individual differences.
đ The Role of Soreness in Recovery and Training Adjustments
The speakers debate the utility of soreness as a metric for recovery and training adjustments. While one argues that performance in the gym should be the primary indicator of recovery, the other suggests that soreness, being potentially linked to the muscle remodeling process, might be beneficial in guiding training volume. They discuss the possibility of using soreness to individualize training but acknowledge the risk of moving away from empirically supported training volumes based on incomplete understanding of soreness.
đȘ Balancing Soreness with Training Intensity
The conversation explores the idea of using soreness to balance training intensity, with the understanding that excessive soreness might hinder performance. They consider the possibility that soreness could be a sign of inadequate recovery and suggest that reducing training volume might be beneficial in such cases. The speakers also discuss the potential benefits of allowing individuals to self-regulate their training volume based on their soreness response, despite the lack of concrete evidence supporting this approach.
đ€ Unusual Soreness as a Potential Health Concern
The discussion concludes with a case example of an individual experiencing unusually intense and prolonged soreness, prompting a recommendation to seek medical advice. The speakers agree that while soreness can be a useful training variable to some extent, it should not replace empirical evidence when making training decisions. They emphasize the importance of being cautious with subjective measures of training response and the need for further research to better understand the relationship between soreness, muscle damage, and growth.
Mindmap
Keywords
đĄPerception of Soreness
đĄHypertrophy
đĄMind-Muscle Connection
đĄUnderdosing
đĄRecovery
đĄTraining Volume
đĄNeurological Adaptations
đĄMuscle Damage
đĄImmune Infiltration
đĄEccentric Control
đĄNewbie Gains
Highlights
The importance of using soreness as a guide in training for hypertrophy is discussed.
Soreness is secondary to getting stronger over time in terms of training effectiveness.
Lack of soreness might indicate underdosing or insufficient training stimulus.
Consistent overlapping soreness could suggest under-recovery and hinder strength gains.
The potential benefits of using intensification techniques like length and partials for increased soreness and hypertrophy.
The role of training volume in causing soreness and its correlation with hypertrophy.
The uncertainty in the physiological mechanisms behind soreness and its correlation with muscle growth.
Soreness as a potential indicator of the remodeling process post-exercise rather than direct muscle damage.
The weak correlation between perceived soreness and muscle damage markers.
The impact of various factors like exercise novelty, rep range, and training volume on soreness.
The idea that soreness might be a proxy for the degree of training stimulus.
The use of soreness as a decision-making variable in adjusting training volume.
The potential risks of using soreness as a training guide without a full understanding of its implications.
The suggestion that individual responses to soreness could help optimize training beyond average recommendations.
The importance of empirical evidence as a foundation for training practices, with soreness as an additional variable.
The discussion on the use of anti-inflammatory drugs and their effect on reducing soreness and potentially muscle remodeling.
The practical approach to using soreness in conjunction with empirical data for training adjustments.
The acknowledgment of the limitations in understanding soreness and its role in muscle adaptation.
Transcripts
welcome back to strawber science Dr mil
wolf with you today with an expert Dr
Mike isto talking about perception of
soreness in training as a means to guide
whatever you're doing in the gym like
adding sets removing sets doing
different exercises essentially how
would you use soreness would you use it
with regards to your lifting practice
that's a great question I assume it's in
the context of hypertrophy correct cool
so I've explained this a few times
sometimes at length and a lot of times
when I explain it folks will understand
what I'm getting at and sometimes I
think something's kind of Lost in
Translation because I kind of have like
a it's kind of a two it's a little bit
more complicated than just soreness
means this soreness doesn't mean that
and so I'll try to explain it in such a
way that it's because about as simple as
I can explain it but that still conveys
roughly what I'm trying to get at so
fundamentally what really matters is are
you getting stronger for reps over time
and if that's occurring the sess is
going to be always and everywhere very
much secondary to that so if you're
getting stronger over time I'm not going
to like kick dicks out of your mouth and
tell you like you're doing soreness
wrong or some [Â __Â ] like that soreness
becomes much more of a thing when it it
has two cases one is if you're not
getting sore at all and and other
indicators in your program seem to
suggest
underdosing uh or you just have like the
easiest recovery in the world and you're
not progressing either at all or at a
pace you have come to expect or for some
good reason expect to progress at so if
you're not getting sore ever let's say a
quick example you're training your
triceps and they're not big and they are
not growing your rep strength over time
is a increasing and you have trouble
with uh kind of generating a mind muscle
connection I think there's triceps back
there I'm not so sure and you're also
not getting sore I would say that
whatever amount of tricep training
you're doing and by amount I mean total
stimulus which could be proximity to
failure the degree of um effectiveness
of your Technique how good your
Technique is exercise selection and the
biggest one is training volume something
there is probably under stimulating and
if you also don't get sore I can tell
you yeah it's probably a decent idea to
try to crank up the
stimulus that brings in the secondary
discussion of soreness if let's say you
train 2 days a week also triceps Monday
Thursday just to keep the [Â __Â ] real
simple and you have delayed onset soret
that lasts from Monday until Wednesday
evening or even Thursday morning and
then you have a delay onset sorus that
lasts from from Friday morning after the
Thursday session all the way to Sunday
evening
consistently whatever problems you have
with your Gams I would proposition that
an underdosing of stimulus is highly
unlikely to be one of them because if
you cranked up the stimulus you would
start to get overlapping soreness and we
know that at least in some methods of
analysis consistent overlapping soreness
means you're probably under recovering
and it means that you're not your strong
longest at the time of lifting and yes
some studies on very beginner people
with a neurological adaptations on Pace
everything show that even if you're sore
you can still make strength gains but
I'll tell you this if you have to do
your best in the gym for any one session
do you want to be sore coming into that
session or not sore I surmise that the
answer is not sore and so if someone
says look man my triceps aren't growing
I go do you get sore and they go dude
I've never been sore I'm like oo outside
of the other methods of analysis I would
say it's incrementally beneficial for
you to consider that you're underdosing
somehow and doing more may be part of
the answer on the other hand if you tell
me like dude my triceps aren't growing
and do you get sore like unsore all the
[Â __Â ] time my next guess is probably
doing less might be better than doing
more in that context especially if it's
regular not just like your first week or
something like that so that's kind of
high approached soreness but it can be
instructive at its extremes especially
to put it another way really quick
really simple if you're struggling to
grow something and you just never have
felt Doms in it you might want to
experiment with some intensification for
example length and partials consistently
make almost everyone that tries them
more sore than usual not just from
novelty regularly for weeks and end and
they seem to kind of [Â __Â ] work
cranking up volume will make you more
sore and so on and so on on the other
hand if you're just getting sore like
[Â __Â ] crazy you're probably more
limited by recovery and training harder
is highly unlikely to be a part of the
answer one final question on sorus
before I give my sort of response to
that one thing I think we need to
clarify is what does sorus actually mean
to you I can answer this in a couple of
ways one is there is a high degree of
uncertainty about what the physiological
mechanisms of sorus are and we've known
that for a long time I know of at least
one old ultr structural tissue analysis
paper that showed with analysis of
things like zline streaming and things
that sonus was much more aligned with a
a very robust hypertrophic response than
it was with a response of pure muscle
damage we also know that SOS arisis is a
secondary feature not a primary feature
of stimulus we know it probably has
something to do with immune infiltration
also and I'm very confident about this
when you take more drugs you get more
sleep and you eat more food you get more
sore not less and if it was just linear
damage you would be like but all these
things help the damage how the hell is
sorus thing now so to me what sorus
actually is at a deep analytical level
is unclear but I do know that sorus also
correlates with the following things the
introduction of a new exercise or new
rep range and we we know that novelty is
highly correlated to gains because
that's how newb gains work if newb gains
aren't magic God doesn't know what time
it is in your life for training the
novelty effect is the newb gains effect
and is profoundly helpful for
hypertrophy we know that you get more
sore if you uh get closer to failure we
also know that causes hypertrophy we
know that you get more sore if you do
more volume that cause hypertrophy we
know if you do uh more Ecentric control
at long muscle lengths that causes more
s we also know robustly that causes more
hypertrophy you start to line up all the
variables here's another thing in my
coaching of very many athletes
especially uh athlete athletes
volleyball players soccer players the
people that grow muscle the fastest
visually they get the strongest that are
the more fast fiber oriented they get
robustly more sore than everyone else
endurance athletes [Â __Â ] 10 sets of
everything they just don't get sore and
you're like all right well soreness has
nothing to do with growth no worries and
then they don't [Â __Â ] grow too many
correlations for me to just be like this
has nothing to do with anything so I
suspect that us is a proxy not the proxy
and there are other things going on that
can even conflate these variables a
proxy for the degree of stimulus
introduced does that mean stimulus
equals growth no but stimulus may cause
growth I think it makes a lot of sense
and by in large I agree that soreness is
typically correlated to some degree with
stimulus for hypertrophy I guess the one
thing that strikes me in all this like
we agree on most things when it comes to
stimulus when it comes to underdosing
training volume or intensity or what
have you for I purch y the one thing I
struggle with from the research side of
things is using soreness potentially as
aox fatigue the reason for that is as
you mentioned soreness is not a super
well understood topic soreness is kind
of it could be caused by a variety of
factors and a recent review paper I
think identified about eight factors
eight separate factors that could be
responsible for the soreness perception
another way of saying we just don't know
exactly like there's just a lot of
uncertainty there right and that was 3
years ago line up of eight people to do
a crime and you're like it could be all
eight like wow excellent see later ited
them and you're like all right could be
that gu could be that gu yeah um so we
really don't understand soreness and how
it relates even to muscle damage sure
and in fact there's a study by msaka and
colleagues from 2005 I believe where
they essentially had participants
performing very damaging protocol in the
biceps with eent contractions
essentially creating a bunch of muscle
damage and then measuring markers of
muscle damage like creating chies like
recovery of performance recover
performance from before the damaging
bout to after the damaging bout say 2
hours later 24 hours later Etc that is
probably one of if not the best moru of
recovery right essentially the degree of
muscle damage induced didn't really
correlate very well with how people
perceive their soreness did it correlate
somewhat with it was it depended on
position so essentially soreness was
assessed in three different positions
like with your arm extended flexed and
palpated and there was a few things one
no matter the position the correlation
between perceived soreness and any
marker of muscle damage whether it was
creating chinise recovery of performance
in a very unskilled test AK isometric
test the correlation was always about
0.3 or less so quite a weak correlation
if there was one and more importantly
the correlation of soreness in different
positions was also quite low between
about 0.3 and 0.6 mhm so how you assess
soreness can also heavily impact how
sore you feel and so if all you're going
by in the gym is like ah feeling pretty
sore but then some days you're you're
feeling it while you're stretching some
days you're feeling it while you're
moving up some days you're feeling it
while you're actually do movement all of
those are different assessments of
soreness and they may not correlate
successfully for sure I I'm uninterested
in what beginners think about how sore
they are they just aren't interested in
any perceptual factors beginners half
short of like I think something broke do
you think ability to perceive soreness
is something that advanc people get
better at like substantially better yeah
absolutely because I a lot of beginners
can't even differentiate joint soreness
and muscle belly soreness sure uh and so
you really don't know what the [Â __Â ]
you're at we don't know anything about
this from research side could be true
could be not true it's true yeah I I'm
open to that possibility um but I just
think specifically as far as using it as
a metric of recovery I think performance
in the gym should be by far the primary
one and at this stage I don't think we
have anecdotally we may have some
evidence like hey when I feel sared
sometimes I don't perform well what have
you but from that study specifically
there was actually a positive
correlation between sorness and
performance so people were a bit more
sore if anything perform a little bit
better and that's in line with some
research suggesting that soreness is
more indicative of the remodeling
process than it is of damage so damage
occurs instantly when you exercise mhm
soreness seems to be more so delayed
indicative or indicating that it is more
more in alignment with the remodeling
process from damage than it is actual
muscle damage and disruption disruption
to the muscle I've been saying that for
about 20 years uh yay I got something
right but doesn't that also highly
implicate soreness and a probability of
being associated with
growth isn't sorus like you're still
growing and recovering and remodeling if
sorus is implicated as a symptom of
remodeling why are you in the gym
training if you're still remodeling is
an interesting question to ask now there
could be like well look like overlapping
remodeling curves are totally fine I'm
open to that idea but uh maybe if you
waited a little bit and then hit it
again when you were healed maybe it
would be all good to go I'm not sure
about that but I think especially the
extremes it starts to make sense if
you're so sore that you're clearly not
going to lift as much as usual maybe
it's time to back the [Â __Â ] up a little
bit and wait a little bit if you're a
little bit sore I just don't think it's
a big deal either way yeah I I see that
the one thing I'll come back to and now
we talk about the research a little bit
is
exponentially when I am sore that
doesn't consistently predict High
perform if I'm cripplingly sore like for
example I once did the uh a session from
the NF study the 26 set session where
they were doing 52 sets of quads a week
I did that essentially unprepared and my
God I hit uh un five mobile levels of
soreness you peak in soreness so 3 Days
Later instantly oh you got it felt like
it was instant like it was like I was
sore for 6 seven days maybe six seven
days when was the worst soreness what
day honestly it was it was if I had to
rate it and that's the issue with rating
obviously may not be consistent or
reliable happy but if I had to rate it
for the th like 3 days it was 10 out 10
yeah amazing from like two hours maybe
an hour even onwards I remember not
really being able to walk properly for a
few hours yeah it was it was incredible
but anyways outside of extreme
circumstances I haven't found that a
perception of soreness is really
indicative of how performing gy and to
me because Rec well because performance
in the gym is the best proxy for
Recovery because it essentially
incorporates a lot of stuff right like
it incorporates already psychologically
ready how damage your muscles
potentially all of that stuff like more
Central factors and more per
factors if sess doesn't performance I'm
inclined to go consistently in sort of
day-to-day normal contexts I'm inclined
to say it may not be the best predictor
of should I be training how much oh is
definitely not the best predictor of
that but I would also say that if sess
seems to be more and more linked in
literature as part of the remodeling
process for sport athletes like if
you're sore shut up go on the soccer
field nobody gives a [Â __Â ] you're not
going to break into pieces you'll
perform just fine unless you're crippled
but if your goal is hypertrophy and
remodeling is clearly still robustly
occurring as evidenced by sorus why not
just take more time off and or next week
when when you do the session again do
four sets instead of six sure so that
you can have an area under the curve of
remodeling that ends relatively close to
your next session the issue I take with
using soreness essentially as a means to
individualize training is that we don't
know a ton about sorness and we don't
even have super clear evidence on
exactly whether or not remodeling is the
growth of SP like there's there's going
to be differences right so there's a
recovery model and response and a tissue
aggregation exactly like sh studies
right they could be very linked Asama
study suggest or they could be pretty
different in some context or they could
Ur over different timelines variet
things it's really not a well understood
area of resour yeah and so my contention
or my issue with this stuff is are we
using soreness and pump and other
experiential variables as a means to
Auto regulate or individualize training
but potentially moving things in a
Direction
that isn't optimal right cuz if we have
now I think what 20 studies on volume
we're close to it and sure they work in
averages right so they can only really
inform us well about our starting place
but still because they work in averages
the average responder in the study will
be somewhat similar to the average
responder in the real world but so if
we're using these variables to say all
right let's move your volume for chest
from what we think is going to be quite
effective based on literature say 15 to
25 sets a week for your chest and you're
getting sore and we use soreness as like
a very strong pred predictive factor of
stimulus or recovery and we're like look
you're still sore 3 days
later we need to reduce volume or if
it's overlapping soreness if that t
takes us from 15 to 25 sets which is
what we've empirically derived to be a
solid place for most people and we take
that down to say eight sets from
empirical versus rational perspective I
tend to identify more with the empirical
side of things because in these studies
we actually measuring growth from
manipulating the variable of interest M
so it's the most direct research there
is so if you're using an area of
research or a variable that we don't
understand fully yet and we're doing at
the expense of this variable we've
tested empirically quite a few times I
fear we might be actually reducing
muscle growth MH and that's where the
real risk of using soreness or the pump
or these variables that aren't fully
understood yet really arises to me yeah
does that make sense tot what's your
General fallowing on my general thought
is you could have a situation which the
averages make sense but uh in the
averages could be optimized even more if
you let individuals guide themselves
through soreness which we don't have any
data to prove against so the average
growth can be good even when some people
get overlapping soreness but if you
designed a study which you Auto
regulated via soreness responses we
could find out later that they every
everyone gets better growth the people
that can recover faster get more volume
we already know people who are
recovering more easily to increase their
volume they do better it's if people
have trouble recovering and you know the
soreness versus recovery thing is a bit
tentative then maybe they can do less
and benefit we already know that the
standard deviation of optimal volume
within any given study is quite large
it's not like everyone is somewhere
between 17 and 14 sets do very very
large Deltas on that so maybe soreness
can help guide us another thing is at
the beginning of a program this
compelling reasoning that you just gave
as you work through a program you're uh
you just don't get soore nearly as
easily and then your ability to float
into the muscle uh hypertrophy ranges
that are really really uh overall quite
optimal is is pretty much unabated I
mean you could just keep adding sets for
a while and everything's all good so I
use sorus in two ways I use it at the
extremes and I use it as one of the
decisional variables on top of all of
the others so like with the RP
hypertophy app for example if you tell
it you have psychotic go go right now
right now I need money I don't see money
um if it uh if you tell it like I'm get
super [Â __Â ] sore still from last week
it'll reduce your volume and the next
time that you go around but you can
always just hit the plus sign at add a
set we never disable that function at
the end of the day if you're like [Â __Â ]
it I'm sore but whatever I don't give a
[Â __Â ] we're like hey maybe maybe that
works so uh really it's just a matter of
uh after the first few days or weeks of
a program you you may be the amount of
volume it may take to get you really
sore probably starts to line up with the
volume recommendations that we see
generally in the literature now at first
in week one Soros comes really easily
but I would also contend based on an
interview I did a little while ago with
pack that easing into a program so that
you never get the psychotic sorus also
has its advantages as well so that's
kind of how I see it cool I think we
agree uh by and large I think what It
ultimately comes down to is one maybe
differences in minimizing type one error
rate versus getting that potential
benefit which as a coach it makes sense
right even if something doesn't have all
of the evidence behind it yet but
there's a potential benefit like
LinkedIn partials for example I tend to
think it may be what incorporating right
totally as a practitioner for sure but
from an evidence-based perspective it
may be a little bit different totally
and it's totally valid as a way to
operate within the j% what I like to do
is I like to take the empirical evidence
as the foundation for things that are
very likely correct and very likely
Incorrect and then I take more heris
variables like sonus and pump on a layer
them on top of that and if they can give
me incremental hypothetical margin of
more intelligent decision- making I'll
use them but I won't use them if they
violate the underpinning variables uh so
but most times that doesn't happen with
people sometimes it does and then and
then a lot of times you have to seek a
little further clarification like tell
you this like uh I I'm familiar with one
gentleman I consulted with recently who
has been getting sore from one or two
sets for like four or 5 days at a time
and it's been getting more intense even
though he's been training for months and
months I legitimately told him to go see
a doctor because like that is a very
unusual have you ever seen that in
practice like you train up and then
you're getting more sore yeah and and
the volume it takes to get you sore is
is I've never seen that mind turn exact
that's the thing right like we don't
fully understand what factors contribute
to differences in how people perceive
soreness for sure it's a perception of
soreness versus actual muscle damage and
the uh the jump from one to the other
can be totally totally and and and uh I
will say this I I have never tied my
card to the horse that says soreness
equals muscle damage I always thought
that sorus was more indicative of
secondary immune infiltration caused
muscle damage but that's the same kind
of muscle damage as primary muscle
damage and it's less muscle damage but
more like the immune system cells
actually unzipping the various parts of
the muscle cell and starting to fix the
[Â __Â ] that's what it seems like is
occurring here's another piece of
compelling um secondary tier evidence
anti-inflammatory drugs cannot possibly
interfere with with muscle damage the
[Â __Â ] Superman drug you can't break your
muscles they don't do that but if you
take high doses of n ineds pre during
and post you get a huge decline in delay
on set muscle soreness and also a
decline in hyper same with cold water in
it cold water you know down like blood
flow and all totally you know but but
once about eight out of 10 variables
line up to soreness and growth point in
the same general direction I got to
think like
man to it's soreness but also muscle
down damage so in this case nids
literally reduce inflammation on the
physiological level correct but they
also happen to reduce soreness right yes
I agree that that's some evidence in
favor of the two going hand in hand but
it's important to acknowledge whenever
we discuss them obviously we're giving
advice to people ultimately we have to
be somewhat practical sure but I think
just on a framework level we always have
to be like okay let's uh this thing was
should to a old these are all educated
guesses and they're all highly imperfect
for sure yeah hey man it was beautiful I
love it if you like the video like the
video comment subscribe and stay tuned
peace
[Music]
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