"He Likes Chaos" - Michael Lewis On Trump's Intentions With The Tariffs Regime

Summary

In this lively conversation on 'The Late Show,' best-selling author Michael Lewis discusses his new book, *Who is Government?*, which explores the complexities of public service. The dialogue touches on pressing political issues, including tariffs and Donald Trump's approach to trade. Lewis delves into the unpredictable nature of Trump's decisions, explaining how his zero-sum mindset influences his policies, especially in relation to trust and economic interactions. The conversation highlights the chaos and lack of trust fostered by Trump's leadership, leaving relationships with allies in jeopardy and questioning the long-term impacts on international trust.

Takeaways

• 😀 Michael Lewis is the best-selling author of books such as 'Moneyball,' 'The Blind Side,' and 'The Big Short.' He has written a new book called 'Who Is Government?' that explores the untold story of public service.
• 😀 The conversation begins with a discussion on Michael Lewis' new book, which is timely given the rising questions about the role of government in modern society.
• 😀 Stephen Colbert humorously comments on Michael Lewis' ability to explain complex subjects clearly, calling him a great explainer.
• 😀 A key topic discussed is the ongoing trade tariffs under Donald Trump's administration, which are causing confusion among both supporters and critics.
• 😀 Michael Lewis and Stephen Colbert discuss whether anyone truly believed Trump would enact the tariffs he promised during his campaign. Both agree that many did not expect the current situation.
• 😀 Michael Lewis suggests that Trump's approach to trade is rooted in a zero-sum mindset, where any gain by another country is seen as a loss for the U.S.
• 😀 Lewis mentions that Trump's approach to trade and tariffs seems to be driven by grievances, rather than a well-thought-out economic strategy.
• 😀 When asked about economists' opinions on Trump's tariffs, Michael Lewis explains that no economist thinks tariffs are a good idea, although many economists don't want to openly challenge the president.
• 😀 Michael Lewis believes that Trump's preference for chaos is central to his governing style, and that he thrives in environments where trust is undermined.
• 😀 The conversation ends with Michael Lewis explaining that Trump's behavior has led to a loss of trust in international relationships, such as with Canada, and whether or not the U.S. can regain that trust in the future is uncertain.

Q & A

What is the main topic of Michael Lewis's new book?

Michael Lewis's new book, 'Who is Government? The Untold Story of Public Service,' focuses on the role of federal workers and public service in government.

How does Stephen Colbert describe Michael Lewis's ability to explain complex subjects?

Stephen Colbert praises Michael Lewis for his ability to explain complex subjects clearly, breaking them down into understandable parts.

What does Michael Lewis think about the tariffs imposed by Donald Trump?

Michael Lewis is critical of the tariffs imposed by Donald Trump, stating that he doesn't know anyone who thinks it's a good idea. He suggests that Trump sees the world in zero-sum terms, where if someone gains, it must be at his expense.

Does Michael Lewis believe Trump would actually implement tariffs during his campaign?

No, Michael Lewis did not believe Trump would follow through with the tariffs during the campaign. He mentions that no one expected Trump to do what he's doing now.

What is Michael Lewis's opinion on Trump's understanding of trade?

Michael Lewis suggests that Trump does not understand trade in a win-win way, and instead views it as a zero-sum game where if someone benefits, it must come from his pocket.

Why does Michael Lewis think Trump likes chaos?

Michael Lewis argues that Trump thrives in chaotic environments. He points out that Trump is uncomfortable with trust, and he actively seeks to destroy trust between nations, which he sees as a way to level the playing field.

How does Michael Lewis describe Trump's approach to trust and relationships?

Michael Lewis describes Trump as someone who is deeply uncomfortable with trust. He believes that Trump tries to eliminate trust between people and nations because it gives him an advantage in a world where everyone is distrustful.

What does Michael Lewis think will happen if Trump changes his mind about the tariffs?

Michael Lewis suggests that if Trump were to suddenly reverse his stance on tariffs, no one would believe it, and it would be difficult for nations like Canada to trust the U.S. again, given the damage done to the trust-based trade relationships.

Why does Michael Lewis think that eliminating trust is beneficial for Trump?

Michael Lewis believes that Trump is good at navigating a world without trust. By eliminating trust, Trump can level the playing field and function more effectively in relationships where trust is broken down.

How does Michael Lewis describe Trump's credibility?

Michael Lewis describes Trump as someone who lies frequently, and when he speaks the truth, it is often by accident. This lack of credibility is one of the reasons why trust in his decisions is hard to maintain.