PTR Palanivel Thiagarajan |"மதங்களை வைத்து பிரிக்க நினைத்தால் தென்னிந்தியாவில் பலிக்காது" PTR அதிரடி
Summary
TLDRThe speaker, a state politician and former minister, expresses his views on the current Indian government, emphasizing the importance of federalism and the need for more equitable distribution of resources. He discusses the economic growth of India in comparison to China, highlighting the missed opportunities for growth post-pandemic and the importance of translating national pride into tangible improvements in the quality of life for citizens. The politician also addresses the challenges of one-party rule and the value of diverse voices in democracy. He further elaborates on the cultural differences between the southern and northern states of India, attributing the south's higher per capita income to factors such as social inclusion, women's empowerment, and historical seafaring culture. The discussion also touches on the impact of political alliances and the recent breakup between the AIADMK and BJP, with the speaker expressing surprise at the decision but acknowledging the unpredictable nature of politics.
Takeaways
- 🎓 **Education Empowerment**: Empowering women through education has been a significant factor in the South's development, with a focus on equal rights and access to opportunities.
- 🌐 **Global Outlook**: Historically, the South has been more outward-looking and global in perspective, which has contributed to its economic growth and adaptability to liberalization.
- 📈 **Economic Growth**: The South has capitalized on liberalization and globalization, leveraging its infrastructure, educated workforce, and English-speaking population to accelerate economic progress.
- 🏛️ **Social Inclusion**: Early legislation in the Madras Presidency advocating for social justice and equal rights has laid a foundation for the region's inclusive society.
- 🔄 **Opportunity Cost**: There is a concern about missed opportunities for growth, especially post-pandemic, where India could have done more to attract investment and replace China as a global trade partner.
- 🚧 **Infrastructure Development**: While pride and national infrastructure projects like highways and airports are commendable, the focus should be on their tangible impact on people's quality of life.
- 🤝 **Federalism and Unity**: There is a debate on the balance between national-level decision-making for reforms and the need for more federalism to allow states to self-govern according to their unique needs and conditions.
- 📊 **Per Capita GDP Disparity**: The South's higher per capita income is linked to better education levels, social justice, and gender equality, which are lacking in some northern states despite economic progress.
- 👥 **Cultural Differences**: The South's culture, which values social inclusion and empowerment, is seen as a key differentiator from the North, where religion and politics often intersect in ways that may not align with the South's values.
- 🗳️ **Political Accountability**: The speaker believes in the wisdom of the voters, who are expected to make choices based on the track record of politicians and their perception of what is beneficial for them.
- 🔍 **Democracy and Decision-Making**: There is an emphasis on the importance of devolving power to local authorities to increase accountability and the vibrancy of democracy, as opposed to centralizing authority.
Q & A
What are the in-laws' feelings about the speaker meeting the interviewee?
-The in-laws are very proud and happy that the speaker is meeting the interviewee, as they are big fans of the interviewee.
Why does the speaker mention being obsessed with the interviewee's interviews?
-The speaker has been following the interviewee's statements in articles and interviews for a long time, and after chairing a session and watching many of the interviewee's interviews, the speaker has become obsessed.
What is the speaker's concern regarding the growth and development of India?
-The speaker is concerned about the opportunity cost, especially in the last few years after the pandemic, and feels that India could be doing more to capitalize on global demand for investment and trade.
How does the speaker view the current state of equity, inclusion, and harmony in India?
-The speaker sees worse outcomes than expected in terms of equity, inclusion, and harmony, with social strife being observed, and is concerned that the government's pride and propaganda may be substituting for actual improvements in these areas.
What is the speaker's opinion on the effectiveness of the Modi government's policies?
-The speaker believes that while there is a lot of rhetoric and pride associated with the Modi government, there is not enough delivery, and the policies are too divisive and not yielding the expected results.
What does the speaker think is the key to a thriving democracy?
-The speaker believes that devolving power to those who can be held accountable, such as local bodies, is key to a thriving democracy.
Why does the speaker argue that one economic policy cannot suit all states in India?
-The speaker argues that the disparities in outcomes and problems among states, as well as the accelerated gap between states post-liberalization, necessitate different solutions and policies tailored to each state's unique circumstances.
What is the speaker's view on the role of religion in South Indian society?
-The speaker believes that while South Indian society is deeply religious, the region has managed to democratize religion, preventing it from being weaponized for political purposes.
How does the speaker explain the higher per capita income in the South compared to other regions?
-The speaker attributes the higher per capita income in the South to factors such as a culture of social inclusion, empowerment of women, and an outward-looking, seafaring society that has historically been more globally connected.
What is the speaker's perspective on the recent alliance between the DMK and the BJP?
-The speaker expresses surprise at the DMK's decision to break off the alliance with the BJP, given the BJP's past support which contributed to political stability.
What does the speaker suggest as the solution to the issues of delimitation and representation in India?
-The speaker suggests that if the Union's role is limited to key areas like defense and foreign affairs, then the number of MPs from each state should not matter as all interests would be aligned across states.
Outlines
😀 Introduction and Meeting with a Prominent Figure
The speaker begins by expressing their in-laws' pride, as they are meeting a well-known individual who has a significant influence on their opinions. The speaker, having been a state minister in Tamil Nadu, acknowledges the power of the individual's words and ideas. They discuss the importance of federalism and the need for constructive debate. The speaker also addresses the Modi government's achievements and challenges, focusing on national pride, infrastructure development, and the need for tangible improvements in people's quality of life.
😐 Critique of Government Performance and Federalism
The speaker elaborates on their concerns about the government's performance, particularly regarding economic growth and its comparison with China. They discuss the missed opportunities for growth post-pandemic and the importance of equity, inclusion, and harmony. The speaker argues against the use of pride as a substitute for actual job creation and better living conditions. They also touch upon the challenges of one-party rule and the benefits of a democratic approach with multiple voices contributing to policy-making.
🌐 The Role of Local and State Governance
The speaker emphasizes the importance of local governance and self-determination, stating that decisions about local issues should be made by local authorities. They discuss the role of the union government in India and the need for a balance between national and local decision-making. The speaker also highlights the diversity within India and how different states have unique challenges that may not be addressed by a one-size-fits-all policy.
📈 Economic Disparity and the Southern Model of Governance
The speaker explores the reasons behind the higher per capita income in South India, attributing it to factors such as an outward-looking society, a history of social inclusion, and the empowerment of women. They discuss the impact of liberalization and globalization on the region's growth and the importance of education and English proficiency in leveraging these opportunities. The speaker also addresses the religious diversity and tolerance in South India and how it contrasts with political strategies in the North.
🤔 The Impact of Religion on Politics
The speaker reflects on the role of religion in politics, distinguishing between belief in God and the use of religion as a political tool. They argue against the weaponization of religion and for a model of belief that promotes kindness and compassion. The speaker also discusses the potential for a united South Indian political block, given the commonalities among the southern states, but acknowledges the importance of state autonomy and the challenges of centralization.
🏛️ Federalism, Redistribution, and Political Alliances
The speaker discusses the concept of federalism in the context of India, addressing the need for states to collaborate on a common agenda, especially when facing challenges to their rights. They highlight the issue of unequal redistribution of resources and the negative impact on development. The speaker also touches upon the importance of devolution of power to local bodies for increased accountability and democratic vibrancy. Lastly, they express their reluctance to predict election outcomes, emphasizing the role of voters in shaping governance.
🤷♂️ Surprises in Political Alliances and Predictions
The speaker expresses surprise at the recent break in political alliances, particularly between the AIADMK and the BJP, given the past support provided by the latter. They acknowledge the unpredictable nature of politics and refrain from making specific predictions about election outcomes. The speaker maintains a stance of neutrality, suggesting that the government elected by the people is a reflection of their collective will.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Federalism
💡GDP per capita
💡Infrastructure
💡
💡Social strife
💡Propaganda
💡Democracy
💡Investment
💡Per capita income
💡Religion
💡Delimitation
💡Accountability
Highlights
The speaker's in-laws are proud because they are big fans of the person being interviewed
The speaker has been following the interviewee's work in articles and interviews for a long time
The interviewee's voice is heard more than many Union ministers due to the power of their words and ideas
The speaker challenges the interviewee on criticisms of the Modi government
The interviewee argues that pride and propaganda are not enough - outcomes and improving people's lives matter more
India has not seen the same level of growth as China, even after decades of economic reforms
The interviewee expresses concern about the lack of growth and opportunity cost for India in recent years
Propaganda and pride may be used as a substitute for delivering better jobs and quality of life
The interviewee criticizes the government for divisive rhetoric and not enough delivery on key issues
The interviewee argues that one-party rule, like in China, has downsides and is not a model for India
Democracy allows for diverse voices and the ability to adjust and recalibrate policies as needed
Certain policies should be made at the national level, but others should be determined more locally
The South has higher per capita income due to factors like education, social justice, and empowering women
The South has a different culture and history compared to the North, with a more outward-looking perspective
Religion has been democratized in the South, with people free to follow their faith without conflict
The South has not thought of itself as a unified block, but may need to start considering a common agenda
The speaker has faith in the voters of Tamil Nadu to make thoughtful, rational choices based on the information available
The speaker does not make political predictions, believing that people get the government they deserve
Transcripts
uh welcome and I must say my in-laws are
very proud today uh because I'm married
to a tam million as many know and uh
they are big fans of yours so they're
the most happy that I'm I'm meeting you
uh so hello mother-in-law if you're
watching this on TV um I've been uh I
have
been following what you been saying in
articles in interviews even well before
I was chairing this session and since
last two days I'm obsessed I've seen my
YouTube is only recommending you now
because I've seen every interview you do
have a lot of
opinions uh you were state minister in
Tamil Nadu but I think your voice is
heard more than many Union ministers
also it's true it's true and that is uh
because of the power of your words
that's because the power of your ideas
but I think because in a platform like
this is good to challenge them so we'll
talk about federalism but I I want to
just get right into it
you have lot of views on the Modi
government a
lot now let me just play Devil's
Advocate they'll say I mean amongst the
millions of people who do vote for the
BJP and and also the government s say
listen you've given Pride you've given
you national pride you've given you
Hindu Pride you've given you
infrastructure we're making highways we
made metros we're making airports we
have
schemes Ula aush we have schemes we have
lifted profile of India G20 this that
what is so wrong in that I mean what
what what's so bad I mean can't you just
like appreciate that what you're doing
and and on the other hand you find a lot
of things wrong in the way the
government is run or at least you don't
feel it's the best way to do
things how do you counter this like
pride is there you know growth is there
everything is there now life is
good well uh uh Pride may be there I'm
not sure growth is there so let me put
maybe three points one if you look back
to 1990 I'm not talking about like you
know centuries I'm talking about 30 plus
years ago India and China had roughly
the same GDP per capita right scaling
for the
population there was a uh what we' call
in the markets a global trade which
basically said almost all manufacturing
could be done cheaply and efficiently
and quickly in China in return China was
making lots of profits it was driving
huge investment into its infrastructure
into its economy as well as becoming the
kind of Reserve buyer of the world
buying all these dollars and bonds and
euros and all the stuff and they
accelerated in a way that has made their
per capita GDP about three times R
now you can't get the same kind of
discipline and focus and so forth in a
democracy that you can get in a
communist country which which is
effectively run by one party rule I
agree but at some point we should be
seeing that kind of growth because
that's what our demographics and our
curve should look like so the first
concern I have is the opportunity cost
especially in the last two three years
after pandemic when there is a global
demand for investment locations when
there is a global demand for a trading
partner to replace China that we should
be doing a lot more and could be doing a
lot more and it should show in the
results pride is good but it has to
translate into actual Improvement of
quality of life for people before it's
meaningful otherwise it's just
propaganda right anybody can drive
propaganda outcomes matter so that's my
first concern my second concern is that
I see the propaganda and the pride as a
substitute in a lot of places we are
seeing much much worse outcomes than we
should in terms of equity inclusion
Harmony you know we're seeing social
strife and so forth and I'm almost uh uh
what can I say afraid that this kind of
pride is a substitute for I can't give
you better jobs I can't give you a
better life but you can feel better
because you're above this some you know
in the hierarchy above somebody else and
this kind of disparity and these are
correlated problems because the more you
have
unstable the decision of one person or
one party can change the rule of law or
the rate of tax
or the direction of investment or the
allocation of coal blocks the less
likely that outside investors see this
as a Level Playing Field and less likely
they're going to come both of us have
been in the world of Finance the less
likely they're going to come and invest
in a place where they can't predict what
path outcomes can take so collectively
all of this together I would say too
much rhetoric too much of it is divisive
and not enough delivery I can
encapsulate that in just one uh instance
a good friend of mine tamilan by birth
uh expatriate for
many area uh you may have known him but
I don't want to give his name he came to
Chennai recently after the visit of the
Prime Minister to uh the US and the
visit of the White House and all that
stuff and we we were at a dinner and he
was telling me it felt so good and we
got the seat at the table and you know
we had a State dinner and so I let him
speak for about five or eight minutes
and then I said how many trades came out
of it how many deals came out of it how
many Investments came out of it how is
that going to create more job
opportunity and how many young people
are going to benefit you tell me that I
get excited he happens to come and make
you in India as an expatriate feel
happier and proud that's okay but that's
not really enough excitement for me I
want to see that something concrete came
out of it extra 10 billion extra billion
you know five more companies three more
jobs more free trade something that
results so that's where I would say the
Gap is between me and most people who
think that the government is doing good
job okay you you're self acknowledged
just now in your um argument only that
China's per capita GDP went higher
because if it you have one party you
have one like certain structure in which
you can just make decisions fast uh it
leads to higher per capit income and now
they more than triple of ours I think
it's more than more like four five times
but isn't that the opposite of the
federalism you arguing about in a way
big reform right big National reform
like GST like some major FDI policy
change like any of these big reforms
requires a certain National level
Authority National level of decision
making which is needed on one hand you
have batted vehemently for more
federalism there is federalism it's not
like we are not a federal state you you
have batted for it so much on the other
hand there's the question of national
unity and unity in terms of policymaking
when you talk of investors if every
state there was a time where like
companies were moving plants from Bengal
to Gujarat they're getting kicked out of
one state they're getting kicked out of
another state they're deciding all that
is happening whereas if there is a
national I mean the our counterargument
can be that at at a certain level we
need to present One National policy that
that may not be a bad
thing I don't know there's three or four
questions there so let's unpack that let
me start with the beginning the problem
with one decision making or one party
rule is that the odds of getting it
exactly right are exactly zero so even
if you take China while they had Decades
of tremendous growth now they're paying
the price for it because they've got
overbuilding all their major companies
are going going bankrupt they have this
unofficial credit Market that is
collapsing and there's going to be
serious consequences and pain and there
was a lot of suppression of dissent and
and opinions in the process of getting
there so I for one I'm not saying I want
to see growth at that cost so let me be
very clear I'm not advocating that model
I'm saying I can explain some of the Gap
based on the fact that it's a different
model the second point though is that
there is very little likely Ood that
there is a you know all knowing
allseeing Authority that's the reality
of most human beings we are limited
individuals the notion of democracy is
that a thousand voices should be heard
we should take inputs from everybody and
then we should try and figure out a
policy and then if it doesn't work we
should be able to calibrate recalibrate
and readjust right not because I say so
this is the only way going forward there
are certain things that should be done
at a national level things like foreign
trade things like currency stability
things like international relations
things like regulating of interstate
commerce but if you're going to dictate
things like social policy about who
should get fed and who should you know
get get educated what this is very very
difficult to do in any large country in
the world it doesn't happen in China
despite it being communist they set
macroeconomic policies at the Central
polit Bureau but the city of Shanghai
gives out industrial permits decides
what the environmental rules are runs
its own police force runs its own
Pollution Control Board you know the
city I'm not talking about the state big
Banks like mine I work for a large
International Bank has to get licenses
Province by province there is no pan
China banking license for an
International Bank you have to get state
by state go to the US you go to even
developed countries like Switzerland the
Canton decides whether you can become a
prime permanent resident or a citizen or
not that that County right so all over
the world the notion of democracy is
inextricably linked with the notion of
self-determination move the power closer
to the people not you know three degre
separated who's going to decide how the
water system should work right the water
system should be decided by the local
Authority the corporation of madur then
there's some that should be decided by
the state some things that should be
decided by the union so of course
there's a role for the union but it
cannot be all knowing all
seeing dat how the rest of the country
should work especially in a country like
India that is so diverse you know better
than me the country is diverse not just
because it was broken into States
linguistically not just because it has
different people going back thousands of
years but in the last 50 years forget
the last 50 years in the last 30 years
from liberalization till now the gap
between states has accelerated so drama
atically the per capita income of Tamil
Nadu is four times that of Bihar how is
the same Economic Policy going to be
valid for both of us right yeah we we
have we have disparate outcomes we have
disparate problems we need disparate
Solutions it's very unlikely that one
policy is going to suit everybody in
this country what I actually had that
question why is the South per capita
income much higher are you guys just
smarter no no well I don't think so I I
was no no I was at a conclave um in
Bangalore over the weekend and I was
asked is there a Southern model of
governance and I said I think there is
but if there is a southern model of
governance it's because it's a southern
kind of culture and Society right
because governance is not thrust Upon Us
governance comes based on the people who
elect us and what they expect us to
deliver as elected officials so what is
it that makes the Southern Culture a bit
different right and I think that's so
I'll work backwards we got better
outcomes because we have different
governance we have different governance
because we have a different society and
I can think of at least three components
and this is just you know what I thought
off the top of my head one over
thousands of years we have been a
seafaring outward looking kind of
society right from the the Chola Kingdom
had reached all the way to Laos and
Cambodia so and and you know now in in
the Mad Kil dig we found Roman coins
dating back to you know few hundred BC
so we had always been an international
Outlook kind of global perspective uh
Society much unlike the people who are
getting invaded all the time from the
north and who are very defensive and you
know mind's mind and you stay on that
side more recently about 100 years ago
when all of this was The Madras
presidency this was one of the few
presidencies that was not a congress
government it was a Justice party
government and they ad advocated and and
legislated equal rights for women
compulsory education for all elementary
education back in
1921 communal reservation based on what
percentage of your Society so that every
Community could have a judge and a
collector and a police officer and a a
lawyer so this kind of social inclusion
and empowerment spread across what was
then Madras presidency which is much of
South India except the princely states
it started somewhere in norisa came down
to kanyakumari and went past Bangalore
almost to Bombay so I think that social
justice inclusion empowerment of women
and and i' for if I had to pick one
thing I'd say empowerment of women
giving women equal rights relatively I'm
not saying it's perfect but relatively
equal rights and equal access was
probably one of the driving factors and
then the third thing is what I said
earlier when we did liberalization when
we did globalization in 1990 that's when
the gap really started to accelerate
because what we had was the building
blocks we had the infrastructure to
benefit from this liberalization and
this opening up we had the right mindset
we had the right education levels we had
a lot of English speaking people we had
a lot of connectivity with diaspora who
had immigrated from here and we were
able to leverage that liberalization and
just accelerate up the curve in the case
of Chennai in automobiles in the case of
Bangalore and technology and we were
able to just climb and get to a
different level
and the places that didn't have that
kind of background I think we're not
able to get it that would be my you know
if I had to pick uh few reasons those
would be my reasons yeah that's good I
think and I think the north does have
and I generally mean that a lot to learn
from here I this is a question I'm going
to ask my other panelists as well is
what it's my Natural Curiosity the south
is deeply religious it's very religious
rituals motives temples everything
everywhere
yet hinda politics doesn't work as well
as it does in the north especially when
religion has such so much meaning is it
what is your views on it is it something
to do with because the incomes are
higher but then even in higher per
capita income states in the north it
works quite well some of
them just what is what is your why is it
why doesn't it work as well or is it
just a matter of time uh I want to quote
something my grandfather said back in
the 19 1920s or 30s he said many
people conflate God and religion right a
lot of things are done in the name of
religion which are actually not
compassionate not Humane not
thoughtful and what if God and religion
were the same then attributing all those
things back to God is actually
Blasphemous on God so what I what I
would say is we are
believe in my
constituency if you go down a street
there are probably 10 temples on every
street some of them are private some of
them are owned by the the state because
they were without a clear lineage of
descendants but belief in God doesn't
mean putting somebody else down doesn't
mean that I have to be superior to
somebody so in fact Anna said it per
Anna the founder of our party former
Chief Minister he said to the extent
that a belief in God makes a human being
want to live a better life he fears or
she fears that they accountable to some
other being and one day will have to pay
you know the price for their actions it
actually makes them better persons and
more kind and gentle to their fellow
human beings and in that sense it's not
a bad thing belief can be a good thing
if it makes them calmer gentler nicer
that I think is a South Indian model of
belief I don't think this politics of
weaponizing religion or using religion
to divide people is likely to take hold
anytime soon here mostly because we have
democratized religion if you look back
at least in The Madras presidency and
Tamil Nadu across all parties I give
Equal Credit to the Congress to the
Justice party DMK admk we have
democratized religion and removed the
kind of weaponizing features of it so
that anybody can follow their faith in
their own way without having to conflict
with anybody else okay that's that's
good
do you think these the four Southern
States right they are all very five oh
yes now five sorry I'm my bad telengana
and yes yes after updated yes five
southern states all the more now they
are five while they're all very
different
cultures there is some commonality one
is I think higher per capita
incomes and second is they are all
ignored by the North and the center more
than some of the other St for various
reasons seats what gets to power but
there is no central
body there's no like you know you have a
G20 or a bricks there's no S5 or SS you
know there's nothing which represents
the common cause do you think there is
room for something like that do you
think something like that can actually
make the the voice stronger because
there is
like from the North many people don't
even know the differences in the various
cultures but there is a lot of
difference but there is still a lot of
common elements which justifies having a
block like this what do you
think look I think the higher per capita
GDP is a direct result of a higher
education level weighted average which
is a direct result of Greater inclusion
and social justice and a direct result
of more empowerment of women I think
these are inextricably linked if I had
to pick one variable I would say just
compare the percentage of girls getting
out of elementary school then middle
school then high school then getting
into jobs what age they get married what
age they have their first child these
are the variables that separate the
south from the less developed parts and
surprisingly even from a state like
Gujarat which is developed economically
but socially these indicators are very
bad so then the question is why have we
not really thought about ourselves as a
block because we are the same patriotic
citizens as anybody else and we were
thinking of ourselves really as state to
Center relations incidentally in my view
though I lived abroad for 30 years and I
have not lived outside Tamil Nadu so you
have to take it with the limitations of
my knowledge but if you ask me to pick
in my memory the four greatest
Federalists of all time in India in 75
years
per Kanger
Ki Miss J Alita and T Narendra Modi
greatest Federalist of all time till he
was chief minister of Gujarat till he
was chief minister of Gujarat he was one
of the greatest Federalists of all time
now of course the different story so now
I'm saying if federalism in terms of
states right is is being kind of uh
gutted and is being disemboweled then
maybe the states need to start thinking
together about what is a common agenda
and I'm saying first all states compared
to the union second of course those
states that because of this we have this
real tragedy in our country right like
let me give you the math math of it in
every country in every Federal Society
those that are better off will
contribute more and those that are less
well off will get more from the central
port what happens go yes but most places
in the world that contribution or
redistribution that's what we do with
taxation right within our state we take
more money from those who can pay and we
give it to those who cannot but all
those are supposed to bring people
people closer together this kind of
redistributive function whether it's the
union relative to the states the state
relative to the districts the state
relative to individuals the state
relative to cities but if you look at
India for the last 25 years particularly
the last five Finance commissions the
distributions have kept on getting worse
and
worse less they give back the Richer we
get the more they give to the poorer
States the poorer they get on a relative
basis so it's like throwing money down a
well you're giving this redistribution
in America it helps Montana and Missouri
come up if you take it from New York and
California in China if you take it from
the coastal provinces put it in the
hinter land it helps the hinter land
come up in India we keep on sending the
money and it doesn't do anything in fact
it makes things worse so now the
question is if you're going to go to uh
real democracy you have two basic
problems the first problem most of us in
the South are paying out a lot more
getting out are getting back a lot less
and it's on a trajectory that is going
to become more and more problematic the
second problem because we have Frozen
populationbased delimitations for 50
years starting first with the 42nd
Amendment during emergency then the 84th
Amendment under taj's uh Prime
ministership we are going to find
ourselves in a situation in 26 where
either we are going to now redistrict in
which case States like Tamil Nadu are
going to lose or Kerala the South will
probably lose like 20 or 30 MPS out of
its already small pool because our
populations have you know come much
lower and then the the the the poorer
weaker parts of the country that are
already getting the most money are going
to get many more MPS or you're going to
continue a situation where it's an
uneven democracy where every one and a
half million people in Tamil Nadu or
slightly less in Kerala have an MP but
every 2.1 million people in up have an
MP right so neither of these is a is a
good outcome so at the end I think
history teaches us that when you get
Economic Development one of the things
you should do is devolve Powers right we
did some of that right only after the
1990s we got the payti Raj act we
created the third tier of government we
started devolving Powers since we came
to office two years ago after the six
State Finance commission we've increased
that Devolution we've made the funds go
directly to the local bodies so just as
we say we want Evolution from the union
to us we at the state need to De devolve
from us to the local bodies because the
accountability of elected officials is
the highest at the local body right m
city councelor cannot Escape their
voters because they live in the same 10
streets it's like 8,000 of them I have
250,000 voters right if they really want
to see me it's going to be hard for me
to see everybody in a year even and my
mp has 1 and a half million voters the
odds of direct accountability is very
low in fact I would say one one of the
reasons why the UK
democracy maybe not so now but used to
be so vibrant is that the average MP has
something like 50,000 voters yeah so you
can hold them accountable right so the
more you devolve power to those that can
be held accountable the more thriving a
democracy you'll have the less you'll
have a problem with this kind of
devolution I mean with this delimitation
if the Union's only going to take care
of defense and money management and
Foreign Affairs and you know interstate
trade and these kinds of things surely
all of us want the same thing what does
it matter if I have X MPS or X plus 5
MPS all our interests are aligned across
all states if you start saying they get
to decide how the money split between
the states then it bothers me a lot if
I'm going to have few MPS right that's
that's a good point it's election season
so before I let you go what does it look
like here they've been alliances they've
been broken alliances you probably been
seeing the news
uh what do what do you and not just for
the South even for the national politics
I think you're very eligible to comment
on that how how do you think it's going
to play out in here in this state and in
pan India I know there's a lot of time
left still and I know you can nobody can
predict what will happen but your
current view if it were to happen today
I spent a lot of my career in the
financial markets right and as you know
if there are hundred variables that
drive price action or yield curves at
best you can look at 20 so it's a mugs
game to try and predict outcomes if you
were that smart you'd be much richer
both of us than we are now so I'm not
going to make predictions I'll just say
it uh in a kind of positive way and in a
kind of neutralizing equilibrium way the
positive way I'll say is at the end of
the day the
voters are sophisticated enough I think
about their self-interest at least the
more educated they are the more
sophisticated they are in making their
choices and uh I remember my own we all
shaped or limited only by our experience
I can't imagine things beyond what I've
read or seen or or done right so in my
experience the first time I ran for MLA
I was an unknown face I had a legacy I
had something I won by 4% or something
but it was about a 5% margin to the
state average for my part
I did what I thought was good work for 5
years 5 years later I won by 23
something per and it was about 15% or
18% better than my
state I did got me the result that I got
so I have this faith in the water at
least the voter that I know in Tamil
Nadu that they are thoughtful rational
people who will make choices based on
the information the track record and
their perception of of what is good for
them that's the positive way of looking
at
it the kind of neutralizing equilibrium
is I mean what does it matter what I
think the people get the government they
elect and the government they deserve
whatever they decide is the wisdom of
the people we just live with the
consequences however that affects us so
I'm not in the election prediction game
I'm relatively sanguin in my state that
I think I know how the V will act and
how they will vote how how do you think
it's going to
be the track record of the last few
years gives me Comfort I think we're
going to be okay yeah and how is the
overall I and I don't know how to say it
actually I and Alliance no you can't I'm
I'm I'm a I'm a state politician I don't
opine on National politics I'm I'm not
qualified you just you just commented on
the no no I I can talk about the economy
I can talk about government policy
that's my day job but if you ask me to
make political predictions or analysis
at a national level I'm not equ okay
let's talk about the state level I mean
only because I don't know I don't know
what is in the mind of people in biar or
Rajasthan or jamu I why should I talk
about things I don't know fair enough
fair enough what about over here the AI
DMK just broke off an alliance with the
BJP why do you think that was that a
surprise to you why do you think that
happened and what do you think it'll
have an imp impact on the elections are
you able to answer that no I mean if I
had a good answer I'd give it to you I
don't I mean I I must say I was a bit
surprised because uh I can say from
personal experience that if it hadn't
been for the BJP it's not clear to me
the regime would have losted 5 years
after the passing of Miss jela it was a
very unstable regime I was sitting in
the assembly when a lot of funny things
happened when 11 people voted against
the government but contrary to the
anti-defection law they were never
removed from the house I can remember
Governors negotiating deals you know all
kinds of things that I didn't think were
you know ideal in a democracy happened
and therefore I assumed and uh thought
that people who had benefited would stay
with the people who had given them the
benefit so I was a bit surprised but and
then who am I you know politics makes
for strange B fellows Everything Changes
all the time
[Music]
yeah
h
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