Robin Zeng - Founder and CEO of CATL | In Good Company | Norges Bank Investment Management

Summary

In this interview, Robin Zang, CEO of CATL, the world's largest battery producer, discusses the company's dominance with a 37.5% market share. He attributes the success to meeting market needs with the right technology and products, focusing on innovation rather than seeing others as competitors. Zang emphasizes the importance of understanding electrical chemistry and the challenges of scaling production while maintaining quality. He also highlights the potential for Europe's battery industry and CATL's commitment to renewable energy and sustainability.

Takeaways

• 🔋 **Market Dominance**: CATL holds a significant market share of 37.5% in the battery production industry, making it the world's largest battery producer.
• 🚀 **Product Focus**: CATL's success is attributed to focusing on the right products and technology, meeting market needs and consumer demands.
• 🌿 **Innovation Driven**: The company's philosophy is centered on continuous innovation, particularly in chemical and material science, to improve battery performance.
• 🚗 **Automotive Applications**: CATL's batteries power millions of electric vehicles, including models from Tesla and various Chinese and international car manufacturers.
• ♻️ **Energy Storage**: CATL also produces batteries for energy storage, helping to stabilize supplies from renewable energy sources like wind turbines and solar cells.
• 🏆 **Long-term Commitment**: CATL's journey to market leadership took 12 years, but the team's experience spans a quarter-century, dating back to the early days of lithium-ion batteries for consumer electronics.
• 🌐 **Global Competition**: CATL views itself as its own biggest competitor, focusing on self-improvement rather than seeing other companies as threats.
• 🏭 **Manufacturing Expertise**: CATL's expertise in scaling up production and maintaining high-quality standards is a key differentiator in the battery market.
• 🔬 **Research and Development**: CATL employs over 20,000 engineers and researchers, including hundreds of PhDs, focusing on various aspects of battery technology from materials to software.
• 🌱 **Sustainability**: CATL is committed to contributing to climate change mitigation and sustainability through renewable energy innovations.
• 🌟 **Cultural Emphasis**: The company culture at CATL emphasizes innovation, personal growth, and the collective mission to excel in renewable energy technologies.

Q & A

What is the current market share of CATL in the battery production market?

As of the interview, CATL holds a market share of approximately 37.5%, although Robin Zang, the CEO, corrects this to a precise figure of 37.5%.

What are the two major products that CATL produces?

CATL produces two major types of batteries: one for electric vehicles, which can be found in models like Tesla's Model 3 and Model S, and another for energy storage, particularly for renewable energy sources like wind turbines and solar cells.

How long did it take CATL to reach a 37.5% market share?

It took CATL almost 12 years to reach a 37.5% market share from zero. However, the team's experience in the industry spans a quarter-century, starting with lithium-ion batteries for mobile phones and consumer electronics.

Who does Robin Zang consider CATL's main competitor?

Robin Zang considers the main competitor to be themselves, emphasizing the need for continuous self-improvement, especially in the area of electrochemical materials.

What is the significance of state support in CATL's success?

State support in China is multifaceted, with a focus on quickly responding to consumer demands and rolling out high-quality products. This has helped CATL and other Chinese companies to establish a strong position in the market.

How many people does CATL employ in research and development?

CATL has over 20,000 engineers and talented individuals working in various aspects of battery technology, including basic materials research, cation research, and the development of future chemistries.

What is the most challenging aspect of battery production according to Robin Zang?

The most challenging aspect is understanding the electrochemical system in the real world, predicting future risks, ensuring reliability, and scaling up production while maintaining low costs.

What are Robin Zang's views on the future of battery technology and innovation?

Robin Zang does not see a significant acceleration in innovation. He believes that the industry is looking for substantial innovations and that there will be new chemistries that will emerge, potentially leading to solid-state batteries being a game-changer.

How does CATL approach its supply chain strategy?

CATL carefully understands the advantages of different materials and the future trends in applications to decide on mining investments. They also aim to establish supply chains gradually, with a current focus on China, but with plans to work with countries like Norway for graphite production.

What is CATL's corporate culture according to Robin Zang?

CATL's corporate culture is focused on innovation, especially in renewable energy, and creating a platform to help individuals grow both spiritually and materially. They aim to contribute excellently to human society in terms of renewable energy.

What advice does Robin Zang give to young people in China and Europe?

Robin Zang advises young people to be patient and strive for success, emphasizing that everyone has a chance to achieve their goals.

Outlines

00:00

🔋 Dominance in the Battery Market

Robin Zang, CEO of CATL, the world's largest battery producer, discusses with Nicola Tangen, CEO of the Norwegian wealth fund, how CATL achieved a significant market share of 37.5%. CATL focuses on producing the right products with the right technology to meet market needs, particularly in electric vehicle batteries and energy storage. The company's success is attributed to understanding consumer needs and providing products that align with those requirements. CATL's journey to market dominance took 12 years, but the team's experience spans 25 years, starting with lithium-ion batteries for consumer electronics.

05:02

🚀 Innovation and Scaling Challenges

The conversation continues with the challenges of scaling up production and the importance of innovation. Robin Zang emphasizes that CATL's main competitor is itself, as the company is constantly pushing for new chemical inventions to improve battery performance, especially in areas like low-temperature performance. Zang also discusses the importance of state support in China's rapid development of consumer products and the company's approach to rapid design and production to meet market demands.

10:04

🌐 Global Competition and Talent Pool

Robin Zang talks about the global competition in battery technology, highlighting the significant number of research programs and published papers on battery technology in China. He contrasts this with the situation in the US and Europe, where there are fewer programs and a different focus among students. Zang suggests that to compete, countries like the US and Germany need to invest more in education and research in electrical chemistry. He also discusses the challenges of scaling up battery production and the common mistakes made by European battery makers.

15:07

🔄 Future of Battery Technology

The discussion turns to the future of battery technology, with a focus on solid-state batteries and other innovations. Robin Zang outlines the current limitations of solid-state batteries, particularly at the solid-solid interface, and the need for new materials and processes to overcome these challenges. He also touches on other battery technologies like sodium-ion and condensed metal batteries, and how CATL is working to improve them for future applications.

20:08

🌿 Sustainability and Corporate Culture

Robin Zang shares his views on CATL's corporate culture, which is centered around innovation in renewable energy and creating a platform for individual growth. He discusses the company's commitment to sustainability and reducing carbon emissions, as well as the importance of refining and striving for innovation. Zang also talks about his personal philosophy on wealth and the importance of investing in manufacturing plants in poor areas to support local communities.

25:09

🌱 Personal Growth and Philanthropy

In the final part of the conversation, Robin Zang reflects on his rural upbringing in China and how it shaped his resilience and focus on overcoming difficulties. He discusses his approach to philanthropy, particularly in supporting children in poor areas and investing in manufacturing plants to provide local employment. Zang also shares his advice for young people, emphasizing patience and striving for success.

Keywords

💡CATL

Contemporary Amperex Technology Co. Limited (CATL) is a Chinese battery manufacturer and a global leader in the production of lithium-ion batteries for electric vehicles. In the script, CATL's CEO, Robin Zang, discusses the company's significant market share and its role in the electric vehicle revolution.

💡Market Share

Market share refers to the percentage of the total market that a company or product controls. The transcript mentions CATL's market share being around 37.5%, indicating its dominance in the battery production market for electric vehicles.

💡Electrical Chemistry

Electrical chemistry is a branch of chemistry that deals with the relationship between electricity, electricity-producing chemicals, and chemical reactions. In the context of the video, Robin Zang emphasizes the importance of understanding electrical chemistry for developing new battery technologies.

💡Battery Technology

Battery technology encompasses the science and engineering of creating devices that store energy in chemical form for use in various applications. The video discusses CATL's advancements in battery technology, particularly for electric vehicles and energy storage.

💡Renewable Energy

Renewable energy refers to energy sources that are naturally replenished on a human timescale, such as wind, solar, and hydroelectric power. The script highlights CATL's efforts to support renewable energy through the production of batteries that store energy from these sources.

💡Energy Storage

Energy storage is the capture of energy produced at one time for use at a later time. In the video, Robin Zang talks about CATL's role in developing batteries for energy storage, which is crucial for stabilizing power from renewable sources like wind and solar.

💡Innovation

Innovation refers to the process of translating an idea or invention into a good or service that creates value or for which customers will pay. Throughout the script, Robin Zang stresses the importance of innovation in battery technology to stay competitive and meet consumer demands.

💡Lithium-ion Phosphate

Lithium-ion phosphate is a type of lithium-ion battery that uses lithium iron phosphate as the cathode material. The script mentions this chemistry as one of the materials CATL uses in its batteries, known for its safety and longevity.

💡Nickel-Cobalt-Manganese (NCM)

Nickel-Cobalt-Manganese is a type of lithium-ion battery that uses a combination of nickel, cobalt, and manganese for the cathode material. The video discusses CATL's work on reducing the use of cobalt in NCM batteries to make them more cost-effective and sustainable.

💡Supply Chain

A supply chain is the network of organizations, people, activities, information, and resources involved in moving a product from supplier to customer. The script discusses CATL's supply chain strategy, including owning lithium mines and establishing factories to ensure the availability of raw materials for battery production.

💡Solid-State Batteries

Solid-state batteries are a type of battery that uses solid electrodes and a solid electrolyte. They are considered a next-generation technology with the potential for higher energy density and safety. Robin Zang mentions the challenges and potential of solid-state batteries in the script.

Highlights

Robin Zang, CEO of CATL, discusses the company's dominance in the battery market with a 37.5% share.

CATL's success attributed to producing the right products with the right technology to meet market needs.

CATL's battery products are used in electric vehicles like Tesla Model 3 and various Chinese car brands.

The company also produces batteries for energy storage to stabilize renewable energy supplies.

CATL took 12 years to reach a 37.5% market share, with roots in lithium-ion battery technology dating back 25 years.

Robin Zang views the company's biggest competitor as itself, focusing on self-improvement and innovation.

CATL encourages other companies to join the battery industry, valuing genuine innovation over copycat products.

State support in China has been crucial for CATL's rapid design and production capabilities.

CATL has over 20,000 engineers focused on various aspects of battery technology, including material research and AI for science.

China leads in battery technology research with a significant number of widely cited papers.

CATL's competitive advantage comes from understanding electrical chemistry and predicting future material needs.

Scaling battery production is challenging due to the complexity of ensuring quality and safety at scale.

CATL sees potential for Europe to become a leader in battery production with the right design and process.

The company is exploring solid-state batteries but identifies several technical challenges that need to be overcome.

CATL is also developing sodium-ion batteries for applications requiring lower energy density.

The key to a successful supply chain is understanding material trends and making strategic investments.

CATL's corporate culture focuses on innovation, personal growth, and contributing to renewable energy.

Robin Zang's personal philosophy includes sharing wealth, staying physically strong, and finding successors.

CATL's founder grew up in rural China, which instilled a strong work ethic and a desire to contribute to society.

Advice to young people is to be patient, strive for success, and focus on innovation rather than quick wealth.

Transcripts

[Music]

hi everybody and welcome to in Good

Company I'm Nicola tangan and the CEO of

the Norwegian wealth fund and today we

have an incredible guest Robin Zang the

founder and CEO of catl the world

largest battery producer now it's not

only the world largest it's got a

whopping 40% of this Mega Market wow so

Robin how did this come about how is it

possible to end up with 40% of such a

big Market no no not not yet 40% okay to

be correct it's

37.5% something that less than 40 but I

think the most important is L products

definitely the market need a lot of

right products to do the uh

immobility so right product you need the

right uh technology so in our world is

more like a ra chemical ra material

which really have a good product

so this group product is a finished to

the purpose of the consumer that's why

consumer really love that that's why the

customers

alls would like to make these products

and put this product into their car

that's why we can power the millions of

cars so um despite your uh incredible

Market position there may be some

listeners who don't uh know what your

products are so just uh very briefly

what type of products do you have we

have h two major product one is the

battery we call a battery for the

immobility so you can have the product

in the Tesla's car model 3 Model one so

in all the Chinese car makers or also in

many of omm's cars so this battery we

call to power the whole car so is a b b

another product is we make a battery for

the energy storage you know all the

renewable energy like a wind turbine and

the solar cell that's why you need a a

storage battery who can storage regulate

the uh unstabled renewable energy

supplies which make this energy Supply

become very stable very predictable and

very Fitness to the industry use and

other use what's been the main steps uh

from uh going from kind of zero to uh

37.5% world market share how long has it

taken you yeah we take almost uh 12

years to from zero to the to this uh

37.5% the major is not because of this

this only this 12 years because our team

have been working on this industry for

now it's a quarter Century 25 years ago

we start business with this L ion

battery which is definitely is for the

mobile phone for The Notebook for the

all the consumer electronic applications

so we have the similar technology from

from 25 years ago who do you consider

your competitors uh today I think uh the

competitor is ourself because we don't

have uh we still have a lot of to do

especially on the uh electrical chemical

side you know the material today we

still in Castle material uh like lium

ion phosphate and the NCM and the

material still on the quy some

silicon most important is the new

chemistries we have to invent so only

invent the new chemistries can also fit

more usage more requirement from

consumer for example low temperature

performance you say that uh your

competitor is yourself are you not

worried about any other competitors I

don't consider them as a competitors

actually we love to have more people

join in this journey which you really

can have the inventions it's not a

copycat it's a inventions which is can

help to make the consumer make the

customer happy with their real good

performance of the products and

Technologies because only the

competitions in the invention

competitions in the creativity which can

help this industry very healthy to grow

in the Futures and how important is uh

uh State support in getting uh to that

type of position but in China is uh more

more complicated because uh Chinese try

to make a lot of products which fit to

the consumer usage so uh Chinese o more

like a we we we call it hearing more the

request from the consumer then they make

it a good design

faster than anyone else in the in the

world that's why they can roll out a lot

of good products so in order to support

the trines OEM on this aspect seat have

been you know being well trained to how

to quick faster grass and how to quick

faster to remark the production to

support that the cost performance

effectively and the quality high quality

products to our customer let's the whole

story make a difference you know it's

complicated that's why it's good that

you have a PhD but um um how many people

have you got in uh in research and

development yeah we have more than

20,000 uh people engineer very good

talents in my uh area because uh uh they

need a focus on many aspects but I mean

20 20,000 is nearly as many people that

live in my hometown so what do they do

uh least 20,000 people is uh some people

is focus on the basic material

structures some people is focus on

cations some people is focus on the

interation of the materials some people

is focus on the future chemistry for

example we call AI for Science and need

to use artificial intellig to try to

find out the next revolutionary material

and the chemical system beyond the LM

ions we need to have some research guide

on the you know on the battery

Management systems and softwares all

together like 20

21,000 uh Engineers they have uh sever

hundred phds you know many many Masters

so loan kids have been working here

for average more than three or five

years they they have become very good T

and I hope uh they can have more

Innovations in the future to help the

the human uh climate changing focus on

these uh uh renewable energies the

talent pool you have uh is incredible

right I saw that two out of three widely

cited papers on Battery Technology came

out of China uh only 12% coming out of

the US also you in China have more than

50 graduate programs in batteries

compared to only a few uh in the US so

um how how can the rest of the world

possibly compete with you almost 12

years ago uh when the Angela M visit

China we have some discussions among

that in that time the German people

already thinking about how why they

cannot make a good batteries because

they make a very good engines they make

a very good gear boss so uh you know

German people think they can make a very

good batteries that's why when we have

some discussions on that I told them

fortunately unfortunately is uh China

have a lot of uh universi still working

on the electrical chemical so usually

electrical chemistry is uh is very low

end people looking at because if you

graduate from electrical chemistry you

cannot find a good job you know you can

only find uh people for the L abilities

you only find a job for the antic cions

so all this kind of uh low pay job

that's why uh they being very old uh uh

Theory but uh I know United States a lot

of good universities and the students

they don't want to focus on this they

want to focus on finance focus on the uh

semiconductors yeah they need to get a

higher pay from the leas but the China

there's a lot of you know students who

uh have to go into University that's why

they found more M study on the

electrical chemistries that's why we

have a lot of talents compared to us

compared to Germany so if us Germany

want to catch up or want to overtake in

the bar side probably they have to

startop from

the uh education have you got a view on

the amount of talent we have in

Norway uh I think all 20,000 people in

your hometown is all talents so we need

to find out what kind of talents to F

what kind of use may not be electrical

chemistry what's the most difficult

thing is it to uh uh to invent a battery

or is it the scaling of battery

production you know is it more difficult

to make one or to make a thousand so

most difficult things is understanding

of electrical chemical system in the

real world and uh other things is follow

is like a as I mentioned you have to

last 20 25 years let's TR how you

predict that and uh accurately A cation

test to indicate is already can reach

that kind of level uh is another

difficulty in reliabilities so and the

scale up uh Productions and you know low

cost everyone looking for very low cost

battery because they always compare the

battery with the Gathering engine

internal combustion engine which have

developed more than 100 years optimize

and optimized that's why they push too

much burden on the

batteries it just seems like um uh in

Europe there is such a problem scaling

up production is there one common thing

that's particularly difficult here I

talk to the many people European battery

maker CEO W canot make a a good product

it's because they have a wrong design

and secondly they have a wrong process

thirdly they have a wrong equipments how

can they scale up if they want to scale

up a l they would be have a you problem

you utilization problem and later on

there will be a Rel reliability problem

and two year or 3 years later there will

be a safety problem so almost all

mistake together so I don't know how

that doesn't sound so good but if we

start with the first one when you said

they got the wrong design what do you

mean yes stuff from the wrong design it

means they if they don't understand the

electrical chemistry or side reation as

I mentioned the design will be wrong

they never cover the risk of the future

risk that's why the performance testing

in one day looks good then you want to

scale up then you want to put the

process the process never cover what you

need in the future what are the

applications for European battery

production then given what you saying

where do you think Europe is going to be

in 10 years time for the battery

application side we we we we just tell

about at Le immobility and the boat also

and ioto also uh even a bullly TR and

the and the kai is definitely since in

Norway is definitely a very Advanced uh

Nations for this renewable energy maybe

we can work together to make a planning

to make a Norway the whole Norway become

a zero carbon you know Society so I have

a confidence how to mapping up

electricity zeroc carbon is important

you have almost 90% Hydro power right

then you add up another 10% maybe from

the winter by from the from the sea and

uh and another size is uh immobilities

your passenger car penetration you know

already 90 95% of the new cars then we

can also can help you to make these

trucks to be zero carbon by our swapping

battery system and also we can make it a

PT electrifications and also can help

also even the westel uh with the we call

the rer standard so we can planning

together to make a whole Norway

as a number one in the world to be the

zero carbon technology renewable energy

nations in the world I think it take

around 10 years in 2025 what togethera

will be make it and also you would be

very happy to have a lot of

income from all this kind of different

uh you know different

things well uh sounds very interesting

unfortunately it's above my pay grade

it's not my decision I only invest money

you know and uh of course we happy that

we have invested a lot of money with you

now you've been doing batteries for a

long time do you feel that uh Innovation

is accelerating or decelerating I don't

see too much is actually acceleration

you know when the industry is small when

we start from the uh uh uh mobile

phone the technology like a growing like

a a line not as relations but when to

put more money more people inside now

everyone looking for the Innovations so

Innovations big is access relate and uh

we believe there will be another new

industry a new chemistry come out that's

why uh when we put our product when we

invest our production line we have to

put the production Li have to depreciate

faster the depreciation have to be 5

years otherwise uh we want it so new

things come out so a lot of companies

push kind of solid state batteries it's

a game changer what are the showstoppers

here well I have been taught this for uh

many many times of the different people

uh the basic show stop is a steel lay

steel is the interface solid and solid

interface whenever Castle material with

the

electrolyte so solid electrolyte solid

powder so in anal material or solid

powder solid solid interface definitely

the problem of the

diffusions the speak of the diffusion is

almost uh two others less than a liquid

electroly that's why people have to put

the pressure to put the two solid powder

together very heavy pressures then make

it works but in the real application

days how can you get the the heavy

pressures so that's why it is a

fundamental uh Science and Technology

issues but we have to overcome by

different things different uh different

new invention of the materials and new

invention of the process so it take time

so in terms of Technology Readiness

level I put it at a four level four you

also in sodium ion and condensed metal

batteries how do you view these

Technologies the sodium ion is quite

mature now we already have the

production uh small production to the

some of the car makers the only problem

is the quite a little bit low lower

energy density compared with ion

phosphate today that's why when ion

phosphate is cheaper people tend to

select ion phosphate rather than sodium

ion but we have developing the second

generation of sodium ion which can be a

very good compared with the first

generation so we believe it will be a 20

to 30% replacement of lion phosphate in

a smaller car on the shorter range of

the cars at the initial stage as of the

that's matter battery is uh I'm proud of

that because uh if it is very good in

imoto application is a very expensive

today and uh we are working hard on that

try to make it uh you know maybe uh two

times compared today or 1.5 times so we

can use this battery to the very highend

car which should need energy density uh

for the speed on the higher range when

you look at your process and so on

what's the key to your your successful

supply chain I mean you for instance own

your own lithium mine right what are

your uh advantages in when you look at

your supply chain usually uh people have

to look at a Supply Chain by the

applications for example uh several

years ago people say wow Niel cobal is

very important because the battery will

going into big applications that's why

you need to have a invest in nickel you

especially in the cobal mining but they

don't understand is we can have uh

making the structure change inovations

to reduce the cobal applications so

cobal from 33% reduced to

3% and also even now we can remove the

cobal then we use the ion phosphate then

the cobal become zero nickel become zero

so the only the technology people who

understand the trend of the developing

applications in the future who to know

who to choose what kind of uh mining is

a good mining Investments that probably

is our advantage so we have to very

carefully understand the advantage of

the different material and especially

where chemistry system who will be the

winner then we can judge and how do you

benefit from this when you set of

factories in Europe I have two Factory

in Europe one is in Germany now one is

in uh uh Hungary now the supply chain we

establish the uh supply chain gradually

now still majority from China That's why

for example in Norway we definitely we

can work together for because you have a

very low cost of the hydro Powers so we

can make graph graphite together so you

know graphite is a one of the most

important is the energy consumption

changing t a bit uh energy storage how

do you see that market developing uh

energy storage uh in my mind is uh is a

similar or maybe half maybe half size of

Transportation but energ storage is more

difficult than Transportation you know

because they lasting they need lasting

20 25 years but many people think this

is easier because they say this is a

stationary p no don't move uh yes or no

number two is the en story usually is a

huge pack for example One gwatt battery

pack whole system it contains at least

1.5 million cells if think about 1.5

million cells plus all the electronics

Mechanicals somal managements put into

the system and plus in this software the

whole 1 GW hour batteries energy storage

system contains maybe 7 to maybe 9

million of the components similar as the

Bing 787 so when you control your

quality in the one out of the pp PPM

that means every day you have the

product you have the components a

problem you have to maintain that you

have to repair that you have a lot of

maintenance cost in the future and also

degradation is differ consistency is

very very difficult to control that's

why for C we want to put the battery

manufacturing quality up to PPP level

one parts per billion so three orders

increase the quality level to fit for

the usage of this energy storage so it's

difficult yeah every if you everyone

tell you it's good you know 10 years

later they to pay maybe 5 years later

they have to pay a lot of money how much

time do you spend on the corpor culture

at catl what do you think defines the

the culture compared to other companies

uh our culture is uh uh we have a wish

we try to be a very innov Innovative uh

technology company in the world

especially focus on the renewable energy

and try to do the excellent contribution

to the Human Society in renewable energy

IES on the other hand we try to create a

platform which help the individuals to

fight to grow their spirit and material

well-being actually is money so we need

to give them the more St options and

also help them to really fighting for

the grow uh especially Innovations and

also the confidence bys become a better

man the focus on the renewable energy so

people people believe very meaningful in

this journey especially working in SEO

now it's one uh 15 million cars uh 15

million cars in the world powered by

Seattle beries so think about that you

already help to reduce a lot of carbon

on the other hand we are keep on doing

these uh Innovations to help the climate

change and also sustainability for the

for the humans development uh we try to

gain the same vision and uh also uh we

are using also Chinese uh uh culture we

call the refine so everyone have to

Define themsel and enable others then uh

Drive Innovation so we

always we always uh how to say

successfully uh in introduce Chinese

traditional thinking of refine enable

and uh strive innovation and Robin how

are you still trying to refine the way

you work for me there's two way one is

my My Philosophy I don't want to be the

I don't want to be the rich guy in the

richest guy or whatever it doesn't

meaning so I want to uh share that this

uh rich or wealthy to many peoples to

try to create the good so Society

especially for the sustainability this

is a number one refine for my my view on

my uh uh uh wealthy second is uh

I need to refine myself to be more

stronger body you know otherwise it's

always tired know you cannot fight the

patient is very important otherwise

cannot lasting for longer the certain

things I'm now trying very hard to find

the successors so this is three three

things is in my mind now is my more top

priorities so uh Robin I believe you and

I we share one thing in common we both

uh sleep a bit in the middle of the day

we take a a little nap in the office yes

this is a No Time usually we sleep maybe

30 minutes in office yes when during the

day do you sleep 1:00 p.m. uh something

like that start sleeping and maybe 30

minutes it's good enough to recover and

what does that do to you you become a

more you know energetic maybe the body

is physically needed how long do you

work in the evening I work

until 12 12:00 around that 12 12:30

because usually the whole days working

sleeping is not really you have to you

know uh listen the the the the the some

the information message from overse

especially you're running International

companies you you you have uh

information across the you know the 24

hours across Cloud but you have to pick

up the right things and also uh yeah I'm

I'm happy to do that uh basically no not

much problem but I need to do exercise

my daughter told me more you grew up in

a rural China right in uh ning yes what

um what do you think that has done to

you as a person to come from a rural

Place moving being very successful how

has it helped you in your business we

have uh very difficult economics and my

hometown is very poor so uh for me is in

the day one I think uh we are we have

confidence uh because we believe we can

overcome all the difficulties once we

have a chance number two is we we have a

very strong mind we are not easy to be

you know bat anywhere because we have

experience number three is we are not

much too much looking at the the wealth

is because we have experienc so poor and

we are we have no problem on that so uh

we we say that if people almost told me

say Robin why don't you enjoy your life

life you know you can buy a yard and

know say for me is there is a not much

joy you know we have to overcome the

difficulties to do something great to to

support people poor people and also

support the Le renewable energy in the

in the world he would be very happy so

uh usually I uh I like to invest the the

the manufacturing plant in the in the

related poor area what kind of projects

to your support for my donation is

usually go to this very very poor the

children we donate some money for them

to like have some people to care just

talk touch or you know play together so

I join some uh uh uh international

program for the children I believe if we

can um C can invest the manufacturing PL

in some poor area so their family no

need to move out to come come out to the

you know uh big city to work to leave

the children in the hometown so that's

why we invest the the manufacturing

place in guo and man in h all these

areas to help them so such kind of

things is for me is much happier and may

me more stronger in the in the in the

rural area when you meet young Chinese

people what advice do you give them my

advice is uh be patient strive because

you have your chance if you were to give

advice to young people in Europe and the

US what would you tell them I think is

similar usually today's young kids want

to have be become rich very fast right

so be patient but strive everyone have a

chance I believe Robin it's been uh a

tremendous talking to you it's

incredible what you have achieved and I

have to say I am uh I am pretty happy

I'm uh not your

competitor thanks a million

oh