Lets Expose the Scam and Scammers Trying to Ruin Futures PropFirms
Summary
TLDRIn this video, Mighty Ox addresses the recent ban on treasury trading by Apex, attributing it to scammers exploiting the system for profit. The host outlines the scam, discusses Apex's heavy-handed response and its PR missteps, and speculates on the future of prop trading firms, suggesting stricter policies and a move towards more live trading. The video also calls out a specific individual, 'Grande,' as a key figure in the scam, urging the community to be vigilant and not to emulate such fraudulent practices.
Takeaways
- 🚩 Apex trading platform has banned the trading of all treasury bonds due to scamming activities.
- 💡 The ban was a response to a scam known as 'treasury sim manipulation', which exploits the simulated trading environment.
- 📢 Apex's communication regarding the ban was poor, with no mass email or notification sent to users, leading to negative public relations.
- 👤 Scammers are targeting prop trading firms that allow many accounts and rarely transition traders to live markets.
- 💼 The scammers aim to avoid live trading and manipulate simulated fills for illegitimate gains.
- 🔍 The speaker will notify other trading firms that might be vulnerable to this scam to protect the trading community.
- 🚫 The actions of scammers have led to increased scrutiny and changes in the prop trading industry, including stricter live trading requirements.
- 🤔 The speaker speculates that the industry may shift towards a model that offers fewer simulated accounts and quicker transitions to live trading.
- 👥 A specific scammer, referred to as 'Grande', is called out for his involvement in the manipulation and is believed to be part of a larger group causing issues.
- 🔑 The speaker advises against trying to learn the scam techniques to exploit other firms, emphasizing the negative impact on the trading community.
Q & A
Why did Apex ban trading of certain bonds?
-Apex banned trading of certain bonds due to scammers exploiting a glitch in the simulated trading environment to make illegitimate gains.
What did the scammers exploit to make gains?
-The scammers exploited a glitch that allowed trades to be filled at off-market prices or prices that did not exist at the time, resulting in significant illegitimate profits.
How did the scammers operate?
-Scammers operated by opening multiple accounts, manipulating simulated fills during illiquid times, and trading for other people without their knowledge.
What was the role of the individual named 'Grande' in the scam?
-Grande is considered one of the ringleaders of the scam. He was involved in manipulating simulated fills and trying to avoid going live to continue his fraudulent activities.
Why did Apex start requiring video requests from traders?
-Apex started requiring video requests to ensure that the traders were genuine and not scammers manipulating accounts, as part of their response to the scam.
What was the impact of the scam on legitimate traders?
-The scam led to Apex banning certain types of bond trading, which negatively impacted legitimate traders who relied on those instruments for their trading strategies.
What changes does the speaker anticipate in the prop trading industry due to these events?
-The speaker anticipates that prop trading firms will become stricter, with fewer firms offering multiple simulated accounts and more moving towards a trade-day or earn-trade model.
What was the speaker's opinion on Apex's handling of the situation?
-The speaker criticized Apex for their heavy-handed and poorly communicated approach to the situation, which led to bad PR and potential harm to their reputation.
Why did other firms besides Apex also ban or restrict certain types of trading?
-Other firms may have banned or restricted certain types of trading to prevent similar scams from happening on their platforms and to protect their own reputations.
What actions did the speaker take to address the scam issue?
-The speaker outed one of the scammers, notified other prop trading firms about the issue, and encouraged the community to be vigilant against scammers to prevent further damage.
What does the speaker suggest for the future of traders affected by the ban on bonds?
-The speaker suggests that affected traders may need to adapt their strategies or find other firms that still allow the trading of bonds, while also warning against trying to exploit systems.
Outlines
🚩 Introduction to Apex's Ban on Treasury Trading
The speaker, Mighty Ox, opens the video by addressing the recent decision by Apex to ban all trading of treasuries such as UBZ, BZN, and others on their platform. He criticizes Apex for their lack of communication regarding the ban, noting that it was poorly publicized with just an updated help article and no mass email to users. Mighty Ox also hints at a deeper issue behind the ban, suggesting that it's related to scam activities in the trading community.
💸 Scammers Disrupt Futures Prop Trading
Mighty Ox delves into the reason behind Apex's ban on treasury trading, attributing it to a scam known as the 'treasury sim manipulation scam'. He explains that scammers have been exploiting a glitch in the simulated trading environment to make illegitimate gains. The speaker reads from an Apex support email that clarifies the ban was due to this scam, which involved trading at off-market prices. He also mentions that other firms might follow suit in banning or restricting certain activities to prevent similar scams.
🔍 Identifying and Outing the Scammers
The speaker discusses how scammers target prop trading firms that allow many accounts and rarely transition traders to live markets. He shares his intention to notify other firms that might be at risk from these scammers. Mighty Ox also recounts his interactions with a suspected scammer named 'Grande', who he believes is part of a group causing issues in the trading community. He provides examples of how this individual has tried to avoid going live and manipulate the system.
📉 The Impact of Scamming on the Trading Industry
Mighty Ox speculates on the broader implications of the scamming activities on the trading industry. He suggests that Apex's actions might lead to changes in the industry, such as faster transitions to live trading and stricter account management. He also predicts that the number of firms offering multiple simulated accounts might decrease, leading to a shift towards a more conservative 'earn your trade' model.
🛑 Conclusion and a Call to Action
In the conclusion, Mighty Ox summarizes the situation and calls out the scammers for ruining the trading experience for others. He urges viewers to be vigilant and not to emulate the scammers' tactics. The speaker also invites viewers to join discussions on social media and his live streams to further discuss the implications of these events on the trading community.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Mighty Ox Trading
💡Apex
💡Bond Traders
💡Scammers
💡Simulated Trading
💡Treasury Bonds
💡PR Nightmare
💡Prop Trading
💡Live Trading
💡Payout Requests
💡Discord
Highlights
Apex has banned all trading of the treasuries ubz bzn.
Apex's decision to ban bonds was communicated poorly, with no mass email sent to users.
The ban on treasuries is due to a scam involving simulated environment manipulation for illegitimate gains.
Scammers have been exploiting a glitch in the system to make tens of thousands of dollars.
Scammers target prop trading firms that allow many accounts and rarely transition to live trading.
The speaker will notify other trading firms that might be victims of this scam.
Scammers have caused additional security measures, such as video requests, to be implemented.
The speaker speculates that Apex and other firms may start moving traders to live accounts faster.
The speaker blames a specific individual, 'Grande', and his group for causing issues within Apex.
Grande was previously involved in a scam that led to account denials by another firm, Lelu.
The speaker shares a conversation with Grande, revealing his intentions to avoid going live.
The speaker predicts that the prop trading industry will move towards a model that transitions to live trading more quickly.
The speaker warns that legitimate bond traders will be negatively impacted by the ban.
The speaker calls out scammers and encourages the community not to figure out their methods to exploit other firms.
The speaker reflects on the potential future of the prop trading industry and the impact of recent events.
Transcripts
the following video is proudly presented
by Min Ox
trading hello everyone and welcome to
Mighty Ox trading of course I am the
mighty Ox in today's video we're going
to talk about the um events from
today what caused the events from today
and how scammers are trying to ruin
Futures prop trading and we're going to
call out those scammers
and even name and shame one so let's get
started by the way yes I know my
lighting sucks I apologize I'm been
working on fixing it sometime this month
I don't do enough of these videos to
invest in lighting but I guess I got to
invest in lighting anyway enough of
that today people woke up Bond Traders
woke up went to trade their Bonds on
apex and found out that they could no
longer trade bonds Apex has banned all
all trading of the treasuries ubz bzn
and the other two that I can't remember
right now all five I don't know if
they've banned the micros I don't know
know if they had the micro treasuries
CFT might have like convinced them never
to add them but anyway so no more
treasury trading on
apex now before I go into the wise that
happened and why Apex and a couple other
firms have have acted like they have
recently
before I act like I'm excusing any of
that because I'm not let's talk about
Apex I'm going to be giving you reasons
why Apex has done a lot of what they've
done over the past couple months but it
does not excuse Apex in my opinion on
how they have done
it they have come in way too
heavy-handed it is very bad PR how
they've been handling this today was
very bad PR nobody knew that bonds had
been
banned it a help article was updated 3
days ago that was it a mass email should
have been sent to everybody I used to
get emails every day of Apex advertising
I used to get text messages from Apex
advertising their sales so I know they
know how to send mass emails mass
communication nothing the fact that they
did nothing to communicate this was just
another big black eye to
Apex again I'm going to go through some
of the reasons why you've seen some of
the changes on apex over the last couple
months but again I am not excusing how
they have handled
this and and it's just been a PR
Nightmare and
I be it's going to be interesting to see
how and if they can recover from this so
with that said let's get into the meat
of this whole issue so why did they ban
treasuries one word
scammers the treasury Sim manipulation
scam now I don't know exactly how this
works don't know I'm not that
smart but I learned of this scam back I
know almost six months ago remember when
Liu started Banning a whole bunch of
people now a lot of what Liu did was
scammy too but there was a group of
people involved in in some of that that
were legitimately banned by lelu because
they were manipulating Sim phills during
illiquid times
on Bonds on treasuries guess I shouldn't
call them Bonds on
treasuries and you know I talked with
Scott from leelu Scott Steve no whoever
it is leelu see Chris why am I thinking
Scott Chris from leelu the CEO of leelu
and he told me there was a group
that were manipulating
sfils and that he he was working with
rhythmic to you know get a case against
them and was going to notify other
companies whether other companies were
notified whether that's how Apex found
out that this was happening or if they
figured it out on their own I don't know
so but this is a you know a known thing
that's been going on for a while now Leo
figured it out now Apex figured it out
fidus I don't know if I pronounce ing
them right they must have figured it out
because they bed uh they banned Bond
scalping a month or so ago month or two
so they figured it out so what exactly
is a scam well you know what even if I
didn't know how to do it I wouldn't tell
you how to do it because I don't want
anyone any other Bad
actors
but let me see here I have it
here I put this together really
quick so I apologize if if I bring up
any of the wrong images no that's the
wrong image I don't know what I do with
it I might not have done it anyway okay
so let me just read it
off this is what Apex sent in a support
email asking why the treasuries were
banned we sincerely apologize blah blah
blah Please be aware that an issue was
identified and reported by our partners
regarding the potential for erroneous
trade fills in the bond markets this
particular issue which only impacts the
simulated environment would in certain
circumstances allow trades to be failed
at off market prices and in some
instances where price did not exist at
that time it is clear from the data
certain individuals have been exploit
this glitch for illegitimate gains these
actions are in direct contradiction to
the rules of the performance account and
the spirit of the trader
evaluation as the end goal of Trader
evaluation and performance assessment is
to prepare a community for the time when
they'll be risking real money out are
theirs in the live market we have the
responsibility to ensure the products we
offer replicate as closely as possible
real life trading
situations as the issue reported is
counter to those goals and the broader
benefits of our community and the
presentation for live trading we have no
choice but to delist bonds from both
trade of a and rhythmic systems at this
time we have no plans for re relisting
bonds of course we regret deeply of any
disruption blah blah
blah
so that's why Bonds
were uh delisted from
Apex so long story short scammers
figured out a way to exploit this and
they have been for and it's not for
little amounts it's not for $100 $200
they're doing 20
accounts multiple contracts tens of
thousands of
dollars tens of thousands of
dollars and this is why and we'll go
into more of this here in a minute but
so this is
why bonds have now been restricted on
apex and you might end up seeing
restricted other places as well if they
can't get a handle on
this so what are the scammers looking
for and I have a misspelling on that
graphic what are they leing for well
like if they got to go to the lou they
got to go to the anyway like I said I
put this together and really quickly
usually takes me like 38 days to put
together video and I put this together
in like two hours so
anyway they look for props that allow a
lot of
accounts
so know words 20 from Apex 20 from lelu
20 you know the the other
ones you know there's other ones out
there fidus flexi and and ft and boox
all allow more than 10 and they look for
props that rarely or never put people on
Live accounts that hit the live
market they don't want live trading and
I'll show you an example of what I would
consider the ring leader I can't say
it's the ring leader for sure but he's
always involved I'll show you example of
how he talks about never wanting to go
live here in a minute so because of this
I will be
notifying uh fast trck I will be
notifying flexi I will be notifying
bolox I will be notifying any others
that could be victim of this scam
because now that these guys have been
outed um by Apex and lelu they're going
to be looking for others and I know he's
already trading at ftt and ftt has
already been notified I sent Sage a
message
tonight I gave him all the information I
told him I'll send them the link to this
video after I'm done but sage has been
notified
so hopefully they'll you know be able to
cover what's going on
there and so I looking to weed out the
scammers because in my opinion they are
causing all our issues so before we go
in who are the scammers because I didn't
put it on the thing you all the those
video uh requests from Apex you want to
know why those started because these
scammers not only do they manipulate
these Sim
fills but Chris melu
inform me they were also trading each
other's accounts or they would find
other people that would didn't know how
to trade and say
hey let's let us use you know somehow
with their computer whether I don't know
connecting through whatever
uh forget those those ways you can
connect to through other people's
computers I don't know exactly how
they're doing it but they're trading for
other people as well so that's why
everyone started getting video requests
because you you had to prove you were
actually TR
so
again these guys have caused all the
issues you've seen coming out of Apex
shouldn't say all the issues again Apex
has overreacted to this bad PR I'm not
taking the the stress off of Apex on on
their part of
this I mean one could argue that they
should have been putting people live
faster so this didn't happen I won't go
into that whole thing we can talk about
that another day seems like that's their
goal now with the emails that went out
today telling people that they're going
to evaluate them over the next 30 days
for move the live so I think we will see
faster moving the live on apex and
probably other places as well but we'll
talk about more of that so who should we
blame I don't know all the names I know
there's groups in various discords and I
will say this guy was in my Discord this
is who I consider the ring leaner of the
gang I don't know if he is or not but
he's everywhere that this is
happening his name is
Grande I don't know it's French we're
going to call him Grande and you can see
here this is DMS with me back in a
March right when the a um sorry leelu
situation was going
on and he was so upset because leelu
wasn't paying him he was they owe him
like you know 50 Grand etc
etc and you can see how
when I first was talking to
him I didn't realize who he was at first
so let's go back a year from here or two
years actually summer of 2022 I am a mod
on ear trade and we just started hearing
about Apex
denying hadn't heard about Apex denying
anybody until this situation came up
denied a guy named constant and his
girlfriend and Grande and constant came
into the earn to trade server to
complain about Apex
darl actually did a video about this
situation so I don't know how Apex ended
up getting scammed again about this
because they caught it once before I'm
assuming it was the same thing maybe it
wasn't I didn't go back and try to find
the video because I personally had
enough of Apex videos
but you know Grande was in there
complaining complaining they they didn't
pay me they didn't pay they didn't pay
blah blah blah and I said you know
enough of this go if you're going to
keep complaining I'm going to ban you I
think I did ban him and he forgot I
banned them
and so fast forward you know we I
started having this conversation when
the whole Leo stuff was coming up and I
put out that Leu about that video about
Leu being a scam so first I'm talking to
him you know thinking he's a victim but
you can see how he talks about here he
says do you have any idea if Apex puts
people alive at some point and if they
do do they pay out every single profit
from the liim
accounts and I you know I told them what
you know what I knew
and he says since I'm in the top 100
Traders from what I've seen from the
merch I've received from them they might
be monitoring my accounts right now
because I was about to ask for 20K
payouts but I heard something about if
they're above 50k they might put me live
so I might just print and ask the
minimum monthly and the day they want to
move me I'll cash out
big and I told them that you know the
one guy knew that they good move to a
live account was after a really big
amount of money and he's right all right
time to just asked for small money
totally trying to make sure he never got
put live then in another conversation
this is after I realized who he was and
after I realized the earn a trade
connection and then Rissa told me that
there were people that were doing this
manipulation Chris was actually wait
willing to tell me the names and I'm
like I don't want to know names I said
number one I I think that violates your
privacy policy number two I just at that
point in time didn't want that
responsibility of
knowing yeah maybe I mean I either way
but you know I realized that this was
one of the guys and it was confirmed by
the way this was one of the guys he told
me right out he was you know denied by
Liu because of this but you can see here
he says I say maybe it's time to go to a
firm that puts people in Live accounts
instead of sim and he comes up with an
excuse well that it' be better to do my
own money then and I was going to do
that after taking K from
leelu my goal is to have a seat at the
CME and go live but here's here's the
kicker but yeah I don't know since I
trade bonds I'm pretty sure bonds are
harder than live SIM for sure so anyway
you will see him now on other discords I
banned him from my Discord after he
started causing issues
and you'll see him now on other discords
and I'm not going to name the Discord
you can go find
him um complaining about how he hasn't
gotten paid from Apex he's been under
investigation now for months blah blah
blah how he's done nothing wrong he's
totally worried now because they told
him he has to start trading something
else he can't trade bonds I don't think
the guy knows how to trade I think the
guy only knows how to manipulate do I
know that for sure no I don't but if a
guy really knows how to trade why
manipulate but my guess is and again
that whole seed on the exchange I bet
you he's probably pulled th thousand
I've seen that he's put in multiple
payout requests
fast trck so I bet you he's pulled out
lots of money and I bet you his group
because he has a group now I'm not going
to name those other names people have
been naming some other names in my
Discord if you really want do that you
know really want to know other names you
come to the Discord do not cause any
trouble though because I will kick you
out or my mods will kick you out as fast
as you
start but so if you want
to you know if you're upset about the
changes that you've seen Apex undergoing
yes partially blame Daron Martin POS
partially
train I'm not talking now partially
blame John Skelton or Mark
Skelton blame Apex for how they've
handled it but blame this guy and his
group for causing the issues in the
first
place and you know that's just straight
up facts
people always find a way to ruin things
they and everything else you know you
can say what you want about the Sim
model of prop firms I there are some
people that always thought well there's
no way that can stay profitable
sustainable but it did because Traders
are
bad and my opinion nothing would have
changed with
Apex if people didn't try and start
taking advantage of the
system so now I expect I expect you're
going to start seeing Apex changes I
mean you already are you're seeing going
to see more people move the Live
accounts I wouldn't be surprised and I
know nothing I know nothing about
anything coming up I wouldn't be
surprised if you see the number of
accounts decreased I don't know anything
I that's just my guessing my my future
you know looking into a crystal
ball and I think you'll see other firms
start doing the same I think live Sim is
going to start um
not going to go away but I think you're
going to start seeing more of the trade
day model the earn the trade model that
put you on for you know 3,000 $6,000 and
then moves you
alive I think it'd be very very start
being rare to see firms
like uh flexi like bolox you know like
Apex has been that hardly ever move
someone live and I think that's also
gonna be the Fallout from this and I
mean it's not a bad Fallout I know some
people hate live and all that and they
want multip they want 20 accounts and I
understand that I totally understand
that I mean I would love 20 accounts so
I can trade one or two contracts I
totally understand it but I think that's
you're going to start seeing that go
away I could be wrong we could be
sitting here you know in a
year and have another 50 Sim only firms
or majority Sim
firms but my opinion
is that
this is where we're headed now because
Apex whether you want to say they're
still a leader of the industry they are
still a leader of the industry of the
I'm not sure if they could be the leader
I would probably say that's TOP Step but
they're one of the leaders and a lot of
these firms look at what Apex is doing
and then they
follow
so again this is why Apex has baned
treasuries this is why you might see
other firms follow Banning treasuries or
putting in at least a specific Tech
amount that you got to you know
get if you're a treasury Trader and a
legitimate treas treasury Trader this
really sucks for you and I you know I
hate that for you because I know it
totally screws up your
strategies because I know that there are
legitimate scalping strategies for the
ultra bonds I mean at$ 3125 a $31 25 a
tick you don't need need a lot to make a
lot but I guarantee you firms are going
to get really
strict and the ones that don't are going
to become
victims
so you know that's why anyway so to wrap
it up because it's already went longer
than I wanted it to that's why Apex
banned
treasuries we have scammers Among Us
that are trying to ruin things for us
I'm outing one of
them you can look to see who's hang who
he's hanging with out the
others you can look for them on the
various
discords don't let the scammers continue
ruining it and don't please don't try
and figure out how they're doing it so
you can try doing it too on other
firms
anyway that's
it let me know in the comments below
what you
think how do you feel about scammers
causing all these
issues my thoughts on how what you think
about my thoughts on the future of the
prop arm
industry and if I was right to call out
this guy and his ban of Merry
scammers that's all I got for today hope
everyone has a great day if you've made
it this far I have CFT te on tomorrow on
my live stream we'll talk about this
more I'm
sure and that's all I got let's go to
the outro if I can find it there it goes
it's always I do remind everybody you
can follow me on Twitter and Instagram
and come join our Discord we've had lots
of good conversation there about this
subject again don't cause me any
problems though or I'll kick you or I'll
for money kick you and join me every day
live on our live streams I'm done see
you next time bye
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