Mansbridge One on One: Dr. Nadine Caron, Canada's first female Indigenous surgeon
Summary
TLDRDr. Nadine Caron, Canada's first female Indigenous surgeon, shares her journey from basketball player to medical pioneer. She discusses the cultural divide in healthcare, advocating for culturally safe practices and addressing the systemic racism faced by Indigenous patients. Dr. Caron's experiences highlight the need for trust, respect, and understanding in the medical field, as she strives to change perceptions and improve healthcare for Indigenous communities.
Takeaways
- đ©ââïž Dr. Nadine Caron is Canada's first female Indigenous surgeon, breaking barriers in the medical field.
- đ„ Dr. Caron emphasizes the importance of cultural history and background in patient care, advocating for culturally safe healthcare practices.
- đ As a professor at UBC, she educates on the intersection of medicine and anthropology, aiming to change healthcare for Indigenous peoples.
- đ Her journey to becoming a surgeon began with a pivotal moment during a basketball championship, where she shadowed a surgeon for the summer.
- đ©ž Dr. Caron describes the emotional challenges of her profession, particularly in building trust with patients who are scared or in pain.
- đ She discusses the disparities in healthcare availability and options between metropolitan areas and Indigenous communities.
- đż Dr. Caron highlights the need for healthcare providers to understand and respect the cultural backgrounds of their patients.
- đ She shares personal experiences and stories that reveal the systemic racism present within the healthcare system.
- đ” A poignant moment is shared where an elderly Indigenous patient expresses relief and joy at being treated by an Indigenous doctor for the first time.
- đšââïž Dr. Caron recounts a story of a colleague's racist comment and the subsequent apology, illustrating the potential for change and growth within the medical community.
- đšâđ§âđŠ She discusses the impact of Canada's history with residential schools on successive generations, including her own family.
Q & A
Who is Dr. Nadine Caron?
-Dr. Nadine Caron is Canada's first female Indigenous surgeon, working at a hospital in Prince George, British Columbia.
What is Dr. Caron's approach to treating Indigenous patients?
-Dr. Caron emphasizes the importance of considering the patient as the expert, including their cultural history and background in their treatment.
What impact does racism have on Dr. Caron's patients?
-Racism affects Dr. Caron's patients by causing distress and concern, which can lead to a lack of trust in the healthcare system and potentially hinder necessary medical care.
How did Dr. Caron become interested in a career in medicine?
-Dr. Caron's interest in medicine was sparked during a visit to Jackson, Tennessee, where she shadowed a surgeon and was deeply impressed by the surgeon's calm and focused approach during an emergency operation.
What challenges does Dr. Caron face as a surgeon in Prince George?
-Dr. Caron faces challenges such as the emotional difficulty of building trust with patients who are scared or in pain, and the reality that the medical options she learned in metropolitan centers may not always be feasible for her patients in Prince George.
Why is cultural competence important in healthcare according to Dr. Caron?
-Cultural competence is important because it allows healthcare providers to build trust and understanding with their patients, leading to more effective treatments and better patient outcomes.
What is an example of racism Dr. Caron has witnessed within the healthcare system?
-Dr. Caron recounts an incident where an elderly First Nations patient cried upon meeting her, expressing relief at seeing an Indigenous doctor for the first time in her life, highlighting the systemic lack of Indigenous representation in healthcare.
How does Dr. Caron handle patients who are not comfortable with her Indigenous background?
-While Dr. Caron has not personally experienced patients refusing her care due to her Indigenous background, she chooses not to share her background with those who are not Indigenous, anticipating that it would not be viewed positively.
What was the outcome of a racist comment made by a fellow surgeon that Dr. Caron confronted?
-After a fellow surgeon made a racist comment, Dr. Caron responded and later received a heartfelt apology from him years later, indicating a change in his perspective and a recognition of his past biases.
How does Dr. Caron's family history relate to her work and message?
-Dr. Caron's family history, including her mother's experience as a residential school survivor and her own journey to becoming a surgeon, underscores her message about the importance of cultural understanding and the potential for positive change in Canada.
What is Dr. Caron's vision for the future, particularly for her daughter?
-Dr. Caron hopes for a future where Canadians have higher expectations for themselves, no longer tolerating racism or discrimination, and where her daughter can be proud of her Indigenous heritage without facing prejudice.
Outlines
đ©ââïž First Female Indigenous Surgeon in Canada
Dr. Nadine Caron, Canada's first female indigenous surgeon, is highlighted in this paragraph. She is shown at work in the scrub room at a hospital in Prince George, British Columbia. Dr. Caron is described as being in high demand, both at the hospital and at medical conferences where she advocates for a change in the treatment of indigenous people. She emphasizes the importance of considering the cultural history and background of patients in their healthcare. The paragraph also shares a personal story of Dr. Caron's journey into medicine, which began with a basketball team sponsorship by Hospital Corporation of America, leading to her witnessing surgery and deciding to become a surgeon.
đ Cultural Competence in Healthcare
This paragraph discusses the importance of cultural competence in healthcare, particularly for First Nations and Aboriginal patients in Canada. Dr. Caron points out that while guidelines exist, they are not always applicable due to the unique circumstances of indigenous communities. She stresses the need for trust, understanding, and respect in patient-physician relationships. The paragraph includes a powerful account of an elderly First Nations woman who, upon meeting Dr. Caron, expresses relief and the desire for her community to see an indigenous doctor, highlighting the impact of representation in healthcare.
đ Encounters with Racism in Medicine
Dr. Caron shares her experiences with racism within the healthcare system, both as a provider and as a witness. She recounts a patient's discomfort upon realizing Dr. Caron's indigenous background and her own feelings of sadness that such attitudes persist. The paragraph also includes a story of a colleague's racist comment and Dr. Caron's response, which led to a later apology and reflection on the part of the colleague. This narrative underscores the ongoing struggle with racism and the potential for growth and change within the medical community.
đšââïž Apology and Reflection in Medicine
In this paragraph, Dr. Caron recounts a significant apology from a surgeon who had previously made racist comments. The apology, which came years later, was heartfelt and indicative of a deeper understanding and change in attitude. It serves as a poignant moment of personal growth for the surgeon and a symbol of hope for broader societal change. Dr. Caron reflects on the importance of Canadians acknowledging historical wrongs and working towards reconciliation and improvement.
đšâđ©âđ§âđŠ Intergenerational Impact and Hope for the Future
The final paragraph explores the intergenerational impact of Canada's history on indigenous people, particularly through the experiences of Dr. Caron's family. Her mother was the first to graduate high school from their reserve, and Dr. Caron herself became the first female indigenous general surgeon in Canada. The paragraph discusses the challenges her daughter faces, including racism and misconceptions about her indigenous heritage. Despite these challenges, there is a sense of pride and hope for the future, with Dr. Caron's daughter embodying resilience and a strong sense of identity.
Mindmap
Keywords
đĄIndigenous
đĄSurgeon
đĄCultural Competence
đĄRacism
đĄFirst Nations
đĄCultural Safe Care
đĄResidential Schools
đĄTruth and Reconciliation
đĄRepresentation
đĄHealthcare System
đĄStereotypes
Highlights
Introduction of Dr. Nadine Caron as Canada's first female Indigenous surgeon.
Dr. Caron's dedication to treating Indigenous patients with respect for their cultural background.
The importance of understanding patients' cultural history in medical treatment.
Dr. Caron's experience as a professor at UBC and her advocacy for cultural sensitivity in healthcare.
The story of Dr. Caron's journey to becoming a surgeon, starting with a pivotal moment in 1992.
The emotional challenge of building trust with patients who are scared and in pain.
Dr. Caron's perspective on the differences in healthcare between metropolitan centers and Prince George.
The necessity of culturally safe care in healthcare systems.
Dr. Caron's experience with racism within the healthcare system and its impact on patients.
A patient's emotional response to being treated by an Indigenous doctor for the first time.
Dr. Caron's view on the importance of cultural competency in healthcare.
The apology from a colleague who had previously made racist comments, and its significance.
Dr. Caron's thoughts on the current state of reconciliation and the actions Canadians can take.
The impact of residential schools on Dr. Caron's family and the importance of acknowledging this history.
Dr. Caron's daughter's experience with racism and her response to it.
The potential future paths for Dr. Caron's daughter and the importance of cultural pride.
Dr. Caron's call to action for Canadians to elevate their expectations and intolerance for racism.
Transcripts
[Music]
[Music]
take a look at this scene because
something special is happening
here it's the scrub room at a hospital
in Prince George British
Columbia all looks routine until you
hear about the doctor scrubbing in are
you guys ready for us to start
that's Dr Nadine Caron and she is
Canada's first female indigenous surgeon
can I have a l she's in constant demand
at the hospital by her
patients at home by her 10-year-old
daughter and at medical conferences
across the country where she's trying to
change the way we treat indigenous
people the patient is the expert
everything down to their cultural
history and their cultural background
and where they reflect from every day
she sees the impact that racism has on
her patients and on her as their doctor
Caron is also a professor at UBC she
often drops by the Museum of
anthropology we talked about something
that may make you wonder about your
country and how we as Canadians see each
other let's talk
about being a
surgeon being a doctor when did you
first realize that that's what you
wanted to do you know what it's it's one
of those things that it's the most
bizarre story but it comes down to an
actual moment in time it was back in
92 and uh SFU our basketball team was an
amazing team we were down at National
Championships and they they made it so
that all 16 teams that got to the
national championships were assigned a
corporate sponsor our corporate sponsor
was HCA or Hospital Corporation of
America and they off offered the
opportunity for us to come down to
Jackson if there was any of us
interested in the field of medicine what
were you wanting to be at that point I
was waned to be a national champion in
basketball but were you heading in a
certain direction you know I had done
kinesiology at SFU so I was studying
human physiology and human movement and
I loved it so I got on a plane and went
down to Jackson my first night there I
arrived they had this welcome barbecue
for me and a whole bunch of of
Physicians were there and administrators
and they introduced me to a physician a
surgeon that said that he would take me
on as a shadow for the summer and uh I
was there for about an hour at his house
uh for this welcome barbecue and his
pager went off and so I said you know
I'm here to follow you I'd love to come
so we're heading in this pickup truck
down these dirt roads in in Tennessee
and uh we head into the hospital and I
see the ambulance pull in just as we
pull in everything was happening in slow
motion as I saw the chaos but he seemed
so calm and all of this um we went to
the office operating room and on the way
in he was asking me questions have you
ever uh seen a lot of blood and I was
like well you know I've cut myself a
couple times he's like have you ever
seen anyone die um no have you ever been
in an operating room no the nurse has
just basically scrubbed for my hands for
me to get me into sterile gown and I
stood at the operating table and uh he
asked me if I was ready um and he
started he was so calm he he knew what
he was doing uh he was so focused by the
time we were finished it was about 1:00
in the morning and uh I was covered in
blood I was just amazed at what I had
just witnessed and I remember going into
the bathroom and there was the
oldfashioned paper towel and I was
rolling it down and I wrote my
experience down on this piece of paper
towel um and uh I it was this is when it
started off with I found it this is what
I want to do and it was just moment in
time you were hooked I was hooked what's
the most challenging the most
challenging um getting from that point
to this point I think what's hard is the
emotional part of it it's um it's having
that honor of asking questions to people
who are scared who are in pain and they
don't know you and there's this this
need to find that level of trust uh so
that you can help them but they can help
you all of a sudden it's this instant
team um and you both need to be in it
all
in want to take that and so you use it
as a pen like a pen
yeah thanks living up in Prince George
living in the north uh the demographics
are very different than my training in
the metropolitan centers I did my
education in Vancouver San Francisco
Boston um I'm in a different world I'm
in a place where the options that we see
and the options we studied from
textbooks and guidelines from National
organizations they're not always
possible for the people that you're
talking to and what do you mean by that
what I mean by that is I think as um as
um a patient and a physician
relationship or a nurse or a dentist or
a pharmacist or a midwife it's a it's a
relationship and relationships are built
on trust
and understanding and respect and I
think that I've witnessed it we fall
short when it comes to understanding and
respecting and honoring the culture of
First Nations Aboriginal patients in
Canada and it's based on a lot of it's
based on history and so sometimes it's
just the fear or the um the worry that
if you do as a first nation's individual
enter into the Health Care system at any
point whether it's for the screening or
the ultimate treatment or the followup
um are you going to run into issues with
the lack of cultural competent care
culturally Safe
[Music]
Care I'd like to Now call on Dr n Cat on
to uh give the next talk as the healthc
care provider the person with the power
the person with the degrees and the
initials after your name you're learning
from your patient you're asking the
questions because you have no idea where
the abdominal pain is you do not know
how long that headache's been there and
you don't know what surgeries they've
had in the past or what their allergies
are the patient is the
expert everything down to their cultural
history and their cultural background
and where they reflect
from it's not just the skill of the KN
for the scalpel it's not just the what
you hear with a stethoscope it's not
just being able to read the X-ray or get
a spec CT scan it's pulling that all
together so you can communicate that in
a culturally safe environment so that
anyone of any background feels
comfortable coming in to your office to
your clinic to your hospital uh and
realizing they're going to be respected
and acknowledge for what they bring to
the table one of the areas that you've
been fairly out spoken on is the issue
of racism within the Health Care system
which is a difficult discussion um and
I'm sure at times a painful one for you
a times caught in the middle on this
give me a sense of an example for
you of how you've seen racism within the
system when it comes to the patient care
that's delivered for uh First Nations
are indigenous
peoples an example a patient walks into
my office she's a First Nations lady
that's traveled the distance and I walk
in and um she I ask her what nation
she's from and she tells me and uh I
explain oh you know I'm anishnabe I'm
from the other end of Canada um and she
starts to
cry she just breaks down
crying she's I don't know in her early
80s and she says I never thought I would
ever ever see and come to talk to an
Indian
doctor eight decades she goes you got to
meet my
grandkids you got to talk to them you
got to come to my community you got to
tell them that this is possible and so
it's not there so there's that element
of it where that you just see this
relief you know sort of wash over her
face and what's it doing to you it's
amazing it's an incredible honor um it's
that's a incredible responsibility what
is the racism in that story is it simply
that this woman in her 80s had never
been in a situation before where she
was being dealt with by an indigenous
doctor yeah and that's how it started
and then we started talking and then I
started realizing that a lot of the
things that was on her sort of chart
that had been sent to me by the
referring physician there was so much
missing things that she hadn't done and
so she'd come to me for one reason and
we started talking about okay besides
all that you know have you had a
mammogram because she she wouldn't she
didn't trust going into the medical
system but I had this opportunity to
work with her to sort of say okay how
can we take advantage of this safe space
that we have right now to optimize the
things that that have sort of fallen off
the Wayside because of a level of
distress you know a level of concern um
and you certainly see that I still see
it too
much I feel it too much and I hear about
it too much have you had the opposite
example where a patient has come to
you and when that patient recognized
that you were First Nations they said
you know I'm not comfortable here yeah
you know what I'm not not that I'm aware
of you know not that I'm aware of um but
having said that um I don't share my
background with someone who's not
indigenous because I don't think they'll
care I don't think they'll find that as
a POS why you don't you don't share
because well that point yeah wouldn't be
a positive thing I don't think they'd
find that a positive thing is that a
pretty sad admission I guess it
is when you wear your white coat or
you're a physician people don't say
racist things up to right to your face
when you have initials after your name
they they kind of they can't really say
you know those stupid you know those
stupid Indians those First Nations you
know they're graduation rate they can't
even get out of high school they can't
say that kind of stuff because I'm
protected by these sort of Western
measures of
success but I hear it and I and I hear
it enough because I have this honor of
meeting on a daily basis new patients
that come through the door and share
their stories with
me
what about your colleagues what have you
seen not necessarily about you but about
the patients as you're saying in Prince
George where most of your work is a lot
of the patients are indigenous or First
Nations yeah a lot of the surgeons
obviously are
not yeah and so what do you see from
them yeah um there are a few examples
that really hit home I remember one in
particular um because it was it was a
fundamental learning experience for me
very very early on in in my training
when you're training you're in so many
different hospitals all over the country
and I was sitting in this um Lounge a
surgery lounge and uh a gentleman came
in that was obviously a surgeon that had
just finished a long case he was sweaty
and um and I know the feeling you can be
pretty drained uh and he sat down at our
table and he said you know if I never
operate on another Indian it'll be too
soon and
um it was hard because it was awkward um
it hurt I was angry like this
instantaneous like gut gut reaction to
it and um so I I would say my mom taught
me if if you ever feel that way just
count to 10 don't say anything don't do
anything um and so at the end of it I
just sort of said well you know if you
don't want to operate on the Indian and
get paid then you certainly don't want
to eat with an Indian for free and I
sort of packed up all my stuff put it on
my tray and and walked away and um I
didn't know what else to do but I needed
to get out of there and I also needed
him to hear that it wasn't all right and
that he that that it hurt and and that
it was wrong um but it was odd because
as I went on across the lounge slowly
one by one the other surgeons at the
table that I was with they packed up
their stuff and they moved away too it
was it was awkward and um eventually I
looked over and he was sitting at this
table by
himself and uh and then next operation
started I had to go get ready and the
day went on and then it wasn't until
much later about four years later after
that day um I I I was in a situation
where I was seeing him quite frequently
again and uh he came up to me and he
said you know do you have time to talk
and I said sure and and uh I I thought
he was going to talk about a a clinical
case or a referral or something and he
said um I I wanted I I wanted to
apologize and I was apologize for For
What and I was thinking could he
possibly be talking about this because I
thought to him it was just another day
and he said do you remember it and I
said I remember it I remember it and he
said um well I'm sorry and I said well
what are you what are you sorry for are
you sorry for hurting my feelings are
you sorry
like what are you sorry for and he said
well that's just it lady he said I know
that if I would have said sorry that day
you never would have accepted it because
it's bigger than that and it's I've been
thinking about it and every throughout
the years when I see a patient who's
obviously Aboriginal now I catch myself
I I think about that day I think about
that experience I think about what I
said and I realized just how wrong it
was and and my assumptions and the
biases and the stereotypes and the
racist way I thought to hear his apology
so so honest and transparent and so
genuine and and what I've said is I
think that's the apology that ainal
people in Canada are waiting
for you know there are probably
thousands of Canadians if not hundreds
hundreds of thousands of
Canadians um who would like to fulfill
what you just
said
and they probably don't know how they
can do
that you know people argue and you know
we've witnessed I've witnessed it for
longer and and seen it that exact kind
of feeling that doctor had in the
initial
conversation but I think we're living
through a time now I think think you
know
people tell me that we are where where
Canadians have realized the wrong was
done they've listened to Truth and
Reconciliation they've listened to
Murray Sinclair yeah they're not sure
what it is they're supposed to do
yeah you know what I
can it's come up it's come up been
conversations that I've had and I think
it's Having the courage to die into the
history of of what our country is made
of um and and looking at it differently
um and recognizing that that's who you
are as Canadian and be proud of
everything that's great about Canada um
and fix what's
not we're part of the mang Gand yeah you
can say it really well wolf Clan the
wolf brings the spirit of the people
together and teaches the importance of
family and community be kind to your
family always try to be thankful for
them I've witnessed firsthand how
residential schools continue to
impact the generations that
follow I my daughter is 10 I asked her
permission to tell this story thanks
Mom we were driving one day and it was
she was four and uh it was in the
springtime and so it was just a couple
months away from when she was stting
kinder Garten and I'd actually even
taken her to the school where she was
going to be going to show her you know
this is a school this is a playground
and she was pretty pumped about that and
and I'm driving her to her daycare one
day and I look in my rearview mirror and
she's sitting in the booster seat and
she's crying like tears are just
streaming down her face so I don't know
what's going on so I pull over and I'm
like Alia like what's what's going on
and we had just driven driven by this um
this development that they cut down all
the trees only one big huge house on
this development and it was just dirt
surrounded by dirt and uh there's no
siding on the house and that one of the
windows was broken so it was all boarded
up and and she said is that where I'm
going to
school I said no you're not going to
school there I showed you the school
you're going to the school with the
playground and she goes no is that where
I'm going and I
said why why would you think that and
she said when you Dro me off at school
are you going to allow to are you going
to be allowed to pick me
up are you going to be allowed to see me
and then I realized you know just
started thinking about she's heard about
my mom's experience she's overheard me
talking to my mom she's overheard the
stories on the news she's she's Canadian
it was an eye opener to me that I
couldn't shelter her from this history
and nor should I
[Music]
so right there that answer and that
answer
and
okay yes good job good job the history
of your family is
is fascinating in terms of the span of
your mother
you and now your daughter your mother
went to residential
school she graduated yeah high school
and residential school yep she was the
first on her Reserve to do that and the
next first was you yeah okay you begin
your pathway you go through high school
you go through University you lost the
basketball
count them all you become the first um
female general
surgeon in the Aboriginal in the
country now we look at your daughter as
10 yeah what's the pathway for
her H you know what
I I think we're at a Crossroads I think
that we have some uh amazing choices to
make as a country are we going to really
grab them we've got the hook in are we
going to reel them in so what's my
daughter's path she's proud she's proud
of her
background she doesn't understand why
and she has there have been incidences
already in her young life where she's
been told quite clearly it's it's not
that great to be an
Indian she's been made fun of in terms
of her background because she's proud of
it so she wears that on her sleeve um
but I love her response her response is
that she just feels sorry for those
people that don't understand how
wonderful that history is I think we
have to start elevating our level of
what we expect from ourselves as
Canadians what we're going to tolerate
and what we will no longer
tolerate well on that note uh I thank
you so much I mean obviously we've Ted
talked about a lot more than just health
care and surgery and the issues that are
everyday ones for you but a life concern
of yours is one we've we have talked
about and I uh feel richer for having
had that opportunity well thanks so much
thank
you
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