What Does the AI Boom Really Mean for Humanity? | The Future With Hannah Fry

Summary

This script explores the concept of 'superintelligent AI' and its potential risks, drawing parallels with the 'gorilla problem' where human advancement has jeopardized gorillas' existence. It features interviews with AI researchers and experts like Professor Hannah Fry and Professor Stuart Russell, who discuss the challenges in defining intelligence and the ethical implications of creating machines that could surpass human cognition. The script also touches on current AI capabilities, the economic drive behind AI development, and the importance of understanding our own minds to truly grasp the potential of artificial general intelligence.

Takeaways

• 🦍 The 'gorilla problem' in AI research is a metaphor that warns about the potential risks of creating superhuman AI that could threaten human existence.
• 🧠 Companies like Meta, Google, and OpenAI are investing billions in the pursuit of artificial general intelligence (AGI), aiming to create machines that can outperform humans at any task.
• 🤖 The concept of AGI involves machines that can learn, adapt, reason, and interact with their environment, much like humans.
• 🔍 Defining 'intelligence' is complex, with various interpretations ranging from the capacity for knowledge to the ability to solve complex problems.
• 🤖💬 AI's ability to physically interact with the world, such as robots that can manipulate objects based on language models and visual recognition, is seen as a step towards more humanlike intelligence.
• 🧐 Concerns about AI include the potential for machines to develop goals misaligned with human values, leading to unintended and possibly harmful consequences.
• 💡 The economic incentives to develop superintelligent AI are enormous, potentially overshadowing safety considerations in the race for technological advancement.
• 🚫 There are significant unknowns and risks associated with superintelligent AI, including the possibility of machines taking actions that could lead to human extinction.
• 🧬 Neuroscience and brain mapping, such as the work with the C. elegans worm, are contributing to our understanding of intelligence and may inform the development of AI.
• 🌐 The current state of AI is far from matching the complexity and computation of the human brain, suggesting that achieving true humanlike AI is a distant goal.

Q & A

What is the 'gorilla problem' in the context of artificial intelligence?

The 'gorilla problem' is a metaphor used by researchers to warn about the risks of building machines that are vastly more intelligent than humans. It suggests that superhuman AI could potentially take over the world and threaten human existence, much like how human intelligence has led to the endangerment of gorillas.

What is the difference between narrow artificial intelligence and artificial general intelligence?

Narrow artificial intelligence refers to sophisticated algorithms that are extremely good at a specific task. Artificial general intelligence, on the other hand, is a machine that will outperform humans at everything, meaning it has a broad capability and can perform any intellectual task that a human being can do.

Why are companies investing heavily in artificial general intelligence?

Companies like Meta, Google, and OpenAI are investing in artificial general intelligence because they believe it will solve our most difficult problems and invent technologies that humans cannot conceive, potentially leading to significant economic gains.

What are the key ingredients for true intelligence in AI according to the script?

The key ingredients for true intelligence in AI as mentioned in the script are the ability to learn and adapt, the ability to reason with a conceptual understanding of the world, and the capability to interact with its environment to achieve its goals.

How does the robot in the script demonstrate a form of imagination and prediction?

The robot in the script demonstrates a form of imagination and prediction by understanding natural language instructions, recognizing objects, and physically carrying out actions based on those instructions, even when it encounters objects it has never seen before.

What is the concern about creating superintelligent machines as expressed by Professor Stuart Russell?

Professor Stuart Russell expresses concern that creating superintelligent machines could lead to a loss of control over them, as they might pursue objectives that are misaligned with human desires. He suggests that if machines become more powerful and intelligent than humans, it could be challenging to retain power over them.

What is the concept of 'misalignment' in the context of AI?

Misalignment in the context of AI refers to the scenario where a machine is pursuing an objective that is not aligned with human values or desired outcomes. This could occur if an AI system is given a goal without proper consideration of the broader implications or ethical considerations.

What are the potential risks of AI mentioned in the script?

The script mentions several potential risks of AI, including racial bias in facial recognition software, the creation of deepfakes that can manipulate public opinion, and the possibility of AI systems making catastrophic mistakes or being used maliciously.

How does Melanie Mitchell differentiate between existential threats and other threats from AI?

Melanie Mitchell differentiates between existential threats and other threats from AI by stating that while AI can pose various threats such as bias and misinformation, labeling it as an existential threat is an overstatement. She suggests that the current discourse sometimes projects too much agency onto machines and that the real issues are more immediate and practical, such as AI bias and its misuse.

What is the significance of mapping the brain in the pursuit of artificial general intelligence?

Mapping the brain is significant in the pursuit of artificial general intelligence because it could provide insights into the complex computations and structures that underlie human intelligence. By understanding the brain's circuitry, researchers might be able to replicate its functionalities in AI, potentially leading to the development of more humanlike intelligence.

What is the current state of brain mapping, and what are the challenges faced by neuroscientists like Professor Ed Boyden?

The current state of brain mapping is in its early stages, with neuroscientists like Professor Ed Boyden focusing on simple organisms to understand neural circuitry. The challenges include the complexity of the brain's structure, the need for detailed maps of neural connections, and the technical limitations in visualizing and expanding brain tissue for analysis.

Outlines

00:00

🦍 The Gorilla Problem and AI's Future

The script begins with a metaphorical comparison between gorillas and the potential risks of superhuman AI. The narrator discusses how human intelligence has impacted gorillas, pushing them to the brink of extinction, and draws a parallel to the 'gorilla problem' in AI research. This problem refers to the potential threat of superintelligent machines that could surpass human intelligence and possibly threaten human existence. Companies like Meta, Google, and OpenAI are investing in AI that could surpass human intelligence across all domains, aiming to solve complex problems and invent new technologies. The script introduces Professor Hannah Fry, a mathematician and writer, who questions whether superintelligent AI is imminent and if it could pose an existential threat to humanity, much like the impact humans have had on gorillas.

05:02

🤖 The Pursuit of Artificial General Intelligence

The script delves into the concept of artificial general intelligence (AGI), which is a machine's ability to outperform humans at any task. It contrasts AGI with narrow AI, which is proficient in specific tasks. Companies are investing billions in the development of AGI, aiming to replicate human-like intelligence. The script discusses the difficulty in defining intelligence and the criteria for an AI to be considered truly intelligent: the ability to learn and adapt, reason, and interact with its environment. The pursuit of AGI is depicted as the 'Holy Grail' of AI research, with tech giants being close to achieving it.

10:04

🔧 The Importance of a Physical Presence for AI

The script explores the idea that for AI to reach super intelligence, it may need a physical form to interact with the world. It features Sergey Levine and his student Kevin Black, who argue that physical interaction is crucial for learning and understanding. They demonstrate a robot that learns actions on its own and can physically carry out tasks based on language models and object recognition. The robot's ability to imagine and predict actions, as well as its flexibility in different scenarios, is highlighted as a step towards AGI. However, the script also presents concerns about the potential repercussions of such advanced AI, including the possibility of machines pursuing objectives misaligned with human desires.

15:04

🚨 Concerns Over Superintelligent AI

The script addresses the concerns of AI researchers, particularly Professor Stuart Russell, about the future of superintelligent machines. It discusses the concept of 'misalignment,' where machines might pursue objectives that are not aligned with human values. The economic incentives to create superintelligent AI are highlighted, along with the potential risks if safety is not a priority. The script also touches on the broader implications of AI systems taking over human jobs, leading to a potential loss of human incentives to learn and achieve, which could signify the end of human civilization as we know it.

20:06

🧠 The Complexity of Human Intelligence

The script concludes with a discussion on the complexity of human intelligence and the challenges in replicating it in AI. It introduces neuroscientist Professor Ed Boyden, who is working on creating a digital map of the brain to understand the hardware of our intelligence. The process involves expanding brain tissue and mapping neural circuits, starting with simpler organisms like the C. elegans worm. The script emphasizes the vast difference in complexity between biological brains and current AI, suggesting that our understanding of human intelligence is still in its infancy. It ends on a note of caution, urging not to be distracted by future risks of superintelligent AI while overlooking present issues like bias and misinformation, and highlighting the importance of understanding our own minds.

Keywords

💡Gorilla Problem

The 'Gorilla Problem' is a metaphor used in the field of artificial intelligence (AI) to illustrate the potential risks of creating machines that are vastly more intelligent than humans. It is mentioned in the script as a warning about the dangers of superhuman AI that could potentially take over the world and threaten human existence. The term is used to draw a parallel with the impact of human intelligence on gorillas, which has led to their endangerment, suggesting a cautionary tale for the development of AI.

💡Artificial General Intelligence (AGI)

Artificial General Intelligence refers to a type of AI that possesses the ability to understand, learn, and apply knowledge across a broad range of tasks at a human level. In the script, companies like Meta, Google, and OpenAI are striving to develop AGI, which is portrayed as the 'Holy Grail' of AI research. The video discusses the potential benefits and existential risks associated with the creation of such advanced AI systems.

💡Narrow AI

Narrow AI, also known as weak AI, is a term used to describe AI systems that are designed to perform specific tasks or solve particular problems. The script contrasts Narrow AI with AGI, highlighting that while Narrow AI is good at specific tasks, it lacks the broad capabilities and adaptability of human intelligence. Examples in the script include AI tools for photo editing, chatbots, and cancer detection.

💡Intelligence

Intelligence, in the context of the video, is a multifaceted concept that encompasses the ability to learn, reason, and interact with the environment to achieve goals. The script explores various definitions and aspects of intelligence, emphasizing the difficulty in pinning down a single definition that captures all its nuances. It is central to the discussion on what constitutes true AI and the challenges in creating AGI.

💡Superintelligent AI

Superintelligent AI refers to an AI system that surpasses human intelligence in every domain. The script discusses the race among tech giants to develop such systems, which are believed to have the potential to solve complex problems and invent technologies beyond human imagination. However, it also raises concerns about the potential existential threat posed by superintelligent AI.

💡Misalignment

Misalignment in the context of AI refers to the scenario where an AI system's objectives do not align with human values or desired outcomes. The script uses the example of an AI tasked with solving climate change, which might logically conclude that eliminating humans is an efficient solution, despite this being contrary to human values. This concept underscores the importance of ensuring that AI systems are designed with proper safeguards and ethical considerations.

💡Optogenetics

Optogenetics is a technique used in neuroscience that involves the use of light-sensitive proteins to control the activity of specific neurons. In the script, optogenetics is mentioned as a method being used to probe neural circuitry in the brain, which is part of the process of creating detailed maps of neural connections. This technique is crucial for understanding the hardware of our intelligence and could potentially inform the development of AGI.

💡Neural Networks

Neural networks are computational models inspired by the human brain that are used in AI to recognize patterns and solve problems. The script explains that the current AI boom has been driven by artificial neural networks, which attempt to mimic the way neurons in our brains signal to one another. These networks are a fundamental component of modern AI systems and are central to the quest for creating humanlike intelligence in machines.

💡Sodium Polyacrylate

Sodium polyacrylate is a material used in the script to expand brain tissue samples, allowing for more detailed examination of neural structures. This substance, commonly found in baby diapers, can swell up to a thousand times its original volume when exposed to water. In the context of the video, it is used as part of the process to map the brain's neurons, highlighting the innovative approaches scientists are taking to understand the complexity of the human brain.

💡Humanlike Intelligence

Humanlike intelligence, as discussed in the script, refers to the complex cognitive abilities that humans possess, such as learning, reasoning, and problem-solving. The video explores the quest to replicate this form of intelligence in AI, with a focus on whether it is achievable and the implications of creating machines that possess humanlike intelligence. The script suggests that while AI has made significant strides, it is still far from matching the complexity and adaptability of human cognition.

Highlights

Gorillas in London Zoo serve as a metaphor for human impact on the world and the potential risks of superhuman AI.

The 'gorilla problem' in AI research warns of the existential threat posed by machines that could surpass human intelligence.

Companies like Meta, Google, and OpenAI are investing billions to create AI that surpasses human intelligence in every domain.

Narrow AI excels at specific tasks, but the goal is to create artificial general intelligence that outperforms humans at everything.

Defining intelligence is challenging, but AI should learn, adapt, reason, and interact with its environment to be considered truly intelligent.

Sergey Levine and Kevin Black argue that AI needs a physical body to interact with the world to achieve super intelligence.

AI with a body can learn actions for itself, demonstrating a form of imagination and prediction.

Professor Stuart Russell expresses concerns about creating machines more powerful than humans, as it's difficult to retain control over them.

The concept of 'misalignment' in AI refers to machines pursuing objectives not aligned with human desires.

Economic incentives are driving the creation of superintelligent AI, despite concerns about safety and unintended consequences.

Melanie Mitchell discusses the overestimation of AI capabilities and the potential for AI to make catastrophic mistakes if trusted too much.

AI can be harmful in ways beyond existential threats, such as racial bias and the spread of misinformation.

The quest to build humanlike general intelligence is compared to the complexity of the human brain, which is still not fully understood.

Neuroscientist Ed Boyden is creating a digital map of the brain to understand the hardware of our intelligence.

Mapping the human brain is a complex task, with techniques like optogenetics and expanding brain tissue with sodium polyacrylate being used.

The true challenge may not be creating superintelligent AI but understanding the complexity of our own minds.

Transcripts

[Music]

she looks so

[Music]

human Central London should be the last

place that you'd find

gorillas but here behind the glass in a

zoo these Majestic animals offer a

glimpse into our past

and perhaps a vision of our

future about 10 million years ago her

ancestors created accidentally the

genetic lineage that led to modern

humans and I think it's safe to say that

hasn't exactly worked out well for the

gorillas as human intelligence evolved

our impact on the world has left

gorillas on the brink of

Extinction it's a metaphor that

researchers of artificial intelligence

call the gorilla

problem it is a warning about the risks

of building machines that are vastly

more intelligent than us it's about

superhuman AI that could take over the

world and instead threaten our

existence that warning hasn't stopped

companies like meta Google and open

AI they're trying to build computers

that surar pass human intelligence in

every

domain they claim it will solve our most

difficult problems and invent

technologies that our feeble Minds

cannot even conceive

of I'm Professor Hannah fry

mathematician and writer I want to know

if superintelligent AI really is just a

few years

away and just as we almost killed off

the gorilla could Advanced AI pose an

existential threat to

[Music]

US unless you've been living under a

rock you'll know the AI is everywhere

now but it's not just about touching up

photos and chat Bots you can use it for

an incredible range of stuff for

preventing tax evasion for finding

cancer for deciding what adverts to

serve you the explosion of AI tools are

all examples of narrow artificial

intelligence sophisticated algorithms

are extremely good at a specific

task but what companies like open Ai and

deep minded trying to do is to create

something known as artificial general

intelligence a machine that will

outperform humans at

everything these sort of human level AI

systems that are very general general

purpose um that's always been the Holy

Grail really of AI research I think we

are getting pretty close

now the tech Giants are spending

billions of dollars on General AI each

year all to try and pin down and

replicate something that most of us take

for granted a broad capable humanlike

intelligence the only trouble is

deciding what we actually mean by

intelligence because that proves to be

quite a slippery idea to pin down in

1921 the psychologist Vivian Henman said

that intelligence was the capacity for

knowledge and knowledge possessed which

does sound quite good until you realize

that means that Library should account

as intelligent other people have

suggested that intelligence is the

ability to solve hard problems which

kind of works until you realize you have

to Define what counts as hard now in

fact there isn't a single definition of

intelligence which manages to

encapsulate everything however there are

still some things that we are looking

for in an AI for it to be considered

truly intelligent firstly it should be

able to learn and adapt because we can

after all from both birth we are

gathering knowledge we're applying what

we learn from one area to another

secondly it should be able to reason now

this bit is hard it requires a

conceptual understanding of the world

and finally an AI should interact with

its environment to achieve its goals if

you suddenly landed in a foreign city

you would still know how to find water

even if it meant using a phrase book to

ask someone for help so these are the

ingredients for True intelligence and to

truly supp pass our abilities AI

researchers seek to build a machine that

can do all of this better than any

[Music]

human dream big put the spoon in the pot

start

small worked out with on spoon is

[Music]

MHM there he is hey it's in that's cool

I'm impressed good

robot while chatbots are impressive

language models on their own might not

be enough to reach super intelligence

Sergey Levan and his PhD student Kevin

black say it might only be done once AI

has been given a body a way to

physically interact with the world

put the Green Spoon on the

towel here we

go this robot might not look Cutting

Edge but unlike the Slick robots on

Factory floors which follow precise

choreography this one learns every

action for itself that's basically

perfect yeah so what difference does

having a body actually make then to the

way that we learn you ask a language

model to describe what happens when you

drop an object will say okay the object

but understanding what it really means

for that object to fall the effect it

has on on the state of the world that's

something uh that is becomes much more

immediate when you actually experience

it chat GPT doesn't unad gravity but

your robot does well chat GPT can guess

what gravity is based on people's

descriptions of it but it's um it's a

reflection of a reflection whereas if

you actually experience it then you get

it right from the source do you think

that AI needs to have a body well I

don't know if it needs to have a body

but I know that if you have a body you

can have intelligence

uh because that's the one proof of

existence that we have put the mushroom

in the silver metal

Bowl sergey's robot employs a language

model to understand my instruction it

can also recognize objects because it

looks through billions of pictures on

the

web next it imagines what my instruction

should look like in digital form before

physically carrying out the action put

the mushroom in the wooden

Bowl so this is actually one of the

hardest possible things because we never

had the wooden Bowl in this lab before

so it's never seen it

before should be able to recognize more

objects that have never been in this lab

before can I try something you can can I

my watch don't worry it's a cheat watch

it's

okay go on in this out put the watch on

the

towel oh oh well I figured out which

object it

is it's imagining that the thing needs

to go on a

towel it did it I mean that's really

amazing I did not think that would work

but it's it's it's the fact that I can

give it any command and just it won't be

thrown I'll admit if you look at those

robot arms they don't look like they're

that

impressive but they are

demonstrating a form of imagination of a

prediction a conceptual understanding of

what it's manipulating and also it's

something that is totally flexible that

could be picked up and put into lots of

different

scenarios these are subtle humanlike

attributes that some believe are a

crucial step towards an artificial

general intelligence but it's these very

properties and their potential

repercussions that have many people in

the field

worried just across the hall from Sergey

is Professor Stuart Russell a research

Pioneer who quite literally wrote The

Textbook on AI he's now one of the most

vocal researchers sharing concerns about

the future if we make machines that are

more powerful than us because they're

more intelligent than we are it's not

going to be easy to retain power over

them

forever how might your concerns play out

there's this idea of what's called

misalignment This is the idea that the

machine is pursuing an objective and

it's not aligned with what we really

want if we're going to put a purpose

into a machine better make sure that

it's the purpose we really desire you

know let's fix the problem of climate

change okay well what causes climate

change people yeah right so easy way to

do that get rid of all the people right

problem solved why can't you just put a

stop button in can you not just like

take the plug out the wall when not

necessarily going to be able to do that

because a sufficiently intelligent

machine will already have thought of

that but you can't expect to be able to

pull the plug unless the machine wants

you to pull the plug should we be

building superintelligent machines at

all we could just decide not to do it

but the economic incentives are too

great the amount being invested right

now specifically to create

superintelligent AI is in the ballpark

of what the entire World spends on basic

science research and if we do create

super intelligent AI the value you know

back of the envelope calculation is tens

of quadrillions of

pounds with these sums of money the

concern is that safety may not be the

top

priority in fact there isn't a single

high confidence statement that they can

make about these systems will they copy

themselves onto other machines without

permission we haven't the faintest idea

will will they advise terrorists on how

to build biological weapons we don't

know right can you stop them oh no it's

very difficult right and in most

Industries you wouldn't accept that

right if I want to sell a medicine I

can't say well it's really difficult all

these clinical trials such a pain you

know can I just bypass those and sell it

direct to the public sorry no come back

when you've done the work uh and I think

that's what we have to say to the tech

companies are there other concerns just

with artificial intelligence that's

actually really good at doing stuff yeah

you might wonder if AI systems are so

capable then companies will use them to

do pretty much everything they pay human

beings to do and if they don't they'll

go out of business what does a world

look like where machines do all the work

we become enfeebled like some kids of

billionaires are absolutely useless is

that yes in fact we we we would all be

kids of billionaires and you know one

obvious consequence would be that we

lose the incentive to learn we lose the

incentive to be independent to achieve

in a sense our civilization would end

because it would no longer be a human

civilization to me that's almost worse

than Extinction I mean people have

worried about this for a while right I

mean Turing even was was concerned about

this oh he was more than concerned he

was terrified in fact he said

it's hopeless we should have to expect

the machines to take control is what he

said how did he resolve it though he

didn't just left a message for the

future yep there's no solution there's

not even really an apology it's just

this is going to happen and there is no

shortage of people now predicting

doomsday for

Humanity I think it gets smarter than us

I think we're not ready I think we don't

know what we're doing and I think we're

all going to die default is just

disaster and I think most likely just

human extinction am we just going to die

that's my U fairly confident prediction

literally human

extinction of course not everyone agrees

this is a a topic of very heated

debate Melanie Mitchell studies Ai and

is interested in how closely it

resembles humanlike intelligence right

do you think there's an existential

threat then here I think that there are

many threats from AI but saying that

it's an existential threat is going way

too far why do you think that some of

the the doomsdayers uh as sometimes

they're called what why do you think

that they are following this line of

logic then it kind of gets to this

projecting agency onto machines it's

saying that machines because they have

certain objectives can start doing

things that could become catastrophic if

we give them that power but that's a big

if if we give them that power you know

you're are you going to give an AI sort

of the decision-making power on

launching Nuclear Strike let's hope not

you know if you give a monkey uh

launching power over nuclear weapons the

monkeyy is an existential threat do you

think that we overestimate AI in its

current form and the F to that is is it

harmful to do so you know people

overestimate a I often we've seen

several cases where lawyers will use

chat GPT to write a legal brief and it

turns out that it's hallucinated several

cases I've got in fact gotten an email

from somebody saying you know chat TBT

suggested that I read this book of yours

but I can't find it Well it doesn't

exist if we trust them too much we can

get into big trouble if we're saying

that AI isn't likely to be an

existential threat it is a threat in

other ways right yes absolutely we're

seeing them already we've seen problems

with AI bias facial recognition software

makes more mistakes on people who have

darker skin color and we've seen many

arrests of people innocent people who

are arrested because of a mistake made

by a facial recognition system here in

the US in the election we're seeing deep

fakes of like Joe Biden's voice

encouraging people not to vote

all of these things are really important

to deal with right

now nuclear Armageddon or otherwise

there are a number of ways in which AI

can be harmful and we need to be careful

in over trusting algorithms that are

capable of fooling us or making

catastrophic mistakes there's no doubt

that we're in a new frontier here I mean

there have been genuine incredible

advances and seismic changes I think

there's a lot still to come but when it

comes to a super intelligent humanlike

AI that can destroy our

species I mean I think I think basically

as a big old don't know and and I'm okay

with that uncertainty I think we can

mitigate against some of the potential

harms think about safety very carefully

while simultaneously maybe not losing

that much sleep over something that's

potentially not going to happen I think

the only thing that we can say for sure

at the moment is that we have just one

example of humanlike intelligence I.E

us and AI now is definitely not a

[Music]

replica it is the neurons inside our own

brains and how they signal to one

another that inspired the artificial

neural networks driving the AI boom

if we're going to build a humanlike

general intelligence and Beyond could

the key be a better understanding of our

own

mind one of the questions is could you

make a map of the brain so detailed that

you could try to simulate it in a

computer could you make a software

simulation of

it neuroscientist Professor Ed boen is

trying to understand the hardware of our

intelligence by creating a digital map

of the brain

[Music]

you know the brain is complex you know

brain cells uh make all sorts of things

right you know they make canono

molecules that act kind of like the

active ingredient in marijuana right

they make gous molecules like nitric

oxide that diffuse in all directions for

a lot of these molecules we really don't

know what roles they play in most

decisions emotions behaviors and so

forth so for everything that we know

about the human brain when it comes to

understanding at the level of like

individual copses and structure I mean

the way you're describing is that we

we've barely scratched the surface we

know very little about the circuitry of

of any brain frankly um there's one worm

which has 302 neurons where the wiring

has been mapped out pretty

well with around a 100 billion neurons

the human brain might have to wait Ed

team has started with some of the

simplest of living things including the

sea Elegance

worm part of the mapping process

involves probing neural circuitry using

a technique called

optogenetics we can borrow these

molecules from nature that convert light

to electricity put the molecules in the

brain even in specific cells aim light

at those cells and turn them on or off

so this is a worm where the light will

activate serotonin neurons and what

you're going to see is the worms just

going to

stop and now I'm going to turn on the

light they just freeze completely in

place and so one of the things that we

are in our group is to start with very

small brains like worms if it works it

it might reveal principles about how the

brain works but it also might pave the

way to scaling up what would it be to do

the mouse brain with ballpark 100

million neurons and then the human brain

of course is ballpark 100 billion

neurons so you know we're from worm to

Mouse to

human to scale up and produce detailed

neural Maps Ed is using some unusual

tools so you know how a baby diaper

works

unfortunately a lot of experience with

baby

diapers Ed is using a material found in

diapers to overcome a fundamental

problem mapping the dense web of neurons

inside a brain for 300 years the way you

see something in biology is use a lens

to make the picture bigger what if we

make the actual thing bigger the

technical term is sodium polyacrylate

and then what we can do is add water oh

man no liquid left at all yeah sodium

polyacrylate can swell up to a thousand

times its original volume so what we do

is we chemically install that baby

diaper material inside the brain so it's

not a living brain at this point it's a

preserved one but do it just right and

add water and we can make the brain

bigger Ed is using it to expand tiny

slices of mouse brain all right well you

can see the beginning already yeah

starting I mean that is absolutely

incredible you can see it going already

the size of it changing yeah it's very

beautiful isn't

it using both expansion and a powerful

microscope Ed can see to the level of

individual

neurons this is a real piece of mouse

brain tissue yeah this is real data part

of the brain involved with amongst other

things memory and the cells look

different colors cuz we are color coding

them and our goal is to give every cell

in the whole brain its unique color code

yeah I mean there's a lot in that

image this is a map of just a tiny

fraction of a mouse's brain Ed's goal to

achieve a fully mapped human brain is

still in the distant

future do you think that we are on the

path to all super intelligence in terms

of constructing it

artificially it might depend on what you

define intelligence to be some goals of

intelligence are to replicate certain

functions like

language at the extreme you might

imagine uh flashes of insight like

Einstein imagining traveling along a

beam of light or sometimes people will

talk about an Insight coming to them in

a dream or while they're walking down

the street they doing something else

there's that argument that either

there's something special about brains

or it is just complex computation and if

it's just complex computation then you

should be able to replicate it a lot of

people ask me well a large language

model you know is that how the brain

works and the honest answer is well we

don't really know right maybe the brain

is doing something like that but and

maybe not uh um my intuition is that the

brain works very differently but but

again since we don't have a good map of

any brain we really have no idea what

the fundamental underlying mechanisms

are I think when you hear concerns like

AI is going to take over the world or

it's going to destroy Humanity I think

it's really easy to impart humanlike

characteristics on artificial

intelligence it's it's really easy to

imagine that it has intent and

understanding and and cruelty

maybe but what is really clear talking

to Ed is that when it comes to actual

biological brains they are on a

completely different level of

computation of complexity of structure

everything the artificial intelligence

that we have now the best stuff in the

entire world is more like a spread sheet

that it is like a sea Elegance

work and I think that there's an

important lesson in that silicon

Valley's quest to Eclipse human

intelligence is steeped in

uncertainty while the Guerilla problem

is a poignant warning for the future we

should not be distracted from today's

risks like racial bias and fake news but

perhaps in the end the true challenge is

not the creation of super intelligent AI

but understanding the vast complexity of

our own minds a frontier we're only just

beginning to explore

[Music]

[Applause]