Industry and Insights CPA vs CMA with John Moore

Summary

The transcript features a conversation with Dr. John Moore, Chair of Accounting and Finance at Walsh College, discussing the CPA vs CMA credentials, their significance in the accounting industry, and the career opportunities they offer. Dr. Moore shares his personal journey from becoming a CPA to a CFO, highlighting the evolving landscape of accounting due to technology. He emphasizes the importance of critical thinking, communication skills, and real-world application in the field, advocating for the value of a Walsh education that combines technical knowledge with practical experience.

Takeaways

• 📈 Accounting offers a vast array of career opportunities with wide salary ranges, making it important to understand the various paths available.
• 🎓 Both CPA (Certified Public Accountant) and CMA (Certified Management Accountant) are prestigious credentials in the accounting field, each with different focuses and requirements.
• 🏢 CPAs are more focused on public accounting, external reporting, and assurance services, while CMAs are geared towards内部决策支持 and cost accounting.
• 💡 The accounting industry has evolved significantly with technology, shifting from manual processes to more analytical and decision-making roles.
• 📊 CPAs and CMAs are in high demand, with a shortage of highly qualified accountants and finance professionals in the current job market.
• 🏆 Earning a CPA or CMA can lead to high-level executive positions such as CFO (Chief Financial Officer) and controllership roles in both public and private sectors.
• 🌐 Walsh College stands out for its faculty's real-world experience, blending technical knowledge with practical application, providing a well-rounded education for accounting and finance careers.
• 💼 Career progression in accounting is not just about the numbers but also about effective communication, critical thinking, and the ability to influence decision-making within an organization.
• 💰 Salaries for CPAs and CMAs are on the rise, with potential for a good work-life balance and rewarding career paths.
• 🔍 The accounting profession requires a combination of technical skills, soft skills, and the ability to adapt to the changing landscape of business and technology.

Q & A

What are the key differences between a CPA and a CMA?

A CPA (Certified Public Accountant) is a professional designation that focuses on external financial reporting, public accounting, and involves passing a rigorous exam and meeting specific education and experience requirements. A CMA (Certified Management Accountant), on the other hand, is more focused on internal management accounting and financial decision-making within an organization. While both roles are highly respected, they cater to different aspects of the accounting field.

What is the significance of obtaining a CPA certification?

Obtaining a CPA certification establishes credibility and expertise in accounting. It is a challenging exam that signifies the holder has a deep understanding of financial statements, auditing, and taxation. CPAs often find opportunities in public accounting, corporate finance, and other high-level financial roles, and the certification can open doors to a wide range of career paths.

What are the educational requirements for becoming a CPA?

To become a CPA, one typically needs 150 credit hours of education, which includes a bachelor's degree and additional coursework. Specific accounting classes are required as prerequisites, and this has evolved over time to reflect the changing demands of the profession.

How does the CPA certification impact career opportunities and salary?

The CPA certification can significantly impact career opportunities by opening doors to various roles in public accounting, corporate finance, and other areas. It also often leads to higher salaries, as it is recognized as a mark of expertise and credibility in the field of accounting and finance.

What is the role of a CMA in an organization?

A CMA plays a crucial role in an organization by focusing on internal financial decision-making. They analyze cost data, budgeting, and financial performance to help management make strategic decisions. CMAs often work closely with different departments to optimize resource allocation and financial planning.

How does the Walsh College approach to education differ from other institutions?

Walsh College distinguishes itself by emphasizing real-world experience alongside theoretical knowledge. The faculty, who have extensive industry experience, bring practical insights into the classroom, which prepares students not just to pass exams, but to excel in their careers.

What are some of the key skills that accounting professionals need today?

In addition to strong technical accounting skills, professionals today need critical thinking, effective communication, and people skills. They must be able to analyze data, make sound business decisions, and communicate complex financial information to non-specialists.

How has technology changed the accounting industry?

Technology has significantly changed the accounting industry by automating many routine tasks, allowing professionals to focus more on analysis, decision-making, and advisory roles. It has also increased the speed and accuracy of financial reporting and made vast amounts of data more accessible for analysis.

What are some of the advantages of a career in accounting?

A career in accounting offers a steady career path, the opportunity to work in a variety of industries, and the potential for high earnings. It also provides a solid foundation for understanding business operations and can lead to leadership roles within organizations.

How important is work-life balance in the accounting profession today?

Work-life balance is increasingly important in the accounting profession, as the industry recognizes the need to maintain employee well-being and prevent burnout. While there are busy periods, many accounting roles now offer a good balance between work demands and personal life.

What advice would you give to someone starting their career in accounting?

For someone starting their career in accounting, it's important to not only develop a strong understanding of financial principles but also to hone soft skills like communication and critical thinking. Seeking mentorship and real-world experience, as offered at institutions like Walsh College, can greatly enhance one's career prospects and adaptability in the evolving accounting landscape.

Outlines

00:00

📘 Introduction to Accounting Careers

The conversation begins with a discussion on the vast opportunities in the accounting field, highlighting the importance of understanding the different career paths and certifications such as CPA and CMA. Dr. Moore is introduced as a guest with extensive experience in accounting and finance, providing insights into the profession and its evolution over time.

05:01

👨‍🏫 Dr. Moore's Background and Perspective on Accounting

Dr. Moore shares his personal journey in accounting, starting as a CPA and eventually becoming a Chief Financial Officer. He emphasizes the dynamic changes in the industry, particularly the shift from manual work to technology-driven analytical roles, and the importance of adapting to these changes. His experience in commercial real estate consulting is also mentioned, illustrating the diverse applications of accounting skills.

10:02

🚀 The Evolution of Accounting and Technology

The dialogue explores how technology has transformed the accounting industry, making roles less about manual number crunching and more about analysis and decision-making. The speakers discuss the increasing speed of business tasks and the need for accountants to be part of strategic decision-making processes, rather than just focusing on numbers.

15:03

🌟 The Accounting Industry Today

The conversation delves into the current state of the accounting industry, noting a shortage of highly qualified accountants. Despite the perception of accounting as a dull field, the speakers argue that it offers exciting and rewarding career paths, especially with the integration of technology and the potential for growth and decision-making roles.

20:06

📈 The Role of CPA and CMA in Accounting

Dr. Moore explains the roles and differences between a CPA (Certified Public Accountant) and a CMA (Certified Management Accountant). He discusses the credibility and technical expertise that a CPA provides, especially in public accounting and assurance services, while the CMA focuses on internal decision-making and cost accounting, with a blend of finance knowledge.

25:08

🔍 Forecasting and Analysis in Accounting

The speakers discuss the forecasting aspect of accounting, particularly the ability to analyze financial trends and make predictions based on historical data. They emphasize the importance of understanding the underlying causes of financial changes and the dynamic nature of business, which requires accountants to be adaptable and insightful.

30:08

📊 Career Opportunities and Education Requirements

The conversation shifts to the educational requirements and career opportunities for CPAs and CMAs. Dr. Moore shares his experience in public accounting and the fast-tracking opportunities it offers. He also touches on the different career paths available to CMAs, particularly in the private sector, and the value of both certifications in the business world.

35:08

🗣️ Communication Skills in Accounting

The speakers emphasize the importance of communication skills in accounting, as accountants often need to convey complex financial information to non-specialists. Dr. Moore shares his experience at Walsh College, where the faculty's real-world experience enhances the learning environment, preparing students not just for exams, but for their future careers.

40:09

💰 Salary Ranges and Work-Life Balance

The discussion concludes with a look at the salary ranges for CPAs and CMAs, noting that both roles offer competitive compensation. The speakers also address the work-life balance in accounting, dispelling the myth of excessive work hours and highlighting the profession's adaptability to modern expectations.

🏛️ Why Choose Walsh College for Accounting Education

Dr. Moore shares his personal story and the value of Walsh College's education, particularly the real-world experience brought by the faculty. He emphasizes the college's tradition of excellence in accounting and the practical, hands-on approach to teaching that prepares students for successful careers in the field.

Keywords

💡Accounting

Accounting is the process of recording, analyzing, and reporting financial transactions. It is central to the video's theme as it discusses career opportunities and the importance of accounting in business decision-making. The video features a conversation with Dr. Moore, an accounting and finance professor, who shares his experiences and insights into the field.

💡CPA (Certified Public Accountant)

A CPA is a professional designation for accountants who have met certain certification requirements, including passing a rigorous exam and gaining relevant work experience. CPAs establish credibility and expertise in accounting, and the video emphasizes the high demand and respect associated with this certification in the business world.

💡CMA (Certified Management Accountant)

A CMA is a professional certification for accountants who specialize in management accounting and financial analysis. Unlike CPAs, CMAs focus more on internal decision-making and strategic management within organizations. The video highlights the analytical and finance aspects of the CMA role and its applicability in the private sector.

💡Career Opportunities

The video emphasizes the wide range of career opportunities available in the accounting field, from public accounting to corporate finance roles. It underscores the importance of certifications like CPA and CMA in advancing one's career and the potential for high salaries and executive positions.

💡Education Requirements

Education requirements refer to the specific academic qualifications needed to pursue a career in accounting or to obtain certifications like CPA or CMA. The video outlines the need for a certain number of credit hours and relevant coursework, as well as real-world experience, to become a certified professional.

💡Salary Ranges

Salary ranges indicate the typical income one can expect in accounting roles, which can vary widely based on the position, experience, and certifications. The video discusses the competitive salaries for CPAs and CMAs, especially in leadership roles such as CFOs.

💡Technology in Accounting

The impact of technology on accounting refers to how advancements have transformed the way accountants work, from automating mundane tasks to enabling more analytical and strategic roles. The video highlights the shift from manual processes to technology-enhanced decision-making.

💡Walsh College

Walsh College is an educational institution that offers programs in accounting and finance. The video discusses the benefits of studying at Walsh, particularly the real-world experience and practical knowledge that faculty bring to the classroom, which prepares students for their careers.

💡Work-Life Balance

Work-life balance refers to the equilibrium between an individual's professional responsibilities and personal life. The video addresses the common misconception that accounting roles demand excessive work hours, but now there is a better balance due to changes in the profession.

💡Real-World Application

Real-world application in the context of the video refers to the practical use of academic knowledge in actual business scenarios. The faculty at Walsh College are noted for bringing their industry experience into the classroom, providing students with insights into the application of accounting and finance concepts in the business world.

Highlights

Accounting offers a vast array of career opportunities with wide salary ranges.

CPA and CMA are important acronyms in the accounting world, but their meanings are not widely known outside the field.

Dr. John Moore, an accounting and finance professor at Walsh College, shares his expertise on CPA vs. CMA.

Accounting has evolved significantly with technology, reducing the need for mundane tasks and increasing analytical roles.

There is a shortage of highly qualified accountants and finance professionals.

Accounting is not a dull field; it offers the opportunity to make decisions that impact businesses and the world.

Walsh College prepares students with real-world application and experience beyond textbook knowledge.

CPA stands for Certified Public Accountant and establishes credibility in accounting expertise.

CMA stands for Certified Management Accountant and focuses on internal decision-making and cost accounting.

CPAs often work in public accounting and assurance services, analyzing financial statements for stakeholders.

CMAs work closely with various teams within an organization, focusing on resource allocation and financial strategy.

Both CPAs and CMAs are highly respected in the business world and can lead to executive roles such as CFO.

Walsh College's accounting and finance programs are distinguished by faculty with real-world experience.

Accounting professionals must be effective communicators to sell ideas and make decisions understood and accepted.

Accounting is a rewarding career with good salary potential and work-life balance.

Walsh College has a tradition of combining technical knowledge with practical, real-world experience in its education.

Transcripts

in the world of accounting there is

massive number of uh career

opportunities the salary ranges are wide

the career aspects are incredibly uh

vast and I think because of that it's

important to understand what exactly

exists we hear acronyms all the time CPA

vers CMA and for the rest of us that

aren't in the world of accounting we

have no idea what these things mean so

today what I've done is I brought in Dr

Moore and what we're going to do is

we're going to talk about what is

exactly the CPA versus the C Ma we're

going to do a little bit of a deep dive

into each one we're going to talk about

some career opportunities some salary

ranges some education requirements and

then we're going to talk about why Walsh

is the place to get these degrees and

get yourself lined up to become the next

CPA and the next CMA and what that looks

like so what I'm going to have you do is

first introduce yourself we're going to

talk a little bit about your background

what you brought you what brought you to

Walsh and then we'll dive in so okay

well uh good to meet with you Jay uh my

background my name is John Moore I'm the

the chair of the accounting and and

Finance departments here at Walsh

college and uh my career actually

started out uh becoming a CPA coming out

of my undergraduate studies uh many many

many moons ago back back in the days of

adding machines and pencils and and

erasers but um so my own career path

eventually led to being a a Chief

Financial Officer out in industry and uh

in a uh mid-career event I I went back

and had a crazy idea of getting a

doctorate so uh I I have my doctorate

and now I uh I I teach what I what I

know and and actually also what I've

learned over the last several decades

being out there uh working in the real

world yeah and you're still doing a

little bit in the real world I I do

consult on the side my uh my specialty

area is commercial real estate and uh I

do

Consulting space nice so how long have

you been in in the accounting industry

now uh I 45 years so you've seen you've

seen some drastic changes take place in

that industry I I wasn't kidding you

when I did when I did pencil and paper

the very so so to put this in

perspective the very first time I ever

turned on a personal computer to work

was uh about six years into my

career um so so so certainly public

accounting has changed since then uh you

you were talking about CPAs and CMAs the

world has become far more Dynamic and uh

actually one of the things I like about

the world now is back then you spent an

awful lot your time doing very mundane

very detailed work and one of the

wonderful things that's happened because

of Technology since then is that these

type of roles are far less what I'll

call a small small work because because

there's there was nobody to help you um

and now you know a big part of these

career paths are being more analytical

and more decisionmaking and and it's

still important to understand the theory

but you don't spend as much time you

know cranking a number technology does

that for you which I think uh if I could

start all over again today it'd be it

it's been fun so far it'd be even more

fun if I were just there today well and

I think we're starting to see that a lot

in different in in a lot of different

categories of Business and Technology of

you know we we had somebody in here last

week we were talking about it and cyber

security and things like that and we

were talking about the the speed at

which people are able to take action and

and complete tasks now is astronomically

faster than it was even 5 years ago yes

and if you go back even further than

that it it it the speed is just

increasing I mean exponentially so I

would imagine that you know as you said

it used to be a lot more pen and pen and

paper and you really trying to figure

those things out now you don't have to

do that so you can spend the time being

analytical and beyond that the numbers

are there for you and you have the

ability to track things down much easier

than you ever did in the past and so so

talk to me a little bit about before we

dive into specifically CPA CMA talk to

me a little bit about what what is

happening in the accounting industry as

a whole that that is maybe happening

today that wasn't happening 10 years ago

and and what's what are people being set

up for now in a in the best ways well

it's interesting for th for those who

are shall I say uh business and

quantitatively inclined it's a very

interesting career path right now uh one

of the things that's happened over the

last couple years is there's actually

been a become a shortage of Highly

qualified accountants um in and and

finance people and why do why do you

think that is I I think there's a

perception that it's a boring um uh dull

type of of industry and and I think I

I'll share with you I think that

couldn't be further from the truth um

because again you you have an

opportunity in this field to be part of

making decisions for for a business

Enterprise and business in general makes

the world a better place abut know talk

about technology and all that progress

that's all on the back of business you

know entrepreneurs uh people who are

looking for Cutting Edge uh products and

services for customers that all runs

through business and that's what makes

business such an exciting career but I

think that um I think frankly uh the

profession hasn't done a good job of

selling itself um and you know we're

obviously going through uh changes in

curriculum here at Walsh so that we can

prepare students to uh be part of what I

think is a it's certainly been

a tremendous uh tremendously rewarding

career for me I'm sure and well and it

and it also helps to have somebody like

yourself who has the industry experience

to know like look this is this is an

exciting time I've been here I've been

here when maybe it wasn't as exciting as

it is today and and let me tell you it's

changing and it's nice to have somebody

like yourself in that seat to to not

only bring in that industry experience

but bring in the things that are beyond

the textbook and let our students

understand what it is what it really is

in the real world well and I would argue

that uh you know my my pathway is

prototypical of all the faculty here at

Walsh College we we we we bring in

technical knowledge but we all have a a

good uh arsenal of War Stories because

because the real world never works the

way the textbook says ever never so so I

know whenever I'm in the classroom we'll

go over a typical uh um you know Topic

in a given night and I always dedicate

some period of time for saying okay what

could possibly go wrong

it usually ends up being an extended

discussion I'm sure I'm sure but it's

but those are the things that are going

to prepare students absolutely and

that's actually what makes the the field

in general I think an exciting

opportunity you know there's a couple

things there's a steady career path you

can have all the technology in the world

you're never going to run out of the

need for accounting and finance Talent

out there so it's a I I I would argue

it's a it's a very solid career path

from that standpoint but I also think

that you know somebody's looking for

something rewarding making a in the

world especially the the way technology

has evolved in the field anybody who's

who's uh uh gotten a certain amount of

experiences in a managerial role in in

in the corporate world you're going to

be part you're going to be at the table

of making decisions that that really are

important and that to me is is a very

fulfilling part of your professional

career you're going to work you know

thousands of hours over a career uh

lifetime do you want to just uh be be

cranking something on a spreadsheet or

pressing a button or do you actually

want to be part of that decision process

that uh that that makes the wheels of

Commerce work absolutely that's a that's

a really good way to put that because we

you know we talk a lot of times about

how our students are are we feel at

least are better prepared than the

average student because they're coming

in and they're having this real world

application on a regular basis so we we

don't even really we lean into what is

the Hands-On thing that you need to know

when you go into your job not what is

the the behind the thing sure we'll

touch on that we'll talk about why why

it exists but that is not where the

majority of the time is spent because to

your point that's not what's happening

when you get into your career absolutely

no and here's here's the key thing in in

this industry in particular if you're

good at it it's really about problem

solving forever in a day in the world of

accounting and finance there are

obstacles and challenges people who are

really good at it are the folks that can

say okay here's here's a challenge

here's a problem how do we fix it and

then put together a you know and this

involves a lot of technical knowledge

but also a lot of critical thinking and

a lot of people skills you know so so so

all those things that people don't think

are part of accounting you know critical

thinking people skills that's actually a

big part of the job yeah well and beyond

that it's it's not even just specific to

accounting and once you get once you

have those skills you can take them to

do everything you want you can have the

critical thinking and and all those

pieces you can take them to do anything

you want in any career I I am testimony

to that because I came out uh of school

with an accounting degree passed my CPA

exam uh I'm a professor today in the

middle of all that uh you know I I uh

was involved in finance you know I've

I've been across the negotiating table

with uh um Venture Capital money from

Wall Street I've negotiated with uh with

banks and financial institutions uh in

my own career you know real estate's

obviously my my my C of the world but

I've been uh the person first in line in

charge of probably half a billion

dollars of real estate acquisitions

invest sh it's probably close to a

billion dollars uh of

financings um to me my accounting

background is where that all started and

and you know we all pick our different

Pathways as to where we take the career

but I could not have

enjoyed the uh the the fun of that

career without starting uh in an

accounting program learning how to debit

and credit yeah absolutely well and it's

also one of the it's one of those

careers that also can impact your

personal life MH and you can and you go

okay this is this is great now here's my

work things and now after work now I

also have to De with my own personal

things and if I know how to do this the

right way absolutely you can set

yourself off to success for the future

too ABS absolutely uh financial literacy

is important to anybody's well-being

longterm and then uh I to be married to

a CPA as well so so we we talk about

that a lot it it's it's a very um good

background to to work out your own

personal goals and and and you know my

my wife and I happen to have a uh you

know a a second home that we built well

that's all built on fulfilling career

path and um and understanding Finance

and Accounting absolutely absolutely so

let's go in a little bit into the

different ones because one of the things

that I have found fascinating over the

time of talking to yourself and other

accounting professionals is there's two

there's two very different Pathways that

that for the people like me the general

public we go no are the same thing but

they're very much not and so let's let's

start with CPA and then we'll move into

CMA so tell me a little bit about what

is a CPA okay a CPA stands for certified

public accountant uh the various um

states in the United States all have

their own uh different uh accrediting

bodies but it's a single exam that's

across the country and what the CPA does

is it establishes uh credibility to your

expertise in accounting it's a it's a

very challenging exam I'll be the first

to admit I didn't that's the first time

got in the second time I actually so we

had one of our alumni one of our alumni

was in here uh last week and he made the

comment and I've heard it three times

since then which is always the funny

part and he said you know CPA stands for

can't pass again and it's and I've heard

multiple people say like this is a very

very difficult exam it it is um although

it's interesting I've always heard CPA

being cut paste and attached so so I

like your definition better than mine um

but

but in addition to passing exam you have

to have a certain amount of experience

and uh it really creates cred ility so

so one thing that comes of it is is

you're technically skilled but at least

in my own experience you have that CPA

certification there's a lot of doors

that open up for you in terms of career

path and and you know I think one thing

to to maybe distinguish uh Jay is is you

know the worlds of accounting and

finance because you know i' my own

courage has touched both they're almost

like first cousin disciplines um in fact

like in finance to do Finance well you

need to know accounting to know

accounting you actually have to know a

little bit about finance and and so so

there are two specific disciplines and

obviously our Focus today is on

accounting but but but Finance does play

its way in we'll talk about that with

with the CMA but but um a CPA has

technical knowledge in terms of the

preparation the understanding of the

ability to analyze financial statements

so so you're expertise and if you're in

a public accounting firm coming out of

uh school you know most of your work

would be in in the area of assurance

Services where you actually go to

clients take a look at financial

statements in my own career I was on the

uh Ford Motor Company audit okay and uh

you know that'd be a month month and a

half out of every year just sitting in

in um in our work room at Ford world

headquarters and uh going over to make

sure that uh Ford was uh uh stating

their their financial statements in

accordance with accounting principles

and uh and and think about you know from

from my own background think about the

importance of of that knowledge because

you have this investor world out there

that's looking for financial results so

so who cares about financial statements

well if you want to go to a bank the

bank cares about financial statements if

you're a publicly traded company all the

shareholders and all the analysts uh are

out there want to know about it if

you're internal in terms of handing out

bonuses to people or or figuring out

where your company's coming and going

you need to have those financial

statements uh present the world as it is

and and in order to do it consistently

and appropriately you have to have

technical expertise it's it's it's hard

in in the in the context of a

conversation to to talk about the

mundane parts of accounting but but but

at the end of the day if you're a CPA

you have the ability to parse financial

information and give all these

stakeholders internal Financial sources

investors um comfort with the

information that they're looking at and

then beyond that you have the ability to

to then analyze and say well what how

does that project forward right what

kind of business decisions can we make

based on what we know right so let's go

a little bit further on that because I

think that's the thing that becomes the

most fascinating and again this goes

back to the earlier part of the

conversation where we say you know the

data is more accessible now than than it

maybe ever has been in the past and we

can do a lot more with it because for

you know technology and and even AI I'm

sure at this point it's coming into play

on on reading that data and those kind

of pieces so let's go a little bit more

into the forecasting side of things so

if you're so as a as a CPA and you're

looking into you're you're in charge of

all the accounting for let's say Ford

right or or doing that that audit what

does that look like on the forecasting

side would it because that's that seems

to me like magic because it is you can

you are somebody who can look at numbers

you can read them so well that you go

here's what 5 years from now looks like

and you can do that with pretty good

confidence well

I I wish it were that easy but but this

is where I think the expertise comes in

handy the technical expertise is you

know you can straight line things out so

you can take a set of financial let's

let's say you and I are looking at a you

know company XYZ we look at three years

ago two years ago one year ago we can

create all sorts of trend analysis but

will it go on a straight line the answer

is no be because because of Technology

change you know so so if you dig down

into those numbers okay if revenues are

are up you know what's behind that Trend

so a big part of accounting is

analyzing what's causing this data to to

change so you know in a company that has

multiple product lines well which ones

are starting to uh perhaps get a little

bit stale uh perhaps there's new

technology new competition where are we

starting to experience some breakout

which represents an opportunity also

think about analyzing your competitor's

financial statements and exactly how

they are approaching things you know are

are there some competitors that are

doing best practices better than you are

there certain uh areas where you're

doing better so so now all of a sudden

as opposed to cranking out data in a

green eyes shade environment like we've

been taught now all of a sudden you're

you're taking a look at all this all

these data points and you're trying to

make some sense in a dynamic environment

where you know there's no business out

there that has a monopoly we're always

in competition with other places so how

can we improve our performance how do we

Stack Up relative to our competition

these are all the the the uh roles and

um opportunities that accountants have

no nobody else in the organization has

the ability to do that uh or have been

trained to do it as well as accountants

and that's where the job becomes a lot

of fun absolutely well you have to have

an understanding of everybody else's

role because you have to because to your

point you have to know in the production

line this thing is picking up but you

have to know not only that it is picking

up but why is it picking up so so I I'll

give you a war story uh going into the

construction business this is the type

of stuff we talking about in the

classroom so so I used to work a lot in

construction that ties into real estate

and I work for a a construction company

where you know you you you you end up

having these projects that take a long

period of time so when you're closing

your let's say have a year-long job and

you're closing your books every three

months every quarter and you're starting

to recognize profits and revenues well

it's all based on estimates well you

know am I 25% done done with the job

right now and in that case this is where

it becomes a people business you have to

go talk to the construction folks the

construction manager who's actually

running that job and say okay you drive

out the job you see how things are going

you talk to the construction manager

what what I found out when I got into

that industry was um some of those

construction managers were overly

optimistic and some of them were

sandbaggers and so so you talk about

people business you have to and these

are intangibles this is not adding 2

plus two to get to four okay I I I have

you know uh I'm estimating my revenues

expenses based on uh percentage of

completion all of that is based upon

site observation as to what's happening

and I'm an accountant so I don't always

know when you know how far the

electrical or the Plumbing's gotten on a

construction

job but but you have to understand

patterns and and and the sources of

information in order to give all your

stakeholders good information that goes

well beyond just a you know running ad

machine or a spreadsheet skill and and

again those are the things that that I

think make the make the career

profession just fascinating yeah yeah

but again you have to understand

everybody else's business absolutely

that's a that's a really it's a really

interesting uh way to look at it is is

the understanding the the vast

understanding that has to take place

even beyond the numbers because you have

to not only be able to understand

everybody else's business you have to

intake their numbers then you have to be

able to put those numbers back out in a

way that everybody else understands and

it's I I agree I think that you know

accounting does kind of get a bad rep

for being you know this this percept

ction of something that it's that it's

not there is so much more to it than

than just you know adding up numbers so

let's let's shift gears a little bit now

let's talk about CMA so now we talked

about the CPA we know a little bit about

what that is what is a CMA and what

makes that different than a CPA okay so

so CPA as we talked about is very

strictly accounting um focused financial

statements CMA is this interesting

hybrid uh there's two parts of the exam

one part is

uh accounting focused but interestingly

enough on on a cost accounting basis as

opposed to financial basis so so the

difference between the CMA and CPA CPA

is looking at financial statements you

know how how do we arrange them properly

how do we disclose the information

properly CMA is a little bit more

Analytical in in the sense of okay do do

we uh buy this big piece of equipment um

to uh automate uh be more efficient in

producing uh a certain product uh or in

some cases some services that we provide

so it's internal based and that's that's

one part of the CMA exam the other is

actually tied to finance so this is why

it's a hybrid um type of uh credential

and the finance part is you know what's

our cost of capital how much is it going

to cost to make this you know bring this

machine in so so CMA and CPA

interestingly enough don't overlap a

whole lot with each other which which I

would argue which I would argue is what

makes somebody who's a CPA and a CMA

right uh a little bit more powerful

interesting it it that's it is

interesting because again from the from

the outsider perspective those two

things almost sound very similar they

they do so so why do you see that those

two things sit in different worlds in in

the way of a business how a business

operates well because because they

attack two different parts of business

bus problems for businesses um again

you're looking at the outside world

that's the that's the CPA route internal

decision-making is that CMA route and

and I I guess there you could create an

exam that encompasses all of it but that

would be an awful lot of territory to

cover which which again though speaks to

accounting is not that dull it's not

it's it's it's not the same doing the

same repetitive task every day the the

number of business decisions the amount

of people that get impacted by all this

um world of accounting is prettyy Broad

and that's why you have two different

designations to cover two different

skill sets interesting that it is it's

that's absolutely fascinating so you

touched a little bit about the

educational requirements of each uh tell

me tell me specifically if you're a CPA

what is your degree requirement as a CPA

so so as a CPA at at some point in time

before you become a CPA you have to have

150 total uh credit hours um of of

education and that's uh that's something

that has changed since uh back in the

Stone Age when I got it was like 126

hours or something like that but um so

you have to have a formal education

there's a certain number of specific

accounting classes that you have to take

as a

prerequisite um and and as I said before

you have to have some work experience

before you can actually um uh become a

certified public accountant okay so you

actually have to have some real

experience Beyond even just your college

degree correct it's it's not a

credential that you could be in your

last year of college take the exam and

then automatically become a CPA

interesting so how how much uh work

experience do you have to have they

they've modifi the rules uh back in my

day it was uh two years of work

experience oh so it's not even just like

a it's not even like oh you just go and

get a job and then you say you have a

job no no what has changed is you don't

necessarily have to be in public

accounting uh that's the biggest change

that has happened since then so you have

two years of of work experience that

covers um um you know resp

responsibilities and and uh uh duties

that are tied to to uh the public

accounting aspect of accounting uh but

as I said before the CPA exam once so

you evidence yourself in terms of

technical skills but you also have to uh

evidence that you have some job

experience but but again you have that

CPA uh attached to your name it it will

open up doors yeah it's it's it gathers

Instant Respect In in the uh in the

business World interesting so now on the

CMA side what does that look like from a

degree standpoint uh from a degree

standpoint a little bit easier uh if if

if you uh if you have a a degree um a

business degree and you pass the exam

you can be a CMA so from from that

standpoint it's not quite as um as uh

demanding in terms of checking all the

boxes but but I would argue uh

nonetheless it's uh it's another one one

of those credentials that will gain you

Instant Respect In in a in a business

boardroom yeah and and what's the when

you look at the two exams CPA exam CMA

exam what's the comparison uh well

they're both challenging but but but but

the CPA is generally held out as as the

gold standard credential it's a it's a

very challenging exam okay okay so

moving on beyond that now let's go into

what is a what is the career

opportunities look like so we're we're a

CPA we've now passed the exam what does

that career opportunity look like from

there okay well I can certainly speak

from my from my own experience so I uh I

worked for uh between four and five

years out in uh public accounting with

at the time was Coopers in libr is now

price waterhous Coopers uh but but that

was an outstanding work education on top

of the degree and and and one of the

wonderful things about that career uh

was the fact that it was almost like a

graduate degree in a sense you you you

earned a salary which was good uh pay

those bills but you would move from job

to job so you'd be switching locality of

and and and U client you know basically

about every month month and a half so

what you're doing is you're getting to

see a lot of different modes of business

and getting snapshots so over the course

of four years my responsibilities moved

up from from introductory to supervisory

um um I think in my fourth year I was

running uh this is something about CP

the the world of public accounting and

CPAs at the time I was uh what 25 years

old and I was running the first ever

public accounting uh audit of mome

County and I think I had 25 to 30 people

working for me at four different

locations in mome County over the course

of a summer it again if you're looking

for job responsibilities for fast

tracking uh showing off what you can and

can't do public county is a great

opportunity for that and certainly

worked for me so so what happened after

that is I uh I went into a private

sector and and my starting um real

estate was actually with the toin

company I was an assistant controller

there and then worked my way up to a

controller and um eventually worked for

the largest

uh uh industrial commercial real estate

uh development company in Michigan as

their CFO at h31 so

so I'm I'm sure my my story isn't the

same as everybody else's story I I know

people who've done far bigger you're in

more important roles than than I have

but but what I will say is public

accounting was a

tremendous um window through which to

get a good career path going and and I

was able to to uh enjoy a lot of uh uh

responsibilities at an early age of my

career and and um I I my CPA and and

work starting in public accounting was

was uh the reason why I could uh enjoy

that early in my career interesting

interesting so so now let's look at the

CMA so what is a what's career

opportunities look like in the CMA side

the the CMA tends to be more prized in

um uh the private sector so it'll be

large um both product and Service

Company so you know especially here in

in the Michigan area you see the

automotive industry you see a lot of the

uh uh tier one two three suppliers uh

are big in it you you'll see uh um

service companies now increasingly need

to have the services of a of a certified

manager account because again you're

you're trying to understand your you

have these resources at these very large

uh companies do you have too many

resources do you have too few resources

that's that's that's part of the

decision roles that the CMAs are

integrally uh uh tied into and so it's a

it's a huge part of the decision process

in these large companies so it sounds

like a CMA is working very closely with

all the different teams within a larger

organization oh absolutely and really

doing a deep dive into necessity versus

you know

resources but but again a lot of the

same attributes so so so think about

from this standpoint they have to be

going out to to the different

disciplines within a company the

engineering folks the sales folks uh the

product development folks uh the back

office they have to they have to

interface with uh a number of uh

different areas of the company they have

to be able to synthesize all this

information coming from disperate

sources and try to make sense out of it

and then report it up to to to

management make recommendations the the

the great thing about the CMA is

basically everybody's staring at a CMA

saying okay here's the data what's your

recommendation and and so you

see in the ranks of corporate America

CFOs Chief accounting officers uh

treasurers a very good chunk of these

people have either a CPA or CMA attached

to their names H so all right so I'm

going to I'm going to ask you one more

question on this because it is becoming

very fascinating to me to think about

what that looks like to talk to as a as

a CPA or as a CMA either way and you

have all the information you've brought

in all the data and you've done your

analysis on what the proper thing is to

do and maybe this Falls more into the

CMA category it sounds like now and you

have to make those decisions but now you

have to make those decisions and

communicate them to people who don't

understand the numbers to the extent

that you do what is your what would be

your advice to somebody that let's say

just got into their career and they're

in a position now where they've done the

analysis but they got to go and talk to

let's say even the even the marketer

right so I I got I can see from the data

that I need to shift my we need to shift

as a company into this different

audience we're talking to how do you as

somebody who knows this information

because the data shows it come talk to

me somebody who doesn't understand any

of that piece of it but I can help I can

help make sure it happens well that

that's a great segue Jay because that's

why I'm here as a as a faculty member at

Walsh college that to some degree

whatever proclivity I have towards

teaching was developed during my time in

Industry because you're absolutely

right it's hard for people to realize

this sometimes but but if you're in

accounting you're actually a salesperson

too be be and here's why you're AR

selling Insurance you're selling a

product but you are selling ideas and

and so one of the things that is really

critical and this is you know this is

where I think that if you can have

faculty that bring War Stories and

extell experience to the classroom

that's beneficial but you can have the

greatest idea in the world but if you

can't communicate effectively with other

people it it could be dead on arrival

and you know this is where hopefully you

get good mentoring over the course of

your career and education be because

you can have the right idea but if you

don't lay it out and teach your audience

as to why your idea makes sense and that

that it's not just selling your idea but

it's also looking at okay the logic

here's some logical Alternatives that

people may be thinking about these are

why these alternatives are not the

optimal way to go and you have to be

able to to effectively sell that and and

that's this this is the critical

thinking

part it's it's a talent

that is not a given out in the

marketplace right now so if you can get

a good education if you can get some

good mentoring that's the gateway to

being very valuable value add to your

employer because if you can do these

things right that's uh that yeah and it

is and I I hadn't thought about that but

you're absolutely right I think that if

you are the person that holds the

information it is also on you to make

sure everybody else understands why a

direction is being turned yes and that's

a it's that's a really interesting way

for you to put that and I do think it's

important to to point out like that is

why the War Stories have to exist in the

classroom because you have to go beyond

what does this definition mean great I

may understand exactly what that

definition means but if I can't go into

work and say now I'm going to put this

thing into practice and it's pointless I

don't need to know that thing no I I'll

I'll tell the story this this go back

maybe go back 10 years ago but I did

have in the undergraduate program here

we we have a common Finance course so

all you can't escape Walsh College

without taking a finance course but I

had a student she was she was a great

student she was a marketing major and uh

she ended up going into marketing but I

actually tried to to talk her into to um

uh going into finance and my argument

was this I lost it so maybe I'm not as

effective a communicator as I as Market

us marketers have the most fun that's

just that's you can't compete with that

but but but my point to her was you're

really good at numbers and you are a

market you're a marketing person that's

that was clear as day

my pitch to her at the time was you have

no clue as to how many people uh how

small the population is there is a

people who can really Market well and

are comfortable with numbers if you can

do both I know you can have a great

career in marketing too but I would

argue you can have a great career in

accounting and finance as well yeah we

had a uh last week we had we interviewed

one of our alumni and that that video

will be coming out here soon because it

was a really fascinating one and he did

that he he's has a CPA and he was

talking about but he is the most

charismatic person I think I've ever met

and he was talking about how he grew up

in sports and he was he went to college

for baseball and he was that's what he

did and he joked then he's like look I'm

not the I'm not your standard accountant

person my personality is not that but

because of this personality I have

gotten opportunities I wouldn't have

gotten otherwise and it sounds like it's

exactly what you're talking about

absolutely in fact the accounting

profession needs more people who are

comfortable in in a crowded room and

comfortable uh educating people about

things that's that's a and again but

this is the great opportunity because

technology now does all that you know

for lack of BW all that grunt work for

us that's why these skills are ever more

important today and actually I think

accounting is a more rewarding career

today than it was 20 30 40 years ago

that's an interesting perspective I I I

think that this kind of goes back I know

we've called this out a couple times now

but this kind of goes back to the idea

that the perception of accounting is

different than the reality of accounting

because I think a lot of people would

see would go by what historically has

been known as accounting of like I'm

going to go sit in this room I'm going

to punch in some numbers on calculator

and be done but what we're talking about

today is that's not the case that's that

if you are somebody that has that

personality that an accounting career

very much is what you make it and if you

come in with that personality where

you're like I want to be the I want to

be the face of this you're the you're

the face of it because and that and the

competition is pretty low at that point

if you're also that person it's that's

an interesting one one more thing I want

to touch on before we before we dive

into our last section here is let's talk

about some salary ranges because I it

sounds like I mean these people

hopefully in accounting and and in

finance are people that are being uh

seen and treated with the skill set that

they have because it is vastly important

for a company to have these people in

place in order to be able to do anything

with money so let's talk about what is

the salary range when we look at a CPA

and then what is the salary range when

we look at a CMA well CPAs will

typically make uh uh more money than

than CMAs

um you know early career public

accounting firms right now are paying

pretty good money they're paying um you

know U towards the the upper five

figures uh to hire people if if you

become a CFO for a for a reasonably

well-sized uh company you're going to

make some very good money uh you're

going to be making you know depending on

the size of the company and the

responsibilities you can you you'll be

making six figures somewhere but but but

for the large companies you know if you

get into the really big uh companies you

could be making seven figures um so so

so definitely great career opportunities

uh CMAs um I just had a former graduate

here uh take a job and it was uh very

high FES low six figure um um salary

that you know they've been in there for

for five six years so still early so so

these you you could you can make a

career out of it and live very very

comfortably yeah and what's the um on so

let's go talk about the CMA side same

same thing roughly well so so CMAs can

become controllers can become Chief

Financial officers so yeah that that

gateways that Gateway is open as well

the the high the executive roles in

accounting and finance there's more CPAs

than CMAs but there are CMAs there there

as well and and I think you know when

you talk about career

path I think this is especially

important in today's

world um it's okay how much money can I

make in live cth world the I'll check

the box in this in this in this uh

profession you can make good money in

fact the the salaries are ra Rising

fairly quickly because of the shortage

of good talent um so

that's issue one but issue two is

quality of life and there were again

this is part of the horror stories of

accounting because in public accounting

when I first got involved you'd you'd be

working 80 90 hour work weeks that's not

the case anymore um I I think the

profession has has come to the

realization you can't work people that

hard and and expect them to stay right

right you can't burn burn the candle at

both ends and then a little in the

middle too exactly so so you know I

think that you can make good good money

but you can also have a good work life

balance in in the fields today um do you

get busy around uh the year end reports

in tax season yes right uh but I know an

awful lot of accountants uh who've been

the profession for a long time who have

really good golf games um and great

vacation homes and great vacation homes

and including a boat they use in the

fall um so you know if you're looking

for that work life balance if you're

looking for a profession that demands

critical skills but also all the soft

skills as well and you have you know an

aptitude towards quantitative uh uh

things it's a it's treated me well I can

only recommend it to others yeah so now

we're going to talk about my favorite

part of this why Walsh why should

somebody who's looking to be either a

CPA or a CMA why Walsh what makes what

makes Walsh different than the next guy

so so this is the interesting story I'll

give a personal story and then I'll give

the love it so so so my personal story

uh you know I talked about my my

progression through public accounting I

became a CFO at at age 31 and and back

then the requirements were for the exam

I'd taken only six undergraduate credit

hours in finance so all of a sudden I I

I I I'm working for this company that's

that's pretty

large I can account all day long I was

short in finance and you know my

undergrad was from the University of

Notre Dame you know okay school um um

you know I'd come through and I I had my

CPA but uh somebody tapped me on the

shoulder so I'm 31 it's like I better

Bown up on finance somebody tapped me on

the shoulder and said you you want to

check out wasal

College

um with all due respect to University of

not Dame with all due respect to Wayne

State University where I got my

doctorate the most valuable degree I got

in my entire career was the master's

degree in finance that I got at Walsh

College because the faculty had real

life experience and so so I was you I

was in a new role I I had to learn new

things very fast and I had to know I was

in a position of responsibility so I had

to know what could possibly go wrong um

before before I experienced it I wanted

to know about it and the faculty to a

person were able to really step up my

game because they they they taught the

theory but they also taught the actual

practice of business and and you know

that's a tradition that was at Walsh a

long time ago it's the tradition that

still is alive and well today at Walsh

and you know I talk about Finance but we

actually we actually made our name on

accounting um you know mvin Walsh uh we

we we we have a long and story tradition

in in the accounting space and founded

founded by Thomas Edison's account yes I

love it um so

so I think that what I experienced many

many years ago here at Walsh college is

the same thing that goes on today I see

it from from from the other side of the

table but again every faculty member in

that

classroom understands the technical side

of the

trade very very well they're highly

qualified but more

importantly they bring the real world to

the classroom and I think that's that's

invaluable experience today that that

higher education for the most part

misses out on and so if you really want

to know how to do it

right I'd come to Walsh College I like

it I like it and I think that uh you

know that that brings true in a lot of

in in really all of our degree programs

to your point The Faculty are coming in

with real world experience it makes a

world a difference when we can actually

sit down in a classroom and know that

that time I'm spending that night

learning whatever that lecture or that

conversation is because it's hard to

even call them lectures and I think that

that's the part that comes in is it's

not traditional lecture it's

conversation about what does this mean

here's here's how I describe Walsh

faculty of people that I talk to book

smart and street smart and and and

that's a unique characteristic yeah it

it has been interesting to me to do more

of these interviews and I sit down with

a lot of our alumni and we have a lot of

these conversations and the thing that

continues to come up is I loved that our

faculty told me to close the book as

we're going to talk about what it's

actually like and I and it's and I every

time they do it I'm like I it's almost

like I gave them a script and I'm like

here you go but it's because they

genuinely feel the strength of the

education that they received here and

during their time here Y and uh and so

from all of us all of us that have gone

through your classes in the past and now

I get to sit here and actually interview

you and I get to be faculty here on my

on my own thank you because you have

been here for at Walsh for a long time

and you've had that same mentality

through it all of we're not just

preparing you to pass that exam we're

preparing you for your career and to

make sure that you are doing everything

that you can do to be the best version

of yourself W has been around for over

100 years now and I think that that's

the one you we talk about continuity and

change Technology's changing the

continuity of of the Walsh approach to

teaching uh has has remained the same

for a long period of time and I think

it's a valuable um uh element for all of

our graduates uh to be part of that

educational experience yes well thank

you thank you John not only just for for

all of your teaching but everything that

you do uh here at Walsh and then also

sitting here with us today my pleasure

thank

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you