DEGROWTH: Destroying the Economy to Save the Planet?
Summary
TLDRLe script explore la théorie de la décroissance économique, discutée lors d'une réunion au Parlement européen, comme moyen de lutter contre le changement climatique en acceptant de devenir pauvres pour sauver la planète. Il aborde les implications de cette approche pour les pays pauvres et développés, soulignant que les pays pauvres sont les plus grands pollueurs. Le script questionne la faisabilité de la décroissance et suggère que la croissance intensive et le déclochage entre croissance et consommation de ressources pourraient être des alternatives plus viables pour protéger l'environnement tout en poursuivant le progrès économique.
Takeaways
- 🌍 Une réunion au Parlement européen a discuté de la promotion de la décroissance économique pour lutter contre le changement climatique.
- 📉 La théorie de la décroissance économique suggère que nous devrions devenir de plus en plus pauvres pour sauver la planète.
- 💸 La décroissance économique pourrait condamner les pays pauvres à rester dans la pauvreté, ce qui est une préoccupation majeure.
- 🌱 Les pays pauvres sont les plus grands pollueurs, ce qui complique la situation environnementale globale.
- 🔄 La croissance intensive, qui utilise des ressources de manière plus efficace, est une alternative possible à la décroissance économique.
- ♻️ L'efficacité, le recyclage et la croissance via des intangibles comme les brevets et les connaissances sont des moyens de croître économiquement sans consommer davantage de ressources.
- 🚀 Pour surmonter les calamités cosmiques futures, l'humanité a besoin de technologies avancées et d'un progrès économique continu.
- 🌳 La croissance intensive et le découplage de la croissance et de la consommation de ressources sont des défis, mais semblent être les meilleures options disponibles.
- 🌐 La décroissance économique pourrait être politiquement inenvisageable et entraîner des récessions économiques coûteuses.
- 🌐 La croissance économique peut être compatible avec la protection de l'environnement si nous nous concentrons sur l'efficacité, le recyclage et l'innovation.
Q & A
Quel objectif inédit a été abordé lors de la réunion du 15 mai 2023 au Parlement européen?
-L'objectif inédit abordé lors de la réunion était de promouvoir la décroissance économique, c'est-à-dire la volonté de devenir de plus en plus pauvres pour inverser le changement climatique.
Quelle est la théorie derrière la décroissance économique?
-La théorie soutient que si nous consommons moins, nous utiliserons moins de ressources, émettrons moins de CO2 et ainsi sauverons la planète.
Quels sont les arguments des défenseurs de la décroissance économique selon le script?
-Les défenseurs pensent que la réduction de la production et du PIB n'implique pas nécessairement une détérioration des niveaux de vie et que la croissance économique intensive peut avoir lieu sans consommer plus de ressources.
Pourquoi la décroissance économique pourrait-elle être un problème pour les pays pauvres?
-La décroissance économique condamnerait les pays pauvres à rester pauvres pour toujours, ce qui les empêcherait de s'améliorer et de fournir de meilleurs services et ressources à leur population.
Quels sont les impacts potentiels de la décroissance économique sur nos vies?
-Les impacts pourraient inclure des récessions économiques coûteuses, une réduction drastique des normes de vie, et des bouleversements politiques.
Pourquoi la croissance économique intensive est-elle considérée comme une alternative possible au dégrowth?
-La croissance intensive permet aux pays de croître économiquement en utilisant moins de ressources grâce à l'efficacité, au recyclage et à la croissance par des biens intangibles.
Quels sont les défis pour les pays pauvres si la décroissance économique était mise en place?
-Les pays pauvres devraient rester pauvres, ce qui est politiquement inenvisageable, et ils pourraient ne pas avoir les moyens de se développer ou d'investir dans des technologies propres.
Quelle est la position de l'Union européenne concernant la décroissance économique?
-L'Union européenne finance des projets de recherche pour étudier comment empêcher la croissance économique pour lutter contre le changement climatique.
Quels sont les arguments contre la théorie de la décroissance économique?
-Les arguments incluent que la croissance économique peut se découpler de la consommation de ressources, que la croissance intensive est possible et que la décroissance pourrait ralentir le progrès technologique et économique nécessaire pour surmonter les défis futurs.
Pourquoi l'investissement dans la recherche, l'innovation et le développement est-il important pour l'avenir de l'humanité?
-L'investissement dans la recherche et le développement est crucial pour créer les technologies futures qui nous permettront de surmonter les calamités cosmiques et de survivre à long terme.
Quelle est la conclusion finale du script sur la décroissance économique?
-La conclusion est que la décroissance économique, en condamnant les sociétés à la pauvreté, ne semble pas être une option viable et pourrait finalement nous condamner tous, au lieu de cela, nous devrions nous concentrer sur une croissance intensive et un découplage plus rapides.
Outlines
🌱 Décroissance économique : une solution pour l'avenir?
Le paragraphe 1 présente la théorie de la décroissance économique, qui a été discutée lors d'une réunion au Parlement européen le 15 mai 2023. L'objectif de cette théorie est de promouvoir une réduction de la richesse pour lutter contre le changement climatique. Les défenseurs de cette approche, tels que Dan O'Neill et Adelaïde Charlier, soutiennent que la croissance économique durable est impossible sur une planète finie. L'Union européenne finance même des projets de recherche pour étudier comment appauvrir la population. Le paragraphe soulève des questions sur la nécessité de devenir pauvres pour sauver la planète, les conséquences de la décroissance économique sur nos vies et la viabilité de ce projet.
🌐 La décroissance, une voie politiquement inenvisageable?
Le paragraphe 2 aborde les implications de la décroissance économique, notamment les récessions économiques et la difficulté politique de convaincre les populations de réduire leurs niveaux de vie. Il est question de la nécessité de réduire la production des pays occidentaux de deux-tiers pour permettre aux pays pauvres de les rattraper. Les arguments des partisans de la décroissance qui soutiennent que la réduction de la production et du PIB ne signifie pas nécessairement une détérioration du niveau de vie sont également examinés. Cependant, le paragraphe souligne que même si la décroissance était réussie, il pourrait être trop tard pour lutter contre l'urgence climatique.
🚀 Croissance intensive et découplage : une alternative viable?
Le paragraphe 3 discute de la croissance intensive et du découplage entre la croissance économique et la consommation de ressources. Il est expliqué que les économies avancées peuvent croître en utilisant moins de ressources et en polluant moins grâce à l'efficacité, au recyclage et à la croissance à travers des intangibles comme les brevets et les connaissances. Le paragraphe met en doute les arguments des dégrowthistes qui prétendent que le découplage est trop lent et insuffisant. Il suggère que la croissance intensive et le développement de technologies propres sont les meilleures alternatives disponibles pour assurer la survie de l'humanité face aux calamités futures.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡décroissance économique
💡changement climatique
💡croissance économique
💡pauvreté
💡efficacité
💡recyclage
💡ressources
💡intensification de la croissance
💡découplage
💡énergie renouvelable
Highlights
欧洲议会在2023年5月15日举行了一次前所未有的会议,目的是推动经济衰退。
经济衰退理论认为,通过减少财富、消费、资源使用和二氧化碳排放来拯救地球。
欧洲议会和许多政治家对这些观点表示欢迎,并给予掌声和欢呼。
欧盟已经在资助研究项目,研究如何使人口贫困以对抗气候变化。
全球大多数人口仍然贫困,例如撒哈拉以南非洲国家和印度、巴基斯坦、菲律宾、孟加拉国等。
全球有50%的人口每月生活费不到240美元,最贫困的10%每天生活费不足2.15美元。
如果全球经济增长放缓,今天贫困的人将永远保持贫困。
发展中国家实际上是最大的污染者,即使发达国家的二氧化碳排放量减少到零,碳排放问题也不会得到解决。
中国目前的消费相关的二氧化碳排放量超过了美国、日本和欧盟国家的总和。
经济衰退理论可能只有两种可行的方式:说服贫穷国家保持贫困,或者重新分配全球财富。
为了实现全球财富的平等分配,西方国家可能需要将其生产减少约三分之二。
经济衰退将伴随着重大且代价高昂的经济衰退,政治上可能不可行。
GDP与幸福或福祉的其他衡量标准(如预期寿命、婴儿死亡率、教育率和幸福水平)有很强的相关性。
经济增长不一定等同于资源消耗的增加,发达经济体能够使用更少的资源实现经济增长。
提高效率、回收利用和通过无形资产增长是实现集约型增长的三种方式。
集约型增长允许国家在不消耗更多资源的情况下增长,这对发展中国家来说尤其重要。
尽管集约型增长听起来很好,但脱钩增长和资源消耗的速度可能太慢,无法阻止气候紧急情况。
为了实现所有贫穷国家达到脱钩点,它们需要变得非常富有,以便投资于昂贵的清洁和环保的可再生技术。
经济增长和资源消耗的脱钩是一个可能性,但并不意味着它们会是一个容易的任务。
从长远来看,人类将需要我们现在还无法想象的技术,例如星际飞船、先进的太空采矿、能够利用整个恒星能量的戴森球。
为了实现这些突破,我们首先需要经济上的进步。我们需要投资、研究、创新、发展机器人、比我们更熟练的人工智能设备。
将我们的社会定罪于贫困,就是将它们定罪于死亡。也许地球有限资源的问题只是我们无法看到它们之外的东西。
我们可能需要以更清洁的方式增长,也许需要努力进行再造林或开发碳清洁技术,就像我们需要推动循环经济以利用资源一样。
一切迹象表明,经济衰退,让我们永远处于贫困之中,似乎根本不是一个可行的选择。相反,它似乎是一个最终会毁灭我们所有人的选择。
Transcripts
It seems VisualEconomik community, the European Union, and perhaps the
entire world, is under threat of a major economic change at a historic level.
On 15 May 2023, a meeting was held at the European Parliament with a never-before-seen objective:
to promote economic degrowth. In other words, to promote that
we all become poorer and poorer, in order to reverse climate change.
The theory is that by doing this, we will all have less money, consume less, use up fewer resources,
emit less CO2, and thus the planet can be saved. You don't believe me? Well, check this out:
("Let me be clear. It is not possible to achieve sustainable economic growth on a finite planet"
Dan O'Neill, Professor at the University of Leeds in the European Parliament)
( "Beyond this point, economic growth is detrimental".
Speech by Adelaïde Charlier, climate activist, at the European Parliament)
These statements you have just heard are not just statements from a couple of
environmentalists at a hippie conference. Here we are talking about how the European
Parliament, and many of its politicians, have welcomed these ideas with applause and cheers.
In fact, it was not just a simple meeting, rather the European Union itself is already financing
research projects to study how to impoverish the population and thus fight climate change.
(The European Research Council is providing 10 million euros for a project that will study how
to escape from a growth economy – UAB) Yes, I know this all sounds
like a joke, but it's not. And precisely because it's not a joke, we're going
to use this video to answer a few questions: Is it really necessary for us all to become
poor in order to save the planet? What consequences could economic
degrowth have on our lives? Is all this really a viable project?
Today, on VisualEconomik, we will answer all these questions. So... Let's get started.
Those of you who are watching this video were most likely born in relatively developed countries
with your basic needs reasonably covered. You all have access to the internet, you all eat, and I'm
pretty sure you all have access to clean water. However, your reality is an exception. Most of
the world's population remains poor. Think of the countries in sub-Saharan Africa,
and countries like India, Pakistan, the Philippines, Bangladesh....
We think the most normal thing in this world is having a sofa to sit on and plenty of food on
the table. But what is normal for the majority is not having access to many basic services.
To give you an idea, even today, 50% of the population lives on less than $240
a month. And the poorest 10% do not even have more than $2.15 a day to survive.
So let me ask you: How would you go with only $2.15 a day? Not much, is it?
Well, the first thing we have to take into account with degrowth is that if global economic growth
slowed down tomorrow, all the people who are poor today would remain poor forever.
Economic degrowth is a pain for everyone, but an absolute condemnation for poor countries.
If the economy does not grow, they will be miserable for eternity.
Now, having said that, many of you may think that an exception could be made
for poor countries. At the end of the day, the richest of us, the ones who pollute the most,
are the developed countries. So we could apply degrowth only
to ourselves, and let poor countries grow until they catch up with us, couldn't we?
Well, the truth is that no, in reality, poor countries are the biggest polluters of all:
(Developing Countries Are Responsible for 63 Percent of Current Carbon Emissions –
CGD) Even if CO2 emissions in
developed countries were reduced to zero. That is, even if Europe, the US, and the entire West were
to sink under the ocean and disappear, the carbon emissions problem would not be solved at all.
As poor countries escape poverty, their gas emissions will skyrocket.
Without going any further, China currently generates more CO2 emissions linked to
consumption than the United States, Japan, and the countries of the European Union combined.
This is explained by the fact that China has a larger population,
and also because, being a poorer country, it uses much dirtier
energy sources such as coal burning. Faced with such a scenario, the theory
of degrowth could only be viable in two ways: The first: Convincing poor countries that they
have to remain poor. [Which, I can tell you now, simply won’t happen].
And the second one: By distributing wealth equally among all countries. That is,
making the rich countries much poorer than they are now, in exchange for increasing the
wealth of the poor countries up to a limit. ("Rich countries urgently need to reduce
their excess energy and resource use to sustainable levels so our sisters and
brothers in the global South can live well too," Jason Hickel, academic promoter of Degrowth)
To achieve an equal distribution of the world's wealth, Western countries would have to reduce
their production by about two-thirds to give the poor the "margin" to match them.
Here we are talking about the fact that in places like Europe, factories, trains, airports and
schools would have to run one third of the normal time. The consumption of water, electricity and
heating could only be available 8 hours a day. We could buy one third of the cars, cell phones,
food and clothes we buy now, and we could only work 13 hours a week to limit our level of
economic production. [maybe this working fewer hours part doesn’t sound so bad].
Joking aside, the fact is that the process of degrowth would be marked by significant and costly
economic recessions. And beyond the fact that the objective of degrowth may seem well-intentioned,
the truth is that everything indicates that it would be politically unfeasible.
Frankly, it would be very difficult to convince the population to reduce their living standards so
drastically. Not to mention the political turmoil, fraud, and corruption that would be involved.
Countries already have enormous problems in trying to achieve 1 to 2% reductions
in inequality. Imagine if they had to eliminate all inequality at the global level: [Insane].
The point is that it’s likely that if degrowth were to be achieved, it would take decades to
reach the targets, there would be infinite delays. And think about it, if the objective is to combat
an imminent climate emergency, and to do it quickly, that delay would simply be unbearable.
It would render the whole process useless. In the face of all of what we have just told
you, the supporters of degrowth have an argument that could solve the problem.
According to them, it would be possible to convince people that economic degrowth would be
a good thing. From their point of view, reducing production, reducing GDP, would not necessarily
imply a worsening of living standards. This is already, from the outset, a bit strange.
Okay, it is true that GDP is not a perfect measurement of happiness or well-being.
But let's be clear, GDP is very strongly correlated with other measures of well-being
such as life expectancy, infant mortality, education rates, and happiness levels.
And yes, sometimes there are exceptions. For example, Cuba is an extremely poor country,
yet it has a relatively good life expectancy. Even so, exceptions do not imply that
they form a rule: If tomorrow we slashed
the GDP of all rich countries, we would most likely not be happier, nor live longer, nor
have better education levels: quite the contrary. Be that as it may, even if the degrowth movement
were to succeed in convincing the entire population, or at least the politicians,
and the West were to start getting poorer, there would still be a major additional problem.
The reality is that nothing prevents countries that are now poor from continuing to grow and
growing well above the limits set in the future. The West could become poorer for nothing,
and the rest of the countries could take the lead and send all this degrowth down the drain.
In any case, there is one question that begs to be asked here:
It is true that degrowth is difficult, but is there an alternative?
("Perpetual growth on a finite planet leads inexorably to environmental calamity. Green growth
is an illusion." – British writer George Monbiot) Is unlimited economic growth a possibility
when the planet has finite resources? Resources that will one day run out?
Well, let's take a look: (THE BASKET OF RESOURCES)
At first glance, it seems logical that if the planet has finite resources,
then the economy cannot grow forever. However, there is a problem with this reasoning:
It is not true that economic growth necessarily equates to increased resource consumption.
Put simply, advanced economies are able to grow economically
using fewer and fewer resources, and therefore polluting less and less.
This is because economic growth does not always mean producing more things,
in greater quantity. It can simply mean using the same amount of things, but much better.
This form of growth, where things are better utilized,
is known as intensive growth, and can happen for three reasons:
The first and most obvious of all is efficiency. For example, in the past, soda cans required a lot
of metal in their construction. However, thanks to improved design, many more cans
can be made using the same amount of metal. In the same fashion, another way to increase
efficiency is to substitute scarce materials for abundant materials.
So going back to the soda cans, years ago, they were made from tin, which is a relatively scarce
resource. But these days they are made from aluminum, which is a much more abundant mineral.
The second reason for intensive growth is recycling.
Yes, it is true that many resources such as oil are depleted and do not resurface.
Meanwhile many other resources such as gold, copper, and fresh water can be recycled,
either by natural means or by circular economies. That is: although the planet has finite resources,
those resources can be used and recombined indefinitely.
Beyond that, the third reason that allows the economy to grow without using more
resources is growth through intangibles. Think for example of patents, science, YouTube
videos, educational courses or video games. All of them are ways of creating wealth, which,
beyond some electricity that can be obtained in a renewable way... consume almost no resources.
In fact, this is something that partly explains why the poorest countries are
the ones that waste the most resources. Think about it. Wealthy countries already have
their cities, their roads, their railways, all built. But developing countries are,
by definition, expanding countries. They need to use a lot of physical resources to
catch up building basic infrastructure. In rich countries, we are consuming more
and more services and intangible goods that do not require the use
of as many resources or harmful emissions. In short, intensive growth is allowing countries
to grow without spending many more resources. Even so, as good as this type of growth sounds,
the degrowthists have one important argument against this theory. Take a look:
("The decoupling between growth and resource consumption is neither rapid nor sufficient, and
there is no guarantee that it will be sustained over time. Intensive growth is to climate change
what celebrating a diet is for losing 200 grams" Timothée Parrique, Researcher at Lund University,
adapted transcript) Apparently, the big
problem with the decoupling of growth and resource consumption is that it is happening very slowly,
and that to stop the climate emergency it needs to be happening much faster than it is.
What’s more, in order for all poor countries to reach a decoupling point,
they would have to become very rich, so that they could then invest in expensive, clean and
environmentally friendly renewable technologies. And let's see, the truth is that this argument
may make sense, but as we have seen, it does not seem that the real solution is degrowth.
On top of everything, degrowth could be even slower given its political difficulties.
On the other hand, because rich countries have made a lot of progress, poor countries
will be able to grow cleanly much faster. Without going any further, locations as poor
and polluting as India are already beginning to make huge strides in renewable energy:
(India is on 'cusp of a solar-powered revolution'.)
Clearly, just because intensive growth and decoupling are a possibility does not
mean that they will be an easy task. But they certainly seem the best alternative available.
In any case, in this whole story, one last consideration is still needed.
(IS THE ROAD TO HELL DEGROWTH?) The goal of the degrowthists is to save
the planet. To save the human race from climate change. However, climate change is not the only
element that threatens life as we know it. For instance: think of an asteroid,
a volcanic mega-eruption or a pandemic... These are all events that could wipe us out.
And they are not even the biggest risk of all: You see, in five billion years the life of our
sun will be over. When the sun runs out of fuel, it will begin to grow and grow,
its flames will engulf the earth, and there will be no trace of life left on earth.
This is simply something that is going to happen. Whether we like it or not.
And at this point, we have to ask ourselves a question: If we really want to save the human
race... How are we going to protect ourselves from all these scenarios?
That is, how are we going to escape from the solar system when the flames of the sun
catch us. How are we going to resist a deadly pandemic without ultra-advanced medicines to
fight it. How are we going to deflect an asteroid or save ourselves from a super volcanic eruption,
if we keep our economic and technological progress at the level it is at now.
In the very long term, humans will need technologies that we cannot even imagine now,
intergalactic spacecraft, advanced space mining, Dyson spheres capable of tapping
the energy resources of entire stars. Without all this, we will not be able
to survive the calamities of the cosmos. So the point is that in order to achieve
these breakthroughs, we first need to advance economically. We need to invest, undertake
research, innovate, develop robots, artificial intelligence devices more skilled than ourselves,
and who knows how far we could go. To condemn our societies to poverty is
simply to condemn them to death. Perhaps the problem of the planet's finite resources is
simply that we are unable to see beyond them. Yes, the planet may have limited resources,
but the universe goes far beyond that, and our way to conquer it will be to grow economically.
Perhaps we need to grow in a cleaner way, perhaps we need
to put efforts into reforestation or to develop carbon cleaning technologies,
just as we will need to boost circular economies to take advantage of resources.
But everything indicates that degrowth, and keeping us in poverty until the end of our days,
seems anything but a viable option. Rather, it seems to be an option
that would end up dooming us all. Be that as it may, and at this point,
it’s your turn: What do you think of
the theory of degrowth and do you think that the European Parliament will try to push for
measures towards degrowth? How do we manage to push for intensive growth and decoupling?
As always, you can leave your answers in the comments. And naturally, subscribe to
VisualEconomik if you haven't already done so and activate the little bell so you don't
miss any of the following videos. All the best and see you next time!
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