Chapter 1 - TA and further useful concepts for a therapist or a coach

Summary

The speaker delves into Transactional Analysis (TA), emphasizing the importance of understanding the three ego states and their impact on human behavior. They discuss the integration of thinking and feeling within these states and the significance of developmental psychology in counseling. The talk also touches on the evolution of the speaker's approach to therapy, influenced by Berne's work, and the importance of making complex psychological concepts accessible without oversimplifying them. The speaker highlights the role of emotions, the interpreter function of the brain, and the challenges of translating theoretical concepts into practical counseling techniques.

Takeaways

• 🧠 The speaker emphasizes the importance of understanding the brain's logical and intuitive parts, suggesting that our decisions and changes occur in different areas of the brain.
• 📚 The speaker's background in religion and psychoanalysis has influenced their approach to therapy, particularly after reading Berne's book which introduced the concept of ego states.
• 🔑 The concept of three ego states (Parent, Adult, and Child) is central to Transactional Analysis (TA) and was a revelation to the speaker, highlighting the integrated nature of thinking and feeling in each state.
• 🌟 TA is presented as a cognitive therapy that differs from psychoanalysis by focusing on the here and now, and the speaker advocates for simplicity and clarity in understanding these concepts.
• 🧐 The speaker discusses the importance of understanding emotions and their origins in the brain, referencing Damasio's work and the distinction between basic emotions and the broader range of human feelings.
• 👶 Developmental stages are crucial for consultants to understand, as they influence the formation of ego states and patterns of behavior and emotion.
• 🤝 The speaker stresses the need for consultants to establish a contract with clients, focusing on what the client wants to change, which may evolve over the course of therapy.
• 🌱 The speaker highlights the significance of understanding shame and its developmental origins, using it as an example of how awareness of emotional development can be useful in therapy.
• 🔍 The speaker reflects on the evolution of their own theories, acknowledging the challenge of simplifying complex concepts without oversimplifying them.
• 💡 The speaker encourages consultants to be aware of the client's expectations and the potential for clients to hold onto the belief that their problems are not their own responsibility.

Q & A

What are the three ego states discussed in the script?

The three ego states are the Parent, Adult, and Child. These ego states are systems for thinking, feeling, and behaving, influenced by past experiences and patterns developed during childhood.

What is the significance of integrating thinking and feeling in therapy?

The script emphasizes that thinking and feeling are interconnected and should not be separated in therapy. Unlike traditional approaches that distinguished between the two, Transactional Analysis (TA) integrates both to understand the full range of human experience.

How does the script describe the intuitive part of the brain?

The intuitive part of the brain is described as mysterious and not fully understood. It plays a key role in decision-making, and research is expected to better understand its functions within 10 to 20 years.

What does the script suggest about the role of developmental theory in therapy?

The script suggests that understanding human development, especially emotional and psychological development, is crucial for therapists. Familiarity with developmental milestones allows therapists to address patterns formed in childhood that continue to influence behavior in adulthood.

How does the script differentiate Transactional Analysis (TA) from psychoanalysis?

TA is described as a cognitive therapy that focuses on the present (here and now) and involves analyzing interactions between ego states. In contrast, psychoanalysis often focuses on the unconscious mind and deeper, past-rooted issues.

What is the importance of shame in the context of the script?

Shame is discussed as an important emotion that can be traced back to early developmental stages, such as toilet training. The script highlights how shame can be used to understand and address emotional issues in therapy.

What is the concept of 'scripts' in Transactional Analysis?

Scripts in TA refer to unconscious life plans developed in childhood, often based on early experiences. These scripts guide behavior and interactions in adulthood, and therapy seeks to bring these scripts into awareness to enable change.

What does the script say about the relationship between thoughts, feelings, and memories?

Thoughts, feelings, and memories are interconnected. Feelings are often linked to memories, some of which may be conscious while others are unconscious. These elements combine to form patterns of thinking and feeling in the present.

How does the script address the role of culture in emotional development?

The script acknowledges that emotional responses, including shame, can be shaped by cultural development. What people feel shame about may vary across different cultures and families.

What does the script suggest about the future of brain research?

The script suggests that future research will reveal more about how the circuits in the brain operate, particularly the intuitive and emotional aspects, which are not yet fully understood.

Outlines

00:00

🧠 Exploring Ego States and Transactional Analysis

The speaker introduces key concepts relevant to counseling, specifically within the framework of Transactional Analysis (TA). They emphasize the importance of understanding different parts of the brain involved in decision-making and change: the logical, verbal part and the intuitive, mysterious part. They reflect on the teachings of Eric Berne, whose book on TA profoundly changed their approach. Berne's revelation about the three ego states (Parent, Adult, Child) as systems for thinking, feeling, and behaving is discussed as a foundational insight for understanding human behavior.

05:01

🔄 Circuits of the Brain and Cognitive Therapy

The discussion moves to comparing brain circuits to computer functions, suggesting that these circuits are formed from birth and evolve with time. The speaker contrasts TA with psychoanalytic approaches, noting that TA is more cognitive and has clearer, more defined concepts. The importance of developmental knowledge in counseling is stressed, as well as the ability to recognize various emotional and cognitive patterns that develop throughout a person's life. They reference debates within the TA community on the interpretation and simplicity of TA concepts, illustrating differences in perspective among practitioners.

10:03

🧬 Emotions and the Human Brain

The speaker delves into how emotions are processed in the brain, distinguishing between the more primitive brain structures that handle basic emotions and the higher-level cortex that enables complex feelings and thoughts. This section emphasizes the importance of recognizing the wide range of human emotions and the complexity of interpreting them within counseling. They also explore how a client's presented emotions may differ from underlying feelings, highlighting the need for a consultant to carefully distinguish between surface emotions and deeper emotional currents.

15:06

🔄 Therapy Contracts and Developmental Theory

The focus shifts to therapy methods, particularly the use of contracts in early decision therapy, where clients explicitly state what they want to change. The speaker underscores the need for therapists to have a grounding in developmental theory to better understand emotional and behavioral patterns that emerge at different life stages. The discussion also touches upon the importance of attachment theory and developmental markers in understanding clients' behaviors and how therapists must be well-versed in these developmental stages to provide effective guidance.

20:06

🧩 Simplification vs. Simplism in Transactional Analysis

This section addresses the critique that TA can sometimes be perceived as overly simplistic, making it too accessible and reducing its perceived value. The speaker defends the simplicity of TA, arguing that the concepts need to be clear and understandable, not necessarily simplistic. They reflect on the balance between maintaining conceptual depth and making ideas accessible, noting that TA’s simplicity is often misunderstood and undervalued. The conversation also covers the shadow aspects of TA, where simple terms were initially used to describe complex theories, and how this has impacted the perception of TA within psychological communities.

25:09

😓 Understanding Shame and Developmental Stages

The speaker talks about their work on shame, particularly how shame receptors develop around the age of two, coinciding with developmental milestones like toilet training. They discuss how understanding the developmental background of emotions like shame is crucial for counselors in the therapeutic process. An example is given of a client who exhibited signs of shame during therapy, which allowed for a swift and effective intervention. The speaker emphasizes the importance of recognizing developmental stages and patterns in clients to offer targeted support and achieve better therapeutic outcomes.

Keywords

💡Ego States

Ego states are systems for thinking and feeling that shape behavior. The script emphasizes three main ego states introduced by Eric Berne's Transactional Analysis: Parent, Adult, and Child. These states guide how individuals interact with others, combining thoughts and feelings in a unified system. This concept was a 'revelation' for the speaker in 1964, and it plays a key role in how people understand their emotional and cognitive responses.

💡Transactional Analysis (TA)

Transactional Analysis (TA) is a cognitive therapy framework developed by Eric Berne. It focuses on the interactions between people's different ego states (Parent, Adult, Child) and helps clients understand their behavior patterns. The script highlights TA as a major influence on the speaker’s approach to therapy, distinguishing it from other methods like psychoanalysis, which separates thinking and feeling.

💡Cognitive Therapy

Cognitive therapy is an approach that focuses on changing faulty or unhelpful thinking patterns. In the script, TA is presented as a form of cognitive therapy because it emphasizes the relationship between thoughts and feelings within ego states. This contrasts with traditional psychoanalysis, which separates thinking from feeling.

💡Developmental Stages

Developmental stages refer to the various phases of emotional, cognitive, and physical growth that individuals go through, particularly during childhood. The script suggests that understanding these stages is essential for therapists, as they inform how people process emotions and thoughts in their adult life. For instance, the speaker mentions markers like learning to walk and talk as crucial milestones.

💡Shame

Shame is a powerful emotion discussed in the context of developmental psychology and therapy. The script emphasizes the early development of 'shame receptors,' which form around the time of toilet training. Therapists need to understand how shame impacts clients, as it can manifest in their behavior and emotions, influencing both past experiences and present issues.

💡Intuitive Brain

The intuitive brain refers to the part of the brain that processes unconscious and instinctive decisions. The speaker contrasts this with the 'logical' part of the brain, suggesting that many of our decisions and changes are influenced by intuition. The script anticipates future research developments that will better explain how these circuits in the brain operate.

💡Emotions vs. Thoughts

The script stresses that emotions and thoughts are interconnected, challenging the traditional separation of these two concepts in therapy. It mentions that emotions, often originating in the primitive part of the brain, are processed alongside thoughts in the cortex, highlighting the complex interplay between the two in shaping behavior and responses.

💡Therapy Contract

In the context of therapy, a contract refers to an agreement between the therapist and client regarding the goals of the therapeutic process. The script mentions that clients often come to therapy wanting to change something, and a contract helps define what they want to work on. This contract can evolve as the client gains more insight.

💡Interpretation

Interpretation refers to how individuals process and make sense of their experiences, which may not always reflect reality. The script discusses this in relation to how people describe trauma or other significant events. A client’s interpretation of their experiences is crucial in therapy, as it can influence their thoughts, emotions, and behavior.

💡Attachment Theory

Attachment theory is a framework that explores how early relationships, particularly with caregivers, shape emotional development. The script hints at the importance of this theory in understanding emotional stages and patterns, especially regarding how individuals form attachments and deal with issues like shame or emotional regulation throughout life.

Highlights

The speaker emphasizes the importance of understanding both intuitive and logical parts of the brain when addressing changes and decisions.

The speaker mentions a shift in their therapy approach after reading a book in 1964 that emphasized the three ego states in Transactional Analysis.

The concept of three ego states—Child, Parent, and Adult—operating simultaneously with both thinking and feeling is introduced as a major revelation in Transactional Analysis.

Each ego state is described as a system for thinking and feeling that can be manifested through behavior, a functional approach different from psychoanalytic traditions.

The speaker acknowledges that Transactional Analysis is a cognitive therapy that combines thinking and feeling, unlike previous therapies that often separated the two.

The speaker refers to research by Damasio, highlighting the connection between emotions and the more primitive parts of the brain, and how these emotions rise to the cortex for human-level feelings.

The discussion of emotions, thoughts, and memories suggests that consultants need to be highly aware of what lies beneath the surface when working with clients.

The importance of developmental theory in consultation is emphasized, suggesting that understanding human development helps in addressing issues in the present.

Consultants are encouraged to simplify complex concepts to make them understandable to a broader audience without making them simplistic.

The speaker reflects on how early childhood experiences, particularly around shame, affect a person's development and the significance of understanding these stages in therapy.

Shame is presented as a deeply rooted emotion that can be linked to early childhood experiences, such as toilet training, and understanding this is crucial for therapists.

The speaker provides a case study of a client who experienced nightmares and how they used developmental theory and an understanding of shame to quickly resolve the issue.

Transactional Analysis is positioned as a simple yet powerful tool for understanding complex emotional dynamics, with an emphasis on practical application.

The speaker warns against making theories too simplistic, arguing that deep theoretical understanding can still be communicated clearly.

The speaker mentions how developmental theory and understanding stages of human growth are essential for consultants and therapists when working with clients.

Transcripts

nevertheless I will address your

question right now

first of all with spilling out what are

the important concepts that I think

people should have and we're going to do

some should myself should yeah I jumped

because in transaction analysis can be

in a recommendation as well and I think

let's take it as a kind of

recommendation and the other say have

enough data that they can decide on

their own whether they take it or not

it's maybe it's a it's really a game to

to get your recommendation yeah totally

after long life of working in this area

so what can be important theoretical

tools that counselors people need as a

favor for whatever it is they're going

to be talking and

we do know now from research that's

really a part of that Zynga and I want

to refer to him in that sense that he

has evolution from research that on the

right one part of our brain that is

really the interpreter the logical but

the herbal one that explains but that

actually our decisions our thoughts our

changes occur in with another part of

the brain the intuitive part of the

brain and that is rather mysterious and

that's going to be understood much

better in 10 20 years when research will

have showing better how the circuits

operate in the brain okay so you know be

in order to talk about these these

shoots I want to step back a little bit

of course my background was my

background training was on religion and

what happened was that after years of

practicing psychoanalytically doing

second individual second

psychoanalytically resentence a

critically influenced therapy I decided

that my therapy wasn't good was not

effective did not justify the amount of

time and money that was spent on it and

leading the team psychotherapy his first

book which I read in 1964 which he

published in 1961 but it was not known

before reading that book changed my

whole approach

and everything that have to say in terms

of what somebody needs to know is

expressed from the perspective of

someone who was that's formed by

thinking from the perspective of burns

original book and what was it that

transformed me what was it that I

considered so very important and changed

me it was the fact that he stressed that

we operate with three ego states that

some of what I will see now will sound

so obvious to people in nineteen in in

2012 and yet for 1964 it was a

revelation so I will still go with the

revelation that I experienced in 1964

even if you the listener will say okay

so what else is new but this was a

revelation we are put into three ego

states and each ego state is its system

this is a definition of lumber a system

for thinking and feeling thinking and

feeling that can be manifested by

behavior behavior includes an expression

on the face isn't behavior acting now

so really the original definition was a

functional definition of ego States and

it's the functionally but the definition

that interests me burned it assumed that

we had parts of our brain that operated

in terms of certain ego States nowadays

we wouldn't say that but we might see

surface

I'm comparing them to the computer we

might say cerfancy on the brain that

operate that III think in terms of the

chart circuit Li L suffered a mere dog

servant and these circuits or the

potential for these circuits existed

from the time of birth but continued and

so going back to the revelation is that

each circuit continues to exist in the

now with whatever material it has

accumulated in the course of growing up

which means by implication that being

familiar with develop developmental

child develop child development or human

development is very important in terms

of any kind of consultation one does

with someone in the here and now the big

difference between PA and Saturday

between the TA and psychoanalytic

approach is that T is a cognitive

therapy a society or today community

yeah exactly and the reference should be

given of the ta script

Lutie a scribbler which caused quite a

furor in the ta community where some

people like Schlegel for instance in

Switzerland

fortunately is there now was

enthusiastic on claim that he said that

he'd been saying that all along

and the number of other people were very

enthusiastic this was translated into

German yes or no and other people like

Molina in Italy was shocked and took an

attitude that I was the meaning ta I was

loosing it that was being reductive okay

as you may notice I spin around spin

around and I have lost a little bit of

what I was saying but I'll continue

anyway the big thing the big t

revelation is that we have three ego

states and each ego state is a system

system being like a thermostat of an

old-fashioned watch or the kind of

system that Fritz Perls talked about

English dog therapy of in of

interdependent parts and the big

contribution is to combine thinking and

feeling all therapies until them used to

emphasize the difference or the

separation between thinking and feeling

typically a client therapist for

instance would say well how do you feel

about this and the client right and so

well I think you are trying to provoke

me and the therapist would say wait wait

that's a fault that's not a feeling I'm

asking you how you feel about this and

not what you think

and this is a ridiculous reaction

because thinking and feeling are totally

in the wolf and this burn emphasis so

thinking and feeling are into

in each ego states all my ways of

thinking and feeling in the chiming of

state are different than my way of

thinking and feeling and of them equally

but it's always thinking and feeling

combined and this I think is a major

contribution of not trying to split

thinking over to me

nevertheless there is some new work by

the Moscow which I have found very

interesting and which I want to include

in here

and now people very Damacio spoke on

Spinoza for instance I'm going to accuse

me of presenting him very suggestive

element erroneously even I would hate to

think of what the marshal himself is

saying about what I say he says but I'm

going to put give you my interpretation

of what the master says and he says that

emotions emotions exist in we can talk

about emotions in the form for mammals

and they exist in all of us humans and

and the oceans therefore would be

located in the more primitive I'm not

going to try very Italian or whatever

I'm not even going to try and be

specific whether we talk about young

dollar or whatever I'm going to see the

primitive part of the brain and emotions

exist and I don't know with amasi or

others list the typical emotions I'm not

sure I can list them I think she anger

joy I think disgust I'm sure there are a

couple more exist in this part of the

brain and react and then emotions or

events associated to emotions will

travel up in the quarter up into the

cortex and now we're talking about human

beings and human beings have this

enormous range of feelings that we have

there have been we can talk about

thoughts and feelings rather

interchangeably but this process is a

very interesting one and so in talking

about in referring in in this in talking

with an adult word oh we were use with

the dot in two meanings and thrown up

I'm going to do some good on press

rather than talking to a good on person

that good on person is has the potential

of a wide range of feelings which can be

named in all kinds of their native

language just like just the way the

color spectrum can be expanded by an

artist - I don't know hundreds of

different shades of color but but

basically there

I don't know the in four or five so we

have these three go states with the

potential of a wide range of feelings

and associated thoughts and thoughts

that are associated to memories and that

relate to memory some problem

potentially conscious and some of them

potentially unconscious identities okay

we just talked about the concept that a

young consultant should know or you know

and you're referrin Byrne and I'm asked

a meaning approached about between over

thirty years of scientific research whom

I would like to refer to simply the

terminology about the interpreter the

way we describe something which is not

necessary does not necessarily

correspond even in terms of a trauma or

in terms of a happy experience why do I

only use drama that I will refer to

someone

that's the time I'm lying to myself and

I have thought it or it's being listed

very differently than the way I believe

in poor Florian Kwanzaa it means the he

or she has to distinguish between what

feelings and thoughts in the same

message maybe a client would sense yeah

and we to be aware of it that even the

emotional part you see on the surface is

not a part but they what kind of emotion

is lying really within the message or in

within the action of vision there is a

behavior yeah and introduced to

distinguish it very very careful and

listen with an open mind is not exactly

so dilemma because a client now we're

talking about a young consultant but

we're also talking about the popular

client or the consultant needs to be

aware that the client comes with an

expectation of receiving some help about

changing something that client comes it

comes with a confirmation that the

problem is not soluble exact all over

them exactly what that is but the overt

reason for coming and putting money in

order to work with real consultant is

that I want to change something the

goldens who

and on their method of therapy early

decision therapy is one of the therapies

the buildings or meri building usually

started with a client and establishing a

contractor generally about that I say

what do you want to change and so her

treatment contracts would be based on

establishing what the client says they

want to change during the course of

working the client might find out trying

that they want to change something

different than what they want to change

but that's a different story

but theoretically if the client comes

for help in establishing in modifying

something usually they would rather

modify something in the environment or

in their partner or in their job then

modify something in themselves but what

comes up needs to learn I think some

grounding in developmental said in

developmental theory is very important

certainly a young doctor especially a

pediatrician needs to learn stages of

physical development

it's different for instance a child

learning to walk and there are certain

markers in terms of age of

and what age do you expect that quartz

normal child walks about eighteen months

to two years or something at what stage

do you expect that encodes normal child

talks or says words and so on in the

same way in the in terms of emotional

development or relations we need to

familiarize ourselves with markers of

what are important phases at different

ages and then bringing it in back into

the idea of ego States the point is that

in the child ago States I have developed

certain patterns and certain ways of

being inventing into certain specific

ages and the more familiar it consultant

years sorry about the language it's very

clumsy but no it's easier to say it in

German like German anyway the more yeah

the verb at the end it's much easier

anyway when the consultant or the

therapist whether it be the counselor

needs are familiar with emotional stages

the so-called hood normal and then that

there's a huge literature of what is

considered and now there is this great

emphasis on what we call the attachment

theory at what stage you develop this

but one credo of TA of one of those

Guido's was to mix to time make things

simple and to make things comprehensible

to a twelve-year-old just a brain on a

on a level that is understandable

meaning and that's not to make it too

simplified but to make it clear that

such kind of person are able to deal

with it

that's right and there's a difference

between simple and simplistic simplistic

is cheap you have no good simple is very

important there's a couch from I start I

don't know whether it's true or not but

I was told at Einstein said that if you

can explain and Byrne said something

similar and then the Austrian Kurdish is

three nice to say I don't my

twelve-year-old doesn't understand and

to really see whether the child the

child ego can understand what's going on

okay

so I lost the game yeah but about to

make a loop that sometimes happens at Ta

where was referred as a kind of Mickey

Mouse pathology I mean yeah it's too

simple it's too easy to understand

everyone can work with after 300

trillion and feel as a therapist and I

think that's completely mistaken yes

the sentence is more going for a high

quality what you are

of the concepts and it's not yeah bring

it on higher level yeah and not to

simplify it or make it simplistic yeah

what do we honest

loss of conception list and serious for

is ETA have done yeah yeah I published

yes it's part of the museum the success

story of th yeah but it's also part of

the shadow sides a bag of the moon yeah

that makes it sometimes tough to really

use it and and it's even been my problem

too because one of this is something we

will be talking about at the end my

concept of there are acts or motive in

us when I first started to think or talk

about them my first article on the topic

was entitled sleepy spunky and still

serving and I used these simple terms to

defy at the time I thought that I could

explain motivators as residing in the

chaga co-state I no longer see it this

way this was my early attempt to develop

that piece of theory and I consider mine

and that I'm very proud of it that I can

only talk about at the end but I will

put this parentheses in here that my

article sleep is partly and serving is

often ported instead of a much later

article and I'm not happy with that

because it was published in a psychology

journal and it was called Disneyland and

so I

also the basis of part of my theory that

most valuable sometimes it's hard to

take things back well you have already

published okay but coming back to the

main road okay first of all you talked

about how professionally asked oh yes

ding what's between feeding feeding and

sinking and the seconds yeah fine you

made worse that you have to know a

little more about the development of

human being and then we have to pick and

choose and we know considered counselors

about what has been found more and more

in terms of developmentally in the

emotional for instance I I have two

articles on shame and I was the first

person in

gay community to focus on the importance

on the importance of the fact that our

same receptors so to speak start out at

about age to almost the time before - I

would say 18 months or whatever around

the time of toiletry actually and there

we have a certain kind of correspondence

to psychoanalytic theory about but not

exactly theory talks about in but

certainly implicitly Freud saw that

there is something there that the stage

of toilet training or response to a

particular stage of faming but but what

one gets shamed about differs with

cultural development cultures family

development and so on but this is an

example of how the awareness of

development is so useful with the here

and now and one of my best pieces that I

described in my first part in in one of

my attic

shame here's the case of Nancy who was

having nightmares suddenly she was quite

well-balanced and suddenly she came for

help

and because she showed symptoms of shame

in my office as she was talking from the

here-and-now perspective about nightmare

I was able to help her very fast I will

get back to that because I'm beginning

with much more the tangent I'm doing but

somewhere along the line I would like

people to I would like to refer to this

case of identifying a client who

suddenly gets flushed right in the face

in talking to me about how she doesn't

remember the content of the nightmare

and from that I was able to come her

very fast in getting rid of the terrible

experience she was feeling in the now

okay I'm lost again start all over again

so what does one eat - so we enough see

in your system and the system system

distinguish between yeah feelings and

thoughts we have aspects of brain

function we have stages now of

development yeah and one of the points

you mentioned missing this context was

the ability to shame and now it will be

used or misused in in the time when we

when we are you have a grow up and then

be a rise up and absorb achievement and

buying a social environment of em yeah

this for instance this I'm using this is

an example to show for instance in

working with