Who Makes Better Movies? Marvel vs DC | Middle Ground

Summary

In this video, the discussion revolves around the mental health benefits of therapy, with a sponsorship mention for Better Help. The conversation shifts to a passionate debate comparing Marvel and DC universes, with participants sharing personal connections to characters and franchises. The dialogue touches on the relatability of Marvel's humanized heroes versus the darker, grittier DC narratives. It also addresses the impact of the Marvel Cinematic Universe on popular culture and the challenges faced by DC fans in a Marvel-dominated discourse. The conversation is a testament to the power of comic book stories to resonate with different audiences and the importance of representation in media.

Takeaways

• 🙌 The discussion starts with a sponsorship acknowledgment for Better Help, emphasizing the importance of mental health support.
• 🕷️ Participants express varied opinions on the quality of Spider-Man movies, with some not being fans of the original series.
• 🦇 There's a shared sentiment that DC characters are often portrayed as darker and grittier compared to the more formulaic Marvel films.
• 🎭 The conversation includes individuals with different backgrounds, such as philosophy and art history, who find deep connections to comic book characters.
• 🌐 The Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU) is credited with popularizing superheroes and making 'nerd culture' mainstream, increasing the visibility and acceptance of fandoms.
• 🌟 DC fans feel that their favorite characters are underappreciated and face an uphill battle in social conversations dominated by Marvel enthusiasts.
• 🎭 The discussion touches on the relatability of characters like Peter Parker and his anxiety, which resonates with many viewers.
• 🌞 Superman is seen as a symbol of unbreakable goodness, despite being an alien with immense power, highlighting the human aspects within DC characters.
• 🎨 The participants agree that art, including comic book movies, is subjective and should not be confined by rigid definitions, allowing for a wide range of storytelling.
• 🤝 The conversation concludes with the idea that cinema, especially superhero movies, has the power to bring people together across different ages and backgrounds.

Q & A

What is the main theme of the video discussion?

The main theme of the video discussion revolves around the comparison between Marvel and DC, focusing on their respective movies, characters, and the impact on fans.

Why does the video mention Better Help at the beginning?

Better Help is mentioned because they are sponsoring the episode, and the speaker shares a personal connection with the service, advocating for mental health support.

What is the general opinion of the participants about the original Spider-Man movies?

The participants have mixed opinions about the original Spider-Man movies, with some not being huge fans and considering them corny, while others appreciate the representation of the characters.

How do the participants feel about the representation of DC characters in movies compared to Marvel?

Some participants feel that DC movies are grittier and darker, which might not always resonate with audiences as strongly as Marvel's lighter and more relatable approach.

What is the significance of the mention of the character Superman in the discussion?

Superman is mentioned as an example of a character that some find hard to relate to due to his overpowered nature and 'brick' personality, but also as a symbol of unbreakable goodness and a relatable human experience.

Why does the discussion touch on the topic of mental health?

Mental health is discussed as it is a personal struggle for the speaker, who has used Better Help services, and it serves as a reminder of the importance of mental well-being, even for those discussing pop culture topics.

What is the view of the participants on the representation of diversity in superhero movies?

The participants appreciate the representation of diversity in superhero movies, as long as it feels natural and not forced, acknowledging the importance of inclusive storytelling.

How do the participants feel about the social perception of being a DC fan compared to a Marvel fan?

Some participants feel that being a DC fan can be challenging due to the social dominance of Marvel conversations, and there's a sense that DC movies are often met with skepticism.

What is the participants' opinion on the impact of the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU) on the perception of nerd culture?

The participants believe that the MCU has made nerd culture more mainstream and accepted, with cosplay and fandoms gaining popularity and respect.

What does the discussion imply about the importance of relatability in superhero characters?

The discussion implies that relatability is crucial for audiences to connect with superhero characters, as it allows them to see aspects of themselves in the characters and their struggles.

How do the participants view the argument that Batman can defeat any superhero with enough preparation time?

Some participants find the argument that Batman can defeat any superhero with prep time overused and limiting, as it can reduce the stakes and suspense in stories.

Outlines

00:00

😀 Sponsorship and Personal Mental Health Struggles

The video begins with a sponsorship acknowledgment, expressing gratitude to BetterHelp for supporting the episode. The speaker shares personal experiences with mental health, including anxiety and depression, and how seeking help from BetterHelp was beneficial. BetterHelp is described as a platform that assesses users' needs through questions and matches them with licensed therapists for online communication. The service is praised for its global access to counselors, flexibility in changing therapists, and affordability compared to traditional counseling. The speaker encourages viewers to take advantage of a special offer for the first month's discount and highlights BetterHelp as a resource for professional online counseling.

05:01

🦸‍♂️ Comic Book Fandoms and Representations

The conversation shifts to personal connections with comic book characters and how they influence individuals. The panelists discuss their backgrounds and what drew them to comic books, with some highlighting the importance of relatability in characters like Peter Parker's anxiety and the humanization of superheroes. There's a debate on the appeal of Marvel vs. DC, with opinions on the darker tones of DC and the more relatable, human aspects of Marvel characters. The discussion touches on the evolution of nerd culture and the impact of the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU) on popularizing superheroes and making 'nerd' culture mainstream. The panelists also address the challenges faced by DC fans in a society where Marvel dominates social conversations.

10:03

🎭 The Impact of Fandom and Character Relatability

This section delves deeper into the impact of comic book characters on fans' lives, with discussions on how characters like Superman and Batman are seen as reflections of human nature and societal issues. The conversation explores the relatability of characters and how their struggles mirror real-life challenges. There's a critique of the oversimplification of comic book universes to just movies or TV shows, erasing the contributions of thousands of people involved in creating these worlds. The panelists share personal stories of how they found representation and inspiration in characters, and how the introduction of diverse characters in recent times has been significant for representation.

15:06

🎬 The Role of Cinema and Art in Shaping Fandoms

The final paragraph discusses the broader implications of cinema and art in shaping fandoms and public perception. The participants debate the definition of 'cinema' and the importance of not limiting creative freedom. They argue that cinema's role is to bring people together and that art, including comic book movies, should be inclusive and not confined to specific criteria. The conversation wraps up with a reflection on the importance of vulnerability in characters for audience connection and the acknowledgment that art, in its various forms, can evoke emotions and bring diverse audiences together.

Keywords

💡Mental Health

Mental health refers to a person's emotional, psychological, and social well-being. In the video, the importance of taking care of one's mental health is emphasized through the sponsorship by Better Help, an online platform for professional counseling. The script mentions personal struggles with anxiety and depression, highlighting the need for professional help and the positive impact that therapy can have on an individual's life.

💡Better Help

Better Help is an online platform that connects individuals with licensed therapists for professional counseling. As mentioned in the script, it offers a way to assess personal needs through a questionnaire and matches users with therapists, allowing for online communication and flexibility in changing counselors if necessary. It represents a modern approach to mental health support, making therapy more accessible and affordable.

💡DC Comics

DC Comics is a major American comic book publisher, home to iconic characters such as Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. The script discusses the impact of DC's storytelling, which is often described as 'gritty' and 'dark' compared to other comic book franchises. Participants in the video share their personal connections and preferences for DC characters, indicating the brand's significant role in shaping their interests and identities.

💡Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU)

The Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU) is a media franchise and shared universe that is the setting of several superhero films and series produced by Marvel Studios. In the script, the MCU is contrasted with DC's approach to storytelling, with the MCU being seen as more 'cookie cutter' and less gritty. The discussion reflects the popularity and cultural impact of the MCU, which has made superheroes mainstream and influenced perceptions of what constitutes a superhero narrative.

💡Representation

Representation in media refers to the depiction of diverse characters and groups in a way that accurately reflects their experiences and identities. The script touches on the importance of representation, especially in superhero narratives, where the inclusion of characters from different backgrounds can make the stories more relatable and inclusive. The mention of Shang-Chi and the desire for more Asian superheroes exemplifies this concept.

💡Fandom

A fandom is a community of fans who are actively interested in a particular cultural phenomenon, such as a movie franchise, TV series, or comic book. The video script features discussions among fans of DC and Marvel, showcasing the passion, knowledge, and personal connections that individuals have with these fictional universes. Fandoms often involve social interactions, debates, and a sense of belonging among like-minded individuals.

💡Toxicity

Toxicity in the context of the script refers to negative behaviors and attitudes within fan communities, such as excessive criticism, personal attacks, or gatekeeping. The participants discuss the challenges of being a DC fan in a predominantly Marvel-focused social environment and the toxicity that can arise from strong opinions and debates within fandoms.

💡Relatability

Relatability is the quality of a character or story that allows an audience to identify with or feel a connection to it. In the video, characters from both DC and Marvel are discussed in terms of their relatability. For instance, the script mentions how Peter Parker's anxiety and teenage struggles make him relatable to viewers, whereas Superman's 'unbreakable goodness' might make him seem less relatable but still endearing.

💡Cinema

Cinema, in this context, refers to the art of filmmaking and the cultural significance of movies. The script includes a discussion about what constitutes 'cinema' and whether superhero films, particularly those from the MCU, are considered art. The conversation reflects on the broader impact of cinema, its ability to bring people together, and the subjective nature of what is considered cinematic.

💡Mythology

Mythology is a collection of myths, stories, and characters that express the cultural and religious beliefs of a group of people. The script refers to comic book characters like Superman and Batman as part of American mythology, highlighting how these figures have become cultural icons and represent American values and ideals.

💡Vulnerability

Vulnerability in storytelling allows characters to display weaknesses or emotions, making them more human and relatable. The script discusses the importance of vulnerability in characters, such as when superheroes are shown to have breaking points or are not at their peak abilities. This aspect of storytelling adds depth to characters and makes their journeys more engaging and emotionally resonant for the audience.

Highlights

Better Help is thanked for sponsoring the episode, emphasizing the importance of mental health.

The host shares personal struggles with anxiety and depression, advocating for Better Help's services.

Better Help offers online therapy with a global network of licensed counselors, accessible within 48 hours.

The service provides flexibility in changing counselors and scheduling sessions, enhancing convenience.

A special offer for the audience: 10% off the first month with Better Help.

Discussion on the original Spider-Man movies being less favored compared to newer adaptations.

Comparison between Marvel and DC movies, with Marvel being seen as more formulaic and DC as darker and grittier.

A defense for the new DC movies, arguing they are more relatable and have improved over time.

The impact of comic book fandom on personal interests and careers, such as voice acting and art history.

Marvel's appeal lies in its relatability and the humanization of characters before their superpowers.

The MCU's influence on making 'nerd culture' mainstream and the positive impact on representation.

Criticism of the toxic fan culture and the importance of focusing on the positive aspects of characters.

The challenge of being a DC fan in a socially Marvel-dominant environment and the defense of DC's storytelling.

The importance of vulnerability and character development in movies, as seen in 'Infinity War' and the 'Snyder Cut'.

Discussion on the definition of cinema and the subjective nature of art in film, emphasizing the importance of storytelling.

The role of cinema in bringing people together across different ages and backgrounds.

Transcripts

- Before we start this video, we just want

to take a moment to say thank you to Better

Help for sponsoring this episode.

It's so important to take care of your

mental health, and for me personally,

I've struggled with everything from anxiety

to even depression.

I personally sought out Better Help to talk

about a lot of my issues and the things

I was struggling with before I

started Jubilee Media.

So, I am a huge, huge, huge proponent

of Better Health.

They'll actually assess your needs,

like asking you a few questions about yourself,

about what you're interested in working on,

and then match you with your own licensed

professional therapist, and you can start

communicating with them within 48 hours.

With Better Help you have access to over

15,000 licensed counselors from all

over the world, so you aren't limited

to a local area and you can find

something that really suits your needs.

They make it really easy and free to

change counselors if necessary.

You can schedule a weekly video or

phone sessions, so you never have to be

sitting in a waiting room or be uncomfortable.

It's all done online on the platform.

That makes it more affordable than

traditional offline counseling and financial

aid is available too.

It's not a crisis line.

It's not self-help.

It is professional counseling done securely

online and is available to clients worldwide.

Better Help wants you to start living a

happier life today, and of course, we have a

special offer for you guys.

You can get 10% off your first month

at betterhelp.com/jubileemedia.

That's Better Help.

Better H E L P and join the over 1 million

people taking charge of their mental health

with the help of an experienced professional.

Thank you again to Better Help for sponsoring

this episode.

We hope you enjoy.

- The original Spider-Man were not good.

Like I grew up watching those and I

was not a huge fan.

- The Toby?

- No, no, no no.

Yeah, yeah Toby.

- You what?

(intense music plays)

- I look back at my fandoms since I was tiny.

You know, the biggest impact I think for

me has been Batman.

When people were really know comics, they know

what, you know, DC is bringing to the table.

- I could see how they can defend like their

video games and their comics, but I don't know

how they're going to back up the movies.

- No shade, but they're movies aren't that great.

- Ultimately, you see a very cookie cutter

pattern of how Marvel makes their films

versus DC, which is super gritty, super dark.

- I will die on a hill of really apologizing

and loving some of these new movies more

than most people should.

- I think my only expectation really is

to kind of understand, you know, where the

other side's coming from.

How do they connect with someone like Superman,

who to me, has the personality of a brick?

- My name is Ryan.

I'm a philosophy major at university.

I studied art history as well.

The more I think about it, those things tie in

a lot for the reason why I love comics so much.

- Hey I'm Will.

I'm a lifelong, I would say comic book fan,

but really DC Homer as my friend would call me.

Apologists some would say to a certain degree.

- So, I'm Matt, and I am as well, a DC guy.

I'm actually trying to get into voice acting

voiceover.

Like watching all these animated shows and

whatnot.

It's really inspiring to see all these characters

come to life through voice and

whatnot, so that's what I'm trying to do.

- Hi I'm Sarah.

Marvel's pretty much always been like

my favorite genre of movies.

I love watching all the movies.

I really love cinematography and I love how

they're always played out, so yeah, I'm a

Marvel fan.

- I'm Nick And I like Marvel so much that I

bought a 3D printer and started printing a

bunch of props for it.

- Oh yeah, oh yeah.

- I've got a four foot Stormbreaker sitting in

my room, not doing anything.

- I'm Chris.

I'm a Marvel fan.

I wish I could say super fan.

Just within the recent years, I've been getting

like deeper and deeper into it, so there's some

things I may not know about, but I'm cultured

around the areas, so I can get around.

- Unless they're comic book fanatics,

I don't hear anybody talking about the comics,

let alone the shows, even the games or anything.

I only hear the movies.

- Thank you for being the only one here by

the way, because it is challenging, I think,

right now to be a DC fan because of that feeling.

Socially, the conversation is Marvel.

So extremely, that every time DC puts out

a movie, it's like almost expected that

you're supposed to on.

- Right.

- Because it's not as good.

They did it wrong.

Now, have they stumbled along the way?

Tons of times, but I get this feeling

that no one's entering into seeing a DC

movie to just be vulnerable and experience

what they're being given.

- And that's as recency bias, right?

Because Christopher Reeve was Superman launch,

but he also thinks about the Batman,

so Michael Keaton, right, and Jack Nicholson

and even Batman Forever with Val Kilmer,

maybe not so much after that, you know,

but there was no Marvel movies at the time.

The Dark Knight kind of faded into,

into the background when people talk about

DC movies and it's like, those were great films.

- Awesome.

- I mean, we don't have the Marvel Cinematic

Universe, in my opinion, without Batman Begins.

- I'm still on your side guys.

- Did you forget what we were here?

- The movies, TV shows, the video games,

the comic books, the books, when you oversimplify

it to one aspect, you're immediately erasing

thousands of people's hard work and not giving

them the credit that they deserve as they add

to the rest of the brand.

- I guess I'm thinking, could you argue that

simply because of the MCU, more people care.

It used to be that to be a nerd back, even in

the nineties, because I love Spider-Man, X-Men,

all that stuff from the nineties.

Doing cosplay, when I was doing cosplay,

people yelling at me saying stupid

dress up movies, all kinds of stuff.

Now, cosplayers get millions of followers

like on Instagram.

The MCU actually made nerds cool.

- Yeah.

- And so when I think of better, I think like

kind of to your point, detracts from all the

like suffering of the nerds that got kicked.

- I had to go through this to get here.

- So now that the MCU exists, I'm like, oh,

now you want to say it's cool.

Okay.

Fine.

Yeah.

- I do believe some of the comics do better than

some of the Marvel stuff that is out.

Like with all the Spider-man,

the original Spider-Man were not good.

Like I grew up watching those and I was

not a huge fan.

- The Toby?

- No, no, no.

Yeah, yeah, Toby.

I did not.

- What?

- He's worse than Andrew Garfield?

- I see those movies as like corny perfection.

It's like absolute cheese.

- You said it's corny.

- Right, I love that.

- He didn't give me that representation.

I'm an awkward teen.

He was like a very, just dark and brooding,

like more DC.

He just was very not awkward.

How I wanted to see Peter Parker.

- You're telling me that Spider-Man 3

dance wasn't awkward to you.

- I was gonna say.

- That was

- Your generation, especially now, you can see

that you guys don't really like the dark gritty

because.

- Everyone wants, everyone just wants happy

stories.

Everything that's going on right now,

you don't want to see even darker.

- I want the pressure of.

- Yeah, exactly.

- I think DC kind of shows people like what

they already see in humanity.

They're like, wow, our city's actually like this.

Like, is this actually happening?

I feel like people kind of get scared and they're

like, yeah, I don't want to deal with that.

- I'm just gonna run real quick.

- It's just the fact that, especially me

growing up, you could just look at like

these different heroes, like I was like, I'm not

built like no Captain America, but I could relate

to him in the heart is what matters, and so I'm

just like, it's just a seeing every character,

I'm like, oh, that's me, oh wait, that could be

me, and I'm just like, I've just experienced

that with Marvel, and that's just how, let me

just run up in here real quick.

- Peter Parker and his anxiety.

It's so relatable as a teenager and seeing

another teenager get all these super powers,

and he's like, I'm just a kid.

Like, I'm just trying to go to school.

Like I need a break.

- It's kind of a combination between the comics,

the TV shows the, the MCU in total, when you

humanize a character first and then introduce

their abilities, you not only give the

audience time to relate to them and attach

themselves to the character, but give them an

opportunity to see them pre, you know,

superpower, pre, you know, amazingness,

things like that, you know, just make Marvel a

just a bit more relatable to me.

- Welcome.

- Welcome.

- There is an element of DC that I get,

that they are unrelatable.

Superman really is the most obvious cause

he's overpowered.

All these things, but at the same time, at the

core of all that, is this unbreakable goodness.

Like Superman and one of the things I

always found really endearing is he comes

from a different planet.

He has unlimited power, but at the same time,

once he met Ma, Pa Kent, you know, he fell in

love with like the family and being a high

schooler and learning how to acclimate,

and so at the end of the day, they are

dealing with the same human and basic problems

and conflicts that we have, you know.

- I think that's where Zach really tried to

tie it all in is with Batman versus Superman.

PC fans hated.

They were not about it, and it's just like.

- Don't worry.

We did too.

- Everyone hated it.

Exactly.

People were not a fan of it, but it's just like,

he tried to humanize these characters.

That's, that was really an important step

to take because Superman, Batman,

they were never shown to have a breaking point

or be shown as the villain.

Yeah.

But also going back to representation and

relate-ability like, you know.

Asian, not many Asian superheroes, but you know,

with Shang-Chi and all these other characters

I'd give props to Marvel, and as long as it's

not forced and like shoved down to us,

that's what I really don't like,

but as long as it's not shoved down people's

throats and like, you're going to have to

digest this, then I'm all for it.

- And when you guys did bring up Peter Parker

and Spider-Man with that, me being from New York,

and so I was just like, I see him and I see me,

but at the time I was like, oh, you know what,

I want to go to this college too, and I want

to go here and I want to do that, and I'm like,

you know what, hopefully I do get bit by a spider

on the way there.

So, I'm just like, okay, cool.

- I genuinely as a kid and like having,

when it felt like my own superhero backstories,

like losing a parent at a young age,

being kind of a caretaker to her, my mom,

when I was 15 and still losing that person,

it rewired in my brain, many things,

one of which was take care of other people and

put yourself second, put everybody else first

to never show the crack in that it's actually

crippling you trying to be perfect because I

did always try to say like, when you see me,

you're gonna be like, how does he just fly

through life?

You know what I mean?

- Yeah.

- I thought that was healthy, wasn't,

and then once I realized that I actually could be

vulnerable, I could be broken,

and that being broken is more beautiful,

and it makes you more powerful, that sort of

opened up the flood gates of finding those things

in the DC characters, and I think the writers,

especially now in comics, are going that route.

- Do you want to talk about a no

brainer question?

- I was gonna say, I think we can all agree

that every fandom.

- Right

- Every.

Even if it's something as simple as, you know,

someone's title changing or someone becoming

a new hero, you immediately get the people

on Twitter just being like, I hate this person.

I honestly feel really bad for Brie Larson

because she got the brunt of it during that

whole Captain Marvel phase, and personally,

I liked her.

I think she's a great actress.

I think she's

- I don't really see what the problem is.

- I don't either.

- I'm not a big fan of the character,

but I was like, this is fun.

I don't know why people hated her.

- Exactly, and it's when you dehumanize

the actor and treat them as there only that,

that's not being a fan.

That's being an ass.

- I remember when Black Panther came out,

a lot of people refuse to see it because

they call it, they said it's a PC movie.

- Exactly.

- It's just like, there's so much vitriol

in different corners.

I'd like to believe it's not most people, but

like the loudest voices on social media always.

- Always.

- Yes, exactly.

- Because those are the ones that get attention.

- Right, yeah, even the Black Panther,

anything, like there's supposed to be a

black Superman coming out and people are

going to be like, oh yeah, that's born of

the political correctness, but there's been

iterations of.

- Also it's comic books, so why not?

- It's like, it's not only, it's only

limited to just white people and stuff.

- There's a multi-verse for a reason.

- I get toxicity on my end just for being a girl,

and you guys.

- You cannot do that.

- I mean it's all males, but I've never been

like directly targeted at, but I definitely

do get the sense of like, oh, you're a female,

you don't know what you're talking about,

you have no idea, oh, you're younger,

you have no idea what you're talking about.

- I really probably could have came

with everybody.

I think the only reason why I didn't was because

it was prefaced by saying my community.

I just, I'm not on Twitter, I'm not on

Instagram, and so I don't, I'm ignorant to it,

I guess, is what it is.

I had a weird situation.

I would be, I guess, more in the jock

category growing up in the sense of that was

more my reputation, I suppose,

but anyone who knew me and hey,

my friends came over to my house,

like when I started dating, like

in high school and that girls came over my house.

I had action figures everywhere.

You know, so the jig was up.

You know what I mean?

This is really who I am and what I'm

really about, and I always found I got

a great reaction from that.

I think if, if people buy too much into the, the,

the toxic nature of Marvel versus DC or whatever

the movies and their gripes on it,

they're losing a chance to focus on the

positive of the character and why they love it.

- C'mon bro, I'm going for it.

- They know it too.

- They know what's up.

- They know their place.

- I think that's why that the conversation is

Marvel connects more with like the real person

because DC does feel like Titans.

You know what I mean?

And to me, comic books are American mythology.

I heard that somewhere in a documentary

and it's true.

You know, we don't have like an American mythos

outside of like Paul Bunyan and like some

silly stuff.

It's super heroes is really what it is.

- Yeah.

- And Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, these

like, you know, Atlas holding the world on

their shoulders figures, so it's like,

it's always them.

Batman's like plan to defeat everyone is just I'm

Batman and everyone on earth goes, he's right.

- Get out of the way.

- Yeah.

- I mean if we're gonna get down to the

brass of it, you know, pissed off Superman,

good luck.

Someone taken out the big dog, you know?

- Always see these videos on YouTube, like,

oh yeah, Superman versus Hulk, Batman versus

Ironman.

It's like, it's all made up, so

people have their own opinions.

- And listen until Superman fights Goku.

We know that's the reason.

- See, we're not all delusional.

- I mean, this isn't even the question.

Like the Justice League is way overpowered,

like way overpowered.

- Right.

- I would just say they're brutalities a

lot more severe compared to Marvel characters,

and that was like the only thing that came

to mind, I was saying MCU is a little bit more

light and fluffy, so they have a little bit

more humanistic like thoughts, and I just

feel like they would completely just destroyed

them.

Unfortunately.

- I guess my only question would be, you know,

if you want to pit one person

another person, you know, the whole argument

that I hear a lot with, you know, DC fans is

Batman with prep time.

- With prep time.

- Always wins.

- What is that argument because he's just

a dude.

- I've never made that argument because

honestly the argument is usually he's already

had the prep time.

- Okay.

- That's always the twist is like.

- So, you just assume he's already

figured it out.

- Batman is prepared for every plot.

Like his mind is like, I've calculated 17

million outcomes.

- Like Dr. Strange, essentially.

- He's Doctor Strange, yeah,

like if they were together in a movie, Dr.

Strange was like I saw these outcomes, he'd be

like, yeah, I did too.

And as a reader too, not just a viewer,

I do get bored of that.

You know what I mean?

Because then there's almost no stakes,

cause it's like Batman knew all along,

I was like, oh cool, so it wasn't even,

it didn't even matter, you know?

- You know what I liked about Infinity War

and the Snyder cut was the level of dread

you felt for the characters and what they

were having to go through in order to get

to their goal, and their goal was not

ultimately met, especially with, I got so

emotional after Infinity War, and my head

literally hurt after watching that.

Having the character to be vulnerable,

like not having them at their peak is very

important for the audience to be able to

relate and to be able to feel for their

characters.

- Right.

- Well, what does he know about making movies?

Right?

- I think we all are going to disagree pretty

heavy with that one.

If you look at not just the numbers and

not just the worldwide success, but also the

stories and the emotions and the ebb and flow

of the storytelling.

I think they're definitely not only cinematic,

but some of the best examples of art that

a worldwide audience of different ages and

a lot of different people can come together

and watch it and enjoy, you know, or maybe

sometimes a more boutique or arty film might not

have that same, you know, response.

- Yeah.

- I think that the second you try to put

ground rules on what art is you

fundamentally don't understand.

You're missing the point of art.

- Yeah.

- Absolutely.

- Like, how do you define cinema?

- Right.

- You can't.

There's no cookie cutter definition of, okay,

this movie is cinema, but like Shrek 2 is not like.

- High cinema.

- High cinema, but it's that type of thing

where if you decide that things have limits,

you're already, not only limiting the audience,

but you're limiting creative freedom, you know,

if someone comes along and says, oh, that's

not cinema, what are you telling the future

filmmakers that what they want to do is not

considered cinema you're immediately, you know,

trashing what these new people want to do.

- It brings people together is the biggest thing.

I think a cinema can do that.

Yeah.

- I mean, me and my dad watch it together.

Me and my mom, me and my friends,

and we're all different ages.

That's like the point of cinema, so.

(everybody talking amongst themselves)