Peter Hitchens condemns 'appalling and disgraceful' George Galloway on his Holocaust comments
Summary
TLDRThe video transcript captures a heated discussion revolving around the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, George Galloway's controversial comments equating actions in Gaza to the Holocaust, and the complex dynamics of UK and US politics. Prominent figures Peter Hitchens and Jerry Baker engage in a thought-provoking debate, dissecting Galloway's statements, Israel's response in Gaza, and the role of Islam in left-wing politics. Additionally, they delve into the legal battles surrounding Donald Trump's eligibility for the 2024 US presidential election, speculating on potential surprise Democratic candidates and Joe Biden's capabilities as president.
Takeaways
- 😲 George Galloway's comparison of the Gaza conflict to the Holocaust is considered outrageous and disgraceful by political commentators.
- 🤷♂️ There is confusion and lack of consensus on where to stand regarding the Israel-Palestine conflict, with people either supporting Israel unconditionally or allying with conservative Islamic views.
- ⚖️ While some actions by Israel in Gaza are condemned as wrong and disproportionate, it is possible to support Israel's right to exist while criticizing specific policies.
- 🇺🇸 The 2024 US presidential race is seen as a foregone conclusion, with Trump expected to be the Republican nominee and Biden the Democratic nominee, despite concerns about Biden's age and effectiveness.
- ⚖️ Legal efforts to remove Trump from the presidential ballot due to the Capitol riots were rejected by the Supreme Court, which ruled unanimously that states do not have the authority to do so.
- 🤔 There is speculation about whether the Democrats might replace Biden as their candidate at a later stage, given concerns about his age and performance.
- 🔥 Trump's ability to galvanize opposition and legal challenges against him often backfires and ends up benefiting him politically.
- 💥 The efforts to prevent Trump from being on the ballot are seen as counterproductive and elevating him to a martyr status, reinforcing his claims of being a victim of a 'witch hunt'.
- 👴 Polls indicate growing concerns about Biden's age and effectiveness, with a majority of his own supporters from 2020 now saying he is too old to be an effective president.
- 🤷♀️ There is uncertainty about who is truly running the country, with questions about whether Biden is fully in control or relying heavily on a supporting staff structure.
Q & A
What is Peter Hitchens's view on comparing the actions in Gaza with the Holocaust?
-Peter Hitchens finds the comparison of the actions in Gaza with the Holocaust by individuals like George Galloway to be outrageous and disgraceful, emphasizing that such comparisons are entirely unacceptable.
What does Peter Hitchens say about the current state of support for Israel?
-Peter Hitchens notes that the spectrum of support for Israel has shifted, with people who previously might not have shown strong support for Israel now vocally supporting its government's actions. He personally condemns the bombardment of Gaza, differentiating his stance from those who uncritically support Israel's actions.
How does the script describe the political landscape in relation to Israel and Palestine?
-The script describes a polarized political landscape, where individuals are seen as either uncritically supporting Israel or aligning with a faction of the left that allies with socially conservative Islamic viewpoints, creating confusion for those who seek a more nuanced or moderate position.
What are Jerry Baker's thoughts on Donald Trump's legal challenges and political resistance?
-Jerry Baker believes that the numerous legal challenges and attempts to disqualify Donald Trump from ballots only help Trump by reinforcing his narrative of being a victim of a witch hunt, suggesting that these efforts inadvertently support his political agenda.
What was Peter Hitchens's reaction to the unanimous Supreme Court decision about Donald Trump?
-Peter Hitchens expressed unease about the unanimous decision by the Supreme Court to reject attempts to remove Donald Trump from the ballot, wondering about the implications of such a rare consensus among the justices.
What speculation does Jerry Baker discuss regarding the Democratic nomination for the upcoming election?
-Jerry Baker speculates about the possibility of the Democratic party introducing a surprise candidate to stand against Donald Trump, given the perceived weakness of current potential nominees and the desire to find a viable alternative.
What concerns are raised about Joe Biden's candidacy in the script?
-Concerns are raised about Joe Biden's age and effectiveness as president, with polling indicating that a significant portion of his previous supporters now view him as too old to be an effective leader.
How does the script address the issue of anti-Semitism within the Labour Party?
-The script discusses efforts by the Labour Party, under Kia Starmer, to address and reform its image concerning allegations of anti-Semitism that were associated with the party during Jeremy Corbyn's leadership.
What is the perspective on George Galloway's political stance and actions?
-George Galloway is portrayed as a polarizing figure who, despite being recognized for his intelligence, often directs it towards what are seen as the wrong ends, with his actions and statements generating controversy and considered by some as dangerous.
What does Peter Hitchens say about the concept of bombing as a solution in conflict situations?
-Peter Hitchens criticizes the idea of using bombing in populated areas as a solution, arguing that it is not only morally wrong but also ineffective in addressing the underlying issues or defeating the ideas behind the conflict.
Outlines
🌍 Political Polarization and Super Tuesday Apathy
The discussion opens with criticism towards George Galloway's comparison of actions in Gaza to the Holocaust, describing it as outrageous and disgraceful. The narrative highlights the difficulty of finding a middle ground in modern politics, especially concerning Israel's policies under Benjamin Netanyahu. It touches upon the polarizing political spectrum, where the right staunchly supports Israel, and some on the left align with conservative Islamic views. The script also covers the lack of enthusiasm for Super Tuesday, seen as a foregone conclusion with Trump and Biden as the presumed nominees. Despite poor polling for Biden, there's speculation about his potential stepping down. The segment ends on the anticipation of a discussion about the upcoming general election and its key issues, including a focus on Muslim voters and civil liberties.
🔍 George Galloway's Political Influence and the State of UK Politics
This segment delves into George Galloway's success in the Rochdale by-election and his controversial stance on issues like Israel and Islam. It discusses Galloway's intelligence and political astuteness despite disagreement with his approaches and views. The narrative explores the complexity of UK politics, especially within the Labour Party, and Galloway's impact on it. Despite skepticism about Galloway's apocalyptic language comparing current times to 1940, the script highlights the significant Muslim vote in Rochdale, pointing out the challenges Labour faces with its voter base and the potential implications for future elections.
🤔 Political Divisions and the Gaza Conflict
This paragraph addresses the deeply polarized views on Israel's actions in Gaza, contrasting the support for Israel with criticisms of its military actions. It discusses the challenge of supporting Israel while condemning its tactics in Gaza, amidst the broader context of polarized political views where one is often forced to pick a side. The script critiques extreme comparisons made by figures like George Galloway and discusses the difficulty of finding rational discourse in a highly polarized environment. The conversation also touches on the strange alliances formed in politics, where traditional left-wing values seem to align with conservative Islamic philosophies.
📜 Reflecting on Israel's Response to Attacks and Political Narratives
This segment reflects on Israel's military response to attacks and the strategic mistakes it might have made. The discussion argues that Israel missed an opportunity to highlight its existence's justification due to the hatred against Jews, instead of focusing on military retaliation. The segment criticizes the use of legal systems to tackle political disagreements in the U.S., noting a unanimous Supreme Court decision preventing Donald Trump's removal from ballots. It questions whether such judicial unanimity suggests an avoidance of controversy rather than a clear stance, and contemplates the potential for the Democratic Party to present a surprise candidate against Trump.
🇺🇸 U.S. Political Dynamics and Speculations on Biden's Candidacy
This paragraph explores the speculations around President Joe Biden's potential to run for re-election, considering his age and effectiveness. It discusses the challenges in replacing a sitting president who does not wish to step down and the impact of legal challenges on Donald Trump's political fortunes. The narrative questions the strategy of using legal avenues to disqualify Trump from ballots, suggesting it only strengthens his victim narrative. The script also ponders the Democratic Party's strategy for the upcoming election, hinting at the possibility of introducing a new candidate to challenge Trump.
🔮 Predictions and Reflections on U.S. Political Landscape
The final segment wraps up with further speculation on the U.S. political landscape, focusing on the difficulties of displacing an incumbent president like Joe Biden without his willingness to step aside. It reflects on Biden's waning support among his previous voters due to concerns over his age and effectiveness, raising questions about who truly governs the country. The script anticipates the discussion on the Republicans overseas event, Super Tuesday, and the potential surprises in the run-up to the election. It emphasizes the unpredictability of political developments and the strategic mistakes that could benefit Donald Trump's campaign.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Gaza
💡Holocaust
💡Anti-Semitism
💡Israel
💡Insurrection
💡Super Tuesday
💡Conservative
💡Supreme Court
💡Impeachment
💡Biden
Highlights
George Galloway comparing the actions in Gaza with the Holocaust is outrageous and disgraceful.
It's perfectly possible to be a supporter of Israel and also criticize the policies of Benjamin Netanyahu as wrong and a mistake.
There is confusion about where a normal thinking person fits in the Israel-Palestine debate, as people are either blindly pro-Israel or align themselves with the socially conservative philosophy of Islam on the left.
Both the Republican and Democratic party's presidential races are essentially already over, with Trump and Biden as presumptive nominees.
Attention is turning to the general election, with polling looking terrible for Biden and Trump seeming to get stronger.
There is speculation that Biden may step down and someone else may step in as the Democratic nominee, though it is considered unlikely.
Galloway's claim that the next election will be about Muslims and civil liberties is seen as a way to exploit Labor's weakness and appeal to Muslim voters.
While supporting Israel, Peter Hitchens condemns the bombardment of populated cities like Gaza as unacceptable behavior.
The British political spectrum is completely shattered, with no clear alignment on issues like Israel and Palestine.
Jerry Baker argues that Israel's actions in Gaza are a response to Hamas' attacks and its use of civilian shields, putting responsibility for civilian deaths primarily on Hamas.
Peter Hitchens believes Israel missed an opportunity to gain Western public opinion by not clearly stating that the conflict is fundamentally about the hatred of Jews, which is the reason for Israel's existence.
The unanimous Supreme Court ruling against removing Trump from the ballot only helps Trump and reinforces his claims of being victimized.
Peter Hitchens wonders if the Democratic side is planning to find a surprise candidate other than Biden to stand against Trump.
Jerry Baker speculates that it is very hard to remove a president who doesn't want to go, and Biden may not want to step down despite his dire situation.
A New York Times/Sienna College poll showed that 61% of Biden's 2020 voters now say he is too old to be an effective president.
Transcripts
the appalling statements of of people
such as George Galloway comparing the
the however wrong the actions are in
Gaza comparing them with the with the
Holocaust I think that's just outrageous
disgraceful it's perfectly possible for
people in civilized politics who are
supporters of Israel and believe that it
it should continue to exist and be
defended to say equally this policy
adopted by by Benjamin Netanyahu is
wrong has been from the start a mistake
as I've said but I don't get a hearing
for that because you're either at the
moment apparently on the one side or the
other yeah
you the new right which says Israel can
do no wrong uh or you're or or you're on
this strange area of the left where
where where people who are socially and
and morally and politically on the left
Ally themselves with Islam which is in
fact in general a highly socially
conservative philosophy I can't work out
where the normal thinking person fits in
here and I again I look on it with with
with some confusion when I I cannot be
on either side is there a tickle in
everyone's tummy ahead of super Tuesday
Jerry or does it feel like a foregone
conclusion I wonder what the appetite
for it is over
there no uh I don't think anybody's
excited it's uh it's it's the flattest
super Tuesday I can recall actually
because I don't think we've ever had a
situation like this where the both
parties um races are essentially already
over we know you know Trump's going to
be the nominee for the Republicans and
Biden's going to be the nominee for the
Democrats I think what is interesting is
I think attention is already turning to
the general election and I think the the
polling right now for Joe Biden is so
terrible and but Trump seems to be
getting stronger that I think there is
an interesting Buzz around how bad is it
for Biden Biden's obviously also got his
to the union speech on Thursday and is
and and once again speculation that
maybe Biden kind of steps down somebody
else steps in that's picking up again I
think it's very unlikely but I think
that's where the interest is rather than
definitely worth talking about is it B
New York Times Sienna College reading
polling that I was reading the other
evening we'll talk about talk a bit more
about that we've got a tickle in our
tummy ahead of CA Tuesday because we
have been let out of the studio tomorrow
we're at Republicans overseas it's an
event in central London uh so we'll be
you know seeking the opinions not just
of super Tuesday but also how the
Republicans carry this forward and what
what a you know presidency a second term
under Donald Trump might look like so
all that's going on for us tomorrow
Peter Hitchens joins us as well this
evening at M on EC colist and author and
you are a great lover of not just UK
politics but American politics as well
Peter so I'm sure you'll be keeping your
eyes open ahead of tomorrow's Super
Cheese day well I go far as a lover of
American politics I find it immensely
frustrating and annoying uh but yeah a
comment I lived in Washington DC for two
years and I got so annoyed with American
politics that I responded by going off
and traveling around the country as as
far away and as often as I could uh I've
never really been one of those people
who gets particularly engaged with it
and at the moment I find it immensely
frustrating and annoying because there's
nobody it seems to me that anybody
intelligent or thoughtful can identify
with who's taking part in it and you see
a a a great country once a very
civilized country apparently determined
to to if not to destroy itself to do
itself immense damage and it's it's it's
annoying to have to watch that far away
we will um speak to Jerry Who's over
there um living over there and uh
immersed amongst it whether it really is
um as gloomy as all that uh in a short
while if you're listening to this and
you want to get involved with our two
big brains Peter Hitchens and Jerry
Baker you can get involved whatsa uh 0
triple3 uh 03
2353 it's free convenient super easy and
it comes straight through to us here in
the studio so you can WhatsApp us with
your thoughts and you can also text us
in the normal way 87 trouble to start
your message with the word times now
let's let's let's focus on UK politics
first of all because the leader of the
Workers Party George Galloway he of
course won the Rochdale byelection he
took his seat in the House of Commons
today uh he spoke after being sworn in
as an MP and criticized the lack of
leadership in government I think that we
stand at a very dangerous Crossroads in
our country's Affairs perhaps as
dangerous as any
since the uh Summer and Autumn of 1940
41 and there's no Mr Churchill in this
picture there's no one it seems able to
step forward and steady the ship of
state and begin to Rally unite uh our
people okay you also gave his thoughts
on which key issues will dominate this
year's election the next election will
be about most Muslims and will be about
the taking away of civil liberties in
this country it sunak last hope I pray
for the social peace of our country that
it's a foron hope George gay there he's
he's also said uh that he um is after
Angela Rena's Aston underly constituency
it neighbors his Rochdale one he feels
that there's a majority there that he
can bite into and has encouraged the
former labor leader Jeremy Corbin to
launch and lead a coalition of social
Progressive campaigners to contest seats
at the general election Peter Hitchens
let's come across to you you may not
like uh George Galloway the person but I
think it's important to look at what
he's saying and whether there are grains
of Truth there that we should think
about what do you make of
it well I've had many incars with George
Galloway mainly actually in TV and radio
Studios and I've never doubted that he's
an intelligent person it's always
distressed me that he often turns his
intelligence to what seem to me to be
wrong ends and says things which are
both foolish and and in some ways
dangerous and I dislike that intensely
and I think he does how should I put it
rather more harm than good I think the
labor party is in a bigger mess than it
appears to be I don't think George
Galloway is the best person to remind us
of that or to put it right I think that
he's he's he's certainly found a very
grave weakness in st's position and he's
exploiting it like anything as he always
does and he's a very astute and clever
campaigner and he succeeded in Rochdale
when a lot of people thought that he
wouldn't and you have to take that
seriously but to convert that a
byelection results into some kind of
national party or national challenge is
probably uh a a great deal more than he
or anybody else can achieve and as for
his slightly apocalyptic language about
it being the same as 1940 I think that's
just gibberish
um Jerry what do you make of this from
afar George Galloway you know clearly
standing on the left we've heard a lot
about the conservative party leaning to
the right we've seen uh Kia starma try
and uh remain as Centrist as he possibly
can and still try and satisfy his MPS
which is sort of a work in progress in
some areas anyway but here you have a
candidate a socialist candidate clearly
on the left putting that perspective
forward and I want wonder I wonder
whether we haven't heard enough of that
here in this country where we need to
entertain the right the center and the
left and we haven't done a lot for the
left well it's ironic isn't it uh Kama
spent couple of years several years sort
of trying to exate the stain of
anti-Semitism from his party that was
very much associated with Jeremy Corbin
you know his predecessor and I think on
the whole did a reasonable job of
persuading people has done a reasonable
job persuading people that the labor
party had gone horribly and too many too
many anti- seites in in the party and
the party had reformed itself only to
discover that of course the the the
anti- seite sort of termites um you know
are there and ready to um to undermine
him I mean this I mean I think this idea
first of all I agree with Peter about
what um Galloway said in an absurd
notion that it's 1940 all over again it
does wa make you wonder by the way if
George Galloway had been around in 1940
which side he would have been on but
given given some of the things um that
he says and for him to invoke Winston
Churchill is going to you know produce
sort of guffa of laughter I think from
from anyone who knows either him or
knows anything about British history in
Winston Churchill but you know this idea
that he's putting about this next
election is going to be about Muslims um
I mean if he means it's going to be
about people like him who say things uh
about Israel um that Israel's committing
a genocide for example or whatever or or
indeed I think I heard him I think I
read somewhere that he'd actually
had the absolute shame and dishonor to
say to describe what's going on in in in
Gaza as a holocaust as another as
another holocause yeah um mean if I mean
if he's you know but but I think it does
show the if if that's all true it's
despicable but it does show I do think
labor has a problem I think there are a
very significant number of um Muslim
voters in a lot not by any means the
majority not by any means perhaps
anything more than a small minority
strong yeah but strongly strongly uh as
we saw I know there's a very low turnout
in Rochdale and all of that and he
probably will lose the general election
but but but but but but are willing to
come out and vote for someone who says
things like that and that does show you
know Labor's problem Labor's going to
win the next election with a sizable
majority but it looks like it's going to
have a significant number of MPS who are
you know you do you say on the left Kate
but I mean these are again this is a um
you know this is this is this is a
strand of opinion yeah that is
powerfully very very has a very very
distinct take on Islam and on the Middle
East in particular and I think that is
going to be a bit of a problem and we
don't have to associate those with the
left I do associate George Galloway as
you know as on the left very very
clearly on the left polarizing so
sometimes he's a socialist he's very
clear about what he stands for uh
Muslims don't have to Veer to the left
but they do want to have a voice and
there are other people who aren't Muslim
who also want to have their voices while
I worked on Friday morning after that
election result was announced in
Rochdale he was of course you know won
that fairly George Galloway with his
message uh that he was taking the fight
over Gaza to Kia starma in his in his
Winner's speech he said this is for Gaza
he was really clear about how he felt
about that the Muslim population here in
the UK 6.5% but I think he's got to not
just talk about this is for Muslims I
think he's got to talk about other
people who aren't Muslim but who believe
and they were plenty of them texting in
and whatsapping in I mean and absolutely
tons of them actually messaging in on
Friday morning saying good I'm glad
someone's finally clearly saying that
that there is something awful going on
in Gaza and that Israel's being too
harsh someone who's been really clear
okay they might not call it a genocide
I'm sure that they won't but that that
uh enough is enough Israel has gone too
far in its respon in in its response and
it's disproportionate yes Peter well
here's the thing the whole spectrum of
British Politics as it once was is
completely shattered nobody knows where
they stand or anything I for instance I
I look at all this with a great deal of
confusion for many years I've thought
that I was probably one of the most
dogged and determined supporters and
Defenders of Israel in the country I
suddenly find myself surrounded by
people on the right who probably a year
ago couldn't have found Israel on a map
who are tremendously supportive of the
of the actions of the current Israeli
government in bombarding G Gaza now
although I am a a very strong supporter
of Israel I think the bombardment of
Gaza and the in general the bombardment
of populated cities is completely
unacceptable behavior and entirely wrong
and I condemn it with that hesitation
but I absolutely uh do not confuse that
position with the appalling statements
of of people such as George Galloway
comparing the the however wrong the
actions are in Gaza comparing them with
the with the Holocaust I think that's
just outrageous disgraceful it's
perfectly possible for people in
civilized politics who are supporters of
Israel and believe that it it should
continue to exist and be defended to say
equally this policy adopted by by
Benjamin Netanyahu is wrong has been
from the start a mistake as I've said
but I get a hearing for that uh because
you're either at the moment apparently
on the one side or the other yeah
you the new right which says Israel can
do no wrong uh or you're or or you're on
this strange area of the left where
where where people who are socially and
and morally and politically on the left
Ally themselves with Islam which is in
fact in general a highly socially
conservative philosophy I can't work out
where the normal thinking person fits in
here and I again I look on it with with
some
confusion I I cannot be on either side
and I don't think I could be the only
person who looks to this way I'm neither
on Mr M Mr Galloway's side nor K st's
side
yeah it's that it's that none of the
above uh situation none of the below as
it as I wish it were on
Jerry below I mean can I just say I'll
say two quick things one I do support
what Israel is doing I think it is
um Israel was attacked on October 7th uh
by by an organization which is which
which runs Gaza which uses Gaza as its
base which hides among the civilian of
Gaza the responsibility for the for the
deaths of civilians in Gaza lies
primarily with Hamas if they hadn't
carried out October 7th what they did on
October 7th and if they hadn't um hidden
themselves among and if they would
simply you know if they if they would
hand over the hostages which they took
and abs you know many of them they've
murdered but the ones that they haven't
murdered if they would hand the
remaining remaining hostages over agree
for for the first time in their history
that Israel has a right to exist and
stop um you know their constant attacks
on Israeli civilians then they would be
then this war would be at an end
instantly there would be no no further
need for it but let me just say one
other very quick thing about Galloway I
know we shouldn't waste too much time on
him but it's incredibly ironic to hear
George Galloway talk about the standing
up for Muslims when he literally well
almost literally kissed the rings of um
of two men who have probably murdered
more Muslims multiple times more Muslims
than than Israel has killed uh in its
entire existence that's of course Saddam
Hussein and Bashar Assad who between
them have killed literally millions of
millions of their own people who of
course promly Muslims so this these
crocodile tears that George Galloway uh
deploys for his own political benefit I
find utterly utterly deplorable look um
can I just can just make a point Kate
one last Point October the 7th and it's
this is the ton point that what what
Israel has done in response to O 7 isn't
is is not just very seriously wrong it's
also a mistake now it would have been
very difficult that it wouldn't have
been impossible for Israel to say this
after October the 7th to stand there and
say look this is what our enemies have
done to us this is nothing to do with
our failure to negotiate a two-state
solution this is nothing to do with the
treatment we we we we give to people in
the West Bank this is nothing to do with
anything of that kind what has been
proven by this attack on o 7th is that
we have people living right next to us
who hate us because we're Jews and that
is why they have done this atrocity and
this illustrates something which has
been forgotten by much of the world
really since since the 1960s that that
is why Israel exists and by holding and
staying their hand at that point and
saying this is this is not about
anything other than than the hatred of
Jews which is the reason why why we
exist Israel could have reached a gain
towards the Western public opinion which
it is losing it is losing the support of
Western public opinion rapidly I think
in the United States now to the point
where it cannot in future necessarily
rely on the enormous support both in
military terms and in United Nations
security Council terms which has kept it
safe I think this was a very grave
mistake it's all very well saying yes of
course hamus no doubt that the J Baker
like me has been to Gaza and seen how
it's run has met people there who
actually loathe being run by Hamas and
who are who are now suffering hamus is
not suffering particularly and doesn't
much care if it does its leadership is
in Qatar anyway the by bombarding in
Gaza they haven't punished Hamas they P
punished the people of Gaza and as
anyone who's watched that fantastic film
The Battle of algers knows you cannot
defeat an idea with Armed Force it
simply will never work and even if you
could even if as Israel has failed to do
you could defeat Hamas militarily on the
in Gaza and they haven't done that and
even if you could have saved the
hostages which they plainly have not
done then you would still have the
problem at the end that you would have
even if it were not hamus you would have
Gaza a strong and continuing
resistance I'm going have to leave it
there Peter I'm going to have to leave
it there otherwise we'll never get on to
any other discussion points you've both
been fascinating on this I'm enjoying
hearing what you've got to say uh we'll
talk Donald Trump that's coming up in
just a moment here on the Evening
Edition Peter Hitchens and Jerry Baker
with us Peter Hitchens the mail on
Sunday columnist and author and Jerry
Baker as well Times columnist and editor
at large of the Wall Street Journal uh
let's talk Donald Trump then the US
super Supreme Court has rejected
Colorado State's attempts to remove
Donald Trump from the ballot for US
president he's been restored then for
the uh primary takes place tomorrow the
court rejected claims that he was
accountable for the capital riots in
2021 more widely it means that states
now have no authority to remove him from
the presidential ballot uh in 2024 in
November this year um uh due to the
Insurrection or due to an accusation
that he was responsible for Insurrection
um Donald Trump I know has spoken uh
after the ruling today I think I'm
interested to hear from you Jerry first
of all what about those people in the
states who say but this isn't fair um
the legal system is is unfair it means
that a man who incited an Insurrection
who said time and time again that it
wasn't his fault that he didn't
encourage things people who don't
believe that point people who feel that
Donald Trump is divisive uh and is you
know wrong in what he's standing for
what do you say to those people who say
this isn't fair this isn't what what US
politics should be about he's a crook
I'd say the United States has a
Constitution and the law is enforced
according to the Constitution the it's
ironic you say you know Donald Trump has
been divisive and terrible for the
country has actually managed for one of
the very few certainly high-profile
political cases actually managed to
unite the entire Supreme Court of the
United I hav't said that by the way I'm
saying what about what about
people completely it's not you but but
you know that was a there are six um
Republican appointed justices on the
Supreme Court and three Democrat
appointed justices on the Supreme Court
on big political issues and
constitutional issues they sometimes
they quite often differ on this they
were nine to zero the three liberal
Progressive justices one appointed by
Joe Biden to appointed by um by Barack
Obama uh all agreed with with the others
that this was a this was a ridiculous
effort that that states do not under the
Constitution states do not have the
right to determine whether or not
someone could can can can be on the
national ballot for the election on the
grounds of that particular Amendment of
the Constitution which was established
which was written uh and imp and written
into law after the after the Civil War
look what I'd say Kate more broadly is
this that you know Donald Trump just
whatever one thinks of Donald Trump and
you know he faces many more legal
challenges yet and by the way he'll
probably unite the court court against
him in the next case that is that the
Court Supreme Court's considering which
is whether or not he has presidential
immunity from prosecution that way we'll
go 90 against him so there is you know
there there is there is Broad consensus
here on one of the one of the outward
are the the core principles of the law
what I'd say about is that Trump just
has this ability extraordinary ability
to um animate people against him and to
make them do things that actually in the
end rebound to their disadvantage and to
his Advantage this CA this case that
that Colorado this this attempt that
Colorado had to try to to kick him off
the ballot and few other states have
tried it too was always an
extraordinarily Longshot implausible and
as we've now seen unconstitutional thing
to do and they just hand Donald Trump
these victories it's going to be the
same with so many of these legal cases
he faces this prosecution uh in Georgia
right now where the prosecutor is under
tremendous pressure and investigation as
to whether or not she behaved improperly
she May will end up that case may will
end up going nowhere the case he faces
here in New York City in New York City
uh is a ridiculous case most lawyers
would agree um that has absolutely no
basis whatsoever in in federal law but
it's being brought here at the state
level and then there are other cases
that have been that the two other big
cases that he faces are obviously
relating to um you know his handling of
documents and another case relating to
the overthrow of the attempt to overturn
the election look I think what Donald
Trump did after November the after
November the 3D last year and before and
up to AB including January the 6th well
in the last election was terrible was
indefensible he should have been
impeached he was imp beached he should
have been convicted and removed from
office but those are the Constitutional
remedies that there is a constitutional
remedy there when somebody behaves like
that uh he was impeached by the House of
Representatives the Senate then hears a
trial and it declined to convict him in
my view that was a mistake but that's
once that's done that's it those are the
remedies that the constitution give you
for that kind of a behavior and if the
American if they're represented the
American people through their
representatives in the Senate didn't do
that then that I'm sorry that's the law
so now we've got to do so instead of
coming up with all of these these rather
sort of um uh Barack uh interpretations
of the law to try and get him off the
ballot or get him disqualified those are
the that the law is there and is very
very clearly there and by doing this and
this is what is tragic for those who
people who don't want Donald Trump to be
reelected by going through these Extreme
Measures to try to prevent him from
being on the ballot they only help him
in the end they elevate him to a kind of
Marty status they reinforce the uh
message that he gives that he's being
victimized that he's the victim of a
Witch Hunt these they are making
terrible terrible mistakes in doing this
they are only helping Trump in doing
this whereas where they should leave
this it is a political matter it should
be left to the politic to to to the
representatives and ultimately to the
people to decide whether or not he's fit
for office
Peter Well I completely agree with Jerry
Baker that these court cases do nothing
but help Donald Trump I think there's
been a kind of disease in the United
States really since the days of Richard
Nixon where people try and obstruct and
get rid of political figures they don't
like through the legal system rather
than through the democratic system I
think it's done a lot of damage
continues to do so but on the other hand
I have a slightly uneasy feeling about
an absolutely unanimous verdict from the
United States Supreme Court a very rare
thing indeed and I have to wonder why
that should be the case and I wonder
whether it's simply that the court
doesn't want to to to take any risks
under these circumstances and can see
clearly that that Trump's support isn't
going to be abated by this For Heaven's
Sake if they rued the other way imagine
the consequences it it just none of this
will work and what puzzles me and I
wonder if Jerry baker has any
speculations on it because I've heard
some quite amusing ones whether in fact
the Democratic side of this election is
planning somehow or other at a late
stage in in the matter around about the
nomination time uh to find another
candidate apart from Joe Biden who might
conceivably stand successfully against
Donald Trump and Donald Trump won the
first time because the Democratic party
picked the probably the only person in
America uh who couldn't beat Donald
Trump in the shape of Hillary Clinton uh
I don't know quite how how much effort
they've put into to to so putting all
their strength and muscle behind poor
old President Biden under the current
circumstances or whether really they're
just waiting till later to come up with
a with with with a surprise candidate
who might but at the moment they got
nothing to say yeah speculation about
that 30 seconds left Jerry um apologies
we'll be really late to the news
butri continu to be speculation about
that look but a pres it's very hard to
remove a president if he doesn't want to
go and you know I've said this before I
think in my column and on on your on
your program on your on your program
Kate that you know John McCain famously
said the only known cure for
presidential ambition is EMB barming
um and you know with with Joe Biden we
might unfortunately be close to testing
that proposition um he if if he doesn't
want to go and there's no evidence that
he wants to go it's very very hard to
get rid of him as as dire as his
situation and indeed the situation of
the country increasingly looks it's very
very hard to dislodge a president a
president from um you know either from
office or indeed from being the nominee
of his party when he's been elected as
the nominee of his part of his Parts
yeah look I I mentioned this poll
earlier and and I'll just round it off
with that it was a new poll by the New
York times in Sienna College um for
those voters who backed Joe Biden four
years ago 61% now say that he's just too
old to Be an Effective president and
this runs through um so much polling at
the moment that he's too old that he's
ineffective it makes you wonder who is
running the country at the moment is it
really Joe Biden or you know is it all
about now having a structure of Staff
around him beneath him who can support
him as the president only for short
periods of time in public more than the
work that goes on behind the scenes look
we we will talk more about that uh super
Tuesday tomorrow we will be at the
Republicans overseas event we'll talk
about Donald Trump now what has he got
planned for his uh for his presidency in
office if he gets there what about Joe
Biden what happens before the election
are there are there surprises to be had
are there unpredictabilities ahead of it
uh let's see listen I've really enjoyed
hearing from both of you today two big
brains discussing some of the big
subjects of the day Jerry Baker Times
columnist editor at large of the Wall
Street Journal thanks to you Jerry and
Peter hit much cheers Peter Hitchens
mail on Sunday columnist and author good
to speak you again Peter thank you thank
you uh two excellent guests there listen
much to
the
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