Lampard: Management, Chelsea & Golden Generation Myth | Stick to Football EP 16

Summary

In this dynamic and insightful discussion, Frank Lampard reflects on his football career, management experiences, and the evolving landscape of football. From the impactful arrival of Jose Mourinho at Chelsea, instilling a winning mentality, to the challenges and strategic shifts at Chelsea under new ownership, Lampard offers a deep dive into the intricacies of football success. He shares personal anecdotes, including advice from his mother to stay humble and rise above challenges. Lampard also discusses the potential and struggles of Mason Mount at Manchester United, emphasizing the importance of adaptation and resilience. This conversation not only highlights Lampard's journey through football as a player and manager but also sheds light on the broader changes in football dynamics and the role of management in nurturing talent.

Takeaways

• 😀 Jose Mourinho had a huge positive impact when he first joined Chelsea - brought confidence, clear direction and a winning mentality
• 😮 Roman Abramovich could be very harsh in his criticisms of the team, but it created a ruthless culture and winning mentality at Chelsea
• 🤔 The 'golden generation' of England players struggled to replicate club form, partly due to rivalry between top teams and lack of progressive tactics
• 😕 Lampard feels he didn't enjoy playing for England as much as he could have due to intense rivalry between top clubs seeping into the squad
• 🧐 Chelsea's success was built on a strong core of leaders in the squad, despite frequent manager changes
• 🤨 The new Chelsea owners need time to develop a winning strategy - top 4 this season would show progress
• 😠 Mourinho's style still has a place in modern football, but his results have dipped at Roma
• 😥 Mason Mount has great talent and determination, but has struggled for form and fitness at Man United
• 🤯 Lampard's incredible goal scoring was built on intelligence, timing runs into the box and an obsession with finishing
• 🙂 The best advice Lampard got was from his mum - stay humble and rise above adversity

Q & A

What was the impact of Jose Mourinho's arrival at Chelsea according to the transcript?

Jose Mourinho's arrival at Chelsea brought a significant boost in self-confidence to the team. He had a strong presence that influenced the players positively, emphasized winning, and implemented a simple yet effective 4-3-3 setup that was somewhat forward-thinking for the time.

How did Roman Abramovich's management style influence Chelsea's success?

Roman Abramovich's management style was characterized by high standards and a winning culture. He was known for being direct and occasionally harsh in meetings, demanding success and setting a culture where second place was considered a disaster. This culture, combined with a core group of strong players, contributed significantly to Chelsea's success.

What were the challenges faced by Mason Mount at Manchester United as mentioned in the transcript?

Mason Mount faced challenges due to injuries, a struggling team environment, and finding his best position within the team's structure. There was also a mention of adapting to a team that performs a lot of counterattacking football, which may not align perfectly with Mount's strengths in high pressing and tight area play.

According to the transcript, what is considered a talent in football beyond natural skill?

The transcript suggests that hard work and the determination to improve are considered talents in their own right. The ability to consistently work hard, improve, and adapt to the demands of professional football is highlighted as just as important as natural skill.

How did Frank Lampard view the role of young players in Chelsea's strategy under new ownership?

Frank Lampard recognized that Chelsea's strategy under new ownership, focusing on recruiting young players, would take time to bear fruit. He emphasized the need for patience and possibly a shift in strategy to include experienced players to ensure competitiveness and maintain the club's winning culture.

What was the significance of the win percentages mentioned in relation to the 'golden generation' managers?

The discussion on win percentages aimed to highlight that success as a manager can vary greatly depending on the context, such as the club's situation and the league's competitiveness. It questioned the quick judgment and dismissal of managers from the 'golden generation' based on win percentages without considering the broader context of their careers.

What advice did Frank Lampard's mother give him that he considers the best?

Frank Lampard's mother advised him to 'stay humble and keep your feet on the ground' and to 'rise above' difficulties. This advice has been a guiding principle for Lampard, helping him navigate the challenges and pressures of his football career.

How did the England national team's dynamics affect player relationships according to the transcript?

The transcript suggests that intense club rivalries impacted the dynamics within the England national team, with players finding it challenging to transition from competitors to teammates. This rivalry, particularly during the 'golden generation,' may have affected the team's cohesion and performance.

What was Frank Lampard's approach to improving his goal-scoring ability from midfield?

Frank Lampard's approach to improving his goal-scoring ability involved practical and repetitive training focused on his positioning, timing of runs, and finishing from areas he was most likely to shoot from, demonstrating the importance of hard work and specific skill development.

What challenges did Mason Mount face in adapting to Manchester United's style of play?

Mason Mount faced challenges in adapting to Manchester United's style of play, which involves more counterattacking football. This required an adjustment from his usual style, which is more about high pressing and controlling tight spaces in the attacking third.

Outlines

00:00

😀 Jose Mourinho's arrival and impact at Chelsea

Paragraph 1 describes Jose Mourinho's arrival at Chelsea in 2004 and the immediate impact he had. Mourinho brought huge self-confidence to the team, buying top players like Petr Cech to strengthen the squad. His mentality was that they were going to win, which inspired the young squad. He set them up in a simple 4-3-3 formation but focused more on mentality and telling them they would win games.

05:01

😊 Frank Lampard's personal development under Mourinho

Paragraph 2 discusses Frank Lampard's personal development under Mourinho. Mourinho gave Lampard belief he could win titles and didn't overcoach him tactically. Lampard says Mourinho's simple mental and tactical approaches were great man management for him and helped take his game to the next level.

10:02

😔 Tensions between players from rival clubs in the England squad

Paragraph 3 talks about tensions between players from rival clubs like Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal in the England squad during the golden generation. Lampard admits they were probably too intense and should have had more harmony and left club rivalries behind.

15:02

🤔 Balancing off-field issues with on-field priorities as a manager

Paragraph 4 covers Lampard's experiences balancing off-field issues as a manager with the priority of coaching and focusing on the team. At Everton, he had to deal with tensions between fans, board and owner but tried to prioritize preparing the team tactically game-to-game.

20:03

😕 Owner Roman Abramovich's strong winning mentality and culture at Chelsea

Paragraph 5 discusses owner Roman Abramovich's ruthless winning mentality and culture at Chelsea. If results were poor, he would make harsh changes, which kept players focused on maintaining high standards. Lampard felt this culture was key to their success.

25:03

🤨 Abramovich's desire for Chelsea to play more expansively like Barcelona

Paragraph 6 covers Abramovich's desire for Chelsea to play more expansively like Barcelona. Lampard thinks this never really suited Chelsea's powerful, direct style and the fans didn't demand it either.

30:03

😣 Lampard expects Chelsea's rebuild under new owners to take time

Paragraph 7 states Lampard believes Chelsea's rebuild and new strategy under the new ownership will take time. Young players need to develop quickly to challenge for titles again after recent struggles.

35:05

😠 Resurgence of club rivalries hampered England's golden generation

Paragraph 8 discusses how club rivalries between England's golden generation players from United, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea hampered their international success. Lampard regrets they didn't have more harmony.

40:05

😞 England's rigid tactics inhibited the golden generation

Paragraph 9 suggests England's rigid tactics under Sven-Göran Eriksson inhibited the attacking talents of their golden generation. Lampard thinks they may have done better with a more progressive system.

45:05

😒 Tough transition for golden generation moving from clubs to England team

Paragraph 10 covers the difficult transition for England's golden generation moving from their club styles of play to the national team setup. Lampard says adapting to different systems and marking rivals was challenging.

50:06

😡 Abramovich's harsh criticisms affected Chelsea players

Paragraph 11 recounts some examples of Abramovich directly and harshly criticizing the Chelsea players. Lampard says this showed the ruthless culture but could destabilize them before big games.

55:06

🙂 Chelsea's strong core of players enabled managerial changes

Paragraph 12 explains Chelsea's core of strong leaders and players like Lampard, Terry and Drogba enabled the frequent managerial changes under Abramovich. The players maintained high standards.

00:07

😐 Lampard believes Chelsea overachieved under Tuchel before the new owner takeover

Paragraph 13 argues Chelsea actually overachieved under Tuchel before the new owner took over, consistently finishing top 3 behind City and Liverpool. Expectations are now unrealistic.

05:08

😀 Natural talent versus hard work in Lampard's development

Paragraph 14 has Lampard emphasize hard work and training were just as key as his natural finishing ability in becoming an elite player, aided by his competitive family environment.

10:09

👍 Lampard praises qualities of Mason Mount

Paragraph 15 sees Lampard highly praise Mason Mount's attributes like technical quality, intelligence and determination which will help him succeed despite a tough start at Manchester United.

15:14

😊 Lampard's mother advised him to stay humble and rise above negativity

Paragraph 16 concludes with Lampard saying his mother's advice to stay humble and not get affected by negativity or criticism was the best he received.

Keywords

💡Management

Management refers to being a football manager, responsible for coaching, selecting teams, making tactical decisions, etc. It's a major theme as the video focuses on the experiences of former players Frank Lampard and Roy Keane becoming managers. There are discussions around enjoyment, challenges, working with owners and boards, dealing with losses and pressure, etc.

💡Mentality

Mentality means mindset and approach. It's an important factor in management with talks of instilling winning mentalities in players. Lampard mentions Jose Mourinho bringing confidence and self-belief when he joined Chelsea. There's also discussion of needing strong personalities and leadership within the squad.

💡Environment

Environment refers to atmosphere and interpersonal dynamics. Both Keane and Lampard highlight environment as key, with poor environments and lack of harmony between players cited as impacting England's 'Golden Generation'. There are also comparisons of environment at club level.

💡Owners

Owners play a major role, wielding power over managers and strategy. Lampard details his interactions with Roman Abramovich at Chelsea. There is also discussion around the new Chelsea ownership and uncertainties around Everton owner Farhad Moshiri's approach.

💡Results

Getting results is seen as the bottom line for judging success and failure. Lampard states that losing games ultimately leads to managers losing their jobs. There are mentions of win percentages for some top managers being lower than the 'Golden Generation'.

💡Strategy

There is frequent discussion around football strategy and vision at club level. Lampard questions what Moshiri's strategy is for Everton. He also talks about Chelsea's previous winning approach under Abramovich versus the new ownership's focus on young talent.

💡Transition

Transition refers to shift and change, including former players adjusting to management. Lampard details differences from playing as communication and relationships with the board become vital. There is also discussion around clubs in transition like Chelsea and Manchester United.

💡Standards

Lampard frequently references standards, meaning expectations and acceptable levels of performance. He talks about upholding standards on the training pitch and not accepting drops in standards from players.

💡Adaptability

Adaptability means being able to change approach as needed. Keane highlights adaptability as an important skill for international football when players converge from contrasting styles at their clubs.

💡Improvement

There are regular references to improvement - players getting better, coaches learning. Lampard says despite the pressure, tough spells make managers improve. He enjoys player progression and seeing results from his input and coaching.

Highlights

Jose Mourinho brought huge self-confidence when he joined Chelsea. The players took it in and it helped us believe we would win.

Abramovich would sometimes have harsh meetings with the players, saying we needed to win or many would be gone. It created a winning mentality.

The England 'golden generation' had world class players but lacked togetherness. The club rivalries crept into the national team camp.

At Chelsea the consistent success came from having a core group of top players, despite manager changes.

It will take time for the new Chelsea owners to develop a winning strategy. They can't forget Chelsea has been winning for 20 years.

There is still a place for Mourinho's pragmatic style, but he has to adapt too. His win percentage at Roma was his lowest ever.

At West Ham the nepotism claims were tough but made me tougher. I wanted to prove people wrong, it drove me to work hard.

To be an elite player it's a mix of natural talent and obsessive hard work. I was hungry to improve and focused on the details.

As England players we took responsibility for underperforming. We were too rigid tactically at big tournaments.

Mason Mount has high level attributes but may have suffered from Man United's bad mentality. He needs the right structure.

My best advice is to stay humble and keep your feet on the ground, no matter what.

I can't help the laughing then going serious in press conferences. My daughter sent me a meme about it!

I don't see myself managing into my 60s. I'll give it another 4-5 years then maybe get out.

At Everton there was tension with the board and fans. It was challenging towards the end.

With England's golden generation there were big egos and club rivalries. It didn't feel like we enjoyed tournaments.

Transcripts

Roman came and had a few harsh meetings

with us in those few years when he was

more present and this was translated

which makes it even harsher you know the

Russian

translated like you're waiting for the

translation go on it's not going to be

good you know what I mean I'm literally

sat next to Ash in the dressing room for

England for 6 S8 years Ash comes up to

me screaming in my face after they score

the first goal you were talking about

the timing into the box and I was like

wow this is incredible especially for me

as a midfielder probably should have

followed you more than him I got sent a

lot when I think of management I only

think of myself being successful I don't

even think of myself losing a game and

I'll do some Any Given Sunday speeches

you said that you want to get back into

the game haven't you in terms of the

last 12 months but that listen to

Frankie

yeah absolutely love them toffee uh

popcorn a great love of that toffee

popcorn

honestly they the raspberry ones no who

who got the chocol is there a bit of

raspberry are they the raspberry are

they I'm going to have one now confirmed

raspberry I've been confirmed it's been

confirmed that they are raspberry Min

rolls have you still got the PB prank by

the way yeah I hav yeah it's so

beautiful that Pub got a little Old Pub

you on the building don't you nice one

let me

honestly of

P what's that what's the P go to the pub

it's Pub in London it's down a little

Street like with georgean houses it's

it's a beautiful little Pub on the

corner Shar Sharon is caring chel got

Chelsea Pig the Chelsea Pig you just

bought it's called it's called the pigs

here and I used to go in there a little

bit and it came up my dad to be fair DD

DD

yeah we need more te thank you

yeah

yeah are you sponsored by him Stone

Island no but I just I just something

it's a long I just like it it's just

yeah but it's a nice but why why if pet

wears it he's if pet wears it is's co I

wear at my football Lan Jill you know

what I mean you do look like my 15y old

nephew right now chill been very

aggressive today I take it off and put

my t-shirt on I'm losing my confidence

how often does this

manth want me to change it I change you

can change it that would be amazing that

would be amazing what's that change what

be eternally grateful what

for Oh's po neck it wasn't that great

anyway I was going to message you cuz

you know after you were saying about my

car right you're G wag know so I broke

down on Christmas Day for four hours no

in the car and I was going to actually

text you where were you driving now for

4 hours I was going up to no I was on

the side of the motorway for 4 hours I

was going up to Sunland to a dinner

there must have been a dinner on an

award my family no it was Christmas Day

Christmas day why you just leave your

car and get an Uber or something get

away all the

way on the side of the sit literally on

a half shoulder for 4 hours you can't

just leave your car on a BL mot with are

you allow are you not allowed to leave

your car on the mot on Christmas day no

I don't think so but this Highway M the

been gone when you got back turned up

like to help us and then they were like

H is any of you like ill in the car or

anything I was like no oh the thought

Christmas day they're going to help us

when my daughter plays football would

you mind just signing this thing signed

it and then pissed off never shed those

no just left us right he walks in

doesn't have to show lanyard just walks

in Jamie car Liverpool his anfield right

makes sense right but they know who I am

as well they know I'm not going to turn

up at Liverpool like without a so

literally can we see can we see your

pass please you not ask for his pass

yeah but girl you can't his pass you ask

my pass G you can't give it the big one

I'm not give it the big one you did

because like you didn't show him your

pass he job he have to show his pass but

I do handeld Jamie carer quity yeah but

you're man united they could do that

just to wind you up I thought it worked

as well by LS of things is that your

first one is that your second second one

I've gone now I mean I can feel I'm in

yeah so nice you feel bad this time for

the

day not should we get in I like the tank

top thanks girl you still got neck on no

this is the roll but I don't need the M

could fit on that M the mic couldn't fit

on it so I wor something that can you

know can accommodate the microphone

which is still amazing it just

happens looks good thank you must be

midnight now is it

right right right right right

welcome to stick to football brought to

you by Sky Bet and joining us this week

is the Chelsea and England Legend Frank

Lampard what have you been doing for the

last few months obviously you were at

Chelsea at the end of last season but

what have you been doing since then uh

enjoying a bit of time out actually uh

trying to be a good dad uh good how's

that working out for yeah yeah I think

it's kind of right it's kind of right I

suppose it's one of the it's one of the

the pitfalls of management obviously is

when you're out the game because you

want to work but you got to appreciate I

certainly learn appreciation over the

last few years been managing for what

four or five years now um the year at

Everton I was up close to here actually

away from the family a lot probably

didn't realize until I came home what i'

missed cuz my boy was like a year of age

at that point my daughters was three or

four now they're five and two and um

spending time with him has been a been a

great thing for me because even when

you're managing you're present but

you're not so many times do you know

what I mean so I've really appreciated

that few other bits outside that I've

always done so of when you're unemployed

as such like fulltime employment

everyone thinks you're available every

day so like do you want to go for lunch

do you want to do this and I just like

being at home a lot if I'm honest so um

yeah just being happy out the game and

uh watching a lot of football doing all

those things has it changed your

perspective on anything in terms of

whether you want to go back into

management or whether you think no

actually now I'd like to do something

different no it hasn't I enjoy it unless

you know if you ask me in the heat of a

moment in management I think he probably

the biggest highs and lows you can have

in the game especially from comparing it

to a player because I think you take so

much more responsibility so when you're

working sometimes you have moments where

you're so high back in good result or

you're low because you you got problems

you got issues you're trying to get

results whatever it is but I think when

you come out of it I think um probably

the best thing I think about experience

for me as a manager is not you know you

get better tactically you might find

different ways you want to play but I

think it's learning as a manager to deal

with those parts of the game learning to

not be I think Young managers can be

really intense on yourself every result

that goes the wrong way you're searching

yourself you can end up putting a lot

more pressure on yourself so I think

there's any balance I found it's like I

want to work again and what what little

bits can I do better maybe for myself to

to handle the the obvious roller coaster

that it can sometimes be I I mean I had

that to be fair for a brief time and I

was well out of my depth and didn't

particularly want to do the job I was

struggling towards the end have you had

moments like that in the last sort of 12

months where you've sort of had them

difficult challenges obviously Chelsea

at end of the season and EV where you've

looked in the mirror in the morning you

thought you're com on top a little bit I

think Evan was it felt a bit like that

in the end and it was probably searching

for results it's always your job

coaching trying to pick the right team

whatever keep the squad happy but

Everton in the end there were a lot of

issues in and around it you try not to

get to way laid by them because you

can't affect it too much really but we

all know that there was an issue with

the fans and the board at the time and

all those I was on the phone a lot in

the evening trying to connect with owner

chairman everyone El CEO you know and

then go in and do the day job the next

day so I think at that time I definitely

found an intense end period I didn't

find Chelsea as difficult personally

because I knew it was finite it was

going to be six seven weeks um I learned

very quickly in my head what the issues

were there um and they were not my

issues to solve long term I don't want

to sound like I palmed them off it's

just you want results but at the same

time if you go into a place where you go

there's a lot of problems here can I

turn it around in nine games when

motivation has just gone down uh and I

actually came to peace with that a

little bit I wanted to win games cuz

it's my own reputation at the same time

but at the same time I wasn't so bad

there probably at the end of Everton

would be the biggest spell where and you

know what it's it's a challenge sounds a

bit corny makes you a better person

better Coach probably after because you

maybe learn next time you know what all

those phone calls I had maybe I didn't

need to get so involved in them you have

to be respectful to speak to your owner

and stuff those phone calls were they

with the ownership and the problems that

they're having related to what's

happening now or were they related to

the sort of if you like the fact that

they couldn't come to the games and the

sort of disagreement with the fans what

you know with the ffp things that are

going on that that was all L happening

when you were there what what what were

those phone calls I think some of a bit

of everything some of it definitely was

about the uh the fans and and and the

board and I and I felt for the board

it's not easy to speak about when you're

in it you have to put on a a media face

as a coach and sometimes you don't want

to go against the fans you don't against

sh I'm bold go against your own bold

that can be fatal for your job but at

the same time I had I had a lot of

feeling for people like the chairman has

obviously passed away Bill Kite was a

great support to me through the time

really opinionated Lov the club was Mr

everon and had a lot of um you end up

very sensitive to the fact that this man

can't come to games you know you can

have opinion on all the details but this

man's given his life to this club um

Denise my CEO was incredible was trying

to really put in a football plan but at

the same time we got to the point

probably we're struggling for results of

it comeing January after the World Cup

and the break in the season um and one

of the problems I found at Everton was

that uh we were trying to work a

football plan Kevin fwell came in

sportting director Denise who was like

football plan recruitment what we

working towards

um so we're working towards it the

minute January came in it was like it

was like the wild west and agents and

what everyone and what's the what's the

you know what's it going to be who can

we bring in we were struggling to be

able to to spend money anyway because of

the ffp situation I desperately wanted

to bring in some players and in end even

after I left think it was another week

Shan came in at the back end couldn't

really make any moves anyway Anthony

Gordon left the club but there so there

was a lot of tension at the club through

that and I think it' been a buildup you

night worldcare as well but it would

have been a buildup over a few years I

felt it from the minute I came in until

the minute I left it was almost like

we're in a bit of a crisis but there's

going to be another crisis uh that was

quite difficult I think we managed it

when we stayed up that year quite a lot

of the thing which let build confidence

and feeling and we managed to get over

the line with that um but in the second

season towards the end it was

challenging where was micher in all this

Frank so you mentioned obviously Denise

and you mentioned Bill C but misher is

the ultimate owner where was he in all

that more remote in terms of not being

present which which is fine I worked

with r Abramovic for years he wasn't

present we won a lot of things he

doesn't have to be present so it be more

on the phone having conversations but I

think the joined up nature of the club

which would should have been I think a

reason for was it joined up though no

yeah it what it wasn't and you could

then see why in The Last 5 Years they

spent a lot of money in Recruitment and

it hadn't been joined up and that came

to roost a bit now and we're seeing

obviously the aftermath of that now I

think being in the city and and sort of

having you know a few little links to to

Everton there was there was definitely

that divide on the board and it's

probably almost why the board sort of

finish it was Mair was on one side and

Bill kenri Denise B backs Andale sort of

on the other and I always had the

feeling I don't know if if you felt the

same when um Denise and and Bill kenr

and other people couldn't go the game

and people were asking them to resign

why you still at the club why have you

not resigned was the feeling

that almost they needed to be there to

almost somehow try and keep in check

maid because he could when you're

talking about the wild west and agents

coming around they was that that feeling

of yours that they would almost almost

stay in to actually if we leave into his

own devices things could actually get

worse I think there would have been a

bit of that in terms of there was

definitely a different strategy from the

owner to what the Chairman's idea was

about it and to what Denise's was and I

think some of it would have been their

own

um I don't know determination to see it

through I think the chairman was a tough

man was a strong man do you know what I

mean as I said he was very caring with

me and I went to his memorial recently

and the amount of people that spoke for

him spoke and I liked it in terms of how

they was speaking because what I have

sense from him you know it can challenge

you a lot Denise was working everything

to get this Stadium over the line which

I think is going to change the club

going forward hopefully and working with

us to try and get so I think they they

were working their own way as you say in

in a direction on the ground much more

Denise particularly for me at the

training ground always trying to work

forward always trying to problems and

we've got a few players over the line um

in the previous window which absolutely

Denise scraping and trying to do

everything communicating with the

Premier League because we were in you

know on a tight line so I think they

were just probably doing their job and

and I understand why it would have hurt

them deep down being evertonians that

they couldn't go to games had mistakes

been made from different people of

course they had been made but I think

there was a gen genuine good nature to

them in wanting to try and keep the club

in the league try and keep moving

forward how was it for you then because

you know the ffp thing has just sort of

dropped EV of being docked 10 points

they've been or you know know charged

again I mean what was it like for you in

terms of okay you're looking for players

and when you talk about Denise was

talking to the Premier League I mean had

any stated did the Premier League say

you can't buy this player or you've only

got so much to spend I mean how how how

did it work yeah there were a lot of

details to that and obviously when

Richardson left the club we all knew it

was coming um because it had because it

had to happen so he left the club it

gave us a little bit of rle room to try

and bring in some players there because

my view on it at the back end of the

season was that we'd stayed up but the

squad needed a lot of work and it wasn't

just the idea of bringing players in it

was the idea of getting players to move

on now some of those players were

probably you know an age in their career

would signed long contracts we're not

going to go anywhere practical nature of

any football club is sometimes you're

then a little bit hamstrung by that as I

say at that point intentions were great

of trying to bring players in but the

reality was I think we were never really

going to do it the evid supporters are

obviously uh you know fighting for the

club in terms of the 10-point deduction

and sort of attack in the Premier League

if you like but you know those

discussions where with the am couble

with the Premier League was it almost a

feeling that you were working together

or they were sort of stopping you doing

things going forward I I was never

really privy to them so I would only get

you know feedback off the back of it so

I think there was a I think they were

amical to a point but they were they

were clear lines of what you could do at

that stage is it like frustrating as a

manager because you've got all this

stuff going on and really you just want

to manage and coach your team don't you

like did you do a lot of on thefield

coaching or did you feel like that's

what you wanted to do but it seems so

much going on for managers that they

don't get to just focus on the team

sometimes yeah well you got to be wary

of that because there's not much you

can't do and in terms of recruitment now

the modern manager is not the old school

manager who's traveling up and down the

country watching players to bring in you

have to leave that pass that over to

Recruitment and the idea what the club

you have those conversations and you go

right what is my job so what I don't

want to sound here now like I'm making a

big smoke screen of what that back per

back end period was like it was like

that my main job was always to coach the

team and and I am coach when I work I

want to be on the team with them setting

up game plan who we got next week what's

that going to look like and when you're

go for a tough time you know sometimes

you go next game's Brighton then it's

Man City then it's Sansa and you how are

we going to work around that so

absolutely all my you know the big part

of my priority and focus at that point

was coaching the team as it always is

and then you know dealing with all those

other bits something you've got to try

and be able to handle I mean I I can

hand it I don't I definitely don't want

to sound like a baby or making excuses

here because the real reason you leave

the job is because you don't get results

in that period do you know what I mean

regardless of the two or three hours you

might have on the phone at night you've

got to find a way to prioritize coaching

if that's what you want to do no with um

the fact that you're born into the game

you know it's all you've known since you

growing up where where's the enjoyment

in in the management for you where what

where did you get that something Frank

cuz like listening to this now it sounds

it sounds like everything apart from

actually getting enjoyment and doing

something that you you love which I know

you do love but where's the enjoyment

well did you get any even with the wins

could you could you even reflect and be

happy for any time yeah yeah I could be

definitely and if I look back through my

career um I've had in managing managing

career I've had big wins that have

probably given me more fulfillment than

any of my planing days unfortunately

enough you know I won stuff with my plan

days whether it was because of drugar or

me or John Terry I was in a great Squad

you know great setup so but when you are

the manager the feel of responsibility

of I know getting Derby to the playoff

final you beat Lees who are probably a

better team that you feel a big sense of

and and keeping everan up in in in the

league I mean that's an enjoyment like

that night because of living in the city

and starting to buy into it and the

everon were so desperate to stay up

being a bit of a head figure as such in

that moment is massive enjoyment and

then you do get the day-to-day working

with young players and you go to Chelsea

you feel linked and proud of arice James

Mason M or Tammy Abraham players that go

on to do good things you don't take the

credit for it but you enjoy the dayto

day did I give some information did I

give them an opportunity so there were

loads of things I definitely don't want

to sound like we just asked me about

that end period at Everton focus on that

and the other parts loads of other parts

of my management people will always want

to can always make a big de you left

that club that was a bad ending but at

the same time I can look at the jobs

I've had and G at Derby yeah we we had a

good run we actually got the club

together we got to a playoff on okay we

didn't make it for that Chelsea you and

we got to the champions league and we

and we brought in some players saying we

because of the staff and everyone that

works together so there are there are

loads of good moments and you you do

have to get a balance to it you can't

think I'm going to go and win everything

yeah every manager got relative success

success you know pep wins most years

brilliant manager he's got fantastic

players the rest of us are looking for

relative success whatever that is Roy

where are you on that I mean you

obviously have said obviously Frank just

said he wants to get back into the game

and you said that you want to get back

into the game haven't you in terms of

the last 12 months but that listen to

Franklin I'm sorry about this I'm sorry

about this I'm going to bring it you

just ended managerial

career it no do you want to get back in

are you serious get back it's got to be

again I go back to it not not that

you're going to get the Real Madrid job

but it's got to be the right challenge

it's got to be the right Club it's got

to be the right contract so can you

bring your staff and I I disc discuss

this all the time I have had

opportunities but sometimes you get

offered a contract I go back to do I

look at it if I do get offered stuff a

bit of selfworth you know is the deal

right for you whatever I'd like to go

back in but I'm not desperate when I

sign any contract for anybody but but

even your experience different all that

our experiences that will definitely

will make you a better manager yeah as

you said the off the field stuff dealing

with board members that is that is tough

that is that can sap your energy when

you and maybe some clubs there's a

crisis there's always a crisis in there

and maybe ever will be one of them for

the next few years you know fighting

relegation dealing with boards and at a

club unless you had a really well-run

Club they are those challenges off the

pit if it was just about going in

working with a team it'd be great is one

of the things why you want to go back

into management is that people talk

about the day to day and you know gives

you something to do I mean for me I

always think about you with the island

job you know whether that would work for

you obviously that wouldn't be dayto day

but would that be something something

International Football I enjoyed it when

I was a coach je for what I like the

Dynamics of it again where you're not in

every day and it's not about bringing

players in and I suppose dealing with

the board every week or whatever it

might be and the academy yeah that does

appeal I did enjoy the Dynamics when I

was coaching with Martin with the Irish

team yeah but then we had a little bit

of success and you look back when you've

had a little bit of success then it's

brilliant but obviously there's

disappointment so yeah that would be

that could be an option j o

nice one Jame we got out of him we got

there in the end see the headline he's

Keen he's ke nice one Jill love Jill

Scott man go on g what you the last

question on Everton you mentioned I

think earlier on about masiri strategy

and he said that obviously the what

Denise and Bill Kem with him was trying

to defend what was going on but what is

what is the strategy of misseri at the

club because a lot of Everton fans

probably wouldn't know yeah I'm not

exactly sure about that um I'm not

saying that too Loosely um because I

came into it probably I don't know four

or five years it' been there before I

got in there but you know you could see

that it had been uh four managers U

Marco Silva Roberto Martinez Carlo

angelotti ANZ big Sam sorry so really

you know higher level managers when you

go through that Champions League winners

Etc and I came in and you could see with

the squad in terms of the squad there

wasn't a and this happened at football

clubs you new managers come in and want

to go a different way so but if you can

have a bit of a strategy of what you

want to be I wasn't sure what it was cuz

we were having conversations about Frank

what do you want how do you want to

coach the team now I've got an idea you

go okay I want to do that I go but we're

going to have to recruit a bit for that

because I can't make you know this team

exactly what I want it to be now which

is probably what at the end of my time

and when we stayed up we went to a back

five and we were really compact we

engaged the fans we got up the pitch

Anthony Gordon was flying at that time

and we got some Pace in the team um and

we fought our way out of trouble to it

and it was great for me like the idea of

evid an experience when you're in a

tough moment you get you become a better

Coach but in terms of what the club idea

was at that point no and and again I

don't want to sound like this is making

a real negative on merer or the big

decision makers over those years because

I'm sure they did it because they all

Everton to make it into a fantastic club

that was success who who wouldn't do

that it'd be crazy not to it's just

maybe when you were I I worked at Man

City for a year at the back end of my

career and I went into a a structure I

was a players you don't know everything

but you look at and go places going to

go places a vision and they're going to

go away and then Pep Guardiola Comes A

year later or whatever but when you lose

a couple of games it's not like oh what

we going to do now sack that change that

it was almost like it's going to go and

it's going to go and obviously at

Everton it hadn't it hadn't had that for

whatever reason but you were smart sorry

you were smart when you went in first

Frank obviously hadd Listen to I watch

some of the first few games and you no

doubt you were trying to play a kind of

an open game and that's what you used to

in your career but depending at least

dep pending draft for you when you first

wi in going listen Lads we need to we

need to shut up shop here we need to

play a certain way and that's management

isn't it cuz people talk about what's

your philosophy what's your plan we all

have great plans until you walk in the

door and then you see a SE group of

players you go listen we're short here

there's lack of confidence everything

have to stay up that is the priority so

it's about results so that's to me

that's what management is about so yeah

I I found as well the easier part of

that is for me was that when I went in

it was written all over the faces of the

players so I tried to to go in and go

right we're going to be a bit not

expansive is the wrong word but you know

we're going to play a bit the idea we be

for in the cup in the first game then we

lost a couple of games on the road then

we beat Le well at home and we were

pressing and it was like 433 should 442

but we were doing everything we wanted

to do and then we went and got spanked

in a few games away from home and I

could see that the players it wasn't a

big ass to say you know what Lads we're

going to protect here now and we're

going to have five at the back and then

we did get some results with it and we

had the goodison thing because in that

time for me we we were beating Man

United at goodon we beat Chelsea at

goodison and and the crowd were rallying

behind us and it was giving the players

you know a massive lease of life so it

was uh we we got over the line it was a

really interesting coaching situation

for me learn learned a lot on that front

and and I've got to say the Elation of

St up was definitely one of the was

coaching about just talking Lads talk

let's sit go along but you know but and

ever it worked at the time and it kind

of sometimes that type of play does suit

everon doesn't I think it does Sheamus

colan a good character for Sheamus

Sheamus is amazing good guy and the

first I sat with him so now messaged him

the other day CU he made his was it 15

years ago that was incredible that and

what a player as well by the way I

remember him playing against him and I

didn't really appreciate I want to work

with him because at that point he's 33

but it wasn't just what he did on the

pitch what he did off his pitch his

standards his his

humility um everything about team

player you know family man but there's

no there's not a bit of him that's not

genuine and he and he wore it on his

face when we were struggling it was like

I really care about this you want to say

to the other players but it'd speak in

front of the players on his own maybe we

spoke about you once I think my Monday

Night Football and You' had a dig you'd

had a dig at the Players so they're not

good enough enough or whatever and he

used you as a reference point and he

went I was watching Monday Night

Football last night and did you watch it

to all the players all the probably 90%

put it went Jamie carer said this it

wasn't that necess a dig at you he

probably use it in a smart way it was

basically don't accept that you know

what I mean as players and as managers

we we have to take some stick you know

what I mean but the only way to do it is

to react to it and it was it was a bit

of a turning point for us can't remember

the exact moment of it but but he was

always the man to do

thats last game of the season I never

thought you'd be more of it than ever

did that's most premier league dressing

rooms on a Tuesday morning that to be

honest with you see what he said I'm

just listening I'm think to myself I

can't I'm still trying to find a joy I

don't know if yeah because when I when I

think of management I only think of

myself being successful I don't even

think of myself losing a game honestly I

don't think someone thinking I watch

people I watch some things and I think

wow I wish yeah if I went in there and

I'll do some Any Given Sunday speeches

and I'll get the lads going and we'll

play great stuff but then I've not heard

anybody tell me about the joy I I I had

this conversation you might remember

this about 10 years ago the first time I

ever did pundy we worked together on ITV

I think in the Euros 2012 and gett

Southgate was on the panel and Roberto

Martinez and uh so three managers or had

a go management I

was two really good managers yeah sure

and when we were going to the bar after

the show I think Gordon Sten was there

as well yes and everyone was talking

about sort of the problems and this and

I and I said to I said to you why' you

do it and you said I remember you saying

to me he said being a man is like a

night out you know you have a night out

sat you get up Sunday morning you go

never again and then you get to Friday

you put your gear on I mean and that's

the type of thing just like I I don't

see that much yeah do you not miss being

on the grass though like no you know

what I hate that

say it doesn't it doesn't mean what you

think

just back from

Thailand no but I do it I don't know

just I want to go into cult understand

it I don't miss I don't people always

say oh miss the dress room I don't but

not even just kicking a ball

about no I loved it but it was just like

that oh no was pund not enough for you

Frank um I would say it's not enough I

think that's disrespectful to it cuz I

enjoyed it and um allowed you to have a

a nicer lifestyle you know it's like

know you will work hard on the table in

a different ways but like it it's from

being a player obviously um so no I

enjoyed I enjoyed the the preparation I

wanted to be as well prepped as I could

I wanted to do as good job as I could do

but you were good at it as well I

thought you know I thought I was okay

but you always want to be better at it

and what you do and look around and see

other people doing it really well and

you kind of want to be as good as you

can but so what no I wouldn't say it

wasn't no I just enjoyed the period of

doing it and you know it actually gave

me an eye towards the analysis thing

which you going have to do when you're a

manager and it's done so well now it's

why I appreciate good analysis and I

appreciate where I can see prep's been

done and someone's watched the game

rather than just go no they pressed

higher they didn't you know like the

generic stuff I I saw you the other day

the Manu game you talked about the

Midfield boy and you were talking about

two10 I have a side of You cover the

space weight and then you know where to

go and for me if I'm sitting that's what

I want to hear I want to hear Roy can

show me and tell me exactly why cuz he

did it for 20 years

it was but I appreciate but you you guys

you've done it on Monday Night Football

and made it an amazing show right when

he talks about movement you know

whatever it might be like those things I

think are good to this is what I would

want to be that version of that but then

when I got into management the sort of

drug to be the flip of the negative side

of it is can you get Improvement and and

the more you go into the whole that

because I want to be a coach and I want

to coach the players I want to give them

ideas I want to show them what they

could do to be better you do buy inct

yourself I watch games with a completely

different eye than what I did five years

ago or thought was a player so you

actually want to get Improvement you

want to improve players and then you you

know like I said about the younger

players I have been able to be part of

the the journey or the project project

but you know what I mean you you do take

a sense of pride in that and enjoy that

so there there are lots of things to say

you're R about changes s with staff do

you constantly not that you blame the

staff for you know when you've had a bad

result but you look back in think maybe

I'll tweak that with more experience or

whatever it might be know or were you

really comfortable with all everyone

around you yeah yeah I was I was i i a

really good group and we we we got on

very well I know it's not about that

it's not about a ladge trip but we were

up help it does help if you get on so

the staff office like as much as

sometimes EV again could have been

challenging towards the end we had we

had a real laugh in the office about a

lot of things I won't repeat the

stuff work again but you would we had we

had a good laugh and people you know um

Joe was now managing at milw uh Chris

Jones I worked with since I've started

managing Paul Clement as well who's

obviously worked with Carlo and all his

clubs and managed himself we had we had

Ashley car so we had a lot of experience

in the room I certainly wouldn't put it

down to any of my staff or you no I

wouldn't say you're putting it down to

them but if you were back another job

would you say listen if one of them is

tied up I lead him to it and I'll just

well one has since gone on to be

managing M so yeah I think you you do

have to think like that and sometimes

those challenges are good for you as

well you always making you think what

you're good at and what maybe you need

someone else that's better than you

analis whatever it might be set pieces I

look at you and sort of Stevie I'm

probably way at the minute you sort of

you're looking at Wayne Rooney at

Bingham and getting sck off the fans uh

you're talking about sort of ups and

downs of the ob stevies in in in Saudi

now and it do you think you you you

almost want to be a coach you're a coach

and you're a manager now that that's you

because when when I worked with say

Brendon Rogers or Rafa

Benitez they're going to be a coach or a

manager till the 60 OD it's just that's

that's their thing do you not sort of

Envision in the future you being maybe

an ambassador somewhere or maybe working

for you aan and doing a TV gig are you

in the the management stuff or sort of

think I'm going to to give this another

sort of four to five years and then try

and get out or do you see this as going

into your sort of 60s I don't go be I

don't go beyond the four or five years I

think you probably have to have that

because I think if you don't you could

probably easy get way laid off of it

because there's a lot of challenges now

I'm sitting waiting for an opportunity

you might get you might go for a job and

you don't get it or you might just be

waiting around and so I think then you

could go down different routes I think

I'm well I know exactly where I'm at

that I want to do it because I do enjoy

doing and I actually it's probably a

deep down desire to get better at it and

do the best I can at it because I've

I've always been like that a bit as a

player I haven't lost that and as much

as you try not to listen to outside

noise there will always be outside noise

Me Stevie why particularly because of

probably our playing careers I think he

of good interest of people have probably

watched you have a pretty good playing

career for 20 years and then go I'm not

going to just give you an easy ride into

management though and they kind of

presume that you just went I'm going to

finish now I'm going to be a manager and

here you work by hard I think there is a

level of dist I want to talk about that

do you think there is a level of

disrespect to this sort of golden

generation of managers and it's almost

been the last few weeks because of

what's happened with way in particular

there's an element of ridicule which is

unfair yeah I I think there's definitely

that's definitely a point because the

golden Generations thing was a nonsense

anyway because no one proclaimed us a

golden generation there's some good

players in that Squad besided Italy and

France and zidan and they had p and that

you know like International football is

always a challenge to win and that's an

old story now but of course it's nice to

rehash the story and go on result but

every manager like it doesn't matter

whether you're I don't I don't want to

cry too much here because every manager

gets a tough run every manager will be

top of the tree after a few wins and in

threat of getting a sack within a few

whether you're part of the golden

generation just an English manager or a

foreign manager but I would say probably

in the last recent period has not really

been a a young British manager that's

come and been a bit of a standard Bearer

for it so there's always this kind of

he's another one that's not really as

talented as because to be fair to

foreign managers starting with probably

arson Vena Jose Mourinho PEP guarda

joggen Club they have made a massive

difference to the Tactical nature of the

game in 20 years not not an English

manager in that list but at the same

time now there are a lot of English

coaches and I think it is a stick to

beat you with sometimes the golden

generation thing it's hard that's that's

another headline for them out poor old

us do you know what I mean the golden

generation we're still good that's what

you want on this

podcast fair I I want to because to be

fair I looked at this quite a bit in the

last few days and it's this thing about

who's a successful manager and who's

deemed not a successful manager and you

know I was looking at the win

percentages of say the golden generation

Steve is WI percentage overall is

57.1% yours is

41.3 um you know W's is down at 25 mine

was 35 in Valencia skulls is was 30.8

I'm just nameing five

there 35 are you serious I'm

35% what's no but what's staggering and

look charity the equivalent Char Shield

friendly is that but then you think

about these managers have unbelievable

careers Shawn D gr Potter Roy Hudson Sam

allise Eddie how and you know Roy your

win percentage overall is

38.7% Eddie how is

35% Sam Ali's overall win percentage in

the Premier League is 32% Roy Hudson's

overall win percentage in the Premier

League is 32% gr Potters who's deemed an

unbelievable manager and I think he's a

great coach 28% Shawn D is 28% now

that's what I'm talking about in terms

of they deemed to be very successful

think you mentioned this quite a few

times Ro over the last few years and we

would say they are successful managers

but they've got probably three 400 games

under the belt how do you two who have

maybe only had one difficult job between

you know you've had one difficult job at

ipswitch you had a difficult job at at

maybe um Everton in the last few months

how do you get to 10 jobs 12 jobs like

they have when your win potenti is are

higher than those but you're deemed

already to potentially be oh where's

your next job going to be that's over

that's over a longer period and I'm not

I'm not I'm not disrespecting them at

all I'm just saying the clubs and the

situations yeah so how do how do young

managers when they're being written off

with percentages of 40% 38% as an

example why would you give him a job's

when actually got higher win percentages

than some of the ones that are deemed

have got incredible careers well

unfortunately you sort of have to ignore

it because um I know perception is a big

thing you just talked about it there and

I think again I think our careers maybe

then get held on us a bit you know I

think yourself even going to Valencia

you decided then you're going to go down

your own route but there'll be there'll

be an element of people that would

probably sitting back in England go it

didn't work for him out there you know I

mean that's a reality that's the the

real world that we live in so you got to

try and ignore it or you get drawn on a

silly article that just throws that up

without any context of where you worked

at you know Sam allad will be low

because he kept keeping clubs in the

league that maybe didn't deserve to stay

in the league or whatever it is so I

think that's a per you just got TOA and

put it to the side and work forward but

I know I know what you mean it can have

an effect it's the world you think it's

because those managers maybe took jobs

lower down to start with and then went

like that and maybe the jobs that say

the golden generation have got have gone

in a lot higher and maybe the there's

that perception that I think that's

where people there's an element of where

if you you finished and you've had a

decent career and you get a decent job

quickly I think there is that resentment

towards managers who've had a good

career and just say you might mention a

few managers there who were down the

lower leagues and they learned their

trade at League one or League two and

two 300 games and they sometimes get

away with I think when they get better

jobs but I think people are waiting for

certain players who've had certain if

they've seen they've got an easy job

quickly or a big job quickly I think

there is that idea of like oh well some

you don't get the benefit of doubt as

much as other managers when you've had a

difficult spell because every manager

even the great managers go through

difficult spells they

can't players with a big name a great

play you can't make your mistakes if you

know what I mean so the manager your T

well there Roy hodin I think started in

Sweden we don't really know how it went

or obvious he did really well at the

time but I think Shawn dice was at

Watford initially Grand Potter what I'm

saying is even when they're having a

good time or a bad time they're going a

little bit under the radar in terms of

them whereas you everything's right in

the spot

like and it feels like everyone in this

country desperate for our Pep Guardiola

because everyone says well pep do went

straight in Barcelona pep guarda is a

genius he's probably going to be the

greatest manager of all pluses and

minuses you have to hold your hand up

you go listen because your career that

has given you an opportunity but then

you're not giv that bit of that bit of

brain space when you have a difficult

spell because again the first thing they

TR you is oh you're never going to be as

good as what you are as a player and

that's yeah that there's there's some of

the Hang-Ups you have to face Eddie H's

had it I suppose a little bit Eddie H

was going to be this and that then

Newcastle to a difficult spell but he

started off really well obviously I know

obviously done really Bourn went to

Burnley for a while he came back to

Bourn then and

that's there there challenges for every

manager yeah it's not just don't get

enough time though like Rooney how long

was he in that job it's crazy like I

think we spoke about before but you're

going into a club you've got to change

everything you get a bad run of results

I feel like back in the day they didn't

just get rid of you after 12 13 weeks

and I think it it takes time so but

that's your decision making the club

you're picking

Birmingham I know they were doing okay

at the time even weigh stuff at Derby

I'm sure that was difficult off the

field stuff go to the stat so everyone's

got a different Journey but yeah but

when a lot of managers you you don't get

enough time of course not obviously not

it ramps up as well when you get a

manager that's weren't doing badly you

know and then it feels like oh they've

bought oh like okay St out instantly

instantly Under Pressure it's a horrible

situation we' mentioned golden

generation and send our best wishes to

Sven gor and Erikson um

and I know you like talking about the Jo

gold generation but there's this feeling

Frank and I don't think I've ever spoken

to you about this that we were sort of

we could have been set up better we

could have potentially been more sort of

progressive we should have achieved more

and I I just wrote a team down um this

week in a system of play that had David

James in goal we got three center backs

of Saul Campbell on the right Rio fer in

the middle and John Terry on the left

got David Beckham right wing back who

played there under Glenn huddle Ashley

Cole left wing back he's dropped

himself he wants a win

up Paul skulls in Midfield dictating the

Play Holding like poo did you and Stevie

obviously moving forward in those number

eights and then Wayne Rooney and mich

Owen up front I picked that team and I

thought if we were set up in that way

would we have could we have won

something do you think the golden

generation should have won something now

you said that France before better

players I sometimes go along with that

theory as well but do you think there is

an element of us potentially being set

up in a more Progressive Way that could

mean that we would have been able to

keep possession more and do more in

tournament because you were part

obviously of the 2004 and six and I

think it's it's such a long conversation

this one because and I float a bit with

it like you said there yourself because

I do think at times we were probably too

rigid and when I say that I talk from my

own personal experience of playing in

well cups against teams that were not at

our level so I'm not talking about

France and Italy now that's playing

against Ecuador so that were keeping the

ball off us keeping the ball field cuz

they're outnumbering Us in the center of

the park so the things that maybe me and

Stevie get used to doing where we we had

numbers or we were used to now you're

just trying to cover space and and you

actually get a bit mentally done with it

in the game going why is this why is

this happening and I think we were

probably Str that would be you know

Fabio capella one of the greatest

managers in terms of his record in Italy

coming in went with that very rigid

structure as well because that was his

way and he' had great success with it

but for us yeah I do think but there

were a lot of factors to it like the SK

Paul skulls Factor skulls is an

incredible player I remember when I saw

first got into the squad I probably

upset the apple cart a little bit

because I was another one that was sort

of attacking me field now you got three

of them and I know scolan went on the

left of a diamond and we had decent

Euros that year but we got knocked out

um so then skoy kind of went retired

from International Football I think for

his own reasons whatever they were then

went into that kind of deeper role at

Man United and became a quarterback and

was Unreal now you can casually look

back and go I didn't just put scy there

he wasn't playing at that point he

wasn't playing there he was arriving

into the box I remember scoring those

two goals against Scotland B over the

top at that time you know he was an

incredible player throughout his whole

career but the circumstances had changed

you know so there were Wayne and and

Michael didn't quite play together in

that two that much like Wayne and then

Michael started to get his injuries and

then Wayne came into the team so it was

never as clearcut it was a good squad

and maybe with some different you know L

getting another body in Midfield for

sure I think would have helped it

certainly would help for the Dynamics of

people together was a lot of egos was a

years you hear stories about Liverpool

against United was that

so if you're looking at good players on

paper it doesn't mean the Dynamics in

the group is going to come together

that's in England do have that now don't

they they have that togetherness I think

G southgate's really focused on that

which massive credit for that but for

all the experienced players could they

not the group deal with all that stuff

because they had expectations week and

we go to we got to take that on the chin

I think as as the players for that one I

think it was a bit of naivity mid 20s or

whatever I was when I got into the team

fulltime and I look back now and I would

go yeah I probably did see with the

Chelsea boys on the table too didn't

link with a you know I think you just

take that one on the doesn't mean we

would have won or lost that game

necessarily but over a period of time

even the expectation I mean frankf the

group of players should be going there's

yeah there is expectation yeah okay not

everyone's going to be best Pals

together but talking about pressure

playing for England but you were getting

pressure week in we go to your Club

sorry that I'm surprised that was such a

that would kind of really creep into the

camp and affect players when a lot of

these players were winning big trophies

at their clubs every season but it's

hard in football when you've had that

massive game having you like Arsenal

Chelsea Liverpool and then you meet up

with England and it's like you've had to

be the biggest Rivals and then suddenly

the next day you're like come on then

let's get on with it I used to sometimes

find that a little bit difficult um it

was kind of like leave your Club hat at

home and then now run International and

same with style of play as well you go

from playing a club football in a

certain way and believing in it and then

you have to go away with Phil Neville at

England and believe in his style of play

and have like an open mindset and stuff

like that and sometimes you're so

drilled in by your Club aren't you cuz

that's your philosophy D in D out so was

it a case of sometimes when that golden

generation came together you had the

Liverpool Lads that believed in a

certain way playing the Chelsea boys or

yeah maybe and again I think we have to

take responsibility because that that is

the the test and the you know of

International Football you have to be a

to go and be adaptable and understand

what the basically the Chelsea LS wasn't

it it was the Chelsea

Lads we we got we got told for about 6

months after Knocked Out World Cup every

when me John and Ashley were getting PS

everyone let us know it was our fault

that's what n kept telling us when you

would believe them chel youand but Sven

was link with United y he was supposed

to be coming in but you all like Sven

didn't you he used to come back yeah

absolutely yeah we really liked but and

to be fair I always I've always taken

the sort of same opinion as Frank that I

look back and think of as players we

disappointed him we'd fell below our

standards and other countries had great

players but then I just think when I

look at sort of how we played under

Terry in your night six or maybe Glenn

and I think of how we were rigid for

about eight years as you were at

Liverpool quite rigid weren't you in

sort of compact in defense and then it's

very difficult to get out from that and

we were kept the ball were being kept

off Us by teams that were inferior to us

um and you wonder whether it would have

been different if we'd have gone for a

more sort of progressive system or

something you just you know it's a

question when you changed it with Glenn

no Glenn was before yeah but when you

changed it with um Terry vbl Terry ven

was was he not playing ter vbl it was

Terry vbl and then it was U but was not

Terry in making like inv you to play a

nice style of football yeah yeah no

absolutely that's what I'm saying to we

we play different

win what you no that that is a good part

you have this in your head if we played

a certain way we could have won no you

still listen as you know still find

margins yeah you still have to get over

the line in certain games and so even

when you did start playing and you were

having more possession and get more

balls in the box and Brilliant Strikers

like Shear just Nick still came up short

I think you're right but what I would I

would say about that is I think when I

he players talk about Euro 96 and maybe

the World Cup 98 it feels like there was

an enjoyment I mean I was in the squad

without really being in the team but I

don't ever felt like we enjoyed it that

much you know the tournament because you

sometimes get res but it like felt like

a grind didn't it you know it just

didn't feel yours was in England again J

sorry I'm just I'm I'm trying to SP

underw here but when you're obviously

you're playing at Wembley all the time

you you get with that momentum then it

is going to good isn't it more pressure

and obviously Lads are based in England

you got family surely all that comes

into because a lot of ir when you go

away and you sometimes been away for

kind of long spell didn't seem to suit

certain countries because You' always

hear the Brazilian LS they love been

away for four or five weeks together but

as you said if if and if especially if

you think lad's wen't getting on that

well together that does make it a long

tournament you're aware with all doubt

were be that bad was it that bad I

thought it was that bad it was no don't

that bad no no no no I'm not saying it

was that bad I'm say it was the it was

them was it was you but scor you never

you like going away I for example SC

used to come back you on about white you

know scy kind of retired from England

yeah he was you know he's still fairly

young but he used to come back and he

yeah didn't like it I would think the

man united boys I'm not I'm not pinning

on you we were a generation slightly

younger than you that Chelsea Lads so

when I remember com to the squad and

looking at the man united have I'm go oh

like that that they would you would have

G of the room as negative made an effort

Frank sorry would you you were fairly

quiet weren't you you wouldn't have gone

over like to I I just can't visualize

you going over to the Chelsea L for

example just it was good when there was

a cause you know what I mean yeah strike

stri union

man Gary was the kind of person that

when you go back and they say what was

he like what Gary Neville like he say he

I don't not

sure got I could imagine him sitting

down all night

maned dinner was 7:00 she get there

maybe couple of minutes

before under Des honest to God the man

you they all sat there they're done yeah

it's like school did you get more the C

school no I didn't do c School no no but

this this is all not not a diversion

there there were six of us in the squad

where there's a lot of us there there

were a lot of you there and environment

is clearly big because we'll talk about

it at different time you need a good

environment but you don't have to be

best mates and I remember one thing I

remember from yourself and Phil actually

play as players was your mentality I

remember the warm-ups Sheed doing in the

dress room when Phil used to do doggies

in the back of the dress I thought was a

bit much still

do in a positive I like I looked I was

like this is what man united cuz you you

were winning everything pretty much you

that was not to garyan

Phil just in all of our defenses I think

it was quite an intense period between

United Chelsea Arsenal Liverpool there's

a lot of

you we were all going for the Champions

League between s that period of five six

years Jose had come in and was trying to

create a Siege mentality ason Wenger was

obviously with the invincibles Liverpool

was starting to get closer with

obviously Rafa bonitz and there's a lot

of you know anger there between F you

know for S Alex Ferguson V so it was all

a bit like you you at each other's

throat the manager ever get you together

this is my point and and feel that

tension even if you go it's not that

obvious you're not going down and not

speaking to people but you miss

something it wasn't that bad but it

maybe it'd be little things for me so I

know Glenn tried to for instance um he

brought in a single table so basically

rather than having the four round tables

of 10 and then you might sit on

different tables he would bring in the

one big table so you're all sat

basically around one table and things

like that can help um what else think

one of

problems chines I think within that

rivalry if you thought of Chelsea at

that time it was you and John it it

wasn't just like you were in the team

you were like and it probably felt a

little bit like so of Liverpool was me

and St and you were like the class of 92

so the it wasn't just the teams were

against each other the big figures

within those

teams you like did you like going away

with England no not really I remember

for that reason I football nothing to do

with that played Ro you did not but you

must have enjoyed being together and

training with know Roy the tunnel game

Roy the tunnel game uh um Arsenal that

game you remember how arsenal were that

game they were so fired up before the

game Arsenal scor the first goal don't

they what was that the 2-2 no the 42 win

in the end the end yeah we win the game

was that Sharpie no well after that yeah

no it well after that um Ashley Cole I'm

literally sat next to Ash in the

dressing room for England for six seven

eight years Ash comes up to me scream in

my face you [ __ ] after they score the

first goal right Ashley Cole the most

Placid you know Ashley brilliant lad is

he yeah another a great lad

yeah

get Ash come screaming in my face I'm

like what the fu should have booted him

right so literally like a couple of

weeks later you literally sat there next

to him so much was going on you

obviously with Chelsea and there was

that type of thing rivalry took over no

wonder you nothing Jesus this is why

Phil did so much work on environment

when he came into the England job I

think with us and we did I loved going

away with England I absolutely loved it

and I think especially tournaments you

are away maybe you'll have you two three

weeks it's bring you together as a group

yeah he did he he really did yeah his

work off the pitch was really good

Serena carried it on and I think when

you're in a tournament you have the

three-week prep maybe at St George's

part which there's not a lot going on

it's great facilities and then you go

away so you could have like eight nine

weeks together which is a lot and if you

take away the on the pitch time more of

it is obviously spent around each other

and I absolutely loved it and I think

that's why we ended up doing well

because you have to enjoy it like

playing for your country is the biggest

thing ever and I'm sitting here now and

I find it quite sad that at times you

just didn't enjoy it because you look

back and it should be the best day I

don't think there's any any um England

squads like you mentioned like the

golden generation that had the

competitiveness amongst the team like

that generation none not in not in

[Music]

England right Frank want to finish with

Chelsea go go back so Chelsea now but

Chelsea to start with going back to when

obviously Jose joined what was that like

what happened at Chelsea when he arrived

and what impact did it have on your

career uh as as a group he bought um a

huge um self-confidence that rubbed off

we all saw the press conference and we

all felt it the minute he walked into

the room so I think we were we were we

were a good group good players so he

came into a team already that had come

second I think the year before had a bit

of a core of a British the dressing room

we sort of ran the dressing room but he

had that strength within the dressing

room um I think we in that first year we

we got did Big Pete uh cavalo came in so

he went bang is is for other players top

players to make you a better team um

sent us set us up in a pretty simple

structure 433 but at the time it was

soon as a little bit forward thinking

but not much not much to it looking back

um but it was more for me the the

mentality of we're going to win and I'm

telling you so and when you got loads of

20 mid 20s young year old Lads sort of

taking that in I think we all took it in

so it was was the first League match

against United or was second away I was

s a

half give the goal away I we got in

video let's get the

video like no but that was you about a

new manager coming in putting a

statement down and yeah was a big win

even that the season well we we played a

diamond that day for some we went into

433 I don't know why we played a diamond

and it was a bit study the game and it

was a great game we nicked it one nil

but then as we got in as we hit the

ground running all all new things which

which fantastic man management sit there

and go he the next six games we're going

to win that that win that win that wi

that it was new to us do you know what I

mean no one had come in yeah and we're

going we will then that kind of it went

through to the team on a personal level

it was probably pretty similar it was

like I was you know a good player I was

getting better I'd had a decent year

before with with rier in the second year

but I I needed someone and his way with

me was to kind of go you are you're

there and that's you need to win titles

now and me being impressionable was like

okay boss I'll try and do that and and

it helped me do you know what I mean and

it was a lot of that as I said it was

not loads of information to give me

about that it was almost like you'll be

there Mady will be there the other one

might stay a bit more than you there's

your Wingers we do this we do that and

you know it was uh it was spot on some

of the greatest things for me in

management are simple things simple

things mentally simple things on the

pitch as well you mentioned earlier when

you talk about masiri about he doesn't

turn up but then Roman Abramovic didn't

turn up but he was successful what was

sort of like he how was Chelsea so

successful and the model became so so

successful even changing managers all

the time still what was it about Chelsea

under Abramovic that made it such a sort

of success machine really it was I mean

for many years the only United won more

Premier League titles well then it it's

the players isn't it I think if you if

you explain it that way we had such a

strong core of players that when the

manager changed few would be dis scrun a

bit about it if you would be happy

because they might get back in the team

but the basis of it remained that we had

drum being the captain that was there

visually for everyone to see myself who

was behind that a bit quiet but maybe

like like my training I was bit of the

standards man D was like looking after

the boys and address from the African

boys and scen and these ones and the

French speaking and Big Pete so we just

had this however Smart IT personalities

big spine I don't know how much you know

if it would stuck with Jose for that

patch and he stayed on I know Jose

history now sort of looks like he moves

on after a few years anyway and Carlo

left after two years top managers so I'm

not sure it was necessarily the right

but they he did manage to get over the

line again with the players do you know

what I mean and it became you know the

the Roman sort of idea he came and had a

few harsh meetings of us in those few

years when he was more present what

would he say he just come in one was

before we played Old Trafford in the

Champions League he just come and it

just s of be really harsh and I remember

him say once before before the Old

Trafford at the hotel game I think

Chikorita went for and scored early in

the game champion League Quarter final

or something and he sat down and went

and this was translated which makes it

even harsher you know the Russian

translation waiting for the translation

go it's not going to be good you know I

mean and he he was like do I think we're

going to win this game no do I think

will you be here at the end of the

season if we don't win this game a lot

of you know you know that was being

translated to us like two hours before

the game typically we all go out like

little kids shouldn't have been saying

that before the game and all that but

really what he did with I didn't realize

he was so invasive like that he had he

only had a few I've got to say it'd come

to a lot of games and in the early years

my bigger memory is him cuddling us a

bit not too close you know well down

high five and off and that was great but

there were a couple of times I remember

with Carlo onu he came in we won the

league and we won the FA Cup but we got

knocked out by Inter Milan in the

champion Jo was the manager and by Jo by

joose beat us at the bridge and um he

came in and absolutely went sort of went

at everybody from ourselves and manager

it was strong um and then after that we

went about nine unbeaten we were winning

so we start we won 70 8 nil at the back

end the season and it was we had a good

and El could Dr muda and it was we were

strong but we'd been a bit like that he

came in and went B and everyone walked

out the room and then we were on a big

run not saying it was just that but

there was definitely so when I say it

was the players there was also a

cultural thing around the club there it

was like we're winners coming second was

the disaster for and and I felt it as

well we as we as a group of players it's

not the ones that go see you later next

year let in the Champions League next

year anyway it was his culture and

mentality really yeah I think so I think

it just landed and then it was what it

was and maybe sacking managers as much

as it could have been good or bad was a

reminder of the brutality of it so if

you don't live up to the standards of

the owner and if you don't live up to

the standards of the dressing room when

we were strong on that there were loads

of players that came in you know like

not to say this is the reason but Kevin

De bruyne came through and moved on and

mo Salah and that and they're obviously

world class players to say the least now

but there were a lot of players all that

that got patted away that just worked

for Chelsea Frank at the time like I

don't know if that would obviously if

you hear about owners getting involved

people go that's out of order it's this

doing obviously your dressing was strong

enough to deal with all that but I I

love that culture of Chelsea and in

terms that he was just a winner machine

would you like an owner coming in Jim if

you were a player and oh no yeah yeah

but the thing about Chelsea at that time

and changing managers there was always

this feeling from the outside that

Abramovic wanted Chelsea to be like

Barcelona the way they played a little

bit and I could never understand it

because I'm thinking just win every

season I'm always thinking why would you

change that model CU your model almost

reminded me a little bit the way I'd

always see like a bay unich where big

powerful strong you wouldn't want to

play against you got quality but it's

not massively overplaying but you're

your team and you play against you're

thinking how you going to beat there

yeah and I used to just think s you're

winning I I presume that one I'm

presuming a bit here but um there might

have been a lot of people around the

owner the ownership that would be oh

you've done well here but you could play

like Barcelona that's amazing and I

presume that that might have because we

we probably tried that came in didn't

scari vs bers we tried to be a bit more

expansive and it didn't work really and

then when when they left through the

seasons we went gas hi didn't come in

and went bank and then we went with the

players even with Carlo and with um con

the type of managers a bit more formula

and methodical aren't they but but the

the the thing with it as well was I felt

that the Chelsea fans didn't demand they

W they were not looking for Ticket

tackle football I love jobber up front

and me joining on if we did go long and

J like you know what I mean like it was

there was no real desire for it but

maybe you know like in the world was

changing a bit tick attack it was

amazing let's try and do that but it

never really worked when Abramovic came

in was he sense did he know the game was

he like or was he just digging people

out was did you have a run of bad

results or something or it' have been

off the back of a run of results he

never declared himself as to why it was

it was never like go because of this

this this it was more of a if I don't

see you L winning then we'll have to

make changes it was that cut and dried

looking back I appreciate and even at

the time I was a little bit like oh

myself you know what I mean like you

don't want to be one of those players it

worked yeah it did WOW moving on to

modern day Chelsea you to about winning

a winning mentality under Roman

Abramovic the new ownership have come in

and they've tried tried to obviously do

something completely different from a

strategic point of view sort of the

8year contracts do you feel like we're

at the beginning of a winning you know

you've spent 11 um get up three four

five months what three months there last

season do you feel like this is going to

be a successful ownership and that at

the beginning of it or do you think it's

a little bit rabbit in headlights and

they're going to have to change um I I

think it's definitely going to take time

and I think the strategy might have to

develop as it goes because at the minute

you can't forget the one thing that's

important when you've been a winning

club for 20 years you got to win you got

to keep the fans happy you keep the

media you know engaged in it in a way

that's not negativity so I think they're

going to have to change these players

have to develop quickly and I I feel for

the manager a bit not feeling sorry for

him but you know I understand that that

that change is going to take time for

those players to do what he what is he

experiencing there what did you

experience at the end of last season

that you said you thought would be

difficult this season my feeling was

because uh it was a bit different for me

in a way because I probably had half the

squad I remember going through the squad

on the board in in the office and it was

like half the squad at least and this is

30 players I want to leave or been told

that they're going to leave and we had

seven games to go that were going

against like Arsenal playing for the

title Man United playing for Europe Man

City brenford you know all these teams

you go if we've got no you know this

lack of motivation with a group players

want to go with had a few injuries and

stuff it's not going to get there so

when the positive I saw at the end of

the season those players have to go now

for whatever reason some some you might

have say could you have kept him but

whatever moved them on and then bring

but then you're bringing in another

batch of players which is going to take

time and the reality is as well with

with younger players that don't have you

never win anything with youngsters like

the reality is now you look at what Man

City and Liverpool doing there's a gap

and it's going to take time to do that

so I'm not saying that you have to

completely turn the strategy around and

go okay now go and buy the finished

article you know going by Harry Kane in

the summer or going by but I think you

do have to look at going okay what's

talk about spines again we got enough in

the spine there that's going to pull us

through and they is going to be vocal on

the pitch going to drive training every

day cuz the manager you can't do all

those things you know players have to

take I I just look sorry I I just look

at it and I think City and Liverpool for

sort of five or six years are probably

been the two best teams in Europe or the

world if you like and I think Chelsea

almost forget that this new ownership

it's being that scatter on that you you

got top four I think and got to a Cup

Final in your first season then

obviously tle comes in Chelsea would

always third under Thomas tle and yeah

what manager could have competed with a

Liverpool or a man city how good they

were so Chelsea were doing thought they

was doing fine two Cup finals against

Liverpool Liverpool won on penalty

shoots on both of them so they were

competing with the two best teams in

Europe at the time and then the the

owner comes in and then all of a sudden

Chelsea like look like the eighth

whereas like even for a few years you

know they weren't winning

everything they were still really

competitive were the best of the rest if

you're like and it's still competitive

league like spars Arsenal Manchester

United that time they were still sort

like the best team behind those two and

all of a sudden now you look at it you

think the miles away from miles away

from the top two but even sort of like

you look at Villa now even like in

Newcastle you know Manchester United

last season it just feels like so

quickly it's just gone from being almost

there to just miles away yeah yeah no I

see what you're saying the it's a

premier league it moves forward really

quickly and at the time now as I saying

the strategy has been to to to recruit

young and it's going to take time now

you're seeing the difficulties of that

so I don't think anyone can expect I

think if Chelsea you know progression

this year will be starting to play

better and get a better feeling around

the place I don't know what that ends up

in the might be eighth it might be sixth

or whatever I don't know but that it's

just a reality of it that car I agree

with what you're saying just wanted to

ask about J Mourinho and perception of

managers before obviously Jose was seen

as the greatest manager in the world

with Pep Guardiola what do you think's

happened in the last do you think the

game's moved on in terms of style

expectations or do you think there's

still a place for a Jose know playing

the style of play that he plays what

because the perception's changed hasn't

it around Jose in the last few years's

no doubt about that yeah I I think

there's definitely a place for for it

because you know not everyone you manage

with your style and I don't think anyone

would expect him to go miles away from

that CU that's what's given him success

over the years I think the reality is as

well I saw when he lost his job recently

that oh um back to the win percentage um

Jose was 48.2% at Romo which is his

lowest ever that's why he's got to sa of

course it was at Romo he's not a Chelsea

a squad that's going to get 70% win

percentage so everyone's got different

challenges he's got them to two finals

European finals wins one of them doesn't

win the next one um and I just think you

know it's I would never I'm not going to

comment too much I don't know watch Roma

I don't watch Italian yeah on message

and stuff yeah but I don't I I don't I

think it would be quite lazy to kind of

go he's still you know like people talk

about him the old being quite harsh play

he's still a big story up here he is and

I know he's you know been sent off

whatever times over there that comes

with the Jose thing but I when I look at

him I wouldn't want to see think about

exactly how he is with the players at

Roma because I've seen a lot of stuff

this week as well players game thanks

very much I know that can happen a lot

play thanks very much on to the next one

but at the same time I I would have

thought he' adapted he's a smart he's a

smart man he can't change from being

Jose he's one in 30 titles or whatever

it is so I think there's absolutely a

place for him it'll be I think it'd be

interesting to see where he pops up

[Music]

next couple of community questions how

much was natural T Talent versus work

rate to become the elite footballer you

were uh is that that should be a

question for you like as a Viewpoint do

you know I mean it's hard for me to on

Frank was

99% you know what yeah that's like a

back but Frank what you can score goals

from Midfield which is a massive talent

I mean seriously put a lot of work in

Frank as well a lot of work I've saw it

myself West Ham constant finishing and

you know I mean everything you you was

doing in the hard work situation then

obviously talent I remember the remember

that Harry RN that when he done the

interview saying he's going to be this

and he's going to be that because I

always found it Frank very tough for you

especially when we when I came to West H

with your with your dad and your uncle

it was so hard in the even just watching

how how how you had to react to certain

stuff this why I remember suest nepotism

basically well yeah and I remember I

remember you when you when you went back

with Chelsea and you Scot I always sent

a message said nice one Frank you just

do your stuff but that must have been

really tough Frank going through that

stage there yeah it was tough cuz I was

probably 17 18 was a kid still really so

when grown men are giving you stick for

that but now with reflection you look

back and kind of go it was probably a

make it of me because at the time when I

was bit soft but you kind of and then

you get through it and you come through

and it makes you a bit tougher so I

don't reflect on it it was certainly

certainly tough at the time but also it

drive you to work hard as absolutely

prove people wrong yeah that that stuck

with me through my career and it

probably the start of it probably

started there a little bit but I was in

a great environment too at West H

because I had Harry rnap and as much as

it was hard for me having my dad and

uncle probably did help a tiny bit do

you know what I mean in certain ways and

for a little step and and then all

sudden I went and did the step but

players like yourself uh Deano Harry had

a nice little Environ to train and I

loved it cuz I look up people the

socials were amazing but better to say

but I think the original question I

think work hard work is a talent itself

so if you prepared to put in the was

very natural to me like to one did Harry

come up one time and really defend

you it was brilliant it's a beautiful

watch it aged very well I we we used to

room together England

me and when you think

that let's leave it

there but I always when I think of like

sort of you know like the superstars of

the England team and you think of like a

Rio or a Michael Owen or a Rooney or

Stevie they don't do the 21s they just

go bypass it don't they whereas we were

there for like two or three years have

to do your stint and you don't normally

see someone like that you then became

one of the stars of the team and I think

that's test them into sort of you ility

of course but also mentality in the work

that you put in as well because as I

said it wasn't like you were seen as a

star at England of the 21s it was like

there wasn't like a clamor to get you in

the squad yeah and myself had sorted

2021 so you sort of done that stint and

didn't really become a regular for

England did 25 26 yeah no I it's it's

probably 50/50 you know like I think in

in the big scheme of of players that

probably play to get to that top level

some naturally you really evident others

I think you got to work hard and that's

part of the cuz I when I was 17 I was

even at school I was probably not always

the best player in the team or West Ham

youth team so but then I'll be I want to

be so I used to run but again fake

things go in your favor at a football in

family in the dad game you are going to

be you're going to run lose and run you

know what I mean all those things he was

one of those trained his off yeah and

I'm lucky that cuz I've seen kids go by

the wayside that don't have that push

maybe their parents are not as invested

or whatever it is they didn't so I had

things in my favor but it stuck with me

me and I then I had like an obsession

with training but like scoring goals

from Midfield wasn't by chance cuz I

remember watching a video that you did

with the Man City younger players had

circulated at city and you were talking

about the timing into the box and I

remember just looking at the detail that

you were sham with them and I was like

wow this is incredible especially for me

as a midfielder probably should have

followed you more than him I got got

sent off a lot but like you put detail

into absolutely everything didn't you

like your standards and was that goal

scoring something that you've worked on

a lot yeah well I worked on I'm just I

was always like a practical man I

learned it from people at right because

we would do finishes from all sorts of

angles and at all sorts of speeds proper

speed yeah so I would always look at

where am I going to have my shots from

they're either going to be arriving onto

something which should be one or two

touches in the box or it's going to be

me shifting it outside the box and

hitting it and I would just do that

again and again and again and then you

layer it up with like when the wing has

got it you wait you run off the back of

someone diagonal runs all those things

you know I think a lot of top players

isn't intelligence I think it's quite

simple personally maybe that was one of

my talents being out to clock right time

to run rather I'm I'm never going to

beat five players really I can clock the

right time to run and maybe be fitter

than you it's hard to coach that Frank

and I I think a lot of that's instinct

when to make those runs I know you a

brilliant Shadow outside the box but

also getting the end of stuff and again

you're talking about other players

scores he had it jard and a lot of play

players actually do have the good

movement but when they do get in there

they panic and they can't finish but

that's it very hard to coach that yeah

the timing definitely so many times now

I'm where are like so I do think it's a

real a real I think you got to be really

hungry as well I was really hungry for

goals yeah it's a good point I remember

used to work with players midfielders

you talk about getting the box and they

would players would turn on said to me

well and you you mention you and Jared

and schools and all these boys and they

were turn go but I've made three runs

you go know sometimes they've made 20

runs but you only see the end of one

maybe you know you got to keep getting

in there and be brave enough to not get

there and be brave enough to miss but

players make three or four R they think

I've done no no no keep keep getting in

there be bra with you even like I knew

you going honestly you'd be watching the

game Chelsea be like two or three up the

game's finished and everyone just

walking around but if he hadn't scored

he he'd always get one in the last minut

keep I got that Jammy bastard scored

again his other favorite was if he

hadn't scored getting loads of shots in

and saying sorry before anyone's even as

a go I know I know he gets it again he

goes again I didn't realize you were

standing me to

was a bonus is your contract for scoring

goals I was just well play that

was no bonus stuff yeah and last

question which player have you coached

that reminds you of yourself the

most uh um well I used to get asked this

about Mason man it was just an easy

question do you know what I mean and I

didn't really I didn't really see it if

I'm honest I think we had different

attributes we played in a similar era of

the pitch obviously and he sort of ran

forward but he's not got the finishing

he probably no and he you know just talk

to us about him and his move tonight

talk to us about what you see in him as

a player because obiously you believed

in him enormously and got great things

out of him he's obviously struggled in

his first bit at United just talk to us

about him can you a little bit yeah I

mean a bit of injuries as well to be fa

and a team that's Str struggling and a

big negativity in certain ways but um

from my point of view because I took him

to Derby he he he changed everything for

me there really him and tamori and

Wilson a young mason particularly his

level in training um was was high high

level um pressing brilliant off the ball

stuff brilliant uh if you want to give

him information takes it like that we'll

jump we'll recover we'll jump we'll

recover a great lad uh good technically

very good technically so I think he he

was really I think he's really high

level in lows of those areas and and a

proper lad that you say you can give him

anything so I think probably he's

probably suffered from a change into a

bad mentality I look at him he looks

quite a sort of

a I'm trying to say this in the right

way which doesn't sort of if you like

impact negatively upon him but he looks

like a nice a nice mental has he got

that real Fierce mentality no no he has

he's very driven like if you um if you

drop him the face goes I mean straight

away he one of those and not in a bad

way he's like no I want to I want to

show you he absolutely would want to

show he's very determined that don't I

wouldn't be sort of like kidded by as

you say I see what you mean about the

look of him but he definitely is a

determined lad uh I'm not just saying it

because he's my lad a bit and I've had

you know relationship on the pitch in

terms of managing him but I do think

he'll come good because of that and

because of his talent and once the team

gets more structured because I I do

think it's important for a structure of

your team to say that you're you're an

aggressive eight or you're in a 10 and

when the only worry I had when he went

to man united was go where does Bruno

Fernandez and him fit and then you go

and then you got cmir I know it's

starting to develop already and change

probably away from that as an idea but

you kind of go where' you fit and I

think when you are and this is not not

to dig Mason or to dig man united

actually for bringing him in but you got

I think a player that level for that

level of man you got to go this is the

plan what i' want to hear you know what

I mean and my question would be where do

where did we fit he's almost got to play

Cent midfield if

Fernand 433 man isn't is is he basically

the position that you played in that

sort of a you know Bas one sitter and

then one of the two in front I would say

he's probably slightly more advanced

than me in general Play I Like to arrive

from deeper probably drop down and play

a bit more than arrive from deeper I

think he's high where in tles team that

won the Champions League is's a 10

highest 10 on the side two 10 and a nine

and I think he could do that probably

than I could in a way I like to come

from deeper so a bit bit higher up comp

play as a single 10 as well but again

it's you into the captain of the

football club Bruno Fernandez is playing

there who hardly gets injured as far as

I see it so I think that would be a

difficult one that is a conundrum to to

solve as a team to get him you know into

the into the team and his best position

but that's one of his challenges isn't

it if you're good enough you got to find

a way and we can make excuses and again

the injuries have held him back no doubt

and he's gone into a difficult I think

time at United but if he's got that

belief and that

Personality yeah you got find your way

into that team yeah but Roy like like

Frank said it's the structure if he's

got the right structure and you can fit

him in that and that's what that's what

we're saying about United earlier you

got to get get the structure right then

you can put someone like getting the

team Frost I agree on both points

because mace does have to do I think he

will but I think when you go from

certainly when I had him at Derby when I

managed him at Chelsea and then tle came

in but they would dominate a lot of

games my team i' have him jumping would

be quite help the pitch a lot I do think

man united do a lot of their best work

when they're Counterattack him they

turnning teams around and rash going

bang bang bang maybe Ma has got to get

to grips with what that looks like for

him cuz all that high pressing stuff's

great if you're in a high pressing team

they're not massively High pressing Team

all these sort stuff in tight areas up

the pitch which I think he's good at and

can get better at it I think and be more

effective in the Box Score more goals I

don't think they stay there lows and you

kind of going like that they actually go

their best stuff when I when I've

coached against United is probably have

a lot of a ball but be be careful of

that yeah and I'm not sure that m is one

that's going to be going oh yeah I'll

join you Marcus you know what I mean

it's not that's not easy for anybody so

you know it's different style of play as

well what's the best piece of advice

you've ever had to finish um well it'

probably be from my mom and it would be

stay

humble and keep your feet on the ground

no matter what you know what I mean she

was always and she used to say rise

above it would be her things so stay

humble and and Rise Above [ __ ] and I

haven't always managed to do that I

don't think any of us do do you know

what I mean but sometimes I check myself

a little bit that be that nice brilliant

Frank can I ask you one

thing just to say this

oh no he's going to get

youo you must be aware uh obviously when

when you've manag and you do your

interviews and you do that thing where

you're laughing then go serious yeah I

say I love it I used to love

it looking for it now no yeah I you know

you do it or you try to stop it now to

stop

it no but I have I my daughter sent it

to me a ago like was it meme whatever

they call it I don't even really but now

now not now I've seen I can't unse it

I've done a few press conferences where

I've you know you do it and you go

[ __ ] you know I mean can't help it

brilliant well

done Frank in the

middle

anti Irish isn't it I tell

you I want be no I want to

be

right about England

one to

be we just stayed at a different

Hotel dri bus driver thanks

[Music]

everyone