Does Primobolan Act As An AI? Estradiol Blood Work Before And After
Summary
TLDRIn this video, Derek from Placementrates.com discusses the impact of adding 200 milligrams of Primobolan to a testosterone regimen on estrogen levels. He uses the example of 'Vigorous Steve' to illustrate how Primobolan, a DHT derivative, can act as a natural anti-estrogen by competing with testosterone for binding at the aromatase enzyme. This competition may reduce the need for aromatase inhibitors (AIs) and affect the design of hormone protocols, providing insights into optimizing health and performance.
Takeaways
- đ The video discusses the effects of Primobolan (primo) on estrogen metabolism, using a case study from 'Vigorous Steve'.
- đ 'Vigorous Steve' followed a TRT protocol with 250mg of testosterone per week and used DHEA and Pregnenolone to backfill steroidogenesis pathways.
- đ When 'Vigorous Steve' added 200mg of Primobolan to his regimen, his estradiol levels dropped from 73 to 38.4 pg/mL, despite the same dose of testosterone.
- đ€ The drop in estrogen levels suggests that Primobolan has anti-estrogenic properties, similar to Masteron, which inhibits estrogen-induced RNA transcription at the receptor site.
- đĄ The script suggests that Primobolan and other DHT derivatives may compete with testosterone for binding to the aromatase enzyme, thus affecting estrogen production.
- đ« It's important to consider the inherent anti-estrogenic effects of anabolic steroids when designing a protocol to avoid unnecessary use of AIs (Aromatase Inhibitors).
- đĄ The use of DHT derivatives might negate the need for AIs or allow for higher doses of aromatase substrates without inducing estrogenic side effects.
- đ The video emphasizes the importance of understanding how hormones interact in the body to design optimal protocols for performance enhancement and health.
- đ The script highlights that Primobolan's interaction with aromatase is more complex than previously thought, involving competitive binding rather than no interaction at all.
- đ The case study indicates that Primobolan has a built-in anti-estrogenic component, which is worth considering when using it for performance enhancement.
- đ The video encourages viewers to subscribe, follow the blog at placementrates.com, and engage on social media for more in-depth discussions on hormone interactions.
Q & A
What is the main topic discussed in the video script?
-The main topic discussed in the video script is the interaction of Primobolan (a type of anabolic steroid) with aromatase and its effects on estrogen metabolism.
Who is the person mentioned as sending their blood work results for discussion?
-The person mentioned is 'Vigorous Steve', who is known on YouTube and has sent his blood work results to Derek from placementrates.com.
What is the significance of the blood work results shared in the script?
-The blood work results are significant as they demonstrate a decrease in estrogen levels when Primobolan was added to the user's protocol, providing insights into the anti-estrogenic effects of Primobolan.
What is the role of DHEA and Pregnenolone in the context of the script?
-DHEA and Pregnenolone are used to backfill steroidogenesis pathways that may be deficient due to the use of exogenous hormones, helping to maintain hormonal balance.
What was the initial estrogen level before adding Primobolan?
-The initial estrogen level, specifically estradiol, was 73 picograms per milliliter before adding Primobolan.
What was the change in estrogen level after adding 200 milligrams of Primobolan?
-After adding 200 milligrams of Primobolan, the estrogen level dropped to 38.4 picograms per milliliter.
What are DIM and Calcium D-Glucarate, and why were they added to the protocol?
-DIM (Diindolylmethane) and Calcium D-Glucarate are supplements that were added to the protocol to control estrogen levels as a natural, over-the-counter means of handling estrogen metabolism.
How does Primobolan affect estrogen metabolism according to the script?
-Primobolan appears to have an anti-estrogenic effect, possibly by competitively binding to the aromatase enzyme, thus reducing the conversion of testosterone into estradiol.
What is the takeaway message regarding the use of Primobolan in hormone protocols?
-The takeaway is to consider the anti-estrogenic component of Primobolan and other DHT derivatives when designing hormone protocols, as they may reduce the need for additional anti-estrogenic drugs.
What does the script suggest about the interaction of DHT derivatives with aromatase?
-The script suggests that DHT derivatives, such as Primobolan, may have a competitive action for binding with the aromatase enzyme, affecting estrogen metabolism at the enzyme level itself.
Why is it important to understand the interaction of hormones in the body as discussed in the script?
-Understanding the interaction of hormones in the body is important for designing optimal protocols that are conducive to one's goals and health, and for maximizing progress while minimizing potential side effects.
Outlines
đ Hormonal Impact of Primobolan and Aromatase Inhibition
Derek from placementrates.com discusses a case study involving 'Vigorous Steve', who shared his blood work results. The video focuses on the hormonal effects of Primobolan (primo) and its interaction with estrogen metabolism. Steve's TRT protocol included 250mg of testosterone per week, along with DHEA and Pregnenolone to support natural hormone production. When he doubled his DHEA and Pregnenolone dosage and added 200mg of primo, his estradiol levels dropped from 73 to 38.4 pg/mL, despite the same dose of testosterone. The video suggests that primo, like Masteron, has anti-estrogenic properties that inhibit estrogen-induced RNA transcription at the receptor site, thus reducing estradiol levels. This insight is crucial for those considering the use of DHT derivatives in their hormone protocols, as it may reduce the need for aromatase inhibitors (AIs) or allow for higher doses of substances that are substrates for aromatase without causing estrogenic side effects.
đŹ Aromatase Enzyme Interaction and Estrogen Metabolism
This paragraph delves deeper into the interaction of DHT derivatives, such as Primobolan, with the aromatase enzyme and estrogen metabolism. It challenges the previous assumption that because DHT derivatives are not substrates for aromatase, they do not interact with the enzyme at all. The video posits that there is a competitive action for binding at the aromatase enzyme level, suggesting an inherent anti-estrogenic component in DHT derivatives. The discussion emphasizes the importance of understanding these hormonal interactions for designing optimal protocols that balance performance enhancement with health considerations. Derek highlights the need to consider the built-in anti-estrogenic effects of anabolic steroids when formulating a hormone protocol, as it may influence the decision to use AIs or the dosage of other hormones. The video concludes with a teaser for a more detailed exploration of the topic in a future video.
Mindmap
Keywords
đĄPrimobolan
đĄEstrogen
đĄTestosterone
đĄAromatase
đĄEstradiol
đĄDHEA
đĄPregnenolone
đĄDIM (Diindolylmethane)
đĄCalcium D-Glucarate
đĄAnti-Estrogenic
đĄMasteron
Highlights
Derek from placementrates.com discusses the interaction of primobolan with aromatase and estrogen metabolism.
Vigorous Steve's blood work results show a significant drop in estradiol levels when adding primobolan to his TRT protocol.
Primobolan's anti-estrogenic effect is compared to that of masteron, which inhibits estrogen-induced RNA transcription at the receptor site.
The addition of 200 milligrams of primobolan led to a decrease in estradiol levels from 73 to 38.4 pg/mL.
Primobolan and DHT derivatives may compete for binding with aromatase, affecting estrogen metabolism.
The importance of considering the anti-estrogenic component of anabolic steroids in hormone protocols is emphasized.
Use of calcium D-glucorate and DIM for controlling estrogen levels in conjunction with anabolic steroids.
The potential for DHT derivatives to negate the need for aromatase inhibitors (AIs) in certain protocols.
The impact of DHEA and pregnenolone supplementation on steroidogenesis pathways and estradiol levels.
The role of estradiol, estrone, and estriol in assessing hormonal balance and the effects of anabolic steroids.
The concept that EQ and primobolan may not act as AIs but still have anti-estrogenic effects at the aromatase enzyme level.
The idea that DHT derivatives might competitively inhibit testosterone from aromatizing into estradiol.
The practical implications of understanding hormonal interactions for designing optimal protocols.
The potential health benefits of maximizing progress while maintaining health through smart hormonal protocol design.
The importance of not overlooking the inherent anti-estrogenic properties of certain anabolic steroids.
A call to action for further exploration of the blood test results and hormonal theories in an upcoming video.
Transcripts
adding in 200 milligrams of primo what
it did
you would think that his estrogen level
would not be
significantly different using the exact
same dose of test but what we saw
was
what's up guys derek from
placementrates.com
today i am coming at you from a new
location which i will not be in next
video this is just uh for the time being
i had nowhere to set up so here i am
recording with my phone to talk about
primable
and estrogen metabolism so i got a
message today from one of my friends
um you might follow him on youtube his
name is uh he goes by vigorous steve
on youtube and he sent me his blood work
results and i thought this was a good
opportunity to educate on the
interaction with aromatase of primobolan
and dht derivatives in general so
um he got uh his blood work on 250 megs
of tests
per week is kind of like a staple for
him for his uh
um you know like trt protocol and then
he also uses dhea and pregnant alone to
backfill steroidogenesis pathways that
otherwise may be deficient you know
using exogenous hormones where you shut
down certain cascades
that would otherwise uh may be deficient
what he did do is he doubled his dhea
and pregnant alone so he's on
50 milligrams dhea 25 milligrams
pregnant alone
um and by the way when he was on the
dhea pregnant alone test
his estrogen level estradiol was 73
picograms per milliliter
and he keeps a pretty close eye on these
things so moving forward going into his
uh blast phase he added in 200
milligrams of primo
on top of the test he doubled his uh
um dhea and pregnant alone he was at 50
milligrams of the hga 25 milligrams per
gain alone
and above and beyond that he also added
in
um 200 milligrams of dim and a thousand
milligrams of calcium d-glucorate off
the top of my head and
what happened was pretty interesting so
you know typically he'll use uh calcium
to glucorate and dim to control estrogen
levels
to some extent um not to the same extent
as an ai but
you know a bit of like a natural
over-the-counter means of handling
estrogen metabolism to some extent
but it's not as significant as what we
saw reflected in the blood work so
adding in 200 milligrams of primo
what it did you would think that his
estrogen level would not be
significantly different using the exact
same dose of test but what we saw
was a drop down to 38.4 picograms per
milliliter from
that 73 using the same dose of test
so what does this reflect it's like the
same thing we see with masteron where
you'll see a drop in estrogen levels
uh estrodial um specifically because
that's what you know what mostly we're
checking like obviously if you check
estriol
and estrone and um different metabolites
you're going to see alterations in those
two but typically we're looking at
estrodial and
what it indicates is something similar
to what i elaborated on in my eq
video the boulder note video where we
essentially established
that eq doesn't necessarily
act as an ai like you could argue it
does to small
eq goes through aromatase and actually
produces some sort of estrogen
metabolite which cross detects as as
strong via
roche electrochemiluminescence
radioimmunoassay blood test results
however with these dhc derivatives like
masteron
masteron very significantly inhibits
inhibits estrogen-induced rna
transcription at the receptor site and
we see
subsequent um on paper decreases in
estradiol levels
significantly more than primo but primo
in itself too also does this in a
similar way it seems
although not to the extent of something
like masteron but primo
still is anti-estrogenic in itself and
we see this reflected in the blood work
and it's kind of interesting because it
almost seems like
it's kind of like it's not like it acts
as an ai
necessarily it's sort of just like
competitively
it sort of competes for aromatase it
seems where it basically prevents
testosterone from binding and
aromatizing into estradiol to the same
extent it would otherwise if there
wasn't
other competing anabolic energetic
steroids like the primo there to
essentially compete with it for um
binding like i said
so what is this like what's the takeaway
from all this it's basically to consider
the anti-estrogenic component that is
inherently
kind of like built in to the aes you're
using when you're deploying your
protocol because oftentimes guys will
half azurely use ai's when it's
unnecessary or just not take into
account
the decreased estrogenic activity they
may have at the receptor site thereafter
incorporating something like a dht
derivative which
may otherwise negate their necessity to
even use an ai or
allow them to use perhaps at a higher
dose of something that is a substrate
for aromatase in order to reap the
maximum rewards out of it
or use a higher dose than they would
have otherwise that would otherwise
induce gyno or estrogenic side effects
you know there's a myriad of different
you know things to take away from it but
at the end of the day
what we see is a representation of what
happens with dhc derivatives and
their interaction with estrogen
metabolism not just downstream but
more so on the front end at the
aromatase enzyme itself it seems like
there is com
competitive action for binding rather
than just like
you know what was previously assumed to
be
no activity whatsoever they just think
because it's not a substrate for
aromatase
on paper that it doesn't interact with
the enzyme whatsoever that does not seem
to be the case there seems to be
anti-estrogenic components built into it
not inherently through its mastron you
see it on paper how it interacts with uh
after estrogen is bound to the receptor
but we also see in the blood work itself
of what is going on at the aromatase
level and i just thought it was
interesting i thought i'd bring it to
light because
a lot of people don't understand the
like how these hormones are interacting
in the body kind of how to proactively
um design protocols that may be optimal
and most conducive for your goals or to
um keep certain health precautions at
top of mind in the most
conducive way to staying i don't know
like maximizing your progress while also
staying as healthy as you can while you
do so so
things to keep in mind hopefully it
didn't go way over your head i'll do a
more elaborate video
when i get back and uh go over it a bit
further but i thought it was just
interesting to bring the
blood test results to light in the first
place
and um we can dig into them deeper and
dig into the theories a bit deeper when
i get back but for now i thought it was
something to uh touch on in the short
video in terms of
primabolin's interaction with aromatase
it seems to have less of an
anti-estrogenic effect than something
like masteron but it seems to have a
built-in component
um in itself where it seems to compete
for aromatase
and it's worth bringing to light because
a lot of people will just
you know crank their primo through the
roof you know and stack it on top of a
you know test base or whatever and not
really consider this aspect of it so
i'm not saying primo is bad by the way
i'm just saying i'm just saying
something to keep in mind when you are
deploying it
um for a performance enhancement or for
whatever so thank you guys for watching
please like subscribe check out my blog
more playlists.com
follow me on instagram got more plates
underscore more dates facebook snapchat
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talk to you guys
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