AWS Skilled-Based HIRING PROGRAM w. Director of Recruiting (AWS)
Summary
TLDRIn this insightful video, Holly Lee, founder of Holly Le, and Matt, a senior director at Amazon, discuss Amazon's rigorous hiring process and the company's innovative approach to talent acquisition. They delve into the STAR method for answering interview questions, the importance of Amazon's leadership principles, and the recent skill-based hiring initiative that opens opportunities to candidates without a four-year degree. Matt shares his 13-year journey at Amazon, from a contract recruiter to his current role, emphasizing the value of continuous learning and adaptability in the fast-paced tech industry.
Takeaways
- 😀 Holly Lee is the founder of Holly Le, dieo and a VIP coach, known for her expertise in Amazon's hiring process.
- 🏆 Matt has been with Amazon for over 13 years, starting as a contract recruiter and moving through various roles, including Director of AWS early career.
- 🤖 Matt's early roles at Amazon involved supporting the fraud prevention business and being part of one of the first teams to delve into machine learning.
- 📚 Matt helped create and scale the 'Amazon Future Engineer' program, which provided computer science education to millions of students globally.
- 🌐 The 'Amazon Future Engineer' program expanded beyond the US and Canada to the UK, France, Germany, and India, impacting international education systems.
- 🛠️ Matt discussed the 'bar raiser' program at Amazon, emphasizing the importance of leadership principles and the STAR method in interviews.
- 🎓 Amazon has been focusing on skill-based hiring, targeting individuals without four-year degrees and engaging with community colleges for talent development.
- 💼 Holly emphasized the importance of concise communication, advocating for a '16-second Spiel' to effectively convey one's points in a快节奏 environment.
- 🔑 Matt shared insights on interviewing for higher-level positions at AWS, noting the importance of demonstrating impact and understanding business scale.
- 🔄 Holly addressed concerns about career gaps, advising job seekers to focus on storytelling and not to let gaps affect their confidence during interviews.
- 🔑 Matt confirmed that AWS is open to hiring those with career gaps, highlighting the importance of how candidates present their experiences and reasons for the gap.
Q & A
Who is Holly Lee and what is her role?
-Holly Lee is the founder of Holly Le, dieo, and she runs a VIP coach and cohort. She is known for her expertise in coaching for Amazon interviews, although she clarifies that she is not an Amazon coach herself.
What is Matt's background at Amazon?
-Matt joined Amazon 13 years ago as a contract recruiter, supporting the fraud prevention business. He moved to various roles including a full-time role, recruiting manager, and later led recruiting teams for events and software engineers. He also helped hire economists and machine learning scientists for Amazon's Consumer division.
What is the STAR method mentioned in the script?
-The STAR method is a structured way of answering behavioral interview questions. It stands for Situation, Task, Action, and Result. Holly Lee emphasizes its importance in Amazon's high hiring bar for critical thinking and answering interview questions effectively.
Can you explain the Amazon Future Engineer program that Matt worked on?
-The Amazon Future Engineer program was an initiative aimed at providing high-quality Computer Science Education to all students, with a focus on underrepresented and underserved students. Matt helped scale the program globally, reaching about 10 million students, including offering full computer science courses and professional development for teachers.
What is Matt's current role at Amazon?
-Matt is currently the Director of AWS Early Career, a role he has been in for about 3 years. His responsibilities include hiring on a large scale for AWS, particularly focusing on early career opportunities.
What is the 'bar raiser' program at Amazon?
-The 'bar raiser' program at Amazon is a training program for employees who are involved in the hiring process. It helps them to maintain high hiring standards across the company. Matt has participated in and facilitated this program.
What does Holly Lee mean by the '16-second spiel' in the context of Amazon interviews?
-Holly Lee refers to the concept of condensing one's responses to interview questions into a concise format that can be delivered within 16 seconds. This is based on her experience that Amazon executives expect quick, clear, and impactful answers.
How does Matt approach interviewing candidates for technical roles when he is not technically inclined?
-Matt focuses on the leadership principles and competencies, as well as the candidate's ability to articulate their impact and results. He leaves the technical evaluation to those with the relevant expertise.
What advice does Matt give for candidates interviewing for level seven and level eight positions at AWS?
-Matt suggests that candidates should clearly articulate the scope and scale of their past experiences and accomplishments. He also emphasizes the importance of understanding the leadership principles and being able to quantify the impact of their work.
What is the skill-based program at Amazon and who is the target audience?
-The skill-based program at Amazon is aimed at hiring individuals who may not have a four-year degree but possess valuable skills and potential. It targets various roles, including those in AWS and data centers, and is also focused on providing professional readiness to students from community colleges.
How does Amazon handle career gaps on resumes?
-According to Holly Lee, Amazon does not necessarily view career gaps negatively. It's more about the story behind the gap and how candidates explain their time off and its relevance to the role they are applying for.
Outlines
😀 Introduction to Holly Lee and Matt's Amazon Journey
Holly Lee introduces herself as the founder of Holly Le,dieo and a VIP coach, emphasizing her experience with Amazon's rigorous hiring process. She introduces Matt, who has been with Amazon for over a decade, starting as a contract recruiter and moving through various roles, including supporting machine learning initiatives and launching the Amazon Future Engineer program. Matt's role has evolved to Director of AWS early career, highlighting the difficulty of promotions within Amazon and the high hiring bar.
📚 Amazon's Skill-Based Hiring and Education Initiatives
The discussion shifts to Amazon's new focus on skill-based hiring, targeting individuals without four-year degrees who could be valuable contributors. Initiatives include partnerships with community colleges and a micro-internship program to provide paid, flexible work opportunities for students. Matt's involvement as a 'bar raiser' at Amazon is highlighted, along with his experience in interviewing candidates across various roles and the importance of Amazon's leadership principles.
🕒 The Art of Concise Communication in Interviews
Holly and Matt delve into the importance of concise communication during interviews, with Holly advocating for a '16-second spiel' to quickly and effectively convey one's message. They discuss the STAR method for answering interview questions and the need to inspire dialogue. Matt shares his personal experience of refining his interview responses to be more succinct and the value of clear, impactful storytelling.
💼 Insights on Interviewing for Senior Roles at AWS
Matt provides advice for candidates interviewing for level seven and eight positions at AWS, emphasizing the importance of demonstrating scope and scale in one's accomplishments. He discusses the need to understand the size of the business one is interviewing for and to articulate one's impact effectively. The conversation also touches on the availability of graduate and intern positions and the upcoming skill-based program.
🔍 Navigating the Amazon Hiring Process and Career Gaps
The final paragraph addresses strategies for maximizing one's chances of getting an interview at Amazon, including understanding and practicing responses to leadership principle questions. Matt advises on the importance of quantifying results in interview answers and warns against using recent examples without clear outcomes. The conversation also covers the handling of career gaps, with Holly asserting that the narrative around the gap is more important than the gap itself.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Amazon
💡STAR method
💡VIP coach
💡Machine learning
💡Recruiting manager
💡Amazon Future Engineer
💡Leadership principles
💡Bar raiser
💡Skill-based program
💡Micro-internship
💡Career gap
Highlights
Introduction of Holly Lee, founder of Holly Le, dieo, and her VIP coach and cohort experience.
Matt's 13-year journey at Amazon, starting as a contract recruiter and moving through various roles including machine learning and fraud prevention.
The significance of Amazon's early adoption of machine learning and its impact on recruiting roles.
Holly's focus on Amazon's high hiring bar and the STAR method for answering interview questions.
Matt's involvement in creating and scaling the Amazon Future Engineer program, reaching 10 million students globally.
The importance of professional development for teachers in the Amazon Future Engineer program.
Matt's transition to Director of AWS Early Career and the scale of hiring for AWS.
The introduction of Amazon's skill-based hiring program, focusing on removing degree requirements for certain roles.
The concept of micro internships, offering paid experience for students who cannot commit to traditional internships.
Matt's role as a bar raiser at Amazon and the importance of the leadership principles in the hiring process.
Holly's emphasis on the 16-second spiel for concise communication in interviews and presentations.
Matt's perspective on the importance of scope and scale in presenting one's experience during interviews for higher-level positions.
Tips for interviewing at AWS, including understanding leadership principles and practicing the STAR method.
The availability of AWS graduate and intern positions, and advice on applying early and networking.
Holly's advice on handling career gaps in resumes and the importance of storytelling in interviews.
Matt's recommendation for senior directors seeking jobs outside of Amazon, emphasizing the importance of role appropriateness and continuous learning.
Closing remarks from Holly and Matt, thanking the audience for their participation and support.
Transcripts
[Music]
hello everybody if you guys are tuning
in for the very first time my name is
Holly Lee I am the founder of Holly Le
dieo I run a VIP coach and cohort for
the longest time for the last nearly
five years I nominated by my YouTube and
Linkedin commun to be the Amazon coach
but I am not again I am not an Amazon
coach but I love to live and brece
through the Amazon's High hiring bar of
diving deep on thinking really critical
in answering your interview questions
using the star method again Amazon did
not invented the star method but the bar
it is extremely high out of all the
employer that I've worked for and I have
worked for most of the 90% of the
maintained companies out there but
enough about all of that I wanted to
quickly introduce you to Matt so I
joined Amazon about 13 years years ago I
actually joined as a contract recruiter
supporting our fraud prevention business
moved to full-time role supporting that
business then moved to a recruiting
manager role for that business that was
an interesting business to support it
was very technical organization they
were one of the first in Amazon to
really get into machine learning as well
and so those roles became important for
the organizations from there as Holly
mentioned we had some reorganization
within Amazon there was was a bigger
consumer organization coming together
our recruiting organizations did the
same thing and at that time I moved to
kind of some centers of excellence type
recruiting teams and leading those
around events recruiting where we had
some teams based in Seattle recruiting
together for software engineers and then
also helped hire some of the first
economists in Amazon supporting our
cheap economists at the time and some of
our research scientists machine learning
scientists for Consumer I did that for
four or five years and then I kind of
leaned into Amazon's working backwards
process and narrative writing culture
and I wrote an idea around a program
called Amazon future engineer this
program at a high level was interested
in making sure all students particularly
underrepresented and underserved
students had access to highquality
Computer Science Education and then that
became my next job and so I was
fortunate to get some support from our
business teams to start this program and
then eventually scale the program in my
time with the program we reached about
10 million students globally with
Computer Science Education including
about 130,000 students in the US with a
full computer science course and
focusing on helping teachers with
professional development so they could
bring a computer science course to their
school and then my last with that
program I was supporting International
launches and we've launched that program
now outside the US and Canada the UK
France Germany and India and I believe
since I've moved on they've launched and
a few more but that was really
interesting work dealing with the public
education system I'd never had
experience with before and public
Educators and students KES or 12 very
interesting and then education systems
outside the US and then also what the
perceptions were of Amazon working with
public schools and things like that was
very interesting I moved about 3 years
ago into the role I'm in now which is
director of AWS early career and have
been doing this role I didn't have
experience prior with AWS so this was a
new business for me to support and then
early career space was new for me as
well so it's been really interesting
learning and then hiring on a scale that
I never would have dreamed of before to
to AWS and so that's been a great
experience so yeah that's a bit about my
journey here at Amazon and then most
recently moving to AWS the bridge
between the last two roles was I was
helping a lot of Young Learners learn
about technology and computer science
education and I was really key on like
how can we bridge that to great jobs and
specifically an early career I think
you're underselling yourself a little
bit it's not about uh Matt's background
being in talent talent acquisition
meaning recruiting right it is hard to
get promoted within Amazon and doing it
multiple times it is rare most people at
Amazon I'm not saying this to freak you
guys out it is true and I'm very matter
of fact you know you guys are here
because you know that I'm very
transparent I don't tell you things you
want to hear I tell you things you need
to know a lot of people retire as a
level seven because it's very hard to
get promoted from 5 to six and once
you're at that six uh level six that is
Mark Amazon to me because I have work at
Microsoft I worked at meta most recently
Facebook I work at Google in my earlier
on the career even though it is level to
level on than to thing but the hiring
bar and the scope and scale on Amazon is
too stripe above I can confidently share
that with you as well Matt because I was
there even as level seven at M is really
when you look at scoop and scale is more
like a five so let's chat a little bit
about the skill-based program it was
launched I believe I saw an article
pretty recently what is that about and
who would be the Right audience for it
as a part of the early career remit we
you might think of that primarily as
hiring from universities and forye
schools globally and that's true but
we've also started to get more into what
we described skill space hiring which
might be hiring folks who may not have a
4-year degree and this has already been
happening historically in our data
center hiring but now we're looking at
it in other areas and the essential
notion is we believe we call that
Amazon's raising the bar so we believe
there's bar raising Builders who might
not have a four-year degree that would
still be a valuable employee at Amazon
AWS and so for that notion looking at
where we might be able to remove degree
requirements we don't think it's
necessary to hire a bar raising Builder
the second part is focusing on
communities of talent that we can
support into getting into these pools
and primarily in the last year so's been
focusing on me college ships notably the
Seattle college system at which is in of
course Seattle but it's it's a few
community colleges in the Seattle area
and then also overlapping our hq2 region
around Arlington working with North
Virginia Community College on some
programming and working with their
students where we have these jobs
available and then the last part that we
mentioned in that an article was around
a micro internship concept that we're
going to start with North Virginia
Community College but it'll essentially
be some asynchronous work and tasks
which students do get paid for but
accommodate something outside your
traditional 12we internship
understanding that some students may not
be able to relocate across the country
or step out for 12 weeks to do a
traditional internship and they'll still
give them an opportunity to get some
paid experience working with along with
North Virginia Community College
so all the times that you have been with
Amazon Matt now did you participate or
were you facilitator in any of the
training any training bar raiser program
or anything like do you have do you have
time for that stuff yeah I'm a bar
raiser at Amazon so I've gone through
the bar raiser program participate at
active barer at Amazon and I
interestingly I did that training at the
beginning on my last role when we were
in the business and that exposed me to
then baring for all sorts of roles
across Amazon including some roles I
never had been familiar with before we
had a Services business and we were
hiring full-time electricians you know I
had to learn about and get experience i'
been pretty active in barer and then
also I've supported other barers in
training as they've been doing that and
supporting their process as well so
mostly in that and then towards my
earlier time at Amazon was more I
supported some of them making great
hiring decisions training that happens
for folks to get prepared to interview
others at Amazon now what type of
questions were you asking for an e guy I
mean this is completely outside of your
software consumer and product background
what were the competency or LP that you
were focusing I mean you really have to
lean in and especially as a bar raiser a
non-technical bar raiser on maybe a
technical Loop generally you really have
to lean into the leadership principles
and there's generally most the
competencies are oriented around that
and then we'll have some folks that can
look at the technical competencies those
leadership principles along with being
prepared for questions like tell me
about a time type of thing he should be
prepared for and those are the types of
questions that I would ask and I think
you'll get I didn't find it too unusual
to interview that so you can still get a
good sense of their impact and should
they as you mentioning towards the start
of this like working through the star
mes that getting to the results and
quantifying results you can still get a
good sense of their work and impact the
one thing I talk a lot about is the 16
second Spiel I know a lot of amazonians
especially the one who's been there for
10 plus years some of them may not agree
with me but and Matt I would love to
hear your point in that and I like to
ask a lot of the folks who are still at
Amazon for their feedback so basically
how I came up with the 60c not elevator
pitch but basically per each answer as
in playing ping pong we're not talking
about the entire interview each question
is a minute to wrap it up it usually
takes about 10 minutes or so even longer
but what I'm trying to teach my audience
in private coaching or my VIP uh
coaching program is going back and forth
like playing pingpong um because it all
started in Alexa where I have been yell
that a lot I'm very transparent but I
love love my growth opportunity at
Amazon is because it doesn't matter how
good you are it doesn't matter if you
have a lot of data it matters how incise
your data your matri are and you're able
to present that so because of being the
room with all these executive from
consumer to Alexa and then Kindle and
whatnot I've learned to tie myself 60c
from the moment I start making a
presentation no more than 60c or
someone's going to tell me to get the
hell out of the room to to avoid doing
so I taught myself a 16 minute Spiel so
I when I left Amazon I tried a same
Spiel at meta they did not like that
they asked me to slow down they're thing
I actually I man I would I've been
called I'm too Amazonian and they
haven't even worked at Amazon yet by the
way they're like yeah we have some
Amazonian in here they don't work out
cuz they're going too fast no I want to
see your white paper I'm like what no
white paper then how do you know what
what you how to build entire strategy
right so nothing like nope we don't want
to know we don't just tell us what you
need I'm like well I I need data to
prove my point the whole theory of the
60-second elevator speech or to time
yourself is you actually have 8 to 10
sentences to answer every single
interview answer what is your take on
that in the 60c or less being simple
concise is good a minute sounds fast but
as you get up to talking to yeah
director V level you definitely have
limited time to make your point to give
some context so when you switch roles at
Amazon you have to interview I had to do
that in a role I'm in currently and I
hadn't done it for a while I practiced
interviewing and I would Zoom tape
myself and I was looking at the time
coming down I didn't get down to a
minute it was coming down from initially
like 5 to six minute responses to maybe
like a third of that and I think what
helped was like you get what you said
get your main points in order to
understand the structure of how you want
to your answers and then agree that you
want to inspire a dialogue and and 2-way
conversation and if you go on for 5 six
minutes you kind of sucked the air out
of the room and the person might have
wanted to get in there in between and
you didn't allow for it so I think you
know one to two minutes is probably a
sweet spot on initial response and
generally being clear concise but also
getting through the entire kind of star
process and method is is important and
generally works well when it comes to
making presentations and being able to
influence at a level seven and level
eight levels man and this is more
appropriate for for you at the moment
what would you say it it is the best
tips that you could provide for those
who's interviewing for level seven and
level eight what is what differentiate
the two level when it comes to how they
show up for their interview at AWS it's
I a lot of it's kind of the scope and
scale of what you've done I think in
terms of how you present yourself and
communication those are finer points
that I believe get taken into
consideration but there's really kind of
a scope and scale that usually is a
determining factor and I think it's
important then as you're demonstrating
your abilities and talking about your
experience to make sure that's very
clear in what you've accomplished and
well articulated documented in your
resume hopefully so that comes across to
the interviewer it's helpful also to
understand if you're interviewing for
certain business or something you
understand the size and scope by which
they're operating and then you might be
able to kind of merge those two things a
bit to understand better where the
expectations might fly but that's really
the part that I think would
differentiate fol and you know you might
have done some like a kind of a project
but if you're doing it for some hundreds
of folks versus some millions of folks
that town and like even small problems
can become quite large at different
scales and so I think it's important to
if you have been operating at a very
large scale Andor built thing from the
ground up that you able to walk through
and want to that impact is Amazon and
the group companies including AWS
releasing graduate position for the
states yeah we have been making some
hires in some areas and certainly
interns intern positions have been open
and I would keep an eye out you know as
potentially business conditions change
that can change as well so you might
have observed just a more limited volume
if you've been been following like
year-over year but I believe we have had
Su they just might have come and gone
Pretty When does the Live program starts
I'm just going to assume that it is a
skill-based program has that started yet
met yeah so the skills based I mean it's
really more of an internal program the
opportunity for folks to apply to roles
without degrees exists now and it's
there's not necessarily one spot where
you can find all these roles that may
not require a degree but you can look at
some of the support roles in AWS some of
the data center roles and you'll see
that opportunity where we're working
with some of the community colleges that
is active happening right now we also
keep your eyes peeled but we do
sometimes School agnostic events and
virtual sometimes including over twitch
and running some of those sessions and
those are Global so we've done some of
those in India we've done some of those
in the states um so you can keep an eye
open for that and those are good I would
say professional preparation type
workshops we'll have Business Leaders on
the call we'll do mock interviews you'll
hear from some of the recruiters and
then they'll also talk about some of the
open positions so those are ongoing and
then the last on the micro internship
that will probably be coming with is
specific initially with the northern
Virginia College and that's coming
probably towards the if you're familiar
with the Amazon hiring process what do
you actually look for how can I maximize
my chances of getting an interview so
definitely you need to understand the
leadership principles of Amazon study
them I think you can find pretty good
resources publicly on the types of
questions which may get asked against
those leadership principles I definitely
think it's worth the time and effort to
practice I agree with Holly on thinking
practicing your answer having your keep
wies mapped out making sure when you
give a response you're able to Traverse
the whole starve process and then
particularly where folk I see folks
typically drop off is or whatever they
just the result is missing of and their
answer or it's it might be there but
hard to quantify and then also i'
probably be careful of giving examples
where you have maybe a good example but
it's fairly recent and you don't have a
result yet those are those are hard then
as a a person interviewing you to make
sense of is this raising the bar or not
cuz I can't quantify then hence like the
scope and size of what you're talking
about I can't really figure out yet so
I'd be careful on those those responses
and then after that I think where you're
able to give like a more novel answer or
something that might differentiate you a
bit from what you think the your
interviewer might hear a lot those are
good but more importantly I think is
getting through that whole star process
and having a good size and scope of
impact I recently interview for aw as
intrm this summer but I was notified
that I'm put on a weight list due to
access head count is there something I
can do to get off the weight list if
that was the case and you're not a fight
of that I don't have any VI information
we do have a certain volume of
internship available any given Year and
that said I would definitely be try to
be earlier than later of course when
you're applying and trying to network
maybe to get interviews for the
internship I think that is key depending
on the season and where you go to School
you may or may not see AWS
Representatives any given year so
definitely you be proactive self-drive
that um and also it's on the wait list
opportunities could come depending on
different business conditions that may
arise but yeah I wouldn't have any
additional information beyond that just
general tips that I'm able to offer is
there any chance will the skill-based
program be open as application for
people who already have a bachelor's
degree and who want to work with AWS
through this program yeah I mean again
the if you want to up app to rules that
don't require a degree and you have a
degree that's fine and then there's just
additional programming so the example I
use a lot when I talk is your average
and I've been I'm in Nashville now but
I've been based in Seattle for quite a
while your average computer science
student at University of Washington
usually has a lot of resources in the
form of their peers or maybe their
Professor that can speak to them a bit
about what it's like to interview and
even interm at Amazon and that's really
help your average student maybe at North
seatt College where they do now offer a
four-year care science degree may not
have those safe resources and so what
we're trying to do there is just make
sure there's a professional Readiness
Equity that we can provide both sets of
students that might be Ling for jobs so
that that's there regardless and then in
the case you might be interested in some
of the jobs that don't have a degree
requirement you have a degree is
perfectly fine do you have any
recommendation on how a senior director
can land a job outside of being able to
articulate and sharing their example
around the St method and all of that you
have to look at the size and the company
you're at with respect not just Amazon
but wherever you're looking so I think
that's important to make sure you're
looking at appropriate roles and
engaging around in appropriate roles so
that might be you know a lot of places
are smaller than Amazon so you might
need to look at roles that would be
different not not necessarily a director
title and it can go the other way too if
you're at a bigger company going a
smaller company or something the titles
might be so I think kind of helpful to
make sure you're trying to engage and
apply and get into the interview process
on appropriate roles so making sure
you're doing that in terms of technology
I mean I don't know if I have anything
novel other than technology is kind of
changing by the day lately and you know
generative Ai and all that I think at
the very least it's good to be up the
speed on those things being curious
about those things of course learn and
be curious is an important leadership
principle at Amazon so where you might
not have direct professional experience
maybe you're seeking certifications that
aw offers or learning modules that AWS
offers to show that Curiosity you're
trying to keep up with the the new
technology even though it might not be
prevalent from your company I think can
show a good sign of initiative and
curiosity just wanted to know if there's
any job opportunities Happ career Gap
and since I felt that my resume is not
getting shortlisted maybe because of
less experience let me ask you a
clarifying questions Emma When you
mention career Gap what are we referring
to is it one year 5 years 10 years I can
tell you right now this is the number
one questions that I'm getting a lot
average of 3 to 5 years and I think
that's forgiven since Co right A lot of
people are struggling to come back and
land the right role many have to pay the
bill I get it you're the head of househ
or your single mom or dad but I
personally do not think that career Gap
is an issue is about the story behind it
and I also have some Customer because
they were laid off at Co they went back
and got a master's degree or PhD
whatever your priority is it's about how
you tell your story and why you're
taking time off so don't let that Amper
your confident level and also should
probably say that many of you are afraid
to negotiate when it comes to salary two
years is nothing oh come on two years is
nothing I mentioned Co that's four years
ago 10 years I've heard 10 years 5 years
in average so remember tell a good story
and why you're taking a gap do not share
things that are personal to the
interviewer thank you so much everybody
for being there either you're new or
you're old thank you so much for your
support please thank Matt for his time
being there and thank you so much
everyone have a great day
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