Rick Rule on Market Meltdowns, Mining Insights, and Investment Strategies

Summary

In this interview, Shay Russell from mining.com engages in a deep conversation with Rick Rule, a seasoned private speculator, discussing market trends, the Japanese carry trade, and the impact on the US Treasury Market. They delve into the mining and metals sector, the role of AI in exploration, and the significance of commodities like uranium, copper, and gold. Rick also shares insights on private placements and his upcoming boot camp, emphasizing the importance of understanding value in investment decisions.

Takeaways

• 📉 The script discusses a recent market meltdown and attributes it partly to the unwinding of the Japanese carry trade, which has led to a significant drop in Japanese bank shares.
• 🌐 Rick Rule emphasizes the importance of recognizing market trends and probability, using the example of the unsustainable uranium price that eventually corrected itself.
• 💼 The conversation highlights the impact of foreign buyers, particularly Japanese investors, on the US Treasury market, suggesting challenges ahead due to the reduced participation in the carry trade.
• 📈 Despite a market downturn, the mining sector, specifically in Australia, did not fall as much as the broader market, hinting at potential optimism for miners.
• 🚀 Rick Rule suggests that the downturn in tech stocks was due to their overvaluation and speculative nature, contrasting this with the more grounded expectations in the mining sector.
• 💡 The use of artificial intelligence in mining, particularly in exploration, is seen as a tool to augment traditional methods rather than replace them.
• 🏕️ Diggers and Dealers conference is portrayed as a significant event in the mining industry, with discussions focusing on key commodities like copper, gold, and uranium.
• 💰 The script touches on the fundraising aspect of the Diggers and Dealers conference, noting a shift in focus towards commodities that are currently more appealing for investment.
• ☢️ Uranium is highlighted as having unique structural attractions as a commodity, with discussions at the conference indicating a renewed interest in nuclear energy.
• 🤝 Rick Rule shares anecdotes from his experiences at mining conferences, emphasizing the high level of technical knowledge present despite the informal atmosphere.
• 📈 The script concludes with advice on viewing market volatility as opportunities for investment, encouraging investors to understand the value of their assets and buy during sales.

Q & A

What is Rick Rule's perspective on the recent market meltdown?

Rick Rule believes that the market meltdown was not surprising, especially considering the unwinding of the Japanese carry trade and the unsustainable uranium pricing. He suggests that people often ignore the signs until the price action makes the narrative more believable.

What does Rick Rule think about the Japanese carry trade and its impact on the market?

Rick Rule explains that the Japanese carry trade, which involved borrowing cheaply in Yen and investing in higher-yield securities, has been a factor for 40 years. The unwinding of this trade, particularly when the Japanese banks' balance sheets are affected, is not unexpected and has contributed to the market decline.

How does Rick Rule view the role of the Japanese banks in the US Treasury market?

He points out that Japanese banks, as a result of the carry trade, have been significant buyers of US treasuries, especially in the absence of China. Their withdrawal as marginal buyers could pose a challenge to the US Treasury Market, which is the largest securities market in the world.

What is Rick Rule's opinion on the mining index's performance during the market meltdown?

Rick Rule suggests that the mining index, particularly in Australia, did not fall as hard as the broader market. He attributes this to the fact that mining stocks were not overvalued and did not have a success premium built into them, unlike the US technology sector.

How does Rick Rule perceive the use of artificial intelligence in mining exploration?

Rick Rule acknowledges that while AI can't replace human expertise, it can make the deployment of human resources more intelligent. He cites examples of using satellite imagery to narrow down exploration areas and AI's role in synthesizing different types of data for target generation.

What are Rick Rule's thoughts on the importance of copper and gold in the current market?

Rick Rule believes that the focus on copper and gold is warranted due to their importance and the ability to raise capital around these commodities. He also mentions that the market's softness presents a good opportunity for these commodities.

What does Rick Rule think about the political stance on uranium in Australia?

Rick Rule finds the anti-uranium narrative in Australia puzzling, given the country's significant uranium endowment and the benefits of nuclear energy. He suggests that the opposition is thin and not well-founded.

What is Rick Rule's view on private placements in the mining sector?

Rick Rule sees private placements as a significant opportunity, especially when the market is down. He advises investors to look at volatility as frequent sales and to be prepared to invest when others are running for the exits.

What is the main focus of Rick Rule's upcoming boot camp on private placements?

The boot camp will cover various aspects of private placements, including how to structure them, when to invest, the differences between private and public investments, and the specifics of Australian, American, and Canadian private placements.

What advice does Rick Rule give to investors regarding market volatility and catastrophic declines?

Rick Rule advises investors to view market volatility as sales and catastrophic declines as once-in-a-decade sales. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the value of an investment and being prepared to buy when prices are cheaper.

What is Rick Rule's recollection of his early experiences at the Diggers and Dealers conference?

Rick Rule recalls the early days of the conference as a time of high technical competence, combined with a unique atmosphere of frivolity. He also mentions the profitability of attending the conference in its early years due to the lack of competition and the cheap valuations of Australian mining stocks.

Outlines

00:00

📉 Market Meltdown and Japanese Carry Trade Analysis

In this segment, Shay Russell interviews Rick Rule about recent market events, focusing on the Japanese carry trade's impact on financial markets. Rick explains the 40-year trend of Japan's government spending and how it has led to the current situation with Japanese banks. He discusses the artificially low interest rates that have allowed banks to borrow cheaply in Yen, and the consequences of unwinding this practice. Rick also touches on the importance of recognizing market signs and narratives before they materialize, using the example of uranium prices. The conversation shifts to the US Treasury Market and its challenges due to the reduced demand from Japanese investors, hinting at potential future issues in this sector.

05:00

🏭 Mining Market Stability and Technology Integration

The second paragraph delves into the relative stability of the mining sector during market meltdowns. It contrasts the resilience of mining stocks with the volatility of tech stocks, which were heavily owned on margin and lacked a value-based investment narrative. Rick suggests that the Australian mining market's strength is underpinned by free cash flow, allowing it to recover more quickly from market crashes. The discussion also explores the role of artificial intelligence in exploration, with Rick highlighting the benefits of technology in refining exploration strategies without replacing the need for human expertise.

10:03

🚩 Diggers and Dealers Conference Insights

This segment focuses on the annual Diggers and Dealers conference in Australia, discussing the key commodities of interest, particularly copper and gold. Rick notes a shift in focus from these traditional commodities to lithium and rare earths in previous years, but a return to copper and gold due to their reliability in fundraising. He also comments on the historical significance of gold in Western Australia and the current market conditions that favor discussions around these metals. The conversation includes Rick's personal experiences and observations from the conference, emphasizing the balance between technical knowledge and social aspects.

15:05

☢️ Uranium Advocacy and Political Dynamics

The conversation turns to uranium and nuclear energy, with Rick discussing the political stance on uranium in Australia and the inconsistencies in opposition to nuclear power. He critiques the anti-uranium narrative and highlights the benefits of uranium as a carbon-free energy source. Rick also touches on the economic and social benefits of uranium mining, suggesting that a more equitable distribution of profits could alleviate local opposition. The segment includes commentary on the political landscape and the need for a rational approach to nuclear energy.

20:05

🎉 Memories and Experiences from Diggers and Dealers

Rick shares his favorite memory from the Diggers and Dealers conference, which involves a humorous interview with the ABC where he appeared with two bottles of beer in his pocket. He reflects on the unique atmosphere of the conference, combining social frivolity with serious technical discussions. Rick also reminisces about the early days of the conference, highlighting the opportunities it presented for investment and the high caliber of knowledge shared among attendees.

25:07

📈 Private Placements Boot Camp and Market Strategy

In this paragraph, Rick introduces an upcoming boot camp focused on private placements, detailing the comprehensive curriculum and the intensive nature of the eight-hour program. He emphasizes the practical aspects of private placements, covering various types of investments and strategies for identifying opportunities. Rick also shares his philosophy on market volatility, advising investors to view price declines as sales and to act contrarian to market sentiment. The segment concludes with an invitation for listeners to engage with Rick's investment media platform for further insights.

💡 Final Thoughts on Mining Market and Investment Wisdom

Rick concludes the interview with final thoughts on the mining market, encouraging investors to see market declines as opportunities for buying and to maintain a contrarian mindset. He advises against greed during market peaks and emphasizes the importance of understanding a stock's value before investing. Rick's parting advice is to take advantage of market sales and to have the courage to invest when others are selling, highlighting the long-term benefits of this approach.

Keywords

💡Market Meltdown

A 'Market Meltdown' refers to a sharp and sudden decline in the stock market, often triggered by economic indicators or investor sentiment. In the video, the theme revolves around recent market events, specifically a significant drop in market indices within a short period. The term is used to describe the situation with Japanese banks and the broader implications for the US Treasury market.

💡Japanese Carry Trade

The 'Japanese Carry Trade' involves borrowing money in Japan at low-interest rates and investing it in higher-yielding assets abroad. The script discusses the consequences of unwinding this trade after 40 years, which has led to a significant decline in Japanese banks' stock prices and broader market implications.

💡Uranium

Uranium is a key element in this video, being a focus of market discussion and investment. It is mentioned as an unsustainable market when priced at $20 a pound, given the cost of production is $60 a pound. The script uses uranium as an example of market inefficiencies and the eventual correction when price and value diverge.

💡Speculative Tech Stocks

Speculative tech stocks are shares in technology companies that investors buy based on the expectation of high future earnings or growth, often with little regard for current valuations. The script contrasts these with mining stocks, noting that the mining index did not fall as hard during the market meltdown, possibly due to a lack of speculative investment.

💡Free Cash Flow

Free cash flow is the cash a company generates after accounting for cash outflows to support operations and maintain its capital assets. In the context of the video, it is mentioned as a fundamental value underpinning share prices, especially in the Australian mining market, which helps companies recover more quickly from market crashes.

💡Enterprise Value to EBIT

Enterprise Value to EBIT (Earnings Before Interest and Taxes) is a valuation ratio used to compare a company's enterprise value to its profitability. The script uses this ratio to illustrate the overvaluation of the US technology sector compared to the Australian mining sector, suggesting the latter is less prone to severe market corrections.

💡Artificial Intelligence in Exploration

The use of artificial intelligence (AI) in exploration refers to leveraging AI for analyzing geological data, improving the efficiency of mineral exploration. The script discusses how AI can synthesize various types of data to generate exploration targets, enhancing traditional methods rather than replacing them.

💡Diggers and Dealers

Diggers and Dealers is an annual mining industry conference in Australia. The script mentions it as a place where key commodities like copper and gold are discussed, and it serves as a platform for raising capital in the mining sector. It also highlights the conference's unique atmosphere and historical significance.

💡Private Placements

Private placements are a method of raising capital in which a company issues securities to a small group of investors, typically at a fixed price. The script discusses an upcoming boot camp focused on private placements, emphasizing the importance of understanding their structure, benefits, and risks for investors.

💡Contrarian Investing

Contrarian investing is an investment strategy that involves buying assets that are performing poorly and selling those that are performing well, based on the belief that their performance will eventually reverse. The script encourages viewers to adopt a contrarian mindset, using market volatility as an opportunity to buy undervalued assets.

💡Value Investing

Value investing is an investment approach that involves selecting stocks that appear to be trading for less than their intrinsic value. The script touches on the importance of understanding a company's value before investing and using price declines as opportunities to buy more of a stock at a discount.

Highlights

Rick Rule discusses the Japanese carry trade's impact on the market and the importance of recognizing trends and probabilities in investment.

The conversation touches on the unsustainability of uranium prices and the importance of cost analysis in commodity investments.

Analysis of the recent market meltdown, attributing it to the unwinding of the Japanese yen carry trade and its effects on the US Treasury market.

Rick Rule suggests that the Australian mining index's relative stability is due to its underpinning by free cash flow and less speculative nature.

Exploration of the role of artificial intelligence in the mining sector, with a focus on how it can enhance traditional exploration methods.

Discussion on the Diggers and Dealers mining conference, highlighting its significance in the industry and the focus on key commodities like copper and gold.

Rick's perspective on uranium as a commodity with unique structural attractions and its importance in the current market context.

Reflection on the political stance towards uranium in Australia, questioning the anti-uranium narrative and its implications.

Rick shares his experience with private placements and their significance in natural resource investing.

Announcement of an upcoming boot camp focused on private placements, aiming to educate investors on this investment method.

Rick's personal anecdotes from the Diggers and Dealers conference, emphasizing the unique atmosphere and high level of technical knowledge.

The importance of understanding value in investments and viewing market volatility as opportunities for savvy investors.

Advice on not being too greedy with investment gains and knowing when to sell during market highs.

Invitation for listeners to get their natural resource stocks ranked by Rick Rule for free, offering insights into individual stocks.

Closing thoughts on the importance of being a contrarian investor and capitalizing on market sales and declines.

Transcripts

I'm Shay Russell from mining.com and

joining me today is Rick rule who humbly

calls himself a private Speculator but

really Rick you don't need any

introduction Rick how are you today it's

so good to see you again life is very

good uh the better in fact Shay for

being on air with you thank you uh I am

thrilled to have you back on I have now

recovered from both my hand hang over in

my incredibly long time it took me to go

see you in boa R return Florida this

year for the rural investment Symposium

that took a little bit but I don't want

to talk about uh my travel WS I actually

want to talk about some of the things

that are happening in the market today

uh and I guess most recently is this

Market meltdown that we've seen in the

past two hours uh listen there's a few

moving elements to it but if you sort of

got a A View here on what happened that

you can share with everybody well I

guess a couple views uh I think it's

interesting that people people are

surprised for the first thing um you

know I'm not as you know a real doomster

but I do look at Trends in motion and

talk about probability so let's talk

about the Japanese carry trade first 40

Years of excessive government

spending 40 Years of debt and

deficits and 40 Years of fostering

exports through weakening the currency

with artificially low interest rates

allowing the banks to reflate their own

balance sheet by subsidizing them uh

allowing them to borrow cheaply in Yen

with a low interest rate that

presupposes that the currency will go

down while allowing them to buy higher

yield us secur uh uh Securities where

the currency might go up is it a

surprise that when you begin to unwind

that the Japanese Banks decline by 30%

in price probably not

the thing that's interesting is that

investors look at narratives where the

narrative hasn't been proven by Price

action and they ignore it Shay you

remember talking to me in

2022 when I said to you the uranium

price at $20 a pound is unsustainable

because it costs the world $60 a pound

to make the stuff you make it for 60 you

sell it for 20 try and make it up on

volume because you're a dumb minor uh

and sooner or later you have a problem

this was apparent to everybody but

nobody wanted to buy uranium until it

had already gone up to 80 bucks the

circumstance that we see with the

Japanese carry trade and the

circumstance that we see with with

uranium are the

same the sign posts are there and people

ignore them until they come to pass when

they come to pass the price action makes

the narrative much more believable um

okay so some of these major indices have

bounced back up is this really just an

overreaction from the markets to the

unwinding of the dolly Yen carry trade

uh I think not but I think we've seen

the most dramatic part of it remember

Shay at least with regards to the

American market and in particular the

American treasury

market that uh prices aren't set across

the whole spectrum of buys and sells

they're set against the

margin and if the marginal buyer goes

away then the price

declines uh the most important foreign

buyer of us treasuries in the absence of

China which has been largely absent for

five or six years has been the Japanese

as a consequence of the the carry trade

the marginal non-us buyers of us

treasuries has gone

away which is going to be I think maybe

not a catastrophe but certainly a

challenge for the US Treasury Market

which is the largest Securities Market

in the world by a country mile it may

also impact other markets like the US

equities Market but I think the place

that's concerning in the next 12 to 14

months will be the US Treasury Market I

just want to shift gears just to smidge

and bring it back to sort of Mining and

metals now I noticed in Australia and

I'm probably about to be caught out here

because I didn't check the um US market

but in the market meltdown that we've

just seen the mining um the mining index

our ASX 300 metals and Mining index

didn't fall as hard as the broader

Australian Market uh tell me is that

reason to be slightly optimistic for

miners or was this mostly people just

dumping speculative tech stocks I'm not

as familiar with the other components of

the Australian Market as I am the US

market I think

that the expectation of success around

the US technology Market was so

extraordinary

that there were a lot of people who

owned tech stocks without a sense of its

value they owned it for the momentum and

I think too A lot of people own tech

stocks on

margin the expectation in the North

American market for success in the

mining business was nil and so there was

no success premium built into the stocks

H and not very many people decided to

own them on margin very few people were

that

dumb so my suspicion is if there were

sectors in Australia that were as

extended as the US tech sector did that

they of course would have been hit

harder than

miners the beauty I would suggest of at

least the senior part of the Australian

Market the Australian mining Market is

that the share prices are underpinned by

free cash

flow there are circumstances where you

have a market crash or a flash crash

that's liquidity driven in that

circumstance everything

falls because the sell decision isn't

made by the investor it's made by the

margin

clerk but those companies which have an

underpinning of value generally recover

more quickly and I would suggest that

the Australian mining majors and super

Majors trading it with Enterprise Value

to ebit at five times or six times or

seven times were much less extended than

the US technology sector with Enterprise

values at 30 and 40 and 50 times ebit

and the consequence of that is not

having inflated so much they didn't

disinflate quite so badly that is an

excellent answer and I'm going to stick

on the technology aspect for just one

minute and how it relates to mining now

we're seeing the rise of artificial

intelligence being used um across the

exploration sector and in obviously when

mins are up and running through the use

of virtual reality in you know how uh

companies work with people across

different sites but just bringing it

back to exploration for the moment how

is AI going interchange exploration or

are we being a little bit ambitious with

this uh I think the answer is some of

both I don't think that there is a

substitute for boot leather and the

human eye but I think that you can

deploy both more intelligently with

technology I remember 20 years ago

seeing the application of Aster

imagery uh taking pictures of 2,000

square kilometers from space looking at

the uh spectral differenti ation and

looking for surface alteration from

space uh and using coincident anomalies

uh looking as an example at geological

structures from space that were so large

and perhaps so subtle that you couldn't

see them on earth now that didn't make a

discovery but what it did was it allowed

you to focus that boot leather those

human beings on two or three square

kilometers out of a 2,000 kilom data set

so that you could employ that boot

leather more

intelligently I've seen a couple really

pretty miraculous displays of Target

generation using AI because AI seems to

have the ability after the information

has been

digitized at synthesizing a bunch of

different type types of data overlaying

the data on each other and doing what

desk exploration explorationist do which

is coincident anomaly analysis uh

measuring structure measuring geophysics

measuring surface

mapping uh and looking to Target by

coincident anomalies then focusing

traditional

expertise with a a much better

application of talent rather as I say

than exploring 2,000 square kilometers

exploring two square kilometers using of

course traditional methodology all right

now Dominic ating the mining Market at

the moment is the annual diggers and

dealers conference here in Australia I

know you're laughing cuz you've had some

good times there I'm sure now you know

it's sort of one of the ongoing jokes in

mining markets in Australia is that you

know if you're not a diggers who are you

so unfortunately I didn't get to diggers

this year so I clearly don't count but I

know you have been I'm going to get to

one of your favorite memories of diggers

in a moment but first of all we need to

be serious um and there are three key

Commodities that are being talked about

at Diggers at the moment the first two

are copper and gold they seem to be

reoccurring themes according to our

journal on the ground there my question

to you is I've been talking about Golden

copper and the importance of it for half

a decade it feels a little old hat to me

tell me is this because I was ahead of

the curve or it's because these medals

are that important that we need to keep

having these conversations sum of both

and a third Factor diggers and dealers

if you're an exhibitor or if you're a

speaker is all about raising money and

diggers and dealers took a Holiday from

copper and gold uh and went into lithium

and rare Earths uh and a bunch of stuff

nickel there were a bunch of topics at

diggers and dealers that were easier to

raise money

around those themes have disappointed

and in some cases disappointed mightily

so the theme comes back to raising money

I mean copper and gold

uh and I think that's really what you're

seeing uh I think it's important to note

too that uh you know gold is always

going to be a good sub theme in Western

Australia when I first started attending

diggers and dealers probably coincident

with your birth Shay um they produced

about a million ounces of gold in town

in Cal

gurly uh you know it it it truly was a

gold Centric conference because the

whole

town well ran on beer sales at the

palace uh and other than that it ran on

gold um but you know I think the renewed

focus on gold and copper uh has to do

with the fact that in the Australian

Market you can still raise money around

gold and copper and there is at least

more hope among the

punters around gold and copper than

there is as an example around uh nickel

or

pgms uh or heaven forbid

lithium whatever I suspect gives people

the least discomfort or in a better

Market the most comfort will be uh what

is talked about at diggers I I happen to

believe that uh diggers is probably more

rational this year talking about gold

where I think there's a good outlook

talking about copper where I think

there's a great Outlook and the market

is soft uh a wonderful circumstance and

of course uh talking about uranium uh

which I think has structural attractions

that no other commodity has I am so glad

you closed on uranium because that's

exactly where we're going next and I

don't have to do some hard segue into it

uh so our opposition leader in

government flew in to diggers and

dealers uh yesterday to talk about

uranium and nuclear energy within wa now

obviously he's preaching to the choire

here um and there is definitely a

political angle but we've touched on

this before about embracing uranium is

that really the best way to do it to win

over a mining crowd that's already most

likely pronuclear energy I don't think

he was trying to over the crowd I think

he was sucking for campaign

contribution

um you know if they were trying to win

over the proud they would have had

skimpies cheering uranium uranium

uranium um I I I you know I remember a

provincial politician in British

Columbia coming and delivering a red you

know a red meat speech to a mining crowd

and he wasn't trying to convince anybody

you know there was a campaign coming up

and he was trying to fill the till uh he

was in fact an unpaid exhibitor if you

think about it

um Australian uranium policy has always

amused

me

um the three Minds policy as an

example why three just out of

curiosity

um your country has an incredible

endowment around

uranium and

the traditional

labor

party should I think be

attracted to high-paying High skills

jobs they should be attracted to the

export of intellectual capital from

Australia rather than making high

earners leave Australia and pay tax

somewhere else the unconventional left

might be uh attracted to the idea that

you could lower utility bills for poor

people in other places that seems

charitable to me and they might be

attracted too to the carbon- free nature

of Base load power from

uranium the idea that they can conjure

up some opposition to it is astonishing

now they say of course that there are

dangers to

uranium not understanding that the fly

ash piles from burning coal generate

more background radiation than every

nuclear power plant in the United States

uh we say in the United States more

people died in Ted Kennedy's car than

have died in nuclear power plants in the

United States when we're dealing with

our left um so it it it really does

mystify me the the joking aside the

anti- uranium

narrative we's

thin I understand that there are

consequen quences to pay when mistakes

were made but if we were trying to avoid

mistakes we wouldn't allow people to

drive we wouldn't allow them to

fly we wouldn't allow them to vote

because they cause

Wars so where does it stop you know

um I guess I I I guess that's my whole

point it's difficult for me to

understand the anti-power generation

stance exhibited by some parts of the

Australian political

Spectrum it's difficult for me to

understand the anti-product

uh I I can understand perfectly the

local opposition to

jabala uh because all the rents went to

the

center cber got all the money and the

aboriginals got the

shaft um nothing particular unusual

about that in politics so the local

opposition probably can be dealt with

with a more Equitable sharing of the

social benefit of the social rent should

camber really be concerned about the

Aboriginal rights they should loosen up

the purse strings with regards to the

money they extort from Mining and leave

more of it in local hands that doesn't

seem to occur to politicians on either

the right or the left uh listen Rick

your knowledge of Australian geology

minds and government uh surpasses almost

any International person I have ever

spoken to so I want to really localize

that knowledge with this next question

and take it right back to diggers and

dealers by the way thank you for shaving

a decade off my age before when you said

it probably started around the year I

was born I'll take that compliment um

all right I know you've talked about uh

your experience with P um palladian uh

just recently in a interview we did and

how you met John borof and that was how

you became an investor in that company

what I want to know now is with the

diggers and dealers and probably a few

sore heads this morning what is your

favorite publishable memory of diggers

and dealers uh I guess my favorite

conference memory in Australia isn't

diggers uh it was appearing at a

conference hosted by our mutual friend

Carrie

Stevenson when she arranged for me to be

interviewed uh by the

ABC Uh I had not one but two bottles of

beer somehow and the cameraman said

that's okay put them in your pocket

we'll do a head shot and then proceeded

to interview me with both bottles of

beer very obvious for a national

Australian audience um miraculously that

did a lot for my reputation in Australia

he unknowingly did me a lot of favors

among Australians for Fairly obvious

reasons the thing that really astonished

me about diggers and dealers and it's

the it's the memory that I will always

take from it is despite the

romp uh you know the only conference in

the world where they begin serving

alcohol in booths to attract to

attendees after lunch I've never seen

anything like that in my life the

combination of

frivolity and absolutely

incredible uh technological knowledge

has been always astonishing to me I

watch people show up in the morning that

should be in

hospital and actually impart truly truly

spectacular knowledge the when you look

at the and I haven't been for a couple

of years but when you look at the Antics

that go on at night and then you look at

what gets accomplished during the day it

is truly an astonishing circumstance

now as a 71y old male uh are there Parts

about the historical political and

social incorrectness of diggers and

dealers that I

miss uh absolutely you know

absolutely uh I I won't go into all of

them but uh it was a hilarious time it

was good for me to have been there 35

years ago as opposed to now probably for

those reasons but the truth is also that

there has been a uniformly high level of

technical competence at that conference

not usually on display after 6

PM

uh but it's uh you know it has really

really really been of High Caliber I

also need to say in the early days days

I may have been the only yank that

went uh and there were two things there

one I made a lot of money at diggers and

dealers I mean I made a lot of money at

diggers and

dealers uh and when I started going in

the early part of the decade of the 90s

and the last part of the the latter part

of the decade of the

80s there was no money at all in

Australian markets none and the fact

that there was a fresh check writer

better yet An American unschooled in

Australian ways

uh well I knew how a very pretty girl in

a very tight skirt felt walking down the

aisles um I had no trouble talking to

anybody I had trouble shrugging people

and the consequence of the fact that

stuff was so cheap and nobody cared uh

and I did care uh and I represented a

reasonable sum of money meant that

diggers was truly spectacularly

profitable for me in those days one day

we'll see if we can coax you back to

diggers um and I have heard some of the

Glory Days and the War Stories of the

activities after 6 PM it's apparently

not as wild as it used to be when you

were first there um now as you pointed

out at diggers and dealers it's very

much about attracting uh money I get

approached quite a bit about how uh

private placements work when it comes to

mining companies because there's a lot

of high net worth investors that very

much want to get a set at this table now

um this might sound like a bit of a

commercial but I know that there's a lot

of people interested

I know you've got sort of a boot camp

coming up can you talk me through what

to expect and then I'm going to send a

link to my M well thank you for the

opportunity uh as you know Shay once

every three months we work up the energy

to do an eight hour long deep dive on

one subject or another around natural

resource

investing we've done uranium we've done

silver we've done Prospect generators

and exploration we've done royalty and

streaming now we're doing boot well now

we're doing a boot camp around private

placements uh private placement

investing has been very very very good

to me Shay over 50 years I've learned a

lot about

it uh this product this boot camp will

be eight hours long and I need to tell

people ahead of time uh that this is not

an entertainment product uh we're going

to work you very very hard for eight

hours there are going to be parts of it

that are technical there going to be

parts of it that are boring but you're

going to learn a lot uh the the

recordings of the boot camp will be

available for a year and I would suggest

that to be successful you'll have to

play all or part of part of them three

or four times because the amount of

information that we give you in eight

hours is more than you're going to be

able to absorb in eight

hours we are going to talk practically

about private placements we're going to

talk about what to look out for what to

look for how to structure them when to

say no how to say yes we're going to

talk about private company private

placements inv investing in private

companies that never go public we're

going to talk about

pre-public private placements we're

going to talk about the fact that IPO is

usually an acronym for it's probably

overpriced we are going to talk about uh

public investment or private investment

in public offerings which is to say

pipes we're going to talk a lot about

debt private placements and a lot about

convertible preferreds they're less

wellknown and I suspect more attractive

on a risk to reward basis we're going to

talk about timing and private placements

we're going to talk about warrants yes

we're going to talk extensively about

Australian private placements Gold Card

Investments which are investments for

non Australian participants in

Australian private placements but we're

also going to talk about aim private

placements American private placements

and Canadian private placements we will

cover the Waterfront I would suggest

with Mining and oil and gas Investments

privately so you took away my next

question which was yeah but are we is

there really any benefit for Australian

investors this is great so this sounds

like it's got a real Global uh Focus to

it now for everybody listening I will

share the link with you I'll pop the

link in the description of today's video

uh Rick before we close out today any

final mining Market thoughts that you

might want to share well one that we've

talked about before Shay which is to say

uh a different way of describing a bare

Market as a

sale people seem to be intelligent when

they buy physically Goods when somebody

goes to the store and tuna fish are on

sale they substitute tuna fish for

canned salmon or for chicken when they

go to buy a winter coat they're

delighted to see the the coat mark down

50% for some reason people want to pay

up for financial

assets uh I can understand why a 50% off

sale on a stock that you own is

problematic but the truth is you have a

choice between being a contrarian or

being a victim if you liked it for a

dollar you better love it at 50 cents or

you better know you made a big mistake

at a

buck um I I I can't say this often

enough uh the money that's made in

Investments is made on the Delta between

price and value and if you haven't done

the work to understand the value the

price information is no of no use to you

Buffett says

famously you shouldn't buy a share if

you wouldn't be delighted to see it fall

30% in price in the next month so you

could buy more cheaply now Shay sedle

I've tested that thesis dozens of times

in my career but it turns out in fact to

be true uh if you've already done the

work to establish the value and the

price gets cheaper that's a good thing

not a bad thing so I would encourage

people to look at volatility as frequent

sales and I would encourage people to

look at catastrophic declines not the

kind that we've just seen I mean

catastrophic declines 2008 style

declines as once in a decade sales keep

some powder

dry work on your

knowledge and have the guts to pull the

trigger when everybody else is running

for the exits

similarly if you've been lucky enough to

buy uranium stocks in 2022 when nobody

owned them and they're up 500% and

everybody's complimenting you for as

being a genius don't be too greedy not

to sell you haven't made the money if

you haven't taken the money when the

world is on the cell side be on the buy

side when the world is on the buy side

be on the cell side sounds simple tough

to do take it from me if you

occasionally get it right it

works uh Rick this has been a fantastic

conversation today I have to say I've

thoroughly enjoyed it uh listen thank

you so much for being here I know it's

your afternoon and the sun's still out

so I'm going to let you get back to it

thanks again I will do it before I do it

I would invite your listeners to go to

rule investment media.com

and list your natural resource stocks uh

I will for no obligation and no charge

rank them one to 10 one being best 10

being worst I'll comment on individual

issues if I think my comments have some

value if you've enjoyed my macro

thinking maybe you'll enjoy my micro

thinking confined to your own stocks uh

I will also pop a link to that in the

description of today's video I will just

let everybody know I personally have run

this Gauntlet and if you mentioned some

explorers Rick hasn't heard of I suggest

you you the Explorers you've got in your

portfolio uh Rick thank you so much for

being here this is great I look forward

to next time always a pleasure and thank

thank you for your support of our

conference this year it was great having

you there and seeing you there and thank

you for the gauntlet you ran getting

there and

home it was a bit intense