What Is the Christian Story Really? | Jonathan Pageau
Summary
TLDRThe video discusses the enduring influence of the Christian narrative, despite its diminishing visibility in public life. It explores how Christianity shapes ethics, morality, and the concept of personhood. The speaker explains the Christian story as God's love calling humanity to participate in the divine, emphasizing the transformative experience of theosis—where individuals become united with God. This process is seen as a profound personal transformation beyond ethical behavior, leading to a deepened existence and consciousness in God.
Takeaways
- 🙏 The Christian story is viewed as inevitable and foundational to our ethics, morality, and understanding of human personhood.
- 📚 Tom Holland and others recognize the narrative power of Christianity as it fades from the public sphere.
- 🔄 The Christian story involves a call to participate in the divine and to become more like Christ.
- ❤️ The love of God is seen as the force that holds the world together, with the incarnation showing how humans can partake in the life of God.
- 👑 Christians are called to reign with Christ, acting as principalities in the world and transforming it through love and holiness.
- 🌟 The lives of saints demonstrate this transformation, influencing those around them through their prayer and love.
- ⚖️ Theosis is a key doctrine in Orthodoxy, emphasizing the union of humans with God and their participation in His life.
- 🕊️ Theosis is seen as a real transformation into godliness, not just a metaphor or ethical change.
- 💡 Moments of light or spiritual clarity can offer glimpses of theosis, often experienced in prayer, liturgy, or profound personal relationships.
- 🤲 The process of theosis involves a transformation that leads to freedom from passions and a deeper understanding of one's true self in unity with God.
Q & A
What does the speaker mean by 'the Christian story is inevitable'?
-The speaker believes that the principles and narrative of Christianity are foundational to our understanding of morality, ethics, and human identity. As Christianity fades from the public sphere, its influence becomes more apparent and inevitable in shaping these aspects of society.
How does Tom Holland view the impact of Christianity on society?
-Tom Holland notes that as Christianity is removed from the public sphere, its deep influence on our ethics, morality, and perception of humanity becomes clearer. He sees Christianity's narrative as integral to the foundation of these concepts.
What did G.K. Chesterton mean by 'the church has died many times but we follow one who knows the way out of the grave'?
-G.K. Chesterton's quote suggests that the church has faced numerous challenges and declines throughout history, but it endures and revives because it follows Christ, who overcame death and provides a path to resurrection and renewal.
What is the core message of the Christian story according to the speaker?
-The core message of the Christian story is that God loves humanity and invites us to participate in divine life. This participation is shown through the incarnation of Christ and calls believers to reign with Christ, transform reality through love, and become holy individuals who influence the world positively.
What does the speaker describe as theosis in Orthodox theology?
-Theosis in Orthodox theology is the belief that God created the world so that creatures could be united with Him in love and participate in His life. This union with God, disrupted by the fall, is ultimately resolved through Christ, leading to the transformation of individuals into divine beings through participation in God's life.
How does the speaker describe moments of experiencing theosis?
-The speaker describes moments of theosis as brief glimpses of light and unity, often experienced during prayer, liturgy, or profound personal connections. These moments feel like time and space vanish, providing a sense of divine presence, although they are fleeting and not permanent for most people.
How does Orthodox theology view the transformation of a person in relation to God?
-Orthodox theology views the transformation of a person as a real, lived experience. It is not merely a forensic declaration or ethical change but an actual transformation of the person's consciousness and being, making them free, full, and united with God.
How does the speaker relate personal experiences with children to theosis?
-The speaker relates personal experiences with children to theosis by describing moments of profound connection and love that seem to transcend time and space. These moments provide a glimpse of divine unity and the transformation that theosis aims to achieve.
What role does adoption play in Protestant theology in comparison to theosis?
-In Protestant theology, adoption into God's family through the Spirit of the Son allows believers to participate in the love of the Father and the divine nature. While similar to theosis, it is often seen more as a forensic declaration and ethical change rather than a complete transformation of the person.
What is the significance of the transformation into God according to Orthodox theology?
-The transformation into God in Orthodox theology signifies an actual change in the person's nature, making them divine through participation in God's life. This transformation leads to a higher state of existence, where the person becomes light, free from passions, and fully united with God's will and essence.
Outlines
🌟 The Inevitability of the Christian Story
The speaker expresses a lack of hope for the short term but believes the Christian story is inevitable. As Christianity fades from the public sphere, its foundational role in shaping ethics, morality, and the concept of humanity becomes more apparent. The discussion references Tom Holland, who observes the enduring narrative power of Christianity despite its decline in public life. The speaker quotes G.K. Chesterton, noting that the church has faced decline many times but follows a path of resurrection. The Christian story is explained as a call to participate in the divine, centered on God's love, which holds the world together. This participation is exemplified through the lives of saints and holy individuals who influence others through their devotion and prayer.
💫 Understanding Theosis and Transformation in Christianity
The discussion moves to the concept of theosis, a significant doctrine in Orthodox Christianity. Theosis is described as the ultimate purpose of creation, where God's creatures are united with Him in love, participating in His life. This notion faced a setback with the fall of humanity but was resolved through the incarnation of Christ. Theosis involves a transformation of the individual, becoming more aligned with God's will and presence. The speaker relates personal moments of divine connection, often fleeting but profound, experienced during prayer, liturgy, or personal relationships. The conversation touches on the Protestant perspective of adoption, where unity with Christ and participation in divine love are emphasized. However, the speaker highlights the experiential and transformative nature of theosis in Orthodox theology, emphasizing a change in consciousness and being, rather than just ethical or forensic declarations.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Christian Story
💡Incarnation
💡Theosis
💡Divine Participation
💡Ethics and Morality
💡Saints
💡Freedom from Passions
💡Transformation
💡Orthodox Theology
💡Trinitarian Dynamic
Highlights
Christian story is inevitable and deeply embedded in our ethics and morality.
Christianity's influence is seen as it wanes from the public sphere.
The church has died many times but follows one who knows the way out of the grave.
Christian story involves participating in the divine and being loved by God.
The incarnation shows us how to participate in the life of God.
We are called to reign with Christ and transform reality through love of God and others.
Holy people can influence and transform reality around them.
Theosis is the notion that God created the world so we could be united with Him in love.
The fall caused a big U-turn, but it was resolved in the person of Christ.
Theosis involves becoming like princes in God and participating in how the world exists.
Transformation through theosis leads to freedom from passions and idiosyncrasies.
Experiencing theosis can feel like moments of light where space and time vanish.
Orthodox saints experience joyful sadness, perpetual joy, and infinite compassion.
Protestant theology's concept of adoption shares similarities with theosis.
Theosis is an experienced transformation, not just a forensic declaration or ethical change.
Transcripts
i don't have a lot of hope on the short
term but definitely i do believe that
in the end the christian story is
inevitable it's
and it's and as the christian story
disappears from the public view
it appears even more as inevitable
people people like
like for example something like tom
holland who as christianity is being
evacuated from the public sphere
is noticing to what extent it holds
in terms of narrative and how our ethics
our morality
the way we even perceive what a human
person is is all based in christian
christian vision and and i think that's
going to become clear as
christianity starts to to wane let's say
right right as gk chesterton said you
know
the church has died many times but we we
follow one who knows the way out of the
grave
um right exactly that's wonderful yeah
so
you've mentioned the christian story um
go on give me give me the question what
is that what is the christian story
obviously obviously um you've got you've
got 90 seconds go
well i mean the christian story is that
we are
called like we were called to
participate in
the divine that we have that god
loves us and and if atheists watching
they won't know what i'm talking about
but
that that the love of god is that which
holds the world together
and the incarnation has shown us how and
through what we can participate in the
life of god
and so i think that that's that's the
christian story and we are called
to be to reign with christ you know and
to to
to be like angels to be to be
principalities in the world and that's
what that's what we see already
happening
with the lives of the saints that's what
we see when you meet a holy person and
they're like a
like an axis you know and you can see
everybody kind of around them
being influenced by just their prayer
life you know you ever
every i hope everybody has at least one
person like that where you can see
someone transform reality around them
through
their love of god and their love of
others and i think that that's it like
that's the christian story and that's
what we're called to
to be and to see the kingdom appear in
the world
um you've mentioned participating in god
um
we had another question on twitter
somebody wants to know what is
theosis so it's a a big doctrine in
orthodoxy
theosis give us give us a definition and
also
um what would it or what does it
feel like what does it feel like
yeah what is it what is it to experience
theosis
yeah well i don't first define it i i
don't think that i've
i've i've had i mean i think everybody
has glimpses or everybody has little
moments
i don't think that i don't know i don't
think i've known anybody who had been
glorified or had been looming let's say
uh but i mean the theosis is the notion
that the reason why god created
everything is so that we could
be united to him and that's actually why
god created the world god created the
world so that
his creatures could be united to him in
love and could participate
in his life and that got a big u-turn in
the story of the fall
but it was ultimately resolved even in a
way that is
that is maybe even beyond what could
have been in the person of christ
as the god-man and
that's where that's what we're called to
be and so we we are called to be
like princes in god and to
and like i said to become like axes or
seeds that
makes the world exist like we actually
participate in how the world exists when
as we come closer to god um and then
ultimately that also means a kind of
freedom in terms of
from your passions from your from your
idiosyncrasies
and discovering of who you are
completely as you are united
to god like so you become you know what
god wanted you to be
was to be one of you know like a and
and if you read the fathers like if you
read say maximus if we read uh
some of the hesicastic fathers that's
real like it's not just a metaphor
it's not just it really is a
transformation of the person
into into god like the person becomes
god through participation in his life um
and i think what it feels like i mean i
think it i
i often say uh
it's like you sometimes you you have
moments like little moments of
of light i mean i don't i don't can't
speak for other people but there are
these
moments sometimes where things come
together
and it can happen in terms of of prayer
sometimes or in during liturgy or
sometimes when you're with someone like
let's say with your spouse or with your
child
and all of a sudden you have this moment
where it's like this
i don't know how to say that space and
time seem to vanish into this like
moment of light
and usually you can't hold on to it it
kind of
it just kind of goes away it kind of you
get a glimmer and then it goes away and
and i think that the saint or the person
who is truly
living in god has more access to that
and can hold on to it and can and can
live in that light and it
creates you know the
the the orthodox saints they have this
uh this kind of tear this joyful sadness
where
they are kind of they're just transmuted
and they they
they both are in perpetual joy while
experiencing infinite compassion for
those around
them and so it's like i don't know how i
don't know what that feels like
i know the little moment when i'm with
my child and i can kind of get that
that that little glimpse of it so yeah
yeah
and as you mentioned you're with your
child
i wonder whether um in protestant
theology kind of adoption
does a lot of the work that theosis
might do in
um orthodox theology in in that
you know by the spirit of the son
i am united to christ sharing in the
love of the father
um and yeah and and in that trinitarian
dynamic a lot of protestants get you
know very twitchy when you say you know
when athanasius says man became god god
became man that man might become god
um forgetting the rich trinitarian
theology that's
that's behind that um that it is
god the son taking our humanity that we
in him
and by his spirit of course we
participate in the divine nature
that's what scripture says and i think
that that's i think that that's true i
think maybe the difference is that
is that it in in in kind of hesychastic
uh
theology or in orthodoxyology that is
meant to be
lived like it's experienced it's not
just like a forensic declaration
yeah or or an ethical change it's a it's
a transformation of the person
like you are you become and so you you
so
so all of that what you said is true
it's through christ and it's in our
unite our unity in christ that we
have access to that but it's an actual
transformation of the person
like it's not just something that you
say it's like
it makes you free it makes you uh
it makes you full like it makes you
light it makes you
it's not just uh like i said does it
just make you stop
like like stop lying it's more than that
there's like a
transformation of consciousness of being
of everything into
into god
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