How AI defeats humans on the battlefield | BBC News

Summary

AI Decoded explores the controversial use of artificial intelligence in military training and warfare. The program discusses the potential of AI to transform combat, with BAE Systems leading efforts to create AI-powered learning systems for military trainees. Ethical concerns about unmanned military drones and the implications of AI in escalating conflicts are highlighted, featuring insights from experts and a deep dive into the technology's impact on the battlefield.

Takeaways

• 🤖 AI is increasingly being integrated into military training and combat tools, raising ethical and operational concerns.
• 🚀 The Guardian refers to this as the 'AI Oppenheimer moment', highlighting the growing interest in AI-powered combat systems.
• 💰 There is a significant influx of funding towards companies and agencies promising smarter, cheaper, and faster warfare through AI.
• 🇬🇧 UK-based BAE Systems is leading efforts to develop an AI-powered learning system for military trainees, aiming to make them mission-ready sooner.
• 🎓 AI is being used to enhance flight simulators and other training tools, providing realistic scenarios and improving pilot skills.
• 🤔 Ethical considerations include the potential for AI to escalate warfare more quickly and the need for human oversight in decision-making.
• 🛠 AI's role in training is not limited to aircraft; it is also used to simulate various battlefield scenarios and civilian activities.
• 🔍 AI can analyze trainee performance data, identify areas of struggle, and refine training materials accordingly.
• 💡 The development of AI-powered adversaries in training scenarios is challenging even experienced pilots, showcasing the potential of AI in combat.
• 🌐 The debate around AI in warfare extends to international discussions, with organizations like 'Stop Killer Robots' advocating for a ban on lethal autonomous weapons.
• 🔎 Transparency and accountability in AI use in warfare are critical, especially considering the classified nature of much military intelligence.

Q & A

What is the term 'AI Oppenheimer moment' referring to in the context of the script?

The 'AI Oppenheimer moment' refers to the increasing interest in combat tools that combine human and machine intelligence, leading to significant financial investment in companies and government agencies that claim to make warfare smarter, cheaper, and faster.

What is BAE Systems' goal in relation to AI in the military sector?

BAE Systems aims to be the first in their industry to create an AI-powered Learning System designed to make military trainees mission-ready more quickly.

What ethical considerations are raised by the use of AI in military applications?

Ethical considerations include the potential for AI to escalate warfare more quickly, the possibility of AI making life-and-death decisions without human intervention, and the implications of AI systems engaging in combat without human pilots.

How does AI enhance flight simulators for pilot training?

AI can record and analyze trainee performance in flight simulators, providing metrics to measure and score each performance. It can also identify areas where trainees struggle, allowing for more targeted and effective training.

What is the concept of 'human in the loop' in military applications?

'Human in the loop' is a process where a human being is involved in the command and control of military systems, such as drones, ensuring that there is always human judgment at the heart of selecting the course of action.

How does AI contribute to the realism of simulated battlefield environments?

AI allows simulated environments to behave more realistically, even replicating civilian activity. It can create complex scenarios for training purposes, making the training experience more challenging and closer to real-life conditions.

What is the role of AI in aerial combat training against AI-powered adversaries?

AI in aerial combat training serves as an adaptive opponent that learns and reacts to the trainee's actions, providing a challenging and unpredictable training environment that can help refine pilot skills.

What is the Tempest project and how does it relate to AI in military applications?

The Tempest is a joint collaboration between the UK, Italy, and Japan to develop a sixth-generation stealth combat jet. It will feature advanced radar and weapon systems and the ability to command a mini-squadron of drones, acting as a flying command and control center.

What is the concern regarding the speed of AI decision-making in warfare?

The concern is that the speed of AI decision-making could lead to faster escalation of conflicts, as AI systems may initiate actions or escalate situations without human oversight or control.

How does the use of AI in warfare affect the potential for civilian harm?

While AI can improve precision in targeting, the increased speed and reduced cost of engaging targets could potentially lead to more strikes and, consequently, a larger impact on civilian populations, even if individual strikes are more precise.

What is the role of the Campaign to Stop Killer Robots, and what is their stance on AI in the military?

The Campaign to Stop Killer Robots is a coalition of NGOs that seeks to preemptively ban lethal autonomous weapons. They advocate for human control over life-and-death decisions in warfare and are concerned about the potential for AI to escalate conflicts and cause harm to civilians.

Outlines

00:00

🤖 AI in Warfare: Ethical and Practical Considerations

The script opens with a discussion on the integration of artificial intelligence (AI) in military applications, drawing parallels to the historical figure J. Robert Oppenheimer. It highlights the interest in AI-powered tools that could potentially make warfare more efficient but raises ethical concerns about the use of unmanned military drones. The segment introduces Priya Lakhani, CEO of Century Tech, who emphasizes the importance of addressing ethical issues related to AI in warfare. The script also mentions a report by Mark Chesak on military training and the application of AI by BAE Systems to enhance military readiness.

05:00

🎮 AI-Enhanced Military Training and Simulation

This paragraph delves into the use of AI in military training, specifically in flight simulators. It explains how AI can analyze trainee performance data to identify areas for improvement in training programs. The script also touches on the simulation of various battlefield elements using technology derived from video games, which AI can make more realistic. The narrative includes the perspective of a former RAF pilot, Jim Whitworth, on the realism of simulators and the potential for AI to create complex training scenarios, including aerial combat against AI-powered adversaries.

10:03

🛫 The Future of AI in Aerial Combat and Autonomous Systems

The script discusses the development of AI in aerial combat training, where AI adversaries challenge even seasoned pilots with unfamiliar tactics. It also introduces the concept of the 'AI-aided tactics engine' developed by Cranfield University, which is designed to simulate realistic combat scenarios. The segment raises questions about the implications of AI learning from human pilots and potentially being used to control drones in real-world situations, underscoring the moral and ethical risks associated with autonomous weapons.

15:05

🚀 AI and the Evolution of Military Technology

This paragraph explores the future of military technology, focusing on the Tempest project, a collaborative effort between the UK, Italy, and Japan to develop a sixth-generation stealth combat jet. The Tempest is envisioned to have advanced systems, including the ability to command a squadron of drones from a distance, prompting a discussion on the role of humans in the decision-making process regarding warfare and the potential for AI to escalate conflicts more rapidly.

20:07

🛡️ The Debate on AI in Warfare: Human Control and Ethical Implications

The final paragraph of the script presents a discussion on the role of AI in modern warfare, featuring insights from Mikey Kay, a former senior RAF officer, and Dr. Peter Asaro from the Campaign to Stop Killer Robots. The conversation covers the use of AI in precision targeting and the potential for AI to increase the speed and volume of attacks, which could inadvertently lead to more civilian casualties. It also addresses the need for human oversight in the use of lethal autonomous weapons and the challenges of regulating AI in military applications.

Keywords

💡Artificial Intelligence (AI)

Artificial Intelligence refers to the simulation of human intelligence in machines that are programmed to think like humans and mimic their actions. In the video, AI is central to the theme as it is being discussed in the context of military applications, such as training pilots and potentially controlling unmanned military drones, which raises ethical considerations.

💡AI Oppenheimer moment

The term 'AI Oppenheimer moment' is a metaphorical reference to the time when scientists realized the potential destructive power of their creation, alluding to the ethical and existential questions posed by the integration of AI in warfare. It is used in the script to highlight the growing interest in and concerns about combat tools that blend human and machine intelligence.

💡Combat tools

Combat tools in the script refer to military equipment and technologies that are being enhanced by AI to improve their efficiency and effectiveness in battle. The influx of money to companies and government agencies developing these tools signifies the trend towards making warfare smarter, cheaper, and faster through AI integration.

💡BAE Systems

BAE Systems is a leading military contractor mentioned in the script that is working on creating an AI-powered Learning System. This company is significant in the narrative as it represents the industry's push towards utilizing AI to make military trainees mission-ready sooner, which is a key example of AI's application in military training.

💡Unmanned military drones

Unmanned military drones are aircraft operated remotely or autonomously without a pilot on board. The script discusses the potential of AI to control these drones, which raises questions about the speed at which warfare could escalate and the ethical implications of decisions being made by AI systems.

💡Ethical considerations

Ethical considerations encompass the moral principles and values that guide decisions and actions, especially in the context of AI's role in warfare. The script highlights the controversy surrounding AI in the battlefield, including the potential for AI to escalate conflicts and the need for human oversight to ensure ethical conduct.

💡Human in the loop

The 'human in the loop' concept refers to the involvement of a human operator in the command and control process of military systems, ensuring that there is human judgment at the heart of decision-making. The script discusses the critical nature of this process from a moral and ethical standpoint, particularly in the context of AI-enhanced training and combat systems.

💡Flight simulators

Flight simulators are training devices that replicate the experience of flying an aircraft. In the script, they are highlighted as integral to a pilot's training, allowing them to gain skills in a safe and cost-effective manner. The integration of AI in these simulators enables the recording and analysis of trainee performance, which can be used to refine training programs.

💡AI-aided tactics engine

The AI-aided tactics engine is a system developed by Crownfield University, as mentioned in the script, which challenges experienced pilots in virtual aerial combat scenarios. This engine represents the advanced use of AI to create realistic and adaptive training environments that can improve pilot skills and readiness for real-world situations.

💡Precision-guided munition

Precision-guided munition refers to a type of weapon system that can maneuver to hit a specific target accurately. In the script, it is discussed as an area where AI is particularly useful, assisting with the identification and selection of potential threats, as well as assessing collateral damage and weapon selection for minimizing harm to civilians and infrastructure.

💡Collateral damage estimate

The collateral damage estimate is an assessment of the potential harm to civilians and infrastructure that might result from a military action. The script mentions how AI can speed up this assessment process, which is critical for making rapid and informed decisions that minimize unintended harm during military operations.

💡Pattern of life

Pattern of life analysis involves the use of surveillance to understand the routine activities and behaviors of people in a given area. In the script, it is mentioned in the context of using drones to observe and assess the environment surrounding a target, which helps in making more informed decisions about weapon selection and the timing of an attack to minimize collateral damage.

💡Rules of engagement

Rules of engagement are the directives that govern when, where, and how military force can be used. The script discusses how these rules are integral to the decision-making process in AI-assisted military operations, ensuring that actions taken are in accordance with legal and ethical standards.

💡Lethal autonomous weapons

Lethal autonomous weapons are systems that can independently select and engage targets without human intervention. The script references the Campaign to Stop Killer Robots, which seeks to preemptively ban such weapons, highlighting the significant moral and ethical risks associated with their use in warfare.

💡Flash crashes

A flash crash refers to a sudden, dramatic drop in the value of a financial market or a particular stock. The script uses this term as an analogy to describe the potential for AI systems in warfare to escalate conflicts quickly if strategic decisions become automated, leading to unintended and potentially catastrophic outcomes.

Highlights

The Guardian dubs the increasing use of AI in combat tools as the 'AI Oppenheimer moment', highlighting the potential for AI to transform warfare.

BAE Systems is developing an AI-powered learning system to expedite military trainee readiness.

AI's role in military training raises ethical concerns, particularly around the potential for unmanned military drones.

The Farnborough Air Show has showcased an increase in unmanned aerial vehicles with military applications.

Human involvement in command and control of military drones is critical for ethical considerations.

AI is being used in flight simulators to train pilots, saving time and money while providing realistic training scenarios.

AI can analyze trainee performance in simulators, identifying areas where training can be improved.

Simulation technology, powered by AI, can replicate complex battlefield environments and civilian activity.

AI-powered adversaries in training simulations challenge experienced pilots, simulating real-world combat scenarios.

AI engines in training are learning and adapting to pilot reactions, providing a dynamic training environment.

The ethical implications of AI in warfare include the risk of escalating conflicts due to automated decision-making.

The Tempest project, a collaboration between the UK, Italy, and Japan, aims to develop a sixth-generation stealth combat jet with AI capabilities.

The debate on AI in warfare includes discussions on the necessity of human involvement in decision-making processes.

AI technology is being used in the battlefield for precision-guided munition processes, assessing potential threats and collateral damage.

The use of AI in warfare could potentially increase the speed and accuracy of military operations, but also raises concerns about civilian harm.

Dr. Peter Asaro from the Campaign to Stop Killer Robots emphasizes the need for human control in lethal autonomous weapons systems.

The potential for AI to escalate conflicts due to increased speed and automation in decision-making is a significant concern.

AI's role in warfare is not limited to training; it is also being integrated into operational capabilities, such as precision targeting and battle damage assessment.

The Campaign to Stop Killer Robots is working towards a treaty to regulate the use of AI in lethal autonomous weapons systems.

Transcripts

it is time now for our new weekly

segment Aid

[Music]

decoded welcome to AI decoded it is that

time of the week when we look in depth

at some of the most eye-catching stories

in the world of artificial intelligence

now last week we looked at how

artificial intelligence could threaten

human jobs in the future but what about

those on the battlefield well the

guardian is calling it AI Oppenheimer

moment due to the increasing appetite

for combat tools that blend human and

machine intelligence this has led to an

influx of money to companies and

government agencies that promise they

can make Warfare smarter cheaper and

faster and here in the UK leading

military contractor BAE systems are

ramping up efforts to become the first

in their industry to create an AI

powerered Learning System meant to make

military trainees Mission ready sooner

now our BBC AI correspondent Mark chesak

went to meet all those involved we will

be showing you his piece in just a

moment but with me I'm very pleased to

say is our regular AI contributor and

presenter Priya laani who's CEO of AI

powered education company Century Tech

now Priya this is a fascinating area but

perhaps one of the most controversial

and people have huge concerns about it

yeah that's absolutely right because

this is using AI to potentially have

unmanned military drones what you're

going to see in Mark's incredible piece

is unmanned military Warcraft

potentially and then there's you know

all these questions about well hang on

you know obviously it's great if there

aren't humans being harmed out there on

the field but does that mean that

actually War could escalate much quicker

a decisions then going to be made by

these AI systems if both parties have ai

system systems what happens then it's

sort of a race as to who can escalate

further and so there's all sorts of

ethical considerations but you're also

going to see learning systems and how

BAE systems are approaching using AI to

improve learning in terms of training uh

the military and soldiers so it's a

fascinating area and then we'll do a bit

of a deep dive into the ethics a little

bit later in the program lots to talk

about Priya so let's take a look uh as

we just talking about uh this uh report

by Mark chesak and then stay with us cuz

we've got lots to discuss afterwards

up down flying or hovering around for 75

years the farra air show has showed off

aircraft both civilian and

Military often inviting Pilots to put

their airplanes through their Paces to

the Delight of the assembled

attendees including plane Buffs even new

prime ministers

in recent years fber has played host to

a lot more of these unmanned air

vehicles or drones as they're commonly

known drones with military application

with fixed wings that behave like an

airplane or rotors capable of hovering

like a helicopter are in abundance but

all have something in common a human

being involved in the command and

control of these aircraft at some stage

it's a process that's called human in

the loop it's it's critical from a a

moral and ethical point of view to

ensure that there is a human judgment

that is always at the heart of selection

of the course of

action military application of AI is

extremely controversial images of Killer

Robots and the idea of AI run a mck are

frequent additions to stories in the

Press about the risks the technology

poses nevertheless militaries around the

world are already using artificial

intelligence one area where it's

particularly useful is training Pilots

to fly

aircraft like

these flight simulators are an integral

part of a pilot's training they save

time and money allowing prospective

Pilots to gain valuable skills from the

comfort and safety of terra firma

formerly with the RAF Jim Whitworth is a

pilot instructor experienced in flying

military jets like the hawk and tornado

soon as you see that I want you to just

pull the stick back set an attitude as

we discussed this simulator rig is for a

hawk jet the Royal Air Force's preferred

trainer what sort of feedback have you

given to the team developing this um in

terms of its realism uh so really it's

about the feedback from the controls I

would like it to feel as much like a

hawk as possible where does the AI come

into the mix we can record everything a

traine does in this environment in this

simulator we can give some metrics with

which to measure the performance and

then score each performance and then as

we start to build up data on each

trainee artificial intelligence can then

start to analyze that data for us and

show us where our pinch points in the

syllabus are and by that I mean where

each traine is struggling where perhaps

we might want to refine a piece of

training either coare material all

technique from the instructor to try and

make that training as successful as

possible greatest advantage of learning

to fly like this is that when I need to

get back down on the

ground I can hit a few Keys take the

headset off and I'm good to

go synthetic training isn't exclusive to

aircraft nearly every element of the

battlefield and its surrounding

environment can be simulated the

software powering these tools has

evolved from the same Tech as video

games the addition of AI allows the

environments to behave in a much more

realistic way even replicating civilian

activity how does AI help in

simulation it's really difficult to

replicate real life scenarios it's very

difficult to get enough space to do the

training in it's very difficult to get

enough assets available particularly if

they're on operations we can make them

incredibly complicated scenarios and the

AI can then create the the complexity

that they need to train against when it

comes to Aerial combat training new AI

powered adversaries are proving to be a

challenge even for experienced Pilots

definitely puts you through your Paces

it puts you in positions that you've not

traditionally seen before it fights a

different doctrine that we've not

necessarily trained against so I think

it's going to become become the Future

Okay Pi's headset on and put it through

his

PES Pierce Dudley used to fly the F's

most advanced fighter the typhoon he's

about to fly a virtual version of the

same jet in aerial combat against a

System created by developers from

crownfield University it's called the AI

aided tactics engine yeah so if your

opponent is also a human being there's

something at stake for both of you your

lives are at stake but if your opponent

in the real world isn't a human being

does that change things for for you as a

human pilot the AI is learning as and is

adapting to your reactions so therefore

it becomes quite difficult to train

against if you're tra if you're fighting

against other other real world uh air

crew you potentially know the training

that they've been through you know

almost what to expect whereas against

this you just don't know what to expect

with it the AI engine has come out on

top now it's my turn to take on an AI

Top Gun

where did he go I lost

him got to get some altitude out

maneuvered at every turn the AI made

quick work and this novice pilot is just

too

elusive Pilots aren't just learning from

the AI in turn it's learning from them

too it's refining skills which one day

may be used to Pilot drones in real

world situations

a scenario that for many presents a

significant moral and ethical risk yeah

that risk um associated with technology

is a is a a critical area um it's not

new um every technology that's been

deployed in defense has a risk

associated with it and there's a very

wellestablished um moral ethical and

legal framework around how we evaluate

the risk of any new capability alongside

the operational capability and the

imperative to use it but what what

happens if an adversary doesn't play by

the rules if they don't play by the The

Rules of Engagement or they they don't

play by the same ethical Frameworks we

don't assume that our adversaries will

play by the same rules that we do um but

because we understand the technology we

understand how you would go about

deploying autonomy outside of that

framework and when we understand the

technology and approaches they would use

we can understand the techniques we

would use to counter that to defeat that

threat

this is a glimpse of the future it's

called Tempest a joint collaboration

between the UK Italy and

Japan this proposed sixth generation

stealth combat jet will have advanced

radar and weapon systems as well as

flying with its own mini Squadron of

drones The Tempest acting as a flying

command and control center at a distance

while the drones perform missions

semi-autonomously

which begs the question how long will

the human being remain in the

loop I told you it was interesting that

was Mark chesak reporting there now

coming up we will delve deeper into the

issues surrounding AI on the battlefield

we will be speaking to Mikey Kay a

former senior RAF officer in the British

Military and Dr Peter azaro from The

Campaign to stop Killer Robots a

coalition of non governmental

organizations who seek to preemptively

ban lethal autonomous weapons join us

for all that on aiid decoded after this

short break around the world and across

the UK this is BBC News welcome back to

AI decoded now we just had a glimpse of

how defense manufacturers are using AI

powered military training tools to train

the next generation of fighter pilots

but are we in danger of handing too much

autonomy to these relatively untested

systems we're joining us now are Mikey k

a former senior RF military pilot and Dr

Peter azaro from the organization stop

Killer Robots who's also a professor at

the new school in New York where his

research focuses on artificial

intelligence and Robotics thank you so

much both of you for joining us here on

AI decoded and Mikey perhaps if I can

start with you and ask just to give us a

quick rundown of your understanding of

how AI technology is being used on the

battlefield at the

moment uh I think a really good example

is um the a process called the kilch um

which is a a procedural uh approach to

the Precision guided munition process

and what that does basically it assists

with the

identification uh uh and selection of a

Potential Threat and then the approach

looks at What's called the CDE the

collateral damage estimate and it will

look in the vicinity of what the target

is let's say for example two Islamic

State snipers on the second story of a

30 story building and then it will

assess um potentially what components

within a certain radius of that Target

uh could be or could form some form of

collateral whether that is uh

endangering human life or endangering

infrastructure um at the same time

you've got a significant amount of

intelligence that is going into this

process whether that's human

intelligence which is intelligence you

get from informance or whether it's

imagery intelligence or electronic

intelligence so listening tapping into

phones or listening to um radio

frequencies or uh looking at imagery

from predators um then it will go into

weapon selection and it will basically

look at what type of weapon whether it

be a bomb from a platform like fastjet

or whether it's an artillery cell which

is precision guided from a tank

it will look at what type of weapon um

is the most appropriate in order to

minimize that collateral and various

governments will have various different

tolerance policies on that and then it

will also bring into all of that what

the rules of engagement are uh in terms

of being able to prosecute that Target

so um AI can across all of those areas

including the battle damage assessment

which is effectively taking a photograph

after the bombs hit it can it can inform

all of those components of what what is

commonly called in military P to kill J

okay let's go to Dr Peter rosaro and

just to I mean your your organization is

called stop Killer Robots which perhaps

gives people an idea of where you're

coming from in this the film that we

have just seen is about how AI is being

used to train uh Pilots um do you have a

problem with AI being used in that sort

of capacity or do you want AI not to be

used at all when it comes to Battlefield

training and effectiveness

um yeah so I think there's a lot of

valid applications of artificial

intelligence across many different

domains from medicine to healthcare and

in even in the military for Logistics

and training and things like that uh

we're really focused on autonomy in

Weapons Systems and ensuring that humans

are ultimately making the decision to

use lethal force and determining what is

a valid and lawful Target in armed

conflict um and we've been working at

the UN for more than decade trying to

get a treaty there uh but there's of

course many different kinds of

applications and there's been a lot of

debate around exactly how to define

these systems uh as we just heard from

the the video and and the previous

speaker the there's a lot of different

ways to integrate these into the complex

operations of the military which

involves a lot of data a lot of

computers a lot of people making

decisions at different levels of command

and control uh so it's is challenging to

find ways to really regulate how that

happens and ensure that humans remain in

control so Mike I have a question for

you because presumably one of the areas

that the military is trying to achieve

here achieve better is like less

civilian harm right we know from the UN

that the civilian casualty ratio is

about 9 to1 so nine civilians to one uh

combatant um but making Precision

targeting theoretically more possible

doesn't necessarily mean that the impact

on mitigating risks to civilians is more

probable because when it comes to using

artificial intelligence it's about speed

so if both parties have artificially

intelligent uh trained weapons or drones

and they're using this technology speed

is key in the process and so we saw from

for example lavender which is the AI

system used by uh the IDF sources

alleged that actually they increased the

number of civilians that they were

permitted to kill when they were

targeting a potential low-risk militants

to 15 to 20 civilians and they would

drop a bomb on an entire house and

flatten it to try and achieve their

goals so what do you think about AI

making War actually more destructive in

this sense and not helping us when it

comes to reducing civilian

harm well PRI what you're talking about

there is the collateral damage estimate

and the collateral damage estimate

varies from government to government um

I think it's quite obvious if you look

at the tolerance policy of the IDF it's

significantly different uh from

experience of what the tolerance policy

was of say the UK when it was operating

um prision guarded munition strikes in

Iraq or Afghanistan and I was part of

that kill chain process in Baghdad over

three tours so I'm incredibly familiar

with that and I'm incredibly familiar

with the collateral damage estimate and

what the rules of engagement are where

AI can improve this and you're

absolutely right when you talk about

speed speed is of the speed is of the

essence so if you do have a imminent

threat uh to life or to infrastructure

neutralizing that threat uh through

speed and accuracy is where AI can help

improvements so the collateral damage

estimate for example AI will be able to

speed up that assessment of what the

potential collateral damage is and when

we're talking about collateral damage

I'm talking about a school potentially

within the radius of impact of a certain

weapon you know or a bus passing by at a

certain time of the day and that's where

what's called pattern of Life comes in

which is effectively drones overhead of

Target looking at what the pattern of

life is of various components

surrounding that so speed speed is

critical selection of the weapon and

speed at which the weapon can be

selected from The Rules of Engagement

from the collateral damage estimate is

is critical so AI for me um will speed

up and make that process more accurate

but ultimately the very high top level

tier has to be the government's

tolerance policy on what it's willing to

accept in terms of loss of life and at

the moment we talked a lot about human

in the loop so the slowest and therefore

the weakest link here would arguably be

the human in the loop is there then a

risk that the human will be cut out of

the

process well you're talking about speed

and potentially the human could become

the slightly slower component of that

but then what's a critical comp

component to think about is is accuracy

and ethics and AI isn't there yet will

it ever get there um I'm not sure there

there are those that argue it will there

were there were those that argue that

you will always need uh a human in the

loop to give that overlay of what the

ethics are what the rules of engagement

are um the scenarios are very different

you know Prosecuting different targets

in different environments with different

platforms different weapons you know I

gave the example of two Islamic State

snipers on a two on a second flooor of a

30 story building we the human has the

ability to be able to select a weapon um

through technology through machine

learning but also put for example a

steel tip on the top of that weapon

called a penetrator so it can go through

28 floors to the second floor with a

delayed fuse on it and just take out

what's on the second floor without

destroying anything else so it is a

massively massively complex procedure of

which AI will be learning how to do that

but my my advice and certainly the way I

would approach this is is that a human

in the loop right now is imperative in

order to minimize that collateral and

minimize potential mistakes and mistakes

do sadly happen quite a lot yeah and we

haven't talked about the transparency of

that either in the sense that a lot of

this is classified intelligence you know

W defense cont contractors be Peter I've

got a very quick question for you we

running out of time but war games show

that the use of machines are to result

in Conflict escalating quicker than it

would otherwise what are your thoughts

about

that well as you said with the speed

right uh decision making happens in

shorter and shorter time frames the real

difficulty is when uh more and more uh

strategic decision making and engage

decisions to engage a Target or initiate

an operation become automated then you

actually would have humans that would

not be in control of the overall

planning the decisions to go to war the

decisions to escalate a conflict could

all just sort of happen automatically

and we've seen this already with online

trading and Flash crashes that have

occurred in stock markets where

different algorithms will interact with

each other and lead to uh you know a

stock market crash and they have to turn

off the whole system uh we don't want

this happening with autonomous systems

in Warfare um but I think uh to the

question you asked before about

Precision weapons I what we know is this

is Automation and automation increases

speed it also red reduces cost by

reducing the cost of bombing each

individual Target that means you can

afford to bomb a lot more targets so if

you were only killing you know a certain

percentage of civilians with each strike

but now you can strike many many more

things you can actually wind up having a

much larger impact on the civilian

population uh even though you've

increased Precision so it's it's not

automatic that these systems will

improve Warfare and any uh uh impact on

civilians Dr petaro I'm gonna have to

stop you there I'm sure we could talk

about this all evening it's an

absolutely fascinating subject we really

appreciate your time Dr Peter aaro Mikey

K thank you and here in the studio uh

priia thank you so much for joining us

that's it we are out of time AI decoded

will be taking a welld deserved break

for the month of August but don't worry

we will be back in full force at the

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